I miss you Dan. Two weeks, really???

Let's review, FL:

1) Ex-girlfriend lives with her, but ex-girlfriend resents any time you spend at the house?
2) Ex-girlfriend demands (and gets) inviolable access to Sundays, even though she has had the whole week to spend with her, while you have to wait your turn even though you've been gone the whole week?
3) Ex-girlfriend pitches hissy fits during YOUR dates, and your girlfriend ditches you to go console her?

You are being lied to, FL. Your girlfriend is not your girlfriend, and her ex is not her ex. You are at best a distant secondary in THEIR poly relationship, and one that is only barely tolerated by one of the primaries.

If somebody has been trying to tell you that you are the one who is in the wrong here, you are being gaslighted. In that case, DTMFA.

Do the letter writers make up their signatures, or do those come from Dan? I ask because, if I saw HORNY's letter without the signature, I wouldn't assume he was hot for his friend's mother. I'd assume he liked the 35 year old woman in some other way.

He could like her because she's a better cook than his own mother, because she listens better, is more consistent, gives better advice, is more hip or in tune with the lives of 16 year old boys in general. His own mother might have a temper or be distant emotionally. In other words, HORNY might like his friend's mother AS A MOTHER. If that's it, it makes sense for HORNY to seek out mother figures.

I'd tweak Dan's advice a little. While I see nothing wrong with masturbating to whatever fantasies you want, I'd advise HORNY to try to think about girls his own age, to try different masturbatory fantasies just as he tries different masturbatory techniques. If he absolutely wants to masturbate while thinking about the 35 year old woman, he should go ahead, but I'd encourage that to be his 2nd or 3rd choice, not "as much as he likes." Like I said, this is a tweak to the original advice, not significantly different.

I don't know if this last bit matters or not, but I just did some math. This woman is HORNY's friend's mother. Assuming that HORNY's friend is also 16, the mother had him when she was 19. She was awfully young.

Today's Carolyn Hax deals with porn. ("Is divorce the only answer when combating porn?") I think she does a good job with her answer, but I'd still like to understand the basics better. It makes sense to me why so many men would like to look at porn. I don't understand why so many women are offended that men like to look at porn.

I include myself in that question. Years ago when I first got together with my boyfriend, I found his magazines. (I was not snooping. They were on a lower shelf in his bedroom. I was looking at his books, and while they weren't displayed in plain sight, they weren't hidden.) I immediately thought to tease him about them. He told me straightforwardly that it wasn't any of my business and that if I didn't like it I shouldn't look. And that was the end of that conversation. So that one had a happy ending, but the question remains. Why was that my first response? I really don't know.

@Crinoline, my best guess is that we all, consciously or not, compare ourselves to the women in the pictures and movies and wonder if we're being silently judged as "not good enough". I don't object to porn at all -- I enjoy it myself -- but even with my own porn-appreciation I know that I constantly think about how my body is too squishy on the lower half and too small on the upper half. Knowing that my honey is habitually getting off on women whose body shape is exactly the opposite of mine makes me more than a little self-conscious.

@7

I'm not really threatened by porn ladies. Most of them aren't really anything special. But I like my body.

I've still teased guys for porn I found lying around but not in a mean way, more just "oooh, look what I found! what's this?" which usually ended with my idly flipping through out of curiousity (I don't own porn myself).

Stacy's mom has got it goin' on....

As a feminist who came of age in the 80s/90s, I heard a lot of the second-wave feminist anti-porn rhetoric: that porn directly causes violence against women, that female sex workers are ALWAYS passive victims of male domination, etc. (also, wearing makeup was bad and made you a victim of the patriarchy.) It took a lot for me to get past this - to come out as kinky, to claim my desires, to develop a more nuanced understanding of porn, sex work, etc. I still have a great deal of respect for the trailblazing generations of women before me, and I'm not naive enough to believe that we've moved beyond patriarchy any more than we've moved beyond racism, homophobia, etc. But basically, I've come to the understanding that while I don't chose to consume porn for my own purposes, that porn isn't always-already sexist, patriarchal, or bad.

Anyway, I think a lot of women of my generation are conditioned in the same way. Hence the immediate response to the porn as 'bad.'

I'm going to take a stab at the women and porn thing. Just my two cents, representing only my feelings. I don't pretend to speak for anyone other than myself.

