Columns May 18, 2011 at 4:00 am


I agree that hair gets in the way. I shaved for awhile, until I started getting rashes/ingrown hairs. In consultation with my partner (whose more enthusiastic about going down on me when I'm shaved) we've compromised. I use a beard trimmer to get the whole lot down to about 5mm/fifth of an inch). This length isn't stubbly, it's not too long as to get in the way, it's quick and easy to do, and the absence of a razor/wax means I get to keep my skin healthy. Win for everyone!
Kudos to you, A Williams (@1). I just sent your eloquent comment to my Congressman, who voted to defund PP here in TX (even though he's a Democrat).

@also-small: I agree that publicly speaking up for small-dicked guys isn't likely to do much good, but you could at least tell your tactless friend that you'll quit topping him unless he cuts out the trash talk.

@83 - "Dating leads to marriage or it leads to breaking up"? WTF?? My guy and I have been happily dating for 5 years, with no plans to marry OR break up. Get out of your box now and then, it's nice out here.

And finally -- I know a great dick joke, but it's too long to fit here.
Late to comment, but if anyone's interested, the topic of clit sizes previously came up - in more detail - in this column:…
@CMA: You're an asshole. Good luck with your unyielding sexual preferences. Maybe you should invest in a blow-up doll with a big zipper between her legs.

@SMALL: Tell 'em to fuck off! Size isn't important---you are.

That's my two cents. Dan, you ROCK!
FP, I have some good news for you. When I met my OH, I'd just amicably split (moved away for uni) from a guy with a 9-inch long, 3+finger wide guy.

My OH was born with some deformities in the blader/bowel/genital area and, after spending an entire childhood having reconstructive surgery, was left with a heavily scarred, somewhat misshapen and significantly below average cock. He was also patient, open-minded, willing to experiment, a great listener and a very attentive lover. Above all else, he had a sense of humour about sex and had no ego about it.

Our first night together was only meant to be a one night stand, but 8 years later he's still hands down the best lover I've ever had, and he only gets better at it.

That doesn't mean every small guy is going to be a great lover, or that big guys aren't good too. But don't worry that size will unavoidably be a deal breaker. Sexual compatability between two GGG people gets better over time.
@98 Waxing makes me bleed. Trust me. Not on the edges when I get a bikini, but if I go all the way it doesn't matter who does it, how much I pay, and how nice the fricken wax is, I will bleed. Don't assume that those who like their hair and the benefits of having it (no chaffing, biological advantage of smelling good to men, trapping of pheremones to aid in finding compatible lovers, etc) could find another way if they just tried. Plus, when that hair grows back in IT'S PAINFUL. It sticks up and gets caught in things and it blows. So leave me and my hair alone. And the chaffing comes from bare skin being rubbed against by a penis and your lover's nethers. Having some buffer eliminates this problem for me.
@100 vennominon

Yes, I am being kind to CMA. His way of expressing himself gives him an air of callousness. I'm willing to forgive his choice of words and address his valid questions.

My chief concern is that commenters don't seem to allow for the possibility that a fetish constrains a person's sexuality, and that that doesn't make a person one-dimensional.

CMA has a hard limit. If you are straight you have a hard limit about dating those of the same sex as yourself. It makes no sense to lecture someone about all the fine qualities that people of the incompatible sex have. Be thankful that your hard limit is not something that is kept secret by social convention.

It is indeed unfortunate for those who date CMA to finally reach the level of intimacy required for him to assess his hard limit only to find out that there is no match. He wrote to Dan asking if there is a way to avoid this. We might just as well look at that plea as an effort to spare the feeling of others.
CMA -- I'm divided on him. On one hand, I understand the fetish argument. You can't control what turns you on for the most part. But would be a fetish if he said, "you know, I'm only turned on by a woman that is 5'4" - 5"6" DD breasts or larger with a 22" waist or smaller. Literally, I can't be turned on by anything other than this very specific type"? Or a woman said, "I'm only turned on by a man that is at least 6'3", dark hair and an 8"+ cock -- anything else simply won't do"? I don't know. To me, that's getting dangerously close to a very shallow asshat...Sure he has the right to have such a specific ideal (and be so shallow and limiting), but that such a hard preference qualify as a fetish or just general shallowness?

I also suspect as others have mentioned that there are bigger psychological issues afoot and he's using it as an excuse not to enter into a truly intimate relationship (or perhaps is incapable of that). If the latter, then perhaps he should stick with sex workers...
Big Dicks and Big Clits to that side of the Room and little dicks and little clits to the Opposite side of the Room, Hairy Pubes to the Rear and shaved pubes to the Middle of the Room and I'll Sort you all out! The Human condition makes it so that we are DISSIMILAR! We all have preferences and we all have physical Characteristics that we can obsess on. I can tell you that having a GREAT BIG COCK is not all that fun either! I've had several situations where my partners clamped up with the thought of me driving my Mack Truck through their tiny tunnels. There are other pressing matters that we should give our time, energy and efforts to.

For those Right Winged Conservative Purist Christian GOP'ers or Christian Conservative Democrats or Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu Autocrats around the world that believe only in the union of man and woman; and that women don't have the right to exercise Their choice; and that God only allows Heterosexual Married Sex and everything else is an ABOMINATION; WE should address them!! Everyday, minute, second of our time we should Let them know........

That the world is Not Flat and the Sun doesn't move around it, And there may be more to Peoples Beliefs/Religions than the Judeo-Christian Islamic construct. In-fact there are some beliefs/religions that are older than theirs. We Should let them know that some people choose to be monogamous and would love the same benefits and rights that "married" couples have, That Same Sex Unions are Real. That Sexuality should be defined as what one does to get off with sane consenting adults regardless of Gender or Kink or Sexual Perversion. That Women can be Empowered with their Sexuality and have the Right to Decide to Procreate or not too with Federal Funding. That Equality is not an Ideal to Study and Conceptualize but something that we all should work towards in this the "Greatest Country of the World"!!! Genital Differences and Hairy/Hairless Pubes really to me Not an Issue!
>>>PEOPLE, ENORMITY MEANS GREAT EVIL. It's a useful word. Let's keep it.<<<<

Learn the difference between connotation and denotation, and stop lecturing the rest of us.
I get the distinct feeling that even if you pass muster with CMA, genitally speaking, he'll be a controlling, unyielding asshole in other aspects of your life together. I didn't get that feeling at all from the "I like big cocks" woman.
YAY! My two huge favorites - Tim Minchin AND Dan Savage all in one post! Yay!
@44: Pubic hair doesn't get in the way.

