Columns Jun 17, 2010 at 4:00 am

Boat Party

Comments

1
Starting a relationship off on a lie is a TERRIBLE idea, even if the lie is just about age. Bad advice on that one Dan!
2
Whoa! Could I possibly be first?

Young is on an ego trip to even write a note like this...waaah.,..go get a real problem. How about this: date women somewhat closer to your own age!

Fascinating stuff on the hormones!
3
first post?! Im possible! and all the way from Scotland, too! Thanks for the insight, as always Dan.
4
i'm wondering how YOUNG dresses when he meets these women. if his clothing screams "20-something," that's not going to do him any favors.
5
Taking the pill for three years in high school completely ruined my sex drive. Two years after stopping the pill, I finally found someone I was interested in physically and felt comfortable enough with emotionally to lose my virginity. Despite the wisdom that came from my five years of confusion, I still feel like I was cheated out of some of my best years.
I didn't know my hormone levels could still be affected by this, which I think they might be since my drive is very similar to this woman's. Thanks for the column, as usual!
6
@1, I disagree. Starting a relationship off on a lie is not good, but when you first meet someone, that's not really "starting a relationship". At that point, you're just barely getting to know the person, and an innocent little lie about age is fine... to a point.
7
@4: I was thinking about posting that too. How does YOUNG dress? Still, some guys just look the way they do, and dressing only goes so far, and maybe that's his case.

I know this isn't every guy's preference, but what about a beard? Maintained stubble? Make sure your haircut is fairly appropriate too; if you want to look older (but not "old"), staying away from too much product helps.
8
YOUNG

Do what I do, when young girls ask my my age I reply:"Old enough to know better, but happily I dont" Gets them laughing. Second here's a idea STFU about your age. Its none of their business, keep it to yourself until they get to know you better.
9
plump lips and hairless forearms probably don't scream "too young for women your own age" as loudly as an Ed Hardy tee shirt does.

What do you mean "take measures to try to look my age?" Because not dressing like a frat boy might be a good start to not looking like one.
10
YOUNG: Tough. Stop bragging/whining. My hair started going grey in my mid 20s due to a congenital condition. Trade ya.
11
For YOUNG, what is wrong with saying "young enough to have fun and old enough to know what I am doing" and then laughing? Sometimes, a cheesy deflection can work :-)

If YOUNG is in fact looking for a woman his own age, there are things you can do with your appearance to "look your age" without doing much - popping your collar at 38 is just wrong, for example.

Also, Dan forgot one for PBJ - suck it up. Doesn't work much, but it seems to be what he is doing....
12
On YOUNG: My ex, now my buddy, is 40, but looks 25. Trust me, women of all ages LOVE this. Said ex has never had a problem getting women. If YOUNG is having problems, he should probably look to his personality or attitude in the moments of those first encounters - his youthful looks might just be an excuse that they're using.

13
@9 - a good way to do this would be to stop popping your collar and wearing plaid shorts. If you look like you could model for AE or Hollister, you are dressing younger than about 25.
14
Hmmm....my husband is 35 and frequently gets taken for a young 20-something. He just looks young, despite not acting or dressing particularly young. He gets it from his father, who is in his 60's and very easily passes for someone in his 40's.

It is what it is and I can tell you he certainly never let it affect his dating life. I liked my men older and he he liked his women older. So even with our 10yr age difference we still clicked.

Stop focusing on your age so much. Focus on what you want in a partner. Once you have that figured out it won't matter if they are 20 or 30 something. Good luck.
15
I can attest to the negative side effects when a woman's hormones are out of whack. I have excess testosterone from PCOS, along with a fantastic sex drive, chin hair, and minor hair loss on the crown of my head... still trying to save up enough to visit the endocrinologist.

It sucks, but my boyfriend still loves me.
16
How about the answer to the younger women of "Not quite old enough to be your Daddy." Make it sound sexy and a smidgen dangerous, like a dare. To the older women say, "How old are YOU? About 28 or 29?"; or "Why, do you think you might be too young for me?" something like that. You could also say some crap about the Six Million Dollar Man, Lindsay Wagner, and Charlie's Angels. That ought to prove it to them.
17
As a woman who has been through plenty of life's hormonal fluctuations – pregnancy and oral birth control included – I would advise Not Horny, Not Happy to think about consulting a good woman-supportive alternative practitioner before trying hormonal intervention.

Acupuncture and herbs can both have positive affects on hormones and libido. Raising a woman's sexual energy should be like raising the level of water in a pool – not like the cannon-ball splash of Viagra. Good treatment will make her feel more vital all the time, not just make her clit tingle now and then.

In our 20s is when the excesses of youth can finally catch up with us and affect our energy levels. Over-indulging in alcohol and grass can dull libido. It's important to have a good diet. Exercise helps. A good diet helps. Lighting up your sexual brain by reading erotica and masturbating helps. It's also incredibly important to make sure you're getting plenty of sleep. I have a pretty darn healthy libido, but it switches right off if I'm over-tired...
18
Great guests this week!

