Columns May 27, 2010 at 4:00 am

La Cage


My prediction: As rich a resource as that app would be, it won't pass muster for those Puritans running the App Store.
<3 ya Dan!
Might I also suggest to MBIMP to leave the key to the cage inside an ice cube, in a bowl of cold water within reach for her partner in the cage, or something similar in any event he needs to get out of there safely and quickly as possible.
Always so good.
Why doesn't MBIMP just pretend to go out? Just slam the front door, and then hang out and read a book for a few hours. When "coming home", just slam the door again! Her boyfriend-thing will never know the truth if he's caged up in her closet.
I feel your frustration WNITL!!! My boyfriend is exactly like that too!!! Even though he says he's really enjoying himself...but I can't help feel insecure and actually turned off at times, especially considering I'm so loud and expressive by nature,LOL. I'm going to try Dan's advice. I think it could actually work! Good luck.

I love the whole "like one of my things" hehehehe

Great column, Dan!
@4 - that was my first thought. If she does agree to go out though, I think she has enough options to keep it safe. The cell is obviously the best option, as long as she can call and check on him periodically. (It won't do much good if he;s hurt or something and can't call) I'm not super technosavvy, but a webcam would let her check in on him periodically, like a baby monitor. If he's in the dark, then she'd need an IR cam and light source, and a phone that would handle the feed.
Dan, the advice to WNITL is one of the hottest things I've read in my entire life. Will be trying this out with my (pretty damn responsive) partner this weekend.

...And damn if I'm not excited.
An idea for MBIMP:
Back in Catholic school, when we'd go on school trips and stay in hotels, teachers put a piece of tape on the outside of our door to ensure we wouldn't leave. If the tape had come unstuck, they'd know that an escape had taken place. Maybe MBIMP could do something similar with the cage while she's out? Leave the door unlocked, but forbid the fiance to leave the cage, using the tape method to ensure he complies with orders.
I do not agree at all with Dan's advice to LTL.

I think there could certainly be Transexuals that are into "friends with benefits", just as there are straight, gay, and lesbians who are into this.

Also, why did Dan jump to the conclusion that LTL is afraid to be in public with his Tran?

Almost seems like Trans-Discrimination on Dan's part!

But I love Dan.
NO noise at all? What's the point??

Girl one up your little experiment and stop making ANY noise when he pleases you, especially during oral - he will hate it and you refuse to increase the volume until he does.

I'm sure Dan's advice will work better, but a no sound chump who wont even TRY to change that despite how much it bothers you sounds AWFUL to me. No dirty talk even?

MBIMP could also hide a key within reach (perhaps under the carpet, or inside a shoe in the closet) and not tell her boyfriend about it unless he calls in an emergency.
Is MBIMP's guy into being punished? If so, all she needs to do is leave an extra key within reach, but coated in something super messy (like..I don't know, super fine glitter? Someone help me out...) where if he were to touch it and use it, she'll know 'cuz it'll get everywhere. Then he can safely use it in the case of emergencies, but if he uses it for any other reason...big trouble.
@10: they are probably in such high demand (compared to the supply) that the writer is unlikely to find one willing to do the FWB thing. That's just a guess, but I think Dan probably has his thumb on the pulse of the MTF community enough to know such a thing.

@WNITL: discretely hidden key within arm's reach of the cage. Maybe underneath? If it's out of sight that maintains the integrity of the fantasy about as much as you can while still being safe.

@11: through masturbation while teens living at home, men teach themselves to be as quiet as possible. It can be difficult to unlearn. Dan's advice is really good, but if that doesn't work me more forceful.
Maybe noisy girl can tell her lover how much it excites her to hear him moan or gasp with pleasure...he will eventually get louder...mine did
I think WNITL needs to have a more frank and honest discussion with her boyfriend. Here's a sentence she should use: "remember that time I went stone silent and it made you really self-conscious? That's how I feel every time. You're allowed (expected) to show some signs of enjoyment."
LTL: Where does a guy find any woman who's looking for a casual FWB thing? If you're willing to invest the time making a name for yourself, get involved in trans-friendly causes. Be patient, be friendly and don't be a douche, and you should meet enough transfolks that some of them are bound to be NSA-friendly transgirls. Although let me again underline the "don't be a douche" part; do this to network and meet new people, not to earn hookup brownie points.

MBIMP: Does your cage use a padlock? If so, get a number-based one rather than a key-based one. Leave him with a phone so he can call you in case of emergency to get the code, otherwise he's stuck. For added security, share the code with a few trusted friends who he can call in case you're MIA.

Otherwise, what other people have been saying. Phone is mandatory CYA, ideally you'd have friends who weren't too squicked by the idea run the occasional checkup, and you really want to have a key somewhere he can get to it for when shit hits fan.

WNITL: What Dan said. If you have the opportunity, phone/netsex can also set a stage of "if you're not participating, nothing's happening". You're probably not going to make a screamer out of him, but he'd be a pretty crappy boyfriend if he doesn't talk dirty/ham it up a bit when you specifically tell him it gets you off.
I'm an App developer; pretty much any well-designed App that isn't actual pornography gets passed. Hell, look at Grindr.