Look, I have no agenda against pubic hair - I can appreciate pussies (and armpits) both hairy and shaved.

But pussy hair absolutely does get in the way. If I have to hold your hair out of the way with my hands in order to lick your clit, that means my hands aren't doing other fun things. And long pussy hairs inevitably end up chafing when you fuck.
@75 SavageFan, yes, the size issue is a little bit of a double standard, but not entirely. Clit size may have psychological value for some people, but unless we're talking 3+ inches there's little or no PHYSICAL effect on a woman's partner. Whereas a man's dick directly impacts how his partner feels during sex. Long or short, thick or thin, straight or curved - how the parts fit together makes a difference.
I love the way my boyfriend's facial hair feels, especially when he goes down on me. He has a full beard, and I like my vulva to be totally hairless, because it maximizes sensation for me (waxed vagina + bearded face = oh my god yes). I also find that my "baldness" allows for greater lubrication during intercourse.

Regarding SMALL:
No way. It's not your right to not be teased for physical attributes you can't control. And telling them they're hurting your feelings avoids the real issue, which is that you clearly are sensitive about the size of your cock. That's like the guy with the bad sunburn asking everyone in the world to close their blinds so he can enjoy his tank top. It's your job to desensitize yourself, or do something constructive with your sensitivity. Own it, girlfriend.

Make a game out of it. Confront the guys doing the joking in a public awkward way, either by loudly stating that they weren't complaining about your small cock topping them for all those months, or by citing the study Dan refers to about smaller men having more satisfied partners. If you ACT like you're not ashamed of your small cock, by talking about it proudly and matter of factly, you will stop FEELING ashamed of your small cock. Doing it Dan's way just reinforces the notion that you have something to be ashamed of, and that they need to be sensitive to your "disability."
Also, it makes you sound like a total wuss.
I've waxed for 8 years now, and it barely hurts at all most times (every so often, for some inexplicable reason, it does hurt, but the pain only lasts for a fraction of a second). I stay nice and smooth for several weeks before hair returns, and when it does come back, it doesn't have that prickly, itchy quality it does if I've shaved. Shaving gives me razor burn and ingrown, and no matter how cleanly I've shaved, I get those prickly, itchy stubby hairs in two-three days.
Waxing is expensive, however, so I can't do it more than every 5-6 weeks--by which time I look neatly trimmed, not completely bare.

As far as odor goes, I thought I would hold less fragrance without the hair, but that appears not to be the case.
And it feels wonderful: so smooth and soft. I don't know why it makes either oral or penetrative sex--or even masturbation--better to be hairless, but it does, for me.
So ultimately, that's who the hair removal is for: me. If a partner requested it, I'd be happy to indulge him, and if he preferred the natural, I'd think of the money I was saving and indulge him, too. But if someone *demanded* any style of hair--whether on my pubis or head--or thought that if I didn't remove it, there was "no point in returning" to be with me, I'd be out the door damn fast.
Save some money for Planned Parenthood of Texas too! We're about to do the same thing (and, predictably, they're blaming the Democrats!)!
Savage Love is a great column, informative and fun to read. Thanks Dan - we should thank you more often.

@nordica: I felt the same way reading that question.

Does anyone else think he was joking when he said "How do you feel about a forearm?" I laughed out loud when I read that.
FINALLY! Jaysus Dan, FINALLY some direct action for Planned Parenthood!
@118. I've never had any problems with it or felt my pleasure was being compromised, nor have I received any complaints (unless a guy tells me its an issue, I'll take it at face value and assume its not). But I have gotten all sorts of irritated when I'm bare. If you require a girl that keeps it shaved for you, that's fine, there are plenty out there who will oblige, but I am gonna be one who does. Sorry
Excuse me. I meant say "I am NOT gonna be one who does"
@98. Maybe I have sensitive skin? I don't know, I can only speak from my own experience, but I don't like being shaved because it is uncomfortable for me.
As for planned parenthood, it is a great organization but why should MY tax dollars pay for it. I am so tired of everyone expecting government to take care of everything. I work hard and pay for my insurance and my co pay is more than what you feel like paying at planned parenthood. I know I am going against the grain here but I am so tired of no one taking personal responsibility. I am a gay woman but I can think and take care of myself with God's help. Only in extreme emergency should we expect other's tax dollars to care of our personal problems.
@104: That is what we do too, and it is a perfect solution. A "beard trim" (haha) does me for 2-3 weeks, then when it starts to grow and get kind of itchy I know its time to shave again.

Added benefit: Recycling! When my husband's shaver becomes too worn out (motor? I dunno) for a close face-shave, it is in perfect condition for a not-so-close pelvis shave. And the timing is perfect since we're both shaved at the same time ;-)

"Stubly the razor says, 'Only YOU can prevent thigh irritation!'"
Haha, Dan referencing a Tim Minchin Song just made my day! Bet he likes the Pope Song as well..

As for the shaving discussion, I'm there with #104 and #130: A beard trimmer leaves me smooth, but I don't have to deal with ingrown hair or the constant itching.
I shave my lower region completely bald cause, for some odd reason, having hair down there makes me itch and feel unclean. It also makes my lower region irritated if it stays unshaved for more than a day... so I do my best to stay bald and smooth. I also have an above average clit. It is not HUGE towhere it looks like a small penis... but the size is definitely above average. You know what though? I dislike men sucking on my clit, so his little fetish would be no go. Also, if I found out he was dating me primarily for my nethers, I would dump him in a heart beat. Saying something like "I've been waiting for a bald, oversized clit women..." would lead to a dumping quickly. Most women can pick up when an emotional connection is fake. If I got the hint he was not truely connecting to me, I would dump him without ever romping him in bed. I wonder how many bald, oversized clit women dumped him before ever hitting him in the sack cause he was not "investing" in them emotionally?...
Will someone please tell me if something is wrong with me? (I suspect the answer is going to be yes.)

