Columns Jul 25, 2012 at 4:00 am

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Comments

1
First post? DRESS ME UP DARLING, PLEASE!!!!
2
She could use a diaphragm and spermicide.
3
I enjoyed the two dicks, one ass letter. It reminded me of classic Savage Love, before it became a relationship advice column with some sex mixed in.
4
The woman who's tired of being on birth control pills should get a new doctor. Has her doctor not told her about all the other types of birth control available, other than pills or condoms? There's the sponge, the diaphragm (which is annoying, but works), and female condoms. I'm curious why her doctor doesn't think an IUD would work for her... maybe he/she still subscribes to the outdated belief that nulliparous women shouldn't have IUDs? Of course, the copper T might make her periods long too, and it's quite expensive. But I'm still surprised that her doctor hasn't mentioned a diaphragm. That might be the best option for her.
5
LITL, Dan was kinder to you than you deserve.

Your guy opened up to you right at the outset and you basically squashed him. I bet that felt really warm and fuzzy to him when you shot him down that first time. What exactly does "keeping it casual" mean to you? For most people it means "free to see other people." I'm sure he thought that's what it meant to you: that you didn't want to settle down with him because you wanted to see someone else at the same time. Not something that someone who is interested in a relationship wants to hear from the other person, but hey, you started it. Now here he is playing by your rules, and the first time he mentions another girl you freak and throw him out on his ear without even hearing him out. Makes you look like a serious hypocrite.

You've treated him harshly twice now. If you really truly want him back now, and want him to trust you despite how you treated him, it's time to grovel a little. Go ahead and tell him all the things Dan said. But he left out an important one: "I'm really sorry I was such a bitch."

6
There's scientific evidence that semen has mood-boosting benefits, so condoms aren't necessarily the best choice if you're in a committed relationship. I would be asking for a second opinion on the IUD. The copper IUD is suitable for many women who can't take hormonal birth control, and it is no longer necessary to have had a pregnancy to use one. The copper IUD is expensive when it's inserted, but it lasts up to 10 years.

That said, why is the husband being intractable on the condom issue if she's having such difficulty finding suitable birth control? Doesn't sound like he's too fussed about her comfort.
7
LWAM, tell your future guy that you fantasize about getting anal from a guy dressed as you say. Then, provide him the appropriate articles of clothing the next time you get together. I'm sure he'll go for it.
8
I will allow, however, that telling the person that you just finished fucking about this other person in your life is seriously tone-deaf timing on his part.
9
Leaving the issue of giggling aside, I wonder if the first LW's BF who refused her request was bisexual. I ask because all the reasons that come to mind for a straight man to find the request degrading are rather misogynistic. With a gay man (and perhaps a bi man as well), I'm not sure that degrading would be the first adjective I'd expect to hear, but there is so much potential baggage and even possible triggering that I don't think most such refusals would revoke one's GGG card.

Of course, I may well be missing something.
10
I agree with 5. Dan was being unusually generous. Really, what did you think would happen? "I want to keep it casual" means "I don't want to be a serious couple and I want to screw around a bit". Then surprise surprise, he keeps it casual and then you slam the door in his face once you hear about another girl? Not even waiting to hear about what he wants to do from here?

He rightly believes that you're a crazy bitch. If you're going to change the rules at random times and lose your shit over things he doesn't even know, then he's completely right.
11
@6: And here, I thought that's what anal was *for*.
12
To those who suggest other types of birth control (diaphragm, lady condoms, sponge--all birth control that continues to rest largely on her shoulders): I think you're missing part of the point. Her husband has shirked the responsibility of contraception completely onto her. He has made it clear that he hates condoms, although his dislike of condoms sounds far less severe than her side effects from the pill. She's not looking for more ways to accommodate his jerkiness, but for someone to validate her feelings that her hubby's being a dick about their birth control.

And that's what Dan did, and what I'll do: TOP, your husband needs to suck it up and fuck you with a condom, get used to oral/manual, or prepare for fatherhood. When he stops being rude about this, maybe you should explore other contraceptives, but don't tolerate a diaphragm, sponge, or female condom if you hate it if you know he wouldn't do the same for you.
13
I think Dan's answer to LITL was fine and realistic. She didn't say "what the fuck; why is he with another girl?!" She seems to understand that she said the wrong thing and her feelings changed. She wanted to know how to proceed. Wanted to know if a relationship with this guy is salvageable.

I believe her situation is an immature one to find herself in, but that's no reason to tear her down.
14
I love my diaphragm (it's also useful for keeping things tidier during light period days). And I actually got it for free from Planned Parenthood because I don't have insurance. Ordered it from my local Rite Aid. I mention this because people talk about how they think it's hard to get one. It was definitely not.

Also, there are finger inserted spermicidal inserts (we called them "bullets") that create a barrier and dissolve conveniently after a couple hours. They are highly effective and can be incorporated into play.
15
Sounds like TOP needs to dump the husband AND the doctor.

And how does someone so naive as to have never heard of crossdressing even know enough to write Dan Savage?
16
Wow, LWAM- where are you???????
I've always wanted to find a woman who wants me to dress up in lingerie for her, and I'm far from being the only one. it seems like there is a huge gender imbalance in this regard and Dan was right to point that you're likely to get quite a few hits if you post on the right site.

I also want to encourage women who may be a little hesitant to go along with it if the subject is brought up by their male partners. Trust me- he will do anything you want him to in return!!!
17
@6

Honey, sex has mood-boosting effects. Which is to say "please show me a study that shows that semen itself has an effect on mood and also properly controls for the factors that influence condom use and also mood such as the commitedness of a relationship"
18
And I really hope LWAM wasn't yet another fake letter as #15 may have hinted.
19
@12

This.
20
I agree with Dan's advice to Left in the Lurch, but there's a another lesson for us. If you have a relationship status update, share the update before sex.