All the rules are just like the laws of society: they're only there to catch the scum. The rest of us can break them in minor ways and get away with it.
It seems to me, hiding a key would deflate the proceedings more than leaving loudly and sneaking back in, but sooner or later you're gonna want a cup of tea i suppose.
WNITL: My boyfriend was like this for a while at the start of our relationship. My main advice is to start edging him toward and away from orgasm a lot more. Blowjobs are the perfect way to do this. At some point he will get desperate and start pleading for you to finish him off. ;)
The quiet boyfriend may never vocalize during sex. Instead, she should buy him a bicycle horn. When he's feeling pleasure, honk. When he's getting close, honk honk. When he's coming - the room will sound like a Marx Brothers convention.
I'm one of those silent types - I'm a breath-holder - and I always feel a tad guilty because I want and like a noisy partner.
For the woman who imprisons her boyfriend:
Try plastic cable ties instead of a padlock. Leave some scissors in reach, but let him know that once the tie is cut, he will have to have a bloody good reason...These would be impossible to replace after removal, if she hides her cable tie stash. I know this might seem less sexy, but it depends on the person.
I was once left in a cage while my owner and his friends went for a short walk. They used a more makeshift method of twisting wire around the bars holding it closed, in such a way that it would be clear if I had undone it and put it back on.
I did see a really good BDSM store online which had them but all with individual numbers on to prevent replacement, but I've forgotten the link. If anyone finds it, that'd be awesome.
@13 That is way freakin' hot.
MBIMP should supply some pics of the bf's abs. Because, you know, we all need to verify that he's staying healthy and active? Right?
It sounds to me like the caged boyfriend would not want to have a key to his cage. I think the webcam idea is pretty good, but you would have to find a tech savvy friend to set it up for you. The best scenario would be to have a very understanding neighbor who would keep the key in case of emergencies. The boyfriend could have a cellphone to call the neighbor if he needed to get out of the cage.

No way would I want someone who would be willing to babysit a man in a cage in my house! I would have two worries then! one, is my boyfriend ok with this person, and two, is this person masturbating in my shoes, or with the vegetables in my kitchen, so on etc...people (obviously) have some very strange fetishes!

Dan's batting average is MVP-level, but he strikes out occasionally, doesn't he.

When LTL says he "would like to go someplace where I could meet one and see if we could hit it off and go from there," what he's saying is that he's looking for the very qualities that Dan's suggesting he's trying to avoid: "love, companionship, intimacy, and a commitment." Which you don't get from hookers of any sexual stripe, by definition. And which is part of their allure to those who feel that allure.

I don't think Dan's advice was "trans-discrimination," as you put it, #10, but the inverse. Every so often, Dan assumes the worst in people who are trying to practice their kinks with some integrity and compassion, for themselves and for their putative partners.

Dan's got a recurring blind spot. I'm not sure where it comes from-- he's got his hang-ups, as we all do -- but it's there.

Sincerity isn't always hypocrisy, Danny Boy. Why the occasional passive-aggressive anger? It degrades the cleverness and insight.
In my experience, some people, when they're feeling the most intense pleasure, are quiet and/or expressionless because they're diving inward into a pleasure pool, concentrating on sensation and/or togetherness, and don't have the impulse to spend energy on outward expression. It's not ideal for the partner who likes it noisy, but it's not *necessarily* a sign of insecurity or internalized gender bias. Maybe it's just the way he's wired. Maybe he only feels some insecurity because, as Dan said, you're treating it as a problem, a shortcoming.

As someone who doesn't express his emotions very much, and likes it that way, I really appreciate you posting this comment. If my partner's enjoyment depends on me making some outward sign of what I'm feeling, I'll make the effort. But it doesn't come naturally to me and as far as I'm concerned there's nothing wrong with that.
MBIMP can check out X10 home networks like INSTEON or whichever brand fits their purposes better. A computer can be used to remotely open locks and access can be through a smartphone/iphone. A video camera pointed at the cage might make things hotter for them too. She should put in some kind of escape method though just in case something happens and she never gets the message to let him out.

The advice to WNITL is definitely hot. Better to entice than to make demands
I think WNITL needs to be careful about how she goes about this. I'm not nearly as quiet as her partner, but I've had two ex-girlfriends who demanded vocalization during sex. It takes a lot of concentration on my part to get off. Sometimes I can concentrate and vocalize, sometimes I can do one but not the other. My two exes demanded vocalization so much that even when I did manage to reach orgasm, sex pretty much became a chore. Dirty talk definitely became a chore.

