A Few Thoughts About the Creep Who Heckled Angel Olsen During Her Show at Neumos Last Night

Comments

1
You said something! Bless you!
2
Good guys do not need guns. Guns make everything worse. Good guys just need to say something. Thank you, Sean.
3
Doing the lord's work, Sean. Thank you. Fuck the Capitol Hill businesses that invite this kind of dude to the neighborhood.
4
Some radio broadcaster did something similar last night to Jessica Mendoza, who's doing a fantastic job for ESPN. He has been suspended. He should be fired.
5
@3: how do they "invite" them? assholes in love with their own voices have been at rock shows since I was knee high to a grasshopper.

you sound like chriscitello. the hill wasn't paradise before the bridge and tunnel dipshits showed up.
6
@5: Can we please stop saying "Bridge and Tunnel"? We aren't New York. Bridge, sure. Ferry boat? Maybe. Until Bertha gets done with the Lord's work, there is no tunnel leading to Seattle that I've seen.

That said, you're spot on about the Hill crowd. It's not like pre-Amazon-boom Capitol Hill was without its assholes.
8
Dude might have been at the wrong venue and confused. Tove Lo flashed as expected at Showbox last night.
9
Good job.

More people should speak up. A well-placed "SHUT UP!" especially with backup, usually works. I'm glad you spoke up however gently you did. Others should have backed you up because why not? I'm tired of being the first one to tell someone rude to STFU and then be thanked later. Speak. Up.
10
Thank you Sean, I was standing in front of you and heard this all go down. Kudos.
11
It's not some "how do we keep these people out" riddle that needs solving, these dudes are everywhere. Fuck, you've probably even got a friend, or a friend of a friend, that's only a few shots away from thinking that's funny. Kinda weird he wasn't booted though. House security usually love, and I mean LOVE, marching disruptive assholes to the door.

@4 Seriously, and it was a guy that's never played ball at any level. Dude needs to shut the fuck up and let grown-up commentators do their jobs.
12
"Onstage, Olsen and her bandmates absorbed the insult like professionals, saying nothing back, just conferring for a moment and launching into the next song." Actually, she looked up the other direction from where the voice came and said, "Jesus, is that you?"
13
Thank you!
14
Yes, you should feel total shame for being alive... for being a dude and dealing with shitty dude in dudely ways. Shame on you, you cursed being, and your unfortunate curse of an appendage...
15
Where was security? Why didn't you alert them?
16
Exact same thing happened to me two nights ago during a quietish solo set.
17
Hush, Rachel, a man is trying to make a point. Lulz
18
i was part of a similar interaction Monday at a Neil Young show in Vancouver. Two douche brahs pushed their way to the front of the general admission pit area, spilling beer and hurling profanities all the way. when the lights went down two young girls came out on the stage and began spreading seeds, and then watering them with watering cans (all part of Neil's current tour). The lead brah began heckling the girls, so I turned to him and said "shut the fuck up." he replied, "why" to which i said "because you're a fucking moron". then brah number two replied, "YOU'RE a fucking moron", to which i replied "nice one!". he shrugged his shoulders and said, "it's all I've got, but i could punch you in the eye".

of course, neither one of them punched me in the eye, because they were indeed fucking morons. Canadians. i tell ya.
19
Give the poor bloke the benefit of the doubt, consider that he said "tinnies" even though he didn't and forget it. He had a little too much to drink. Such cringing episodes become great anecdotes for the performers at their backstage and cast parties. All is well.
20
Can this author have been any more puckered up in writing this nonsense?

Anyone who feels violated from one drunk asshole making one banal comment in a crowd needs to grow a thicker skin. That was a rude thing to say, but falls well within the category of hardly-worth-noticing, definitely not qualifying for a lengthy blog entry.

If he merited even a moment's notice, I'm sure Olsen would've mentioned it and found plenty of support. I'd encourage you to read your essay here through the lens of someone who'd ever faced real offense. You can easily see how you've catastrophized this incident into a victorian swoon. I suspect your article brainstorming sessions need to go a bit deeper.

