Alright, Slog: Bernie or Hillary?

Comments

1
I picked Sanders, though I really don't care, as long as a dem wins. Politicians are politicians... they're all alike in the end.

A Sanders presidency is likely to be highly disappointing to his supporters, as the republicans will gleefully shoot down the vast majority of his proposals and Sanders' supporters for some reason think he can just magically make his proposals happen without any republican interference at all (hint: pretty much everything he's promising isn't going to happen).

Clinton will be disappointing too, for the same reason, but not as much as Sanders, since at least most of Clinton's supporters are more realistic and understand the republican roadblock that the president is going to face.

But whatever... a girl can dream I guess.
2
Settle for Hillary: real change is just too hard!
3
Both of them are infinitely preferable to any of the remaining dipshits on the GOP side.

That said, I wish Clinton hadn't run - I think she's too old at 69, and doesn't excite the left of the party (obviously). She sucked up all the air in the room, and scared off any other candidates to the point where Sanders said "WTF, somebody's got to oppose her - I guess I'll become a Democrat."
4
Real change requires a Congress to support it... And with the clever gerrymandering the R's have done over the last twenty years, the Dems aren't going to get a remotely friendly Congress for the next fifty. Every Congress will do just like this one has done; deny or sabotage anything the president puts forward. In the off chance the R's beat the blue islands, they'll use those four years to undo everything they can.
5
@4 -- You beat me to it (real change requires retaking Congress). Although I don't agree with your overall assessment. It seems far more realistic to take back the house than it does to have a Socialist Jew (born in Brooklyn no less) become President. Yes, the Republicans have gerrymandered the hell out of the districts, but that can easily backfire. You just need a lot more Democrats, and a lot more Democrats showing up. I hope all the hard working Bernie supporters don't give up after they lose (and they will lose -- sorry). I hope they refocus their efforts towards taking the House (and Senate and White House).
6
I'm Ready To Settle, If I Have To!™
7
@3 -- Agreed. I think she has too much baggage (some of which actually her husband's) to be a great candidate. Fortunately, as you said, the Republican party is so fucked up that only loons are running now (now we know why they nominated Romney last time).

It is tough to tell how she really feels -- I think the policy differences between the candidates are not as big as they seem (http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/hilla…). She is, as @1 said, just a lot more pragmatic. Some of that pragmatism may include running to the right to get elected, but trying to run as far to the left as possible once elected. Unless Congress changes (and we get a left wing Congress) it really doesn't matter -- she will be to the left of them (hell, Nixon is to the left of the current House -- even Reagan is to the left of them).
8
From a policy perspective, it's a moderate who plays politics-as-usual versus a far-left idealist who hasn't shown he can drive consensus around his platform.

But pragmatically, I really don't like political dynasties and overt oligarchies. So I picked Sanders.
9
Frankly, I don't care - I'm going to vote for the Democratic nominee, whoever it is - either would be orders of magnitude better than Trump, Cruz, or Rubio.
10
Here's your real change: the Supreme Court. Of course if Scalia is replaced by someone that Obama/Sanders/Clinton nominates, that will be a massive shift of the Court to the left. Now here's the scary part: if a Republican wins in November, then Justices Ginsburg, Kennedy, and Breyer will have to wait until January 20th, 2021 in order to retire or die, when they will be 87, 84, and 82 years old, respectively. Imagine how far to the *right* the court would move if they got replaced by a Republican president. THAT is what November is about: a huge potential shift in labor rights, voting rights, civil rights, environmental regulations, health care, corporate regulations, etc., all without a change in the Republican-controlled House.
11
"Abandon All Hope And Vote Hillary!"
12
Why is Hillary's age being called out when Bernie is 74? It seems like he's way too old to be running if 69 is too old.
13
Replacing Scalia makes me want to gamble w/ the nomination less (make darn sure it is a D making the nomination). While I believe there is a bigger difference in how the federal budget would be spent between Bernie and Hillary than between Hillary and Jeb (say) I have no doubt Hillary would pick the right SC justices and that will last longer than changes in executive branch policy.
14
I voted Bernie, but I'm deeply aware that it's entirely possible Hillary will get more accomplished simply because she knows where the dirt is and isn't afraid to exploit it. Not admirable by any means, but considering our government right now, as you say, pragmatic.
15
"We Need More War! Vote Hillary!" She's never seen a war she doesn't want to jump into!!
16
Vote for EvilCorp - Vote Hillary!
17
@12: that was implied - Sanders will be 75 before the election. they are both too old.

fuck, Trump is too old. he turns 70 in june. you just can't tell because of the dyed hair.

that leaves the 2 worst candidates in their young and vigourous 40s.
18
@12- Because Max kept harping on Sander's age until he got called on it. He's seriously agist.
19
Sanders/Warren
20
I voted Bernie. To me it's a no-brainer. He's clean and he's right on all the issues, not just the substance but the process too. We're not too good for nice things.

The Republican Party's whole reason for being is bending over for Wall Street, plus rolling back social progress in their spare time to feed their base. Of course Hillary's better than them: for her, bending over for banks is just a means to an end. But anybody who thinks she'll do better with the Republicans because she's more -corrupt- conservative or "pragmatic" hasn't been watching in this century. The GOP's not going to play ball with any Democrat. They're not even playing ball with people who used to be right-wing Republicans ten years ago. The slogan is wrong: bitch didn't really get shit done in one term as the senator from 9/11 or at the State Department. So while I'll obviously vote for her in the general if it comes to that (won't canvass or give money the way I have to Bernie--she doesn't need me) I'm going with my conscience in the primary.
21
Even if the majority of us caucus for Bernie, we know the WA Democratic party elite will steal all almost all the delegates and give them to Hillary. Fuck caucases, Fuck establishment politicians, fuck conventions, fuck the Electoral College, and fuck the SCOTUS that stole the election from Al Gore and gave it to George W. Bush. It's hard to be an engage, productive citizen under a crazy establishment political regime like this. Our system of government has degenerated into an oligarchy.

We could take strides in fixing this by having open primaries, open presidential elections and eliminating the conventions, the electoral college and any role whatsoever by SCOTUS in deciding the outcome of national elections.
23
It's the corruption stupid. That's why I am supporting Bernie. If you want more oligarchy, neo-liberal wars and the status quo, then Hilary is your candidate.
24
Why didn't you include "undecided"?