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800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
What is up with that?
If you're flattering your exes by telling them that you like chubby girls and you think their curvy bods are amazing, that may still really sting. I had an ex tell me that I shouldn't feel self-conscious about my big butt, because he loved it. As an awkward, shy teenager - that really didn't help matters. Be honest about being attracted to them, but you don't have to slather it on - you don't need to keep bringing up the fact that you love them for being big. It can take us girls some time to get comfortable with our bods and ourselves.
The internet is your friend: Poly@polyamory.org is a mailing list devoted to polyamory, and maybe it will help you connect with people in your area who might also be interested in poly speed dating. The poly people I know sure seem to do a lot of dating...
Alex Dunne
Spot on advice, Dan, to LIFE and THIN!
and THIN, if you ever mention to them that you are attracted to them because of their weight, then you probably are making it worse.
If you choose to get involved with another Big Beautiful Woman who is still coming to terms with the twin facts of her bigness AND her beauty, I'd suggest patience, patience, and more patience. Telling someone she's beautiful doesn't actually do any good. Showing someone she's beautiful and that you want to be with her will give her the safety to work on her problems -- if she wants to.
And in that theoretical future relationship, if you see evidence that she's working on it, I'd encourage you to stay the course and keep being her safe person for those months (or longer) that really dealing with these issues can take.
As someone who has been invovled with mentoring several young women and men who have explored potential vocations as an Episcopal priest, I would certainly say that your kink should not be a major issue. If you truly called to the priesthood, you will be called in the totality of your personhood, kinks and all, and the unconventional perspectives about the power dynamics involved in human relationships which you gain from your involvement with bondage may inform and serve your ministry.
That said, WOK, I would advise you not necessarily to rush into ordination -- not because you are gay or into bondage, but because you are a young man. Get some life experience first, get a non-Church job, maybe go abroad, do some lay ministry. It will allow you some space and perspective in which to consider whether you truly are called to the ordained ministry and ultimately make you a better priest if you are.
Yeah, THIN, I smell what you're stepping in. Take the above advice to heart: Tell your gf she's looking especially pretty today, or that outfit makes her look hot, keep everything non-specific and general.
That being said.... Consider older women. They're generally more confident in their bodies and themselves.
What is up with that?
Uhhh...it means Dan edited it but didn't write it...
This is a collection of letters written by Dan's readers. Dan collected them, edited them, and made a book out of them. He did not, however, write these letters himself
This goes against what a lot of people are saying here, but the comments that helped me the most were ones that indicated he likes that I am curvy, and when I hear that some of his favorite celebrities are the curvy ones with bodies like mine. If he avoided talking about my body and commented instead only on my face or hair or whatever, it would make me think he felt my body was a flaw he needs to overlook. If he were to never mention my body, I would assume he doesn't like it.
YOU FUCKING SUCK! Abortion rights are literally being taken away from women. You do NOTHING to put that message out there - call your rep, call your Sen., talk to your friends - do every damned thing possible to tell American gov't to leave women's rights the hell alone....yet you'll peddle your repeated messaging about bullies ONLY in the lgbt communities.Newflash - women have been at the forefront of EVERY MAJOR CIVIL RIGHTS CAMPAIGN, but in ensuring basic healthcare access for women? It's all ladies.
I've got a message for you, but Cee-Lo sings it better.
What Poster 15 said.
I work with the Episcopal Church as a vendor. If you are going to be a young priest then please for the love of god be a useful one.
The church is a business and you need to get business skills. For example you may want to go into evangelicalism. If so you need marketing skills.
No matter what your ministry is you will need real world skills to manage it.
Take a few years to get these skills, save money for school and make sure you are truly called.
And a number of parish priests' very small openings!
I'm a proponent of trusting what I'm being told & not reading too deeply into it; odd, I know, for a shrink. So my advice is as follows:
Femme, I think you're right to trust what she's telling you. I suspect her concerns are indeed about her age. Sad, actually, to think that if she were a man she'd likely have no reservations about the age difference. But she's spent her life being told what women of a certain age shouldn't do, and dating a hot young woman is on the top of the list.
Let her know that you're starting to become concerned that the end is near and that regardless of her reasons, it's still a rejection. Challenge her to make peace with the age difference and agree to pull it off the table. It's certainly not fostering safety within the relationship.
Use discretion with compliments on and attitudes toward weight.
