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Fair enough.
I didn't mean to imply it was as bad. I think most people would consider it nowhere near as bad (personally, I would find it to be worse - but I find emotional pain much worse than physical pain).
I fully respect your personal life choices - for the record. (Not that you'd have any reason to care if I do!)
P.S. @99 I really mean ankyl's comment about wanting to prove Erica's life a failure, not Mr. J. I don't want that! If it makes you feel any better, Hunter also recently expressed his extreme dislike for me.
I was in a less-intense situation myself earlier: really into the idea of a 3some, but turned a particular girl down (cause she was a malicious motherfucker.) Then found out my partner had been sexting her behind my back AFTER I communicated to him that it was never gonna happen with her.
On top of the broken betrayal, I felt intense guilt about whether I was being too prudish or restrictive, not "GGG" enough. Heartbroken, you are a saint, and a gem among women. Dan doesn't often call out people's partners... take that as a sign of just how guiltless and wonderful you are in this situation!
This is more or less the reaction that Heartbroken is expressing, albeit in gentler words. That she kept it to herself so as to not disrupt the moment certainly doesn't mean she didn't feel something substantially similar inside.
The only place I've ever seen the reaction where the one being surprised finds out in the moment that it, improbably and to their amazement, turns them on, is in sex fiction.
@87 good suggestion – though it may be harder than you think to find gay guys who don't mind fucking alongside a straight couple.
@103, oh dear, everyone's already in agreement. What shall we do now? :-)
@56 - it looks like he wasn't putting as much effort into realizing your fantasies as you were his. GGG is not one way.
I agree with Erica that the LW's case is survivable if he's not an asshole in general. I find it hard to imagine he isn't though, or isn't spending his time now crawling on his knees begging forgiveness. And why does the LW question whether she is right to feel bad if she was very clear with him to begin with? If she wasn't clear about it I could see where her doubt might come in, and the entire situation occur.
I believe you meant to say "would NOT be able to do." Normally I wouldn't point out typos, but this one seems to be pretty significant.
But all props to Erica for winning GGG forever and to ankly for quoting Buffy.
Clearly what happened to LW1 is a big deal, and it seems to me she was asking Dan for clarification about whether she was justified in feeling violated. My interpretation is that she has tried to present her issue to hubby who doesn't realize how deeply she was affected, and she wants validation.
I would consider it necessary for any couple, group, whatever mix wanting to invite more people into an encounter to set ground rules. If you were choosing to be part of an MMF threeway (most likely at the F's suggestion), would you automatically assume that there would be no M-on-M, or would you like that addressed ahead of time so that nothing happens "In the heat of the moment"?
"if you can remember the condom, you can remember to check with your wife (right there, next to you) if this is okay."
or maybe you could remember to keep your cock out of the guest pussy. Just a suggestion....
It's a little fucked up how much I appreciate that
#57 - Why the hell did she GO to Mike Tyson's hotel room if she didn't plan to ball him? So she could cry "rape" and get a boatload of money from him?
My point about forgiveness is simple: that it's a fine (and difficult) art to know when to forgive and when not to forgive, and that the fact we all need forgiveness at some point may humble us to the pain others inflict on us. We've all inflicted pain on others, and only these others know if the pain was 'too much' or not. And what is 'too much' for one person may not be for another. You feel emotional pain is worse than physical pain; someone else might think the opposite; and both would be OK.
Standing for oneself and forgiving are NOT in opposition. Like all yin-yang relationships, in some strange way they are intrinsically connected and depend on each other.
Besides being unable to find the caps lock key, you do find convenient ways of de-humanizing and taking all agency away from this poor. Geesh, some people are just so blatantly anti-male.
Besides being unable to find the caps lock key, you do find convenient ways of de-humanizing and taking all agency away from this poor guy. Geesh, some people are just so blatantly anti-male.
Many people here seem to think that since she agreed to a threesome then she agreed to VP between her husband and the other woman... Really?
If someone agrees to do some light bondage, do they automatically agree to anything the other person feel like doing once they are tied up? Since you know... what do they expect to happen?
Sounds a lot like the reasoning many people use to justify rape. Well she went home with the guy... what did she expect to happen? Well she wore a short skirt, what did she expect would happen?
