Savage Love Letter of the Day: The Crying Game

Comments

1
And I thought I had problems. Good luck to you, hon. Seriously.
2
This poor woman. That guy is a complete asshole. She would be lucky to be rid of him (assuming she can get him to pay child support).
3
DTMFA.
4
Ahhh. Welcome back. Now these are the kinds of letters that had me fall in love with this column in the first place.

Good advice but my heart breaks for you MOMMY because breaking up with kids is brutal. Breaking up in that vulnerable first year of parenting? That is the kind of torture and humiliation no one fantasizes about. I'm so sorry. I think it feels like cheating because it IS cheating. He sounds like a horrible person. (Because of the malice and gaslighting not because of the kinks.) My wish for you is to find something wonderful, healthy and happy at the end of this miserable tunnel.
5
he wants to explore his baby fetish

It's not just his fetish, it's his personality. Next time you play mommy, abandon him in a dumpster.
6
Everything Dan and commenters 1-5 said, and then some.
7
@5, I actually LOL'd at that one, to the point where I had to call out "oh nothing, just something on the internet" in response to a question from the next room. Thank you.
8
One more to the chorus.

He's being an asshole. Not because of the fetish, but because of his terrible timing. He laid this all on you when you have an infant in the house? Really?

If he had the least bit of sensitivity or sense of responsibility he should have either dealt with this before your recent baby was conceived or waited a couple years.

Grow the fuck up, diaper-dude. You've got a newborn you are now responsible to. That should be your first priority. Put your diaper fetish on a shelf for a year or two, and deal with it later.
9
Her mother probably warned her not to marry him, but no - she wouldn't listen!

Nobody listens to their mother anymore.
10
THANK YOU DAN!!

This guy is a completely selfish jerk!!!
MOMMY let him go and wallow in his nappies...

So much love to you and the kids.
11
Sure, divorce. But why now? Can’t you wait until the youngest is in school? Three kids is a lot. I know parents who far prefer parenting post-divorce, but they invariably have only one child.

Knowing you will be free of him will make the next five years much more bearable and make his affairs much less consequential.
12
Get a lawyer, divorce him, take him to the cleaners, get sole custody.
13
"and I would follow the long list of role-play activities he likes (all communicated in an email)"
Doesn't this bother anyone else? I think we should be adding passive-aggressive as fuck to his list of faults...
14
The husband certainly has a lot of fetishes, the biggest being victimhood. He was the "victim" of kink-negativity when she didn't want to constantly indulge in what sounds like a really demanding kink. Then, she took away the only leverage he had by agreeing to it, and now he's the "victim" of monogamy--a practice he was apparently okay with until now.

In short, I agree with anyone who said 'DTMFA' or a more verbose variant.
15
@MOMMY, if you really want your husband to drop this ludicrous power play, yes—by all means—get the best divorce lawyer in your state on retainer. Then tell Mr MyWayOrTheHighway to either drop the ultimatum and agree to discuss the management of his fetishes rationally (including allowing you to set the boundaries), or you'll divorce his arrogant ass and take full custody of the kids. Believe me, no judge in the US will give parental consideration to a father who wants to be diapered, spanked, and fat-sat by strange women. Just imagine him trying to explain this in court, "But, Your Honor, it's just cunnilingus. It's not like it's real sex."

Yeah—uh, no.

Unless he's perfectly happy to give up his kids and pay top dollar on child support, he'll parlay. And, honestly, if he doesn't care about the kids, do you really want to be married to this big baby?
16
@13, good point also.
17
We did this because my husband got depressed and wanted to end his life and—yes—that got my attention. Now I want to fulfill his fantasies and fetishes.
Did nobody else shudder after reading this bit? He may well be a MF who deserves to be dumped ... but MOMMY also reveals an odd detachment in describing her husband's suicidal tendency and how it was only that revelation that led her to "want" to fulfill his fetishes.

I see both of them growing even more apart as their respective resentments are fed. If MOMMY tires of dealing with the eternal baby, will he need to reinforce her acquiescence by threatening suicide repeatedly (hmm, crying wolf)? I feel that MOMMY's sudden "want" is a result of feeling vulnerable at the prospect of being a single mother of three. As it's not a genuine desire to play the kinds of games her husband wants, she should not have to interact with him in ways that go far beyond the general definition of GGG.

These two people are a psychosexual mismatch. I can't see him being happy when she's in it only to preserve what she considers to be a monogamous marriage. IMO it would be better for her to allow him to get these special needs satisfied away from home with other willing and eager participants while she can still share her preferred vanilla life the majority of the time. Ugh. Not a welcome choice, no matter which one she picks.
18
Call his bluff.
19
Yeah wow, this guy is an asshole. Sounds like he's putting one fetish ahead of his relationship with his wife and his duty to his family.