1) I don't like to watch porn myself. There's some I hate less than others, but watching visual porn has the effect of turning me off to sex. Something about the graphic, up-close camera angles, bodies/attitudes I don't find attractive, bad music, bad acting (in commercial, story-directed porn), lack of acting-and-just-jumping-right-to-it (in amateur porn), you name it. I like written erotica because I find that it captures the feelings of desire and the feelings during sex; but visual porn doesn't do that to me, and in some weird way, I find the visual not to represent the feelings of excitement or desire or arousal I feel. Even though they obviously must be having them to perform, they don't come through on camera for me. Plus the sort of frenzied quality, while real, looks artificially speeded-up to me.

2) For me, it's not Miss Heather's response @10, but I know that a lot of women feel that way, no matter when they were raised.

3) I think that NoraCharles @7 (love that screen name, btw) expresses it well for me. It's a bottom line insecurity, a feeling that I'm being measured against something else and not measuring up.

(Now, I don't mind if my bf watches porn, though I have no interest in seeing what he watches, I might like to know the general theme, in case I find it hot, too, or just to get a better sense of what goes on in his erotic imagination. This isn't a violation of privacy on his part, and I have no judgement (unless maybe poop was involved. It's hard for me to not just be horrified by that one), it's just that when I'm dating someone, I like to know about his erotic self, his erotic history--only what he wants to tell willingly, in the interest of sharing and getting to know each other, or knowing each other in a way that not everyone in our lives does. I'm a sexual open book with anyone I'm dating, myself, and I've got some pretty embarrassing fantasies.)

But back to insecurities: the thing is, I can understand and accept that a man might love me and still want to fuck other women, that he might be satisfied by me and still want to see porn for all sorts of reasons. I think it's the sense that (if he uses porn daily, which a lot of men do) he is actively choosing to seek out women who aren't me and who might be more his physical ideal ALL the time, as opposed to seeing a woman on the street and having a sexual thought about her or masturbating later with her in mind. It's the deliberateness of it coupled with the frequency that can be unnerving and unsettling.

I would never make a big deal about it or tell him it's wrong, or consider it cheating, or anything else. People have a right to their private sexual fantasies and their masturbation material, even when coupled. But I'm still uncomfortable at the thought that I'm being compared, possibly unfavorably, to the women he's seeing in porn, and whom he goes out of his way to see regularly.

Really excellent responses in all three cases. Thank you for your good sense.

@10: Excellent points but I think your "complaints" against the genderspeak of 2nd wave feminism could just as easily be leveraged against the sort of thought behind race identity politics. But that's another nut to crack.

I think the "porn is bad" idea is akin to the Disney/Cosmo ideal of romantic love: We all have a soul mate--only one--who will fulfill every social, emotional and sexual need. And going outside the relationship for ANYTHING is a sign of pathology that can only be eradicated with hours of intense couples counseling.

@11 (nocutename): I like your philosophy.

One thing worth mentioning, if it helps: I suspect most men aren't actually comparing you unfavorably to the women they see in porn, certainly not in the moment. It's more like, "There's a real live naked woman in my bed, I can't believe my luck!"

Porn is generally inferior to one's actual partner in any number of ways: small screen; two-dimensional image; no smell/taste/touch; static and non-interactive; lousy writing; lousy acting; general sense that the people involved are not actually having a good time. This last is the big one for me. Sure, I like to look at naked people. And I like to look at naked people really enjoying each other. Most porn doesn't meet that standard.

I think my response to porn is akin to NoraCharles. Logically, I'm not threatened by porn ladies because I know they are idealized versions of women. But when discussing porn with my last partner, he pointed out his favorite, and I asked why. Why this person specifically? And he proceeded to list every single attribute that was the complete opposite from myself. So yeah, my self esteem took a bit of a hit from that. There were other reasons why the relationship fell apart, but one of my main issues was that I felt he wasn't attracted to me. (He later confessed that this was true, so it wasn't just me projecting my insecurities on to him.)

Do I think porn is bad? Not necessarily. But it can play to some women's fears and insecurities. And unfortunately, that means that the men who view porn should be sensitive to that possibility in their partners. I don't think porn use should be hidden, and such things should be able to be discussed between consenting adults in a relationship. However, it isn't an issue that can always be worked through in a logical manner. Women in society are constantly told that we aren't good enough. That we should be able to skate through life with a demanding career and five children in tow. And heaven help you if you step outside the house in anything less than designer duds, and you better be perfectly coiffed and made-up, too! Most porn is just another example of this. We can't help but to compare ourselves to the images on the screen. The feelings that are brought up by porn are deep-seated and inherently irrational. And a lot of us are working through it. But some just can't let go.

It's not so much that I would have a problem with a guy I know getting off to X or Y image. It's more that I would have a problem with a guy looking at certain images typical of commercial porn and not laughing hysterically.

Dan, I'm having withdrawal! Seriously though I hope you're enjoying your holiday.
Your advice to FL was spot on. That ex of hers sounds creepy though.

