"Western Muslims would soon be forced to 'either apostatize … or they [migrate] to the Islamic State, and thereby escape persecution from the crusader governments and citizens.'"

I'd like to go on the record stating that I support anything that causes apostatizing among Muslims... Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc, all at the same time. Hell, Buddhists too. Oh, and also people that talk about yoga like it's a religion.

American'ts.

Sure has been fun having these dumbfuck RepubliKKKans accomplish all of the terrorists' goals for them over the last 15 years.

Can he be impeached for inviting violence?

Anyway, I'm sure the intern who posted that will be reprimanded.

@3
Inciting, not inviting.

Our first civil war divided neatly, geographically. We're as civilly divided now as then, but the demarcation is less geographic. Our current disagreements divide the ignorant and the not, and we are, as often as not, neighbors. Our next civil war will resemble Rwanda--except our Hutus are much more significantly armed. Beats death by cleaver, I expect.

@5, the git is doing both! So wish there was a time machine, so these bigots can all go back to the Inquisition.

@7
Yeah, I realized that when I went to correct myself. But inciting seems to have a more legalistic meaning. One is just being an asshole, which isn't impeachable. The other is breaking the law.

Terrorists are like the GOP, they want Americans to live in Fear and are funded primarily from fossil fuel interests

Why is there never a reasonable middle ground, such as "most Muslim refugees are going to be normal people, but we're bound to get some Islamist nutjobs too since groups in the same country the refugees are coming from they've told us they'll try as much. How do we keep an eye out fairly?"

England and France have already been dealing with conservative Muslim communities clashing with socially liberal cultural norms, and a lot of those communities aren't even Islamist. There are some bad kinds of Islam that are bad for thought, bad for women, and generally bad for society.

They exist right now in the Middle Eastern countries we love to hate for practicing those very same kinds of Islam through their laws!

Reasonable Muslims have just as much distaste for assbackwards conservative Islam as any other spectrum of faith. Bad kinds of Islam exist and we all ought to be talking about it, not pussywashing any remote criticism as in the same category as "the Muslim race"-type knuckledragger mumblings. It's not just you vs everyone else in one group including this idiot.

@3, not he can't, and @4, no, he won't.

@10, where are those "reasonable Muslims"?

How anyone people need to die?

Also, Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?

How do I shot web?
Fucking magnets, how do they work?

Islam did not directly contribute to European culture. Some Europeans learned from Islamic mathematicians, etc., but that was at least 700 years ago, and the Islamic caliphate at that time was governed by sultans who saw the advantages of communicating with Europeans. That is definitely no longer the case.

Talking about the Middle Ages in reference to Islam is about as logical as talking about the Middle Ages in reference to modern European countries.

@16

Judging by your comment here, I take it that your question @12 is meant to convey your belief that there's no such thing as a "reasonable Muslim"?

@16 Um, ah, hmmm, I'm not sure where to begin....Zero perhaps. Nah that likely just went over your head.

@16,
Well if you've ever studied algebra, that was invented and named after a muslim.

And you don't know enough people if you don't know any reasonable muslims. I have a friend named Trad who is very nice. Some of my soccer buddies are muslim.

I don't mean to shame you, but saying that there are "no moderate muslims" shoes a narrow group of aquantences and big lack of imagination. Meet some people!

Conservative radical extremist jihadist muslims really suck.

Muslims who don't like dogs suck - check out the Serpentine in London sometime ...

So do the Duggers.

My evangelical Xtian in-laws.

Mormons (maybe 80%)

Hasidic Jews.

Quakers.

Kshama Sawant worshippers.

Cthulu desciples (cool, but still, you suck).

The passive aggressive Seatlte douches that didn't like my dog barking and called in to give us a citation.

People who carry guns in public. Sometimes they are called "police". Not always.

Anyone who owns a yoga mat.

Syrians? Not sure. Some are probably cool.

Maybe someone can stack rank this list vs atrocities committed. You yoga fuckers are probably the worst.

1mp2rid, thank you for making my day. :)

Let me remind you that if someone Republican says something stupid this does not make all Republicans stupid or racist. Sawant has said that all the rich peoples houses on Capitol Hill should be taken from them for public use, and that the Government should take over Boeing. You can't blame a party because one member is an idiot.

@24
+1

This is the problem. There won't be a reform. So in 100 years, we'll still be dealing with this, assuming they haven't already relocated to the West in sufficient numbers to out-breed the locals in a few decades,which is very possible in parts of Europe.
Who else has 5-8 kids and strictly indoctrinates them?

@25: Um.
Mormons?
Catholics?
Quiverfulls?
I mean seriously, have you not heard of the Duggers?