This is, like, two steps away from the proverbial Dishonest Necrophiliac.
20
@5. Awesome. Made my night.

Well all I have to say is the second he wiped out the diaper fetish, I would have folded. That and zoophilia are bridges too far for me. (Not that they area similar in any way). I think it's doomed.
21
When I read, after the birth of our third child, I knew we were in for another letter about bullshit parenting avoidance.
Whatever you decide, LW, ...I'd like to give this guy of yours a few wacks on the arse myself, naughty, naughty boy..
make sure he does his share of parenting.
22
@22
He would probably enjoy that!
23
This guy is soooo selfish, i can't get over it. I feel awful for this woman since she seems to be blaming herself. Wow. I'm speechless. I get its a fetish and i am not judging that fetish at all. As a mother the last thing i want to do is continue to have to 'change someone's diaper' and always be the one to be the 'mommy'. I agree with Dan, don't wait for this man to decide, you need to separate yourself from him.
My god this man is a selfish human being.
24
I'm sorry, but just because you have sexual desires does not trump your 3 kids getting to see their parents daily. I am very sexual and maybe I'm oppressed (and obviously I'm not him, he's not me) but i feel like I'm able to rise above the desire by consistently grounding myself with the reasons i choose my kids over my sexual desires. I might be looked down on for this, but these kids are young and you chose to have them, WAIT to fulfill these fantasies until they are older. Sacrifice. It's what needs to be done right now.
25
@24 Agreed. When you decide to have children, you decide to put them before your own needs. Now, (trying to be fetish non-judgmental here,) it sounds to me that this particular fetish would take quite a bit more effort, planning, then maybe playing with blindfolds and handcuffs. It sounds to me that it would take an expectation of more uninterrupted alone time, than any parents with an infant can expect, at any given time. (And this is after I put aside all hubby's other asshole-ish qualities.)
26
*i guess i should note i commented based only on reading the last paragraph of Dans advice and didn't read the other comments. I read Dans advice & responses & everyone is on board that this man's an asshole that needs to really reevaluate his priorities.
27
So... She's going to be able to use that email he sent her in the divorce, right?
28
He waited until he had three children before expressing how clearly he doesn't want to be a parent? He not only fails to uphold his share of parenting responsibility but also insists on competing with his children to divert the attention of their one actual parent? Dear god, poor kids. And poor mother!
29
I'm sorry, but besides the manipulation and assholish behavior don't you guys think this is so not sexy for the wife? Like, he's the only who's allowed to have a sex-drive in the house. The wife is super GGG and we should all try to indulge our partner's fantasies, but then, they should try to turn US on sometimes too. Right? Like, she has to diaper her real infant several times a day (not sexy), then has to diaper her husband?? Not sexy, but maybe if he did it differently she wouldn't have to turn off HER sexual feelings to feed his (which is what I imagine she has done, because I think that is how I would respond). She has not mentioned what he does for her to get her excited. Does he even go down on her? And don't get me started on the ewww of what's in his mind for being an adult "baby" wanting to give oral sex to the "mommy"!! Come on!!!.

LW, what does he do FOR YOU sexually?
30
@5 and @21 got it. He doesn't just have a fetish for being a baby, he wants to be a baby in every respect. He's avoiding adult responsibility entirely. Anyone else reminded of Paul "Stefonknee" Wolscht when reading this?

It's one thing to have a bit of baby play to blow off some steam after the stress of work and housework and so on. It's quite another to check out of responsibility entirely and decide to suck a sippy cup instead.

I can get why a woman who just had a third child may be terrified to lose her husband, but it sounds he's more like a fourth ass to wipe than a second parent, and she DOES NOT need that right now.
31
@20, I agree. I'm not sure why people are being so respectful and non-judgmental about this guy's fetish. The way he does it, he's like playing a victim of pedophilia. And that turns him on!
32
Yeah, I agree with everyone before me, especially directly before me: 28 and 29. Not only is he weirdly competing with his kids for their mom's atention and trying to make the like one part of her life where she's still a non-mom into MORE BEING A MOM, but there's no way this is sexy to the non-fetishist LW. Like, that's an uncommon fetish to begin with, and sure, sometimes things get hot when your partner finds them hot (been there, very much so) but that...is a very hard one to wrap your head around. When you DON'T have an actual baby. When you do? This isn't just 'not sexy' or 'a lot of work' or 'demanding and whiny' (though it is also all those things.) It's DISTURBING AS FUCK. She has to diaper her actual babies...and then you with your resulting fetish hard-on? No, a million times no. The timing on this is suspect, irresponsible, and completely non-empathetically GROSS.