I don't know how I'd react if my fiancée did what Dan suggests (though she doesn't really seem to mind if I'm a little less noisy, and she's the same way I am) but my reaction when reading it was that it sounded frustrating, and was more likely to induce stress and perhaps anger than a screaming orgasm.
I think WNITL needs to be careful about how she goes about this. I'm not nearly as quiet as her partner, but I've had two ex-girlfriends who demanded vocalization during sex. It takes a lot of concentration on my part to get off. Sometimes I can concentrate and vocalize, sometimes I can do one but not the other. My two exes demanded vocalization so much that even when I did manage to reach orgasm, sex pretty much became a chore. Dirty talk definitely became a chore.

I don't know how I'd react if my fiancée did what Dan suggests (though she doesn't really seem to mind if I'm a little less noisy, and she's the same way I am) but my reaction when reading it was that it sounded frustrating, and was more likely to induce stress and perhaps anger than a screaming orgasm.
:-/ Sorry about the double post.
Dan, I really couldn't disagree more with the advice you gave to WNITL. Her silent boyfriend is a guy who has a big problem with himself, evidenced by his question "do you expect me to scream like a girl?" In other words, he thinks it isn't masculine to make noises during sex. If WNITL follows your advice, Dan, I believe the boyfriend is going to take all his self-directed issues and place them squarely on HER. How do you think a guy who feels insecure about his masculinity would react to suddenly being non-consensually topped by his gf? (orgasm denial is definitely topping). I am vey concerned that if WNITL follows your advice, the bf will react aggressively to her, and transfer all his pent up frustration and insecurity he's feeling about himself into blame and hostility directed towards his well meaning gf.
For LTL, there is a group who would fulfill your request, you just might have to change your standards a little bit. Crossdressers. Sure, maybe we dont look like the she-males in porn, but we definitely can provide the illusion that get you past the I'm-having-sex-with-a-guy thought. We dont spend everyday looking like a girl, but for a bit of fun and frolic of the NSA variety, there are plenty around, just take a look, and dont expect us to look like you can take us to that hot spot dance club.
@ WNITL... when i was younger, i had a bf who was the silent type DURING sex... much like the LW's bf, to the point where i would have to ask him if he came, since sometimes he would remain hard even after orgasm. I always found such eroticism in diving into his eyes while he was thrusting into me... when we were face-to-face :)

However, he was full of dirty and erotic talk before and after sex.

The irony of this is that HE is the one who opened me up during sex so that i felt free to express my inner erotic, dirty girl. (I'm not a screamer, never have been, so, not talking about that.) Before him, i kept totally silent for fear of offending. He didn't pressure me; he just gave me permission to speak. He taught me so much, and i've never looked back. Nowadays, i can't prevent stuff from popping out of my mouth during sex (excuse the pun)!

I understand, LW, that you feel you are missing out on his emotional connection, but you shouldn't pressure him to change. You should definitely express your feelings on the topic without coming off as blaming him, and choose a time for that talk when you are NOT being intimate leading to sex.

Some people are just the strong, silent types, such as #29/30. You have to figure out how to get the most out of the connection you do have, but if you have to play games like Dan suggests, IF your bf is ok with that, then do it, but i wouldn't just throw those games on him without first discussing it.
Instead of a sitter, why not just leave the cage closed but unlocked? Give him instructions that he's not allowed to leave while she's out- if he does leave there will be severe consequences. It adds to the game and it gives him the option of disobeying his mistress. Sometimes it's fun to give your sub the option for additional misbehaving/punishment. This way, he gets to be one of her "things", but he also has the ability to free himself in case of emergency- be it terrorist related or otherwise dangerous.
Just wanted to add something- What about using a tie on the door to his cage that is easily broken but can't be resealed? Or something outside his cage that would be knocked over and couldn't be reset from the inside, if he were to open the door? If it's a real emergency, he might not have time to reach for his glitter coated key, get the combo lock open or use scissors to cut a plastic tie. In a true emergency he might need to be able to get out of his cage immediately, without wasting any time.
To LTL - in order to meet a transsexual woman to be your friend with benefits, why not just start as "just friends" with one of us? Get involved with LGBT related events and organizations, there is bound to be a few TS women there as well and just strike up a conversation with them. You might start off as friends and then it could develop into a FWB type thing. Worse case scenario, you just make some new friends.period. You could also try online message boards too, but I think you'll have a better chance making true friendships if you meet people in person.
MBIMP, if you go to you can actually find lots of super exciting (and nice) groups of people that would probably just love to help you out. You have to join (it's free) but then you can search for groups in the Seattle area and put out your personal on their forums. I've been on for a while, and as an 18 year old college student I can say that the majority of the people I have met are totally cool and safe. The major rule of the site is respect.
Yeah, I'm not sure about the games Dan suggests. Definitely a good idea, but just one among many, and you need to decide whether your BF will react to it well.

I had/have a boyfriend who's fairly quiet too, and I just told him that I enjoy it when he does make noise and that it's OK now that we have our own place. I also remind him how much he likes it that I'm a vocalizer, and ask him to focus on how his noises make *me* feel hot -- which usually turns him on. He's still nowhere near as loud as I'd love, but it's an improvement and I think he's reacting more openly, which is the key thing.

