The Church of Hate

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I am sure there are some white supremist groups...but I have a hard time believing that it is as bad as Leonard makes it out to be. Conveniently and as usual, there is no press about any non-white extremist groups such as La Raza, Mecha and various black supremist groups. Why?
Because it is not politically correct of course.

All extremist groups need to be stopped but we should really be fair and realistic about it while giving equal press to various racist groups despite how popular it is to do so.

archyis on July 1, 2009 at 3:17 PM

No, jackass, because those groups don't have a body count. White supremacist groups, in addition to numerous individual killings, are responsible for the second-biggest act of terror on American soil, ever. Nothing 'politically correct' about it.

Zioncheck on July 1, 2009 at 8:08 PM

I didn't know that La Raza and Mecha were white supremacist groups.

The More You Know ====*

Baconcat on July 1, 2009 at 10:48 PM

No need for name calling...you really think the other groups have no body count? You can't really be that naive can you? Oh wait, it is Seattle so it is possible. :-P

The press won't call the other groups racist...but if you did some online research and pulled your head out of your ass, you would see that many of the gangs are themselves racist but perhaps not quite as organized. There are many stories of gangs (like MS13) attacking specific races. If you doubt that the gangs are themselves racist why don't you go try to join MS13 or some crip set and then let me know how accepted you are.

La Raza and Mecha are not white supremist groups...they are Mexican Supremist Groups. They are organized groups that have the goal of taking back the southwest US. The motto of La Raza is "“Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada" which translates to "For the race, everything. Outside of the race, nothing.” That sounds pretty open minded and loving, eh? And this La Raza group gets political candidates to come pander to them strangely enough...and I am speaking of both right and left wing nuts.

archyis on July 2, 2009 at 9:03 AM

And who was it that killed the Army recruiter. I don't believe it was a white supremecist

rongalap on July 2, 2009 at 9:57 AM

Yeah, it was one of those dirty white suprmecists that killed the Army recruiter ! uh-uh Sure it was. He was only posing as a black muslim as a joke.

rongalap on July 2, 2009 at 10:06 AM

MS13 has no connection to La Raza and Mecha. It is a youth gang with roots in El Salvador, not Mexico by the way. Why the La Raza movement may have some exclusivist and classist elements, to it "La Raza" in the context of this movement, which was born out of the Chicano workers rights movements, means "the people" in the sense of the working classes and under-represented members of society. If you ever spent some time at the community service center El Centro de la Raza on Beacon Hill you would see that though much of what they do is celebrate the Latino Heritage of its founders and the Latino community, it serves equally people of all "races" including white people. I've never known there to be any murders connected with La Raza or Mecha movements and linking MS13 to these movements just because it's membership is comprised as Latino an example of the height of ignorance. I can understand if you have critisisms of the La Raza movement or MechA, but I can't see how you would put them on par with Aryan Nation, the KKK or MS13.

Ceaselessbecoming on July 2, 2009 at 11:16 AM

MS13 has no connection to La Raza and Mecha. It is a youth gang with roots in El Salvador, not Mexico by the way. Why the La Raza movement may have some exclusivist and classist elements, to it "La Raza" in the context of this movement, which was born out of the Chicano workers rights movements, means "the people" in the sense of the working classes and under-represented members of society. If you ever spent some time at the community service center El Centro de la Raza on Beacon Hill you would see that though much of what they do is celebrate the Latino heritage of its founders and the Latino community, it serves equally people of all "races" including white people. I've never known there to be any murders connected with La Raza or Mecha movements and linking MS13 to these movements just because it's membership is comprised of latinos is an example of the height of ignorance. I can understand if you have criticisms of the La Raza movement or MechA, but I can't see how you would put them on par with Aryan Nation, the KKK or MS13.