It's a silly article but it's also counterproductive in the context of feminist thinking. It seems to be a millennial penchant to run around in places where people get drunk and shame people for being uncouth. I guess that's the demographic of the new hires.
21
1. Dude hears other dude harass woman
2. Dude realizes, maybe for the first time (?) that all women get harassed on a regular basis
3. Dude wants to respond in violent dude way
4. Dude resists and instead says something to possible harasser, much later on
5. Dude writes article on Slog
6. Slog readers rejoice and thank Dude
22
@6: I would like to but I dunno what else to say. Nothing else encapsulates that particular kind of gormless straight people. Suburbanites? Woo Girls? Once and Future Eastsiders?
23
@17, ha I know, right?! I'm actually rather perturbed that, despite the fact Angel and her band played an INCREDIBLE almost two hour long set, and she is arguably one of the best voices of our generation, the Stranger decided to write about a two-second blip and some later altercation between the writer and dude-bro. Like, this isn't giving Angel anymore agency, you guys have instead turned the attention onto some asshat -- way to perpetuate 'if you say something stupid, you'll be immortalized.' And ranting about some dude's machismo by bragging about your own? Slow clap. Well, I suppose gushing about how someone is one of the best musicians of this generation doesn't get the clicks like ranting about some bro does.
24
Why are Stranger writers so fond of using "hippie" as a pejorative ("long stupid hippie hair under his big, stupid hippie hat")? Back in the day it wasn't unusual for male hippies to get beaten up because their long hair made them "look like girls". In the 60s hippies were the most visible targets for homophobia. I'm certainly not a hippie today. I'm not sure I ever was one. But every time I hear the word used as an insult, I think, "fucking redneck". When I read this article, it kind of detracted from the good and valid points you were making.
25
Agree with @9. An immediate "STFU!" from anyone or preferably multiple people in the crowd is the optimal solution.
26
@25: No, a polite but stern "Please be quiet!" is quite sufficient. Where are your manners Ansel?
27
no, sean, no no no. not all women get harassed on a daily basis and not all women get 'show us your titties!' shouted at them on a daily basis. no no NO. it's SOME women, women of a certain age and body type. it is not universal. once you get fat and old (like me), it doesn't happen. women like me are invisible. please take that into account next time, okay?
28
@6 The Mount Baker tunnel is that big long tunnel you go through to enter Seattle after crossing the I-90 bridge from the Eastside. Bridge and tunnel crowd has always meant people from the East Side coming into Seattle to get drunk and stupid for the night before heading back to suburbia.
29
@6: tunnel, i90. people coming from the eastside.
30
@7: "girls need to."

Thanks for the lesson. The next time a man much larger than me whispers something disgusting in my ear as I walk by I'll be sure to stand up to him. And I won't worry one bit about getting raped, beaten, mugged, or otherwise threatened. I can't believe I never thought of it before! I'm always looking forward to hearing the things men tell me girls need to do. Because I'm a girl, therefore I need to have a man tell me what to do.
31
For a situation like that someone should be standing by with a pie at the ready to put in his face.
32
@6:

I take it then you've never driven I-90 between Seattle and Factoria

@20:

"Show us your titties" is far from banal - ask any female who's ever been harassed by some drunk (or non-drunk) privileged asshole flinging the expression at them, as if said asshole has a right to such a display in the first place. Most people, males even, are fully capable of enjoying the salubrious effect of alcohol without resorting to such behavior, so there's really no reason to let a small minority of assholes off-the-hook when they do. If they can't act like at least semi-adults when under the influence, maybe they should just stop drinking altogether.

Also, Sean is far from being either a "millennial" OR a "new hire".
33
Is it not PC to yell out "Free the Nipple"?
34
Since you don't know what the guy actually said, this post is pointless.
35
@26, when has a polite "Would you kindly lower you voice, my good man" EVER WORKED? You gotta nip it in the bud before it escalates. If politeness were important to drunk dude, he wouldn't have yelled in the first place. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself and others. Even in Seattle.

(I should just tattoo that phrase that on me)

All things considered, this does seem like a verbose, overwrought article. Must be a slow news day.
36
@23 "[T]his isn't giving Angel anymore agency" -- YES. Thank you.
37
I stood right behind this fellow when he first blasted his way into the crowd wearing a great big hat over his long yellow hair..

Although he was most likely wasted and a little too abrasive for this type of music, he was thoroughly enjoying himself. Did I mention about 99 percent of the crowd didn't move a muscle the entire show? Yeah he's probably not from Seattle and couldn't catch the net, but there's no need to banish the guy. No need to personify all your discontent of society into a tightly wound judgy hate-ball and hurl it at a single social pariah just for shouting a few words that nobody thought was funny. What I heard, from exactly 1 person behind him was "crush some titties". Not knowing what the hell and tinny is i, too, resigned to a naive and offended stature. I know people in Seattle are a little sensi but chill out on the hate brother.
Love
38
@9: I'm tired of being the first one to tell someone rude to STFU and then be thanked later.

Word! But hey, someone has to step up.

There was a super annoying drunken idiot yelling super stupid annoying shit behind me at the Sounders game last weekend. Everyone nearby was rolling their eyes and shaking their heads, but no one was going to say anything. By the second half, I'd had enough, so every time he yelled something, I yelled the exact same thing only louder (while my wife gave me the death stare). People started laughing. Then the guy next to me joined in. The drunk guy made a comment about how he was the only real fan there, and then he shut the fuck up.