@nocutename's point #1: When I was 14 a weird male friend took me to a skeezy, sticky, hardcore movie theater, and I was so grossed out by what I saw, enormous, on the screen, that I avoided porn videos for a couple of decades. But I've found more recently that if I'm aroused enough (if we're masturbating, or having sex) while we watch, then I enjoy it a lot of the time. Especially if I have control of the remote.

And even more if we are watching man on man.

@12: Mr. P. was surprised to find, when he finally had sex with some extremely large-breasted women, that the experience wasn't nearly as satisfying as he had imagined. Or maybe he just said that to make me feel good. (If so, it worked! :-)

avast@15: sometimes we act out what we see on screen, as it's happening; that helps bring more of our senses into the experience. Also, we preview and reject videos that either one of us finds icky.

Well, the SLLOTD doesn't always go out to folks who have the Savage Love app for Android. I can go for several days without seeing one. Sometimes I get multiples after a dry spell, and sometimes I'm just completely cut off for a while. I guess the SLLOTD admin and I... well, we have different needs. We're just not compatible. But I knew that was a possibility when I downloaded it.

But when they work they're so good...

I don't think there is anything wrong with viewing porn but I do think us guys can do a few things to make our significant others feel better about it. The worst thing a guy can do is to hide his porn viewing from his SO unless that has been specifically requested. That does nothing but make it feel like a secret being kept from your loved one, and that rarely has a healthy effect on a relationship.

I look at porn a decent amount, but I also keep a folder on my computer of the best stuff, and I share these images/videos with my wife. I keep an eye out for porn that I know my wife will especially enjoy but I do have a tiny bit of an agenda with some of what I show her. My wife is a curvier lady (which I love!)and at times isn't as thrilled with her curves as I am. I try and be sensitive to this and I rarely include images of women that I fear she will simply compare herself to and find herself lacking (wrongly, but I get where that comes from). I also always include images of curvier women in the porn that I share, even though she rarely finds them as arousing as I do, as yet another reminder of how much I enjoy a full figured woman.

@7 Crinoline - depending on where you live, 19 year old moms are not that unusual. When I lived in Colorado, girls being married at the age of 16 was not that odd - I worked with at least two girls who were both married and divorced before they were 20 (one was 21 when I met her, and had a 5 year old girl). Another co-worker's mother was 15 when she married, and had her third child (my co-worker) when she was 19.

@5 Your response comes across as painfully naive. Loves her "as a mother"--are you kidding?

1) Yes, letter writers make up their own signatures. HORNY tagged himself as horny.
2) Why would the fact that the friend's mom is married be an issue ("But") if he just liked her as a mother figure?
3) Why would someone write to a sex advice columnist about wanting another maternal figure in one's life?

Seriously, I don't see how anyone could interpret that letter in that way.

I don't think there is anything wrong with viewing porn but I do think us guys can do a few things to make our significant others feel better about it. The worst thing a guy can do is to hide his porn viewing from his significant other unless that has been specifically requested. That does nothing but make it feel like a secret being kept from your loved one, and that rarely has a healthy effect on a relationship.

I look at porn a decent amount, but I also keep a folder on my computer of the best stuff, and I share these images/videos with my wife. I keep an eye out for porn that I know my wife will especially enjoy but I do have a tiny bit of an agenda with some of what I show her. My wife is a curvier lady (which I love!)and at times isn't as thrilled with her curves as I am. I try and be sensitive to this and I rarely include images of women that I fear she will simply compare herself to and find herself lacking (wrongly, but I get where that comes from). I also always include images of curvier women in the porn that I share, even though she rarely finds them as arousing as I do, as yet another reminder of how much I enjoy a full figured woman.

Sorry for the double post.

"All men watch porn."

Oh really? Dan, it gives me great pleasure to introduce you to:
hhtp://www.NoPornPledge.com

"All men watch porn."
Dan, we'd really appreciate it if you'd stop perpetuating this myth.
Sincerely, all the thousands of men and women at www.NoPornPledge.com

"The worst thing a guy can do is to hide his porn viewing from his SO unless that has been specifically requested. That does nothing but make it feel like a secret being kept from your loved one, and that rarely has a healthy effect on a relationship."

I agree!

I also don't understand why women assume that the women in her man's porn is his ideal women. In fact, I'd bet most guys find their girlfriends/wives more attractive than the women in his porn but maybe I'm a romantic. I've never found porn stars even slightly threatening and I wish more women felt the same.

