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Goose
Less infuriating, but still arbitrary.
And the other underlying factor is that version of homophobia that assumes that having sex with another man is "real", whereas fooling around with your lady friends doesn't "count".
Sure, as a dyke, I have the ability to be involved with women who have male partners as insecure as these. But frankly, who wants to be involved with anyone who thinks that my relationship "doesn't count" by definition?
Argh.
My rebuttal was: "If you're going to be jealous/threatened by my fucking other men, what makes you think I won't have a problem with you sticking it in every other pussy you can find? How about I can fuck other girls and you can fuck other guys? That would be fair."
He said "But I'm not gay."
I said "That's not my problem."
My two cents thrown down the rabbit hole. Don't spend it all in once place.
If you can find any unbiased statistics, I guarantee you the men who are "ok with this" are compensating for some broken part of their self esteem which is down there in the mucky-muck.
"Deny Sex and bizarre forms of its expression will torment you.
Deny Love and absurd sentimentalities will disable you."
If you can find any unbiased statistics, I guarantee you the men who are "ok with this" are compensating for some broken part of their self esteem which is down there in the mucky-muck.
"Deny Sex and bizarre forms of its expression will torment you.
Deny Love and absurd sentimentalities will disable you."
@13 your arguement is the same that is used by Christian Fundamentalist against gays "maybe it is genetic but that is just a test from god"
@14 your arguement makes absolutely no sense. If that were true all people would be blonde, or fat, or skinny or, predisposed to cancer, or any number of genetic traits.
Then you go ahead and make a negative judgement about people who have a specific sexual arrangement? It's only okay in your book if people do things your way, and not their own?
I am trying to find a sentence that works better than "You are stupid for saying that," and I am failing.
I am a male in a relationship where she can fuck as many guys AND girls as she wants and I can only fuck guys BTW, so I feel I have a good position to judge the opposite arrangement, the vary one that she is taking issue with. It's not uncommon in BDSM for this sort of 'unfair' arrangement and a lot of us find it fucking hot!
Like 19, I'm reading this judgmental screed from a woman who regularly enters into "unfair" (but mutually agreed upon) activities and seeing lots of irony in her hypocrisy.
I am half of a couple with a bi female. We're active in many "swinger" style activities and get this reaction quite a bit when my girl makes her no-dick-but-mine policy known. Time after time, I get the old stink-eye from "real swingers" who assume that I'm a controlling prick for not allowing her to romp freely amongst the tallywhackers. Funny how many self styled hipsters suddenly become conservatives on this point.
One of the basic principles of sexual freedom is the freedom to make one's own choices. Her OPP is her business, not anyone elses. Am I supposed to badger her until she submits to a gangbang she doesn't desire so we can sit at the cool table? I bloody well don't think so. If she herself decides on something like that, well that's a different story entirely.
OK, I've vented. Sometimes it's her choice kids, that's the lesson for today. We now return you to your regularly scheduled comments...
By the way, The arrangement is not unfair. She either finds the arrangement satisfactory and keeps it, or unsatisfactory and changes it. She is an equal in the decision process. Besides, we all give up something in healthy relationships, whether its work or friendships or family.
Sometimes the girl doesn't care about guys enough to want to look for more than one. Sometimes the guy has security issues and she respects him enough to make that sacrifice. Sometimes they find that an mff threesome is a positive experience they can share, and there's no need to branch out into full-fledged polyamorism.
So who the fuck are you to judge, Matisse? This paper is to progressive for that kind of shit.
"Lift the gender ban and let her choose as freely as you do."
Yeah, that sounds really judgmental to me — saying people should choose for themselves. Matisse is totally like Hitler, Stalin and the gay Pope rolled into one lovely but evil hillbilly bigot package. I'm totally following you he...
Oh crap, hit my sarcasm quota for the day.
What if you used a different example. Imagine a couple where the woman likes pegging her boyfriend, but refuses to do anal herself. He enjoys the pegging, and would like anal, but she won't give it up. Is she an evil bitch? No, they just aren't quite compatible that way, and anyone would agree that if they're happy with the arrangement despite its quirks, then why stress over it?
I hate to camp the topic, but this column really pissed me off.
where as a penis doesn't get larger or smaller depending on its use.
A womans private part does take on different characters from the actions implemented on it!
For many guys, after they have dated a girl for a while they begin to put her into one of two categories. 1) the girl I'd like to fuck. 2) the girl I'd like to marry and have be the mother of my children.