At SOME point, though, you'll need to realize that he might just be at a different level of noise than you are. So keep that in mind while you poke him.

I also agree with @32 that "scream like a girl" is a bothersome phrase. I'd be pissed at my BF for characterizing it as some kind of weakness or something below him.
Does it have to be noise? How about some other physical indication that your partner is getting off, like stroking or hair-pulling or caressing or biting or deep bloody scratches from your fingernails in your partner's back? All of that sounds totally hot to me (whether giving or receiving), but I also like both hearing and making vocal noise (but better grunts and moans than screams)...
Regarding LTL: while Dan may be assuming the worst of this particular person, he does raise a pretty important issue for a lot of trans women: the percentage of guys who are interested in getting on with trans girls in an FWB way *only* is MUCH higher than it is with guys and non-trans girls.

There's nothing at all wrong with FWB arrangements, but there is still a generally pretty strong social stigma about straight guys openly dating trans women. Personally, I don't mind FWB with the right person, but it's very tough to get beyond it with most guys, in my experience. Any assistance that Dan and the Savage Love community can give towards shattering that stigma would be awesomely appreciated.
I disagree with what you said to WNITL, Dan. It think her boyfriend needs to realize that making sounds in bed doesn't mean you're a girl. Also I'm guessing she wouldn't be so troubled if he acted out his pleasure and responded physically to it. I'm guessing he just lies there like a rock and waits for her to finish.

I had the same problem with my boyfriend (I'm a 26y/o gay man) and I fixed it by talking to him and explaining to him that it gets me hot to hear him moan and see him squirm. I also tried a few of the tricks you described, but talking is also important. The way he's humorously shaking it off is a way of avoiding conflict. They need to confront the issue and talk about it seriously.
@40: Good point on different kinds of sounds. The fact that the guy immediately pointed to "screams" might be an indication that he doesn't think other noises count? Take that into account.
Here's an idea for MBIMP:
Lock the door with a padlock and put the key within reach of the bf. Then loop a piece of paper around the lock, so that if the boyfriend needs to open it up, he has to tear the paper to get at it. That way if he's been out, she knows and can punish him, but he's able to escape in case of emergency.
@ #40... hey, whatever rings your bell, but you sound like you're deeply into S&M with your suggestions... "deep bloody scratches" is not for everyone, and honestly, if it were me being deeply and bloodily scratched while being fucked, it would totally ruin my fuck experience and make me yowell in pain and draw back in fear. I'm pretty sure it's not the type of noise (or experience) the LW is talking about.
I second AhPook33's (#32) read: WNITL's boyfriend sounds like he has some issues concerning strongly internalized gender roles in sex. He seems to think guys don't/can't/shouldn't make noise during sex, based on that comment and the fact that he doesn't take her concerns seriously ("He thought this was funny, and then things went back to normal."). He's going to have to get over those issues before he's going to be comfortable with making noise, although I will acknowledge that perhaps Dan's suggestion will force him to do something with which he's not comfortable and thereby realize that there's not really anything necessarily 'unmanly' or whatever about making noise during sex.

That said, like truthspeaker (#27) above, I don't happen to be someone who makes much noise (maybe some grunting/low moaning when I'm getting close to orgasm) during sex, and I've also been told I adopt an odd expression that suggests I'm upset or uncomfortable (which isn't the case at all, usually). While I might be able to consciously adjust some of these behaviors, it would certainly be a chore to do so, requiring a level of self-discipline and focus that would make sex somewhat less enjoyable/more of a chore (and would also be somewhat contrary to the whole idea of me voicing my pleasure). I'd certainly make the effort to reach some sort of level of vocalization that works for me and my partner, were this to be a problem, but it would be one of those things that I'd be doing solely for my partner and her pleasure. As this may in fact defeat the purpose, it could simply be the case that someone who wants a screamer is too sexually-incompatible with someone who doesn't make (enough) noise for a sexual relationship to work in a way that is satisfying to both parties.

WNITL needs to be assertive about her needs and willing to dump this guy if he's not willing to work to meet them.
Sounds as if the man who likes to be put into a cage has some serious issues from childhood. No doubt his girlfriend does as well.
Look, it doesn't really matter what the BF's problem with making noise during sex is, the point is that his GF wants him to do something other than lay there stone-faced like a fucking robot. The fact that he won't do anything, at all, differently suggests that he's a self-centered asshole during sex and she should consider moving on. If your partner won't even try to make you happy in bed (in this case, try to dial down the weirdness even), then let them know you're looking elsewhere for a better deal. It'll hurt their feelings, but you'll get a response and maybe, just maybe, they'll re-evaluate their dickish behavior in the sack. And for those who've chimed in with the "I'm quiet 'cause I have to concentrate!" defense, concentration when you're nearing orgasm is one thing; sex is a little longer and more involved than that and you need to spend at least some of the time getting your partner into it. Wearing a mask, which is what he's doing, the whole time is creepy and weird when the other person isn't into that.
Make an Android app, Dan. F*ck Apple.
would MBIMP's boyfriend be into her having people *over* on a weekend night, having drinks and hanging out like normal, and just not mentioning that her bf happens to be locked in cage in the closet? It's sort of a compromise, and a way of treating him like another one of her "things." On the other hand, I suppose this is making her visiting friends unwitting (if tangential) participants in the fetish, so I can't decide about the ethics of that.
The advice to wnitl sounded like tons of fun. I so have to try that on my bf.
@19: MBIMP could try a hybrid approach. If she's home, no key. If she's going out, she leaves a key where he can get it in an emergency. Once in a while, she "goes out" and "forgets" to leave the key, and just reads a book on the couch.

