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But really this boils down to "people are crazy". The artist is right on, but in a world where he who yells loudest wins, what did you expect?
Most straight male geeks are only geeks because they were picked last at baseball and had knack for Dungeons and Dragons, not because of some moral superiority, as they would have you believe. Their single-mindedness can be so extreme that they never bother to question their beliefs, much like the dumb christian jock in high school.
They are opposite sides of the same white privileged male coin. Considering that, the homophobic taunts on Xbox live and the demeaning of women on blogs makes a whole lot more sense.
Being talented and smart and artistic makes you sexier. It's not sexist for a straight guy, albeit and idiot straight guy to be sexually attracted to a woman because she does something cool.
Maybe he's a jerk for being so blunt about it, but it's not sexist to want to fuck someone because you like what they do.
I'd wager girlgeek reactions to gender issues in comics are waaaaaaaay better (and sometimes involve near-photorealistic homoerotic art)
It's funny because it's true.
Before you post, some bullshit about equality or rights or something, just stop, breathe deeply and find the courage to walk away.
Hey Paul, 9/11 probably didn't go down exactly the way the government said it did. Can I get a full-blown article about my insanity now? That's the kind of trolling you're good at.
Not to be a smart ass, but I've seen girls fawn over Geoff Johns. Maybe it's his fixation on rings.
but... perhaps its because women know better than to offer up unsolicited, tasteless "compliments" especially in the context of somebody's craft. groupies don't approach male musicians and out of nowhere say, "i want to fuck you!!!!!!" without some sort of context. but then again, women receive daily doses of unwanted unwelcomed sexual attention so they tend to be a bit smarter about boundaries and context.
I'm female and I've used it many times as a compliment toward men, for various reasons. To like something someone has produced SO MUCH that you would bear their children because of it is obvious hyperbole about how much you like that thing. Not how much you want to bone the person who made it.
I also think that women who go on to use such small (perceived) insults as a jumping point into an argument about "the possibility that perhaps... women could be treated a little more like, you know, humans" really aren't helping the feminist cause. That kind of reactionary, bitter and overgeneralized response really doesn't help distance feminists from the typical stereotypes. It's like when PETA loses their shit over someone killing a beetle, and vegetarians everywhere collectively sigh.
It's a fairly common reaction from all fans to writers, comic artists, and everything.
And musicians too.
Regardless of gender.
I think Shulz made a pretty funny comment about what happens when people online talk about sexism though, from the female point of view.
At least it's not K/S fanfic.
I think I'm confused because if a guy said he wanted to fuck me because he liked my comic, I would think that was awesome. But I'm a guy so I don't live in the same sexual-political circumstances. I can definitely see how it would be threatening and/or discouraging.
I would never say anything like that in that context in person or online because it would be uncouth.
I'm hoping one day that even progressives will discover women are the equals of men and not delicate flowers to be protected from the cruel world.
Then they'll stop impeding equality as badly as the conservatives are.
I mean, when I say stuff that other people take offense to, and I didn't mean to offend, I apologise.
sorry
There's a good broad point to be made here, but this comic is a terrible argument for it.
Who knows, he may have apologized.
Since these are public forums and discussions, he very well could have apologized, while other people took up the flame of indignation.
Seeing pictures of her made me want to have her babies.
Is the issue then with the about boundaries? A woman has every much a right to find Neil Gaiman sexy, as I have, say, to think Sylvia Plath was a hottie. I wouldn't have sent her a letter explaining exactly how this makes me want to fuck her - but it's probably too late for that now, and illegal anyways.
You see this same shit coming up with talk about cat-calling, exactly. Guys will get all riled up and say "But I would never say something disgusting or threatening to a woman!" Well unfortunately dudes, other men will. There's a reason why we ladies get our guard up when a guy says "HEY LOOKIN GOOD", it's because we never know if he is one of the ones who will berate us for ignoring him, try to grab us, follow us for the next 10 blocks, etc. Maybe Kate Beaton has often been stalked online by dudes who start out by making sexualized compliments like "Have my babies"?
This shit is just not as innocuous as you think it is, guys. It would be great if we lived in a world where you could just toss out whatever "edgy, funny, sexy" compliment you wanted, entirely devoid of the context of a world in which women are constantly evaluated according to our appearances to the exclusion of our other qualities - and in which there is a fine line between an appreciative smile and a predatory leer. But we don't live in that world. So check yourselves before you creep out your favorite lady comics creators (&c.) please.
http://www.gabbysplayhouse.com/?page_id=…
I wish more SLOG guys were as aware as Gabby is.