As for YOUNG, I find it hard to believe that the immaturity is only in his looks. Is it possible that you dress like a college kid? I'm 32. When I'm lounging in shorts and a ponytail, I've been mistaken me for a teenager. Nobody makes that mistake when I'm in business clothes. This is not to mention that what you talk about and how you act goes a long way to indicate age. I have a feeling that YOUNG seems young in more ways that one.
19
I wouldn't have an issue with an age difference (the gap between my husband and I is about what YOUNG is describing), but I'd drop him like a hot rock for lying to me.
20
As a woman in her mid-20s having problems with my sex drive, I really appreciate your answer to the first LR and the responses in many of the comments. I believe a combo of birth control pills and stress (just graduated from law school and the economy has killed any hope of gainful employment) decimated my sex drive. My doctor didn't really care when I brought it up, and I'll be losing my health insurance before I have the opportunity to find another doctor. I think the herbal/vitamin/exercise/acupressure route may be my most reasonable avenue now. Thanks for the suggestions, commentors!!
21
I have to agree with #1 - It's a bad idea to mislead or lie from the start of a relationship.

If I were the deceived party, I don't think I could ever really overcome the trust issue from a relationship partner that lied from the very beginning.

Sorry Dan. Not good advice on that one, in my opinion.
22
YOUNG is moasting: moaning + boasting. Write back when you have some real problems, you baby-faced weenie.
23
I'm hesitating to post after last week's roasting, but there's a middle ground on the hormonal thing. If she's got high SHBG, there are nutritional ways to lower it. Going on testosterone might not even work if her SHBG is high, the SHBG might keep increasing, keeping pace with the higher T.

If she has her hormones checked and high SHBG is the problem, she can try taking the RDA of calcium/magnesium/zinc. Zinc helps lower SHBG, she may want to consider taking double the RDA of zinc (check with your doctor). Also changing one's diet to avoid sugary and starchy foods will help lower SHBG over the long term.
24
Hmm...YOUNG sounds like a lot of guys I met when I was single and in my early 20's. He pursues women much younger than him, has a bullshit story about why women his own age don't like him, and worst of all plays the "guess my age" game (this comes across as condescending and also hints that you are self-conscious about your age, which is a big turnoff). He also seems to think it's somehow unfair that women in their early 20's tend not to be interested in him. In short: he sounds like an immature jerk.
25
I agree with everyone who thinks Dan gave shitty advice to YOUNG. When someone asks your age, just state it and don't try to get cute with "how old do you THINK I am?" crap. If women his own age think he's too immature to date, it's for damn sure got more to do with his behavior than his looks. Also, Dan claims he's earned the right to lie based on the behavior of a few women.... but what the women who are mature enough to judge him fairly based on the truth? Don't tell such stupid lies; they'll only bite you in the ass later.
26
Marrena, don't hesistate to post, because you're quite right. She should get her hormones checked, but testosterone supplements aren't the only way to fix this.
27
@17: Why don't you recommend she pray about it while you're offering useless placebos. Idiot.
28
Yeah, best advice for YOUNG is very simply: act your age.
29
Yeah, best advice for YOUNG is very simply: act your age.
30
I'm with 12. I don't think YOUNG's looks are the problem. "How old do you think I am?" reads as irritating no matter how many different inflections I imagine.
31
@27 re @17: Acupuncture is not a useless placebo--if you were at all up to date on the issue you would see that there have been a host of clinical trials that show that it is effective for some (not all, but some) conditions. I personally have had success with acupuncture to treat a host of lady-problems Don't call people idiots if you can't even do the research.

And re: herbs, how could herbs be a useless placebo? Ever smoked marijuana? Just because something is a plant doesn't mean it doesn't do anything to your body.
32
I'm with Geek Porn Girl. Not Horny is already getting the brush off from her doctors. Hormonal birth control works for some people, but I've never been one of them. I can only speak to what works for me, but there are natural herbal formulas designed to flush excess hormones from your system, allowing you to basically let your body start over and find its normal balance. I was a sexless and neurotic basketcase for a few weeks, but then everything settled down and I pretty much spent weeks masturbating eight times a day.

There are some great doctors out there that can help you monitor your hormone levels and find something that works for you. It sounds like you're having trouble with that though, so have no shame about finding a naturopath or even trying to wade through the nonsense on the interent. Good luck!
33
I quit all hormonal birth control after trying eight different brands, all of which caused severe side effects. It took nearly two years, but my body did return to normal eventually -- including my high sex drive.

NHNH should give it a few more months and try using different lubes, arousal creams, or a sex-toy like Luna Beads to help get/stay in the mood for sex. She might also experiment with non-hormonal BC like the sponge, Femcap, or fertility awareness, to see if no-condom helps.
34
Wow, I'm surprised you didn't call bullshit on YOUNG's last paragraph. Sounds like he's got age discrimination issues of his own and is making excuses to keep going after young girls.

