It's hard for me to believe anyone doesn't know that oil and latex don't mix.

@1,
Agreed, though Dan has a very valid point that sex ed is terrible in this country.

Almost all my own early sex ed came from looking at porn.

@1 and the lw, and everyone else? Are you kidding? I deal with people who don't know where the clitoris is or why that should matter. There's people out there--supposedly intelligent, educated people making major policy decisions--who think that having an IUD is having an abortion.
Our level of ignorance about sex and all things related to it is appalling. And it's not just from sex ed classes.
There's a whole lot of people who prefer anything "natural" to anything synthetic, and coconut oil is the new It Essence. It makes perfect sense to think that many people aren't remembering or were never made sufficiently aware that oil and latex should never mix. For my part, i remember being told that mineral oil or vaseline (petroleum jelly) shouldn't be used with a condom. But I can easily imagine someone who didn't hear the specific phrase, "don't use coconut oil with a condom" not realizing that that would have the same effect as using vaseline with a condom.
It never hurts to remind people of things you want them to know.

I couldn't tell the genders of the people in this letter but something about the LW reads female to me, so my comment is if they are MFF. Most straight men I know don't know anything about lube. Period. Let alone that there are differences in lube and that some of them shouldn't be mixed with latex. I think that plenty of the women I know probably never heard that either. We took sex ed in the 6th grade - and I doubt it had that info. Most American people probably don't spend time researching sex topics. They just grab something off the shelves. Also, many couples don't use condoms, but may use lube, so when they play with strangers (and use condoms, hopefully) it might not occur to them that they need to change up their lube.

Sage advice from Dan. The only thing I would add is that there are latex alternatives (and recall, kids, that some folks have legit latex allergies). The female (AKA, trashcan-liner) condom comes in nitrile form, which is oil-compatible. And there are non-latex male condom forms, as well.

Well, I didn't know about the oil and latex problem either. We do use condoms and I just buy the Durex brand lube in the supermarket, so it's never been something I've thought about. Many years of monogamy means (for us anyway) that this stuff doesn't come up for review very often!
Wouldn't coconut oil leave greasy stains on your sheets? Yuck!

I agree, SWING, the next time something like this happens, politely let them know that you don't think it's safe and why. Given how lousy sex education is in the U.S., there probably are too many people who don't know that oil and latex don't mix.

So when the guy said he used the free kind, you should have said something like, "Are you aware that oils and oil-based lubricants are very bad for condoms? I'll bring over my lube. It's a really good silicon-based (or water-based) type that's good for latex." That would give you a better gauge on how into safe sex he is.

I think it's possible that people might know that Vaseline rots condoms, but not that coconut oil would do the same thing. That was pretty much my level of understanding in my 20s.

It might seem incredible here in Seattle that people wouldn't know that oil + latex = trashed condom. But Dan is totally right. There are huge swaths of this country that still teach abstinence-only sex ed. Completely useless. There are lots and lots of people out there who don't know squat about condom use. Not because they're dumb or careless, but because they have not received even a rudimentary education. Sad, but true.

Or just bring your own? Yeesh.

Glad to see sense prevailing.

Don't ever assume because you know something that everyone does. You'd be shocked. Ask a doctor some time about patient ignorance. Only taking the pill on days when one has sex. Coffee in a baby's bottle. Spraying asthma inhalers on their chest. They all have wild stories.

If ever there was a situation where the godawful phrase "Check your privilege" was appropriate, it's when someone like the LW assumes everyone had access to the same education and information that (s)he did.

Who uses coconut-based lube and not just straight-up coconut oil?

Or water-based lube?

Another red flag for me would be the fact that they had enough money to buy a swing, but couldn't part with a few bucks to buy condoms!

LW could have brought the correct lube and good quality condoms to the party, given the couple a bit of education, and had a fun time. Problem solved.

PSA #1: The condoms you find for free in a bucket near the entrance to the club are shitty condoms. Life's too short to use shitty quality condoms. Spend a few bucks on the better condoms at the drugstore, or order them online if you're a shy teenager who's too embarrassed to inspect condom packages in the aisle at Walgreen's.

PSA #2: When using condoms, lube is necessary. Silicone lube is best because it doesn't feel cold when you apply it to a sensitive orifice, and more importantly it lasts a long time without getting sticky. But keep a towel handy to wipe your hands off, because it will spread onto everything and it doesn't wash off as easily as water-based lube.