I wish more SLOG guys were as aware as Gabby is.
I'm also baffled by the title. "making comics in order to be sexually attractive"? No one thinks that's her primary motivation for making the comic; it's just that making the comic does in fact make her more sexually attractive. Still, the guy in the comic does need to work on his approach.
I too am aware of the general harmlessness "I want your babies", but again, I don't see saying it to someone as my complete and utter right.
This isn't only a sexual thing; it's a general fame thing. A lot of people have easy boundaries when it comes to accepting various forms of adulation; some people feel uncomfortable having to learn how to deal with hundreds of internet-stranger fans, and need a certain level of decorum to cope.
Chick drummers and bass players. Hot, right?
"So attractive that you don't even think, you just express how you feel."
I don't get it. So, because Kate Beaton's fans feel pure emotion, it's OK for them to express it the way THEY want, but when Kate Beaton wants to respond in a way based on HER pure emotion, it's her not being able to "handle" the situation.
She did handle. She handled by responding to the comment, and sharing her position. "Handling" is not, by definition, just accepting a situation. That a person says to her "I want your babies" is not some kind of absolute truth of the cosmos or scientific fact of nature that she can't fight; she can ask them not to say that, and that is her right.
Also, when you're a fan and offer YOUR commentary, why don't the same strings attach? If an author offering her work to the public has a responsibility to respect some fans' tics and quirks in expressing their sexual attraction, maybe those fans should try to consider her tics and quirks if they love her so much. They are, after all, benefiting from free entertainment; they owe her as much as she owes them.
Besides, as others have stated, expressing admiration for a person's accomplishments and/or abilities with sexuality is a time-honored tradition for women toward men. Is that sexist now too? Or is it only sexist when it's the other way around?
I don't get it.
I dunno, is it too hard to judge on a case-by-case basis? An individual basis?
Am I supposed to be defining my personal comfort level by what other women have been doing? Am I ruining the women's united front!? Oh shit. Sorry! Is there a number I should call and check to see if something is sexist before I can feel uncomfortable?
That is all.
That said, I think that Gabby Schulz's comic is representative of a larger trend than just the incident between Kate Beaton and some random internet fan. It's more about a larger internet trend, where someone denies that a sexist comment is sexist, and then uses the opinions of their sexist allies (male and female) to back them up.
This can all be understood by a simple review of the two most fundamental facts regarding the human condition:
1) Men are pigs.
2) Women are psychotic.
Here endeth the lesson.
But being sexually desired for any reason (appearance, accomplishments, whatever) IS being treated like a human.
People. Are. Dumbfucks.
According to the links, the original comment was "I want to marry you and have your babies", which is a comment I see a lot on livejournal, particularly in fanfic communities. It's generally said by women, to women, as an indicator of how awesome they believe the fanfic/post/art/whatever is. It's generally meant to be complimentary, and I've never heard a man utter it, since they lack the appropriate equipment to carry babies. Hell, the very phrasing suggests that the person saying it possesses a uterus. It was invented as a phrase that was explicitly meant to be used by women and complimentary of women.
I'm not saying that she doesn't have a point, or that sexism doesn't negatively impact female creators, but still...er, yeah. Maybe she should have looked up the phrase first.
Sources:
http://skywaterblue.livejournal.com/9805…
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.ph…
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.ph…
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/201…
It's more than a little silly to compare this kind of appreciation to a catcall or sexual harassment. If the artist has a problem with it, she has the right to ask her fans not to use it, and they should respect her wishes, but it's not some sort of universal standard, nor is it an example of sexism.
http://www.gabbysplayhouse.com/?p=1444
"Most of all, thank you for replicating and thus validating my own comic’s meager thesis to an exponent higher than anyone could have ever deliberately orchestrated. If anyone out there was concerned as to the general health of sexism, misogyny, and general denseness in our world today, hopefully this chunk of pixels may stand as proof that, yeah, actually, that stuff is out there, doing its creepy, hateful, jurassic dance of dumb."
"BUT ALSO, I am very happy to report that these comments are also chock full of real-life dudes who actually, vocally are down with the concept that women are humans! This is an assurance I, for one, could not possibly hear enough, these dark, post-feminist days."
Me, either! If you're out there, I'd LOVE to know where just such guys are in Seattle. They certainly seem far and few between.
Thank you.