When we were first together I was more explicit about it and it wasn't well-received. It's not that he didn't believe me - i mean, he saw the type of guys I'd look at online - but he wants to be thinner for his own self-esteem and well-being. Personally, I think it's good to respect that too. But that said, I'd be with him if he lost weight too (of course, "how much" is a subject for debate). So I just do my best to love him with my body and mind and don't go much further than complimenting (from the neck down) on his clothes. He seems much happier about that.
ALSO, pre-ordered IGBP book for my high school library. Don't know if they'll accept it or not...but it is PUBLIC school, so they may well be pleased to receive a brand new book.
If someone likes what they see, they have every right to say it - it's incumbent on the woman in possession of said set of fashionably questionable curves to learn to take a compliment.
The problem, THIN, is your age. You say you're 19, so I'm guessing that if you're not in college, you are probably dating at least a few girls who are. College means the freshman 15 (or 30, or 45), so for a lot of these girls their chubby status is probably a) new, and b) thought of by them as an aberration that will disappear within a few months as soon as they start that all-lettuce diet and make time for a five-mile run every day. Not only are they still deeply uncomfortable with being chubby, but they probably don't know how to react to a man they may like, but who is attracted to a quality they're actively trying to minimize.
As you get into your 20s, you'll find a higher percentage of women who are cool with their bodies. Of course, you don't need to wait for your 20s if you don't want to - just date some older women. I can pretty much guarantee that, unless you're in a town with a population over 400, there's at least one chubby 30-something who wouldn't say no to a skinny teenage boytoy. Have fun!
hi dan. another boring hetero guy here. i'd like to suggest coulter as the annoying blockage that occurs from dried semen on the end of the dick after sex or masturbation. it's annoying and so is ann. thanks!
That is, traditionally, what "edited by" means.
Number one, it's not your responsibility, it's theirs.
Number two, it's hard to trust someone who's constantly trying to shove sunshine up your butt, because after a while it starts coming off as disingenuous.
Number three, when you're always trying to boost someone, every compliment can amplify their self-loathing. They know that you're aware of their self-esteem issues, and your "constant effort" to boost their self-image can begin to feel like a criticism. Compliments are most effective when they're sprinkled, not showered.
And Dan's right, don't fetishize women because their big. Initiate conversation because they're big and you're attracted to them, start dating them because you like them as people.
It's like being racist but having a fetish for Black women. At some point, there going to sense your inner conflict and it's going to make them feel like shit.
You should work on yourself, and on seeing fat women as normal women. If you're ashamed to be dating them, then their self-esteems going to take a major hit, whether you're complimenting their fat asses or not.
And @ 41, I hadn't noticed, but now that you point it out, he handled size issues tangentially, bi/poly at least in terms of etiquette, and female age concerns...all without setting off a shit-storm. All kinds of warm fuzzies here in the thread.
Sorry.
Being with a chaser complimenting me on my size would just make me thing I'd lose him if I was ever at the size I want to be.
I don't want to speak for anyone else, especially women, but I think I'd be happiest with someone who thinks I'm attractive now but would find me more attractive if I weighed less. I do think that most fat people would prefer not to be fat. That doesn't mean they're unhappy with themselves, it doesn't mean they'll ever lose weight, but being slimmer does represent their self-ideal. I'm perfectly happy with my income but would I prefer to be filthy rich? Hell yes. If THIN is looking for women who would rather be fat than thin, I suspect he's limited to a fairly small subset of women.
In chatting with the organizers, was really impressed with their planning and database skills! They had straight, gay, bi, TG, and TS folks, poly couples looking for a third, single poly people looking to meet other poly people, and probably other configurations, and actually managed to arranged enough "dates" for everyone (of course my friend the "unicorn"--hot bi poly single girl--was the wild card who left with more numbers than, well, anyone).
(http://www.polyspeeddating.com/ for SF locals who want to check it out.)
I'm a fat chick, and it helped my confidence a lot when I had a boyfriend who didn't treat me as some abnormality and didn't fixate on my weight, but complimented me and treated me like just a woman he found attractive. If I wore something sexy, he'd say, "damn, you look sexy." If you think her fat ass is amazing, just say, "Your ass is amazing." Don't make it about the fat, make it about her.
And, while your at it, it can't hurt to advocate for fat acceptance. I don't care how you feel about health issues, etc. Poor nutrition and lack of activity is a problem for most people in the US, and yet fat people receive the most crap. Nothing helps confidence more than not having it shattered in the first place. A woman who's into fat acceptance has likely also made peace with her body, or is in the process of making peace with her body. Also, don't treat us like we NEED confidence boosting. I've had men act like I surely hate my body and need their approval, and that's a huge turn-off.
