Thank god, it's not another tortured letter. The last three made me feel real pleased my youth is over.
LW, Dan nails it here. You two guys have got so much going, just tell him your feelings about that behaviour.
Maybe a lot of the noise he makes publicly is just false bravado, he thinks he has to do some sort of performance. Or he does it to cover some social anxiety. Whatever.
We can all shift and change our behaviours, if our partners, friends or children let us know some of it annoys the shit out of them.

Just to clarify, youth ends around 45yrs by my reckoning. Then the slow slide downwards.

Dear Dan - extrOvert. Thank you.

Calpete @3,

ExtrAvert is just fine, and suggests that Dan gets his understanding of psychology from psychologists.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beau…

Extra means "outside" in Latin, and Intro means "inside". Jung believed IntrOverts turn inward, whereas ExtrAverts turn outward.

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, "The original spelling 'Extravert' is now rare in general use but is found in technical use in psychology." That's correct. If you look at scientific journal articles, virtually every paper uses the spelling ExtrAvert.

My husband and I are in a somewhat similar situation. While not as extreme as the letter writer, my husband is definitely more extroverted than I am, though thankfully he doesn't loudly talk about kinks in restaurants. But he will work a room at a party; he's very good a shmoozing, and enjoys it, while I'd rather just talk quietly with one or two people I know well.

We've learned to live with each other's idiosyncrasies. He does not insist on dragging me around with him as he shmoozes a room. I don't insist he stay home with me and read a book. Sometimes we go out together; sometimes he'll go out with some friends and I'll stay home. When we do go out together, we have a few subtle signals so he knows when I've had enough, and he is considerate enough to bring his shmoozing to a close and go home.

But we didn't learn this over night. We've been together more than 25 years. It takes a while to understand and accept each other's idiosyncrasies, to know when to do things together and when to do stuff separately, and to trust that that is okay. It also takes communication. At two months, you have not had enough time to work around each other's foibles, and by ending the relationship without explanation, you have cut off communication.

Maybe this relationship could work. Maybe it won't. But you'll never know if you don't talk to each other.

It doesn't sound to me like he's an extrovert so much as he just doesn't have much filter.
But I like Dan's advice.

No one is saying you must hang on 'til you're old, bitter and optionless but it sounds like you didn't even try. I've met exactly no one who didn't get on my nerves eventually- and I'm sure they'd say the same about me. Haste is as bad as overcautiousness but regret is much, much worse.

@4 Thank you.

I'm an introvert and I actually prefer to date extroverted people. They help bring me out of my shell and be more social. They get the conversation started and I come in when I'm comfortable. I feel this is one place that opposites can attract!

Gay extrovert here. With my introvert husband for 15 years. Dan and @4 are right. A relationship is not a straitjacket - widen the boundaries so that you can enjoy all the commonalities and both feel comfortable with the ways in which you don't quite mesh. Also, keep talking and finding ways to love each other by bending a bit in each others' direction.

TOBS, is there something encoded in "extrovert" maybe about how he's an asshole or a manchild? Like if he deliberately makes you uncomfortable, or other people, or he's a five-year-old in terms of actual fecklessness or in pawing for constant attention?

Or, is it just plain grating to hear his loud laugh every day?

If you know you can't put up with it, for whatever reason or no reason, then be a mensch and break up with him, yes. But if you're not sure, then it might be helpful to look around the reason a little more. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds likely that you describe the behavior pattern as a handle to talk about a bigger thing. Either something you know about him (hypothetically asshole/immature/etc.) outside of this. Or something that this causes you to project onto him, your expectation of guys like this is that they be something (asshole/whatever) even if he's not.

And from the "five year old" and "when he's ... talking to me like an adult" in the letter, sounds like specifically a maturity issue. (Issue to the letter writer, whether or not third parties would see it the same way.)