So the current wisdom is that all oil based lubes and latex don't mix. However, the chemical makeup of petroleum based oil lubes such as Vaseline vs. a plant based lube are SO radically different that I wonder if in fact an oil such as coconut has the same degrading effects on latex. Is there any actual science on this, or are we all ASSUMING that both petroleum and plant-based oils have the same effect?

This is important, because we know that Vaseline doesn't belong in human bodily orifices, period. Yet, we also know that natural plant-based lignons like coconut oil are highly nutritious and otherwise beneficial to human mucosa. So I question whether plant-based oils are as destructive to latex--a natural substance--as are petroleum-based oils--which are highly industrially processed.

Who can link us to the actual SCIENCE of this?

If not, are we ASSUMING that ALL 'oils' are equal in that they ALL have a degrading, destructive effect on latex?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Just because mineral-based oils are destructive to latex doesn't necessarily mean plant-based oils are.

Someone prove me wrong with actual, verifiable science, please.

Thanks.

Secretagent @4: The letter read as all gay men to me. I don't think condoms and lube would be so high on a hetero person's list of questions to ask.

Hi @3 nocutename, are *you* kidding? You "deal with people who don't know where the clit is"?

According to Google maps it's in western Romania and even Google doesn't have directions from the USA to Clit. And there are *four* different Clits some of which are *miles* from each other.

So, ya know, don't make fun of us. Clit is hard to find. :-)

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Clit

This Clit even has a postcode:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Clit+7…

But I guess we live in a patriarchal world, there are way more Dicks in Google than Clits.

THE POINT is two hot dummies with a swing, shitty condoms and funky oil seem to have no idea of how to play safely. What other risks would he be taking? Fuck no. Wanna swing with people who know what they're doing? Put up an ad!

I’m with danelaw. If you have to educate them about condoms and lube, what else will you have to educate them about? (Consent?) Will it be fun? Will they be on meth?

If it doesn’t feel right, don’t.

I'm in my thirties and I didn't know anything at all about lube and condoms not 'mixing' until this letter. Yes, I fit very squarely in Dan's "got together young, monogamous" category, so maybe that's why. I did *not* get abstinence-only education in school, yet there was no mention of not mixing oil-based lubes (I don't think we discussed lube at all, much less its ingredients) with latex condoms. So I agree with Dan that this person missed an opportunity to make the world a better place by educating this couple.

Here are a couple good links...the skinny seems to be, "There is anecdotal evidence that coconut oil won’t degrade condoms, but take this with a grain of salt. As we like to say, the plural of anecdote isn’t data." And also, "Coconut oil, whether it’s refined or not, will stain your bedding or clothing. It’s not a water soluble lubricant like Simply Slick and will not clean up easily.
http://learn.condomdepot.com/2014/06/05/…
http://www.simplyslick.com/blog/?p=117

And also..."there’s still a pretty big downfall to oil-based lubes, like coconut oil. The problem is that they clog pores easily. If you have problems with acne, you may be asking for an outbreak in an uncomfortable place, especially with all of the sweat and bacteria involved during sex.

Those with vaginas may also find themselves at risk for yeast infections or bacterial vaginosis, so if you’re sensitive to either one, coconut oil may not be your best choice.

#19, thank you! I do not understand all the comments of "bring your own and have fun". This couple seems to be a huge STD risk, no fucking way would I play with them. Inform them of the issue/risk, yes... Play with them, NOPE! And the LW states that they run at first sign of red flag, for their own safety.

@23, you should probably check more than one source (that isnt trying to sell lube)... coconut oil seems to actually be good at helping people with yeast infection and bacterial vaginosis issues, if you look a little more into the topic.

For the stain the sheets crowd, get a sex blanket and some hand towels, it isn't that difficult.Silicone lube would be much worse on sheets.
BTW you can buy a big tub of pure organic coconut oil at Costco, and use it for cooking as well (obviously separate out amount for lube in different container). During non summer months it does need to be warmed up a bit, which can be a tad annoying in the moment.

@16 - plenty of hetero couples use lube! It's been a must for me for years, and most of my friends use it as well.

However, I had no idea that oil-based lube and latex condoms were a no-go, and I'm a young, well-educated woman in a progressive city. Perhaps part of the reason is because I've spent most of my 20s in one long-term, monogamous relationship or another, where condom use wasn't an issue, but I've been to Babeland, read Savage Love, and still somehow managed to miss this factoid until now. It's not as much of a given as you'd think!

