To quote John Candy in “Planes, Trains, and Automobiles”: Gee, it must be swell to be so perfect and odor free, Charles.

consider moving to greater idaho

I moved to Seattle in the first week of 1991. Long before that year ended, I had friends calling, yes some from New York City, asking me about the Seattle Music Scene, and what shows I was attending.

“But, seriously, can you imagine, say, a Brooklynite declaring, upon seeing someone walking on Atlantic Street,”

Are you perchance referring to Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn, Charles? Because I grew up not far from Atlantic Avenue, but never did my life in Brooklyn take me to an Atlantic Street.

Yeah I can see how judgey proclamations like this can lead to a culture war, accusations of elitism, etc. ‘You’re all trash’ is a terrible platform.

There may or may not be an argument to be made that Seattle is somehow culturally vacuous, but Charles didn't even come close to making it. Reads like he was just getting up a head of steam then took a bong hit, got hungry and lost his train of thought, so called it good. Or maybe he was being sarcastic? I don't know--it's hard to say anymore

Seattle has a culture. It's definitely a "difficult to describe, but you know it when you move there" type culture. I grew up in New England and New York state. I've lived in Boston and I've lived in Brooklyn. I moved to Seattle from Brooklyn and lived in Seattle for 5 years (2002-2007) before I got seriously ill and had to leave.

Seattle is not at all progressive (though it believes it is).
Seattle is not at all liberal (though it believes it is).
Seattle is not at all about equity or even equality (though it believes it is).

On a whole:
The biggest difference I experienced was the racial segregation. Seattle is WHITE WHITE WHITE. Unless of course you go where they ghettoize the non-white populations. I expect that's changed since Seattle has gotten more expensive (and the ghettoized neighborhoods more and more white). Seattle 2022 stats are just shy of 68% white and in 2000 those stats were 70% white. Not much of a shift in over 22 years. It was shocking, truly, when I moved to Seattle how homogeneous and segregated it was (is). Boston is racist AF (and was moreso in the '80s when I lived there), though only 52% white and NYC is definitely still significantly segregated, though hardly to the degree Seattle is, and is far more diverse (less than 40% of the population is white as of 2022).

Personally:
The biggest difference I experienced was people agreeing to do something (like, say, meet up at happy hour or somewhere) and simply not show up, nor say anything about not showing up and behaving like that was totally normal human behavior (pro tip: it's not). People who behaved like that were quickly kicked out of my life and I found my tribe in Seattle. The best was when I met a person (a born and raised and lived their entire life in Seattle) who lived their life introducing good people to good people to grow the group of good people as far and wide as possible. Of course this person also works in the music industry, has been everywhere in the entire world, and is a Buddhist - so they may be an exception to all of Seattle's cultural norms.

The second biggest adjustment I experience was work related. Ask a direct question that you need answered in order to do your job? "You're being aggressive." What??? Passive-aggression is the rule in Seattle, not the exception, and it makes people who are not passive-aggressive sick (literally and figuratively).

The one thing that sticks in my memory the most about my first month in Seattle was the barista at the coffee shop around the corner from my apartment who was such an asshole to me every time I went in to get coffee. See, I had a Brooklyn sweatshirt I wore a lot (it was my favorite and one of few I owned at the time). EVERY SINGLE TIME I went in there and got coffee (which didn't last long with his bullshit), he would ask me stupid questions like "what's the area code of Brooklyn?" or "what's the zip code of Brooklyn" (like there's only one - eye roll) and other inane tests he apparently felt he needed to put me through as if I were somehow a poseur for wearing a Brooklyn sweatshirt. Finally, one day I asked him what his deal was - was he the fucking mayor of Brooklyn? I mean I LIVED there and the one thing I KNOW FOR CERTAIN is that no one who lives in Brooklyn GIVES A FUCK who wears a Brooklyn sweatshirt. Not one person.

