City Aug 10, 2022 at 5:05 pm

Welcome to the Age of the Green Deterent

How to grow an anti-homeless garden. Charles Mudede

Comments

1

It’s like hippies vs the unhoused and the virtue signal is scrambled. Perhaps those plucky farmers will recapture green cover we’re losing to housing development, grow some food in these inflationary times, and beautify our streets. All boxes checked!

3

@1
Not sure it would be a good idea to eat any vegetables grown in the toxic soil left behind at one of these meth-camps.

4

Why does Charles continually imply homelessness is a byproduct of capitalism?. I’ve been to socialist and communist countries and I’m here to tell you there are homeless there as well.

5

Bus them to Texas!

6

@4

Because homelessness in America is a byproduct of American capitalism.

I understand these N 91st street residents not wanting tents outside their houses, but they're spending thousands to essentially create hostile architecture in the form of plants. Better than eco-blocks at least.

Side note, Joel Moreno from KOMO once interviewed me at 12th and Jackson; I was surprised that he let me speak critically of his employer and how crime/homelessness is approached by Seattle media and municipal gov.... only to watch the news report and see my quotes diced up conveniently for the KOMO agenda.

8

@6 do you honestly believe that if we were a socialist or Marxist country as Charles would prefer there would be less or no homeless? I invite you to travel the world my friend.

9

I’m guessing Charles has never used online translation scripts for books? If it wasn’t translated into English than the book was probably garbage reading. Charles had a lot of copy and pasted reposting of socialist propaganda. Was he stoned while writing this article? It’s very jumbled.

10

@4: Why does Charles continually imply homelessness is a byproduct of capitalism?

Because when faced with complex problems, humans tend to pluck their favorite reason/villain from the bunch and focus on that. For Charles, its capitalism.

11

Since the trolls playing coy never say exactly where and when they went anywhere and made their supposed earth shattering observations on socialism allow me.

Being in a social democracy right now, Denmark, there are very, very few homeless. Are there street people? Yes. Are there “homeless” to the degree there are in America? No. There are not.

The real issue here is not necessarily socialism vs. Capitalism per se, since there isn’t a pure form. But comparable GDP to homelessness. The US simply has no excuse. If “capitalism” is so wonderfully perfect and successful then with US GDP there should be very very few impoverished or homeless. But there are many.

Anyway. We should say “Unsheltered.” Because different countries define it differently. Most the EU over counts it’s unsheltered populations.

Most of the western EU and Scandinavia classifies anyone with out permanent stable shelter as homeless. However, unlike the US, they provide shelter for pretty much anyone. So they are rarely sleeping on the streets though it happens. Just not to the callous degree as in the US.

And. By our definition these people are not homeless. And also due to the recent refugee crisis (which some nations include as “homeless”) EU and Scandinavian numbers are greatly inflated (FI Sweden). However in Europe’s only real “socialist democracy,” and it’s still capitalist, btw with a robust market economy, Denmark homelessness is ~11 per 10k. While the US, which is notorious for vastly undercounting, is 18 per 10k. It’s probably twice that.

So. No. The US has a horrific holes mess problem. Or you shitbags wouldn’t be here every day squealing about how you want to drive them out with fire hoses.

Anyway this is easily backed up by facts and cites and statistics readily accessible to one and all. The US of all the developed wealthy western OEDC democratic nations has the one of the highest homeless populations.

The UK which is of course, a near feudal capitalist state in regards to homelessness compared to the EU, and like the US does very little compared to the EU and Scandinavia, has the highest rate in Western Europe at over 50 per 10k.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population

China, which has a high “unsheltered” population is actually a State Capitalist nation only lead by a quasi Marxist totalitarian party. So comparing ourselves to totalitarian state is pretty stupid. But it’s also a market economy with private property, profit, etc. so whatever rhetorical trick you want us it to somehow claim socialism is just as bad… well, you just don’t really have a case here. Because there is no pure Marxist or socialist state state and there never has been one. And China provides public shelter to the majority of its homeless regardless. But at over a billion people that’s not an easy ask even for totalitarians.