The key (so to speak) will be to strike a balance with how big of a deal leaving the key behind is. Make it enough of a big deal that he'll notice when she "forgets" but not so big a deal that "forgetting" is out of character and he figures out that she's not actually leaving.

Of course, this doesn't preclude other options, like hiring a sitter.
Can someone help me out here. I'm confused by the first letter...the strait guy wants to hook uo with a trans woman...but if she's a trans woman wouldn't she identify with being male and look/dress male? Do I have that right?
I haven't even finished the column, just the first letter, but I had to stop and say, Dan, I love you.

From a 'tranny's' mom.
Talking and Noise while doing it is like sex with 3 pigs. One talked to much and was a turn off. One was to quiet and it was hard to tell if he was turned on. But the pig who said everything just right squealed all night long. Or am I thinking of Goldilocks and the 3 bears?
@53 - a transwoman is a transsexual woman, or male-to-female transsexual. She was born biologically male but identifies as a woman.
@53 exactly backwards, the gender after the "trans" is how trans folk identify, not the anatomy they were born with.

And adding to the many safety suggestions for MBIMP, I like the idea if a secure door on the cage, but an entire cage wall should be able to be kicked loose with ease. This helps keep the illusion intact, but leaves options in case something bad happens.
Android app! Please make an Android app, too! :D

Regarding the silent boyfriend, I agree with what someone said above: it's possible that the feelings are so intense to him, he is completely focussed on the sensations, and his seemingly blank look is actually one of profound concentration. I also agree, though, that the girlfriend should just be straightforward: "I find your silence during sex distracting and uncomfortable, and it would really turn me on if you'd let your face/voice loosen up."

As for the caged fiancée, I support erring on the side of caution. I like the cell phone idea, though, since he'd at least have access to 911 in a very worst case scenario.
MBIMP must use a fail-safe strategy like #44's: a simple tamper-evident nearby key/lock arrangement, even if only based on a strip of paper she's signed and dated. Technological solutions are not solutions at all, and even if she's only around downstairs, something could go tragically wrong: dreadful for him to hear her calling for help but be unable to escape!

I think the 'sometimes forget the key' idea is particularly dangerous: she really might forget the key on the one day he needs it, and he won't think to ask. Even if he's 'just one of her things' she would want him in good condition.

WNITL - I'm a silent type, feeling very self-conscious if I try to make noise. My wife is very vocal, and struggles to keep it in even when politeness says she might want to. I know she likes me being noisier (and talking dirty) so I do try, but it feels... fake, even kinda dishonest.
I don't think Dan's advice to WNITL is very helpful & would ultimately result in long tiresome games that aren't worth the time & effort. His "do you want me to scream like a girl?" comment raises a serious red flag, and I agree w/#48 that she should tell him if he doesn't start addressing this she's gonna look elsewhere.

Of course it largely depends on how important this is to her when held against the other facets of the relationship, but it seems to be important enough that he needs to at least take it seriously, which he doesn't seem interested in doing, & it seems to me she can do better elsewhere.
. . . ."fiance-thing". Hehheh. That's funny.

Chacun a son gout, but I can't imagine a lifetime with something I had to keep in a cage every weekend. Lots of lonely picnics, parties, movies, protest marches, dumpster diving, little chic lunches . . .

And I think it's cheating to let him out to make doodoo. I mean, what's a cage if you have access to a flush toilet? Grow a pair.

I think the problem is that there's always going to be some guys who like girls (or guys) who they would not want to be associated with liking. As Dan noted, it's like someone who really legitimately likes BBW, but doesn't want all his friends knowing that he likes big butts and he cannot lie.

In this case, it's especially bad, because there's much more about trans-women that makes society writ large a bit squeamish. There is, at least, some support for liking BBW (or nerdy girls, or redheads, ect.) but it's pretty rare for a guy who likes trans-women to either be open about it, or try to justify it. There are some fetishes that we're open (or at least more open) about, and some that we hide in the deep, dark, corners and try to both fulfill and keep under wraps.

I intend no offense, but it's a bit like being into furries or ABDL, or any of the other more "out there" kinks; things so far outside the mainstream that most people would (at best) look at you like you're insane. I'm not sure how to get rid of the stigma there.