I agree fullheartedly with #11 (nocutename). I'm OK with my husband beating off to somebody else's image for 5 minutes a day because I have a GOOD imagination, erotica isn't hard to find, and I have a magic bullet that can get me off faster than any of his masturbatory methods (some men are SERIOUSLY threatened by women's sex toys.)

Porn is more of a educational tool for me. "I'll try that next time!" but I try not to watch it with him because I spoil the mood with my constant giggling. To women like me, sex will never LOOK as wonderful as it FEELS.

Perhaps I haven't delved deep enough into the world of porn to find someting I'd like...but porn or lack thereof has 0 effect on our sex life. There are days when he asks me to stay home from work so he can have me instead of porn. I find it kind of sweet.

@26, I'd bet an awful lot of money that the people who sign the No Porn Pledge are spanking it to some of the most transgressive and bizarre porn online... Silently, in their shame hole, when no one is watching.

One can easily explain the fascination with porn by men- consider that the wisest man who ever lived (Solomon according to the Bible) had 1,100 wives and 800 concubines. I would guess he did not spend much time jerking off to porn. Variety is the spice of life.

To the women who are jealous and/or hostile to porn that is easily explained: Feminine power is the power to deny the man his pleasure. Since the woman (9 out of 10 relationships with different numbers perhaps for Dan's audience) is the one with the power to say NO then her power over the man is decreased by his ability to obtain orgams outside the relationship. Wasn't that fun?

dearest sweetest Dan...i find your response to this letter about cheating annoyingly conventional...read...unrealistic, ignorant....as far as i can tell, the evidence suggests that humans, especially the male variety, are naturally polygamous. the attempt to practice monogamy may have had some benefits over the last several thousand years. or it may have been the main cause for sorrow in the human race. at least it was in my parents' case......(and at least 50% of all other attempts). either way, it is becoming increasing obvious that Monogamy's time has finally come. go ask your local Gorilla or chimp. their wisdom, which goes back millions of years before the human advent of monogamy, is probably trustworthy

@32 - where the fuck have you been? Dan is one of the greatest proponents of non-monogamy out there! Preaching to the choir, baby.

Women like porn. They just prefer written porn instead of visual porn. From an item posted on SLOG...

And just four months after its publication in book form [in the UK], Fifty Shades of Grey is outselling Dan Brown’s The Da Vinci Code and JK Rowling’s Harry Potter books, say experts.

EL James’s erotic novel, released as an e-book last June and in book form in April, has sold 5.3million print and digital copies, according to publishers Random House.

I'm not so sure it's "very few men" who don't watch porn. I suspect quite a lot don't, just because it doesn't occur to them and/or doesn't float their boats, not necessarily because of Deeply Held Beliefs. I think there are probably very few men who haven't been exposed to porn at some time, but that's a different matter.

@32: I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that, say, genocide has been the cause of more human sorrow than monogamy.

I would also point out:
a) It makes more sense to look at what humans do, since that's our same species, than to look at the ape or monkey species that has the answer you want, then announce that humans must like totally be just like bonobos (lots of partners for everyone) or gorillas (one powerful male with a harem). Based on sexual dimorphism, for instance, we'd guess humans to be mildly polygamous; this matches what's observed in your small tribes. (One mate for most men, two for a few powerful ones.)

b) There is nothing in any of the letters that makes sense with your comment. The closest is HORNY's letter, in which the *sheer blazing stupidity* of sleeping with your friend's mom, or indicating to her or your bf that you want to, was the reason not to do it.

@34:
I think you nailed it:

"Signing a no porn pledge would suggest that you'd really like to look at porn but will refrain from doing so.

I have no desire to eat my own shit but wouldn't sign a No Shit Eating Pledge as it would seem somewhat superfluous to say the least."

And I don't think all men watch porn. My ex said he didn't watch porn. I don't have any reason to not believe him since he shared his collection of erotica freely with me.

I signed the Noh Porn Pledge, promising not to watch any porngraphy in which all the actors are masked, and the female roles are all played by men.

@37
You're probably right to a certain extent. People over a certain age may not be too familiar with the easy availability of porn. Poorer folks with little computer/internet access also may view little or no porn. However, as a guy with many guy friends from all kinds of socioeconomic/political/religious/etc... backgrounds, the vast majority of men with easy access to porn watch porn. Dan's rule of thumb is probably pretty accurate for, say, men under 50 with high speed internet access.

I don't usually LOL, but "Dan, I hope you're enjoying your holiday" is right up there with "Excellent advice, Dan!" like he actually reads these comments.