Shaving of any sort on any part of my body gives me a rash and ingrown hairs. The only exception is leg shaving, IN the direction of hair growth (which leaves prickly stubble, which makes my calves itch when I wear skinny jeans or socks that go above the ankle).

I will not bore you with the numbers of different razors, shaving techniques, and post- and between-shave lotions, salves, and concoctions I have tried.

Waxing gives me a rash and ingrown hairs. Plus I can't afford it.

Epilation (mechanical pulling out by the roots) gives me a rash and ingrown hairs.

Nair did not work for me, and it gave me chemical burns. (And yes, I only tried it on my legs.)

Trimming makes me feel like someone is stabbing me with hundreds of tiny pins in the genitals and pubic area. Not the trimming itself, the walking around with trimmed pubes afterwards. I do NOT get used to the sensation, it only goes away until my pubes have regrown to their usual, natural length, which takes months. A little trimming, a lot of trimming, makes no difference.

I cannot afford laser hair removal. I'd get it in a second if I could. My skin is light and my body hair is dark and coarse and I fucking hate it. I don't know whether to blame my German mother or my Slavic father, but this is definitely *somebody's* damn fault.

And oh yeah, my pubes don't just spring forth from my "bikini area." They also grow on the insides and front of my thighs. Needless to say, I do not go swimming.

I'm just grateful I'm in my late 30s, so the guys I sleep with are old enough to know what pubes look like and don't expect me to be porn-star bald. That's about all I got going for me.
Dan - you might add the address of the governor's mansion in your request for donations to Planned Parenthood in Indiana so people can make donations and have him notified that they are in his honor.

Mitch "Jackass" Daniels
4750 N. Meridian Street
Indianapolis, IN 46208
Regarding Dan's answer to FP, a dick is a dick. Genitals are highly eroticized for good reason. Just because a forearm could possibly do the same job doesn't mean she WANTS a forearm to do the same job: it's the cock that matters. It's symbolic.
@129: if women in need (those who cannot afford the health insurance that you can) end up needing TREATMENT rather than PREVENTION, then more of your tax dollars will go to that than would have gone to PP. The fact is, not everyone has the sort of job that gives them health insurance, and not everyone can afford it. It is ridiculous that our tax dollars should go to fund wars that most Americans don't support, subsidies that we do not support, but somehow shouldn't go to very basic, relatively inexpensive healthcare.
Regarding SMALL's problem (small cock), this is a real problem not only because many men obsess about it, but also because pornography tends to feature men with HUGE cocks - not average cocks, but HUGE cocks. So it makes many guys feel like 7-8" is average, when the average is really more like 6". And frankly, I'd rather have a guy with 6" and technique, who cares about my enjoyment, than a guy with 8" and no technique who only cares about his own orgasm.
The problem with the first dude is that he acts like women have no value to him at all unless they turn him on - so even chicks who have what he's looking for will probably run screaming from his entitled asshole attitude.

When I had an online personal ad, I listed some pretty specific physical preferences in a partner (Caucasian or Asian, within a particular height range, painfully skinny, no body hair, submissive leanings, willing to crossdress, kind of effeminate, head-hair long enough to grab) but I also made it clear that I was willing to talk to anyone interesting, whether or not it led to anything sexual/romantic.

And lo and behold, because I asked outright for what I wanted, guys who fit that description started messaging me. I also made some wonderful friends - and because these friends knew they weren't my physical type, there was never any awkward attempt at hitting on me.

So, you can indeed ask for what you want ahead of time - online, anyway. As long as you don't come off like a shallow, fetishizing asshole, people who fit your stated type will respond - after all, don't we all want a partner who considers us their physical ideal?
@85/138 - yeah, yeah, we got it the first time.

But maybe you should try asking your partner if he/she wants you to shave. I bet I'm not the only one who prefers my men a little less fussy in their personal grooming.
@129: Shouldn't tax dollars be allocated to programs that benefit our society? Isn't that the question to ask when deciding how to spend that money? So in the case of PP, the question is "Does providing these health services at a discounted rate for those who could not otherwise afford them benefit our society?" Family planning, cancer and STI screenings? Yes, lots of people have jobs that offer health insurance, or enough money to pay for these things themselves. You appear to be one of them, as am I. However, if I lost my job tomorrow, I would not be able to afford premiums without my employer's contribution and I would lose my insurance and my ability to pay in one fell swoop. I don't think I'm alone in this, and in the last few years, a lot of folks have found themselves in that situation through no fault of their own. So then the choice is PP (or similar) or don't go to the doc and hope for the best. Is that OK? For me, one of the most important things that my tax dollars can pay for is keeping our citizens healthy and productive.
@138. I don't like it. But if your lady seeing your naked balls, glad you've found one another.
I like a man with his junk shaved, but he has to keep it maintained or it hurts like a son of a bitch during sex. I haven't encountered pubic hair in so long when going down, I'm not quite sure I'd know what to do when I got to the jungle. I typically wax, but shave in a pinch. I prefer waxing to shaving for the longevity of the smoothness--I shaved this morning, and feel vaguely bristly. I don't like shaving daily or even every other day. Waxing, however, is the best. Maybe I just like that someone else does it for me. And EricaP, it's no where near as bad as waxing your legs. I have the ridiculously sensitive skin of a redhead, I would sometimes have minior abrasions at my old salon in MN. But I've found a great place here in Denver where they use a different kind of wax, and they don't use the cloth or paper strips. All around a much better wax, with much better results.

I've kept it bare there for the past 10 years. I'm pretty sure I smell exactly like I'm supposed to, and I haven't had a yeast infection in more than a decade. I maintain the bare canvas because I like it, it's my preference.

Now, clit size is a much more interesting topic. I'm fascinated by the variety that can be observed in porn, but can't get a good enough look at my own to determine the size. I've tried with the handheld mirror trick, but invariably get distracted.