This is a complete violation of trust and his wife has every right to be pissed off with him.
No good sexual partner will willingly put their partner through a sexual act they do not wish to partake in.
Trying to gauge the physical and emotional wellbeing of 2 partners seems like a daunting task.
Peace.
Surely Slash could see how, despite her prior stance against such concubines moving in, she would suddenly be overtaken by the moment and immediately begin reorganizing the house to accomodate the pregnant, horny teen who loves her husband deeply.
Isn't it two-on-one with the role of "one" being handed around to some extent? (depends on their orientations and boundaries). It shouldn't matter that you don't have contact with one of the other two, there should always be something for you going on. How inconsiderate would you have to be to allow anyone to sit on the sideline, let alone allow them to be forgotten there? That's like having one-on-one sex and suddenly getting up to go masturbate alone in another room.
Or look at it this way: There is no "active couple." There is an active triad.
But with people who aren't experienced at threesomes, I think it can lead to one person feeling left out. Someone may feel ambivalent about the whole enterprise, or may have performance anxiety in front of a new person, or whatever. I do think couples should consider high end sex workers -- their job makes them very talented at figuring out what people want and what they're scared of, and providing reassurance, and slowing things down if someone's uncomfortable.
Frankly, if the LW's husband were sincerely apologetic for his screw-up, and if the rest of their marriage felt solid, then I would still be encouraging her to consider forgiving him. Our culture provides plenty of support for the idea that women should immediately dump a man who breaks one of the woman's rules about sex.
But re-reading the letter, she seems to have been told to get over her feelings, which suggests that he's not apologetic. And that's what brought me to change my mind, in this particular case. My general opinion on forgiveness follows ankylosaur's @123.
And you're repaying him by setting him up for a sexual experience he explicitly told you he didn't consent to?
Unbelievable.
No means no, SLASH. Say it twenty times before bed every night for the next fifty years.
Forgiveness: I believe that if you are genuine, humble and proactive about correcting your mistakes --and that you mean it--, then forgiveness should be granted. Sometimes, we step over someone else's boundaries without intending to. We all fuck up sometimes. If the apology is unprompted, sincere and articulate, then I'd say let bygones by bygones and move on.
"I'd love to hear that meant "I enjoyed seeing him enjoy himself, and give her pleasure, and I was more aroused than I thought I would be."
If that's the case, and assuming your husband follows Dan's advice and apologies to you, then you might see if you can reframe the threesome as a hot adventure, for yourself, during a private masturbatory session. If so, then try talking about it in a sexy way with your husband (either as equals, or saying he was a bad boy, or whatever else comes to mind). If you decide to move forward and share more adventures with him, I think that will work best if you can forgive & forget what he did, and give him another honest chance to get it right."
But if your phrase meant: "It wasn't as bad as I thought, and I was proud of myself for being so GGG, even though I wasn't aroused" -- then just work on rebuilding your trust in your marriage in other ways, and maybe plan an adventure to which you both can look forward."
Given that Heartbroken described herself as "heartbroken," I thought this response was unwarranted. It's not that I don't hope that she and her husband can't get past this and resume a happy and fulfilling marriage. I do. But given what she and I see as the insensitivity of his breach; the violation of trust; the pure "I'm-entitled-to-it-cause-I-want-it-and-don't-care-what-I-have-to-do-to-get-it," and the "so-I-promised---sorry" selfishness of what he's done when his wife was being more GGG than a whole lot of wives are; the fact that she never suggests that this threesome was anything other than his idea or done for *his* pleasure; and the fact that, at least as the letter is written, there doesn't seem to be any indication that he has offered a true, heartfelt apology, or even seen how devastated she is; given all that, I found your suggestions of how Heartbroken can turn this into another way to be accommodating and can find something sexually exciting about an incident in which her husband betrayed her to be insulting and dismissive of her pain. She wasn't writing asking how to turn this into fodder for a hotter sex life with her husband; she was writing seeking confirmation that her feelings of wretchedness were justified, which again, leaves me to conclude that the response her husband is giving her is along the lines of "I'm sorry: I got carried away in the moment. Look, I said I'm sorry; get over it already."