This sounds less like "he's gotta change" and more like you have some protocol negotiation to do. He sounds like someone who wants to add positive energy to gatherings and does so by amping himself up. You sound like someone who wants to add positive energy by bonding with people and not necessarily broadcasting it to the room. Your demeanor attracted him to you, and his attracted you to him. Plus sexual compatibility which is an amazing proxy for so much personal compatibility.

If you've set boundaries and he's not respected them, that's a "run". But if you're figuring out your boundaries and he will work with you, that could be awesome.

This is a Seinfeld episode.

If this letter came from a straight woman who couldn't abide her boyfriend's boorish behavior, would the advice have been the same?

Hmm. As well stated as Dan's advice is, I'm not sure I agree. They've been together for two months. Two months should be the peak of the infatuation stage. At two months, if you really love someone, they can do absolutely no wrong in your eyes. At two months, those qualities that are going to be annoying as fuck in two years' time are endearing. If TOBS's boyfriend's brash personality is getting on his nerves now, he's going to want to absolutely throttle the guy six months from now. I'd say he's right to listen to his gut and cut this guy loose now, before they get too invested and before he grows to actually hate him.

I do agree that he owes his ex-boyfriend an explanation for the dumping. But in general, I think TOBS is wise beyond his years for having learned the life lesson "you can't expect people to change, you have to take them as is or leave them."

Lava @2: Oh rubbish, I've only got seven more months to do crazy things and chalk them up to youthful exuberance? Best get on with it then! :)

Totally disparate personalities like this might be able to work (never say never), but in the straight world I'd say, "Find someone that's a better fit. This kind of stuff usually grows into resentment or intolerable irritation as the years roll on." Usually- not always. But Dan knows the gay world better than I, and his point about the smaller potential dating pool is a good one. I'd put a little extra effort into this one - this sounds like something that doesn't have to be a deal breaker...it's not like he grinds kittens into hamburger and eats them. Joint counseling could help LW dial it up a little and boyfriend dial it down a little without causing undo damage to their psyches.

Two months is way too early to be talking about major personality changes in order for a relationship to work. If it doesn't work after two months, it just doesn't work.

...with the caveats from Dan and DonnyKlicious at 18. If your dating pool's already small, that complicates things.

To me, the operative word here is "late 20s". When we're in our teens and early 20s, if the least little thing is wrong, it makes sense to keep looking. There's someone better out there and all relationships are learning experiences. When we're in our late 30s, 40s and beyond, it makes sense to compare the not-perfect relationship you have to loneliness you've experienced and choose on the basis of that. Earlier we're comparing what we have to what we might get. Later, we pretty much know what we have the chances of finding. I'm starting to see late 20s to mid 30s as that time when we make the transition from one to the other. It's when we learn to settle.

LW signs off as Tired Of Being Single. That tells me that he's tired of being single. I wish he hadn't used the introvert/extrovert labels and had instead spoken in terms of behaviors and preferences. TOBS likes more quiet evenings at home filled with sex, one-on-one time and less people, noise and light. His boyfriend likes more nights out filled with people and stimulation. It does sound like they could come to a compromise, even a deal. I'll go to this party and make the best of it you'll watch Downton Abbey with me and pretend you're not suffering through it.

And 15-Nohighway-- This letter does pass the switch the sexes and orientations test. A woman complaining those particular behaviors in a man, the ones you're pronouncing "boorish," would get the same advice.

Aw, I'm a total introvert and hyper people drive me nuts but I feel sorry for the guy that got dumped. He must be so bewildered right now. So Dan is right, you at least owe him an explanation and if HE decides he wants to try to change his behavior you can decide if you want to give him a chance.
It probably depends on how pervasive the problem is. People can change little behaviors that bother others but rarely their entire personality.

(Good on Mr Savage for acknowledging The Divide.) The discrepancy here seems to be between "whose company you enjoy most of the time" from Mr Savage and "it soon became really tiresome to hang out with him" from LW. Which is closer to the truth? My guess is a sort of combination of Mr Rhone and Ms Fan, that LW may have passed up what would have been the best chance to address the issue, but that the couple might well not have been a good enough match anyway.

