Columns Aug 1, 2012 at 4:00 am

Sex Etiquette

Comments

104
Boy, that's pretty degrading to pegging, Dan. Do we have to be reminded of those sanctimonious smug asshats every time I give it to my husband?
105
In 2012 there is no reason to have to clear your browser history every time you watch porn. Chrome, Firefox, and Safari all have private browsing settings that basically amount to porn mode. If you're still using Internet Explorer, then for god's sake, stop.
106
Also, GAG's question is exactly like the no-brainer etiquette questions that Ann Landers used to use to fill up column space. Kind of makes me nostalgic for my preteen/early teenage years when I read Ann's column after school every day, before I grew into Savage Love.
107
My boyfriend and I share an account on the same computer, and the only problem that results when I run across his porn is that I can get very distracted by it, and end up forgetting about whatever work I've signed on to do. In some weird passive-aggressive way, I get to enjoy the fruits of his "bad behavior" while remaining innocent of the "crime" of searching for online porn. :::wide-eyed blink, blink, blink, bat lashes, bat lashes, bat lashes.
108
Dan, WHACK's letter certainly should have tripped your "How in hell did THAT happen?" sensor. I doubt that WHACK is clearing his history to protect other people's sensibilities. People with delicate sensibilities don't check browser histories--in fact, no one checks another person's history unless they're looking for dirt. WHACK is protecting himself from his nosy wife, but not very cannily or bravely. If he had brains, he'd load in a bogus history, pure as driven snow. If he had balls, he'd leave his real history there and dare her to make an issue of it. Me, I'd load it up with divorce lawyers' websites and see what she had to say about that. If he's surfing kiddy-porn sites, she should dump him; if not, he should dump her.
109
Dan, WHACK's letter should have tripped your "How in hell did THAT happen?" sensor. I doubt that WHACK is clearing his history to protect other people's sensibilities. People with delicate sensibilities don't check other people's browser histories--in fact, no one checks another person's history unless they're looking for dirt. WHACK is protecting himself from his nosy wife, but not very cannily or bravely. If he had brains, he'd load in a bogus history, pure as driven snow. If he had balls, he'd leave his real history there and dare her to make an issue of it. Me, I'd load it up with divorce lawyers' websites and see what she had to say about that. If he's surfing kiddy-porn sites, she should dump him; if not, he should dump her.
110
Some people in this thread are really extreme about their right to privacy, saying that no decent person ever looks at another person's browser history.

Look, if you're terrified of having your secrets uncovered, you should dump your current partner and find someone who is actually on your side.

I'm with @102: "I've shared a computer with a partner with no separate passwords, and it wasn't a problem, cause we weren't hiding anything from each other."

Dan generally says just be discreet if your wife gets icked out by your porn. You pretend not to use it, and she pretends to believe you. But porn use is not a Super Duper High Security "I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you" kind of secret.

Save that level of paranoia for when you're actually having an affair or stealing from your retirement accounts to pay sex workers.
111
Not everyone who doesn't watch porn begrudges other people their own enjoyment of porn. I don't watch it, and have no real interest in joining my husband when he watches it, but I've certainly never smut shamed him and I wouldn't describe myself as "anti-porn".
112
@99, Crinoline:

Yes, she might find knowing about his porn hot. But why does that mean he hast to stop clearing his browser history? Maybe he doesn't want her to know, for whatever reason. That's his right. We don't have to share everything with our partners just because they find it hot.
113
I don't know about Internet Explorer,but both Firefox and Chrome have the option for private browsing, so any website you visit while private browsing doesn't get added to the history. That way, you can visit away without having a blank history to remain as evidence.
114
WHACK: never mind the smut shaming, I would have a serious issue with any partner who took issue with a blank browser history and expected me to be OK with being checked up on. Excuse me? No thanks...

Chick-fil-A: love it! Dan, a humble suggestion for a future book: a dictionary that lists the names of asshole politicos/companies/celebrities/etc and the new definition of their names. Sadly, there are enough to choose from to fill a book...
115
WHACK, your wife should not be checking your browser history for heaven's sake. I'm surprised Dan stayed on the porn issue and didn't move on to the larger issue of invading privacy and being too controlling. You can view whatever you want and erase whatever you want and if she complains again, tell her in no uncertain terms to STOP or else.

At this point with this type of person, I'd get my own computer and password protect it.
116
I have three words, and three words only, for WHACK: Google Chrome Incognito. That is all.
117
As a lesbian: I think attachment to a harness is a lot more appropriate than attachment to the dildo. My wife and I own an array of dildos and it's the receptive partner (her, me, whoever may be visiting) that gets to choose the tool. It makes a lot more sense to me that the ex would keep the harness but the receptive partner keeps the dildo.