And most of all, don't be ashamed of any fat woman you date. That's the worst, and likely to make any confident fat woman run away fast. Good luck.
I'm confident that my boyfriend finds me attractive, and I enjoy hearing compliments about my body - but if he said, "you're so hot BECAUSE you're SO BIG..." sorry, but that would be a turn-off.
"I love your boobs;" "I love your ass;" or simply "you're beautiful" are all just fine.... ;-)
If a woman considers herself full-figured, curvy, rubenesque, BBW, or whatever, more power to her and I'm happy for her! But I don't want to be fat, and when I was 60 lbs heavier the last thing I wanted was fat fetishists lusting after me! I wanted to lose weight and I needed all the support I could get. The last thing I needed was something/someone that would interfere with that goal.
"I don't and will never consider my size who I am."
I feel the same way! Or rather, I always think like I am actually a lot bigger than I really am. I was a fat kid and I think the hell that being fat+gay put me through then has manifested both as a self-image and as a fetish in my adult life.
IMO, the issue of his sexual orientation will depend on his diocese and the attitude of his bishop. Diocesan bishops in the Episcopal Church USA are pretty much where the buck stops. So if WOK finds a broad-minded bishop in a more socially liberal dioceses, his gayness shouldn't be an issue.
As far as the bondage...well, let me put it this way: if he were my bishop and he had a committed partner with which he was indulging his tastes then I would see it as none of my business, any more than I would see it as my business if it were my own rector and his wife.
FWIW I second #64's suggestion of seeking out an ordained mentor. One thing I've always loved about the Episcopal bishops I've met is that they're utterly approachable. Another bishop I know who supported Gene Robinson's ordination is Rt. Rev. Thomas Shaw, bishop of Massachusetts. I had the privilege of meeting Bishop Shaw some years ago while on retreat at a monastery run by the order he belongs to (the Society of St. John the Evangelist) and I remember him talking about it.
Bishop Shaw also throws some mean pottery. :-)
Wha....? I know Dan supports women's rights. But timing is everything. This shit is urgent! Attention Gay Men: Your mothers birthed you. Do them and all womankind the respect of standing with them for rights. Google NARAL, visit it, and sign the petition.
What I'm saying and what you & probably most people don't know is:
The Anniversary of Roe V. Wade was last weekend and the House just passed a "No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act." in addition to making the dismantling of Roe V. Wade a top priority. This is URGENT here!
Currrently, funding for abortion gets decided at the top of every year. They never fund it, but w/ the new bill it CHANGES THE LEGISLATIVE CODE so that an bill for funding abortion CAN NEVER be brought to the legislation floor. Insanity! The author of this bill just last year opened a VA clinic. Despite the reported 28% sexual assault record against female soldiers BY THEIR OWN TROOPS, Rep. Chris Smith blocks access to both abortion to military women and penalties to military rapists. He clearly does not represent female citizens.
Homophobia is rooted in mysogyny - you know soldiers don't want gay dudes bunking w/ them because hetero soldiers feel entitled to sex w/woman and they're worried gay soldiers will have the same attitude toward men.
I haven't listened to Dan's lastest podcasts - so if he's mentioned anything about it, great. He hasn't put anything in print form although it's timely & necessary.
You've got outright liars like Abby Johnson, former director of Planned Parenthood, who quit because she was about to be fired then turned around and went "pro-life(anti-choice)" feeding into the new hysteria that PP is literally making money off abortions. Despite the fact most of their work is in prevention of pregnancy & stds & maintaining excellent reproductive health for both men & women.
So, I ask all of you, dear Savage Readers, to call your representative and demand they represent pro-choice America and all women nationwide.
We're talking about women's self esteem here? How about men's? Men wouldn't take away people's rights if they weren't insecure. The level of entitlement our reps have shown have their roots in the religious movement, military & general pop culture. Ladies, fuck 'em. Women w/ a little weight - go w/ your bad self & thin dude - chill.
Thanks~
Why don't you go bug them and leave us alone?
Do NOT talk with your bishop or your mentor about your kinks. No one needs to know. What you do at home is what you do at home. Be discreet.
If you care at all about the church, you will not go to Folsom Street Fair. Speaking from intense and painful personal experience, those on the right in the Episcopal Church who are tearing it apart from the inside are seeking any possible excuse to discredit you. Don't give it to them. (Don't feed the trolls!) Don't put yourself in a situation where they can use your sexuality or preferences against you. As a priest, if your call to ordained ministry is real, you choose to give up some personal freedoms. One of them is participation in some kinds of public sexualities. Right or wrong, that is what it is. And your love for your Church, if you want to serve it as priest, should be greater than your love for Folsom Street.