I thought you were being insensitive from your perch above what you self-describe as the peak of the GGG/Forgivess mountain. Maybe you hear that last line as harsher than I intend it, so let me try to clarify.
It's true that due to things you've written, I think that at times you are putting a positive spin on situations or circumstances that you wouldn't have chosen voluntarily. That can be a good thing. Sometimes I am not sure that you are entirely happy with the situations your husband has led you into, but I'm not suggesting that you're a bad person, or delusional or whatever else you may have interpreted my critique @21 to mean. As I tried to say in that post, you have some unique tools to combat that situation with, and you have your reasons for trying to make your marriage work on what appears to be--because you only write what you write--only your husband's terms (there could very well be terms of your marriage's continued existence that your husband has had to accommodate himself to, which you simply haven't told us here; there probably are. But from what you've written, midlife crisis or not, your husband presented you with an ultimatum about 2 years ago which you have capitulated to in what sounds like ways that have left you little consideration for your own desires [although you have regained the beatings you missed]).
So you are already a GGG person, and you don't want to lose your husband, whom you love and there are children. You have good reasons for doing what you're doing. But please recognize that everyone isn't you; and not everyone wants to be like you. And not everyone can be you.
I don't know if I've explained things here or made you angrier by this post. But you've shared things over the years that hint at your unhappiness (although when someone tries to sympathize with you, you get very defensive), and then you urged a similar mindset/reaction on a person who is right now in a lot of emotional turmoil. What's right for you might not work for everyone.
Really? I'd like to hang out with Frank Churchill.
It would be fun.
Now if want to get a party together to throttle Mrs. Elton, I could be part of that!
It may be that Heartbroken should and can and will forgive, but threesomes will be forever off the table for this couple.
This is the problem right here. She told her partner what she wanted /when she want it and it wasn't well received. Either by the men being defensive or ignoring the request. So guess what? Because of the negative or the lack of response, she stops requesting what will bring her pleasure. And now you are back to being frustrated trying to guess what will work for her...
I have been in this situation too many times: men afraid to ask for direction (What are you into? Is this too much? Need more pressure? Do you need to take a break?) and unwilling to take direction/suggestions (Come up on your knees, your cock is hitting a weird part in the back of my throat. Sloooower please. More lube please. This angle will hit my sweet spot. Start slow and then build up.)
Not that what you are doing is wrong, but this adjustment will make it SO right...
I thought "completely down with" might meant "I enjoyed." Do you think that's not a possible interpretation?
Why do you dismiss my joy in kink as just more accommodating my husband's desires? The kink is for me; his pleasure in kink comes from seeing how happy it makes me. We stopped doing it for years, because I was uncomfortable asking for what I wanted. His midlife crisis led to more discussion of what we each want -- which led to me admitting how much I missed kink. The Kink Is For Me. Clearer now?
I'd be fascinated to hear what each Slog poster wishes they got more of. Our culture blocks us from admitting what we want, beyond the basics. I urge women (like the LW, and @56) to think about their own deep desires, and expect their partner to be GGG too.
I'm not a specialist in threesomes, having had only two in my entire life. But the experience I've had is that, if the couple is on the same note (again just as in the case of a new friend invited for dinner), both will help the third person feel well and welcome. It's a team effort; it's not like you are the only person who has to think about how everyone else is feeling (they also have to think about how you are feeling, by the way.)
Also, between the couple itself, the feeling of happiness at watching one's partner interact with another person ('compersion' seems to be the term) provides a new pleasure to be enjoyed.
All in all, the biggest problems seem to come from people's reservations, embarassment, feelings of shame, performance anxiety, etc. But similar things happen in other situations in life, and much of what works in these other situatinos can also be transferred to the threesome scene. (Yes, social skills are important for threesomes...) If you are three, there are of course more ways to screw things up, but if you try to make the atmosphere as open and friendly as possible (as you would with the new friend coming to dinner), and if the three people in question are all good people without too much baggage, things have a good chance of 'clicking.'