That pretty much sums up the culture of Seattle. And it's not a good look. And hating people who move to Seattle will never stop people from moving to Seattle. And treating people who move to Seattle like shit will not make them leave (though it will force them to go elsewhere for their coffee). I thought I would live in Seattle for the rest of my life. If I hadn't gotten sick, I believe I would still be living in Seattle (though the expense might have driven me out, I will never know, though).

I think Lairdo may have hit on it. Most of the article -- like, the part where the argument is actually supported -- appears to be missing. As for the part about a Seattleite being indistinguishable, I think if someone born and raised here went east and met up with a selection of folks, he/she/they would have a difficult time telling if someone was from Baltimore or New Jersey or New York without being told.

@5 Agree. I found the ST piece full of lazy cliches and stereotypes (sadly typical of our last remaining daily) and would welcome a thoughtful, cosmopolitan rejoinder. But this article ends abruptly just when it starts to flesh out its point. If your headline promises a high-concept think piece, at least give us 1,000 words.

@9 I hope you realize that Michelin doesn’t review restaurants in either Oregon or Washington (so a little difficult to earn those coveted stars)

That sculpture and apartment facade in the pic do indeed epitomize Seattle's lack of public culture. When it's not cheap and tacky, it has no identity at all.

I no longer have a dog in this fight. But the umbrella thing is baffling self perpetuating nonsense. Because when I moved there in 1980’s there were plenty of people with umbrellas.

And if you go to MOHAI and look through archival photos every decade of photos after bumbershoots became a “thing” you can see them plentifully in Seattle streets. Maybe not as much as NYC or London. But people used them here.

I think once the street cars went away and automobiles solidified they started to fade. Walking cities use umbrellas more.

And the rest I suspect was clever REI marketing for Gortex.

@12 Umbrellas are often the best option when it's pouring and you just need to walk a short distance without getting soaked en route. While my preferred means of rain protection is usually a wide-brimmed waterproof hat, I do use them on occasion. But I'm not a PNW native, and there are aspects of the regional mindset that I know I will never entirely grok (and to be honest, don't particularly want to).

@6
I call it WWW - the wonderful world of white. (e.g. Portland and Seattle)
My take on the article is - welcome to the West Coast! Where people dress down for every occasion, and pretend not to care about anything.

I think the Seattle Times just brushes off that article, reprint it every decade or so.

Of course Seattle has a culture. Just like Omak or Cut Bank or Klamath Falls any other place where people live and socialize. I've always thought of Seattle as a midwestern city with better scenery. It's the west coast version of the Twin Cities (which can also be insufferable).

And here's the real story behind the umbrellas: Being of midwestern stock, we're cheap, and not fashion-oriented. The windy cross streets in downtown seattle can destroy an umbrella in a hot second, so some people don't bother. (Personally, I prefer those accordion-style plastic rain bonnet that fold up and fit into my purse. It works wonders to quiet a restless child in church).

No culture, thats a good thing right?

Now, now Charles has a point. (I think this may be a rare instance where I agree)

Seattle would not be considered the epi-center of culture.
Its a 'small city" as far as cities goes... about 750,000 and is a relatively new city.... founded 1851.

I think Seattle is still struggling... there are a few signs.... The city is frugal (probably more a Bostonian trait), Its practical, Liberal.... boy don't we have that down pat, It used to have a sense of humor ... that certainly fled the city, it was a welcoming city... these are traits, not necessarily culture.

A lot of "things have happened here", but a culture...that does take time.

Seattle's culture is indistinct because America is homogenizing. I don't know what anyone expects. It's AMERICAN culture.

Really, Charles, you need to learn to drive so you can go visit places like Boise and Missoula and see that hipsters are the same everywhere.

I realize that Charles is an absolutely insufferable elitist, but even this was too much. You may not LIKE cowboy/western culture, but to completely write off Montana and Wyoming because it doesn't fit your narrow-minded worldview of "culture" is the most elitist bullshit I think I've ever read.

Geeze Charles you really poked the beehive with this one.

There are a lot of angry Seattle folks who didn't like this observation. Many of them haven't traveled or lived abroad like you ... so they are having a hard time trying to understand your point of view.