Plenty of women in their 30s would love to have serious relationships with hot, young looking guys. I'm 32, my fiance looks 10 years younger than his age, is out of my league, and I love it.
35
The herb I was actually thinking about was the ayurvedic herb called ashwagandha. It's what is called a "normalizing" herb, in that it balances body systems and functions. It's considered safe at recommended dosages, and helps to balance mood and libido in women (I don't know that it won't benefit men, but my experience has been with women taking it). I've taken it for years with occasional breaks. It controls my PMS and if my libido was any higher, I wouldn't get anything done :)

As for the person who thinks acupuncture is a placebo ... pop another prescription, have a beer, and spend some more time wondering how generations of people can be so much dumber than you are.
36
@32
The problem with herbal remedies is that their effects are poorly documented and there haven't been any clinical trials, so you don't know WHAT you're getting. "Natural herbal formulas designed to flush excess hormones from your system, allowing you to basically let your body start over and find its normal balance." This sounds like a good idea??? Go to a good endocrinologist and get advice, not a naturopath. Sorry, when it comes to your hormones being flushed out, you want a real doctor! The herbs might not help, and they might do harm.
37
I share YOUNG's problem. I'm 47 but look about 35. I had a girlfriend who was seven years younger get congratulated on hooking up with a younger man. (God did that ever piss her off!)

I'm now engaged to a woman five years younger than I am who gets similar comments now and then. Fortunately she has a good sense of humor about it.

Pulling a Dorian Gray can really be a pain in the ass.
38
My husband is almost thirty and he looks like he's twelve. Okay that's an exaggeration, but he is regularly asked what high school he goes to. I live in fear of getting arrested when I kiss him in public.

"Really officer, he's 29! Get your driver's license!"

It's not as bad as looking older than your age in our youth obsessed culture, but it has an effect on his life. People are always talking down to him at work, and people tend to discount his opinions when they don't know him.

He's taken to (at work at least) dressing like he's forty, and that helps. He's learned all sorts of tricks for getting people to take him seriously. Posture, voice, word-choice. All of it matters.

My husband is actually grateful that he's beginning to go bald.
39
I am now 27, but when I was younger, say the last five years of my life, I ALWAYS lied about my age to be OLDER. I had several reasons: 1) I joked I could add 10 years of "life credit" bc even at 21, I had way more life experience than a lot of people even twice my age and 2) as I was interested in dating older people (as I felt older than my true early 20ish age) I didn't want them to think I was a young twit and incapable of dating an older person. Since I was so honest about everything else, eventually I casually revealed my true age along with the aforementioned reasons above, no one ever said it was a deal breaker and split with me.

And as I recently told one friend who lied about her age to be a little younger to be more appealing to the younger men she was interested in: You are not lying about your age, you are reaching your target market.

That being said, I don't think lying about his age one way or another is going to help YOUNG, bc it sounds like he has quite the learning curve to overcome when talking to females or writing to sex columnists.

@ Geek Porn Girl Could I webcrush on you anymore? You are too cool. :)
40
I had a friend in college who described that situation (guy looks hot until he turns around and you see his face) as "whoooooohoo!!!---wyeahhhggh!!" It was kind of like the noise one would make at a stripper on stage, abruptly turning into an elaborate gagging noise.

Here's what I think is happening with YOUNG. He hits on some 20-year-old girl in a bar. She notices he's older and asks his age, as a brush off. He considers this foreplay and asks her to guess. She guesses an age that she considers 'old' - like 27. He tells her he's actually 37, and she reaches for her mace.

Women closer to his own age are put off by his style of dress that screams 'older guy looking for a much younger girl'. They figure he's immature and probably underemployed, and probably rightly so.
41
I have to say, @33 has a point. The switch to condoms might have been a mood-killer in, and of, itself. There's nothing like less-reliable birth control to kill a woman's desire. (I know condoms are reliable in theory, but as we all know, shit happens.) Maybe she should consider other forms of birth control.

Topical arousal creams and lubes, etc. are also a good suggestion. Watch out for the ones that are irritants that might cause itching and burning. I like the KY warming lubes. I know they're not an exotic sex-shop brand, but they're reliable, at the corner drug store, and do the trick with a little extra on the side (the warming part).

Finally, if she sticks with condoms as birth control, she should be taking multi-vitamins that cover all of her pre-natal needs. This is true of any sexually active young woman if there's any chance she could become pregnant and follow through with the pregnancy. To reduce the possibility of some birth defects, there are some nutrients you need to have in place even before you know you're pregnant.

(Confidential to @39 – Awww.)
42
I'm a 21 year-old female seeing a 36 year-old male. My roommate is also dating a guy 15 years her senior. General consensus among my friends is that men in their thirties are more likely to have their shit together and are therefore more attractive than men in their twenties. So YOUNG should stop pretending women in their twenties aren't into older men. We are.