I understand that people might feel differently, but if you purchase the dildo yourself and keep it at your house and she purchases/hangs onto the harness, it will make a lot more sense if/when it ends for you to each keep what you've been holding onto.
118
This is not a porn problem, it's a computer literacy problem. There is a reason that all modern operating systems have multiple user accounts -- use them! Log out when you leave the computer, and then the next user (using *their* login, not yours) will never need to see your browser history or know whether or not it has been recently cleared. And even if you are not trying to hide anything, it's just better computer hygiene to have each user have their own separate account so you don't accidentally clobber each other's data or set preferences that the other person is annoyed by.
119
Whack: You and everyone focused on hiding the porn, but she (in addition to the usual female insecurities about porn) may be worried about an affair, an expensive hobby, relapse to an old addiction, etc, etc.

But hiding all porn looks odd, if she's the sort who would stop and think about it. So use privacy mode for stuff she doesn't need burned into her retinas. But leave some history of really vanilla stuff featuring nice girls who look like her so she can think that's what gets you off in her absence. Then you choose the URLs and even the time stamps for those (apparently) infrequent events.

Yeah, hopefully she just wants to know your porn habits and will be be totally cool with it. But if she's not in that 5% of women, then how does Dan say it?, "All relationships are built on a. Solid foundation of lies and deceit."
120
Eh, I am not sure Chick-fil-a for pegging works as well as santorum worked for the frothy mix. My word nerd sense tells me that it's because pegging is a verb, and all the other words are nouns. Maybe some other noun for CFA?
121
@116 Or Firefox Private Browsing. Yeah, they were basically made for porn and porn alone.
122
112-Migrationist--- Agreed. I was only trying to sum up the 3 possibilities quickly.
123
I checked my husband's browser history just out of curiosity after reading the first letter. It turns out he likes women with huge natural boobs - and watching said boobs bounce around during sex. Mine are pretty big, but these chicks make me look like the president of the Itty Bitty Titty Committee.

I'm not sure whether to feel relieved (as far as porn watching goes it's pretty tame) or insecure (my boobs aren't big enough!) I'm glad he's at least into my general body type. Maybe I should invest in some Wonder Bras?
124
@118 I agree.

I'm very surprised that so many readers use the same accounts as their spouses, hence the browser history problems.

I haven't done that since the 90s. And I bought this computer more than 5 years ago ; I must be using a dinosaur by today's standards...
125
@loril and sissoucat and others:

WHACK doesn't say they are sharing a computer.

If one needs to quickly check something I think it's quite normal in a relationship to ask to use the other one's computer if that computer is already on. It is quite clunky to change users every time one wants to quickly check train times or the weather forecast.


126
While I agree with Dan's advice to SAP, I think he neglected to address the main issue. SAP's boyfriend doesn't give a damn about SAP's feelings of discomfort when other men make passes at him ("not a big deal", huh?) and that's what's providing the conflict in the relationship, much moreso than the actual flirting issue. SAP should DTIAMFA (dump the insanely attractive motherfucker already) and find a boyfriend who cares about mutual trust and respect.
127
Re; Chick-fil-A. Fighting hate with hate again, I see. Rather unseemly.
128
What I loath about the GLBT agenda is...if your opinion is anything but 100% positive (in support of) them, then you are obviously a homophobe.

Not true.

GLBT agenda supports must have really thin skins and a praise complex.

How did GLBT people live in this world before the agenda yahoos???

Oh, and I have gays in my family, friends, co workers, the people living their life with a minimal amount of parading have my respect vs. the other flamers.

The agenda-ers want 100% acceptance when themselves are nowhere near that level of acceptance.

Whining hypocrites
129
@osage:

Who are those mysterious "GLBT agenda-ers"?

Is someone who wants to be able to marry someone of the same sex automatically an "agenda-er"? Is someone who wants to legally have sex with a consenting adult of the same sex an "agenda-er"? Is someone who doesn't want to be discriminated against because he/she loves someone of the same sex an "agenda-er"?

So, please explain who the "agenda-ers" (great neologism, by the way) are and what their agenda is.
130
@119 "All relationships are built on a solid foundation of lies and deceit."

You got a cite for that? This is what I've seen Dan say: "A successful marriage is basically an endless cycle of wrongs committed, apologies offered, and forgiveness granted, all leavened by the occasional orgasm."

http://www.thestranger.com/slog/archives…

Recommending that people be discreet about their porn use (you pretend not to use porn; she pretends to believe you) isn't the same as promoting a foundation of lies and deceit.
131
Regarding your 'programming note'- Dan, I love you!! Chick-fil-a = Pegging! Go, Spread the Word!
132
I'm feeling hopelessly out of it: I have never checked the browser history on a computer: not to see what my ex-husband had been doing, not to check up on my kids, not to check up on my ex-boyfriend, not to check up on my parents. It would never occur to me to do so--it would be like wanting to read someone's mind.

Maybe I'm unimaginative, but I don't see what on a browser's history would link to an affair (unless maybe the spouse was buying gifts online for the person s/he was cheating with, or the cheater was using an online dating site. In that case, that much stupidity deserves to be caught). Most computer-based "evidence" of an affair would be on email.

As far as people's porn-watching habits go, if the idea of your spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend watching porn bothers you, or the nature of the porn watched when alone bothers you (unless you have real reasons to suspect that the porn is illegal/unethically made), don't try to poke around to find it so it can upset you!