I find that waxing gets much easier with time--really, it only hurts the first time, and the maintenance waxing is barely even uncomfortable. To avoid ingrown hairs, gently exfoliate every day, and use an after-shave/wax skincare product--I use TendSkin. I never get ingrown hairs, and I am actually very prone to them. I've never been able to deal with shaving--it's too hard on my skin, it grows in stubbly and uncomfortable, and it doesn't last long enough. Waxing lasts for weeks, and when the hair does grow back it's much softer than it is with shaving. I love the way it looks and feels, and so does my boyfriend.
@140 EricaP

"Fussy?" Shaving my face is a lot more fussy to do and vastly more important to Mrs. J's enjoyment of sex. My shaving below the equator is only a matter of a minute or two a couple of times a week. I did ask her about it and she said she prefers me shaved. It also increases my enjoyment because it allows more skin contact.
Mr J - I've no problem with a hard limit at all. He should just lead with it. It would save him the "wasted" time, emotion and effort. And it would allow women to make informed decisions. The only drawback for him is that some women who have what he wants might choose not to date him because of the start of post 139.

For an Austenian, your being willing to forgive his choice of words is a little surprising. After all, how do we know what to make of Lucy Steele early on but by her grammar?

Now if you wanted to exhort him to treat women with a little (or perhaps not such a little) (more) kindness and consideration, as Ms Kim does, whether they fit his bill or not, you'd be on to something. As things are, he's at best not doing himself justice and at worst digging his own grave.
Dan: I like the links that you've begun adding to your column. Keep it up.
I just want to make a comment in response to your most recent podcast about dating the earth.
I'm a geologist so i feel its my responsibility to tell you that your partly wrong. Carbon dating is effective but only accurate within about 15,000-20,000 years since carbon-14 only has a half life of about 5200 years. other common isotopes like potassium-40 however has a half life of 1 trillion years, making it ideal for radioactive decay dating.
Just want to let you know since there may be a little backlash for this.
@ 136 and 143, thanks for saying most of my piece. And I would only add that tax dollars that prevent unwanted pregnancies and STDs actually reduces 129’s health care premiums along with government expenditures (I’m sure the logic speaks for itself). Now @129: I am as privileged as you to have good health insurance, but during most of my reproductive years (when I was mostly concerned with NOT being reproductive), I either did not have insurance (it took me a LONG time to put myself through college and graduate school) or the insurance (which I, like you, “”worked hard” for) paid $0 towards birth control. I could only afford birth control and regular health screenings through Planned Parenthood. I did not pay “what I felt like paying” at PP – I paid on a sliding scale relative to my income. My commitment to my own health and to the prevention of an unwanted pregnancy meant walking through throngs of protesters screaming at me about how immoral I was, every fucking time I needed to refill my prescription for birth control, which could only be done in person at the hate-surrounded local PP clinic. I was so relieved when I was finally able to get those services in a private doctor’s office. Being one who has been poor to middle class to something even a little beyond, I take issue with you accusing a person who seeks health care at the place s/he can afford it lacking in “personal responsibility.”
@128 No, that happens for me too.....if I've shaved (and I have tried it before) I find it that it chafes a lot more and starts to feel numb really quickly. All in all, not fun. I don't know, maybe we're the statistical outliers here. : )
I just want to make a comment in response to your most recent podcast about dating the earth.
I'm a geologist so i feel its my responsibility to tell you that your partly wrong. Carbon dating is effective but only accurate within about 20,000 years since carbon-14 only has a half life of about 5200 years. other common isotopes like potassium-40 however has a half life of 1 billion years, making it ideal for radioactive decay dating.
Just want to let you know since there may be a little backlash for this.
@105 - thanks :)

@109 - your sentiment is bone-selfish but understandable. However, *reality* is that you can pay a pittance in taxes towards the most basic health care for the uninsured who use Planned Parenthood (which isn't all, or even most of the uninsured) or you can pay higher insurance premiums when we go to the emergency room and can't pay. You may not like it, but that's your choice.

Believe me, if I could afford health insurance, I'd have it. Meanwhile, my desire to be responsible for my reproductive health (avoiding using your tax dollars for welfare for an unwanted baby, or treatment for an advanced case of cervical cancer), means I walk through screaming protesters to go to the doctor.

For the record, I'm a trapeze artist. Knowing that one bad injury will sideline me with no hope of paying the doctor, no livelihood and no insurance is a terrible situation, but one I've chosen to be a part of. Please note that Planned Parenthood does not provide any orthopedic or sports medicine services. For those, I'm on my own.

@129: A couple of hundred dollars worth of birth control to prevent an unwanted pregnancy is a tax-reliefer's wet dream of a bargain, compared to the couple of hundred thousand it will cost to educate the kid (I don't imagine you think we should get public education off the backs of the working class too?), or the million or so it will cost to incarcerate him (in case you actually do think that).
Shaving/not shaving... oh my. When I was 17 and a foreign highschool student in the mighty US of A, I discovered What Shaving Meant To Americans.

As in going swimming with a local 19-year-old girl : "yuck, you have (5-mm trimmed) armpit hair, luckily I have my razor, quick shave it before anybody else sees it, you'll make everybody puke and you may get hurt !"

As in the choir teacher explaining how bad we just had been singing : "y'all sound, like, you know ? a... HAIRY leg !"

As in being asked, in a tone of vague horror, by younger teenagers who had just seen "Home Alone" : "Is that true, that, in your country, pussies are... not shaved ?!"

And then meeting the goth girl who'd confess she did not shave her legs, because this way they would never itch her boyfriend.
156 Sissoucat-- I'm American and grew up in the U.S. Here's what I've found Shaving Means To Americans.

I realized shaving was kind of stupid when I was 17. It was 1977. I stopped. Over the years of wearing shorts and sleeveless shirts (in a warm climate), and of changing in locker rooms where appropriate, I've gotten negative reactions maybe 5-6 times. It's always been from a stranger, and the stranger has always been female. It's been as much as a raised eyebrow or a negative expression. No one else has noticed or cared.

Everything else about my appearance is ordinary. I'm a straight female who wears jeans, dresses, bathing suits, all normal, maybe a few years out of fashion. I have an ordinary haircut, etc. The men I've slept with, if they have had a preference, haven't said anything. Their attention has been on everything else having to do with a date, things like the restaurant or the movie, then later, my breasts, foreplay, sex.