P.S. Forcing compliance with suicide threats is considered a textbook abuse signal. Dump his ass so hard the diaper doesn't cushion the fall.
33
What @15 said. Pretty sure she's going to get some insanely favorable rulings in court when all the details of this asshole's behavior are laid bare in broad daylight. He'll be lucky not to be committed to a psych ward, much less see his kids (or a huge chunk of his income for the next 18 years) ever again.

Divorce his selfish ass, tell all his friends and family why, take every penny you can, and don't feel the least bit bad about any of it.
34
A new baby is such a hands on job, and this moron is making it all about him.
LW, you can't keep indulging this man's narcissism. Let him seperate from you, he just takes the two older children with him half the week. It looks like you have years ahead of you keeping this guy focused on his role as a father.
Let him go as a husband.
35
@33, for her own sake, I think spreading the 'why' amongst family & friends is a bad idea. Aside from lacking class (and raising judgemental "How could you marry someone like that?!" questions), if he's already threatened suicide, that might push him over the edge which would be really stressful for her, both emotionally and financially (dead men don't pay child support). And families are bad at keeping secrets--this isn't something you want an eavesdropping little cousin passing along to one of her kids at Thanksgiving. Take the high road, but for sure hightail it outta there!
36
@29 Spot on! I couldn't have said it better myself, and I am an unmarried childless man. If I ever found a partner that GGG, after having three children, I would be thanking all that is good in the world for my great fortune!
37
@36 Didn't mean that to sound like I would only be wanting a GGG partner for sex. I was also thinking about her love and devotion, and the kids.
38
The real question here is not whether you've proven your GGG-ness (you most certainly have). It's whether or not you want to take care of yet another infant.
39
If you meant me, I am perfectly happy helping my sister with her kids. It seems to me that childless family members, would actually be an evolutionary advantage, if they help siblings care for their children.
40
Yes, the guy is an a selfish as whole, dtmfa, and, imo, this is a fetish too far in the context of having all the already diapered young kids around the house.

That said, if she chooses divorce, she should be very careful about using this fetish as leverage against her husband in any divorce proceeding. I think every state has a no-fault rule when it comes to marital assets; and who knows if they even have enough assets make it even worth it.

So, the fetish stuff may only come into play with respect to parental custody....but be careful what you ask for. Does she really want sole custody? Being a newly divorced single mom with three kids (including a newborn) means she will have virtually no social life for years...if she has sole custody.

The best punishment, er joint parenting plan, might actually be making sure he gets the little rugrats every Friday to Sunday so she can start moving on with her life.

Divorce is one of those things where your first inclination is scorched earth, and that sentiment is certainly understandable in this case. But it's almost always healthier to think of the long game.
41
On the other hand, @40, do you really want to leave your kids (especially with one in diapers) in the care of someone who claims to find diapers and infants sexually arousing?

Now, I don't think he's actually pedophilic, because clearly taking care of a 9 month old baby, or the toddler that baby will be in a few months, is the polar opposite of the abnegation of responsibility that gets him off. But as a mother, it's a concern that would be in my mind regardless.
42
@5 FTW
43
Gamebird@41, the LW doesn't say he's a bad father. Nothing like being the sole carer of children for a few days a week to bring out the adult, one would hope.
He's indulging himself and she is caught up in it. She says she still has love for him, and obviously its hard for her to feel a lot of inner strength when tending a young child.
LW, this man is not taking care of the needs of his family, is not putting his children and you anywhere near his top priorities. This is not love, so why are you looking for ways to keep the marriage going?
44
What a strange mix of comments. Lots of people bending over backwards to be non-judgmental about his kink, lots of suggestions to out him in court. I'd recommend against that unless her kink is "victim of murder/suicide."

Run, don't walk.
45
@41, like at @43 said, nothing the lw said gives any indication that he's a pedophile. But a conservative judge may not be so nuanced when it comes to distinguishing between a safe adult fetish (even if I'm personally a little squicked out); and activity that legitimately poses a danger to kids.

Now, if she legitimately believes that he could be a danger to the kids (she did mention that he threatened to take his life)...then by all means run into court and waive those emails.

However, my only point was don't be vindictive just to be vindictive. She should think about what she wants first (and/or what's best for her kids); and if she wants a divorce, then talk to a lawyer about the best way of achieving those results.
46
This is an awful situation. By stating that the nine month old baby in the house is competition for his fetish, the husband is revealing, as others have said, that this is not just a sexytimes thing. This seems to be about wanting to ditch all responsibility and be the baby. I can't imagine much worse from a partner when there are three children needing care.