I love sex; read, write, and publish erotica; have no issue with any boyfriend watching porn; but do not like visual porn at all, myself. So why would I want to see something that will turn me off, but provides my partner harmless happiness?

Before there were computers, some things that went on in our partners' minds were allowed to stay private.
133
As someone who has more than once learned far too much about the sexual preferences of a friend or coworker that I'm not romantically involved with because I borrowed their computer and AutoComplete + failure to clear browser history suggested some unmistakably pornorific choices for web viewing, I urge everyone to please clear your browser history or use private viewing unless you ever, ever let anyone else use your computer. Most of us are sexual beings and most of us have kinks; I've got plenty of my own! I know my married-with-a-kid coworker has sex. But I absolutely don't need to be privy to knowledge about what kind of sex he's into.
134
Well get Chrome or most any browser, use the incognito feature which leaves no cache memory unless you are dealing with an Uber geek girlfriend, and use that to do the Porn, then keep the cache for regular browsing also one should keep the cache memory down as it can bog the computer speed down, On my mac if I do not clear the cache it will just crash.
135
Well get Chrome or most any browser, use the incognito feature which leaves no cache memory unless you are dealing with an Uber geek girlfriend, and use the incognito browser window to do the Porn,

then keep the regular window cache for regular browsing also one should keep the cache memory down as it can bog the computer speed down.
On my mac 10 plus years old if I do not clear the cache it will just crash.

The other thing is you can set what you delete of the history, so you can choose to clear pass words, recent history, web cookies, auto fill properties all under :"chrome" and then preferences, and click "under the hood" a panel pops up where you can select what is deletable
136
@tantdetentation: I would think Chick-Fil-Atio was oral sex with a chicken.

Maybe he's just overcompensating for being a boy named Cathy.
137
I like pegging, I think we should use Chik-fil-atio to mean when your partner sucks off your strap on dick. Which is insanely hot.
138
"Before there were computers, some things that went on in our partners' minds were allowed to stay private."

Um, actually after computers things that go on in our partners minds are still allowed to stay private. Computers haven't magically created telepathy. If people consider the websites they visit to be somehow equivilent to the depths of their inner thoughts then they can delete their browser history. I personally don't feel that way, but I appear to be in the minority.
139
I REALLY hope the gag was clean, I'm just sayin'...
140
@139 (mydriasis):
I meant I never check a browser history, in part because I have little interest in knowing what someone doesn't want to share with me. Also in part because most browser history of anyone I know is likely to be boring and not very interesting/revelatory!

(sigh) I am a big believer in privacy. I was being snarky for just that one sentence, but I guess it was misconstrued. The rest of my post accurately reflects my sincere beliefs.
141
@140

I think it was partly unlucky timing on your part, many people were posting rather scandalized reactions to the idea that their oh-so-private computer histories may be anything but. I was reacting less to your post itself and more the collection of posts of this nature.

I respect that everyone has their needs to privacy but people have different ideas of what that should look like. The suggestin that a married couple shouldn't use the same computer is pretty absurd in my eyes, somewhat akin to suggesting that a joint bank account is wrong and stupid and no married couple should do that. If you share a bank account, that's a los of privacy to a degree - yet lots of couples do it. There are lots of cases where intimacy and privacy conflict in a relationship and it's a very individual question how that conflict should be resolved in each case.

This one-size-fits-all "OF COURSE you should hide your internet history from your significant other" rhetoric was more what was bothering me, especially since I don't really see a need for it if you have nothing to hide from your partner.
142
Re WHACK - am I the only one not buying the "I'm so considerate I always clear my browsing history" line? I would only clear my history if I were doing something I was ashamed of. If I was not ashamed of looking at porn, I wouldn't bother clearing the evidence.
143
I think some people mentally file "browser history" along with elements of one's life that are traditionally accorded unusual privacy, like personal mail, and some people don't. I'm with nocutename: it's almost never occurred to me to check. Once or twice I've checked my kids' histories when they seemed to be using a ton of bandwidth or viruses were getting through a lot. But they're not allowed computers in non-public areas of the house until they're eighteen, so internet porn is not something I specially worry about much.
144
why on earth is it so important for men to look at porn day after day after day. Once in a while ok no big deal but if it's a daily habit then it becomes and addiction and not necessarily for a relationship.
145
Chick-Fil-A FTW!

Dan, this middle-aged, midwestern, straight, vanilla, monogamously married person thinks you're a goddamn national treasure.
146
Clearly the solution is Private Browsing. Available on most browsers, Gives you the ability to watch/do what ever you want and while it's turned on the history won't be saved and it won't require you to erase everything creating an odd absence of browsing activities.
147
@127 (Cletus)

pegging is an act of love, not hate.

we're fighting hate with LOVE.
148
It seems ridiculously obvious WHACK. Just learn how to use your browser's Private Browsing setting. They pretty much all have them these days. It won't record browser history while the setting is turned on, but it won't delete the history while the setting is turned off. So no porn sites pop up, but there's no suspiciously empty history either.
149
@147 (tenderhook): I first read that as "Pegging is an act of love, not haste," and I thought, "no, a good pegging should take its time!"