Perhaps the reason women of all ages aren't into YOUNG has nothing to do with his appearance and everything to do with his personality?
43
I think that Zestra might be a better choice than KY Warming, my two cents.
44
As a 20-something, if I was interested in a guy and he lied about his age I would go running in the other direction. I really wouldn't care if they were upfront about it, unless they made a big deal of it, like asking them to guess your age. Seriously? It isn't about the age, it's about being willing to strike out until you find someone who doesn't care.
45
As a young-20's lady who seems to attract older dudes, i must agree with the other sensible-sounding ladies. Dudes who counter with "guess my age" are an INSTANT turn-off. Acting like your obsessed with how much older you are than the person you are trying to date is a good way to make them incredibly uncomfortable. But just in case this isn't YOUNG's only problem (hey, you sound exactly like the guy who's trying unsuccessfully to get into my pants right now!), might I suggest you also not assume your age grants you wisdom over the honeys you're trying to bone.
46
When did women in their early 20s stop being interested in older men? I seem not to have gotten the memo (I'm 22).
47
Actually, I would dispute Dan's advice. I personally find that dating someone outside of a plus-or-minus five year window is not a good idea, as they're often in a much different phase of life. A guy in his late 30s isn't looking to start a new family like a girl in her 20s is likely to want, for example.

There are ways around the problem of looking too young. Cut your hair short, wear more conservative clothes, grow a mustache or a beard, look clean and neat. Speak in more formal English without slang. Wear glasses.
48
@42: Yeah, but let's admit it -- part of it is the looks. I like men who are not only older, but look older (not that I'd ever reject a man out of hand for looking any particular age, but I have my preferences).

"General consensus among my friends is that men in their thirties are more likely to have their shit together and are therefore more attractive than men in their twenties."

See, this just kind of re-inforces part of YOUNG's dilemma -- that many women like older men. His problem is that those women don't think he's one of those older men.

Women who do approach him do so because of his apparent youth so they aren't interested in his shit being together.

Women who DO like men of his age, and prefer those men in their 30s, stay away because he looks too young, like one of those guys in their 20s that have their shit all over the place.

You do still have a point, and it may still apply to YOUNG. I have a feeling it's either really just not his looks and it's a personality thing too, but it could also be that he's just not meeting enough women.
49
I'm with the people calling bullshit on YOUNG's problem. I know plenty of mid-20s to mid-30s girls and guys who would be thrilled to date an older guy who looks much younger. Especially the type of person who is interested in a serious relationship (so an older guy is a stronger possibility) but is physically attracted to young guys. So either YOUNG is chasing women who are way too young for him (as shown by the fact that he specifically talks about 21 to 23 year olds the whole letter), he looks desperate because he's also dressing and acting way younger than he is, or both. Take a good, hard look at yourself, YOUNG. Dress and act your age, and stop trying to catch 21 year olds. And if you genuinely aren't attracted to women older than 21, look for the female version of yourself!
50
IMHO, anybody who complains about "looking too young" is asking for severe karmic retribution. Nature has given you a gift. It might have an occasional drawback, but to sit around and bitch is unseemly.
51
@43 I wouldn't forgo Zestra as a option, but it's a short term fix. Products like Zestra work based on the premise that mild irritation produces swelling that women "confuse" with sexual arousal. This is the way most lip-plumping lipglosses work, too, with an irritant like cinnamon oil, etc. I still think working on raising her overall vitality is a good idea. That way (hopefully) her arousal will occur spontaneously and not 10 minutes after application with a 35-minute window of opportunity. Hell, I'd just be getting warmed up for a nice long power fuck by the time Zestra was wearing off.

Also – and this is important – Zestra is NOT safe for use with latex condoms, so she would definitely have to change birth control methods, or use polyurethane condoms.
52
Damn, forgot about Zestra and condoms! Scratch that.

As for overall vitality *cough*

Oh, what the hell, I've already survived being tarred and feathered here:

http://www.doctoroz.com/blog/orgasmic-di…

my-own-horn-tooting--let the pitchforking begin!
53
There are women in their early twenties who dig "older" (in their 30s and 40s)men, romantically and sexually. I'm one of those 23-year-olds.

Man, if I were single and a hot almost-40-year-old hit on me, WOO! There is something so hot about a man in that age range...more experience perhaps? Older but not too old?

Sooner or later YOUNG will meet an early twenty-something who is turned on by his age...if that's what he's looking for.
54
hey NHNH it has only been a month; i have been through the whole range of hormonal birth control methods and their affects on my libido and personality and after each change, it has taken me about three months off hormones to feel like myself again. i agree with everything Dan said - especially about giving yourself time to get horny again.
55
I think this was the most vanilla Savage column I've ever read. Just an observation. Where are the freaks?!
56
@35
What does 'normalizing body functions' mean? How does one 'balance' a libido (or a mood, for that matter)? What is the active compound in ashwagandha? What is your source? Not anecdotal, please.