P.S. I love my Mirena IUD. It's an IUD that releases a hormone called progestin. I have shorter, lighter periods. It doesn't cause the weight gain and it helps protect against some cancer. I have great doctors.
21
Diaphragms have a pretty high failure rate (they're a bit better in nulliparous women but still not great) and are a pain to use. IUDs are great IF you're one of the people for whom they work well (you don't expel them, they don't mess up your periods, etc.). They're extremely popular among women OBs, which should tell you something. Among those who have used any particular birth control method for at least one year, IUDs are by far the most popular. (Full disclosure: I have a copper-T and am extremely happy with it.) Only 10-15% discontinue use before a year. I do, however, agree with mtlion@12 that it's time for her husband to try taking on part of the burden as well.
22
@20, Mirena is the shit (for me). I basically never have my period, never get pregnant, and have had no adverse effects. Her doc might think that that type of IUD wouldn't be enjoyable because most birth control pills contain progestogen (progestin) in the first place, but they also usually have estrogen. However, she could be on an oral contraceptive that only has progestin, which would make getting the IUD no better. It's possible her body just doesn't tolerate extra or synthetic hormones very well.

I don't really get why everyone is attacking the doc. His/her medical opinion is that the IUD might not be a great match for her, probably based on her reaction to the pill. I'm not saying every doctor is good, but that every doctor knows more about this shit than I/we do, and knows this patient's history better than we do. Jumping to conclusions.
23
Your guy opened up to you right at the outset and you basically squashed him. I bet that felt really warm and fuzzy to him when you shot him down that first time.

So a woman is never allowed to feel differently about a guy than he feels about her? She should've put on a big fake smile and said "Okay, let's have a relationship!" through gritted teeth, but because she asserted her own opinion she's a bitch?

Yeah, it sucks to hear "I don't want to date you" right after sex. The awkwardness could have been partially defused if the two of them had had the "where is this going" discussion before sleeping together, but I guess neither of the two people involved in the sex chose to have that talk upfront.

Do you see where I'm going with this? The letter-writer could possibly have saved the guy's feelings by going "So, this is just a casual thing, right?" before the sex happened...but he could have clarified the situation at that point, too, and didn't. So let's not act like this chick is a bitch who horribly shot down some poor innocent guy.

The fact that she suddenly (from his perspective) freaked out on him at the end there certainly was unfair...but that would have been solved by her continuing to communicate her thoughts as clearly as she had at the outset. Telling the guy what she wanted from him is the solution to this problem, not the cause.

A devil's advocate type could easily blame the whole debacle on this guy's apparent tendency to drop emotional bombshells on a chick right after fucking her. (Personally I don't "blame" either of them exclusively for this mess; seems as if they both need to work on their timing and communication skills.)
24
Yes #12! And also the copper IUD was awesome. This vasectomy thing we've got now is even better.
Also. I'm having a hard time picturing the logistics of two guys in one condom, in one ass. And yes to #3. Admittedly enjoying the hell out of trying to imagine two cocks, one condom and one asshole.
25
I wonder why Dan didn't mention this: http://techcitement.com/culture/the-best… There are tons of options out there for men who want sex without condoms, and this sounds like the best one.
26
TOP: Tell your man to get a vasectomy if he hates condoms so much. It's [usually] reversible anyway!
27
@25 That's not available in North America yet. There are pretty much only two birth control options available for men currently: condoms and vasectomies--unless you count abstinence.
28
I tried posting this as an unregistered user, but it looks weird: anyway, I read a while ago about this reversible vasectomy thing that seems to be a great birth control option for men. If there's anyone who could push for this to become popular, it's Dan.
http://techcitement.com/culture/the-best…
29
@23: "So a woman is never allowed to feel differently about a guy than he feels about her?"

Where exactly did I say that? Be specific.

"but because she asserted her own opinion she's a bitch?"

Noooooooo...let's review.

She's a bitch because:
a) She cut him off, wouldn't LET him explain, and threw him out. Can you fathom why that kind of behavior is rude, or do we need a roleplaying demonstration?
b) She was furious at him for doing pretty much exactly what she did to him the first time. She may not have specifically said the phrase "another guy" but it is strongly implicit in "let's keep it casual."

"Telling the guy what she wanted from him is the solution to this problem, not the cause."

Yes, exactly. But telling him to get out doesn't exactly qualify, does it? What she wanted was HIM. What she told him was Go Away. Kind of counterproductive, wouldn't you say?

This isn't rocket science, cowgirl.
30
@ 29 - No, but I would have wanted to have that conversation before sex, too. Sure, she didn't know where it was going, yes that was impetuous, & probably read by the guy as rude.

But you *know* how you feel right after a good shag. All those hormones, all that vulnerability.

I think it's an equal-blame scenario. Yes, she overreacted big-time; however, put into her shoes, IDK how I'd react. If there's that kind of serious talk to be had, doing it before sex is best. After seems kinda manipulative, to me.
32
@TOP : in the face of the horrible after-effects his poor wife has already suffered in the name of contraception, I could only understand the guy's continued refusal to put a condom on it if it made his dick rot and fall down. Moreover, PLEASE do not have kids with him. Kids only fasten you for life to relationships - they never make a bad relationship better, ever. Condoms or divorce. Me, I'd say DTMFA.

@LWAM : I also like to see men in lingerie. And it makes me giggle too. My lover sometimes accomodate. I also love to have my feet licked. Foot fetichists and cross-dressers : we do exist.

@LITL : You did suck at comunicating, and Dan gave you perfect advice to make it better. Accept that the guy may not want to come back for more.
33
Everyone seems fine with this "he should have talked to her before sex" idea, but I'm not really getting it.

It just sounds like a throwback to the bad old days where sex was something that men want and women ration. He got an extra ration by being a bit dishonest (by omission).