As far as offering sympathy and being rebuffed:
A) I don't insist that you're miserable now or ever. If I bring up things that you've written in the past it's because, like most people, I remember what I have read or heard and all of it contributes to an impression I have of a person which is constantly evolving (both people and my impressions of them). I can't "unread" or what I've read. I've also read that you're quite content with your life and I keep that in mind, too.
B) I can think of two instances when I offered immediate sympathy when you discussed something that was making you unhappy or seemed to be bothering you: the first was when you were dismayed because your husband had gotten a girlfriend, and the second was during a discussion in which you described the experience of meeting men who were very enthusiastic and flirtatious before you had sex (which you were hoping might have the potential to being an on-going FWB thing) and then they turned into non-communicative, apparitions as soon as it was over. You were saying that they were blowing any future chances with you because you didn't appreciate being treated that way.
In both instances, right then, not months later, you shot down my and anyone else's professions of sympathy or statements of support and became defensive.
The problem is not your opinion, but how you sound smug and arrogant about it.
For instance, in this very post you accuse others of 'wasting' bandwith, when bandwith is the cheapest thing here and this 'wasting' causes no suffering or problem to anyone -- be it Dan, you, the others (you can always not read what others write if you don't want to). And you're not taking into account the enjoyment these people get from posting and discussing interesting topics with each other. I.e., you miss all the fun they're having, and think only of the number of characters? Isn't that weird?
Frankly, it sometimes seems to me that your posts here are also a 'waste' -- you barely ever contribute to the conversation (except that one time about ethnic hatred in ex-Soviet countries; are you from Eastern Europe by any chance?), and your comments are usually hurtful, not useful, to others. Why do you waste your time like this?
I am a GGG, always have been, always will be. I've watched past partners P in V with good friends of mine, consensually, and really enjoyed it. But they've always been good friends and not randomly recruited. This may seem odd to others, but I'd rather have girls I trust in bed EXACTLY because of my fear that I'd end up in Heartbroken's position.
I think threesomes are always challenging to all involved (maybe not if you're seasoned, I can't speak to that) and I'd rather have friends reassuring me if I start to wig a bit. I know I can trust them.
I'd love to have a threesome with my current partner, but as I told him it's all about balance: if we bring a girl to bed, then I want to bring a man to bed. He can't wrap his head around that but he's trying.
My question for the room: I'm bisexual and he's not. Does that fact make my request unreasonable? I'm of the opinion that if he gets P in V from a third party, I want P in V from a third party. Thoughts?
Interesting, both nocutename and mydriasis think EricaP was belittling Heartbroken's suffering and basically telling her to (automatically?) forgive her husband and find some good way to save her marriage. I didn't think that whay when I read her post, though I did notice she (Erica) didn't mention her (Heartbroken's) feeling of hurt very prominently.
Maybe that is an example of our opinion of other people (an evolving thing, as nocutename says) influencing our reading of what they write (which is always the case, isn't it? We don't read Hemingway as if he were Shakespeare.) Since I wasn't here yet when Erica talked about her crisis with her husband, I never strongly associated her with that. To me, she simply seemed to be someone urging others to find out what kind of sex they like and try to find ways of getting it. So I read Erica as wanting to say, "OK, maybe this threesome went bad, but the next one can be improved, you don't have to be dismayed by this miscommunication/screw-up by your husband, threesomes can be made to work well."
I'm not saying I'm right (who is The True Erica or The True Mydriasis, or The True Ankylosaur anyway?), just that the mere fact I came in later had consequences for my reading of her comments. Interesting.
"My question for the room: I'm bisexual and he's not. Does that fact make my request unreasonable? I'm of the opinion that if he gets P in V from a third party, I want P in V from a third party. Thoughts?"
Alternate genders of partners each time you have a threesome. Or, just hook up with another couple, and make it four. Other than striking a deal to alternate between you get P in the V from someone else one night, and your hubby gets to put his P in the V for some other woman another night -- if not the same night.
You'd be better off having another couple (couple either in actuality or as just two good friends, etc. who happen to be one male and one female) and going from there.
Plenty of straight women indulge their boyfriends or husbands in FMF threeways even though they have no interest in women.
So no, no your request is not unreasonable.
Hell, I'm straight, and would never do a FMF three-way. I'm all about MFM. That's the only three way I have any interest in doing.
Especially if there's M/M action.