I'm an Episcopalian and a lay leader in my parish. As others have said here, the key is establishing what your diocese's position is on ordaining gay men and women. I don't think that any diocese which ordains gay people is going to have a problem with bondage in a monogamous relationship. If you are in a very conservative diocese you may have to consider moving to a more liberal one after you finish college, which would slow down your path to ordination a bit, but as you are so young I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
If you are at college and your campus has an Episcopal chaplaincy, that would be a good place to start exploring your vocation as they are likely to be positive about vocations for younger people. Other advice I would give to anyone your age considering ordination: pray a lot, get a spiritual director (ask your priest to put you in touch with someone), get involved in lots of lay ministry, go on retreats organized for people considering ordained ministry, spend a couple of years after college working - and not necessarily in a churchy job. You may be surprised to find some kind of calling in something outside the church.
It may be frustrating to put this on the back burner for a couple of years, but your ministry will ultimately be better informed by extra time spent discerning God's will. And don't forget that the formal discernment process itself can last a long time - some people are in it for years - so you need to have some way to support yourself during it. Another thing to ask yourself is, am I specifically called to *ordained* ministry? There are plenty of forms of ministry that don't require ordination.
Um, "can't handle it"? That seems harsh/ judgmental. How about just "who are looking for something monogamous/simpler/else."
As a friend of mine says, poly is twice the fun and four times the work. And some people are mono; I agree they shouldn't force poly people into their lifestyle, but by the same token, they should not be denigrated for wanting what feels right to them.
That said, this could all change tomorrow.
To test, remove "dan and" from the sentence and see which one sounds correct:
"put me in an advice column death match"
or
"put I in an advice column death match"
To test, remove "dan and" from the sentence and see which one sounds correct:
"put me in an advice column death match"
or
"put I in an advice column death match"
I think that your comments are basically spam. They perhaps contain a nugget of relevancy, but you are really just using that nugget as a pretense to selfishly advertise your own projects. And it's fucking annoying.
Only a few people are doing it now, but I would hate to see the comments section turn into a space where people are just shilling their own products. I really hope your comments will be removed as spam in the future.
YOU GO GRRRL!
Although I don't agree that Dan sucks, we could use some cross-support on the choice issue.
Maybe THIN, your lack of confidence makes you aim low--why would chunky girls turn your down when it's already hard for them to get a date--and maybe said "chunky girls" can sense this. Playing it safe isn't sexy and doesn't make your partners feel sexy.
Speed Disclosure: on your name tag, below your name, write, "Bi, poly." Then you start by asking questions before the other person does. If they won't answer and fixate on "bi, poly," then you know you don't have a match. Why would you invest a second, third, or fourth date in someone who does not want your lifestyle?
And, as others have pointed out, you may come across as a creepy fetishist. Are you a creepy fetishist, THIN? Remember, the psychological definition of a fetish is an attraction to a non-human object. I know, that's not the colloquial use of the term, but it's telling - many people who fetishize a particular type of person DO end up treating them in much the same way they would a sexy, non-human object. This tendency can become worse if the attractive quality the person represents is one that society itself sees as lesser. It's okay to have a strong attraction to big women, but acknowledge that they are *women* first and foremost, your attraction is just icing on the cake.
predilection for bondage and my desire to pursue ordained ministry conflict"
Here is a documentary about a gay man both working toward getting ordained and also participating in master/slave puppy play contests:
http://www.wiseorchid.com/pupumentary/
That is just not how the word is used: if it was ever used in only that way, it's been taken over by fat people wanting a nicer-sounding word to use, much the way "voluptuous" has.
What I say may be very un PC...but have you considered black girls. My black friends simply do not have the same hangups about body size that my white friends do. Both the men and the women.
Of course this may be moot. Maybe you are already dating all colors.
Watch the TV Drop Dead Diva or Oprah....or otherwise learn a bit more about personality, pride, and carriage of a person and learn to be attracted to people who don't need you to "make" them feel good.
My guess is you're striking out with your chicks is cuz you haven't found your own confidence yet so you go for unconfident girls. Despite what you say about embracing yourself and your own body, ya really haven't. Perhaps you're looking for a girl to "make" you feel ok. You'll find neither confidence or a confident girl if you don't truly feel comfortable in your own skin.
The advice about listening was the best. But if you hear a girl say, I want to lose weight, poor me, simply say, I like you the way you are. Then dont pursue her anymore. You want a big chick who says...Hey let's dance, you skinny cool guy!!! Get a person who already likes who they are and who likes you the way you are.