@31
Acupuncture shows no difference from needle-insertion at non-qi-whatever points or from blunt needles that do not penetrate the skin. It has never been shown in a well-controlled trial to have a clinical benefit for anything, and since you just saw fit to provide anecdotal evidence for it helping treat your 'lady problems", perhaps you have a reference. Has it ever even been tested as a treatment for decreased libido?
57
@56--I think you need to come up with some reputable links if you are going up against the World Health Organization

http://apps.who.int/medicinedocs/en/d/Js…
58
Also

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles…

has some of the active compounds in ashwagandha. I doubt a libido-specific study exists because it is quite hard to get funding to do those studies, but I daresay I can find general hormonal research on the herb.
59
http://www.nutrition-herbs.com/articles/…

That explains that steroidal lactones in the plant act as hormone precursors.
60
@everyone talking about acupuncture & herbs
1. respect each other
2. acupuncture has some evidence for use, mostly in tension headaches if i remember correctly
3. sorry herbs, but no good evidence based medicine supporting their use in this issue, or any other that I can think of, maybe post-menopausal symptoms, but unsure of that, maybe there has been shown to be some placebo effect with them, which is fine, as long as it doesn't do you any harm or interact with any other medications you are on and tell your medical doctor you are taking it

One of the (many) differences between medical doctors and naturopaths/chiropractors/homeopath etc. is the use of evidence-based medicine in the treatment approach.
61
Boooring!
62
I'm with Dan's advice for NHNH but would like to make an addendum. I think some commenters above mentioned diet; there are certain foods that do increase testosterone and thus libido... in fact, http://www.libido-increasing-food.com. Basically, eat good fats (olive oil, avacado, etc), get zinc in your diet, get vitamin B in your diet, make sure you get enough Omega 3s (salmon, eggs, I think spinach has some...). Don't eat too many carbs, sugars, etc. Good luck.
63
@40 said: "Here's what I think is happening with YOUNG. He hits on some 20-year-old girl in a bar. She notices he's older and asks his age, as a brush off. He considers this foreplay and asks her to guess. She guesses an age that she considers 'old' - like 27. He tells her he's actually 37, and she reaches for her mace."

Allison M, that really made me laugh. I suspect you hit the nail on the head!!!

I have a co-worker who is 39 but everyone assumes is mid-twenties. He has a boyish face, is in good shape, and his clothes don't really broadcast an age (button-down shirts, unremarkable slacks or cordoroys).

But he's such a shy, low-key, sweet guy that women of ALL ages like him. Seriously, half of our female customers have crushes on him, from college girls to grandmas. His main worry with the ladies is turning them down without hurting their feelings. Also, he blushes bright red when women get all giggly around him.

I suspect that YOUNG has a very different personality than my coworker!

64
I'm a guy in his late 30s who has no problem attracting women in their 20s, 30s, or 40s (or in some cases their late teens - and no we did not date). I'm currently dating a woman in her late 20s and things are going very very well. Some women have been turned off by the age difference, some have not. I say: don't lie, it's not going to get you anywhere. Also, be yourself and dress how you like. What has worked for me is that I am passionate about who I am, young at heart, and also (most importantly?) genuinely interested in getting to know these women. Even some of the women who have been turned off by the age difference have confessed they have regretted that decision after they have really gotten to know me (yes, that does mean we are still friends - when I say genuinely interested in getting to know them I mean it).

If women of every age are turning you down, I would look more closely at your personality. Because the age line all the time thing sounds like a sign of something else.
65
Hey herbs people, it's all good, when you post some data. Herbs and accupuncture are of course subject to big self-selection and placebo effects, and it's really nonsense to tell someone to blow off a well quantified scientific approach for some voodoo. Not voodoo? Then post the data. And know what you're talking about: "not like the cannon-ball splash of Viagra. Good treatment will make her feel more vital all the time, not just make her clit tingle now and then." Really? Viagra and similar agents don't cause desire and don't make you tingle. They permit erectile tissues to work better when aroused naturally. No cannons, no tingle. And NOT what was being suggested anyway.
66
As a man who's passed the age of 30 (yet was carded on New Year's Eve while standing in a very unflattering light at a local bar) I call bullshit on YOUNG. His inability to maintain a relationship isn't due to his "youthful" looks, it's all in his persona. I'm a lecherous, chain smoking, tequila sipping, gambling prick of a man, yet I receive a few "introductions" to women every year because I portray myself as an adult (and not as some unaging frat boy). The women who I meet (whether our compatibility ratio is low or high) never seem to have problems with suggesting that I talk to one of their friends, etc. If he really thinks that it's his looks that are preventing women from taking him seriously, he needs to take a good look in the mirror (literally and figuratively) and get over himself.
67
My only thought is, "Who cares?" Could these really be the three best letters that came in all week?
68
The obvious response to the question "how old do you think I am" is "Never mind. Good bye."
69
#60 wrote: "sorry herbs, but no good evidence based medicine supporting their use in this issue, or any other that I can think of"

Are you insane? Do you know how many prescription medicines are based on ancient herbal remedies? You've probably got some in your medicine cabinet right now. Got aspirin?

Plants are the source of over 40% of the pharmaceutical medicines in use today in the United States. Much of that is based on anecdotal evidence passed down through the generations, by people who knew which herbs did what.