But that's not what this relationship was. These are grown up, modern people. She had sex with him because she wanted to have sex with him, not because he wanted it. And there was no lying anyway.

So I think this is just her being a bit crazy. Wanting a casual relationship wasn't wrong; changing her mind wasn't wrong; getting pissy because he didn't read her mind and realise that she'd changed - that was where she messed up. He doesn't appear to have done anything wrong.

Of course, I'm only going on what's in the letter here.
34
She totally did overreact, & she knows it. But even with something casual, isn't there a little bit of consideration that one should have towards someone they're fucking? If he knew he was gonna bring this up with her, wasn't the time to do it before sex?

FWIW, I'd feel the same way if the genders in the story were reversed.
35
Avast:

LITL, Dan was kinder to you than you deserve.

Your guy opened up to you right at the outset and you basically squashed him. I bet that felt really warm and fuzzy to him when you shot him down that first time...

You've treated him harshly twice [emphasis mine] now. If you really truly want him back now, and want him to trust you despite how you treated him, it's time to grovel a little. Go ahead and tell him all the things Dan said. But he left out an important one: "I'm really sorry I was such a bitch."


1) You open with a weirdly bitter-sounding rant describing this woman as "squashing" a guy who "opened up to her" when all the letter actually says is "he told me that he was interested in a relationship, and I told him that I wanted to keep things purely casual." We have no idea how it actually went down.

2) You refer to her as treating him harshly twice. I presume you mean once when she kicked him out of her apartment, and once when she initially told him she didn't want a relationship with him. Again, the letter doesn't say that he fell sobbing at her feet and she shat in his mouth while screaming "You don't deserve my love, you pathetic sack of shit!" ...as far as we know, he was like "so, I'd like us to date" and she was like "I don't think I'm into that." That's not being harsh with him; that's simply expressing that she has different expectations for their interaction. It's a harsh situation - it always sucks when the person you have feelings for doesn't return them - but unless she left a lot of stuff out of the letter, she wasn't being "harsh".

3) You say that Dan wasn't mean enough to her and essentially call her a bitch. That seems awfully judgemental - she had one incident where she acted erratic and angry with this guy because she'd been repressing feelings for him. This merits an explanation, an apology, and a note-to-self not to repress feelings again - which is pretty much what Dan recommends. But for some reason you seem to want Dan to yell at her and then for her to crawl over broken glass or something, and yeah, I can't help but link your vindictiveness to all the stuff about her "squashing" a guy who had opened up to her.

And that would be why I interpreted your original post as "a woman shouldn't be allowed to feel differently about a guy than he feels about her." You just seem entirely too hung up on the part of the story where she says she doesn't want a relationship, and how "harsh" that was and how she's a bitch who deserves to grovel.
36
#33: I totally see what you're saying, and I agree with it - if she's not trying to leverage the sex into a relationship then he's not cheating her out of anything by fucking her and then saying "BTW, I've started dating someone so we can't have sex anymore." (If that's even where he was going with that, which we don't know for sure because the letter writer cut him off.)

BUT the post-sex "I can't do this anymore" disclosure means that they just had their last sex ever, with him knowing it the whole time and her having no idea until after the fact, which seems kind of mean. I love sex, and if I'm about to go from gettin' some on a regular basis to getting nothing, I want as much warning as possible. If I know it's the last time, I'll savour it that much more.

Having The Talk after the sex just feels sketchy, like he's withholding relevant information.
37
@36 Yeah, that makes sense.

If his "I've met someone else" meant that he was breaking things off, then yeah, it was kind a dickish to withhold the information. Break up sex can be great, but both parties should know what they're doing.
38
@35: Okay, fine: it was a harsh situation. You yourself say it sucks to be in that position.

And he apparently handled the harsh situation with a reasonable degree of equanimity, seeing as they continued to date, talk, and fuck so spectacularly that she actually fell for him.

But when it was her turn to be in the harsh situation -- and we don't even know if she actually was being dumped, seeing as she wouldn't let him talk -- she handled it by not letting him talk, and by summarily sending him away. THAT wasn't just a harsh situation, that was her being bitchy. THAT is more than enough to apologize for. Oddly, that seems to be the one you want to gloss over.

Broken glass. Heh. Now I can accuse you of reading comprehension issues. What I wrote was that she should say she was, and I quote, "sorry I was such a bitch." (Which is what she was being in the second incident. You only need to be a bitch once to apologize for being a bitch.) Broken glass is 100% yours.

Now, regarding "grovel": The reality is she pushed him away twice. The first time, she pushed him away, presumably gently, when he told her he wanted a relationship. That was fine, and it is her prerogative, but it does begin to establish a precedent. (And, as you note, it sucks to be on the receiving end of that, no matter how gently delivered.) The second time, she pushed him away hard, making him the villain for playing by her rules. (Funny how when she's the one who just wants to fuck, but not worry about relationship stuff, everything is peachy, but when the two of them just fuck and then he says something about someone else, he is suddenly pulling bad relationship juju on a relationship she had just recently told him she didn't want.) If she comes to him now wanting a relationship, he has every reason to view her with suspicion -- she is, to use your term, erratic. She will have some work to overcome that. That's what I meant by "grovel." She can't expect to just waltz back up to him and say "Now I'm ready, let's go steady." and expect him to buy it uncritically. She is going to need to acknowledge that she fucked up and treated him unfairly by getting angry at him for doing pretty much the same thing she just did to him.
39
TOP-- Vasectomy. Offer the option to your husband in lieu of condoms. But really, there's something missing from your letter. That's the part where your husband comes to you and says "I really hate condoms, but it's obvious that you hate being on the Pill. Maybe we could work this out in a month-on-month-off sort of way where you take the Pill for a month, and I use condoms for a month. After all, you're sacrificing quite a bit of your health. The least I could do is sacrifice a bit of my pleasure."

