Columns May 21, 2009 at 4:00 am

Opinions Are Like Slog Commenters

Comments

1
This was kind of amazing.
2
Is "eat my lunch" some kind of sub code? I bet he breathes really shallowly and makes a big show of parting the pubic hair out of the way, too, when he goes down. Dork.
3
Wow, and I bet everyone's getting all excited thinking they're first.
4
DO THIS MORE! This is so fantastic. Seriously, drunk people opinions are so much funnier than sober people opinions.
5
Hysterical! And an excellent reminder -- especially to all those currently tempted to yell "cop out!" -- of the work that goes into the regular column (including the ones Dan writes that are STILL called cop outs).
6
To the submissive: yes, they do assume that many subs are bi. After all, you're clearly already pretty open with your sexuality. If I were you, I would put it out there at the beginning of the relationship with a dom that you always want to keep it between the two of you.
7
That was a refreshing change. I kind of liked it. Can you do this more regularly? In fact, except for the murder crack, most sounded pretty on the mark!
8
I agree that guy was a dork. So if a totally hot, kinky lady who satisfies his needs expresses a desire for a BGB 3-way (as a lot of women have those fantasies), he's not into it? Boo fucking hoo. Be alone, asshole.
9
It'd be better if you chimed in with some commentary on the SLOG responses too.
10
Dan, did you deliberately pick the most asshole-y, fucked up responses, to prove how candy your advice-ass is? Most of these Dr. Laura wannabes deserve to suck Cheney's ejaculate out of Bush's ass with a straw for the rest of their lives.

There are more compassionate people than Dan out there, although you might not know it listening to him.
11
Marcus: If we wanted compassionate we wouldn't be reading the "Savage" Love.

I lol'd at the "I eat my lunch", are ED's really that common with subs? [preemptive: No ED's are not funny but wtf does "I eat my lunch" mean?]
12
WATMDW, seriously, WTF?

"but when she suggested it might be fun to add "more sauce" to the mix—bring another man into our play, and this other man's ejaculate—I dumped her."

I'll let you in on a little secret. You can say "NO," to a sex act that you aren't interested in without dumping the person proposing the sex act. Yes, even as a submissive, this is not a situation where you either have to say yes or jump ship. Cripes. It's like going to a burger joint, being offered ketchup with your fries, and refusing to ever go back because you hate ketchup.

Refuse the sauce if you don't want it. You aren't ever going to find a woman with any sexual self-esteem if you can't bear her even SUGGESTING a sex act you aren't in to.
13
Wow Dan, these were pretty harsh. Amusing though, I'll give you that.
14
This is not an 'advice column'... this is a 'have fun bashing others, hiding behind your attitude, with no thought involved' column. WTF?

The submissive guy is totally in the right... enjoying domination energy is not even related to wanting a 3-way, or cuckolding (although the latter may need the former, it doesn't mean the converse is true)! There's monogamous dominant women out there. And also monogamous women who may have other kinks, or may want to take turns on the power thing.... no one even wondered if he'd be up for fulfilling a monogamous kink, for fucks sake.

And for SOS... she did NOT say "if you cheat that would be the end of it". She said "I would Never want to know". So drunk #3 had it. Be VERY respectful and considerate.
15
Kind of a cop out Dan, but the comment "KILL HER. Everything you need is at a convenience store: shovel, lime, rope, large garbage bags, sympathy card for the family." was absolutely hilarious.
16
Meh. Not at the column. At Just Saying. I actually think that the comments for WATMDW were pretty legit. As for SOS, definitely agree with Drunks #2&3. Not good for a relationship to be in the vague 'Maybe I'm sleeping with other people, maybe I'm not, you don't really know" area. Savage, column was duper delicious, I now have something to mark on my calender for every second Thursday of the month.
17
Monthy – I like that. Is it like mouthy?
18
I think next time you need to include a video of the drunks' answers as well – complete with slurs and drink preferences.