I don't doubt that you've heard negatives about not shaving from individuals. There's plenty of advertising telling women that they're not sexy if they don't shave as well. But put it in context. Do you believe everything you've heard advertised? Was everything else that 19 year old friend and that choir teacher said true? Do you really care what those women think?

Go ahead and shave or don't shave according to your preference. That would be my advice if you were asking me whether you should buy a blue shirt or a green shirt, or if you were making any other ordinary choice as to fashion, haircut, or decorating. There will always be people who disagree with you, but preferences of this nature don't make you disgusting, and they're not representative of the U.S. as a whole.
@148 vennominon

"I've no problem with a hard limit at all."
Thank you. That's 99% of what concerns me here.

"He should just lead with it."
He seeks guidance from Dan on whether and how he might do this. Those are valid questions. You would answer him "yes" to the former but are silent on the latter. Should CMA meet a random woman and immediately ask about her genitals? No, perhaps the internet is a better way to go. Whatever the solution may be at least that's where our efforts at advice should be directed.

Each time I re-read his letter I am further convinced that his wording is sufficiently vague concerning the manner in which he breaks off his liaisons as to permit any extrapolation. Here we find a Rorschach test for our commenters. You may suppose that he abruptly gets up and walks away, or you may suppose that he's a perfect gentleman in the matter. The letter gives no detail. It only states the fact of the breakup. Let him who has never broken up with someone cast the first stone.

Consider that the letter's total lack of sentimentality (it is clinical in tone) may merely be a stylistic choice for this particular letter and not the dating modus operandi of the LW. Not everyone is an Austenite.
Ha! "Austenite" is not quite the same as "Austenian" is it? In my defense I have a bit of machine shop in me.
Mr J - I thought you had already provided him sufficient advice on how to do so. Have I misread the thread?

Here is my thought process, and I could be wrong, I freely acknowledge it. He dates women for reasons. Becuase he does not lead with his "requirement" (and while I shall grant for purposes of discussion that it is a true need, I retain a scintilla of doubt), his reasons for dating do not entirely revolve around his speculations about their size. They have sweet personalities. They are pretty. They are hard-working. As they apparently see him more than once, I'll grant that he is capable of appearing to be worth continued investment on their part of emotion, time and effort. These are qualities which, even when mitigated by the lack of a large you-know-what, are excellent qualities in... wait for it... friends. In fact, a true friend might be even a superiour return on the investment of all that emotion, time and effort. But do any of his dates make it into the Friend Zone? Given the way he emphasizes no need to return/point in returning, I infer that they do not. And, as he missed two or three chances to express concern for the emotion, time and effort invested by the women who date him only to find out that they never stood a chance of romance anyway, I infer that that is of no concern to him. As for how he conducts the breakups, you may be entirely correct. Even if he is perfectly sweet about it, though, I think I have enough valid inferences to think that at best he does not assist his own cause to the utmost.

I don't think he has to be a prince to receive genuine and helpful advice. But how helpful is it not to address that he comes off as entitled and off-putting?
just donated.

in honor of mitch. : > i hope that burns him, even just for a few seconds.

having [total knee] surgery soon, so i'm paying for my own stuff; but maybe i can come back later and give more.

162… Lol

George Takei is awesome! :)
@147 - Since you and your wife prefer you shaved, then by all means, shave. Hunter said he shaved to please his partners; I was pointing out that he might want to ask them what they like. Some people (me & 144 at least) prefer men with hair. If he really gets a lot of "ew, that hairy cock," (142) it does sound like a trim is in order.
@162 fucking genius!
Catballou@145 - you cracked me up with your "invariably get distracted" line. So true.

And thanks for letting me know that waxing the privates hurts less than waxing legs - don't quite see how that can be, but I take your word for it (Thanks also @101, 122, 146, for chiming in that waxing doesn't hurt much after the first time).

Maybe CMA should try sucking a dick. Its bigger then a clit and might turn him on more. Give it a try CMA
I remember as 17 year old back in the 70s going to see Maria Muldaur and seeing her unshaved pits. The very concept opened up a whole new world to me and I have since then enjoyed women in their natural state whenever they came along; which in the States has not been very frequently.

Then, a few years ago I started dating a woman who had been dating on the softball team for years and she shaved her cooter. She said that all the sidebuckles who were serious about getting their pussies licked liked to shave because it heightened the sensation. That was good enough for me and I was happy to dive right in.

I've often wondered about clit size, however. The only woman that I ever had a long term relationship with who I could not consistently bring to tell-the-world-to-call-me-next-week orgasm had what was, in my experience, a tiny little button of a clit. And that's when I could find it. I always wondered whether that was the problem or whether it was something else. Probabbly the latter, but to this day I still wonder
@167 Could she bring herself to orgasm? Did you ever get to see that?
She claimed to masturbated when she was single and was otherwise relatively game, and she had orgasms with me. But, seriously, what kind of orgasm is it when you turn on the light after sex and start balancing your checkbook or fiddling with your PDA. I remember thinking, Shit, I can do better than this; I know I can. Fortunately, since we have been divorced, I have been reassured to find that I have not lost my touch after all.
Are you kidding me? You could be making dick jokes and you're wasting everyone's life talking about your own pathetic lives and forgettable problems. No one cares about your giant clits and hairy, gross smelly bodies. DICK JOKES, MOTHERFUCKERS! Get on it.

How about making some friends you haven't fucked? You of all people should know the DRAMA involved when your circle of friends consists of size-queens. I've got a small dick, too, well - only when it's not happy, but still - things like this are why my circle of friends include people I work with, people I went to school with, people who I have more in common with than gonadal impulses. There is a big world of friends out there just waiting to be had ... but not that way. Not all breeders judge or bite (even when you ask nicely ... and that's a good thing!).
There's a website out there with a couple of vulva galleries, for women (well, anyone) who is curious about the range and variety of vulvas out there.