@142 (EdgarECayce): I agree that porn shouldn't be anything to be ashamed of--which makes me think that WHACK's wife is a bit wacky about porn and porn-viewing, if he feels the need to clear his history.

@Eirene, mydriasis, et al: I also never read anyone else's emails, or open any mail addressed to anyone else. When I was married, we had only joint bank accounts, but I understand if people want to manage their finances separately. It doesn't even necessarily suggest a lack of trust, either.
But it's one thing to have separate bank accounts, and another to have a an account in a Swiss bank that your spouse knows nothing about. To strain the metaphor.
150
@nocute

In the days of yore she would have to do snooping to realize the browser history had been cleared. But it's 2012 and it will take you about three seconds to notice that. Say I want to go to this website, I type in "the" and the website fills in for me (it's in the history). If someone cleared my browser history (it's her's too) I'd know the second I tried to lazily type in the first three letters of a website and the computer didn't autocomplete them for me.

If this were the 90's we could be asking "why was she checking the history in the first place?" but in this day and age it's unlikely that any snooping was done on her part.

I've had boyfriends casually ask me to check their texts, or inboxes for them "hey have I gotten an email from so and so yet? what does that text say? etc". Heck, I've even been given passwords to email, etc because they trust me not to memorize the password and use it at a later time. And I don't. If my boyfriend wants to look through my phone, I let him. Trust for me is a big part of intimacy. I understand if other people aren't 100% comfortable with that and I totally respect that (in other people's relationships).

I was more just objecting to the idea that it should be mandatory for couples to have seperate computers.

But to be clear, I never have (and never would) read someone's mail, texts, email, etc without permission in that instance. Every time I've done that it was with permission first and doing it without permission (or knowledge) is a totally different animal.
151
All browsers nowadays have an option to open a separate session in 'private' mode. That session does not store any history, but the history of the main session stays intact.

Another option is to use an entirely different browser for porn. For example, if your girlfriend uses Internet Explorer, then install Google Chrome or Firefox, and place the icon somewhere that is not obvious. Then use Chrome exclusively for porn, and clear the history every time. She'll never know. You're welcome.
152
WHACK's wife has a legitimate issue if she's upset about losing her internet history. However, the letter explicitly states that she's upset that he's "keeping secrets". Unless his masturbation is so frequent that he's neglecting her, it's none of her business. He shouldn't share any more than he feels comfortable with. And obviously, use private browsing.
153
@144 (rnydygrl): You may as well ask "why on earth is it so important for people to listen to music day after day after day. Once in a while ok no big deal."
Some people don't get why _________ (fill in the blank)is so important to other people; that doesn't mean that my daily book-reading or someone's gym time is an addiction, just because you don't want to read or work out daily. Unless the porn time is actively eating into your time together, or affecting your interactions, unless his porn watching keeps him from having real, live sex with real, live you, why is a daily porn habit any different than a daily glass of orange juice in the afternoon, or time spent listening to music daily. And why do you care?
154
@nocute

Not to split hairs but one way they're different is relatability.

I don't much care if my SO watches porn daily (again, as long as it doesn't affect me) but for me "I love music and listen to it every day" is a common interest "I go to the gym every day" isn't. Neither is "I watch porn every day".

I agree with your overall point, I just think it's fair for someone to find some passions appealing and others not so.
155
@16,17: late reply, but yes, that's obviously it. I should have thought of that ...
156
If something's on the floor next to the bed, it's hard to pretend that you didn't see it. Unless of course there's only a few inches of floor between the bed and a wall. But if it's out in the open, I would at least gently kick it under the bed.
157
Ms Erica - The first quote sounds very Wildean. Mr Savage may have to give precedence.
158
@154 (mydriasis): "I go to the gym every day" and "I watch porn daily" may not be on my or your roster, but they're neither of them uncommon. It is absolutely fair for someone to find some activities more appealing than others, and it is totally normal and okay for members of a couple to have different interests, and different routine activities. My point is that rnydaygrl is upset by the fact that the men she has known watch porn daily. She likens it to an addiction. Certainly for some people, it does represent compulsive behavior, but not every habitual activity is an addiction, and porn consumption, even if not your thing, (rhetorical "your") is not necessarily any more damaging to a relationship, even when a daily occurrence, than many other activities.
159
@nocute

Oh most definitely, I agree completely. I meant to get across that I agree with what you were saying but I wanted to add another point. I don't think there's anything wrong with watching porn daily and I think it's fairly normal especially among men. I more meant that "I listen to music ever day" adds something to the relationship (shared interests, yay!) where "I watch porn every day" adds nothing (is neutral, but not negative).