Great stuff
19
Epic comment!(" You Suck ,The End")
20
Epic *advice*:
" You Suck The End."
21
Sorry ppl I didn't think my last post posted
22
Did Mr. Poe write all the responses? WTF? Do you all have to be mean? I shoulda been there....
23
Why restrict sex advice answers to come from drunks in a bar? How about Hempfest participants? Or Mormons socializing after church? Or city council candidates after the debate? People waiting at DMV? The possibilities are endless.
24
Who expects a relationship that starts when you're a teenager to last? They're not supposed to last! Both people have way too much growing and changing to do, and the chances of ending up compatible are pretty much nil. SOS needs to do the right thing for his vanilla, monogamous girlfriend and break up with her so she can find a vanilla, monogamous boy.
25
That is quite literally the best idea ever. Dan - DO IT!
26
15 - couldn't agree more. Hilarious advice. However, it would be wise for the affected parties to ignore it.
27
Back in the good 'ol days (according to social conservatives), like the 50's and prior, no husband or boyfriend would have to deal with any of this 'pleasing the woman' shit.

I therefore advise anyone straight who's thinking of getting married to have a mandatory PRENUPTIAL agreement. They can be quite detailed and should spell out sexual expectations, fair notice of kinks and fetishes, monogomy waivers, ect.... Make them take the marriage seriously by truely revealing yourself bare to your partner. No confusion in the future... if things change then there is a clear violations of contract.

That's how you defend the sanctity of marriage against the straight people out to destroy the instituion of families for thousands of years.
28
"She said she would 'never want to know.' That is NOT an open door. That's a double-shielded blast door with padlocks and a sign on it that says, 'Don't even think about it, motherfucker.'"

...best. thing. ever.
29
I don't usually prefer columns where the advice is handed to someone else to answer, not because I consider it a cop out, but because Dan's answers are usually funnier. But THIS was incredible, awesome, and should be repeated on a semi-regular basis.
30
Don't do this again, Savage. People write to YOU for help, not to a bunch of drunks. It's a great big eff-you to your readers. Shame on you.
31
Dan,

This column bordered on cruel--and it is not okay to bash Mormans, call them names, etc, any more than it is appropriate to do that to any race or religion or gender, etc.

I've loved your column for years. There was no compassion in this one. Shame on you. Really.
32
Dan, this column was amazing, and ought to be repeated. and, may I say, I wish my local pub had such openminded and articulate patrons. If these guys were the typical clientele, I'd move in, just like Norm on Cheers! ;)
33
I get *really* fed up with the idea that a sub should always do exactly what the dom(me) says regardless of any other factors. That's *NOT* how it should work.

How it should work is that each person discusses their needs, expectations and limits before starting the scene/sex, and within those limits the dom(me) can ask the sub do what they want. That's assuming the sub really is a sub, and isn't just a bottom or a subby switch of course..

A Dom(me) that introduces things without consent or discussion is an arsehole. It's their responsibility to look after the sub, as they hold all the power.

None of the commenters above knows if the guy discussed this with his partner or not before dumping her - that's a very large assumption.

It's not acceptable to expect your partners to want additional people involved, even if they're bi. Not all bi people are poly or always into threesomes, and I'm fucking annoyed about the assumption that we are.

I also can't understand the drunken assumption that the guy is being selfish. He's performing cunnilingus for an hour and letting her orgasm multiple times before having his needs seen to. How the hell is that selfish? Strikes me he'd be in demand with a lot of mildly dominant women..
34
There is *a* BDSM group in DC? There are several. There are a lot of kinky folks here in your nation's capitol (surprise surprise). There are two groups alone that (at least nominally) cater to the under-35s. Don't like one? Try the other.
I *am* one of those "fat women". And you know what? We can tell the people who think that S&M stands for Stand and Model. And the people who show up looking to meet hot chicks who'll do what they want, rather than trying to meet like-minded people and form meaningful relationships with them.