Some plants can kill you if you ingest them. Is that evidence enough that they contain chemicals which affect the human body? Jees.

The ignorance and arrogance of some of you anti-alternative medicine folks is shocking to me.
70
YOUNG sounds like a vain, self-absorbed douche, like the guys who write in to "complain" about how their friend's girlfirends always wanna hook up with them, or the guys writing in to bemoan the problems that come with their Really Huge Cock.
I suspect that, rather than his age/appearance discrepancy, that is what's turning the girls away once they start chatting with him.

I must also point out that even the young woman who find young attractive will start wondering why he is cruising girls instead of women. Not a good sign. The girls do have dads, and YOUNG is about as "young" as they are. Some are probably a bit creeped by that.
71
@57
Sham acupuncture more beneficial than re…
SEED Magazine article explaining why as …

@58
That's a study on the effect of the herb on preventing skin cancer in rats. That has absolutely nothing to do with increasing the libido in human women, and to suggest that it does is analogous to recommending NHNH use sunscreen.

@59
That website makes a lot of claims and has zero references. How does it boost immune cells? How does it increase sperm count? What does 'nourishing females' mean? How does it alleviate anemia? Where is a link to the supposed Alzheimer's study? 'Alkaloid' is massive category of chemical compounds, and to suggest that because nicotine, caffeine and morphine have them (but they're different ones!) and so does this herb it cures all is wishful thinking. Withanolide is only found in plants, and they make the claim that it can be used as a human hormone precursor, but give no references. In fact, the only hits in remotely academic locales are in regards to anticancer research, and nothing at all to do with libidos.
72
@60 no time to argue with you logically as i'm studying for medical board exams and you have no logic, sorry mate, after 4 years of med school my knowledge of the topic trumps yours
73
To NHNH: I've been thinking about your problem all day, actually. Read through the solutions offered here... I just find it hard to believe that less than two years on the pill could alter your sex drive permanently. Here's what I think you should do (because obviously I'm SUCH an expert)...

1) Tell yourself it is going to come back and don't despair. Get yourself to a more supportive doctor AND get yourself to a shrink if you can afford it. You sound like you've been through a harrowing time, and that could be affecting your sex drive PLUS you could be psyching yourself out. Orgasms are heavily mental for me at least, and if I'd been feeling out of sorts sexually for more than a year, I would be having a hard time getting my head back in the game.

2) Do Kegel exercises. Eat healthy. Exercise the rest of you too. It can't hurt. I know I'm more energized and happier when I'm doing these things, and this could all contribute further to your desire levels.

3) Don't just take vaginal off the table for a while. Take orgasms off the table too - at least for yourself. Remove the pressure - there's so much else that's fun about sex besides that. I remember when I first started fooling around and I made my boyfriend scream and bang his head against the headboard at the same time in a good way - that was kind of cool. Get some books on neat things to try in bed and read them; see if that gets you worked up or curious. Then read them with your boyfriend.

4)Kind of following from 3, turn your boyfriend into a science experiment. You love him, so you must enjoy giving him pleasure. Read up on all the cool stuff you can do to him and then set about blowing his mind and trying new things. If he feels guilty being on the receiving end so much, tell him you'll be collecting the debt when your sex drive comes back.

I guess my nutshell is to move forward on all fronts in addressing the problem, but not to confront it head on in the bedroom just yet. Improve your overall life, take an optimistic outlook and focus on anything but your sex drive in the bedroom for the time being. Instead focus on making the sex more interesting and fun.

I apologize if this seems obtuse or a "no duh" solution you have already tried. I don't want to be like those people who insist to the overweight that losing weight is easy or something.
74
#67 rocks!!! Women with low sex drive are so fucking boring. Just like the two fat dykes and their doritos and sourcream that Sandra sing loh sic,wrote about a couple years ago and Dan referenced. I'd rather date a twink femme than a lame ass who doesn't put out, and I'm a macho het. bear!!
A friend of mine is 51 and dumb little girls can't tell how old he is! He's grey and blonde but still their too dumb to figure it out.
75
You sound like somebody who SHOULD seriously consider dating 'twink femmes"; your homo radical is showing, mr. "macho het unBEARable!"
76
@71

http://www.dynamicchiropractic.ca/mpacms…

I posted the first ashwagandha link to show that there are compounds in the herb that do have proven medical applications, as you requested.

As for libido research, it's almost impossible to get goddamned funding for it unless you are studying a pharmaceutical, so I'm not surprised it doesn't exist. But I can hunt down the general hormonal references if you like.
77
Young needs to be pimped slapped. It's not his age, it's his self absorbed attitude that probably turns women off.
78
Sorry, that's "pimp" slapped.