Pursue divorce with him taking custody of the older children? Sounds like a practical solution, but would he accept that, given his apparent desire to avoid caring responsibilities? If he earns a lot of money, accepting custody and plenty of cash could be sensible, particularly if that cash is enough to cover a lot of professional childcare. But if vast sums of money aren't there it would be tough at first. Accept an open marriage? That could quickly become a resentful, toxic setup, particularly if he's off with various mommies while she can't date because childcare. I think Dan's advice is the least worst option - pursue a divorce which at least supports the LW's financial interests, and gives her the chance of finding someone equally lovable who doesn't bring all this hassle to the relationship.
47
@43: "Gamebird@41, the LW doesn't say he's a bad father"

She doesn't say he's a good one, or pretty much anything good about him.
48
Anyone else think that this guy is finding a marriage with three kids overwhelming, and using his fetish to push MOMMY to dump him because he's too big a coward to walk out?

Think about it. "Since the birth of our third child he hasn't been happy..." Maybe he never wanted this third child. But instead of leaving his family, he decides to bring out a fetish most of us would find too gross to indulge -- particularly at a time when, as many have said, MOMMY has a real baby to diaper and nurture. But she surprises him by being GGG, not just occasionally, but whenever hubby wants. He then raises the stakes by suggesting fetish parties. To his surprise, she agrees to that too. Getting involved with other women? MOMMY still doesn't balk. He has to go as far as demand that he be allowed to indulge in decidedly NON-babylike sexual activities with these other women, and finally, this pushes MOMMY to the point of putting her foot down and making her the bad guy.

I think MOMMY needs to call his bluff, haul his ass back to the fetish-friendly counsellor, and have the riot act read to him. It's not about indulging a fetish, which MOMMY has proved beyond proof she's willing to do. He wants out and needs to grow the cojones to just admit it.
49
"He now says he will divorce me if I don't agree to this."

Score! If that was true, at least. A shame it's probably not.
50
LW, I hope you read these comments! It's rarely so unanimous on this commenting board, and I almost never post but wanted to add my voice to the choir.
I also was a mother with young children and a narcissistic partner (not as bad as yours) and was worried about splitting up. This is what I happened in my life: I finally left, dealt with an enormous amount of anger and blame and drama from my ex, but I rode that out, he got over it and is now a reliable co-parent. I'm glad that - as one commenter above is advising for you - that I kept an eye on the long-term and kept things as civil as possible on my end. The split was rough but everyone is happier now, our children are thriving, and I was free to find a mate who actually cares about me as well as himself. (Bonus: I have a sex life now that I couldn't have dreamed of before!)
I know that you wrote to Dan for advice on keeping your marriage monogamous so I'm not sure that any of this is what you want to hear, but a man who creates so much drama and blame instead of being focused on being a father and partner - this is not someone you want by your side, or at least not until he gets his head straight.
Best of luck to you.
51
Dan is certainly correct on the DTMFA response but I have a couple of thoughts I didn't really see in the comments.

I was married for a long time to someone who would pretend to be into my kinks while silently sabotaging them so she wouldn't have to go there with me. It took me years to get over that. I can understand the husband on that. For everything else, he's a manipulative asshole who needs to be left at the curb.

My second thought is that this guy must be some level of extremely charismatic, is being led on by these other women, is paying them or lying about them. I live in a pretty kinky section of the country and "mommies" are incredibly rare and diaper players even more so. Going into this letter, I was convinced that this dude was using divorce to manipulate what he wanted because the moment he became a free agent, he was going to be one of those lonely kinksters perpetually frustrated by unfulfilled desire. The fact that he's got *multiple* options blows my mind.

Maybe my understanding of the frequency of diaper fetish is way off...
52
@43: Threatening to tear apart your family (with three very young kids) because you need to be diapered and spanked is being a terrible father.

Putting your own selfish needs above your family is being a horrible father, and person.

Call his bluff, LW, it is the only thing you can really do if you can not stomach him fulfilling these fantasies with other women.
53
43 and 47 are getting at what I was thinking. My first thought on marriage is that it's 2 people going through life together meeting the needs of life. The work doesn't have to be shared absolutely equally, but it does need to be shared. That's making money, caring for children, doing housework, keeping each other happy sexually. My question when reading the original letter was was what he was doing to be her partner in life. Does he step up when she's sick? Is he contributing to her happiness in small ways? When she needs a break from the kids, is he wiping up puke, settling squabbles, reading the same bedtime story for the 40th time, doing a mountain of laundry including the poopy diaper pail? Because if she'd given any indication that he was a wonderful husband, father and friend in all other regards except for this one fetish, I'd be open to having another opinion, but as it is, I'm with the chorus. DTMFA.
54
See @12. Today it's fetishes. Tomorrow it's __________. His baby fetish is boiling over like a toddler tantrum.

You deserve better. Your kids deserve a father.
55
Throw one more DTMFA on the top of the pile. It's unanimous. This guy is an asshole and even with three young kids, you do not want to be married to him.