Ceaselessbecoming on July 2, 2009 at 11:24 AM

MS13 has no connection to La Raza and Mecha. It is a youth gang with roots in El Salvador, not Mexico by the way. Why the La Raza movement may have some exclusivist and classist elements, to it "La Raza" in the context of this movement, which was born out of the Chicano workers rights movements, means "the people" in the sense of the working classes and under-represented members of society. If you ever spent some time at the community service center El Centro de la Raza on Beacon Hill you would see that though much of what they do is celebrate the Latino heritage of its founders and the Latino community, it serves equally people of all "races" including white people. I've never known there to be any murders connected with La Raza or Mecha movements and linking MS13 to these movements just because it's membership is comprised of latinos is an example of the height of ignorance. I can understand if you have criticisms of the La Raza movement or MechA, but I can't see how you would put them on par with Aryan Nation, the KKK or MS13

Ceaselessbecoming on July 2, 2009 at 11:25 AM

Good post...so good it beared repeating! :-P

I never said MS13 was a mexican group not did I link them together with Mecha or La Raza...in fact they were in separate paragraphs. I was just throwing out a bunch of examples of groups we collectively ignore that may be of interest to people who want to know about all of the "race oriented" groups (violent or not) and not just the ones it is cool today to highlight.

Most street gangs are racist gangs and their cumulative damage and violence is on par with the most prolific whack job white surpremist group. Just because these gangs are not very organized and only commit one violent crime at a time doesn't mean it doesn't add up to a large quantity.

archyis on July 2, 2009 at 12:50 PM

While race-related gangs crimes happen all too often, few of them are linked to powerful political parties. MS 13 may have a nation-wide presence, but it's killings tend to be "business" oriented, not "kill the xxxxgroup" oriented.
The white-supremacist whackjobs, on the other hand, are both. They have fellow-travelers in many parts of the government, even if few are quite so blatant about it.
Also, the idea that "good christian people" can end up like these guys is really scary to other "good, christian people".

BakerB on July 3, 2009 at 10:48 AM

@11 - "While race-related gangs crimes happen all too often, few of them are linked to powerful political parties." Well said Baker 8.

Why is it that white people--I am white--so often react to accounts of white supremacists activity w/ a "they [other racial/ethnic groups] do it too?"

I'm no expert on gang activity and i doubt the other posters are either, but I don't recall that any Crips holding public office--feel free to correct me.

know-it-all on July 4, 2009 at 8:25 AM

typo. I meant to say: "I don't recall any Crips holding public office."

know-it-all on July 4, 2009 at 8:27 AM

Yeah--and another bunch of clueless "tea party" radicals protested on the northern outskirts of Bellingham the other day. Most likely, more than half of them were completely ignorant as usual about what they're even protesting, and unconcerned as to why.

Stop the hatred!!

on July 5, 2009 at 5:40 AM

@12: SPOT ON!!!!!

on July 5, 2009 at 5:42 AM

HEY!! HERE'S an idea:

WHY don't we round up all the right-wing Republican pig neofascist "tea party" pushers, banish them to an uninhibited island somewhere, like on "Survivor"....or, better YET--since they're supposedly SO in love with the Holy Land...ship 'em all off one-way to the Middle East--deplete 'em of the precious natural resources they're all so greedily out to destroy---and make 'em play 'survival of the fittest'?

I'll bet they'd become extinct within the next two days.
Problem solved!

I personally wouldn't mind seeing Rush Limbaugh's sorry fat ass FAIL!

Aaaaaaaannnnnnnd....while we're at it, why did Sarah Palin suddenly announce her resignation from her elected office as Governor of Alaska? She sold the film rights to CBS?

GOD---I guess I'm too getting fuckin' ornery for my old age!

on July 5, 2009 at 6:00 AM

And now for the obvious:

When David Duke, the former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan has held office within the last 10-15 years (don't know exact dates here), it is "that bad."

When there are documented assasination plans for President Obama--however, clumsy and impotent--because he's black, it is "that bad."

When white people engage in less obvious forms of racism on a daily basis, say for example refusing to acknowledge the threat posed by white supremacists groups, as well as more blatant racism, it will continue to be "that bad," and will likely get worse.