It's a different time zone here.
79
Interesting--I think if there were hormonal research on testosterone or estrogen it would show up here:

http://www.raysahelian.com/ashwagandha.h…

Thyroid yes--and of course thyroid issues can impact a woman's libido, but I think the real issue is the herb's effect on nitric oxide. I'll have to do more poking around.
80
How do we know YOUNG is a dude? I thought it was a chick when reading it. Hm.
81
Hey guys, when you're taking herbs, keep in mind they're unregulated. That means that supplement you pay for may or may not be effective, or may not even contain any active ingredient. It may have expired. It may be extremely low quality. It may be pressed into pill form with all kinds of harmful ingredients, or mixed in oil form with all kinds of harmful ingredients. It may come in inappropriate doses. It may cause all kinds of unexpected side effects, like St. John's Wort counteracting birth control pills a few years back.

Here's a great example for anyone who likes colloidal silver. Anyone take supplement with colloidal silver?

If you do, you're being ripped off. Your supplement maker is lying to you and stealing your money, and selling you crap with NO active ingredient. And you should be grateful for that. Because the reason the medical establishment stopped using that stuff isn't that it wasn't patentable, or that big pharma couldn't profit off it, it's because it was turning people BLUE. Permanently. And not in a sexy, avatar kind of way, more like a three-day-old corpse. Still does, occasionally, when someone makes their own.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/22536241/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con…

I'm not saying your supplement can't possibly work, I'm just saying you're taking a few chances putting unstudied chemicals in your body, and you're quite likely being ripped off.
82
@69

Of course a huge percentage of pharmaceuticals are based on herb lore, and of course many of them are made from plants. BUT, these drugs have undergone years of clinical trials, as the herbal remedies in your local Whole Foods have not. That is the difference. It's not about being anti-alternative medicine, it's about being more about being pro-evidence based medicine, because it's much safer. It's not that herbs have no effect, it's that their effect is untested. Oh, and when I talk about evidence, I mean peer-reviewed, clinical trials.
83
NHNH, I mourn the death of your sex drive. It upsets me that common cures can have such strong consequences. Full evaluations of the hormonal consequences of birth control are long overdue. I live in the Great Lakes region and we swim in a freshwater hormone soup. Will this make us all sexless automatons? Who can say? I wish you a thousand arousals NHNH. May you hump a thousand trees.
84
I took birth control pills for close to a decade and it's taken over a year past quitting for my body to start changing. Libido is up, blood pressure is down, energy level is up, and my hair is falling out.
85
Could Geek Porn Girl (@17, 35, 41, et al) be any more crunch granola?

Pre-natals when you're not even trying to get pregnant, really? I had an unplanned pregnancy, didn't start taking pre-natals til 8-12 weeks in and wasn't really good about taking them until about 20 weeks (lots of upheaval and distress in my life made me forget a lot), and my son is healthy as can be. And herbs and homeopathic remedies are all fine and good, but she should still see a Dr. before starting any of that since internet research about those things is sketchy at best.
86
NHNH might want to check into sympto-thermal fertility awareness- it involves taking a daily basal temperature and noting it on a graph along with changes in cervical fluid and cervical position. These indicators follow a relative pattern throughout the cycle and if all is well, your hormones are good. If something is off, like ovulation doesn't occur, or there aren't at least 10 days between ovulation and menstruation, or your cervix dosen't produce fluid, or other problems you can observe, it will implicate a certain hormone. That way, NHNH can have a clue when talking to doctors and possibly save money on unnecessary tests. It's somewhat of a pain, and I wouldn't recommend it as birth control, but it's something for her to start on while she goes looking for a doctor who is better than useless on the matter. I suspect that might take awhile. (I also suspect that a complete hormone work-up by an endocrinologist would be really expensive and not covered by insurance without a medical reason, assuming she has insurance). If that's a problem for her- and it would be for me, she might try sympto-thermal first.

http://www.amazon.com/Taking-Charge-Your…
87
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned how unutterably rude it is to ask somebody's age within minutes of meeting. I'm 25 but look 17 and get carded for everything (and female if that matters). And if some asshole asked me how old I was in a bar or club, he'd get the big old cold shoulder from me.
88
Hey GeekPornGirl,
Regarding comment at #41:

There is issue to be taken with the idea that every
-potentially fertile woman who is
-sexually active
-and using birth control of 98% effecacy
needs to treat herself as potentially pregnant.

Really? By this reasoning we should ban all pre-menopausal women from chocolate, alcohol, coffee, tuna fish, psychiatic medications and many antibiotics. We should also prevent them from professions involving use of chemicals (like cleaning, lab work, manufacturing, trucking, medicine), lifting (consider baking, filing, military service) and (otherwise safe) radiation (such as dentistry, quarry work) and pick your end point. This is foolish.
89
Took me 6 months to normalize after going off hormonal birth control. Don't stress, it will come back.
90
@85: it's not a bad idea to take a general multivitamin that has folic acid (most of them do), especially if you're pale for your latitude, whenever you're doing things that might get you pregnant.

Absence of folic acid can, afaik, lead to some pretty nasty birth defects, even that early on, and it's destroyed by sun exposure, so unless you eat a lot of, er, whatever folic acid comes from, it's smart to take a multi that has some, as nutritional insurance.