For many men, these categories are mutually exclusive - since you obviously don't want the mother of your children to be a slut.
This is a stupid and unreasonable reaction that is buried deep in the subconcious of every male on the planet.
In a poly relationship it just shows up differently.
Then we took baby steps, and baby steps, and baby steps and got to the point where he said of his own accord 'if you spend the weekend without me with Guy You Have a Huge Crush on' I'm fine if you have sex.
Comfort zones should be respected, but I guess the important thing for me was that my partner made it clear that he was willing to keep working at stuff. If you love someone you stick around and give them a shot. (Getting from Monogamous to More Freedom than I'd Ever Exercise took us 7 years.)
"A womans private part does take on different characters from the actions implemented on it! "
This is a completely false statement, especially as it relates to penises. The only thing large enough to actually CHANGE the "fit" of a vagina is multiple babies making their out of one. Otherwise the vagina is a very, very springy muscle that snaps right back to it's snug fit once a penis has vacated the premises and she returns to an unaroused state.
You can put penis after penis in a vagina and it's still not going to turn it into a barn.
"A womans private part does take on different characters from the actions implemented on it! "
This is a completely false statement, especially as it relates to penises. The only thing large enough to actually CHANGE the "fit" of a vagina is multiple babies making their out of one. Otherwise the vagina is a very, very springy muscle that snaps right back to it's snug fit once a penis has vacated the premises and she returns to an unaroused state.
You can put penis after penis in a vagina and it's still not going to turn it into a barn.
"A womans private part does take on different characters from the actions implemented on it! "
This is a completely false statement, especially as it relates to penises. The only thing large enough to actually CHANGE the "fit" of a vagina is multiple babies making their out of one. Otherwise the vagina is a very, very springy muscle that snaps right back to it's snug fit once a penis has vacated the premises and she returns to an unaroused state.
You can put penis after penis in a vagina and it's still not going to turn it into a barn.
However, I think Matisse is helping people by pointing out a common fallacy in people new to non-monogamy. A "One Penis Policy" may work for some peopl, but it can definitely breed resentment for others. That's why it's important to do a lot.
And for those who say that men are biologically more jealous or possesive, I don't disagree. But those men who are very jealous and possesive should stick to monogamy. Any man who expects his woman to get over her jealousy, should be willing to do the same. Otherwise he's implying that her feelings of insecurity or jealousy are less important than her own.
I'm a bisexual woman in a relationship with a mostly straight man, and we have a similar arrangement, whereby he's happy with me sleeping with other women, but not other men. His reasoning for this, however, is that women have something he doesn't - ie pussy - and that as I'm bisexual he doesn't want me having to cut out half of my sexuality to be with him. He can provide the penis, I can outsource for pussy.
So MM starts the article off by saying what she is opposed to is situations in which the MALE'S jealousy is rationalized in a relationship. Explicitly she says, "HE doesn't like the idea of her fucking other guys" (Emphasis Mine).
MM finishes with, "If she doesn't want to, obviously she doesn't have to. But why have a rule forbidding it? Lift the gender ban and let her choose as freely as you do."
She's not saying "if it works for you, it's still wrong." Explicitly MM says if the woman doesn't want to fuck other guys, then she shouldn't. What she is very clearly against here is a relationship in which one half's jealousy is restricting the wants and desires of the other half, and doing so in an underhanded and deceptive way.
As I tell her: "Honey, whenever you want to find a guy, a chick, a bi partner, etc...it takes you about 10 feet of walking and 10 seconds of your life to find one, and you usually get free dinner and drinks, too! For me, though, who the hell knows how hard I'll have to work or what I'll have to pay that night to find somebody!"
We are both in Las Vegas for work quite often (and she doesn't like her "dancing" job...more so with the terrible economy really reducing her income), and I usually get us BOTH nice rooms in Vegas to give us some space and freedom, with an "understanding" that the nice room gives her more opportunity to play, but that I should be included in more interesting activities. Last trip, she wangled a 3-some, and only weakly attempted to contact me, and offered some incredibly lame excuses.
So for next trip, I've booked the REALLY, REALLY nice suite on the Strip, and she gets the off-strip sh*thole. And as I told her: "Honey, you know you can always do whatever you want, so have a great play time there, and no EXTRA charges to the room at all, but please do be careful and safe!" And no, you're not invited to my room or my parties that weekend! Remember, we have that "pay to play" rule--if I'm paying, I'm playing, but always feel ABSOLUTELY FREE to play without me WHENEVER you want! And maybe your 3-some will pay for you to play with them all weekend!" Sadly for her, she'll have to work a lot harder at a job she hates to pay her bill, and she'll have less play time, and then maybe we'll have a better understanding between us!