However, i don't agree with those saying to use his fetishes against him in court. That is wrong. I thought we were sex positive here, people. I personally think his fetish is gross and weird (sorry!), but I don't think he should be persecuted for it. He should be persecuted for being an asshole.
He sounds so immature, avoidant, and single-mindedly focused on his sex play that he probably won't fight her for a lot of custody. He just wants to be left alone to do diaper stuff.
56
I wish everything in life was this clean cut. It's gonna be hard, no doubt - but at least it's clear as day.
57
I remember a letter from some time ago in which a woman wrote in that she satisfied her husband's diaper/baby fetish though it didn't turn her on, and all she wanted was some vanilla sex for her. Dan's answer was that he was shocked. He wasn't shocked by the baby fetish because he's not shocked by any fetish. He was shocked that the guy who had found the rare woman who was okay with the fetish wasn't doing everything he could to keep her. All she was asking was for a little vanilla sex in return, and he wasn't willing to do even that.

I'm sure someone will correct me by siting the exact column, but I think I have the basics correct. This sounds like the same thing. The LW does say that she loves her husband, but the theme this week is that love does not conquer all. Sex does not conquer all. There's still all the stuff about children, conflict, debt, housework, illness, loans, responsibility, somewhere to live, work, etc.
58
Eh. Let him go and explore. Take notes, take names, take his assets. *Then* dump the asshole.

Differences in sexual desires and kinks (like pretty much everything) should be discussed in an open and loving manner. This guy doesn't want that loving relationship; he wants someone to clean his house, raise his children, and be a live blow-up doll. Get what you need then send him on his way.
59
So if she gave another dude blow jobs, that wouldn't count as sex to him, right?
60
What a horrible person! I can't even begin to fathom how he thinks she is supposed to comply with this long list of complicated scenarios with 3 young kids in the house. As a kink positive woman and a mom, there's always a little something in the back of my head thinking-how am I gonna answer the door when the little one knocks and I've got a harness on!? Dan's advice is spot on. She needs to have everything in place-lawyer, plan, finances and serve him with divorce papers. It's clear this guy doesn't get it at all and doesn't want to. He's not a husband, father and partner. She and her children deserve better and they'd be better off on their own.
61
@59 The problem is she probably doesn't have time for that, what with the nine-moth old "in the house" (and what a weird way to refer to your own child).
62
Ginnie @61: How is that weird?
63
@62
Maybe it's just because English is not my first language, but the whole phrase sounds weird to me ("He also says he doesn't want to do it with me because there's a nine-month-old baby in the house"). Like the baby is a temporary guest or something.
64
@52; There are terrible fathers and then there are terrible fathers. The LW doesn't suggest that if they seperated, that there is no way in hell would she leave children with him. His fetish behaviour can't take up 24 hours of the day, surely he works. They have to eat.
Just kicking him out and doing all the child rearing herself is the last resort, as I see it. Rather, let him go yet expect or demand that he share the tasks with his children, if she feels he is going to do the tasks safely.
65
In order to break up the uniformity, and perhaps spark some further discussion, I note that MOMMY writes: "I have known about his fetishes since early in our relationship. The bone of contention is that I would only do it sometimes but I would not indulge his many sexual fantasies all of the time, as I'm not really into them, and this caused him to suppress his desires . . . I admit I wasn't supportive of his fetish needs for a long time. He is very angry about this and feels because I forced him to suppress his needs for so long. . . ."

We should all expect that LWs to write from their perspective, eliding or entirely omitting, uncomfortable and unflattering facts about themselves. With that in mind, we are left to imagine just what form her lack of support took through the course of their relationship. In particular, did MOMMY engage in these fetishes prior to marriage with a frequency that MOMMY's husband accepted, only to stop once they were married? How exactly did she shut down her husband's fetishes during their marriage? Did she employ any threats? Use any coercion? Withhold love and affection? Withhold sex? Deny him any outlets to explore this aspect of sexuality? Belittle his sexual needs?

Perhaps, and if so, MOMMY isn't wholly innocent as the comments up to this point suggest, and MOMMY's husband isn't quite so villainous, and it wouldn't be surprising that MOMMY's husband's feelings are backing up on him in a particularly ugly way.