12

Capitalism is not the source of homelessness.

I would suggest, perhaps, mental illness might be the singular largest cause, followed by substance abuse and then a simple lack of motivation to get off one's backside and be productive..............

No Capitalism doesn't exclude anybody, in fact, it includes everybody and invites them to work, be productive and participate in the economy/society to the best of their ability or level by choice.... and then our government, for the people, by the people allocates a vast, vast, vast array of social welfare programs and handouts to as a soothing balm for those who can't or feel they are marginalized, have diversity issues, sexual orientation inequality, racial disparity, religious discriminations, heat disparity, educational disparity, feeilngs of disparity (please forgive me if I missed anybody)

13

Oh yes, on the guerilla gardening... I'm for it. Much better than ecology blocks!

14

Any lawn in Seattle is a capitalist abuse of land and anyone who replants it is ok in my book.

15

Homelessness is driven by the cost of housing, which is a function of the regional economy and hyperlocal control over where housing gets built, driven mostly by homeonwners' concern about its impact on property values. It's possible work around these problems without restructuring our country's entire economic model, but there is greater political incentive to maintain the status quo than to risk upsetting voters. The problem isn't capitalism itself -- capitalism and effective housing policy can peacefully co-exist -- but it's absolutely a function of economic and political choices we make, aka how we choose to apply capitalism to address housing at the local level.

Houston TX of all places has housed 25K people over the last decade by building homes and putting people in them with no strings attached. In theory this model could be applied anywhere in the US but it requires buy-in from the entire community. From the nyt article:

"Houston has gotten this far by teaming with county agencies and persuading scores of local service providers, corporations and charitable nonprofits — organizations that often bicker and compete with one another — to row in unison. Together, they’ve gone all in on “housing first,” a practice, supported by decades of research, that moves the most vulnerable people straight from the streets into apartments, not into shelters, and without first requiring them to wean themselves off drugs or complete a 12-step program or find God or a job."

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ucla-anderson-forecast-20180613-story.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/07/03/inflation-homeless-rent-housing/
https://www.planetizen.com/news/2022/06/117494-how-houston-eliminating-chronic-homelessness
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/14/headway/houston-homeless-people.html

16

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/08/economy/construction-worker-shortage/index.html

Piling on and offering what I choose to focus on and yammer about regarding this issue: construction labor shortage. How much impact has decades of "college for everyone" had on housing inventory? Even if a city were to upzone and allow all sorts of housing, and find a pot of gold to pay for it all - WHO is going to build it? How many people out there got degrees in sociology or business administration instead of learning a trade?

17

@7:

Go back to counting bullet-riddled dead bodies, you worthless fuck.

18

Well, I sure hope those enterprising residents received a Street Use Permit from the City for their experiment in passive-aggressive "guerilla gardening"(https://www.seattle.gov/transportation/permits-and-services/permits/planting-in-the-right-of-way#:~:text=Permits%20for%20gardening%20outside%20a,may%20incur%20a%20review%20fee.), otherwise what they're doing is blatantly illegal.

But of course, the Trollnoscenti around here will concoct all sorts of excuses for their illegal actions, because only people who live in houses are allowed to break the law...

19

@18 Yes the Trolloscenti... those horrid folks who go to work, pay taxes and contribute to society

Now those Trolloscenti... are engaging in "illegal actions" like planting the planting strip... which if memory serves SDOT encourages and if my memory serves further only requires a permit review at most... unless you plant trees for some strange reason.

While parking a RV, pitching a tent, pooping, peeing, sprinkling the area with a wide variety of discarded, used hypodermic needles (children won't find those interesting will they?) and providing a vast supply of garbage for the growing rat population is perfectly acceptable and not illegal in your version of Wally World? Is that your position?

What is your family motto "often wrong, but always confident"

20

@18: Yes, as @19 implies, a very small and victimless crime can be justified if it prevents many, larger crimes from creating more victims. It's sometimes called "civil disobedience," and has a long and proud history in the United States. Perhaps you should learn about Thoreau, Ghandi, and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.? (That last is the guy with the federal holiday named for him.)


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