In fact [pedantic mode] folic acid is probably half of the equation that makes it so that, fairly consistently throughout history and in different regions, people at a particular latitude tend to be within a particular range of skin tones. The reason people can't be too dark for their latitude has been known for a while (rickets from lack of vitamin D), but the link the other way wasn't known until fairly recently. If you are getting too much sun, along with fun stuff like skin cancer (which tends to occur too late to mess with reproduction rates much), you'll have a higher rate of birth defects because the folic acid in your skin is getting destroyed. [/pedantic mode]

(ask me some time about the probable science behind racial myths about penis size...)
91
I agree that Young's problem must be his personality, his clothes or both. If it's your clothes, lay off the t-shirts. At your age you should be wearing dress shirts or polos with the shoulder seams falling ON the shoulder. Pants should fit properly - not baggy. Nice slacks or dark-wash jeans with NO fading or distressing! Acid-wash is for kids!
92
NHNH - I have PCOS, and can testify to the negative effects of male hormones in women (acne, lots of facial hair, and hair in other places that you don't want it). I visit my endocrinologist for annual testing, and have been on medication for years to control my symptons. Enough about me. Go to an endocrinologist! Finding the delicate balance for your hormones is key.

Btw, I had a non-hormonal IUD for years. I loved not having to take pills, shots, whatever. It is the Paragard IUD, and once implanted, it provides pregnancy protection for up to 10 years if I remember correctly.

Good luck, you have my sympathy! :)
93
I think if I were YOUNG, any time a woman (regardless of her age) asked me my age, I would simply say it; if she has a prob w/it, I would move on. However, I also don't think lying about it is a great sin, as some folks here seem to think ("violating trust issues!" for heaven's sake...) - in other words, I'm down with #39, who says it's never really a deal-breaker for him.

But I suppose we'll always have closed-minded idiots like #47, who actually says "I personally find that dating someone outside of a plus-or-minus five year window is not a good idea, as they're often in a much different phase of life. A guy in his late 30s isn't looking to start a new family like a girl in her 20s, for example."

Tell that to Bogie & Bacall, among others.
94
To NHNH; Paragard IUD! Best decision I ever made regarding my sexual health.

To YOUNG; not all ladies are scared off by older men, but you need to tell them at the right time. I knew that the man who later became my fiancee was significantly older than me and he knew that I was quite young, but we didn't reveal our exact ages until our second date. Three years later we're planning our wedding and our families and friends care more about what they're going to wear to it than our 15 year age difference.
Perhaps the trick to finding the right lady is finding one that doesn't ask your age within 10 minutes of meeting you.
95
HNHN, I have the same problem and also decided to ditch the birth control that I was on for two years. I wouldn't say that my libido is back to normal, or even really back, but there are glimmers of hope that it may come back. My advice to you is to pay attention to your body more often. If you are walking down the street and you actually notice that someone is attractive (which never happens when your libido is shot), then hold on to that moment. Try to turn yourself on throughout the day. Think about sexy things or read a trashy romance novels during lunch break. If you start re-training your body to think/act/be turned on when there is absolutely no possibility of sex happening, then it seems to make it easier to get turned on when there is the potential for sex. Or at least that is what I have been doing and I am seeing some improvement on the libido front. I wish you the best of luck and want to let you know that you have company in this situation.
96
@76/79

I wouldn't exactly trust the website of the dude selling the stuff with reports of its efficacy. And the fact that the "exact dosages and extract potencies of" the Passion Rx marketed as a sexual enhancer to men and women are a "close kept secret" is a HUGE red flag.

The studies on that site are interesting, but do not speak to this herb's effect on libido in the least. It's not surprising that a plant has antimicrobial properties. There's a bit of evidence that something in the mix has antitumor or protective effects against some types of cancers. And a bit of evidence that something in the mix may increase NO production at the transcriptional level, but it's a huge stretch to say that's going to have an effect on sex drive.

And the only mentions of thyroid involvement are the anecdotal emails at the bottom.
97
I am a 24yr old male that is 5'9'' 180lbs. I am a good looking guy with a a good career, however, I run in to the same thing that YOUNG is running in too. I am baby faced as hell and get carded for everything, while I was in ATL I was carded to make sure I was old enough to drive. I could easily pass for 17 or 18. The main difference i find between myself and guys that are 18 is the way you talk to women and the way you carry yourself. It is easy for people that are 18 to identify me as older. However, girls my age typically think I am much younger. YOUNG i know what you are dealing with and happy hunting.
98
@ YOUNG, i dont get why you cant just say "i'm not comfortable disclosing you my age yet"... that way.. you dont even need to lie...
99
Ray Sahelian does pimp out his products pretty heavily but his references are always sound. I'm not saying anyone should buy the PassionRx thing--proprietary kitchen sink herbals are ALWAYS a bad thing to take.

I'm not terribly motivated to look into the herb's effect on NO. I've never tried the herb myself and don't know much about it.

100
Think schmacky (#50) has nailed it. And I think countless others are correct in saying perhaps it's not his looks that are the problem... perhaps it's the attitude.

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