For the moment, maybe its better to back off on this type of slog writing and stick to your zany and always entertaining economic theories. While way out there, they don't anger up The Stranger's core readers.

My God, they are calling you a "snob" now. What have you done. I liked your moxie and humble no nonsense communist bent. -- while often wrong, you are never in doubt.

@25: 103.7 is your friend if you want to hear 3 songs in a row by black artists.

@6 imagine living somewhere for ~6 years, fucking sixteen years ago and having the brainworms to write an essay length screed on literally anything about it.

Fwiw, Seattle is white but the south sound is not that white. Renton, Kent, Tukwila are among some of the most diverse places you could hope to go to (and yet often maligned by the Northern Seattle folk! Gee I wonder why). The greater region is larger than listening to a local cellist at cafe racer who, admittedly is great, but bragging about is on par w bragging about Nirvana or Earth or Sub Pop (i.e. not really indicative of contemporary cultural capital).

Normally I give Charles a lot of leeway but this one was pathetic. I agree w the others saying that while Seattle may be culture-less, to cast such vindictive glances at the "flyover" states speaks to someone who rarely travels and has certainly never toured in a band. Most similarly-sized cities have more cultural capital and culture than Seattle proper, and if you ever played a show in a small town you know that people come out in droves for some entertainment and culture in many of those places, and treat you with dignity. The same cannot be said of Seattle which often has the energy of a shitty little club w bad music and art but also doesn't want you to be there.

I haven't had my coffee and I'm groggy and on my phone so forgive the meandering. But damn what a bad response to a bad article to begin with. Holy shit.

@28: “…and if you ever played a show in a small town you know that people come out in droves for some entertainment and culture in many of those places, and treat you with dignity.”

Thank you for that. It’s not that I dislike these types of takes from Charles because of his opinion; it’s that he forms his opinion (especially those around rural communities) out of sheer ignorance.

This guy Charles sounds like a snobby neoliberal high modernist…some lefty!

He’s absolutely missed almost everything that makes Seattle culture special. The dude obviously doesn’t have a mushroom soul. Ick.

@6, 25

“Seattle is not at all progressive (though it believes it is).
Seattle is not at all liberal (though it believes it is).
Seattle is not at all about equity or even equality (though it believes it is).”

I could not agree more! And yes, the passive (-aggressive) shit is beyond weird and annoying. Dude! I just asked you a question and you give me a blank stare like I don’t exist?!!
I have met some non-zombified people here but after a year of living in Seattle they’re body snatched. To me, that’s the culture here, body snatchers. No eye contact/acknowledgment and husks walking around.

Nothing wrong with not having a culture. I read somewhere recently the assertion that what used to be called cosmopolitan is now often replaced by the pejorative 'globalist'. Happy to embrace the term globalist.

That said, I think there is a culture of some sort here but I also suspect it is not all that much different from that of several other northern cities like, as Ms. Du Vray mentions above, Minneapolis, although I have not spent enough time in any of them to say this for sure. Also suspect some of the annoying cultural traits (which are probably mostly annoying to those from the east coast, or from elsewhere at least) might be found in various northern European urban environments as well. The dippyness that most obviously manifests in driving habits like stopping in the middle of the street, blocking intersections, refusing to circumvent vehicles turning left etc. Also manifests in such things as chuckling incessantly at mostly inappropriate points during movies, pervasive politeness vigilantism, waiting for walk signals at 3 AM when there is not a car within a mile.

Anyway, reveling in the culture of the place you are from seems uncomfortably close to nationalism to me, if on a smaller scale and exponentially less malignant. Not having a culture seems kind of like an ideal to strive for.

I'm not sure what the definition of "progressive" is in this discussion. If one means liberal, in the classic sense, Seattle is definitely more liberal than, say, Omaha or Tulsa. But what city in the United States is truly "progressive"?

@35, are you talking about our hipsters or our street addicts??