In response to M? Highway, I suspect Mr Savage would have advised a female LW to remain firm about ending the relationship, on the grounds of Female Socialization. Had LW not presented as a gay male, I'd likey have thought that the first paragraph tilted male, and the rest of the letter female, not in any trans sense, but in the sense that LW seems to have picked up a fair amount of female socialization about interacting with male partners. LW seemed willing at least to attempt to pay the Price of Admission, but has twisted hismelf into a pretzel to avoid suggesting that his partner do anything reciprocal. LW would rather end the relationship for an unspecified reason that deliver criticism that might hurt his partner's feelings, or make him think he were in any way not perfect or needed to change. LW is considering attempting to find a way to make himself love BF's loud personality, but does not see as an option asking for any modification on BF's part. It seems that, similarly to a number of Mr Savage's female LWs and podcast callers, LW doesn't seem to feel entitled to equal consideration in the relationship.

Recalling the conversation of some weeks ago in which people were debating attaching orientations to relationships, I get a feeling that the relationship in the letter was at least heading in the direction of being a straight one, by which I mean that they seemed to be heading into M/F-based gendre roles. Anyone old enough to remember Mr Mordden might recall a more pointed version, the relationship Little Kiwi entered after he grew slightly up, reclaimed his name Virgil Brown, and finally left Dennis Savage. We might get by with assuming that such a relationship would suit BF, but is it really to LW's liking? The letter seems to be hinting not, though I would advise LW to have a good think about it.

#25 crossed #s 19-24. I could see Mr Savage, as Ms Crinoline states, giving a female LW basically the same reply with its Take Yes for an Answer undertones, but I still think there would be a bit more of getting her to be assertive (and perhaps making a virtue of it).

NoHighway @15: Possibly not - because part of Dan's advice is predicated on the fact that gay men have far fewer potential matches to choose from than straight people, so can't afford to be as fussy.

To me, the loud laughing and the party-schmoozing are work-arounds. However, anyone talking loudly about *anything* in a public place is just plain rude and especially so when it's stuff that most people don't want to hear. BF needs to work on that.

TOBS, you really screwed the [person in a furry] pooch [suit] on this one.

People aren't mind readers. You should have told him you had an issue and determined if it was an adjustment he could make. I don't want people putting my business out in the street either

LW, the best way to deal to a partner's public over-sharing involves a pre-planned emergency response, followed by an after-action review. At the moment of embarrassment, deflect with humor. Your possible lines, depending on the context, might include "See why I'm crazy about him!" or "He's here all week folks" or "Wait...where was I when all this was happening!?" all delivered with a big grin to the audience. Your quick comeback will minimize the impact of the blurt. Develop your own set of semi-canned responses, based on the usual scenarios. Key is to act in the moment like you weren't really bothered by what was said, even (especially) if you were. When you get home, though, that's the time for adult one-on-one conversation about how much it hurts your feelings and your pride when he brags about your sex life and kinks, how that betrays your intimacy and makes you question whether he is ready for a serious relationship with you. If he truly cares about you, he'll stop blabbing while still letting his special light shine - and in spite of his loudness, don't you enjoy that quality of light that he brought into your life? There are plenty of extroverts in this world who have learned to keep private things private. Give this guy a second chance to win you, as Dan so charmingly put it. But if these techniques don't start to work after a six-month trial period (remembering that no one can change instantaneously), he's probably beyond reform. You will need to find yourself a more respectful partner.