Contains quite a bit of info besides the vulva galleries, too.
@169 - she claimed she used to masturbate when she was single? But never did in front of you, her husband? I'm a big fan, personally, of watching your partner masturbate. I do think one learns a lot about what the other person likes & doesn't like.
$50 to Planned Parenthood of Indiana. Thanks for the heads up, Dan.
Thanks, Dan--

Although, FYI, Planned Parenthood provides plenty of services to queers (like yours truly), including women and men, including lesbians and transmen, and so this is not just a straight rights watch! This is an everyone-watch-out, stand-up-for-ourselves-and-eachother kind of thing. But you know this, I know.

@Erica P: When watching a male masturbate, there's actually a THERE there: THERE IS NO QUESTION whether a man with an erection is authentically aroused.

OTOH, when watching a female masturbate -- for herself, rather than for her partner -- there's no THERE there! How can it be arousing to watch a woman's hands on her vulva, barely vibrating? Women's orgasms depend on what's in her HEAD, not what's between her legs!!!

This has nothing to do with persons or personalities. Men are wired visually, women aren't.
@176 I said it would be educational, not arousing. Having your head close to her fingers would allow you to see what she actually does. Check this out if you think everyone does the same thing:…

@176 If you really think there's no THERE there for a man to see when a woman masturbates for him, then you're doing it wrong.

I've not yet been with a man who hasn't been fascinated and aroused by watching me.
176, what the hell? The fact that male arousal is super visible and female arousal is more easily faked has absolutely nothing to do with your conclusion that "men are wired visually, women aren't," which in no way follows logically from that statement. That's a straight up bizarre leap of illogic.
Belief. What does that mean to you? The path through life is unique to all. You must embace the beliefs you find personal and reject those that direct you away from your nature.
Too often we, same gender interested, people feel like we are alone in our creation. You are not!!! Look outside your world and see that we are all around you. It may not be as easy to see as the color of skin but we are still in plain site.
We are three gay men having a discussion about how we survived childhood. Being a child may not be how you see yourself but when you are feeling imprisoned in a family home there can be a feeling of hopelessness. This is your test of personal strength to grow and become who you are at the point where you can make your own decisions. Don't forget who you are and make those around you believe you are who they think you should be to survive the expectations. If you have the opportunity to be honest then by all means stand up with pride. If not, know that many of us have gone through the same as you and you can be happy.
It gets better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dating is NOT about finding the "perfect" partner. If you want to find someone who meets your every desire, you'd better be prepared to spend your whole life on a search that will ultimately end in disappointment and loneliness.

Dating is about finding someone who likes us enough to ignore the majority of our faults, and even pretend to like the things that they find unattractive, like small clits or small dicks or body hair. In return, we do the same for them. And, if we need to, we vent our other desires through porn, fantasy, and masturbation.

Sure, you're entitled to your own likes and dislikes and desires. But it's simply immature, selfish, and douchey to immeditaely write off every single person you meet because they're not your ultimate sexual fantasy. Most people outgrow those things by, say, age 20. That you haven't is simply sad and pathetic, and if you don't get a wake-up call, you'll be spending the rest of your life either alone, or in a series of brief and frustrating relationships, because no woman can stand you. Which would you prefer- a small clit, or celibacy?

Also- voicing your "needs" on a first date (or second, or third) could very well leave you with a heel to the testicles. Sure, it might spare a woman from wasting any time on you. But, quite apart from that, it's extremely RUDE. Not only will it scare off any small-clitted or hairy women, it will scare off ALL women. It's kind of baffling that you don't seem to realize this.

So, keep dating, keep quiet, and load up on porn full of big-clitted women. While you're at it, imagine how you'd feel if your girlfriend told you: "We have to break up, because your dick is too small and you're too hairy. See you!" If you ultimately decide to break up with a woman for ANY physical reason, LIE ABOUT IT. When you say, "I prefer larger women", it comes out sounding like, "I am not attracted to you at all, and there's something wrong with you." And it does not go over well, just like if a woman said to you, "Sorry, but your dick is just too tiny to satisfy me." You'd be thinking about that for a while. Make something up- if you can't think of anything, just go for a cliche like "it's not you, it's me", or "it's just not working out between us".

In this situation, telling the truth is simply cruel, douchey, and immature (a pattern with you, judging from your letter). Moreover, it will get you labelled as an asshole, and your ex-girlfriends may warn their friends (who might be clean-shaven, well-endowed goddesses) to stay clear of you.
Another note: You compare your own desires to women being "disappointed" about dick size/shape. There is a HUGE difference between WANTING a certain quality (and being disappointed when you don't find it), and outright REFUSING to have anything to do with anyone who lacks that quality. By comparing these two ideas, you're just looking for a way to justify your ridiculous behavior and give yourself a free pass to continue acting like a 14-year-old boy.

Often, people date someone who we really like, and when it comes time for sex, we find that our someone is lacking in certain areas. It's only human to be a bit disappointed, but out of respect for the other person, we deal with it, and do NOT bring it up or otherwise indicate our disappointment. Instead, we make a judgement call- "do I like this person enough to deal with their small clit/ tiny dick/ small breasts/ man-boobs/ etc.? Or should I end this relationship now?" Most decent people will give their partners a chance, if they like each other enough, and at least give it time to figure out whether the relationship could work (see the second letter).

However, this is NOT your policy. Your policy is to immediately ditch every single woman you ever date, no matter how much you like her, no matter how much she likes you, no matter how much chemistry you have together, no matter how attractive or smart or funny or interesting she is- all over the size of her clit.

When you hear women talking about their "disappointment", do any of them absolutely refuse outright to have anything to do with a man who measures less than a certain number of inches? Or are they just voicing their preferences?

Your problem is NOT a "preference", as you put it. It's a refusal to accomodate others or treat them with respect.

pre·fer/ Verb1. Like (one thing or person) better than another or others; tend to choose: "I prefer Venice to Rome".