Flannel

@27: Having the (very very very) long-time columnist for the local alt-weekly claim he’s been covering no culture for the past quarter-century makes for quite the reveal, doesn’t it? Your addition, that the vanity films he and his trust-fund buddies made also don’t count as culture, really just adds to the fun, doesn’t it?

Either this piece of clickbait was a wonderful piece of ironic posturing, or it was Charles’ greatest self-own in his exceedingly long tenure here. Either way, it was truly delightful. (Thanks for pointing me to that excellent Twitter thread, too!)

Every place where people stay long enough has it's own culture. It sounds like we're debating "what is culture?" Having lived most of my life in both Seattle and San Francisco (come to think of it, as of this year, 23 years in each), I can tell you there are distinctly Seattle things about me I never would have realized if I hadn't left.

Here's something I still very much appreciate that about Seattle: it is an entirely normal activity for young people to start a rock band. Of course those exist everywhere on planet Earth, but I swear there's nowhere it's as normalized as Seattle. Maybe it's all the basements, or the weather, or maybe it's just... a thing—but getting together with guitars and drums and whathaveyou is a much more remarkable act in most other towns. Keep it up.

I find myself in agreement with Mr. Mudede, but also I find myself wishing for more substance to his argument. I will provide some ammo I wish Mr. Mudede had used:
American culture comes from the bottom up and gets adopted by the masses, eventually making its way to endowed, established institutions and eventually makes its way to music schools, and conservatories. Think Jazz. Think rock. Think rap. Even in old Europe, this happened with ballet, whose foundational techniques were distilled from folk dances. Think of what The show at the Salon de Refusee eventually did to the Royal Academie in Paris. In today’s world, as it has for several centuries, culture comes up from below.
-Food Culture. Rome. Paris. Mexico City. New York. Philadelphia, Memphis, Los Angeles. What comes to mind when you imagine the food culture in any of these cities? Now, Seattle. Besides Salmon, what is a food uniquely associated with Seattle? High class restaurants known abroad? Street food known internationally? Domestically? What was invented here that people around the world actually know about? The Dutch Baby? NO. Aplets and Cotlets? Frangos? Nope. Go to any hot dog vendor outside of Seattle and aske them for a ‘Seattle Dog’. Or sushi shop and asi them for a ‘Seattle Roll’. You will be met with a blank stare. Please. Seattle doesn’t have much of a food culture.
-Murals and public art: When I take light rail to the airport, I see murals on buildings that are just filler - devoid of any sense of meaning or place. These murals could cover large buildings anywhere in the US or in the world...it is as if they were helicoptered in to cover large areas of industrial buildings, denying taggers and unsanctioned grafitti artists a tabula rasa. A friend who works for SDOT tells me there is a process for selecting these artists, who are nice people BTW. But somehow, something along the way got lost in a committee; take the light rail through SODO and you’ll agree. I know of what I speak...a trip to a place like Tucson, Arizona will leave one stunned by the number and high caliber of its murals, as well as how well the murals fit into their place. So ubiquitous are the murals that they become a virtuous feedback loop, where they are at once a part of the culture while also reflecting that culture; the result is seen everywhere, and it is immensely enriching, not simply a tool to cover industrial blight. Many of these murals could not 'belong' anywhere else. There are SO MANY OF THEM and they are SO. DAMN. GOOD. Check some of them out here:
https://thisistucson.com/tucsonlife/100-amazing-tucson-murals-and-where-to-find-them/article_9f5d841a-39ab-11e7-8840-8bd7d101486e.html
-Seattle's culture has been hollowed out: when I came to Seattle (pre-2000), artists did quirky things to the outsides of their buildings, and Seattleites rallied around outsider art (think Fremont Troll). I feel many of the people who had time to create or support authentic, Seattle-specific culture in Seattle have either moved away or had priorities changed (making a mortgage/rent payment or raising a family). Leisure time has dried up, many Seattleites are in survival mode now. Much of what passes for public art now is decided on by committees with only selective public input. Perhaps their goal is to be non-controversial, and not culturally referential. Incidentally, the true story of how the Fremont Troll came into being (as told to me by creator Steve Badanes) is one of circumventing a process created to keep popular opinion from winning out.
-Seattle is Noveau Riche: Shortly after Boeing announced its HQ move to Chicago, I was tasked with a business trip to Chicago...and personally, I had a chip on my shoulder...my pride in my new home was bruised by the announcement. What has Chicago got that Seattle ain't got!? I hadn't been to Chicago in a few years, but after I landed, I looked around, visited some well-funded (and very affordable) cultural institutions, looked at the buildings…so. many. important. buildings! the infrastructure, the support for labor unions and affordable housing, I and said to myself, OH. Now I get it. Chicago has been a wealthy and an important city since the 1850s. Seattle was founded in 1851. Chicago has decades of robber-baron fortunes turned into foundations that support accessible art and culture. Chicago is multicultural...waves of ethnic and cultural groups have made it home through the decades...the Italians, the Poles, Jews, the Great Migration of African Americans in the early 20th Century. I realized pretty quickly that we in Seattle were pikers by comparison, Johnny-come-latelies to the important cities of the world, and as yet not culturally important. Our robber barons are mostly still alive, noveau-riche, busy crushing unions, divorcing wives, stealing basketball teams, buying up art for their personal collections, telling themselves they are altruistic guys, and generally behaving badly. One who has left us, Paul Allen, well, his heir seems to be busy dismantling all of his passion projects he thought were going to leave his mark on the Pacific Northwest (Cinerama, Flying Heritage Museum to name a few).
-Workplace Culture or, put another way, “workplace culture”: In his famous book ‘Leisure, the Basis of Culture’ Joseph Pieper reminds us that work is not the basis of any culture: “Unless we regain the…ability for nonactivity, unless we substitute true leisure for our hectic amusements, we will destroy our culture―and ourselves.” Still, I feel Seattle’s contribution to Tech’s “Workplace Culture” bears mentioning: The ‘velvet handcuffs’ in the tech workplace – the individual offices, the free meals, the table tennis & fooseball tables, were born of Microsoft’s youth-oriented re-imagining of a workplace culture that would retain people with the right talents. Thing is, these trappings are not true culture and are unlikely to last as tech jobs get commodified, and late-stage Capitalism brings the global sweatshop to the tech workplace. Increased automation and AI is coming to the tech workplace (BTW, includes people working remotely) and automation doesn’t need culture in any form to keep it happy.