And I'm sorry, dude, but it's a supply/demand issue. There are a lot more male subs than female dominants. I'm not saying that means you have to settle, but maybe consider what is actually important to you in a relationship and stop judging books by their covers.
35
emsique for the win.
36
I see that the advice given by drunk slog commenters is pretty much the same as advice given by sober slog commenters.
37
Sounds to me like Dan Savage didn't want to switch his note and did a one-man play.
38
@14: "And for SOS... she did NOT say "if you cheat that would be the end of it". She said "I would Never want to know". So drunk #3 had it. Be VERY respectful and considerate."

Never, ever base a judgement on the technical definition of a woman's words. It MAY be a door to talking about it again, but hell, I know a lot of women would just say that to be nice. She could really mean: "Don't fucking do it; I'm saying 'maybe' so I don't have to hear me being soul-crushingly harsh."

And does this guy really want a relationship where his girlfriend loathes a part of his life so much she never wants to know about it?
39
Also, Dan, please do this once a month, as it's fucking hilarious. I give you a little more credit than some of your detractors; a lot of your choices seem to cover the spectrum of a more well-rounded answer, so it works.

I'd also be interested in a version where you reply with your own answer.
40
@UKGuy -- Yes, we are making the assumption that WATMDW and his partner didn't discuss it, based on the earlier quoted line,

"when she suggested it might be fun to add "more sauce" to the mix... I dumped her."

Not, "when she suggested... I made it clear that that was something I was not interested in. We couldn't reach an agreement because she saw what she wanted as a natural progression from what we'd been doing so far and I didn't so, I felt left with no choice but to dump her."

Not, "when she suggested... I told her that while I love her for indulging my kinks, and am generally happy to do the same for her, I have a hard limit at bringing in other men/other men's cum."

Not any number of the ways the English language could have conveyed that conversation or meaningful discussion took place, but, "when she suggested... I dumped her."

To say nothing of how messed up his thought process is, going from "I need someone monogamous but kinky" to "BDSM groups are too expensive and the women there are unattractive" to "I can afford my own lunch" which seems to go back on the it's too expensive thing, to "I would marry a woman where things worked" when he can't get a relationship to work he's already all on this marriage thing...

So I really don't see a problem with assuming that the guy is selfish either. Where else does "I don't want to pay, I buy my lunch" and the dumping w/o talking come from?
41
I'm a freak, I guess. I loved the last comment. Obviously a drunk, but very well thought out, and it was my first good laugh of the day.
42
The advice is amazingly good, considered. I must remember to get the sympathy card, if and when.

CISL, nobody ever got sex from talking (well, not from telling the truth at least) and in heterosexual marriage the sex decreases over time. And tasting the milk doesn't tell you how well it will age. Count your blessings, you are better off without this woman for a wife.
43
This column proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that dumb fucks sitting around a bar are not at all qualified to give advice.
44
Sub dude, are you kidding me? This is my fantasy. I got hard even reading about your sex life. You girl demands you eat her out for hours and wants to cuckold you with other men? And she's hot? Do you know how lucky you are to find a girl like this?