As for daily things that are damaging to a relationship? Porn, not so much. Cocaine? Beleive me!
160
@mydriasis:

"I listen to music every day" only adds to the relationship if both parties are a) interested in music and b) into the same kind of music.
161
@157 (Mr. Ven): It does sound Wildean. If it was set to music, it could be Cowardean (certainly not Cowardly, right?).
162
@160 (migrationist): Yes, exactly.
163
@ migrationist

Yeah, I thought I was pretty clear I was using myself as an example for that? As for the second part, I don't really agree - I've never dated someone who had identical music tastes to me. I find most people who are really into music are open minded about listening to things that aren't their usual go-tos. I doubt anyone can get me into pop-country but there's definitely a lot of metal on my computer that wouldn't be there otherwise.
164
Dear SAP, I was in your situation 30 years ago, and like one of the commentators, was no slouch in the looks department either. But, my ex was blond, blue-eyed and the typical boy next door. I could go on and on, but here's my advice (no where near the expert advice Dan consistently give) if your bf doesn't reinforce his relationship to you by tactile and public shows of affection in social situations , if he doesn't consistently admonished mutual friends for their passes in total disrespect to you and your relationship then the logical explanation can only be that not only does enjoy the narcissistic high from the attention it has morpth into erotic adventure and he will eventually cheat on you. It will hurt, how many of these hurts you're willing to endure is up to you. As for me, though I have moved on and enjoyed successful relationships, every now and then I remember the pain of those events and wonder if he's ever matured to realize when you're in public with your partner there are two people to think of when friends and strangers press boundaries...
165
Okay, just googled "funnel gag" and OH MY EYES!
166
Whack, the browser history also is a tool that is used to keep a record of sites previously used and assists in going to those sites without having to type all friggin' day, she may not like typing, and with you always erasing the history... probably the main reason for the venting.
167
@117 my gf and I totally agree! We both top and bottom, and we both chose
our own dildos for when we bottom. If we were to break up, we'd each keep the toys we picked out. And we wouldn't feel weird using them with future partners, mostly because we invested in pricey silicone and Vixskin stuff--which can be boiled. So I don't think your desire to keep the toys you become attached to as the receiving partner is at all weird.

But! Neither of us really identifies with the cocks we wear--it's a way to make the other person feel good, period, for us. It sounds like your ex really got into the "this is my cock" mindset. Does your current partner feel the same way, or is it just a tool for making you feel good?

Either way, I think you should invest in something nice that you really like that you keep forever and ever. Your girlfriend, if she wants, can do the same for herself. And if/when you split, you each have your own arsenal--that's just part of being a grown-ass dyke!
168
"Chick-fil-A" hee hee!

@STRAP- I'm surprised Dan didn't mention that if you buy yourself a strap-on BEFORE your next relationship, with your own funds on your own time, that strap-on is and would be seen as your property by your subsequent girlfriends. Write you name on it :) And people generally enter and leave casual relationships with their property intact. As for the strap-on you and your current SO buy together, que sera, sera. There is considerable pleasure to be had in the freedom and ability to give gifts to others, so just this once, enjoy it.
169
@132: Exactly my thoughts.

Maybe it's just because we started out with an Internet relationship, but I can't imagine rifling through my wife's browser history any more than I can image wiretapping her phone calls or tailing her when she goes out somewhere. It would seem like an unreasonable invasion of another adult's privacy.
171
@ whack; firefox has a private navigation function and so does google chrome, one mouseclick and your browser doesnt store any of the sites you visited until you resume wachting sportsresults and/or kitty memes.
172
My understanding of strap-on/general toy etiquette has always been: One person pays for it, basically because both parties know that the relationship will possibly end. Whoever pays for it keeps it. This is if both people go to the sex shop together. If it is given as a gift, the recipient keeps it. I don't think who is getting fucked and who is going the fucking has anything to do with this.

I also think it is emotionally/psychologically healthiest to throw away shared toys after a breakup if you were using the toy in the context of a serious-ish relationship and only using it with the person you were dating.
173
Why, yes! Chick-fil-A is an obvious synonym for pegging. Brilliant!
174
nocutename: Do you publish online, e-books or print?
175
Canadian Nurse: So far, just e-books. I'm trying to break into the print market. I have two or three stories out now that I'm waiting to hear back from (they survived the first two rounds of calls for submissions). Keep your fingers crossed! The very first story I ever wrote (and one that is available in e-book format), was inspired by a letter to Savage Love a long time ago!
176
Great Dan, thanks. No my girlfriend is going to think im secretly gay because i enjoy having my ass played with. awesome man, thanks a lot.
177
172--I find something a little disturbing about the idea of there being a need to throw away a shared sex toy after a break-up. I'm not telling anyone how to run their personal lives so if someone thinks that's the psychologically healthy thing to do, go for it. But ... really? The toy becomes laden with so much emotional baggage that it gets chucked? Why? Because it's too potent a reminder? It's better to go out and get and get an identical manufactured item to use with the next partner?