Some dudes are idiots, but that doesn't mean they won't respond to feedback.
40
@39 - I've gotten in enough altercations with drunk assholes in rock clubs to know not to do it anymore. Based on the physical description of this guy, that's not a fight I'd feel safe picking. But, hey, I guess I could also be a good little girl like you suggest and get in more big guys' faces. I'm sure that'll work out well for me. Thanks for your sage advice, Mr. Man, I don't know what girls like me would do without smart MEN like you to tell us how to behave.

(More seriously, I've been called a lot of things, but "demure" is not one of them.)
41
To all those saying she should have lowered herself to the same dumb shit-tard level of dudes like this: Maybe some women don't feel like lowering themselves to the dumb shit-tard levels of dumb shit-tard men. That's not for us, or our lives. Stop making your dumb shit-tard dicks other people's problem.
42
@40, stirwise, you need it safe before you step up or get involved? You've been in Seattle too long and have absorbed the culture. Maybe try some testosterone supplements.
43
But if you're a woman, or a "good little girl," then no, of course you don't pick a fight. I'm not clear on that, so, sorry. Doesn't stop me from shooting my mouth off, though. So far I haven't been harmed.
44
Issac from modest mouse pretty much cried because the bar crowd was too loud, when they played my club many years ago. Imagine if he was asked to take off his shirt. Women are tough, us men are wimps.
45
@42 - I'm from Chicago and I'm a loudmouthed bitch. The relatively short amount of time I've spent in Seattle hasn't changed that. I don't start shit when I think someone could genuinely hurt me, especially if they're drunk or high. And I really, really don't appreciate guys who go around telling "girls" how they should or should not behave. When men walk out their front doors and fear rape, then maybe I'll take their advice on how to deal with harassment.
46
Really just "I'm from Chicago" was plenty, we'll do the math.

The musician's come-back was an understated laser beam of checkmate wit - so fucking quick and clever. Even chambered it's delightful; if it was off the cuff she's a room control ninja.
47
@stirwise: I've gotten in enough altercations with drunk assholes in rock clubs to know not to do it anymore

Physical altercations? With men? Do tell.

The chances of some guy in a bar actually hitting a woman (that isn't his domestic partner) seem pretty damn small to me, and if it does happen, the mob is going to tear him to pieces. The public altercations I've witnessed between men and women mostly involve the woman going after the guy, talking a good deal of shit while she's at it, and the guy playing defense. All but the most seriously psychopathic men seem to respect this taboo. Of course, if you have a boyfriend with you, there's a good chance he'd get punched on your behalf.

When men walk out their front doors and fear rape

Sure, that or getting roofied or getting punched in a mugging are all common scenarios. But a woman getting punched by a man in a bar for mouthing off to him? Does that ever happen? I'd say it's way less risky for a woman to speak up in situations like this than a man. But hey, I only know what I've seen and read.
48
@47 Jesus Christ, shut up, you dingbat. You basically just told a complete stranger her personal experiences can't possibly be real because you've never seen them replicated yourself, which tops even Nelson's piece for dumbshit maleguyness.
49
@24, I know, right? You'd think someone who gets paid for thinking would demonstrate their ability to do so. "Dude has long hair, must be a commie pot-smoking peacenik, even though every other shred of evidence points to the contrary. But fuck it! I like throwing around the insults and this is a good one! Because everyone hates hippies, dur dur dur drool."
50
@47 - I didn't say physical, but yeah there's been some shoving. Like I said, I've gotten in enough altercations -- verbal ones -- to not want to do it anymore, and risk getting hit. Drunk people (male and female) can be pretty aggressive, if you haven't noticed, and even though I'm sure somebody would put a stop to any actual physical violence, I'd rather avoid it altogether. Or am I supposed to get hit a few times before I'm allowed to say I don't feel safe doing something?

I wasn't taking issue with the idea of women standing up ourselves, I was taking issue with a man telling "girls" we're victimizing ourselves by not standing up to aggressive, drunk assholes in bars. Women, like men, are perfectly capable of deciding when they feel safe doing something, and when they don't. Being told not to worry about it because surely someone will step in if it turns violent is not reassuring nor helpful. Despite all evidence to the contrary, it's really not a man's job to tell womankind how to behave. Knock it the fuck off, we can think for ourselves. I support any person, male or female, who wants to stand up to assholes, but I equally support any person who doesn't feel safe doing so.
51
I follow you but then you went to his level by issuing insults, "hippie hat". You kind of became him. Just give us the facts.
52
@stirwise, 40, 45, 50,etc. To Paraphrase....And I really, really don't appreciate girls who go around telling "guys" how they should or should not behave. Hrmmmmm

Thanks for your sage advice, Mrs. Woman, I don't know what men like me would do without smart WOMEN like you to tell us how to behave.

it's really not a woman's job to tell mankind how to behave. Knock it the fuck off, we can think for ourselves.