But then, if you had that sort of communication, trust, and mutual caring about one another's needs and welfare in your marriage, the two of you might try a rhythm method. I'm no fundamentalist, and it's not as wild as it sounds. You're already getting less sex for the long heavy periods reason you mentioned. If you got the timing right, you could have less sex, no nasty health side effects, and he wouldn't have to use condoms.

As it is, I really wonder about the continued success of a marriage where he's willing to watch you go through what you've been going through just so he can avoid condoms. There's something seriously fucked about that.
40
@37: That's the crux of the problem. "If." Nobody knows what he was about to say.

He could well have been about to say, "There's this other girl, and she is starting to show signs of getting serious. But I've also started to see those same signs in you. I'm feeling the same -- hell, I've felt that way about you since the first time. I need to know if you are going to keep pushing me away, or have you changed your mind, because I can't be with both of you like that. I've only been with you that way because that's how you said you wanted it."

"I can't keep doing this" could be synonymous with "Goodbye," or it could be synonymous with "Can we please finally take this to the next level." If it's the latter, right after sex doesn't seem like a bad time to bring it up at all.
41
Hey TOP, look up the Persona. It tracks your hormones (you pee on a stick 8 days a month) and lets you know when you're fertile (indicated by a red light) and need to take care and when you're safe (green light, and the majority of the month as you're only at risk of pregnancy for the few days around ovulation). I've been using it for 3 years now and no babies so far (and given my BF had 3 unplanned pregnancies with his ex this is a very good track record). We go for alternative venues for him finishing when I'm fertile rather than condoms as I'm allergic to latex so condoms for me are super expensive.

As a bonus, coming off the pill upped my sex drive (already high generally but off the scale around ovulation:0)) and as I want kids some day, the fact that I'm tracking this and knowing I'm ovulating is quite reassuring that everything is working well and we're just tricking the system :0)
42
OH how I wish MEN could get pregnant!!! Problems such as TOP's would no longer exist!

TOP--did you have the grievous misfortune of marrying my ex?
Your pigheaded husband sure sounds like him! You have my condolences.
If he STILL balks at sharing the responsibility of preventing unwanted pregnancy and condom use, etc. as Dan suggested, then DTMFA!!!
He doesn't deserve you!
43
@31 & @39: That's another good option. Thank you both for pointing it out.
44
I agree with those who say the kind of birth control isn't the issue here.

It's the lack of empathy on her husband's side. I didn't use any birth control of any kind for almost a year for a variety of reasons which my ex accepted. He explained that he preferred frottage over penetrative sex with condoms which I accepted.
So we didn't have any penetrative sex for almost a year (which I seemed to miss more than he did :-( ), but I liked it because it made us more inventive in our sex life.

If you care for each other, you work together to find a solution.

I think she should dump her doc. It doesn't sound from her letter like he advised her on any other birth control options. There are plenty of options, and not everyone works for everyone.

To the diaphragm haters: I loved the diaphragm, and think its reputation is much worse than it deserves. Its efficacy is relatively high if used by someone responsible who likes using it and who combines it with spermicide.
45
If the fellow from couple number 2 has good control, he should just pull out. Problem solved.

No one wants to advertise this as a viable form of birth control because it's not 100% and not every guy can pull it off but if he's good, unless you're constantly having sex while she's ovulating, you'll probably be ok.

(Highschoolers everywhere please ignore everything I just said.)
46
I'm interested in why LITL wanted to keep it casual in the first place. I wonder if her (now) ex-boyfriend wondered too. Because it seems to me that the real problem isn't his timing or her change of mind. Right now it seems like it's the fact that she lied. She didn't just lie to him; she lied to herself, and that's often more damaging.
47
Holy Cats Dan! You were waaaaaay to soft on LITL! I've seen you lecture folks over the relationship faux pas equivelant to playing a fiddle on sunday.

There are FAR to many people out there who make up their mind about something concerning someone else, fail to inform that person of their thoughts, and then get angry when the other person isn't a flipping mind reader.

LITL put her boytoy in the causual box - so she could enjoy the sex while keeping her options open - in effect using him until something better came along. When that failed to materialize she decided she we comfortable to 'upgrade' as you so tastelessly put it homeslice to BF status - and then got angry because he was out living his life and not sitting at home waiting for her to make up her goshdarned mind!

Maybe the next time she decides to get her freak on with some guy she should be a woman about it instead a selfish little girl.
48
WTF Dan? IUDs, the rhythm method? I know you're a gay man, but your profession is sex: surely you've heard of non-hormonal birth control.
49
Damn it, why is Dan and so many others giving LITL a pass? She is a FUCKING BITCH, period.

She sleeps with a guy and when he expresses a serious interest in her she declines, wanting to "keep it casual". He is mature about it. He could have been a dick and told her off and ended it, but he was willing to go along with what she wanted.

In fact, I venture to say she enjoyed the power (upper hand) this gave her knowing that this man really wanted a relationship with her.

He had no obligation to bring up the fact he was seeing someone else before sex. After all, she was perfectly fine with the casual sex multiple times. What difference should it have mattered to her when he brought this up? That doesn't even seem to be her complaint.

She's mad because he found someone else and did so completely under the rules SHE insisted on. Let her sulk for a few more months or years. She is entirely at fault for feeling that way.
50
#36: BUT the post-sex "I can't do this anymore" disclosure means that they just had their last sex ever, with him knowing it the whole time and her having no idea until after the fact, which seems kind of mean. I love sex, and if I'm about to go from gettin' some on a regular basis to getting nothing, I want as much warning as possible.