Scandinavian Heritage: Seattle used to have a lovely accessible ‘Scandinavian Heritage Museum’ located in a historic old school building. It was folksy, warm and felt real – one could feel the desperation and poverty that brought young people to leave their homes in Sweden and Norway and other countries. Fast forward to
To add a point of contrast to my points above, Seattle does have a very strong
Music Culture – Seattle has a sound that is globally associated with the city, and unique to its place, its darkness and the clothes that made sense to working class young people in a cool, rainy climate. When imitated, people call it ‘Seattle Sound’ or ‘Grunge’. Seattle’s music culture began well before ‘90s grunge, so the pump was well primed when the rest of the world finally ‘got it’.
Outside of music, Seattle’s “culture” is like eating tofu prepared by someone who doesn’t know what they are doing: soft, very white and very bland.

@42: “What was invented here that people around the world actually know about?”

Back in the early ‘90s, I waited for an airplane in the South Satellite at SeaTac. A group of locals were about to board, when one of their member pointed to the Starbucks shop in the terminal, and said to the rest of the group, “We should order our favorite lattes before we go, because we don’t know if we can get this coffee where we’re going.”

Very well stated @42. Thank you.

It's better to say that Seattle culture is diverse and fragmented. With Zoom meetings, international travel and an influx of imports to eastside cities like Bellevue that Seattle mixes with there are many cultures to Seattle. We have our bureaucrats, our innovators, our artists, polylinguals, and people who like to use the term "tech bro" but can't comprehend that the photographer at the show doing freelance work for Rolling Stone is a Microsoft executive. Don't get me started on the animal rescue subculture...