I can understand having a bad break-up and wanting to burn all of the jerk's personal effects. Get rid of those stupid flannel shirts he wore and that aftershave you hated. Toss her black teddy that never did much for you and those ridiculous stuffed animals. But that's assuming you're not hoping that the next partner moves in with more flannel shirts and stuffed animals. Those items tend to be highly personal, not exactly unique, but it's rare that 2 people have the exactly the same taste and size in bath care products and clothing. If it's something like cookware where you like having heavy bottomed stainless steel sauce pots, something that's pricey but the same at every Macy's, why throw them away just because he/she/it left them behind?

Unless ... there's something deeply emotionally invested in the sex toy, something that transcends the emotional investment in the person, and that's ... well, disturbing.
178
@Crinoline:

Don't you think that the idea that this silicone dildo was in someone else's vagina or anus is slightly gross?

I know this finger/ tongue/ dick were also there but somehow in my mind the juices seem to stick more to toys than body parts.
179
Crinoline, I'm straight, but most of my lesbian friends view a breakup as time to throw out the dildos.

I don't think your comparisons of mutually-shared sex toys with flannel shirts, stuffed animals, or high-quality cookware are apt. A dildo that goes in a harness so that one partner can fuck the other with it but isn't used for any other purpose or for any solo masturbation is associated, perhaps irrevocably, with the other person and the sex between the two. If it is a substitute for a body part and "Gina" uses it on "Jen," then it comes to be seen, by both Gina and Jen, as an extension of Gina herself.

If they break up, it is easy to understand why Jen doesn't want it anymore, even if she is the one who bought it or it always stayed at her house. It is also understandable that Gina would think of it as the tool that she fucked JEN with, and wouldn't want to re-use it or keep it, either.

Some people might not get so personally invested in the toy, or might think about it from a money-saving perspective, or an environmental one and not want to waste it, but I can easily understand a more emotional attachment to it.

I have a dildo/vibrator that I bought for myself. I use it on myself, whether I am alone or with a partner, and I've used it with partners that I had short-lived, extremely casual sexual relationships with. I don't feel the need to get rid of it and replace it when I stop seeing a particular man. I see it as a tool for ME, and even if stays at someone else's house, it's my toy, not our toy (even though the man might be quite happy to see me use it or to use it on me). But it has no emotional attachment; it's just a sexual aid.

On the other hand, my last boyfriend and I had gone shopping together and bought a collar for me to wear with him, for him and him only. He paid for it and it was kept at his house. It was a highly symbolic artifact, and was deeply suggestive of the nature of the relationship between us. When he broke up with me, I couldn't bear the thought of his using that collar on someone else. I asked him to please not use it with another woman, and he said, "Sweetie, that is your collar; I wouldn't use it on someone else." But when he offered to return it to me, I declined it--I don't collar myself for solo masturbation and didn't want to wear it for someone else--it had too much significance in that particular relationship. I assume or hope that he threw it away, and any subsequent relationship he gets involved in, even if the woman wears a collar for him, uses a different collar, associated with that particular woman and the nuances of that relationship.

I assume that a dildo-and-harness is much the same, if not stronger for some people. And I don't find it disturbing in the way you suggest whatsoever--just inconvenient and expensive in the event of a breakup.
180
Plus the "gross" aspect that Migrationist mentioned! You can't throw away your finger or penis, but you can replace a piece of silicone or glass/metal/plastic, whatever.
I don't want a dildo that's been in someone else inside me, even if it's been boiled in the meantime. That may be irrational, but it has a deep-seated "eeww" factor anyway.
181
178, 179, 180-- I understand throwing away the items from a sanitation perspective. My comment was in answer to 172 who called throwing away the items healthy from an emotional/psychological perspective.
182
The S.A.P. letter strikes one as fabrication.

Here's why:

First of all, most people know inherently how vast their respective leagues are as far as who's within a comfortable strata of interpersonal attractiveness.

Even upon agreeing to go out with the really good-looking boyfriend, he (S.A.P.) had to have known this sort of subject would be an issue. A whole year later and it's a problem all of the sudden...?

Bullshit.

And, unless S.A.P. is a martyr, or just a self-punishing type, there's no way in hell most people would stick with anyone who doesn't pay at least as much attention to you as they do themselves (the flattery, center of attention thing, et. al.).

The S.A.P. letter is fictional, as the order of events is unnatural and a bit hard to believe.

Verdict: Bullshit.
183
The dildo one: *of course* you get rid of the old one and get a new one with the new partner! Why does that sort of thing need in-depth analysis?

The search browser thing: your life, your business, your responsibility to maintain privacy by clearing the decks for your own protection.

The funnel gag one: it depends on how friendly you are with them. I'd say go out in their yard, grab a branch, get the funnel on the branch and ask one of the friends there, "Did anybody forget something?"

The makings for a great subsequent dinner party repartee', indeed.

And, @ 181: "throwing away the items healthy from an emotional/psychological perspective"

Texts first as has been, and then sage the phone with white sage to rid it of it's bad, outdated energy. But, mostly, just anything borne from a functional lie. Cleanse your way to enlightenment.