I'm sorry but your argument is a bit ridiculous. The whole idea of "casual" is that it can end at any time without regrets as there was no commitment to begin with. No one needs "advanced warning". Go to a hook up site, singles bar, or masturbate for pete's sake.
51
@39 You CAN NOT just hop on and off the pill. It is not a magic pill, it takes at least one cycle to get your body in synch with the hormones. One month on/one month off will not only leave you unprotected against pregnancy, it will also totally screw up your body chemistry.

@50 Yes, the relationship was casual, but it was classless for him to withhold that info until after they had sex. He could have told her before, and if she was fine with it they still could have decided to go ahead and jump into bed one last time. Was he so hard-up to get laid that he couldn't at least be forthright?
52
To Heterosexual Female,
Check out hormone free methods!
www.cyclebeads.com
www.tcof.com
diaphragm

As a former birth control pill user, here's my experience/advice:
*Get the CycleBeads app. Basically, you enter in the first date of your period & it gives you a calendar of days you are 95% likely to get preggo and days you arent. But before you can use it as birth control, you have to make sure your cycle is within range (Clinically tested bitches, calm down)

Use the app AND A BACKUP HORMONE FREE METHOD for 3 months to get a sense of if your cycle is in range. If it is, use it! If it isn't, there are a number of different charting methods you can use and your husband can too!

Also, how about a diaphragm and spermicide? I hate that you have to be exposed to chemicals you don't want though.

Can't he just get a vasectomy also..? Anyhow, those are a few ways to not get pregnant and not use invasive methods.
53
The girl in search of straight cross dressers should just head on down to her local Rocky Horror Picture Show revival (They have them in every major city, especially around Halloween) and pick up the first cute and straight one she sees. That's how I found my husband. He looks so cute in fishnets!

The girl in search of birth control options should get a second opinion from a doc as to options. I had terrible problems with pills, but am doing fine on the ring, which is much more low dose. She should also tell her husband that though condoms aren't fun during sex, BC pills aren't fun for her every moment of every day of her life and that's FAR from fair.
54
@6 - there isn't scientific evidence that semen boosts the mood. The "evidence" came from couples in long term relationships and the relationship wasn't accounted for.
55
@49, that's way too harsh. She didn't want a relationship at first. They spent more time together. She does now. She regrets what she said and wants to know if she can/should continue to go for this guy.

Yes she overreacted and misread her own feelings in the first place, but why must she be a FUCKING BITCH for making these mistakes? You're reading further into her intentions (she liked the power; she intentionally kept him in emotional suspense) than we have information about because you want to see her as a fucking bitch.

She fucked up; she's not a fucking bitch.
56
What @51 said. I can't believe how many people don't understand how the pill works. I've seen guys suggest people take "extra" pills in case of condom breakage, etc. It's not a tylenol, guys. More doesn't help.

That being said, it wouldn't hurt for the letter writer to get a second opinion from another doctor. she keep stalking about "pills" but I haven't heard anything about alternate methods of hormonal BC, like the ring I use. I couldn't take pills at all, they made me very sick, but the ring and I are just fine.

And she needs to make clear to her husband that though he may dislike condoms DURING SEX, the pill makes her life a living hell all day every day. It's not fair.

As for the first letter, get yourself down to the local Rocky Horror Picture Show revival (in every city, esp around Halloween) and pick up some nice straight boy there. That's how I met my man -- he looks so cute in fishnets!
57
I think if TIP's doctor told her he doesn't think other birth control options are "a good fit" for her, she should see at least 2 other ob.gyns & get their opinions on this.

I thank God for doctors, but they're as human as anyone else & aren't always right.
58
For the woman on birth control pills, I really want to know why her GYN thinks other methods would not be ideal? I'd honestly go see another GYN for a second opinion at this point.

I've tried taking the pill many times but most of the time I ended up driving around crying for no reason after a couple of weeks. I have to take some form of birth control because I have menstruation problems (I would just bleed all of the time for months). So, my current GYN suggest the nuva-ring which has worked for me like a charm. I don't have to remember to take it every day and it doesn't make me go bonkers. Win-win for me.
59
@GymGoth

You know, the funny thing is, because I agree with you about how casual works, I would have found it kind of dickish (assuming he was ending things with her).

What I'm getting at is, if I was having casual sex with someone and they wanted to end things, the thing that makes the most logical sense to me is to tell me at the beginning of the night - it's just more forthright and open which I view as generally positive/respectful things. To tell it at the end of the night seems to presume that I'll

a. treat it as a breakup and get all emotional (aka not get that it's casual)
b. not want to have sex anymore (again, not treating it as casual)

Which I wouldn't, because casual means casual in my books and I've done that quite a bit. But to my mind, the only reason he'd withold that info is because he thinks it will effect he in a specific way (despite her saying it's casual). Which is manipulative.

I think the thing is, they're suggesting he waited to tell her because he thought she'd care (and possibly not feel like having sex with him after she knew) but you think he thought she wouldn't care and it wouldn't matter when he told her.

Frankly, considering how many women say they're okay with casual sex and really aren't, and how many men (possibly because of this phenom) seem unable to comprehend that a woman might treat sex casually.... I think the former is more likely. But that's just me.

I don't know if that makes sense but...
60
For TOP, consider getting an implant. I'm on Implanon- a little weight gain, but not much, and almost no periods. It's like an IUD, but it's implanted in your arm, it takes like no time at all, it lasts for 3 years, and it can be taken out any time.

Granted, I didn't have too many side effects from the standard pill (unless you count the endometriosis I was recently diagnosed with that led to the switch to Implanon), so your mileage may vary. But I was skeptical of it at first and LOVE it now.
61
I'd like to pass along to LWAM a bit of advice I heard once from a friend online: "Laughing during sex is good. It's only pointing and laughing that's bad."
62
For the woman on birth control pills, I really want to know why her GYN thinks other methods would not be ideal? I'd honestly go see another GYN for a second opinion at this point.