Also, perhaps consider that the guy is not necessarily Wrong when he is Different. My wife and I, when we got together she would get very angry because I would occasionally tell a ribald joke or speak frankly about our sexlife in front of friends. In some cases she thought it was flirting, in others that I was embarrassing her by admitting we had sex at all. This lead to a few drunken fights.
But in the end it was not a matter of us not going to parties separately, or one of us winning the fight and the other capitulating completely. She has grown much more comfortable about talking about vaguely sexual topics with friends, and I have reigned in my TMI a bit. By meeting in the middle I think we are both better people to be around.
The LW or his guy don't have to do things they know they don't like, but maybe by having someone who is different than you in your life it will expand your horizons a bit.

Just a comment from the more introverted one of my marriage.
First of all, extroverts can be fun! If he really embarrasses you, remember that it's his behavior, not yours. You might ask him please not to share the more intimate details of your sex life with others. It's not too much to ask if he really likes you.
Second of all, after many years together, he's helped me become more extroverted while I've helped him become more introverted. We still are who we are, but we also influence each other in good ways.
I don't think this is a deal breaker. If you really like him, then give him a chance.

Cross post with #31!

There are many dimensions along which we seek compatibility in a partner, including emotional, intellectual, cultural, sexual (and kink), religious, and financial. The odds that you find someone who precisely meets all of your needs (now and for all time) is low, and even then a relationship will only take off if you mutually satisfy their needs.

Whether an introvert-extrovert relationship works well for TOBS is for him to decide, although I think there are good reasons why these pairings are often successful. But assuming that along this dimension TOBS finds that this relationship is far from his ideal, he ultimately needs to think about whether this should really be a deal breaker. His next partner is also going to come up short along some other dimension(s), which TOBS may value more highly. For instance, the perfect introvert who is unable to satisfy his kinks, or who has a vastly different attitude about finances, or who doesn't share many of his interests. At that point, will TOBS rue ending the relationship based on their introversion/extroversion, rather than finding some sort of accommodation?

Introverted and kinky gay male here. I wouldn't have lasted as long as TOBS before pulling the plug, no matter how good the sex was. Right now TOBS is feeling lonely, so the rewards of the relationship are looking better and the irritations seem a more acceptable price of (re)admission. If they get back together, though, there's a decent chance TOBS will end up breaking up with him all over again for the same reasons (and possibly feeling guilty for having wasted both their time). I'm with the commenters who say that a relationship shouldn't be this much work after so short a time.

I am most decidedly an introvert in a nine-year relationship with my wife, an over-the-top extrovert. I love it. She inspires me to try things I never would have otherwise. I have an interesting array of friends I might never have met without her. On the flip side, I yank her down to earth every now and again, enabling her to make more balanced, logical decisions. We balance each other perfectly. What anchors us are core values that are very similar. Not precisely so, and that keeps things interesting. But enough that I know we are traveling similar paths. Be brave, and try this thing. Set boundaries that include sufficient alone time for recovery from socializing. Make sure he understands your communication style (my wife could talk the ears off anyone, and sometimes, I need a BREAK). But being with someone with such a disparate personality is such a great adventure, and I will never regret it. Take care, and cut loose!

I'm the more introverted one in our 30-year marriage. About ten years ago, we were at a party where we were sitting at different tables, out of sight of each other. We were (I thought) privately texting, but I later found out that he was sharing my texts around the table, to much laughter. It wasn't sexting, but I certainly would have phrased a few things differently if I'd known others were reading. We had a long conversation about that over several months because my spouse at first didn't understand why I was upset--and I was VERY upset. But he got it eventually, and he would never do that now. Some extroverts just don't get the concept of privacy, so he may have to take your word for it at first that you're serious about it and it is a deal-breaker. You will probably need to be very specific (and persistent) about where you draw the line-- general discussion of kinks is OK, but specifics of your private life is out of bounds, or whatever. I agree with what pretty much everyone has said, including Dan, talk to him about it and give him a chance. It may genuinely have not occurred to him that this would bother you.

Oh God this guy is so dumb. "I like him and we are completely compatible but he's not 100% perfect in every way." WTF

Hi LW. You said you've been single for a VERY long time and put it in caps, and that you love the feeling of being in a relationship again.