Yes, we don't know, and only have her letter to on which to go, but I posit these things to suggest some alternate context in which think about the state of this marriage at this juncture.
66
Past transgressions don't excuse future behavior.
67
Yes Fan, @48, I think that is what he is doing. He just keeps upping the demands and making it almost impossible for the LW to sort them in any way. He is wanting out, and probably because he does feel overwhelmed.
Having three small children can feel like the demands and responsibilities will never end.
He needs some therapy which is not just focused on his sexual needs and fantasies. As I understand some aspects of parenting, the ages of one's children can activate unconscious unresolved issues from one's own childhood.
68
63-- In English it's not weird to say "I have a 7 year old, a 5 year old, and a 9 month old at home (if those are indeed the ages of your children).
69
@68 Okay then, thank you for clarifying that.
70
If the LW should choose to drop off her baby at a fire station, remember to put him in the box for unwanted children, not the one for puppies. ;-p
71
The husband was really stupid for denying his sexual needs year after year. I guess he doesn't read Dan's column. That never ends well. If you maintain denial until the dam bursts, it ends up bursting when you have a wife and three young children.

Many gay people have done the same to their families. Gay is not the same as kink, but the process is the same: denial, denial, denial... the dam bursts and you hurt the people you love.

Even if everyone you've ever met devalues your gender identity or sexual needs, take their value seriously anyway. Otherwise, you'll eventually either self-medicate into oblivion or badly betray the ones you love.
72
Now just hold on a second folks. A moment of your self-righteous time, if I may. I'm not here to prevent the lynching, but I would like to offer some second thoughts on the condemned, although SublimeAfterglow seems to have beat me to it. For those criticizing his timing, I want to point out that he brought up his fetish needs a long time ago, at the start of their relationship, and LW chose to downplay them. "I admit I wasn't supportive of his fetish needs for a long time" could mean anything from "I quietly ignored his needs in the hopes that they would go away" to "I was a cruel, judgmental scold." Who knows how that part went down, but had she taken his needs seriously when he brought them up, they might have discovered their incompatibility a long time ago, and might have chosen a different path that didn't involve so many kids.

Also, while threatening suicide is indeed a tactic used by emotional abusers, it is also the last resort of someone who is depressed, whose self-esteem has been shredded, and who has tunnel vision and sees no way out. I don't know which it is in this case, but then, neither do y'all. But if it was a for-real contemplation of suicide, it would be in keeping with a guy who has been repressing his sexual/emotional needs for years for the sake of pleasing his uninterested partner.

As for the rest...ya, the guy is in no shape to be a decent father or husband if this kink is dominating his every waking moment. And he shouldn't have taken no for an answer all those years ago, if this is so important to him.

Carry on. I've got some spare rope if you guys are looking for some.
73
Let me add my voice to the chorus: fuck this fucking asshole. This whiny piece of shit wants to be treated like a baby because he is a fucking baby.

We only have two kids, a toddler and an infant, and we're fucking exhausted. Forget fetishes-- we barely have the time or energy for any sex, at all. Now I could be upset about that, but 1) my children will always come first, because I'm not a complete asshole, and 2) I'm also too wrapped up in child-care to devote much energy to thinking about the sex I'm not getting. I bet you all the money in my pocket that this selfish piece of shit is doing fuck-all to take care of the kids, which is how he's found the time to locate and attend five (5!) fetish parties in two months. FUCK HIM.

All that said, I'm not sure DTMFA is a practical solution, as that will leave LW caring for three children on her own. And yes, it will be on her own. Any douchebag proposing separation with three small children is not remotely concerned with the logistics of childcare. Hmm.
74
@65. If her letter is accurate - if - she indulged in his sexual fantasies sometimes, but not to the extent he wanted.

Would he have married her if she was belittling his fantasies and then had children with her? I could see it.
75
All right, yeah -- but there's a vast gulf, too, between, "my sexual needs are simply not being met at all" and "I do not have exactly the sex life I fantasize about at the exact moment I want it." The latter? Yeah, people who don't have three kids at home don't even get that. Cry me a river.
76
@65/72: I agree with you that if the letter's inaccurate, my verdict would be different. The letter seems to be describing the latter half of #75's summary; it's possible that she's lying, but I don't see any glaring reasons to assume she is. And barring glaring reasons, I generally assume the letter's an accurate description of the situation, because all letters could be fake.

I mean, maybe she never indulged his kink at all, and maybe they don't actually have kids. I don't see anything in the letter that inclines me to think either of these things.
77
@agreed re: 75/76. Her letter is sour enough I tend to believe it. Double down on the "don't get the full range of one's kink."

Heck, I was lucky to get sex there for a while with two children under the age of three, much less any of the "spank me master I've been a bad girl" stuff.
78
I don't want to lynch him, Late@72, after having worked thru parenting of small children and their less than stellar, on the job father.. But what about my life, type diatribes repeated at intervals..
It's just timing is all. The world is littered with badly parented children because hey, the dam on people's desires burst.
And your suggestion , Late, on how this LW should proceed?