I've tried taking the pill many times but most of the time I ended up driving around crying for no reason after a couple of weeks. I have to take some form of birth control because I have menstruation problems (I would just bleed all of the time for months). So, my current GYN suggest the nuva-ring which has worked for me like a charm. I don't have to remember to take it every day and it doesn't make me go bonkers. Win-win for me.
63
@48:
Why should he?
In the comments' section here, I have seen so many times "birth control" being used as a synonym for "hormonal birth control" (mostly by women, btw), I am surprised anyone here even acknowledges the existence of other methods.
64
For the record, nowhere in LITL's letter did it say that the guy said, "I can't keep doing this."
Here's what she did say: "He came over, we had sex, and then he mentioned he had met someone else. As he was beginning to elaborate, I told him to leave."

Now, presumably he had been free to date others all along, as she was free to do so, and he might well have been; those casual dates don't tend to warrant a disclosure of "I've met someone else." That statement is generally used to break up, or to explain that you have met someone you really, really care about. Otherwise, in the context of a casual FWB situation, there's no need to utter it.

He couldn't be expected to be a mind reader, and indeed, it sounds like LITL didn't know her own mind until some time had passed. But he did know, when he came over that last time, BEFORE they had sex, that he had met someone he cared about strongly enough to feel the need to bring up the topic, possibly to shift the nature of his relationship with LITL--and he chose to withhold that information until AFTER they'd had sex.

Neither of these people behaved in an exemplary fashion at that last time together: he by waiting until after they had sex to mention that he was involved with someone, she by summarily ordering him out of the house, without hearing him out or telling him what she now wants him to know. They share the burden of poor relationship communication skills.

But if she feels betrayed and hurt, I understand. I don't see her as being a bitch with her initial statement of intent. This was, at its core, an issue of mismatched timing. First, he was ready when she was not. When she was, he had moved on to find someone else. The time to tell her this, however, was probably before everyone's pants came off.
65
@63

Or maybe he's not a medical professional and is trusting that the LWs doctor knows what the fuck he or she is talking about?

I don't get why everyone's bitching and whining that Dan didn't suggest this or that. The LW said she covered that issue with her doctor. "My doctor does not think other options for birth control (e.g., an intrauterine device) will be a good fit for me."

He was giving her advice from that point onwards - which was appropriate in my books.
66
That two-dicks-one-ass thing sounds really uncomfortable.
67
I'm curious why TOP's doctor recommended against an IUD, unless ze's still operating on 30-year-old medical info or approaching medicine with a (shockingly common) paternalistic attitude and sexist prescription for women to make babies. TOP sounds like a perfect candidate for long-term, no-hassle pregnancy prevention.
68
While IUDs can be a wonderful thing (though, I, a nullips, ended up with a lovely copper IUD stuck in my cervix for 6 weeks after a med student, an attending an a staff doctor collectively and unsuccessfully tried to jam in into my womb), but if you want to have kids sometime you really need to trust your partner not to fuck around on you. If you have a copper IUD, common STDs are more likely to give you PID and thereby make you infertile.

I wouldn't trust this selfish jackass with my fertility. But then, I don't think I'd want to have kids with him either.
69
Why can't the husband who won't use condoms just get a vasectomy?.
70
@mydriasis:
You misunderstood me.

In fact, as I have pointed out above, I don't think that the problem of TOP with her husband will be solved by us (or Dan Savage) suggesting other birth control options.

I was just venting my frustration about so many people equating birth control with hormonal birth control.
71
Essentially, what the not-really-boyfriend did when he had sex with LIL before telling her that he'd met someone else, was to rob her of her right to make an informed choice about whether she wanted to have sex with him or not.

She fucked him on the presumption that he wasn't into anyone else more than he was into her. She also labored under the misapprehension (albeit self-imposed) that he was still willing to take things to the next level with her, and now that she was as well, she may have invested the sex with more meaning than she had earlier. This was entirely her fault, assuredly, because she hadn't communicated her feelings to him, but to be fair, they evolved over, what, a month? Not a terribly long time. He couldn't have known how she was feeling, but he could have given her the information and let her decide whether or not she could have sex with him again. It seems to me that she was honest with him initially, didn't really withhold info from him (her feelings were developing during the month they spent together), and he was in the wrong by not disclosing the info that he'd met someone else before that last romp.

72
I always wore condoms with my wife before I got a vasectomy. It just makes more sense to stop the little spermies at the source rather than let it happen and then try to keep them from doing their job. Also, seemed fairer to the wife--when we're done, the birth control is over, while with every other method she had to deal with it long after. Condoms can be way sexy--make them part of the experience.
73
I've used a diaphragm with spermicide in monogamous relationships my whole adult life. No hormones, no pregnancies, low cost. I've never understood the preference for the pill.
74
Honestly, I'd have Tired of Pills' husband on DTMFA Watch. He would rather have her totally miserable than deal with the minor inconvenience of condoms? That's just inconceivably selfish to me. She's accommodated him for long enough - it's time for him to start using condoms or get himself snipped. Not always reversible, but a vasectomy would solve the problem.

But honestly, I'd just solve the problem by replacing the defective model with a husband who wasn't a selfish douchebag.
75
I agree that TOP's husband's selfish attitude ("I hate condoms so YOU figure out birth control!") is the primary problem. But hey, TOP, *why* does your husband hate condoms? Is there an issue with fit? (Try different brands and different sizes/styles in each brand.) Is there an issue with sensitivity? (Go check out Crown condoms - suuuuper cheap on Amazon - they're really incredibly thin, my husband loves them. We first heard about them here in the SL comments btw!) Is he maybe allergic to latex or a particular lubricant or spermicide?

Hormonal birth control is out of the question for me, too, so I chart my cycles (check out monthlyinfo.com - free cycle charting) and we only have to use condoms during the week or so of possible fertility.