I'd be inclined to describe someone as "curvy" as long as her traditionaly desirable curves (ie breasts, hips/butt) stick out more than (traditionally) less desired ones like belly and limb diameter.
1. My current arrangement w/ the bf is that he approves on a case-by-case basis. So far it's been fine in that regard; he's comfortable so long as he's well informed, and I'm very good about that. If anything I prefer to err way more on the side of ensuring his comfort than hitting on all the hot guys (and some hot girls) there are around here.
And seriously, there's so much eyecandy here! Pity that a lot of 'em are less than 1/2 my age + 7.
2. I used to live in SF Bay Area, and am familiar with the whole poly cultur thing, but I'm currently elsewhere. It's a very large, liberal university town. The dating event is being held by the university.
3. Dan omitted the "recently" modifier of "long distance". To be honest I'm not really looking for another primary; the amount of compatibility I have w/ my bf is way more than I've had with anyone else, and he fulfills to satiation most of my needs. But given the distance, I'd just like to have some sort of nice, relaxed, friends-and-benefits situation here too, to fulfill more my needs for touch, in-person companionship, & sex.
I won't be here for more than a year or so, so honestly I'm also a bit leery of starting another long-term relationship here.
I guess I'd rather select for smart/hot than bi/poly per se, in that I figure I can explain that part to most people who don't necessarily participate in the whole "poly community" thing, which... well, I don't really do either.
To be a bit blunt... I'm actually slightly uncomfortable with the "huge network" style of poly. I'd rather have a comfortable little triad or quad, or share someone who's in another diad. That's just me-personally comfort, not making any judgments about what works for others of course.
But Dan's right, if they're not cool with it, then that's automatic disqualification.
I'd probably at least wear one of my rainbow pieces of clothing or triangle pins just as an obvious queerness signal.
Other suggestions welcome.
1. My current arrangement w/ the bf is that he approves on a case-by-case basis. So far it's been fine in that regard; he's comfortable so long as he's well informed, and I'm very good about that. If anything I prefer to err way more on the side of ensuring his comfort than hitting on all the hot guys (and some hot girls) there are around here.
And seriously, there's so much eyecandy here! Pity that a lot of 'em are less than 1/2 my age + 7.
2. I used to live in SF Bay Area, and am familiar with the whole poly cultur thing, but I'm currently elsewhere. It's a very large, liberal university town. The dating event is being held by the university.
3. Dan omitted the "recently" modifier of "long distance". To be honest I'm not really looking for another primary; the amount of compatibility I have w/ my bf is way more than I've had with anyone else, and he fulfills to satiation most of my needs. But given the distance, I'd just like to have some sort of nice, relaxed, friends-and-benefits situation here too, to fulfill more my needs for touch, in-person companionship, & sex.
I won't be here for more than a year or so, so honestly I'm also a bit leery of starting another long-term relationship here.
I guess I'd rather select for smart/hot than bi/poly per se, in that I figure I can explain that part to most people who don't necessarily participate in the whole "poly community" thing, which... well, I don't really do either.
To be a bit blunt... I'm actually slightly uncomfortable with the "huge network" style of poly. I'd rather have a comfortable little triad or quad, or share someone who's in another diad. That's just me-personally comfort, not making any judgments about what works for others of course.
But Dan's right, if they're not cool with it, then that's automatic disqualification.
I'd probably at least wear one of my rainbow pieces of clothing or triangle pins just as an obvious queerness signal.
Other suggestions welcome.
But, me, I'm also looking for short-term adventures. So what I recommend thinking about ahead of time are some cool adventures you'd like to do (film fest, clubbing, kayaking, whatever's your thing) -- then see if you can find someone at the speed-dating thing who also thinks those adventures sound like fun.
(Though looking at it, I guess it's true that though my libido is highish, sex isn't as important for me compared to those other things.)
I probably wouldn't initiate physical dates like kayaking just because it's not really familiar to me (and honestly I've never really had "dates" in the usual sense, so my imagination for those kind of more typical dating ideas is poor). I'd probably be willing to go along for that if the other person suggested it, though, as I'm happy to try anything twice that's not too dangerous or unethical.
You make a very good point, that the short-term restriction is more likely to be something to be upfront about, since (unlike bi/poly) it changes what kind of relationship we'd have. Thank you.
Entirely possible it'll turn out to be a "straight" even with a second "gay" one.
"The church is a business..."
I'm glad _someone_ w/in the church publicly admits this.
Money is given to you, tax-free???
Cha-CHING!!!