I'm tired of the constant moaning about political correctness every fucking time someone calls out racism. It's so empty. Honestly, I don't know what the fuck it means beyond people getting thinking they're being penalized for expressing their opinion. Having your opinion challenged is part of discussion. Yes, there are organized gangs within various racial/ethnic groups. By why should their existence preclude acknowledging that white supremacy is alive and well?

know-it-all on July 5, 2009 at 9:01 AM

can we all just agree that, yeah, racism is bad mmkay, there's racist/gang violence amongst every race, but the fucking problem DISCUSSED IN THIS BOOK, is the white supremacists that can and do hold political power, and can and will do very real damage?

franky on July 7, 2009 at 8:25 AM

Know-it-all: 'Why is it that white people ... so often react to accounts of white supremacists activity w/ a "they [other racial/ethnic groups] do it too?" '

The main reason is simply that, in America, one of the stereotypes of whites is that they are racists. Ask anyone (white, latino, NA, black, asian) in America to close their eyes & visualize a racist, the overwhelming majority will see a white person. It seems to me that is where 'archyis' is coming from, although his/her anger towards MechA & La Raza is a bit misplaced & useless.

While I do not agree w/ the Poor Me crowd's definition of "Power + Prejudice = Racism" (which means, among other things, that to be free of racsim, one must be powerless, a very stupid attitude), the power dynamic is very important to consider while discussing bigotry. [I prefer the term bigotry, as hate can be based on any trait, not necessarily genetic heritage.] And not just who holds political or financial power, but also how those bigots consider themselves in terms of power. It is a psychological truth that bigots all share feelings of inferiority and persecution, and fixate on a chosen group as a source of those feelings.

Yes, there are bigots in every population, ethnicity, religion, it is worldwide and many of the bigots use bigotry as a justification for their hatred (Robert Mugabe comes to mind.) It is a very dangerous philosophy, but it has different levels. Yes, of course, it should not be tolerated in any form. But there *are* different levels of danger among the various groups. Street gangs of whatever type are dangerous, whether they are bigots or not. However, I am not so worried about them, as I know they have a powerful enemy in the various police & law enforcement groups in this countr. There is an established wall from our society that keeps me (relatively) safe from them. I have a much greater concern for white supremacists, because I know that while not every cop agrees w/ these yahoos, there is enough sympathy in the many different police forces around the country (and this is proven on a regular basis: RIP Oscar Grant) that the social wall between me & them is a bit porous.

Of even greater concern are the politicians and demagogues who (whether they're bigots or not) actively seek out the votes & support of the white bigots. While not all Republicans are bigots, nearly every white bigot is Republican (and those who aren't feel the GOP is full of commies.) Street gangs and thugs who live in the woods are nothing compared to those who form policy and make laws to succor and strengthen the white bigots in this country. That's the part of the book review that sparked my interest. When the white supremacists have friends in Congress, they are obviously Public Threat #1.

Yes, of course, Jews & Blacks & everyone else of all stripes can be bigots. And yes, of course, bigotry should never be tolerated. We all have choices to make in how we fight it: do you confront the ranter on the street armed w/ a sign? the jerk w/ a car full of ammunition? or the person influencing an entire military and social structure? Each one is a valid target, but if you go for the street crazy, don't forget the chaplains organizing in the US Army. And give support to the people who take on the big guns.

on July 7, 2009 at 2:33 PM

Well, if you wanted to be completely grammatically correct, the term would be "racialism," not racism. Just sayin'

presently out on July 7, 2009 at 4:44 PM

"Most street gangs are racist gangs and their cumulative damage and violence is on par with the most prolific whack job white surpremist [sic]group."

...so why is it most victims of black gangs are black, Mexican gangs Mexican, Russian gangs Russian, Chinese gangs Chinese, Native gangs Native, etc?

For that matter, when's the last time you heard of any of these gangs seeking out and killing members of other races/ethnicities for sheer pleasure and no economic benefit?

Maybe I listened to my headphones too loud in my youth, maybe the shooting was too loud, but I must have missed when that guy who opened fire at the Holocaust Museum shouted "It ain't personal, black buddy, it's just all about the benjamins!"

on July 7, 2009 at 8:21 PM

@18 - That would be my point. Whenever there's a discussion about white supremacy, defensive responses that amount to: "Well they [other racial groups] do it too" ensue. I think those defenses function to evade the issue.

@19 - Thanks for responding to my post. You say; "The main reason is simply that, in America, one of the stereotypes of whites is that they are racists."

I don't agree. I think it's more of a paradox. I think that most white people don't want to be racist and want to believe that racism is over. When confronted by racism they/we experience a knee-jerk denial response; we'd rather believe that it's perpetrated by some fringe groups but it's not that simple. The potential to be racists exists in all of us--here though I'll only speak about white people since I am one. If we deny it exists, we're more likely to perpetrate it. Although it's not the same as committing an act of violence or slinging racial epithets, any refusal to acknowledge racism is in and of itself racist.