@28, thanks for that link, I didn't realize there was a mailing list to be informed of clinical trials held in the US for RISUG/Vasalgel! I know it's a long-shot here because it goes so heavily against the interests of pharmaceutical companies, but maybe if we're lucky, the Canadians will start offering it and allow American men to pay cash for the procedure. Fingers crossed!
76
#39, taking the pill for a month, then going off of it for a month, then repeating the process, would likely make her feel more unstable. It's not a good option. A better idea would be to go to Planned Parenthood, and find a birth control method that suits her better.

If the conflict over birth control is the tip of the iceberg in the relationship, then it's time to get some counseling. Unresolved struggles for power can doom a relationship.

This page is a good source of information about the various available versions of the Pill:
http://www.wdxcyber.com/ncontr13.htm
77
@ migrationist

I think it's just a convention since hormonal birth control is so common. Like I say "I'm on birth control" to mean the pill but it doesn't mean I'm not aware of other forms of birth control. I think everyone just needs to mellow out.

@73

I have several friends who have no PIV and still use the pill for clearer skin, lighter and more predictable periods, less painful cramps and ease (not worrying about having to stuff things up your vagina in anticipation of every time you have sex).

Diaphragms just seem extrordinarily inconvenient to me and I'm not in love with the idea of keeping a foreign object in my body at all times. I'm a little OCD about germs too so the idea sort of wigs me out.

Plus on top of that I take Seasonale which means I only have to have a few periods a year which is fan-fricken-tastic.
78
@ 73

Also, don't love the idea of constantly putting chemicals in my vagina either. I've never used spermicide and I have no interest in starting. Again, not really a rational thing but since the BCP is a great option for me... *shrug*
79
@72: Yay for your grown-up, responsible, and thoughtfulness. It's nice to hear about partners in couples caring for one another.
80
Whoops: shouldn't have had that "and" in the first sentence.
81
Tired of Pills may have a history of pelvic infections. Therefore, an IUD would be contraindicated. Perhaps some other barrier method like a diaphragm? What about female condoms? NPR had a story about them recently (http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012/07/…). In my opinion, her husband should just get over it and wear condoms until he is ready to either 1) be a daddy or 2) get a vasectomy. She's taken responsibility for birth control in their relationship, it's time for him to do the same.
82
Just to add to the other-methods-of-contraception conversation: progesterone-only pills have worked brilliantly for me, while I had lots of problems with pills containing oestrogen. No periods, no breast pain, no mood weirdness, no bloating. A slight libido drop, but nothing compared to the other pills I was on.

The progesterone pills that are as effective as combination pills cost a bit more, but that doesn't bother me 'cos I'm in the UK and they're free :-)
83
Dressing a man up in lingerie (or full dress) for your pleasure is called feminization.

When I became involved in the cross dressing community, it was amazing to me how many men were trying to pursue me. In the vanilla world, I do not have guys lining up for me. As a GGG GG (genetic girl) I have my pick of men. My current doll is blazingly hot as a boy and as a girl.
84
So many scorn people in here who seem to take out their own rage and frustration over being rejected at LITL.

Also a lot of people here talk about what an asshole the guy was for not telling her before sex. And how emotional sex can be and how it is hard to deal with that stuff after sex, etc...

Did anyone consider that the guy maybe wasn't sure if it was worth bringing up but decided in his more emotional state after sex to do so?

Personally I agree with Dan, she handled the situation bad and should have let him speak. If she wants a chance with him she should contact him and put her cards on the table.

She could apologize as well if she thinks she acted like an ass, if not then don't.

@71
Really? Really??? You describe it in a way that makes it sound like borderline rape (by some rape definitions).
85
A diaphragm used with spermicide is easy, cheap, effective and hormone-free. When I'm in a monogamous relationship, it's sufficiently convenient weighed against chemically changing my body or using rubbers. Obviously it doesn't protect against STDs and isn't for everyone. I'm always surprised that married or LTR people who don't like condoms don't at least give it a try.
86
@71: "Essentially, what the not-really-boyfriend did when he had sex with LIL before telling her that he'd met someone else, was to rob her of her right to make an informed choice about whether she wanted to have sex with him or not."

Which may well have been exactly what she did with him the first time, depending on whether the "let's keep it casual" conversation happened before or after the sex. The letter is unclear on this.

"She fucked him on the presumption that he wasn't into anyone else more than he was into her."

Which is a shitty thing to do, when you are the one insisting on "keeping it casual." The technical term for that is "keeping him on a string."

She also labored under the misapprehension (albeit self-imposed) that he was still willing to take things to the next level with her,"

For all we know he still was, and may have been about to say it's EITHER time to take it to the next level that or break up. That's not the same thing as just "It's time to break up."

"and now that she was as well, she may have invested the sex with more meaning than she had earlier. This was entirely her fault, assuredly,

Agreed, but that didn't stop her from taking it out on him when she kicked him out.

"because she hadn't communicated her feelings to him, but to be fair, they evolved over, what, a month? Not a terribly long time. He couldn't have known how she was feeling,

She TOLD him how she was feeling, right up front. Now he's the bad guy for taking her at her word.

"but he could have given her the information and let her decide whether or not she could have sex with him again.

He GAVE her his information. Namely, that he was into her. She pushed him away. Presumably she kept him in that state all the while they were fucking. The onus was on her to communicate that things were changing as they were changing, so that he wouldn't continue to take her at her word and stumble across someone else.

"It seems to me that she was honest with him initially, didn't really withhold info from him (her feelings were developing during the month they spent together), and he was in the wrong by not disclosing the info that he'd met someone else before that last romp."