79
Children are more resilient than we give them credit for. DTMF and go find your own happiness. All the best, LW.
80
My suggestion, Lava, is to hang him from the highest tree at dawn, but to do so with a sense of the ineffable sadness of life. In accordance with his last wishes, he will be buried with his diapers on. LW will brush a tear of regret from her cheek as she walks away, replacing her bonnet and wiping the dirt on her gingham dress, but a young engineer with a ten-year plan will offer her his arm and his devotion, and take on her mortgage and three kids to boot, because love.
81
I don't know, what am I supposed to say? I thought Dan kind of nailed it.
82
The thing I do not understand about the LW is that her problem is essentially a non-problem that she is turning into a problem. "I don't want to do these things with my husband and he doesn't want to do them with me." Great! Everybody wins. She and the husband don't need to split but do need to negotiate the terms of a monogamish relationship in which he gets his kinky needs met elsewhere, but otherwise is present in their home as a loving husband and father. Maybe she'd be okay with him getting his kinks on elsewhere as long as her sexual needs are being met at home. Or maybe the kinks can be indulged, but no actual sex. Or any number of other reasonable compromises.
83
The naysayers may have a point. Depending on how much this guy is able to keep his shit together when he's not running off reveling in his newfound kinky freedom, LW may be able to either discuss terms of separation, or even possibly float the idea of a companionate marriage. If this is just a wild period and he's able to rein himself in, it might be easier on both of them not having to split all their stuff and still having the other parent handy.

Bits of the letter don't leave me 100% optimistic about this going over well, but you lose nothing in considering the less extreme disruptive options before going ahead with the bigger ones.
84
at least I agree with this guy that he needs spanking.
85
I am impressed that they found the time with 3 kids (including a 9 month old!) to go to 5 fetish parties in 2 months! We have a 4 year old and a 9 month old and are not getting out of the house nearly that much. This asshole is complaining about her only fulfilling his kink every other weekend, but most parents of young kids would kill to have that much time away from the kids. She needs to DTMFA and find someone who appreciates the amount of effort she is putting into their relationship right now.
86
Conspiracy theory interpretation: it's not really the husband communicating through email at all!
87
@76/@77. Briefly, my point isn't that MOMMY's letter isn't inaccurate per se, but merely misleading by omission.

It is entirely in keeping with the facts letter, to hypothesize that the following may have occurred:

I have known about his fetishes since early in our relationship, because he laid all his kink cards on the table at the start of our relationship. I would ... do it sometimes, but only every other month, as I'm not really into them. Since I would not indulge his many sexual fantasies regularly, he suppress[ed] his desires. I knew he wanted to do this more often, but he didn't complain, unless I had be rejecting his requests for a couple of months. I was hoping that he would just get over his fetish, and that it wouldn't ever be a part of our sex life.

But every couple of months, my unwillingness to indulge his fantasies would become a bone of contention, so I would agree to participate in his kinks more regularly, which I did, because I was sure he was the man for me, and that if he loved me he would eventually just grow out these kinks. Of course, I would indulge him for a while, but then I would allow things to return to normal after that.

When we were together for seven years, we got married, I admit I wasn't supportive of his fetish needs for a long time after the wedding. I thought being married meant we didn't need to do stuff like that anymore. But we would argue about it, so I kept agreeing to satisfy his kinks more regularly, because I was just sure that eventually he wouldn't need to do this anymore. As before, I would indulge him for a while, but then I would allow things to return to normal after that.

Then we started having children. Of course our sex life diminished, just after each of our children were born, but when we started having sex again, he actually wanted to engage in those same kinks. Well, I didn't want to, and I told him that if he loved me and the kids, he should be fine with just regular sex.

Now it's been a few years and he is very angry about this and feels because I forced him to suppress his needs for so long, and after not being totally honest with him (and myself) for so many years I am stuck and don't know what to do.

Again, this is just an alternative view of what may have transpired. A partner lays there kink cards out early in the relationship, and a vanilla partner who doesn't outright lie, but misleads themselves and their partner about their willingness to engage in their partner's kink under the false belief that their partner will grow out of their kink. If something along these lines occurred, there is every reason for MOMMY to have elided these facts because they are unflattering. But I add this given the one-sided nature of the comments to this point.
88
How creative, Late. Still with the hanging.
@79/6.. You reared a few children lately? Resilience is not the issue, children need care for a good eighteen years of life and what time would this woman have to go find her happiness, knee deep
in real baby used nappies( diapers). Not a lot of men want to take on rearing other's children.
Id let this nasty little twerp go, just make sure he rears his children.
89
@86 Conspiracy theory interpretation (addendum):
The email relationship is actually with an evil adult baby fetishist mastermind.
90
SA; who gives a fuck? He stuck his cock in her, unprotected, at least three times. He gets to wash the dirty nappies too.
91
@87: Your alternative history is belied by her attending five (5!) fetish parties with him in the last two months. I think that's about the amount of sexual activity I've gotten-- total-- in that time period. Which is a completely reasonable amount when you're raising small children.