I have other reasons for not being into porn. I don't like it personally for me. I don't care if *other* people are into it. I wouldn't be "offended" exactly if the husband was into porn (he's one of those rare guys who isn't... but that's because he had a hardcore hooker habit for about 15 years so porn seemed like a time waster to him. Why whack off to pics when for not a whole lot of money you can actually fuck a girl like that?)... but I find it kind of.... well here let me compare it to another pastime of mine: food.

I enjoy food, preparing food, different styles of food, sharing food, sometimes in groups, sometimes alone, sometimes with a partner. I enjoy that my partner shares a similar level of interest in food and different styles of food. However, if I see him noshing on ritz crackers and spray cheese I'm like "really?" and my nose sort of turns up. It kind of lowers my opinion like he's not that discerning after all and clearly doesn't appreciate the nuances of well prepared food as much as I thought. Because I find that kind of food (and porn) really silly, amateurish, pathetic, not a turn on, so because I'm a selfish narcissist, I think he should feel that way too obviously. (I am incredibly self centred, I won't even pretend). I like looking at some nice tasteful porn pics (I guess we can throw old skool Playboy in there?) but god most anything I've seen in the last 10 years in the mainstream is the same old crap fake bake bare pussy french manicure bobbing up and down constant anal shaved bare dudes (I graduated almost 20 years ago... when I was learning about sex, bare guys were gay guys so I just became conditioned to thinking of them as eye candy at best and not for me) and it just does nothing for me. So when a guy says he likes porn, for me, it's the equivalent of some supposed foodie saying they love McDonald's. It just lowers my opinion of them.

@ wendy

Interesting!

I also use a food analogy to explain why I don't like or use porn (and I guess I'm somewhat like your husband in this respect).

I love to eat. (Food and sex play near-identical roles in my life, actually) I love it. I would eat all day and all night if I could. But I have zero interest in watching someone else eat, and watching someone else eating when you're hungry and don't have any food? Damn, that's like torture in my books.

So my attitude towards porn has always been "why watch someone else do what I want to do instead of just doing it myself?"

On whether all men look at porn-- I think it's safe to say that all men have looked at porn at one time or another. In the name of research, I asked my boyfriend if he looked at porn. (I said further up the comments section that I'd found his magazines when we first started seeing each other 25 years ago.) He shrugged and said no. I believe him. I believe this is true for many middle aged men. They may have looked at porn when they were teenagers, but they've outgrown the need now.

I'd also make the distinction between porn and porn. When I was coming of age in the 70s, I thought that soft porn was naked adult women from the waist up (Playboy) and hard porn was naked adult women from the waist down (Penthouse). Things have changed so much that you may all get a giggle from that. I remember the sort of shock I got (in the 80s) when I first got a glimpse of Hustler magazine and saw pictures of naked adult people in violent situations and stories depicting children in sexual situations (no photos, but there were cartoon drawings). A lot of what I considered porn (those naked adult women) is advertising on billboards now.

I'm still asking myself why (if I'm going to be really honest) I'd object to the idea of a man I'm seeing jerking off to porn. I'm sure I don't mind if it's just to those pictures of naked adult women. I know I don't measure up to the airbrushed ideal, but I'm not insecure. I know I look good. (Or did. I'm older now and look good for my age but not compared to my younger self.) I think I would mind if the porn were of the violent or kinky sort.

This presents a contradiction. My fantasies are far more kinky than my boyfriend's. I like the fantasies in the Ann Rice Beauty series sort. I understand that men's porn tends to be visual and women's tends to be more story oriented, so in theory, I should be okay with a visual depiction of the very sort of thing I think about, but I'm not. (I'm not saying I'd pitch a fit, only that I'd want my boyfriend to hide it away and not tell me about it.) I think that visual porn comes close to that line between reality and fantasy. It's a line I don't want crossed.

46-Wendykh-- I think you're on to something with your comparison to foodies and greasy fast food. I'm not going to start a crusade to stamp out every MacDonald's in the neighborhood, but I am going to wrinkle my nose as I drive by. I'm not going to insist that everyone has to like the same same duck breast with cherry reduction and morel mushrooms that I do; I understand that you might order the lobster bisque with chevre chaude, but we can equally disdain the burger, fries and shake.

@41: As with every other "humans are the only species to blank" assertion, stating that other primate species don't have culture is an overreach. They don't have human culture, fine, but there are sometimes differences in different groups. As with human tool use vs that of other species, it's more a difference of degree than kind.

And runs into the perennial problem that the other primates don't have one single model, so arguing which is "the natural" one for humans, discarding all the others, is a matter of choosing the evidence that supports one's preconceived position.