@19 - There's more to your post that I don't have time to read closely as I've got to get ready for work. Maybe later.

know-it-all on July 8, 2009 at 8:00 AM

I should say: the potential to be racist exists in all white people as I can't speak for other groups since I am white.

know-it-all on July 8, 2009 at 8:03 AM

@archyis

First of all, "La Raza" is a word, not a group. It means "the people" or "the community.

Assuming that you mean the National Council de la Raza (NCLR), that is not even remotely a supremacist group. You might as well call the NAACP an extremist supremacy group (hint: they're not one either).

And NCLR has never used the motto you mentioned, despite people saying so. They outright rejected it in a response to ignoramus congressman Charlie Norwood: http://www.nclr.org/content/viewpoints/d…
(Also some info on the word "La Raza" in there.)

The slogan you mention is possibly associated with Mecha, but there's not much to suggest it's used by them. Their official slogan is "La Union Hace La Fuerza" - unity makes strength.

Now MEChA might have something of a nationalist or separatist element (especially in tha past), but their stated purpose only goes as far as "liberating aztlan", which doesn't necessarily mean chicano nationalism, though I'm sure there *is* some of that in the group--it's a student group, after all. Incidentally, most of what they do is encouraging high school and college attendance, and all that empowerment sort of stuff. That doesn't exactly sound like a hardline supremacist organization to me.

Lumping those groups into a supposed hispanic supremacy movement by bringing in unrelated violent groups seems disingenuous or politically motivated, if not ignorant. And focusing on white supremacy doesn't strike me as being necssarily done out of political correctness. Who knows why the author chose this topic--but these are dangerous groups and it's a topical subject, so I don't fault the choice, personally.

hexalm on July 8, 2009 at 10:45 AM

I'd think the film Jimmy and Judy would be a good watch in relation to this topic.
What is apparent or intuitive about white supremacists is that they are far more dangerous and necessary of attention than any other racial superiority group. Why? Past history, WWII, popular media, popular conception... And just because you can point your finger at a wolf in the shadow doesn't mean that the bear in front of you is less dangerous. Conservatives are stupid.
Reality, however, is that I don't know whether anyone can predict the rise and coalescence of a significant hate action without creating a dystopian information state. Imagine the hell of having every action constantly watched and monitored. So in lieu of being afraid of things you can't predict, arm yourself for bear metaphorically and be prepared.

on July 10, 2009 at 6:16 PM

10: Way to backpedal. You call La Raza an extremist group, somebody argues that they (La Raza) aren't because they don't have a body count, and you answer back by mentioning that gangs like MS13 do have a body count. Then, in the very next paragraph, you come to the conclusion that La Raza is a supremacist group.

How is that NOT linking them? You do know that mentioning "evidence" in one paragraph, and a conclusion in the next, does count as a link between the two, right? The fact that they're separate paragraphs doesn't take away the obvious line of thought that you had going between them. Unless you want us all to think it's just a big coincidence that you happened to shoot off on a wild, unrelated ADD tangent about MS13 in the middle of an argument about La Raza. If you weren't linking them, why even mention MS13 at all if you're responding to someone's claim that LA RAZA is not violent?

You fucked up and linked to totally unrelated organizations in order to make a bogus point about an organization you know nothing about (except that their title is something in Spanish, and that can't be good!). Own up to it.

Bonefish on July 13, 2009 at 12:26 PM

Edit: that's "TWO" unrelated organizations. I need to tap my "W's" harder.

Bonefish on July 13, 2009 at 12:29 PM

you guys are idiots. Japanese people have killed based on race tons of times remember WW2 anyone? when japan invaded china and started having hunting season on the people of china? Japs are also notorious for hating blacks. The only reason White supremists are gaining such notority over here is because white supremicists are more common over here. due LARGLY to the fact that the pop is mainly WHITE. Get off your high horses and realise that the US is not something special, everywhere has its on sense of racism.

also, the KKK is now a religion based on the fact that races should not interbreed, not some racist kill everyone group.

on October 1, 2009 at 5:33 AM

The Church of Hate

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