1. Do you love him? (not just love being in a relationship again, but HIM)

2. Reality check. Even if you're not sure it's love, we have a finite life = finite # of chances for anyone to find partners, straight or gay.

3. If you're been single for a LONG time and you've been looking for a partner, maybe you are a difficult / demanding person? I know several eternally single friends (gay) who say they want a relationship, but they are really, really fixed in their ways. No prob. if they like being single, but the ones who aren't happy, they're still looking for Mr. 100% when they are Mr. 75% just like everyone else.

4. As we get older it gets harder to change. Lower expectations or steel yourself that even if he makes a sincere effort he'll keep reverting to old patterns, you'll keep needing to tolerate this or remind him to cut it out. Doesn't mean he doesn't care if he needs reminding.

And 5: As the late great original Ann Landers used to say:

Are you better off with him or without him?

[better off = sum total of all: emotionally, sexually, financially, companionship, kink-alignment, decoration sense, whatevs matters for you] Wish Dan would start asking this of LWs and Savage Love callers, updated to be gender neutral. I've found Ann Landers' question to be the best relationship advice ever.

Hey LavaGirl @2! I'm 67 and my husband of many decades is 68. And we're both having so much fun. He started it with meeting women for sex on Seeking Arrangements. This went on for a few years until I saw that he has actual relationships with some of the women, that it's more than just sex. it occured to me that this was my kind of fun. I got inspired to find nice men on OK Cupid for sex and conversation. He and I have fun together too, both sexually and otherwise. Both of us are in good health and good shape with exercise and eating well. So there are at least 20 more sexy years after 45.

Hey LavaGirl @2! I'm 67 and my husband of many decades is 68. And we're both having so much fun. He started it with meeting women for sex on Seeking Arrangements. This went on for a few years until I saw that he has actual relationships with some of the women, that it's more than just sex. it occured to me that this was my kind of fun. I got inspired to find nice men on OK Cupid for sex and conversation. He and I have fun together too, both sexually and otherwise. Both of us are in good health and good shape with exercise and eating well. So there are at least 20 more sexy years after 45.

Of course megm1 @43. I wasn't suggesting time was up @45. Sounds like you two are having a good time.

For me personally as an introspective introvert that spends endless free time hours writing/painting/playing video games I have to say my attempts to date women who were extroverts failed miserably. They would get bored, want to go "explore, experience and socialize" and would feel nagged to do it when I just wanted to stay home.

My girlfriend now (soon to be wife) is very similar to me. We have a beautiful home filled with art where we spend 98% of our non work time, we independently work on our projects, get together for dinner, cuddling, daily sex, but otherwise quietly leave each other alone. We go on one cool trip a year, go out to eat on occasion but only when we're both eager to do so, that's about it. And I have to say, it's fucking bliss.

So I don't know, maybe some people are more in the middle or can make it work but, from my experience, if you're an introvert, find an introvert. It's a LOT easier.

I am an extrovert married to an introvert, and we have been together for 11 years. I vote that you give him another chance. I have come to enjoy his quiet nature and I revel in the nights we stay home just binge watching shows together, and he admits that he enjoys the fact that I pull him out of his comfort zone and into social situations that he would have avoided on his own. It is important to have nights to yourselves, and that is true no matter what your social type is. We make it work by me having my nights out with friends, and he has his at-home alone times.

Sure, sometimes I wonder what another extrovert would be like, but honestly I would hate having to compete with my spouse for the spotlight. And just like you and this guy, we match on nearly everything else, and that truly is a rare find indeed! You can definitely make it work. No one person can be your complete match in all things, and I think in time you will come to enjoy his boisterous ways, just as my husband has. You may even find yourself tipping into the extroverted pool sometimes, you never know! Please don't give up on a good thing just for this. Being different will help keep things interesting ;-)