184
AND I hope the chickens of America make like an Albert Hitchcock movie and descend upon that retarded fat slob Dan Cathy and all his ignorant cronies and peck their fucking eyes out. You assholes sell chicken, not political opinion worth a rat's piss. Fuck Chick-fil-A. Fuck inside Chick-fil-A: right there at the counter: any gender of gay couples. Freak 'em out and then tell them the rest of the nonsense they're trying to tout outside of selling chicken is about as credible and actual as the myth of the tooth fairy. Fuck every last one of those ingrates: with that accumulating pile of out-used sex toys and dildos from S.T.R.A.P.. Sounds like she's got a few extras to spare. That, all of them dildos will be doused in the hottest hot pepper sauce prior to their best use yet in humbling the most pious of all political influence: some fucking fried chicken dump from down south more. Fuck you, Chick-fil-A. Jesus liked sucking cock and you can all go fuck yourselves central, Dan Cathy Movement.
185
Tail end of 184: no disrespect to anyone who is humane, has half a clue and also happens to be religious. I would advocate telling the Chick-fil-A people that Jesus was down with male to male oral copulation. Just to freak 'em out before the much heralded flock of righteous chickens descend and make gloopy meals of the Cathy-ites retinas and whites-of-their-eyes.

Sounds like a good time.
186
@WHACK: Your wife is being a dick. Not clearing your browser cache/history is roughly akin to forgetting to flush. Even if she likes to see that sort of thing, nobody else will be happy with stumbling across the full bowl. A policy of cleaning up after yourself is just polite.

@STRAP: If you paid for it, you get to keep it. It's YOURS, even if she uses it on you, because you OWN it. This is a girlfriend, not a spouse. You don't do the joint-ownership/divvying-up-shared-possessions-on-breakup thing until you are a formally committed couple.

If you go in halfsies on the purchase, well, you just bought yourself an argument that would have been better avoided in the first place. It only takes one time replacing your half of the halfsies arrangement to cost you as much as buying the thing outright and owning it yourself the first time.

Besides, if it is being used on you, the toy is effectively fluid bonded with you. Why would the Ex'es next girlfriend want your potentially contaminated toy used on her? Ew.
187
@3: LOL!!! Chick-fil-Atio!!! I'm still laughing! You are a genius!!
188
Just a dumb question (again)....as long as this week's Savage Love is about Sex Etiquette---is it just me, or are a good majority of EMTs so fucking CUTE?? Is it to help ease the suffering on the way to the ER?
DAMN----they're good at what they do!!!
189
Dear WHACK,

it's likely that someone already suggested this (my patience kept me from reading more than half of the (informed and well-worded)) replies sent your way, but have you considered using a second browser?

Using Safari or Internet Explorer (or Netscape...that's still a thing, right?) for non-porn and Firefox, Chrome or Skyfire (on the iPhone/iPad) for your less gf-friendly fare is an option. All have decent private browsing functionality whilst keeping your primary browser open for more chaste and/or vanilla options. It's slightly more work (and POTENTIALLY duplicitous), but it's all for saving a relationship with somebody who is awesome in every way (except her comfortability with pornography).

Again, if somebody else already suggested this: I'm sorry/thank you! The world needs more people looking at pornography. You shouldn't HAVE to live in shame or secrecy, but maintaining your relationship with your significant other (in this case) is more important than changing hearts, minds, and lady parts...

xoxo.
190
I want to reiterate the question: why does WHACK's wife think she has a right to his browser history, specifically with respect to his masturbation habits? Message to The Wife: you are perilously close to wanting to have control over things that are not your territory. What he fantasizes about when he is all by himself is none of your business. It doesn't involve you, and shouldn't have to. Pro tip: He's probably not fantasizing about you. If you wanted you in that moment, he could go find you and have the real thing. Just so you know. Now get over yourself.

Seriously, it sounds like the "masturbation habits" thing is a total red herring to distract from the real reason she is snooping in his computer. What are you REALLY trying to find, lady?
192
avast,

As I said above

In the days of yore she would have to do snooping to realize the browser history had been cleared. But it's 2012 and it will take you about three seconds to notice that. Say I want to go to this website, I type in "the" and the website fills in for me (it's in the history). If someone cleared my browser history (it's her's too, remember?) I'd know the second I tried to lazily type in the first three letters of a website and the computer didn't autocomplete them for me.

If this were the 90's we could be asking "why was she checking the history in the first place?" but in this day and age it's unlikely that any snooping was done on her part.


If they're sharing a computer it's not "his" history, it's THEIR history. Maybe SHE uses the history for HER purposes. For fucks sake... I am in awe at how many people are ignoring this very very very obvious fact.
193
What part of "and berated me for "keeping secrets" from her regarding my masturbatory viewings" are we failing to grasp here?
194
I'm with you Avast. I am in awe at how many people are completely ignoring the sentence you quoted.
195
Some people dislike porn. Some people dislike porn so much it depresses them to no end. If you aren't prepared to deal with someone like this, don't marry them. Problem solved.
196
@ avast

To be honest I took the LW's statement with a grain of salt for the reasons I explained above. I considered "um, why are you deleting the browser history all the time? Is it just because you're looking at porn? You really don't need to be keeping secrets about that" And because she was annoyed (again, if someone was deleting my browser history all the time, I'd get annoyed too) he said she was "berating" him.