@12- They're in Seattle, Cairo, Benghazi, Beijing, Beirut, Olso, Melbourne, New Delhi, New York, Toronto, London, Paris, etc...

The fact you don't know them is just a sign of how fucking ignorant and sheltered you are.

@24- It's amazing how you manage to point out the flaw in your argument (the big monotheistic religions have the same basic textual problems) and then handwave it away. It's like you just don't care if you're being reasonable.

@28: Insisting that that all 3 Monotheisms are equivalently flawed fixes the problem of Daesh how?

@28
No, the monotheistic religions don't all have the same problems because, once again, one of them WAS NEVER reformed, and never will be reformed.

You defend one of the most, if not THE most, bigoted belief system in human because you'd rather ruin civilization than admit that (Judeo)Christianity produced many good things, one of them being Western Democracy. Then, you follow with the "Islamic contributions to Europe" canard, which is a massive misunderstanding of the preservation of Greek thought by the successive caliphates, not really so much do with "Islamic thought"; in fact you could argue that the Arab geniuses flourished in a time and place where they were not subject to the harsh fundamentalist punishment because of their status. If Islam itself were a breeding ground for scientific thought, the Muslims would be on Mars by now, not blowing up buildings.

To the extent that all religions are the same, I would ask once again when you plan to relocate to an Islamic country in order to get away from the murderous Christians here, and if not, why?

@26

Cute, but not in Europe. And not in cat lady bluetopia coastal cities.

@31: So you have no objection to people like the Duggers then? Because Dominionists are committed to turning the US into a theocracy too. And they're working pretty hard at it and have had a lot of success influencing the Republican Party.

Is it ok because they insist women wear long denim skirts instead of headscarves?

Well, as far as I can tell American Evangelicals (if that's the group with the denim skirts) have been much more content to die in wars started by our wise leaders, pay taxes, grow food, and vote, than conduct any significant terrorism because they aren't getting getting enough entitlements (like the apologists for the French terrorists claim caused Paris. seriously) .

Also, they settled and built this country large parts of this country, so comparing them to a foreign faith (or it's fringe) that so some extent have been at war with us for decades is so wrongheaded that it borders on treason.

I would very much like it if the Muslims were like the Amish or the Mennonites, but history, and their behavior in no-go Euro zones, says otherwise.

I compare them in so far as they share the common and repugnant goal of society under theocratic rule.
My question to you is, would you be in favor of a theocracy in the US if it were a Christian one?
Please do not obfuscate by bringing up tactics, or examples of how a Caliphate would be worse.
Just yes or no please.
And I'm not trying to trick you; I genuinely would like to know.

I do have to add though, that your "foreign faith" distinction is absurd. Do you consider Judaism a"foreign faith" as well?

Please provide criteria to be met allowing a religion in this country to be considered native.
If you would be so kind.

And to be clear, I am comparing ISIS and Christian Dominionists.
Not garden variety, every day practioners of Christianity or Islam.

@25 & 30 - Why, in your opinion, should we imagine Islam to be more intrinsically resistant to reform than Judaism or Christianity? Only someone unfamiliar with the over 600 points of Mosaic law would suggest the difference lies in doctrine. I generally agree that Reform Jews, followed by, oh, say, Episcopalians or Quakers represent the most peaceful expressions of anthropomorphic monotheism, but I would say that represents the degree to which they have rejected their foundational texts. Why would Muslims be unable to do something similar? I'm genuinely interested in anyone's thoughts on this.

I can appreciate that Christianity created some great things, including the empiricism that is slowly revealing its essential premises to be flawed when not outright false. I think it's best products have been Spinozan pantheism and Bruno's panpsychism. Then again, I see certain parallels in Sufism. I defend only the notion that a religiously pluralistic society with a secular core is a net good, to be achieved by opposing actions, not beliefs.

@30: Do you believe that Islam hasn't undergone significant ideological change in the ~1400 years since its founding?

@37 - you are one SMART COOKIE! those big words identify you as a true patriot of Planet Genius!

@37 thank you for for bringing some conversation to this conversation.

@39 if you can't deal with the level of discourse, please go elsewhere instead of showing the childish level of your intellect.

meanwhile http://www.issaquahpress.com/2015/12/21/…

"Rodne said that because of the increased threats seen in such recent attacks as the shootings in San Bernardino, Calif., Americans shoulder the responsibility of reporting any suspicious activity to authorities.
He also said that law enforcement agencies across the nation have urged Americans with proper permits to carry firearms, noting that authorities can’t be everywhere all the time.
“Americans have become the first first responders,” he said."

i shudder in fear of these people.

the Republicans, gun nuts & other 'Muricans, not Muslims.