Jesus! Why is this being wasted on you?
45
WATMDW, when it comes to the kink scene, immature guys like you are the least desired demographic. Sure you are surrounded by fat women, but guess what, you are basically the fat chick of this scene. Guys who troll around hoping to be topped by somebody who looks like Dita von Teese while offering nothing of value in return are a dime a dozen. To top it all off, as a sub, you are playing the guess what I want or get the fuck out game. To get what you really want, you are going to have to pony up some cash. With your social skills, forget about somebody living up to your sexual expectations while being in an a monogamous relationship with your whiney ass.
46
The last one is the least funny thing I've ever read. It's not a cute statement, or tongue-in-cheek, in a country where 61% of female homicide victims were wives or intimate acquaintances of their killers.(NCADV Violence Policy Center Annual Report, 2004). It made me feel like shit to read it.
47
scyphozoa, Weren't you the one who was just complaining about the silence on the subject? Joking about a sensitive and important topic is, particularly among the drunk, a time honored way to keep it in the forefront and to work through some of the emotional baggage. It is, however, lost on some people.
48
Gotta disagree with the yea-sayers. Sure, the answers were funny, but the people who wrote you asking for advice weren't looking for sassy zingers from your drunk buddies--they wanted your advice. Most of your fans seem to have been amused, so your readership won't suffer b/c of this stunt, but that doesn't change the fact that you basically gave your advice-seekers the middle finger.
49
The Sloggers' advice to the sub dude is way off. Just because he has submissive tendencies doesn't mean he isn't allowed to have control over his sexual choices.

If being cuckolded is a hard limit for him, then he is right to stick by his guns. Maybe he should just have more explicit negotiations with his prospective partners.
50
i don't think alcohol and testosterone over ice make for good advice. It just allows people to be brutish and cavalier. Fun maybe but not very professional
51
My drunken advice has been used by Dan Savage. Win. I can't wait to show Mom!
52
Okay, we get it, we get it. 99 percent of people suck at giving sex advice. But I secretly think and know I'd be really good at it, I swear!
53
@50

When has Savage ever claimed to be professional? :p
54
@Jester - though I do not share your specific fantasy/kink, I 100% empathize with the frustration: why oh why is it always pearls before swine? Dude sounds like a control freak and a definite case of topping from the bottom (I offer this thought as a BDSM "top" and a sometimes bi-male "bottom").
55
Oh give me a break. To all the people bitching about the sub guy. Hey, Dan's column is usually about telling people to go out and find somebody campatible to have sex with. Now everybody who answered was grilling the guy for not wanting to sleep with a fat woman who wanted another guy to fuck her? Were all the people who answered on a break from a Lillith Fair concert? As for the Mormon guy....hey, you escaped just in time, you're lucky you didn't have any kids with that fridgid woman. She was smart to kick you out and you would be smart to stay out and find somebody you're compatible with. Most mormon guys and girls get trapped because they get pregnant in the first fewm onths of marriage. Your wife's not wanting sex was a blessing in disguise.
56
OH wow I did not expect my advice to ever end up in a column. Ever. Thanks kokanee. A full 5 percent cup of water. Or 8 or nine. I lost track...........

BTW it was the buying the cow comment
57
@47 Joking about something in a group in order to get through some "emotional baggage" is one thing. But it's important to recognize that just because something may "help" you, that doesn't mean it's not offensive to others. You can't please everyone all the time, but the "kill her" comment was offensive and incredibly ignorant.
58
Opinions are like bodies; every asshole's got one.
59
@58 It's people like you, with your assumptions and generalizations, that have always made me feel excluded b/c of my birth defect.
60
Why did you print the murder thing? It's not funny. I know more than one woman who was murdered by her male partner; in both cases leaving her children behind. That makes me sick.
61
I think you might have used better judgment and deleted the murder joke.. not really a funny joke... ever.
62
WATMDW, you just don't sound like a real, full-on submissive and it feels like you're trying just a bit too hard to be one.

Instead it sounds to me as if what you want is a loving monogamous relationship where the sex is a little bit kinky - and let's face it hour long cunnilingus sessions and a bit of tease and denial are hardly whips, chains, inverted crosses and gimp masks - so I really do mean a little bit kinky.

A lot of women who don't think of themselves as dominant would be up for that on a fairly regular basis, although some of them would enjoy other things from time to time too.

Maybe it would help if you stopped labelling yourself as submissive and your girlfriends as dominant and just thought of yourself as someone who likes to be bossed about in bed a bit.

