SL Letter of the Day: The Red Sweater Code

Comments

Amen to the bonus pro tip: writer groups are nearly worthless and tend to attract crazy people. He should skip the next meeting.

auntie jim on October 28, 2015 at 1:23 PM

You may want to read up on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erotomania

keeponthesunnyside on October 28, 2015 at 1:28 PM

As I recall, this got pretty juicy in the original publishing's comments section and even a follow-up LOTD written by the alleged crazy person putting an entirely different spin and perspective on things.

mikethehammer on October 28, 2015 at 1:40 PM

This reads like the basis for a new fall CW sitcom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHoopcEz…

brandon on October 28, 2015 at 1:41 PM

What may work for you as a writer may not work for others. I know plenty of people who thrive in writers groups. Dan, why would you be so judgement free on every conceivable sexual kink (within the law, of course) and so judgmental on something as innocuous as a writers group?

I Got Nuthin' on October 28, 2015 at 1:48 PM

Writing groups are far from useless. Peer editing is hugely important in scientific fields, and it can lead to some good revisions in all fields. As long as you think for yourself about which of your peers' ideas you want to use and which you don't, writing groups can be very helpful.

Jwdaug on October 28, 2015 at 1:50 PM

Bullshit advice this time, and really out of character for Mr. Savage... If it helps the guy write, let him go to a writing group.

By the same token, you don't need a group to fuck, right?

xizar on October 28, 2015 at 1:59 PM

@7

100% correct. No one needs a group to fuck.

seatackled on October 28, 2015 at 2:22 PM

For two years in college, I was the object of someone's obsession, and was subjected to a never ending stream of bizarre accusations not unlike those in this letter. People whose affections turn to obsession start to analyze every word you say and everything you do (or don't do). Following that experience, my advice is drop out of the group and avoid Red Sweater Guy, and tell any friends in that group why you're leaving.

SublimeAfterglow on October 28, 2015 at 2:29 PM

I always wanted an update to this. I agree LW needs to tell his friends, tell the person in charge, if there is one, and look for a new group. This type of thinking never leads to a good place.

msanonymous on October 28, 2015 at 2:50 PM

For those who write but feel the need to join writing groups for critiques, while also needing to avoid crazy co-writing group members, there's an alternative in enlisting a group of beta-readers. A number of writers I know have used that technique to their satisfaction, and it eliminates the threat of crazies coming after you outside the group time.

Calpete on October 28, 2015 at 2:59 PM

@10,

Not sure if this is exactly what you're after, but check this out

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…

What I was referring to in my comment @3 there and one of the reasons I always take so many of these letters with a rather sizable grain of sale.

mikethehammer on October 28, 2015 at 3:30 PM

Dan Savage is a sex advice columnist, not a writing advice columnist. He's allowed to give writers terrible professional advice.

RDM on October 28, 2015 at 3:37 PM

*salt, obviously. Though salesmanship works too.

mikethehammer on October 28, 2015 at 3:48 PM

(and in going back and re-reading the follow-up from the gay guy referenced in my link, I gotta say he does still seem pretty nuts, perhaps even more so than as portrayed by the LW here. But it's still real neat to get another perspective and different context.)

mikethehammer on October 28, 2015 at 3:54 PM

@7, @8, I am reminded of a scene in the movie "Sleepers" where Diane Keaton's boyfriend asks her if she wants to have sex. She replies they can't because there are not enough people at the party.

collingswood on October 28, 2015 at 3:57 PM

I've known straight men into nice shoes and Art, I didn't realize they were the exception. If I recall, many famous Artists have been straight males, so LW, how about you cut the straightmalephobia.
Or is that straightmaleism.

LavaGirl on October 28, 2015 at 4:05 PM

One thing that his writing group didn't address is how to write in paragraphs.

sperifera on October 28, 2015 at 4:15 PM

PID would be wise to file an incident report with some form of campus authority but not, necessarily the campus security. This is the type of situation that could become more serious for both himself or others down the line.

bertha on October 28, 2015 at 4:20 PM

Harlan Ellison once famously asked a group of aspiring writers, "Who here wants to be a writer?" Everyone raised their hands. He said, "Then why in the hell aren't you home writing?" and left.