But the basic problem is that people are not always (what am I saying? they're almost never) sexually symmetrical. So the fact that you find something easy to do (since you're bi, FFM threesomes are no problem, there is no "icky barrier" to break) but your boyfriend isn't means that, yes, it is more difficult for him to do what you want than it is for you to do what he wants.
(And this is not only so in sex. Because I love foreign languages and have a near-sexual obsession with grammar, I'm also the guy who proofreads most of what my wife writes, both in English and in Dutch, languages I'm good at. Now, if I write Russian -- my wife's native language -- she could in principle also try to proofread my texts, and she does try, but she does a rather poor job of correcting my mistakes: she doesn't feel the same love for detail and grammar that I feel, so proofreading is for her a much worse chore than it is for me. That means that, in the end, I do most of the proofreading at home, and when I need my Russian corrected, I sometimes prefer to ask a friend to do it for me, not my wife.)
So, what do I say, in the end? That you're entitled to wanting PIV with another man in bed with your husband since he gets PIV with another woman in bed with you. But since the level of difficulty for him is higher than for you, and given the resulting pleasure asymmetry (you get something out of FFM threesomes while, right now, he probably doesn't get anything out of MMF ones), it will take a while. He'll have to be more GGG than you to do that, because, at least at first, the MMF threesome will be entirely for you. (Can you think of something else you're not into but you do, or would do, for him if he asked? This would be better to compare to him in an MMF threesome than the FFM one.)
Maybe your husband will warm up to MMF threesomess, maybe he won't. You'll have to see. Personally, I love MMF threesomes, but that's because one of my kinks is a cuckold fetish, so I'd love to see my wife having PIV from another man. (She doesn't like that, so we don't do this, but I would have no problem with it.) Presumably, your husband is not like that, and will need more time, reassurance, etc., for dealing with all possible issues involved (some kind of jealousy, the fear of being 'outdone' by the other guy, perhaps some lingering homophobia, etc.).
As you say, at least he's trying to get there. I hope he will. Good luck!
Your request is perfectly reasonable.
@157 blah
Is MFM with M/M something that you've found much of?
Using your description of how things should be for a three-way makes me put Heartbroken's husband in the realm of "epic fail". If he's lucky, that was the last three he'll have with his wife (but maybe she's more forgiving).
@154 Elektra,
Depends on how hot you are for the other "F".
Peace.
Laying down ultimatums can be dangerous, so it's worth avoiding that unless you really need MMF to be happy.
Forgiving him is a different question, but yes, there is no doubt in my mind that he screwed up, very much so.
And to all you assholes piling onto Erica (in a bad way), back the fuck off. She's shared details of her life, and you're distorting them and throwing them back in her face, which is an asshole move, in my book.
And Ank: What you said, as usual.
The answer to that question figures rather importantly into your definition of consensual. Obtaining agreement under false pretenses, particularly when coupled with restraining the other person's ability to opt out at any time, is anything but consensual.
So, you didn't want to spoil the moment, embarrass the third, et cetera. Didn't you lay into him the following day for a good solid hour of hollering? You had every right to. Indications are that you didn't, which is why Dan did all the hollering for you.
Andrew Breitbart will forever be defined by that statement. More the fool he.
Short answer? If you want him to agree to other guys for you, find some way to make it worth his while IN THE MOMENT, so that he is trading pleasure for pleasure, not pleasure for displeasure. 156's idea of making it a foursome instead of a threesome is a good start.
And you can realize this fantasy, SLASH. Every straight guy is bisexual, it's just a matter of unlocking that potential, and I'm about to hand you the keys.
Do the threesome as planned, but make sure the bi dude plays it straight at the beginning. Then, as your husband is proudly banging you from his favorite position and thoroughly engrossed in the proceedings, the bi guy should sneak behind your husband (quietly, don't want to scare him) and gently tongue his asshole. Things will unfold naturally from there.
This maneuver is kind of like the Vulcan grip, but instead of stunning a man, it turns him temporarily bi. Go, now, and do good things with this knowledge.
re: ankyl - I didn't say that forgiveness and standing up for your self were mutually exlusive or opposing in all cases. But in some cases they are. Those were the ones I was referring to. P.S. I agree with you that it's interesting the way everyone interprets eachother's posts.
re: Hunter
Dude's just a bitter old douche.