I guess I found that more plausible than his wife being some kind of "ARE YOU WATCHING PORN, THAT'S EVIL AND I MUST KNOW WHAT YOU MASTURBATE TO" harpie.

Clearly other readers took what he said at face value, I just really didn't. To be fair your post was less about her "snooping" and more about her not having a "right" to know what he was looking at, so my response wasn't really relevent (my bad!).

But in the context of a relationship I personally feel that people shouldn't have to hide things from eachother. Least of all something as innocuous as porn. It's kind of weird (sexist?) on his part that he thinks he needs to hide his porn from the woman he has a long term romantic and sexual relationship with. When someone makes a conspicuous display of hiding something (and deleting your entire browser history is just that) it can make a person wonder. Maybe she was concerned about unethical/illegal porn as Dan suggested. Maybe her thought process was "if he was just watching normal porn with consenting adults he wouldn't hide that so..?"

Again, I'm just not as up in arms about privacy as all y'all. I don't equate browser history with one's diary, one's email, or the bowels of their subconscious. It's just a couple websites you visited.

But obviously you can demand whatever level of privacy you want to in a relationship (so can the LW). That's your right, too.
197
Your orifice, your responsibility to buy the sex toy for that use.

The whole "and (she) berated me for "keeping secrets" from her regarding my masturbatory viewings" thing: none of her damn business. Wife, gf, whoever it is. In this day and age, most people have their own computers, as well as their own sex toys for their own orifices.

That, and there's ten zillion sentences and comments within any given week. You're bound to miss a few things.

Some things should be separate and private. Everyone has a right to their own privacy.
198
@196: Fair enough, but if what she was mad about was that he was wiping out her ability to autocomplete, one would think she would be "berating" him about that, not about masturbatory habits.

That and the far superior solution is to have separate accounts on the machine. That way he can do whatever the hell he wants to his history without disturbing hers. (You also get your own bookmarks, settings, et cetera. My wife has an enormous library of bookmarks, and having to weed through it to find the relatively few number of mine would annoy the crap out of me.) Telling him not to clear the cache because she might need it is not a very effective solution.

"It's kind of weird (sexist?) on his part that he thinks he needs to hide his porn from the woman he has a long term romantic and sexual relationship with."

Or from other users of the machine, to whom it would be, as per my original post, something like forgetting to flush. If this pair is sharing an account, chances are anyone else who needed to check their email would use that account too, and get an eyeful.

True, browser history isn't exactly a personal diary, but by the same token, all of that stuff is by definition temporary and subject to deletion at any time -- not only by the user but by automated processes. Browsers can get sluggish and even crashy when the cache gets really full. I don't see why someone else should get bent out of shape because I keep my cache cleaned out.

UNLESS you have reason to suspect that I am cheating or engaging in some other unsavory activity. Hence my thought: what are you REALLY looking for, lady?
199
I just want to say, why not respect your wife and stop watching teen anal adventures or fisting stuff and create a new deeper intimacy with the woman you love and stop being so self indulgent.
200
I thought it was telling that the LW put "keeping secrets" in quotes, but not masturbatory habits. Heck, for all we know she said "you don't need to be keeping secrets about the websites you're visiting" and he filled in the "obviously she knows that what I'm hiding is porn and she wants to know about my masturbatory habits!!" all on his own.

Look, to me, deleting browser history is somewhat akin to hurriedly stashing the book you're reading into a drawer the second someone walks in the room. Some privacy-protecting behaviours just come off suspicious. I brought up shared bank accounts before. Do you share a bank account? Would it concern you to know that your wife had a secret bank account that she never told you about? Is there truly NO point where a need for privacy becomes alienating in your mind?

"I have always assumed that she doesn't want to see "Teen Anal Adventures" or "Lifestyles of the Deep and Fisted" when she looks at the browser history."

In other words, yeah he's concerned about others seeing it, but he also assumed that she'd have a problem with coming across his porn. Which (unless they explicitly discussed it, and it seems that they haven't) seems like a weird assumption to make. Although not weird in light of the fact that she's a woman and oh right, women hate and are offended by porn so we must hide it from their delicate eyes.

So in other words - I might not think you're cheating, but if you start acting like you have something to hide I might become suspicious?
201
why didn't GAG just ask where the lost and found was?
202
@201

cute
203
@ 200: "unless they explicitly discussed it, and it seems that they haven't"

The whole crux of all of this. Makes you wonder how well they know one another or even feel comfortable enough to allow it. And all that good stuff.
204
@200: "and oh right, women hate and are offended by porn so we must hide it from their delicate eyes."

Hahahaha. Someone needs to consult the archives and remind herself how often men get chewed a new one by their SO's for the crime of looking at porn, and how often Dan tells the women to get over it.

205
@avast

Hahaha. Someone needs to learn not to stereotype an entire gender based on the extremely skewed sample of people who get complained about to Dan Savage.

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