And human culture is hardly unimportant. Our ability to come up with rules of social interaction that let us work together in larger and larger groups, and pass information in so many ways (e.g. the vast opportunities of the oral tradition vs what a parent can model for a child, in terms of dealing with challenges that arise every few generations), is hardly unimportant. Cultures all over the world, throughout time, create art and tell stories and generally do complex things with complex reasoning: pretending that shouldn't really apply in how they handle reproduction or pair bonding or the forming of larger familial groups seems deliberately short-sighted.

@IPJ

"a matter of choosing the evidence that supports one's preconceived position."

This is essentially what pop evo psych is used for. Which is why it's beloved by psuedointellectual straight men who aren't any good with women as well as your garden variety racists and sexists.

Anyway, good post.

I only watch porn that's fresh and locally sourced.

I didn't like visual porn until I found some wonderful gay stuff where the men were gentle and tender with each other. That really opened my eyes to the idea that there was some sexual stuff out there that I *wanted* to see.

Of course I was looking around for that stuff because I was writing sexually explicit porn of men screwing and loving men. That's what turns me on! (And how I found Savage Love - I needed research material.)

Intellectually, I have no problems with men watching porn. Emotionally, I'd be jealous of the attention my partner gave porn just like I would be if he ... well, anything that took his time away from being available to me. If I adore his company and want it constantly, then anything that takes away from that will be disliked. I hope I'm either disinterested enough in my partner that I don't care, or mature enough to handle my feelings in other ways. But that doesn't mean I don't understand the feeling. It's jealousy - plain and simple.

For men who aren't my partner, I feel threatened and insecure about them looking at porn, because it indicates they are really turned on by women who aren't remotely similar to me. And men's positive regard for a woman's sexiness makes a big difference in how they treat you - whether you get promotions, help when you ask for it, or even just directions or the time of day when you stop them on the street. Looking at heterosexual porn reminds me that I'm not what's considered sexy or attractive in this society.

@43 - God, that was funny! Thank you for that.

@27 - I think it's funny that there are "thousands" of people pledging not to watch porn (which, as someone else astutely pointed out, intimates that they'd otherwise really LOVE to.) I wonder how many "thousands" of people that leaves on the planet who DO look at porn? Perhaps MILLIONS of thousands who do?

I use porn medicinally, and don't miss it when I'm with a woman who is willing to do unto me what I can only watch others doing when I'm forced to be celibate.

@ #26/27
I'm guessing that the people who sign the No Porn Pledge are very much like the kids who sign Chastity Pledges (you know, the ones who, in great numbers, end up as teen mommies and daddies).
No Porn Pledgers are probably hiding in the basement, spanking to the raunchiest stuff out there.

I used to be self-conscious about my size B, HWP breasts until I found out that huge-breasted women's breasts slump to the sides/armpits when they're on their backs. Mine don't.