Alison@26 analysis, approval, assessment, evaluation, experiment, inquiry, inspection, investigation...

Let's see if the italicization goes away.

Oh, and also, sex education is bad in many parts of the US, and it's also pretty horrible in other countries, depending on the country. I never really got sex education - I lived in Korea when I was in middle school, which is a pretty prudish country about sex (the only sex ed I remember in school was being taught about menstruation and using tampons/pads; at least my brother was given a pamphlet that explained erections and ejaculation), and by the time I entered high school in the US, all of the safe sex parts of class had already been completed. I didn't even know what lube was until I was in college, or why lotion was associated with sexy times. I certainly wouldn't have known that oil and condoms don't mix.

Dammit, Donny!

PSA: Close your tags, everyone.

Anyway, my thought was the same as #19 and 20. It's like that anecdote about the band (which used a lot of pyrotechnics set up by the venue) having the note in the contract about a bowl of M&M's with all the brown ones removed--and the band would leave if they could find a brown M&M.

Because someone who didn't notice that part of the deal might have missed some of the others, and some of the others were serious safety issues.

@29 Sorry, slipped up on that one.

Eudaemonic @29: love that comparison.
(A little more detail: http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/vanh…)

It's not weird not to know about the problems of mixing oil and latex if you aren't particularly interested in the technology of sex, if you don't have sex with a lot of people and you have an ordinary sex life. A partner can educate you, you learn, you keep going. No biggie. (If you're The Beatles playing in a hockey rink and an amp is in the wrong place, you move the amp. No biggie. The show goes on.)

If you're attempting varsity-level sex - with lots of people, with strangers, in groups, with equipment - then you need to be more knowledgeable. (If you are Van Halen and you have equipment that weighs as much as a 747 and the third-tier stadium you're playing in hasn't reinforced the floor... um yeah, that's a biggie. No show and possibly loss of life.)

@29: good analogy.

If you don't get a good feeling about having sex with someone it's wise to listen to your instincts. I don't think that's overthinking, unless you're talking yourself out of things you DO want to do for reasons that aren't that compelling. Dan's right that most people don't get good sex ed and that LW missed an opportunity to educate, but that's not a role everyone is comfortable adopting or that makes sense in every context. Not everyone appreciates it, for one thing.

@19 & @20 - LOL!

But I am not too proud to admit I DIDN'T KNOW THIS EITHER! My last sex ed class was in 1983 and I was probably high anyway. I'm one those people who recently emerged from a LTR and very, very rarely used lube even when not in an LTR (only used it for anal). But I'm getting older and have friends who talk about how great coconut oil is, so it was probably only a matter of time before I did this exact dumb thing. Glad I saw this column!

I'm with the LW. Anyone who doesn't already know about the risk of any kind of oils with latex certainly doesn't know the more subtle issues of proper condom use, or other safer sex protocols. I would probably not have played, but I would have tried to educate. I have found that most people do not want to play after being educated, so I wouldn't expect to play. If I were only topping, where I control the condom and the lube, I might have played. If I were expecting to bottom, no way would I have played.

The idea that I have some form of entitlement that affords me knowledge of safer sex practices is ludicrous. Anyone with a library card or a Goggle machine has more than adequate access to this information. The only question is whether one is willing to spend the time to learn how to be safe.

There are so many people who think that any natural product must be good and safe. For these people, I recommend that they try hemlock. It's totally natural.

My mother became pregnant at age 20 and said she honestly didn't know that sex led to pregnancy (she was a virgin, living away from home for the first time, had a mother who married at age 12, during a time when you couldn't say the word "pregnant" on television, and she honestly thought you had to be married to have a baby).

Some people just don't know stuff.

Oh, my god, with the coconuts! It's invaded every aspect of our lives. It's in everything now. It is the most irritating fad. It's just saturated fats, not a panacea. It will not cure disease, it will not make your unhealthy foods healthy. And it should not be shoved up your junk. Enough with the coconuts! (From a person for whom coconuts cause migraines).

@15 you have very strong statements about what is known, that do not seem based on anything but popular conjecture. Squished up coconut does not belong in a human hole any more than vaseline does. We did not evolve as primates regularly sticking plant oils up our butts. You do not know jack about the relative safety of these materials, you just think that you do based on the naturalistic fallacy that anything that once was a plant is good for me, but SURPRISE petroleum was once a plant as well.