Getting all bent out of shape about having one last fuck with someone who was preparing to tell you he was interested in someone else is kind of disingenuous when the whole time the stated working assumption was that YOU weren't interested in HIM, other than for fucking.
87
Hold up. The guy said he met someone else...
and was not allowed to elaborate.

For all we know, the guy was simply giving her a heads up that he might also be having sex with someone else in the future, which would be a stand-up and reasonably timed announcement in a casual relationship at that point.

For all we know he was going to say this new person was some sort of unicorn and he wondered if she'd be interested in having someone else in for a session or more. Such an offer might be hotter to contemplate during sex, but again, nothing wrong with the statement or timing.

The guy could have been saying almost anything about this new person, and perhaps the content of his elaboration would be bad, sad or inconsiderately timed, but we and more importantly LITL has no idea where he was going with that, because LITL freaked out on him.
88
@39 Actually, I'd say going on and off the pill is a bad idea. A lot of its effectiveness is tied to consistency - taking it around the same time every day and not starting and stopping it. When I switched pills, my doc told me to use backup for 30 days to be safe, because it can take time to adjust. So one month off, one month on would probably render the effectiveness moot, most likely, and it would wreak havoc on her periods, hormone levels, etc.
89
@9 - THAT is why straight guys will never ever hint at or volunteer any information which isn't strictly gender-conformist. People - hetero-women in particular - that men are inflexible or boring and then immediately label anything even remotely (and pretty mildly) off kilter as a reason to question their orientation.

I think she should post something - there are tons and tons of guys who are totally closeted about this rather mild kink who would love to find a woman to share it with.
90
@39 Actually, that's probably a bad idea. Much of the pill's effectiveness is tied to consistency - taking it at the same time every day and not starting and stopping it. When I switched pills, my doc told me to use backup for 30 days while my body adjusted. So if she starts and stops every 30 days, the effectiveness is likely rendered moot, and it would wreak havoc on her periods and hormone levels.
91
@83 Glad you proved my point (check #16). Women who look for a loyal, creative, fun relationship with a guy who will do anything for them in return should look into dating a cross dresser.
92
Sweet Raptor Jesus, Dan. Why can't you ever remember to suggest an IUD?
93
@92

Because the LW said her doctor suggested against it for fucks sake.
94
@39 - Doing the month-on, month-off thing is a terrible idea if she has such a bad reaction to the hormones in the pill. For one thing, it takes a full week for the pill to be effective protection. For another, the body has to readjust every time you go on or off. It took four months for my body to get back to baseline after I went off the pill, and that's not uncommon.

Husband should get a vasectomy, or wife should get a new husband. There's no way this couple should be having children unless husband undergoes a miraculous personality change.
95
mtnlion @55:
Yes she overreacted and misread her own feelings in the first place, but why must she be a FUCKING BITCH for making these mistakes?
I actually know the answer to this one. It's not the change of heart, it's not the overreaction, it's not the misreading of her own feelings. These things do happen. It's (a) the rage at him for following her rules; (b) making him feel like it's his fault for following her rules.

Let's not forget that yelling at someone with whom you're in a sexual or romantic relationship because they made a mistake or you're in a foul mood or whatever is a dick move, but it happens. Yelling at such a partner because they did exactly what you asked them to is a classic, big, waving red flag for an emotional abuser.
96
There is a procedure where they disconnect the pipes from the balls to the dick and you can have all the sex you want sans condom with no risk of pregnancy. They oughtta look into it. Or get pregnant, because that's the only reason to eschew a vasectomy.
97
For TOP, I'm suprised that noone has suggested natural lamb condoms. While they are a little pricey and not std-proof, they have a totally different feeling than rubber rubbers. In my swinging single days it was sometimes difficult to keep from shooting too quickly in them.
98
mydriasis @59: I'd agree with you, but for my personal experience. I had such a NSA FWB thing back in the days when I was flat-stomached and interesting, and we tried this, both of us at one time or another. What it led to was an endless series of "farewell fucks". It's actually comic, in retrospect. At least in this case it ended. Of course, that doesn't answer avast's comment that for all we know he was going to ask it to continue.

To the male fuck-buddy of LITL, if you're a Savage Love reader, take this piece of free advice:don't go back to this one. Chances are nine out of ten tht this game WILL start again and you WILL have the rules changed on you again and you WILL be blamed for it. I'm just some pseudonymous guy on the internet but I can tell you that I have been there more than once, I know. People who are enraged at you for following their rules and not being magically aware that they've internally changed them are trouble with a huge capital T and, frankly, they deserve to be alone and you deserve to not be used by them.

And in case anybody thinks I'm being too harsh, look at how she signs herself: "left in the lurch". In other words, given her own choice of words to encapsulate herself she chose ones which characterize herself as the wronged one, the one who was abandoned. If that isn't a "tell" I don't know what is.
99
Speaking divorce-case wise: often a wife's desire to switch to condoms was the first flag that she had lost interest in her husband; it was the first barrier to intimacy placed between them, a part of the distancing process. Doesn't apply to the LW of course, just advanced here because it was an interesting and often seen, the private and sexual version of not wanting to hold hands in public, i.e. she's still in the relationship but the husband has lost her.
100
shorter nocutename @71: It's his fucking fault and responsibility, not hers.
101
What about Fertility Awareness Method? No condoms, no spermicide, no other barriers are used unless you are fertile, which is about 8 to 10 days every cycle on average. This method is only recommended for people in a long-term committed relationship who are free of STIs and willing to communicate about fertility.

I suggest this because I become moody, depressed, and uninterested in sex when on hormonal birth control, I dislike the potential risks of the IUD (especially when a shallow vagina and a large penis collide), and my partner has sensitivity problems with condoms.

If you want to look more into this method, there are a few good books and sites out there. However, I highly suggest Weschler's "Taking Charge of Your Fertility." The method does involve commitment and the ability and willingness to stick to the rules.

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