@50 @54: I think you both raise some interesting and accurate points, but it seems (forgive me if I've gotten the wrong impression from your posts) that you've both taken a rather black-and-white stand on human/non-human primate differences and similarities. And since black-and-white is (almost) never right, I'd like to offer my own two cents with an attempt to point out that it is a complicated matter and requires nuanced arguments that strike a balance between the oversimplified perspectives you seem to be endorsing. First of all, similarities between human and non-human primates provides us with fairly strong evidence that whatever it is that's similar is evolutionarily old, so to speak. Given that we did not descend from any living primate species (we share a common ancestor -- how recently we split off depends on the specific species; we branched off from other primate species at different points in time), we cannot conclude that differences must be the result of our moving away from what is "natural." That is, it's not the case that chimps are exactly what humans were before culture intervened -- chimps and humans were never identical, so differences observed between these species do not conclusively prove that it was cultural rather than evolutionary forces that led to a given difference. We can, however, be reasonably sure that a similar trait, cognitive ability, etc. must be an evolutionarily old one; it is certainly possible that a shared trait or ability developed independently in each species after the split, but such a coincidence is generally less likely than the similarity having been present in our common ancestor. Second, it follows from the first point that there are strong genetic predispositions toward certain inclinations and behaviors that are clearly shared by non-human primates. (Brief aside: very interesting research into the biases NHPs show when put in the role of consumer in a marketplace has helped to expose the traditional economists' assumption that humans are always "rational economic agents" as completely inaccurate). However, the idea that "what is natural is right" is a dangerous fallacy. To take an obvious example, rape is a behavior shared by human and non-human primates that is surely an evolutionarily old instinct that existed in our common ancestor. But I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of humans would not reason "well, hey, some of our closest living relatives rape, so it must have deep evolutionary roots, which means it's natural. And here I've been thinking that rape is wrong! I'm sorry I judged you, rapists, have at it! After all, you're just doing what primates do." And I'm sure we all agree that the fact that chimps -- our closest living relative -- routinely commit infanticide shouldn't compel us to accept infanticide as an acceptable behavior. Of course, that "natural" doesn't equal "right" isn't difficult to see in these sorts of examples. Monogamy is trickier. Having multiple sexual partners isn't comparable to rape or infanticide (some who go to the extreme in moralizing sexual behavior might disagree, but I don't think many readers of this column fall into that category). And, yes, the desire for more than one partner almost certainly originated way back in our evolutionary history. On this matter, I'd argue that while polyamorous folks aren't necessarily doing anything wrong (they could be if, for example, they are deceiving someone into thinking they are monogamous with that person, especially if they are taking risks with other partners that could lead to an STD being passed along to the one they are deceiving), it doesn't follow that monogamous couples are doing something unnatural or would be better off abandoning monogamy. For one thing, nothing is "unnatural" -- we think of many human artifacts and practices as "unnatural" because they wouldn't exist if there were no humans. But humans are animals, not supernatural beings who live outside adherence to the laws of nature. Human culture itself is "natural" it developed because of the way we happened to evolve and come into contact with tribes other than our own. Similarly, cars, spaceships, and GMOs are as natural as birds nests -- the former may be "fancier" creations than the latter, but even that is debatable if we level the playing field of comparison by taking into account the differences between human form and cognitive ability and bird form and cognitive ability. So, the claim that "products of culture are unnatural" is a fallacy that only gets more off-track with the addition of "and therefore wrong." Culture is as much a result of evolution as opposable thumbs. Apologies for what has turned into an extremely long-winded "two cents" -- I'll wrap it up by saying that there's nothing wrong with people who prefer polyamory and it is absurd to suggest that having multiple sexual partners is evidence of pathology or moral depravity or anything else along those lines. But it doesn't follow from this truth that there's something wrong with people who prefer monogamy. Even if 95% of the population fails in attempting monogamy or never attempts it to begin with, it is absurd to suggest that monogamous couples are unnatural or weird or living the wrong way. Perhaps I could have skipped this whole rambling argument and just posted "We don't have to condemn monogamy to embrace polyamory and vice versa, so everyone should chill out about which is "better" and practice 'live and let live' instead."

Great advice to HORNY, Dan.

2 weeks---I'm with @2: I'll miss you, too!!

Hunter78,

Hm, well, perhaps I misunderstood your line about "go ask your local Gorilla or chimp. their wisdom, which goes back millions of years before the human advent of monogamy, is probably trustworthy." I read that as suggesting that what is evolutionarily old is "right" and that the chimp way is "wise." If we should use chimp wisdom to guide our sex lives in one case, why wouldn't we use it across the board (e.g. rape)? Furthermore, with "the human advent of monogamy" you seem to be implying that a human practice that developed after we split off from chimps must be "unnatural" or lacking wisdom (of course, humans are not the only species to "invent" monogamy; swans, wolves, and gibbons (a species of ape) all mate for life). With your comment about the "human advent of monogamy," do you mean to suggest that human evolution stopped when we split from chimps and we somehow became above nature such that we could invent ways of living that have no evolutionary explanation? Or perhaps you mean that the course of human evolution since the split has led us astray in some areas? If that's what you mean, then how do we decide which differences we should view favorably or unfavorably? It seems to me this is just a matter of opinion; one can argue that ape wisdom should guide our behavior in the case of polygamy but not rape, but what grounds that argument other than the opinion that polygamy is good but rape is not? Also, monogamy itself must be explainable in evolutionary terms -- it did not spring into being independent of evolutionary forces (neither did religion, government, shaving, etc.). I am not suggesting that factors such as historical accidents haven't also played an important role in many human practices, but any explanation of something humans do that does not include an evolutionary account in necessarily incomplete (which doesn't make it a bad or unhelpful explanation, just incomplete).

You also wrote "monogamy's time has finally come" which is hard to interpret as meaning anything other than "it's time to reject monogamy altogether." And that, in turn, is difficult to understand as saying anything other than "monogamy is bad" (why else would our best course be to make it a thing of the past?) If we bring in the line about monogamy "as the main cause for sorrow in the human race," it gets even harder to read your comment as saying anything other than "monogamy is bad." (And, given that you point to the "wisdom" of non-human primates to, I assume, support your claim about monogamy, it really seems like you are equating "natural" with "right." Why would you suggest we look to ape wisdom if you're not asserting that what is evolutionarily old is right?