You're not saying "I prefer Venice to Rome". You're saying "Venice is the only place I will ever live. I won't even consider going anywhere else, ever, no matter how nice it is. I just can't stand to even visit any other place, even if I've never been there and know nothing about it. I refuse to leave Venice at all, for any reason."
@182 Raelynn-- I hate to disagree since you speak so eloquently in defense of "imperfect" people who don't meet some ridiculous standard, but you forget an important point. This man CAN'T be attracted to women who don't meet his criteria. For him, it's like telling a gay man to get over his immature attraction to men, to grow up, and to start liking breasts because they're attached to a terrific person who otherwise would make a great friend. For that reason, his best bet would be to divorce sexual attraction from relationship. Since he's unlikely to find his perfect physically endowed woman in the same place he finds his perfect woman for friendship, companionship and relationship, he needs to consider porn or sex worker for the sex and great friends for everything else. When he begins to date, that's what he needs to be upfront about, that he's not likely to want to pursue a sexual relationship with the woman he's dating.
I can't decide how serious this post is but offer it up anyway:

I shall now delight Mr J by realizing CMA's storngest point in his favour. Please give me extra credit for this, because it is so out of my range.

When we strip away all the distraction about size, what we have on his own testimony is a heterosexual male incapable of attaining a competent state of excitement without providing oral services first. Now I emphasize again that this is not my area of expertise, but everything I have ever read about those inclined to commerce with an opposite sex suggests that Very Few Women Get Enough of That Particular Activity. No wonder his previous woman kept him for seven years. (Of course, one could always speculate about why that relationship ended, but I don't want to contradict myself.)

You misunderstand. Those ain't YOUR taxes. They are OUR taxes. It's the ante you and everyone else puts into the pot so we can have this thing called society. Civilization isn't free, and America was designed to limit the tyranny of the majority. In other words the pot pays for stuff that we don't agree with individually (wars, electric chairs, welfare, abortions, etc.)

Though I'm befuddled why I would need to explain this to a gay woman...
Geez, Dan - can't you see that CMA is a repressed homosexual? He is GAY...even if he doesn't realize it.

Don't look at what he says he wants; look at what he doesn't want. He is merely making up an excuse to eliminate all but the tiniest minority of women.....because he doesn't want women.

He doesn't explain why he likes this, or the woman's pleasure or even his own. He wants to suck on a woman's clit large enough for him to sub-consciously fantasize it's a cock.

CMA is gay.
It's obvious that everyone who finds you a disgusting skin sack is gay or lesbian, truth B you.

"For him, it's like telling a gay man to get over his immature attraction to men"

No it's not, assface mcbitchcunt. Sexual fetishes, no matter how pronounced, aren't SEXUAL ORIENTATION...if so, identifying as heterosexual would indicate precisely what kind of things you were into...and if you, I'm getting a piss vibe.

Back to dick jokes, you fucking lames.

So this is why you're supposed to judge people on personality!

It's not the size of the ship, but the motion of the ocean. However, only a fool takes a canoe out to sea (also a slam against people with large sloppy orifices that are disgusting. Yes, disgusting).

Three male campers were stranded in the woods overnight, and took shelter in a nearby cave. They huddled together for warmth and slept. Upon waking, one said that he had a dream that someone was pulling on his dick. The other also said he had a similar dream. The third said he dreamed he was skiing.
> It wouldn't be fair to leave her wondering what the hell is wrong with her, when in actual fact there's something wrong with you.

I imagine that receiving oral sex from a man and receiving it from a woman are, in terms of physical sensation, basically the same. Yet almost everyone has a very strong preference for one over the other. So this guy seems to me to differ from the norm in degree, rather than in kind.
@176 I'm a woman. I'm aroused visually. Thanks for the sexism--it goes well with Rapture Saturday.
Dan, you cannot say that cutting federal funding to Planned Parenthood will result in more abortions. Show us some data to prove that. The only thing that results in most abortions is a pregnancy perceived as inconvenient by a careless woman. Please don't insult our intelligence! There are free clinics in every city that provide free birth control. Abortion by the way, doesn't make you unpregnant, it just makes you the mother of a dead baby.
I feel it important to insert my 2 cents worth here... regarding shaved cock, IMHO it's a bad idea. Unless you just shaved, and even then, it is questionable, but fucking a shaved cock is downright painful, resulting in bad bad bad whisker burn on the rim of the pussy. Incredibly off-putting, like a rim of needles piercing you. Totally painful, at least for me. The guy was so pleased with his bald cock, but i told him what his shaving efforts resulted in, and quite honestly, he was shocked, never thought of it in those terms. So guys, don't bother shaving your cock, and while you're at it, leave them balls alone too :)
I thought the same about CMA as others here have suggested, that he is still in the closet. If he wants something big in his mouth, he really should try a cock, just to see if that does it for him. Otherwise, he should stop being so picky, and perhaps he should just pay for services, cuz it seems he will not find what he's looking for in the short time we have here on this planet.
I too have been told by various women that men are more visually aroused than women. It is certainly is not always be true but, from my experience, as as stereotypes go, it appears to have some foundation. I mean, I apprecaite it when a woman allows me to arrange the mirrors but I'm not disappointed if she is more bemused by my interest (vanity) than she is captivated by the show itself
CMA's letter is all kinds of strange, but not because of his stated preferences. Here's a guy who's clearly worried about yet expecting to be called an asshole, but who also worries about still remaining single. If his sexual preferences aren't met, he twice says he has "no reason to return", which is a particularly odd way of putting it. And why on earth is it taking him so long, with so much emotional investment, just to "get a look inside the panties"? That sounds like the lament of a 15 year old, rather than a 45 year old. I suspect his issues go far deeper than specific anatomical requirements.

How hard is it to begin dating, make out a few times, and then suggest going down on her as an alternative to pushing the relationship too quickly to intercourse? Then you have an answer about potential sexual compatibility. How many women are apt to refuse that offer, or would wait months before allowing it? This seems so obvious, simple, and rapid a way for CMA to screen partners that one immediately wonders, why isn't this happening? Did it take 7 years to find out his girlfriend's clit size? The answer to this "why" is, it seems, the crux of CMA's actual love life issues.
I don't think FP is wrong to want what she wants, any more than CMA is wrong to want what he wants. The only question is how that mixes with finding a happy relationship. Maybe FP would enjoy "average" or "smaller" if the guy who came with it was awesome enough, but maybe not, and that is okay.