But, here's the other part of the issue (as I see it): he may be going after trans-women because he doesn't see it as being necessary to do anything beyond FWB. In the same way that some portion of chubby-chasers (I may argue most, but that's for another time) go after their target demographic due to a perception that it's easier to get them into bed, perhaps men who fetishize trans-women do it because they think it's either (a) easier, and (b) requires/allows less investment than with a "real" woman.


Speaking as a guy who's mostly quiet during sex, I think it's just a different standard. Rather than being judgmental, though, I think that Dan's advice is correct, with a slight modification.

The problem is that we don't really know what WNITL is looking for, and her boyfriend is assuming she means she wants some sort of noise like "Mmm, oh, god, aaah". Gutteral moans and grunts. Dan's advice, though, would work if what she's looking for is (essentially) dirty talking.

That said, if she went to the boyfriend and asked it differently (not just "can you make more noise", but "can you tell me you're enjoying it, I really like it when you talk dirty to me"), she might get a different reaction. Moaning and panting might rub her fellow the wrong way, but telling her that it feels good, and how much he loves it when she does x,y, or z, might be more up his alley.

I know, for instance, that I would have a hell of a time trying to moan or pant, or whimper, or scream during sex. But, I've always been happy to extol the virtues of my girlfriend's actions, telling her how good it feels, how beautiful she looks doing it, ect.


I'm not sure we can assume it's selfishness or a lack of desire on his part. And, holy crap, when did "I'm gonna cheat on you" become a legitimate bargaining position? Jesus, are we really that jaded about relationships that we're so quick to jump to ultimatums and threats? "Give me what I want, or I'm going to get it from someone else" is more likely to backlash with most people.

But, consider how she presented it. Most vanilla guys would naturally think "making noise" takes the form that they hear women engage in during sex (or, at least, the stereotype); squirming, gasping, moaning, whimpering. The fact that he doesn't realize that she's probably looking for something more along the lines of dirty talk doesn't make him a villain.

Before we advocate "give up on him, he's not taking you seriously", perhaps we should advocate her presenting it to him in a way that will make sense to him.
She locks him up until Sunday morning? What happens on Sunday morning?

Jesus F. Christ, religionists sure are bizarre. Is it too late to not put them in charge of anything?
@23 the plastic numbered ties are a good one. There are companies that make all sorts such as:…

You can get a whole bag pretty cheap, and leave the guy in the cage with scissors and a cell phone if you go out. Normal lock and key when you are home if that does more for him.
I love the clever cage-escape ideas. :D
WNITL here, he is not lazy in bed and does exhibit non audible reactions to playing around such as biting, hair pulling, etc. he talks dirty when we're not actually having sex, but when when we talk about past or future sex. he's from ireland. i think the idea of being stoic as a male trait may be a cultural thing? but good point with the concentration thing- i realized that i am naturally quiet as well but sometimes play into the noise making to add to the experience and to communicate what feels good to me.
He's Irish? No wonder you want him to vocalize more...
I've found that most guys are a bit silent in bed. It's definitely a turn off.
OK About tranny Lovers : what is the point? are we talking chicks with dicks? If so, fine that I can see; you want both. But what is the point of dating a former man with a post op cooze ?The knowledge that they were(are?) men even if they no longer are ,visually? Im serious when I hear about tranny chasers I wonder what type of tranny's and why. I apologize for my ignorance in advance?
---Flyover GUY
sorry about the punctuation.
2 things for the last lady... get a copy of Gerald's Game and peruse, then rehearse the phrase... "It's a gun-safe," over and over.
Regarding MBIMP's issue:
I have to second all the emergency-out options for the cage itself. From my limited D/S newbie knowledge, I've at least heard of one box (as the producer called it) that had not just one, but two ways for the occupant to escape. I imagine that if the releases, devices, keys, and so on are cleverly placed, then it won't hamper the experience much, if at all. It would really, really suck to be that one funny but sad entry in a news blotter. Who seriously wants to be the guy that dies as a consequence of Play?