Finally, what would you say to those, however few they may be, who successfully and happily maintain monogamous relationships? Should they get back to their common-ancestor-shared-with-apes roots and start sleeping around, even though they don't want to? Perhaps you meant that insisting on monogamy for everyone is what should be rejected. That would certainly be more reasonable than arguing that polyamory ought to be what we insist everyone do. If that's what you meant, though, why the attack on monogamy? Asserting that "monogamy causes suffering" and "its time has come" doesn't seem to strengthen your defense of polyamory (which, by the way, also causes its fair share of suffering -- for many people, being "cheated on" causes a whole lot of pain. Again, I have no problem whatsoever with polyamory as long as it doesn't involve deceiving a partner, but my shaped-by-evolution brain also doesn't want my girlfriend to sleep with anyone else and I don't think that's something I need to work on changing.

Hunter78,

Oops, my bad -- apologies!

You did indeed raise perfectly reasonable points, and I have no objection to them.

I think my confusion can be best explained by the fact that, although I read many online columns on all sorts of topics, I almost never post comments. Reading Sanfranciscojim1's comment really irked me, though, because I work in the field of evolutionary psychology and get really sick of people basing claims on evolution science when they clearly do not understand the field. It especially annoys me when these arguments are made in support of their pet theory about such-and-such.

In any case, I'll be more careful the next time I feel compelled to post a comment, whenever that time comes....

I am a woman that really enjoys watching porn. I don't understand other women's problem with porn; if you don't like it don't watch it, but don't ruin it for anyone else. Take enjoyment from your significant other experiencing enjoyment. If they stop taking care of you due to their excess usage of porn then it becomes a problem, but otherwise myob.

@Hunter78
I'm somewhat ashamed to say that I know you are slightly wrong about Jeri Ryan. She was on Voyager, not NG. Voyager was quite a bit more desperate for viewers since it was a second-rate Star Trek on a second-rate network.

Ok, the letter writer states "I caught him cheating on me. Not physically cheating, but he was talking to girls and they would send him pics."Then she goes on to say"I caught him watching porn. He doesn't know. It doesn't bother me that much, but I was wondering if it could lead to him cheating on me again"I cant believe Dan didnt address this,but I will do it for him. UHHH,what do you mean,cheat again????He never cheated on you to begin with.Talking to people isnt cheating,and if my girlfriend had phrases like " not physically cheating" I would run,run,run.

@77 "Even if she had a magical, velvety-soft vagina"

Me, I installed spike strips in my vagina, and a sign saying "Warning Do Not Back Up"...

76, 77-- There's no universally accepted definition of cheating. For some, phone sex and sending nude pics constitutes cheating. For some, that's the same as smiling and making eye contact when shaking hands. The impression that I got from SFTSLAFi's letter was that the talking to other girls was sexually explicit, that the pics were sexually explicit, and that SFTSLAFi's boyfriend was engaging in both with an eye towards progressing the relationship towards actual physical contact sex. In my book, that's cheating. In my book, looking at porn is not cheating. Hell, in my book, just going to a bar and buying a woman a drink because you hope to lie to her about your marital status and have sex with her later is, even if you don't succeed, cheating. Buying a woman that same drink because you're friendly, want to talk, and she bought the last round is not cheating. Intent is everything. So you guys can beat up on me and my rule book

@80: I agree. I interpreted "talking to girls and they would send him pics" as "in response to his OKCupid profile, in which he failed to mention he has a girlfriend." That is, even if he claimed it was just for fun and he wouldn't have met any of those girls for reals, it sure looked like he was intending to cheat. He's just in the early stages of lining up the other girl.

There's a big difference between "Here's me and Ashley at the Zeppo" sent to 20 people, and "Here's me looking as cute or sultry or naked as possible" sent to one guy.

@79 EricaP: You GO, girl!!

After 9 days of sheer hell, I am back from recovering from what I forewarn EVERYBODY to try to avoid if possible: kidney stones!!! They come out of nowhere, like a nuclear bomb out of a clear blue sky, and it is the most excruciating pain imaginable!!

I understand that men have an even worse time passing kidney stones.
It's compared to experiencing hours and hours of hard labor, childbirth, and delivery.

So, as of Sunday, I came the closest I'll ever get to motherhood (yeah, RIGHT!), and gave birth to a bouncing baby sand pebble after guzzling water by the truckload to get rid of the little booger. I'm thinking of naming it either Pearl or Sandy. My landlady is going with the former of the two name choices.

Now if only Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, ad nauseum could get kidney stones. They'd open up abortion clinics on every street corner.

@84 yikes! Glad you're feeling better now!

@85: Thank you. I feel so much better! I just hope to God I never have another one!!

@3 You don't know very many lesbians, do you? lol... The "everything but the sex and label" situation with the ex is all too common. Been there, done that...