You just don't sound that kinky to me and I think you're creating your own problem by trying to live up to an image that is not from yourself. You don't have to "come out" as a sub to like having a girl sit on your face. You don't have to be a slave to like having a girl say "not yet" when you're about to come. Fact is, most guys like a bit of that and so do most girls.

Just don't expect it every time, instead ask her about her needs and try to fulfil those too, and you'll find that there are loads of slim, pretty, fit women under 35 who'll want to do stuff with you.
63
CISL - not getting enough action after just 8 months? Stop wasting time in that relationship and cut your losses.
64
I understand that you've been doing this for a long time, Dan, and it's nice to take a break and let others dole out the advice, like guest professionals and contest winners. But going to a bar and taping people's problems onto a clip-board so drunks can comment on them? I think that's going over the line. If I were one of the people that wrote to you and had my answer responded to in this way I wouldn't feel good about it at all.

If I wanted to get sex advice from drunks (other than you) then I'd go to the bar and talk to them about it instead of writing to you.

And btw, no, none of the questions were mine.
65
Sorry Dan, I love you but this is a loser. I can read snarky comments by the readers already. Don't do this again. You owe us a column.
66
@60 technically you knew them, unless you commune with the dead.
As for the rest of the offended asshats you do realize that a bar on capitol hill is not a bastion of testosterone ridden men. In fact one could make the case that these people who have alternate sexual lifestyles or preferences may provide sound advice without the patience to put up with a bunch of bitching from those who ask for it. but but but but. giv eme a fucking break. Yeah murder isn't funny, but this guy probably doesn't give a shit what his wife thinks at this point. Therefore one could say he is killing his relationship, burying his moronic mormon past and embracing his sexuality.
67
this was sort of like when the band points the microphone at the audience during a concert. i don't show up to hear the asshole next to me, i show up to hear the band.
68
DAN PLEASE READ THIS COMMENT... I would be really interested to hear your advice, especially regarding the first one.
69
that was hilarious! please do this again in the future!
70
Could you give advance warning the next time you do this? I think this is just the sort advice I need. (Or am I just afraid of getting support? It's prolly easier to be called a whiney arse titty baby than to try to fix one's faults.)

/whine whine whine
71
Dan,

Not cool.

72
I'd bet that the "eat my lunch" line is a reference to the Monty Python Lumberjack Song.
73
All those answers to the sub guy were stupid. It doesn't make you a bad person to not want to settle for someone old, fat, or demanding you eat cum.
74
It's [sic], not [hic]! 'Sic' means 'thus', i.e. 'that's exactly the way they said it'. 'Hic' means 'this', which is not what you want to say here.
75
"I eat my lunch" means "I can stand up for myself in difficult situations".

And that is why it is used in the Pythons' Lumberjack Song to illustrate how manly a man the 'jack is supposed to be....
76
FWIW: Dan has two declaimers of the "murder is wrong" variety in the syndicated column (and some other changes) - if the Onion's A. V. Club version is representative of how the column appears in non-local venues.
77
people are so f'd up, we should nuke the planet and start from scratch, then the only thing we would worry about is eating or being eaten....ugh!
78
people are so f'd up, we should nuke the planet and start from scratch, then the only thing we would worry about is eating or being eaten....ugh!
79
I fast forwarded through the pre-face and it read just like any other savage love edition.
80
this read just like any other edition of savage love. so what i mean to say is, your ideas are a tad bit homogeneous for freethinkers.
81
SOS:
Yes the door is open, no you shouldn't put her on notice. She's not saying she doesn't want to know exactly what you did with whom on what surface in what costume. She saying she doesn't want to have any idea you are even thinking about slipping out that door for some kink.
82
@74 I took “hic” as Drunken Latin.
83
Oh for heavens' sake, people. Of course people sitting around at a Slog Happy are going to try to go for the answers they think are funny rather than ones that are actually helpful. These people aren't writing to Dr. Ruth, after all, they're writing to Savage Love. I do think it'd be nice if Dan also provided his (slightly less drunken and slightly less snarky) responses, but I also think this should be a regular feature of Slog Happy. I totally want to get to do this myself!