At the very least, key under the flower pot. That's the kind of thing I would do.
WNITL didn't just say that her bf is silent, but that his face also shows no expression. I've dated two men like this. Nothing in their facial expression ever indicated pleasure, although they certainly wanted sex often enough. I found it unnerving to fuck someone who just watched me expressionlessly - made me feel like some kind of experiment being dispassionately observed by a scientist..."She moaned when I moved like that... fascinating..." It's like screwing a robot. I've been with quiet guys who still smiled, got some raunchy look on their face, or at least contorted a little when something felt particularly great. But nothing? No sound, no expression? It left me flat and made me much less interested in having sex, or trying particularly hard to please my man. A lot of the enjoyment of sex is getting positive feedback that what you are doing is pleasing your partner. So this guy is getting lots of feedback and gratification from his girl, and she gets nothing from him to indicate that she's pleasing him, other than an orgasm. Which he could do on his own. Because WNITL says her bf became self conscious and uncomfortable when she decided to clam up during sex, my guess is this is a control issue for her bf. He likes being the orchestrator of sex and getting the self-affirmation of seeing that he was successful in pleasing his partner, but he doesn't feel any need to give her the same kind of affirmation. At least, that was the case with the two guys I dated like that. Eventually I stopped fucking them. WNITL should, too.
WNITL didn't just say that her bf is silent, but that his face also shows no expression. I've dated two men like this. Nothing in their facial expression ever indicated pleasure, although they certainly wanted sex often enough. I found it unnerving to fuck someone who just watched me expressionlessly - made me feel like some kind of experiment being dispassionately observed by a scientist..."She moaned when I moved like that... fascinating..." It's like screwing a robot. I've been with quiet guys who still smiled, got some raunchy look on their face, or at least contorted a little when something felt particularly great. But nothing? No sound, no expression? It left me flat and made me much less interested in having sex, or trying particularly hard to please my man. A lot of the enjoyment of sex is getting positive feedback that what you are doing is pleasing your partner. So this guy is getting lots of feedback and gratification from his girl, and she gets nothing from him to indicate that she's pleasing him, other than an orgasm. Which he could do on his own. Because WNITL says her bf became self conscious and uncomfortable when she decided to clam up during sex, my guess is this is a control issue for her bf. He likes being the orchestrator of sex and getting the self-affirmation of seeing that he was successful in pleasing his partner, but he doesn't feel any need to give her the same kind of affirmation. At least, that was the case with the two guys I dated like that. Eventually I stopped fucking them. WNITL should, too.
On a separate issue, both because this is a wonderful statement, but especially considering the controversy that came up about how African-Americans voted for Prop. 8, can this please be emphasized?…
@69--I assume that the letter writer meant a completely post-op transexual, so a person who looks more or less biologically feminine (so no, not a 'chick with dick').
As to why, it depends. It could be the thrill of being with someone who is straddling genders. It could be morbid curiosity (though I doubt it, if the advice seeker would go the trouble of wanting any sort of relationship). It could be that he feels that a tranny has perspective on gender issues that other partners lack. It could be that he is a closet transexual himself.
There are a lot of reasons for sexual attraction and sometimes no reason that one can pinpoint--it just is. Sometimes there is no "point" to sexual desire. It just exists.
Hi, I'm a huge fan Dan, but your advice to wnitl is extremely wide of the mark, imho.

To wnitl, you're not dating an Englishman are you? :-)

I'm English and almost silent (bar a bit of growling), and I'm convinced that all the wailing and moaning people do is because that's what they've seen on porn. If your man is quiet, it's probably because that's what he likes, and instead of listnening to Dan's assumptions about how he's repressed, how about considering why you can't just accept his word when he says he enjoys sex with you? Sounds like if anyone's insecure, it's you, not him.

As for all that teasing stuff Dan advises, that would get a girl dumped instantly if she tried it on me. I may be quiet, but I'm also sexually dominant and a bit of a brute.
MBIMP- stop putting up with so much. He says he wants to be controlled and be one of your things, but he is controlling you and your weekend, WTF? Your BF wants/needs control. (Maybe even a spanking? hehehe) And, he needs to understand that you are not his hand maid and he will be getting out of his cage and doing things to make your life better ASAP. (for instance, cleaning etc... and as needed, being an errand boy.) There are plenty of symbolic bondage items like cuffs or harness that he can wear, under his clothes as needed (at your discretion, not his!). Then he can go in his cage. Make him earn the privilege of using the bathroom without a chamber pot. Definitely make him earn sex.
(and I really liked the idea of keeping the glitter coated key by his cage)
Library, maybe that's just how your guy likes to concentrate on his pleasure. Mine is pretty quiet as well - but there's no doubt he likes it! Would I like him to make a bit more noise? Well, yes, but I'd also like a BMW 325i, a 5-bedroom house with a pool and a weekend with "Big" from Sex and the City (since I'm wishing, I liked him as Logan in Law and Order better) - it doesn't mean I have to have those things to be satisfied with life.

What Dan's suggesting is very controlling and, if someone did that to me, I'd DTMF so quickly he'd barely have time to get his shoes on. This sounds to me like your problem, not his.
Personally I love guys who are stone cold silent during sex.

Showing appreciation is not "extra" or something people do because they watch porn. It's natural, and expected. Let's put this into perspective:

How would you feel if you gave someone a present, and they didn't smile, say thank-you, or react at all? If you ask them, point blank, they say "Yes, I like it."

I'd stop giving them gifts!

If someone wanted me to give them gifts, and reacted like that, there would be something wrong with them, not me.

I'm not asking you to jump up and down and scream when you get a gift from me. I am asking you to smile and say "thank-you," or "I appreciate this."

And that's what wnitl wanted. She wasn't asking him to scream. She was just a little put off by the no smiling, or showing appreciation at all.

It's rude, ungrateful, and there is something wrong with him if he thinks being polite is somehow unmasculine.
@77, it's really funny because I've been thinking while I read all these comments that the guys who are "stone cold silent" during sex get that from mainstream porn- where ime guys hardly ever make noise, or they make, at most, grunts and comments. Sort of like "men don't react with extreme pleasure".