You could try to explain to him that other people here enjoy reading eachother's posts and learning about eachother's viewpoints, you could try to explain to him that the scroll button was invented for moving past things you have no interest in reading. But he'll still complain, and pull out some half-cocked rationalization for why he's right - that's just his way.
WOW---@146 summed it up beautifully as to why I'll never engage in a threesome either. Who needs that extra baggage?
I seem to recall a letter where the "GGG" husband broke down after witnessing the 3rd's "P" in his wife's "V." Dan did a cute dance around the subject and gave the letter writer a nice talk-down.
This column consistently encourages people who Google "GGG" to get into these situations, but there's no asterisk for *by the way, look throgh years of my blog to find instances where this kind of shit has back-fired and created disaster.
Dan, do you ever contemplate that perhaps you are "the motherfucker?" I know you have good intentions, but seriously.
True, but that's only because EricaP is priceless.
I'm sorry; any offense is unintentional.
I do remember once suggesting that you find a different, perhaps better way to work though some issues when you seemed to be having a difficult time (after others here were rather harsh), because the comments thread here isn't really equipped to be a theraputic group--and I remember you got super bitchy back to me, which I pointed out didn't do much to engender sympathy.
The thing is, I don't care whether you're mad at me or not. But you can't post a lot about your personal life or your troubles on this kind of site, without inviting comment, some of which might not be to your liking.
I think that in this week's example of Heartbroken specifically, and in other cases in general, you have a tendency to ignore the emotional crux in a letter and jump in with sexual logistics advice or instructions. It often seems obtuse and insensitive at best or even arrogant. Heartbroken is in emotional distress--her husband has betrayed her trust--and you're offering suggestions on how she can incorporate a scene that has caused her a lot of pain into her masturbatory routine. She describes a husband whose behavior is stupidly selfish and inconsiderate, and you suggest that she talk about it with him in a "sexy way," perhaps calling him a "bad boy." That you respond this way is baffling, and suggests that you just don't "get it." So when I respectfully suggest that this is an inappropriate response, you lash out at me, require a ton of mollification, and then search back through archives to validate your interpretation that I misunderstand you and find you miserable when you're happy as a clam.
Let it go.
Apparently neither she nor a lot of others on this site, understand what that phrase means.
I think she's more deserving of respect from her husband than her posts concerning his ultimatums, acquisitions of girlfriends, secretly taking up smoking and lying about it, would suggest.
I think she just has a hard time understanding how people without her tendencies (she's exceedingly submissive, and gets off on being dominated in every arena - or at least that's the impression I got/get? Correct me if I'm wrong, Erica) don't get off on being emotionally/psychologically bitchslapped.
A friend of mine, let's say 'Lori' slept with an aquaintence of mine, let's say 'Jordan' who I knew through my good male friend 'Kevan'. Because I knew what kind of circle they hung out in, I knew what kinds of women they hung out with (and dated, and slept with). Lori was not this kind of girl. One morning over brunch she said, in hushed tones "he tried to slap me! Like in the face! I was like 'no. never do that. What the fuck.'"
I said "let me guess. He was surprised."
He was. I tried to explain to her that the kinds of girls he's used to not only want to be hit, they demand it. I knew Kevin had to break it off with a girl because he didn't want to hit her with a closed fist.
Lori will never understand those girls, and most of them will probably never understand her.
Erica unfortunately seems to have the same problem to a degree. It looks to me like she thinks all women can (I didn't say should, but it wouldn't be a stretch) shift over to accepting any mistreatment that happens to them - and turn it into a positive thing somehow. She rarely recognizes that what works for her wouldn't work for many other women or men.
Again, to be clear. @Erica - I think you're a nice person, you actually remind me of a good friend I used to have (who also had a submissive streak like no other). I'm not trying to put you down. I'm legitimately trying to point out that I think you're missing a piece of the puzzle with the responses you give. Cute put it more eloquently above, but try to take it constructively, if at all possible.
Peace.
As for Hunter... yeah, that's the impression he gives. A pity. I hope he'll find happiness somewhere.