I'm a middle-aged woman who hooked up with my husband in that lovely period after birth control pills became available but before AIDS showed up, so condoms have not been a major part of my love life. My sex education was solely from Penthouse letters, but even I know you don't mix petroleum-based products and latex, and have watched latex gloves slowly disintegrate when used with petroleum-based oils.

Not during sex, though. ;)

On very rare occasions, we play with others, and I use much the same process as the LW did: if they are ignorant of what I consider to be basic information about safer sex techniques, I write them off immediately. I may attempt to provide avenues for them to educate themselves, but anyone who hasn't taken the time to learn basic information on how to keep themselves safe is a risk for me. Since my sex life with my husband is pretty damn incredible and anything else is decorations on the icing on the cake, it's just not worth it to me.

By the way, we have found at least one lube which stained sheets. It's a mystery to me why a company making such a product wouldn't figure out it's not exactly a selling point and test for it.

Dan is right on missing a great opportunity to educate. I wouldn't have gone with them anyway, but a parting protip would probably not have been amiss. And in the spirit of that I've got a few things to say.

PROTIP: DON'T USE COCONUT OIL.

Not only will it degrade condoms but it also degrades silicone, so, like all oils, it is not toy safe.

More importantly, like ALL OILS, it traps bacteria against the skin and therefore increases chances of infection, so it is not safe for vaginal use. Many oils also cause other problems, for example vaseline causes cancer and raises estrogen in men, but coconut oil has not been tested because it is a new fad and therefore the data is not in.

If you want a good lube your best bet is to just break down and go to a specialty store, as things you can get in pharmacies tend to be lower quality.

One of my earliest partners was allergic to latex, and so turned me on to polyurethane condoms. They cost more but are thinner, feel more natural, and are less likely to break. They're also safe around oil based lubes- and sweet-smelling butter-tasting all-natural coconut oil is the best there is.

Christi S, # 36, you can use coconut oil to get chewing/ bubble gum out of hair or fabric, because chewing gum is mostly latex. No, really. Ask your favorite reference librarian; s/he's pretty bored with only telling people what the time is. (Weirdly, the technology that keeps flavor in gum so it doesn't crap out after five seconds like a Fruit-Stripes-palooza allegedly started out in vaginal lubes, but that's neither here nor there.)

LW, do what you must, once the gonads make their minds up, it's hard to stop the stampede, but... being invested enough in sex that you have a sex swing, but not enough to know that oil and latex don't mix, that's like seeing someone drive a Lamborghini and not adjust their mirrors properly. Use proper equipment, insist they browse Ohjoysextoy or something if they don't have the attention span for Savage Love, and everybody wash and pee before and afterward, and maybe look in to prophylactic anti-viral measures. Trust your gut, and give your brain veto. Maybe watch how this couple treats other partners. (As for education, once, in 1997, I came thiiiiis close to sleeping with a fellow, until that very phone call where he said that he did not wear condoms, because he insisted that any partners go to donate blood with him, so they were tested for AIDS, and all other venereal diseases were visually obvious. When I gasped and told him that this wasn't true, I was pretty much patted on the head and told that he, as an EMT, was a medical professional and I was a dupe of the sex-negative establishment...)

People, please no hate, but I'm a mid-40s woman with more partners than I'm proud of before connecting with my monogamous partner 17 years ago. I had no idea that certain lubes and certain condoms don't mix, but then again, I've basically never used lube and regrettably used way fewer condoms than I should have...

@40: "Many oils also cause other problems, for example vaseline causes cancer and raises estrogen in men, but coconut oil has not been tested because it is a new fad and therefore the data is not in."

Are you going to cite some odd holistic healing cite to prove the former?

Cite, site, yeesh.

Coconut oil is an awesome lube. It works really well, one only needs a little, makes everything taste yummy. I don't mix oil and latex because I don't currently use condoms and I also wouldn't take that chance...and I also wouldn't risk it with an expensive sex toy. I don't know what the science actually says but I find it to be quite good for my vag--in fact if I'm having some kind of issue down there the first thing I do is put a lil coconut oil on there and that takes care of it. So I wouldn't say that it's not safe for vaginal use--I would say that many, many people use it and love it and have no problems, and that your mileage may vary.

And if sheet stains are a concern--throw down a towel. I don't normally have sex on bare sheets anyway because I don't want to have to lie down in a juicy puddle when I'm finished.