I think it's unfair of you to assume that just because you're not a noise-maker other people aren't really either. Everybody's different, but I think intense sensation brings out a desire to make noise in most of us. Stepping on a tack, for instance, most people will react vocally. And as a doula, I will note that there is a wide range of variation in women's noises during birth. Some women scream and holler. Some are stone cold silent, totally focused elsewhere. Some bleat! I would argue that natural birth is far less culturally influenced than sex noises are, simply because most people don't know what birth looks like.

That being said, I will say it's unnerving to be the partner of the silent guy. I used to accuse my ex of being a sex ninja. I think in the end it's not about them being appreciative or not, but just another incompatibility that either you suck up or move on.
I think that you might be onto something! I think that its funny that when you look at armature porn like Xtube you see a lot more vocal guys. (which may I add is a heck of a lot hotter!)

I know personally that I find it less then engaging and to be a turn off if my guy is not particularly vocal and is instead silent. I want to hear them, and hear that they are enjoying them selves. It's not like one has to be a police siren or something but don't act like your in a library other wise you are going to kill the mode!(as I can't imagine any being that silent all the way threw sex!!)
I agree with #82. You're not "supposed" to be loud or quiet or anything - people are just different in the ways they experience sexual pleasure. People are also different in what turns them on in bed. I'm pretty loud, and I prefer that my partner be vocal as well...not necessarily loud, but moaning or grunting or something. Then there are people like #80 who prefer their men silent. It's just another one of those things that you have to recognize as an incompatibility and try to work on.

It can be pretty fun to try and coax a sound out of a silent type...but it's also fun to try and keep a screamer silent! My ex was a very tender lover, but sometimes I like it rough. He tried to accommodate me, but he was uncomfortable with hurting me, though I asked him to. Once, we were having sex in his parents house (with very thin walls) and I was doing my best to keep quiet, but sometimes sounds escape. He kept telling me to try to be quieter, then all of a sudden, he put his hand hard over my mouth and gave me this look, like "if you make one more sound, you'll regret it." Hottest look ever.
@ 77 I'm a screamer -- or a "wailer and a moaner", if you prefer -- and I don't watch porn. So much for that theory.
@ 84... when he covers your mouth...

it's not the "if you make one more sound, you'll regret it"...

it's the "you will do as i say" look when he tells me to be quiet that is the hottest look ever... so Dom-like, take control, Alpha-male, sexually erotic look that makes you want to yell "OMG fuck me", but then, ...ooops, no yelling!
Dang I think you hit the nail squair on the head!
to ltl - if you're nice, pleasant, flirty-without-being-creepy, and just basically make yourself good company (and a good bed partner) to enough ladyboys who's services you pay for, eventually you may run across one that genuinely finds you attractive enough to see outside of work. if you get this vibe, try carrying on a conversation with her after the sexytime is over - if she lets it drag on (thus missing valuable customer time/off-work time just to chat with you) there's a good chance she'd consider meeting up after work hours. make a date, even if it's a stay at home date if you're not down with being seen in public with her. ladyboys get lonely too! and i'm guessing most of them are used to the whole closet-case thing, and are willing to deal with it if they like you enough. the crucial factor is that there's a genuine connection between you and her, that you have something to talk about besides sex, like each others company, etc... it might take a few paid sessions to work up to this point, as they probably have to fend off cheapskates looking for freebies on a regular basis...

but it can happen - i'm speaking from experience, and in my case i think everyone concerned was pretty happy with the fwb thing while it lasted.
oh, wait - you said you didn't want a hooker. i'd say that one's gonna be harder, for sure. it's a cliche but you might try going to every hair salon in a big city like san francisco, la, new york etc, and become a regular at the one with the trans girl who makes eyes at you?

i'm not just saying that cause of the crying game lol
I know I'm in the right place, when the sex advice includes planning for potential meteor strikes.
I see the Savage Love iPhone app, but where's the HD ipad version? We need Dan in HD! Don't leave us iPad users out in the cold!
Good advice for WNITL, Dan.

Honestly, WNITL---is it really so bad to have a quiet partner? "The sex is great--he just doesn't scream like a banshee and wake the neighborhood"? Is he showing signs of pleasure? Is he into satifying your sexual needs? Is he hard? Is he coming like a gorilla and seeing stars?

Count your blessings.
MBIMP- I'd be happy to bondage sit for a small hourly fee. 23 yr old female fairly new to the fetish world, and understands the importance of secrecy...
Grizelda where did you read 'the sex is great he just doesn't scream like a banshee?'
He's obviously NOT showing signs of pleasure and therefore NOT satisfying her sexual needs. Being hard is not enough.
How the F would you know he's coming like a gorilla- and how would she???
I'm dating the same guy- tonight. I think Dan was off on this one.

Please wait...

Comments are closed.

Commenting on this item is available only to members of the site. You can sign in here or create an account here.

Add a comment

By posting this comment, you are agreeing to our Terms of Use.