If you don't want it happening to you, Then don't do it to us. You'll never get your point across with a attitude like that.
53
I've been a professional musician for a long time (I'm old) and I have HEARD IT ALL. My favorite was "For a bass player, you sure have lickable thighs." I rather enjoy heckling back at hecklers, I'll even stop a song and point them out and harangue them until their friends drag them slinking away. I'm happy to say there's not really "one in every crowd" anymore (I guess I've moved up from the bowling alley lounge circuit), although sometimes, I kinda miss it. Please, somebody, yell at me to show them my tits! It'll bring back :::sniff::: the good ole days...
54

I think if the guy said "show us your titties" or made any sort of inane, sexist or even not-sexist crack designed at humiliating the performer (which is what a heckling is all about), the performer needs to demolish the hecker's aggression and attention seeking by dissing them back. Like, maybe, "Really dude? Seriously, little boy-man? You know this is Seattle, right? You're aware of the fact that this isn't 1961 and Mad Men's just a tv show?"

Or something much clever-er. Letting the comment go un-addressed so it can make everyone in the room uncomfortable is letting the asshole win. Single the dude out and humiliate him back. The crowd is already on the performer's side, so should it escalate from there, dude will be tossed out and hopefully pummeled.
55

And yes. Women, particularly young women, deal with cracks like this every day, no exaggeration, just in walking down the fucking street. Don't believe us? You haven't been a young female. This happened to be on a near daily basis when I was young (18-late 20's) and living in Boston. It was impossible to escape the conclusion that as far as guys are concerned, women are always on male territory. This seemed/seems to be how men view(ed) public spaces, otherwise, why did/does this happen so often?

I'm not even talking that the bile they'd spew would be when I or any of my young female friends walked in front of a construction site/street paving project/fire department building - we KNEW it was guaranteed then. I'm talking even individual men walking on their own would say the most demeaning, degrading, offensive shit right to my 18 year old face, sometimes under their breath - not loud enough for other people to hear, only loud enough for me to hear, which made it 12 times creepier.

I worked at a tiny convenience store in Copley Square back then, as a cashier. I'm 19 and 20 years old and insecure and self conscious and shy as hell, and I'm standing behind a counter ringing up orders, and guys - adult men - would say shit to me even THEN, right out loud, when I'm at WORK, to my face. I am the age of their daughters and for some of them, even their granddaughters. But ALL ages guys did this - certainly guys around my age did. It was constantly unnerving and disturbing and humiliating and a downer. Certainly for someone as insecure and shy as I was, it made very day feel like a battle. Even if it didn't happen that day or that week, you were braced for it.

Here's a serious question: Do guys have any sort of equivalent to this? That only females that are strangers to them do to them? That they have to learn to expect on a daily or nearly basis when simply walking down the street to go to work or to class?

56
@52:

If you HONESTLY think female-on-male harassment is on anywhere near an equal level to what many, if not most women experience on a daily basis; if you HONESTLY think the solution to this is "if women just stopped harassing men, men would stop harassing women"; if you HONESTLY think women should have less right to "tell mankind (which, last I checked includes both men AND women) how to behave", but see no problem with men telling mankind how to behave; if you HONESTLY think paraphrasing the unambiguously clear statements of women to men to "STOP HARASSING US" is justification for your petulant, condescending "I know you are, but what am I?" outburst - then I can only conclude sir, that you are a complete and utter douche-bucket and should probably be neutered before you have a chance to pass on your genes to another generation whom you will no doubt raise to perpetuate your misogyny.
57
This drives me crazy about the NW. If a majority of people in the room found this guy's behavior offensive, and even a few recognized it as misogynistic and sexual harassment, why didnt anyone tell the guy to get out?! The northwest is full of men who call themselves feminists yet are complicity SILENT when this kind of verbal assault hapoens right in front of them. I guarantee that guy would stop his behaviour after being thrown out of a few shows. For the record, I do not expect men to come to my rescue in these situations. I am comfortable telling a guy like that to get out, but women have every reason to fear being assaulted for doing so. I'd like to hear from the guys that were there and found this offensive, WHY didn't you do anything? Your silence means that dude is gonna kerp harassing women, he thinks you were all thinking, "yeah! I wanna see her titties too but I dont have the balls to say it like that guy does!"