Then again, Harlan Ellison was a total douche.

Geni on October 28, 2015 at 4:45 PM

@14 ABC. A always, B be, C closing. Always be closing. Always. Be. Closing.

Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In on October 28, 2015 at 6:16 PM

Ummmm. Jeffrey Dahmer ate your friend? Do tell.

GiddyupAsaurus on October 28, 2015 at 6:28 PM

@3: " even a follow-up LOTD written by the alleged crazy person putting an entirely different spin and perspective on things."

But outing him as a complete sociopath.

undead ayn rand on October 28, 2015 at 6:41 PM

@22 Yeah, Dan, instead of recycling old letters and teasing us with an off-hand comment about Dahmer eating your friend, tell the whole story.

PlaidWoman on October 28, 2015 at 6:52 PM

The story:

Dan knew a guy named Tony. Their relationship was personal and fairly boring. There's nothing to tell.

Tony met a guy named Jeffrey, who killed and ate him. That part of the story is so interesting it's a matter of public record. Try Wikipedia.

Alison Cummins on October 28, 2015 at 8:55 PM

And if Infatuated Guy uses the word "harassment", LW should run run run. That is the magic word threatening some very bad things. Block his phone, email etc etc.

caution&daring on October 28, 2015 at 8:56 PM

I think if you wanna hang out with people with similar interest that is probably all good you should not let some loser box you out.

fetish on October 28, 2015 at 11:12 PM

@22, @24

What the fuck is wrong with you two?

seatackled on October 28, 2015 at 11:36 PM

@24 - He's busy in New Zealand (or at least was this week.. he might be back now, but whatever). We're getting an old letter because he's not able to produce new content of any kind, let alone tell you stories of his brutally murdered friend.

Xilonen03 on October 29, 2015 at 12:51 AM

Hope you enjoy your visit to NZ , Dan.
Come Sunday we are going to thump them in the final of the Rugby World Cup, maybe, so having you there might ease their pain.

LavaGirl on October 29, 2015 at 1:23 AM

Jeffrey Dahmer ... ate a friend of mine.
Jeffrey Dahmer ... murdered a friend of mine.

Both statements are factually correct. Unfortunately, the first one sounds off-hand, flippant, at least to me. I think it would do more justice to his friend to have used the second statement, especially if he didn't want to expand on the topic.

But there is a story there, a terrible one, and if Dan has not told it and no one else has, it may be worth telling.

I see I was guilty of being flippant myself in my comment @24 and I'm sorry.

PlaidWoman on October 29, 2015 at 1:27 AM

PlaidWoman, what story do you think Dan has to tell that hasn't already been told?

Alison Cummins on October 29, 2015 at 2:24 AM

Enough you guys. Enough.

LavaGirl on October 29, 2015 at 3:13 AM

Dan is a gifted storyteller. I've heard some of his stories, for example, about his mother's death. It is so much more than "Mom got very sick and died". I don't know if Dan has told the story of his friend, but it is surely more than being Dahmer's victim.

PlaidWoman on October 29, 2015 at 3:20 AM

@PlaidWoman

If you like that much to revel on atrocity happening to others, for the sake of it being "a good story that hasn't been told", there are a world of websites out there who are made to cater for your morbid curiosity. Why don't you go and have a look at them instead of stalking Dan ?

I find your posts on this thread totally self-centered and insensitive. Do tell what happened in your life to behave as a such jerk. It's a story that hasn't been told yet ! Come on, spill the beans !

sissoucat on October 29, 2015 at 4:03 AM

I agree with Dan's advice except that related to writing groups. I am a member of one and it has improved ny writing, taught me rules about tagging (and the dreaded "ly") in fiction, kept me on track to push 5,000 words through every two weeks, and provided some encouragement to some one who has felt very insecure

DarkHorseRising on October 29, 2015 at 5:26 AM

@34. Agreed. I heard h us beautiful story about his mom recently on This American Life. I seriously shed tears.