And that is indeed possible.
I will only say, in favor of threesomes, that, when things click, they are just awesome. And the reason is not so different from the reason why we say that groups can have more fun together ('the more the merrier') -- in these situations people will sometimes inspire each other in ways that usually don't happen if you're by yourself or in twos.
It so happens that I tend to agree with you guys' first interpretation more than with EricaP's first interpretation (i.e., I think Heartbroken didn't just want to get over her feelings, but really felt betrayed by her husband, and rightfully so, and was wondering what to do with him). But EricaP's interpretation doesn't have to be based on a desire to project submissiveness on everybody else: it could be just a legitimate different interpretation of the LW's intentions and feelings. (Note how she later on changed her opinion on Heartbroken's husband.)
Because, after all, there's nothing wrong with what SLASH wants; it's the way she is going about it that is worrisome. She may imagine she's just broadening his horizons a bit (as if she thought 'oh, I'm sure he'll eventually like it and later on, he'll even thank me for that; and we all know that, heh heh wink wink, which is why I ask you guys' adivce on how to do it'), but it's much more likely that she's setting herself up for causing to her husband the same kind of emotional distress that Heartbroken's husband has caused her. Let's hope she sees that by now.
Hunt, hang in there. I hope it works out. Maybe it's just winter gloom.
@190 anklosaur: I have to admit I've never actually tried being in a threesome. Unless all 3 people involved are 100% happy with what's going down, it just sounds to me like a recipe for disaster, however intriguing.
My one doomed marriage, for me, was bad enough. I'm thankful for the one fucking awesome relationship I have now----and to think my true sweetie was right there the whole time!!
Hey, everybody----it's finally March, and spring is coming!!!!!!
The difference is that, since threesomes involve Sex, This Big Awfully Important Thing In Our Society, if a threesome doesn't work people will often jump to the conclusion that it's because Threesomes Violate The Holiness Of Sex, Certain Things Are Not Meant for Humans To Do, instead of it being, say, because someone was an asshole.
Hey, I'm really glad you and your sweetie are enjoying each other! I hear your voice full of little birds, stars, and comets (plus classical music; maybe Chopin?) and it raises my spirits. Let me wish you lots of great sex in this budding spring. :-)
Man I hate evo-psych excuse-making.
You probably thought it was clever, but it was rude. You owe them both an apology: to him for offering unsolicited advice, and to her for ignoring her request on dealing with her issue. Which, by the way, you could encourage her to lighten up after you feigned understanding her.
You probably thought it was clever, but it was rude. You owe them both an apology: to him for offering unsolicited advice, and to her for ignoring her request on dealing with her issue. Which, by the way, you could encourage her to lighten up after you feigned understanding her.
I would suggest that the two of them have a serious talk, in which she expresses the extent of her hurt and anger, and her husband really hears her. And I'd hope that he would genuinely feel contrite and express that contrition eloquently and without defensiveness or excuses like "You didn't stop me, so I thought you were okay with it." I think his apology would probably have to include a component of "I got carried away," since I will give him that much benefit of the doubt, as opposed to him having premeditated it in the same way SLASH is considering planning an ambush. But I think the apology should go beyond that, should acknowledge a serious betrayal of trust and a huge degree of selfishness.
And then I would hope that the conversation expand to what Heartbroken's specific fears are--that her husband will leave her for someone who is better in bed, that he will become emotionally attached to a woman whose vagina he's been inside, whatever. And then they need to address and allay those fears. He could start by backing off all sex that Heartbroken doesn't explicitly say she wants (it is unclear from her letter whose idea this threesome was. It may have been a mutual desire, or one or the other may have pushed for it. Given her rules, I suspect that this was the husband's interest and she went along with it, but I could well be wrong).
He needs to reassure her that she, and she alone, is enough for him. Only after she feels secure in that do I think they can think about where they want to branch out sexually. But I think that this will take time, and lots of it.
EricaP strikes me as a happy, confident, and wise woman who knows where her interests lie. I also really appreciate the role she plays here - testing out new ideas, challenging conventional (female) wisdom, confusing the muggles. She is one of the forces that keeps Savage Love moving forward.