Oh, and the sub guy - extreme much? Why not just tell her no, you're not interested in that? Why does it have to be my way or the highway? Ever hear of negotiation and compromise?
84
It was an experiment well worth trying, but, uh...no. However, Dan has said on numerous occasions that there are literally no qualifications for his job, and this proves it. Also, I think drunk people are more inclined than sober people to tell someone The Painful Truth when it needs to be told. Interesting experiment, but not so entertaining. Sorry.
85
This was really awesome. The only thing that would make this better would be you also putting in your 2 cents, Dan
86
@34: There is *a* BDSM group in DC? There are several. There are a lot of kinky folks here in your nation's capitol (surprise surprise).

Barbara Mikulski? Is that you?

Capitol:the building in Washington, D.C., used by the Congress of the U.S. for its sessions.

87
@33 -- my feeling exactly. my response to the sub was "Did you just try 'No' first?"
88
And that guy didn't say "I eat my lunch." He said "I eat my lunch EVERY DAY." Big difference. no fucking clue what it means, but it's different.
89
"WTF? Get rid of the shit. I'm not talking about 'leaving' her. She's likely to have some of your secrets. KILL HER. Everything you need is at a convenience store: shovel, lime, rope, large garbage bags, sympathy card for the family."

possibly my favourite thing ever written on savagelove. EVER.
90
advice to the dude that "eats his lunch everyday", dude....

just keep eating your lunch and hopefully you get something new in that special lunch bag.....cause it looks like you'll be eating "lunch" by yourself
91
Seconding the idea that Dan offers his own advice after entertaining us with the advice of the drunkards. Some of them were funny, but (not to brown-nose) I think Dan is usually funnier. These just sound like they'd be really funny if you were there, but are kind of bland when read online or in the Weekly. Also, he splices his humor with real advice.
92
to some of the commenters up there: uh, since when does mr. savage owe us anything? if he stops being interesting, i'll stop reading.
93
"...I eat my lunch every day. I don't need to be looked after. I'm totally self-reliant..." I took the "eat my lunch" comment to mean that he doesn't need a mommy or a woman who will nag him. However, to me, the fact that he needs to say the same thing three different ways sounds like he's protesting too much.
94
Since when is feedback the same thing as entitlement?
95
Shit was SO cash. Thanks for putting my murder advice in. The list comes from exp.
96
blushingflower, I would happily feast for hours and then when you've had enough quietly collect my things and go leaving you to bask in the aftershocks
97
blushingflower, I would happily feast for hours and then when you've had enough quietly collect my things and go leaving you to bask in the aftershocks
98
It almost seems like Dan genuinely believes that "anyone could do this" and he just got lucky getting the job, which isn't true, of course. The reason the column is so popular is that Dan is really good at it. Ugh. If I wanted to read some random asshole's opinions, I could just write something in my head and read it off the inside of my eyelids while drifting into a stupor.
99
Two comments...

1. I believe St. Peter actually said "opinions are like assholes - everyone has one and they usually stink."

and

2. It was kinda irresponsible to post that last piece of Slog advice without a BIIIIIIGGGG fucking notice to all the idiots out there in cyberspace that the "murder" comment was merely intended to be humorous. Rather, you opted to add a half-assed "murder-is-wrong-mmm'kay" bit into an area of the column that most people stop reading once they see the words "thanks to."
100
Two comments...

1. I believe St. Peter actually said "opinions are like assholes - everyone has one and they usually stink."

and

2. It was kinda irresponsible to post that last piece of Slog advice without a BIIIIIIGGGG fucking notice to all the idiots out there in cyberspace that the "murder" comment was merely intended to be humorous. Rather, you opted to add a half-assed "murder-is-wrong-mmm'kay" bit into an area of the column that most people stop reading once they see the words "thanks to."

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