Do I like doing it this way? Absolutely not! And sadly, I'm rather old school in terms of relationships and chivalry, but, very broadly speaking, American women have changed so much over the years AGAINST what makes for a successful, committed relationship. And before I get blasted, believe me, my poor dear mother stayed in a horribly abusive relationship with a terrible alcoholic that she could not leave for economic or societal reasons, which was SO SAD. And before there's too much pop psychology in analyzing me, I'll also tell any partner that my mother's years of being a punching bag in that living hell means her comforts in life get a lot of priority now, too. And yes, the rules for women versus men in relationships were very unfair in many ways for too many years!. Regardless, and lol...it's another topic, but NO WAY IN HELL do I ever tell an American man to marry an American women--GO OVERSEAS, MY FRIEND, GO OVERSEAS!
But I can easily count a hundred times that I've had to re-inforce the point about "pay for play" with women over the years...just don't expect me to pay for YOUR playing!
If the female partner prefers only to sleep with other women, then why make it a hard and fast rule? There's a big difference between "I choose to limit myself, but we'll renegotiate if something changes" and "I'm forced to limit myself."
I have the same issue with mono-poly couples where the poly partner says "I will sleep with/date anyone I want, but you must be monogamous." There's nothing wrong with choosing to be monogamous, but it's a crummy double-standard to force on your partner.
As for your argument by analogy, is the pegging something she does for him, or something he does for her? Which one of them introduced the topic of anal play at all? Has she tried anal and decided she didn't like it or refused to try it at all? There's a big difference between her saying she wants to peg him (and him going along with it since it turns her on) but refusing to do the same for him, and her being willing to indulge him with one specific sex act they both enjoy but not one she knows she doesn't like.
Maybe some of these OPP guys are just grossed out about the idea of their woman having sex with other guys. Fear and being grossed out often overlap, but they are not the same thing. (See David Sedaris' interesting take on overuse of the term "homophobia" ... sorry, I forgot where I read it, I think it is in Naked or Me Talk Pretty One Day.)
I'm actually inclined to agree with Matisse that fear is the driving factor here, but I don't have much to base this on, other than imagining how I would feel in the straight guy/bi woman situation where going poly was on the table, then projecting these feelings on other men.
It would be interesting to read more about how poly folks deal with jealousy issues, and fewer posts summarily dismissing jealousy as a purely evil and/or obsolete trait.
In my current relationship I enjoy penetrated my GF anally and she enjoys being backdoored.
My GF has also expressed interest in penetrating me, but I am not interested being pegged. This is not a double standard it is personal preference and to be respected, not belittled.
Too many people assume that to be fair something has also be exactly the same. A one penis policy is fine as is a one pussy policy... regardless the reasons.
"Rationalizing it as hardwired is lazy. Indeed one may not be able to help feeling jealous but one certainly control how one deals with those feelings."
You can apply that logic to any situation, from one extreme to the other, and anywhere in between. You CAN control how one deals with feelings, but if you start supressing/crippling/putting up with something that is not natural to you where it takes an extreme amount of will to suppress, believe me the side effects will show -- if not instantly, years down the road. They WILL manifest themselves in fucked up ways, no matter how much "control" you're taught you're supposed to have. Choke it down, son. Be it a fetish, a broken will/emotion, neurosis, or whatever abstract behavior you could possibly imagine.
No surprises here, just another mutation-turned-monument to self indulgence.
Please... Colonize Mars. Make it soon.
Before DNA testing, the only way to prove paternity was to restrict women to have sex with only one man. Note that I say "women" (plural) and "man" (singular). Men could have multiple wives, concubines, etc., as long as the women remained monogamous, since, when a child is born, who his/her mother may be is never in question.
Women who had sex with more than one man bore children whose paternity couldn't be proven, and so these children were bastards and their mothers, whores.
This concept is so ingrained in our culture that, even though medical science has provided us with the means to prove paternity, there is still a presumed restriction on female sex lives. Females are expected to be monogamous, even if their male partner is not. Lesbian relations are often acceptable because there is no chance of conception taking place, but women are still expected to stay monogamous to one penis.