The hardest relationships I've had to end were those where the guy was really great, but simply not quite the right one for me. When things are going pretty well and you have no obvious or deep reason to break up, it can seem really selfish and stupid to end a good relationship just because you want an even better one. In a world where people struggle to find love and compatibility, it can seem silly to strive for a gold medal when you've got a silver one in hand. However, if the chemistry just isn't right, and it doesn't improve despite a good faith effort on everyone's part, then that may be reason enough to move on. Whether it comes down to the size, or the vanilla, or some other random quality or behavior or compatibility issue, people have to trust their honest feelings. It's fairer both to yourself and others that way.
SMALL, I think your "friends" sound kind of like jerks. I'm not a big fan of humor that targets characteristics that way, but when you actually KNOW that your friend has that characteristic? The rule is pretty simple: your friend gets to take the lead in deciding whether humor on that subject is appealing. So if YOU were making the small dick jokes and they joined in, that would be okay. When they do it and you aren't laughing? Jerks!
ugggh can people stop being so uptight?

women TEND to be more sexually stimulated by touch and men TEND to be more sexually stimulated by visual, that doesn't mean women aren't turned on visually or that some don't break that trend.

it's not like you hear left handed people getting all upset any time someone makes a casual reference to the tendancy for right-handedness
Couldn't the dude with the bald pussy/big clit fetish look for women on a site like AFF? He could clearly state his preference and see who responds. I met my awesome bf 1 1/2 yrs ago on AFF. The reason we were on there is that our previous partners didn't value sex the way we do. We put up profiles that expressed our preferences and we are currently having a blast.
@176: You're kidding, right? Just stirring up the hornet's nest?
Just want to point out that not only straight/women get abortions... while certainly very important to straights and women, abortion rights are everyone's rights. Too often reproductive rights language renders invisible the queer women or trans people or others.
well, if the first guy can get her aroused enough, her clit will be bigger...only for a while :)
AND as for small dicks,...let's not forget penile enhancement tools, like the cyberskin 2" extension...then you can have it either way you'd like..some days more, some days less
well, if the first guy can get her aroused enough, her clit will be bigger...only for a while :)
AND as for small dicks,...let's not forget penile enhancement tools, like the cyberskin 2" extension...then you can have it either way you'd like..some days more, some days less

go on?
@201: AFF was my first thought too. Dan is usually so good about telling kinky people to look for other people who meet their kinks through the Internet.
@ 13, read #39's post. I'd like to add, that "yes, it DOES get 'better'" and one day when you spend most of your time with mature, adults, you will find that most of the world does NOT tinge their humour with "an edge of cruelty."
Also, you may wish to take a long hard look at those with whom you keep your company. I haven't heard a "blonde" joke for about 25 years nor do I hear "cruel" jokes. Why? Because I choose to spend my time with mature people who have more to offer the world and with that maturity comes a completely different level of humour as well. There are plenty of people who, it wouldn't even occur to them to make a cruel joke if they know it will hurt someone else.
That's just life.
@75 - the woman wanting a big dick stated clearly that she wouldn't date a guy for that reason alone and and also wanted to know if it is possible to "retrain to like smaller cocks" but the man in the first letter doesn't understand that long term relationships are based on more than just body parts. He would dump a woman with whom, by his own admission "invested time and his emotions" into simply because she doesn't have the body parts HE has convinced himself he needs. Yes, he is a bit of an asshole and he knows it to be the case because he wouldn't have brought it up in the first place. THAT goes out to all those folks who keep trying to say his actions "don't make him an asshole." Give it a rest, folks, he already KNOWS it.
As for YOU, stop looking for things that aren't there. To answer your question: no, it isn't a "double standard." It is two very different situations regardless of it being a man and a woman. In your mind, change the second letter writer to a man and THEN you will see what is obvious to the rest of the world. Or, change them both to women.
Remember that what you focus upon multiplies so if you look for chances for the world to sell you short, it WILL.
By the way, just so you are aware, "double standards" STILL exist and they benefit MEN 99% of the time.
You may be too young to understand this but go take a term in "Women's Studies" and you will then see the "double standards."
Yep, you got to be young to not see that to get bent out of shape because a woman says she likes a big dick but is willing to CHANGE and is more than capable of accepting her partner as he is, big dick or not, has nothing to do with self-created notions of "double standards."
Honey, when you go to work and make 30% less money than those of the other sex and have most of society calling you derogatory names for daring to enjoy the act of sex, THEN, you may have cause to whinge about "double standards" but until then, keep your ears and your eyes open and LISTEN when those who are more experienced are teaching.
Letter writer #1 needs to date letter writer #3. The first man has made it clear that he doesn't put a high priority on the emotions or feelings of others and only cares about what HE wants and it sounds like he could very well be satisfied with a man with a very small penis.
Just thought I'd throw that out there. He SAYS he's heterosexual but how does he know he wouldn't like a small dick if he hasn't tried it? Ok, ok...
Fetishes arise, most of the time in males more than women, when usually a traumatic or "life imprinting" event happens around the same time or during a sexual awakening to a person in their pre-pubescent years. The memory of this event becomes internalised and unless the person attempts to work through whatever issues he has experienced to cause the fetish, he will then spend the rest of his life "accepting" that he has to "live with it."
Often, most fetishes are so common that it doesn't cause a problem for the person who experiences them but sometimes, as in the case of this man, they can be detrimental and a block to creating a long term relationship with another.
He needs to speak to a therapist who specialises in sexual issues and work through it and he would be much more comfortable with himself.
Right now, he's just creating problems that don't need to be there.
There is so much fear attached to fetishes such as these that something as enriching to life as sex can be ruined or made so difficult as to create other imagined problems.
He doesn't "need" a big clit anymore than he "needs" to drink or smoke or to write a sonnet or to spend an evening sitting on a mountain top. What he "needs" is food, sleep and water. So, to those who are making fetishes out to be some "grand vision" of what people need, you are incorrect in your assumption. He can work through and get over this fetish the same way anyone else can if they choose to do so.
@208 - I'm glad you've found people who share your sense of humor. I hope you'll forgive my laughter at the idea that one day, when I'm finally mature, I'll see that most humor is kind and gentle.

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