This is a woman trying to care for his needs, while he plainly doesn't give a flying fuck about hers. Or the kids.
92
Oh that's right. People use disposable nappies now.
93
@90/LavaGirl. Who get to "wash the dirty nappies" wasn't the issue presented by MOMMY. But MOMMY wants to know what to do, and if my surmise is closer to the reality regarding their relationship, then MOMMY hasn't been honest even in an anonymous letter to Dan, and it's likely that she hasn't been honest in counseling and in discussing the future with her husband. That last point is crucial, because if MOMMY has been less than honest to this point in their relationship about her willingness to engage in her husband's kink, there is little reservoir of trust for him to believe her now, which may be why he wants out so badly, and that is something she would need to acknowledge in order to save this marriage. And that might be a better start for MOMMY than calling her husband a "naccisistic" "moron" and a "nasty little twerp."
94
@88 -- "Still with the hanging." Just rolling with the whole lynch-mob vibe, Lava. I am nothing if not accommodating. I came to bury LW's husband, not to praise him. The noble Savage hath told you the husband is selfish; if it is so, it is a grievous fault; and grievously shall Husband answer it.
95
@80 LateBloomer
I <3 that reply :)
96
@91/ I Hate Screen Names: No, that fact fit comfortably into my narrative. MOMMY has always indulged her husband for a short period time when he's pushed. Now, after years of (mostly) denial he's actually having a bit of a meltdown (including threats of suicide and divorce), while MOMMY is finally realizing the seriousness of the situation, and perhaps trying to make some amends. But as I noted above, even if MOMMY is genuinely committed to fulfilling his kinks, which she has not been over the past 15 years, her husband likely does not trust that she will be willing to do so into the future.

Lastly, nowhere have I said that MOMMY's husband is behaving well. I'm merely trying to provide some context to his current actions. I would like to think that MOMMY and husband can make this work, but if I'm right MOMMY needs to be honest about her past actions.
97
@96: Except he's not threatening to break up their marriage because he's afraid she'll walk back the biweekly fetish parties. He's threatening to break up their marriage because he wants more than those parties: he also wants to fuck other women.

I further note that this is not a demand he's previously made, even when they were unmarried and childless. So I'm highly suspicious of him bringing it up now, when she's three kids deep. Particularly since he's constructed a scenario where even if she were a willing participant, that still wouldn't be enough for him:
He also says he doesn't want to do it with me because there's a nine-month-old baby in the house and he doesn't want to do it with me until our new baby is out of diapers.
Sounds like a load of horseshit to me. If your wife wants to fuck you and you don't want to fuck your wife, that doesn't give you license to fuck other people.

I don't think this relationship can be salvaged, because the guy is an asshole. Only question remaining is how best to do the uncoupling.
98
JereNYC @82 and ChiTodd @83, I like your suggestions. If they stop having sex for now, they may be able to keep the household together. If she has energy for sex it won't be too hard for her to find it and he already has his kink lined up.

Later, when the kids are older, the parents can evaluate the state of their marriage.
99
I mean if they stop having sex together.
100
@97/ I Hate Screen Names: I understand your position, and I don't disagree that his demands are extreme, even irrational. However, your views, and those of many others, are predicated on a willingness to only consider the last two months of a fifteen year relationship (i.e., the last 1 percent of the time they've been together).

When you take a wider view, and consider the remaining 99 percent of the time they've been together, what we see is that MOMMY's husband did the right thing at the start of the relationship by laying his kink cards on the table, and MOMMY drew him into a relationship with the promise that she would satisfy his kink. Whether she consciously mislead her husband on this point or not, she admits that she didn't follow through, and she wouldn't be the first vanilla partner to pull this bait-and-switch.

I see that MOMMY's unwillingness to engage in a harmless kink - which her husband told her was the price of admission - over a period of years as toxic to their relationship. Unsurprisingly, as MOMMY's husband has reached middle age, and realizes he's not getting any younger, he is exploding out of this relationship in a very ugly way. Again, I think he needs some perspective and I don't think he's doing the right thing at this point (particularly if MOMMY genuinely willing to change), but MOMMY's husband's has legitimate reason to feel trapped in a relationship with a partner who wasn't honest with him about her intentions.

This couple has hit a crossroads. How they got here may no loner matter, but I do believe that if they want to salvage their marriage there does need to be some reckoning of the path they've taken. And if not, couples get divorced all the time, for all manner of reasons. Perhaps this couple will be one of that number. But where I part company with others is that I'm not sure that MOMMY's husband deserves all the blame, while MOMMY merits sympathy.