DarkHorseRising on October 29, 2015 at 5:28 AM

Oooh. I missed all the controversy.

DarkHorseRising on October 29, 2015 at 5:30 AM

PlaidWoman,

But what exactly is the terrible story that you think might not have been told already?

The terrible story of Tony Hughes’ biography? (What makes you think his life was so terrible?) Do you imagine that Dan is privy to details of Tony Hughes’ terrible death that are not available to everyone with internet access?

Tony was murdered in Milwaukee in 1991. In that year Dan was working in a video store in Madison, 80 miles away. They probably went to the same bars.

Actually, if he thinks his friendship with Tony Hughes is any of your business Dan has probably put it in one of his books. Get out your credit card and start reading!

Alison Cummins on October 29, 2015 at 7:46 AM

I'm totally feeling for PID's writing buddy, as I am in a very similar situation. It seems Jennifer Aniston is completely infatuated with me, and is sending me secret signals all the time! Yesterday, I saw her on TV wearing blue jeans, and I was wearing blue jeans too! Whoa! Now I suppose I'm going to have to deal with paparazzi and all that shit?

DonnyKlicious on October 29, 2015 at 10:56 AM

@40 - yes you will. But first you have to move to her city and follow her around all the time, especially at night. You know - to keep her safe from all those weirdos out there.

Lance Thrustwell on October 29, 2015 at 11:21 AM

@41 - I resemble that remark!

DonnyKlicious on October 29, 2015 at 11:29 AM

Must be close to Halloween, there's batshit everywhere.

Chase on October 29, 2015 at 11:39 AM

Perhaps this group of people like to write and to socialise?

BiDanFan on October 29, 2015 at 12:36 PM

Leaving the group should be a last resort. As a victim of stalking by someone in a social club I was in, I can relate to PID. Definitely tell the group organizer about the incident. While some leaders will refuse to get involved, others will help those who feel harassed. Also, tell others in the group, because they may have had a similar experience. If more than one person complains about someone, it ups the odds that the stalker will be asked to leave the group. Unfortunately, during my incident, my group leader (while sympathetic) didn't take action against my stalker. I did have to refrain from some group activities for awhile, and fortunately, the stalker lost interest and moved on.

DesertBlue on October 29, 2015 at 2:30 PM

@45: "Leaving the group should be a last resort"

Are you kidding? That guy is absolute rat poison and he needs to leave ASAP so the guy can lose interest, which may STILL not work.

undead ayn rand on October 29, 2015 at 8:01 PM

@2, I was thinking the same thing. Glad to know I'm not the only one who knows what erotomania is.

DanielleinDC on October 30, 2015 at 3:50 AM

Dan didn't say anything "judgmental" about writing groups. He just said a writer doesn't need one, and he's right. Here's judgmental: a Penn/Faulkner winner once told me, "I don't think I've ever met a writer of anything very interesting who liked to hang out and talk about what they're writing. I can't imagine doing that."

alexandro on October 30, 2015 at 11:40 AM

@48 pretty sure i've seen Palahniak (sic) write about his times in writers groups, pre-fame. YMMV with him, but he's nothing if not interesting and successful.

fetish on November 2, 2015 at 5:05 PM

SL Letter of the Day: The Red Sweater Code

Comments

Please wait...

Add a comment

Preview

Editors' Picks

SPD’s Million-Dollar Parking Space

Washington's Backlogged Crime Lab Braces for Influx of Low-Level Drug Cases from Seattle

The Audition

The Urban Archipelago

I Had Never Touched a Gun Before the Las Vegas Massacre. Then I Bought One.

City Attorney’s Focus on “High Utilizers” Helps No One

Support The Stranger

Comments

Please wait...

Add a comment

Preview

Editors' Picks

Just Can't Get Enough?

Sign up for our newsletter for news recaps, updates, and more!