@Ven

What?

Are you familiar with this thing called quote marks? When you put text inside them it means that you're using words that someone else said.

In other words: no. I will not use my so-called dominant personality (excuse me?) to change a quotation of someone else's words.

@mydriasis: I think Mr. Ven was suggesting that you exercise your outspoken personality to suggest that your friends not use that particular locution anymore as he finds it offensive or cringe-worthy. In other words, could you prevail upon your friends to not say "I'd go gay for her."

At the risk of misrepresenting Mr. Ven's meaning or intention, I don't know that he meant it literally. I think his main goal was to convey his disgust with the phrases '"I'd go gay for her/him" or "I'd go straight for her/him."'

I don't think he meant for you to misquote or misrepresent speech already uttered.

@Roma: I sent you an email. I await your question.

@22: Yes.

@nocute

Except ven is a stranger who doesn't know my personality.

I've dealt with lots of different kinds of people. For example, at my current job I've worked with hundreds and hundreds. Which means I've been a casual participant in lots of conversations with people I don't know very well. If I were to hear someone say something massively racist (never happened) or homophobic (I don't thinik it's happened but it may have) then I'll speak up. I don't think that makes me a 'dominant personality' it makes me a decent fucking person.

Long story short, I hear a lot of things outside the context of conversations with friends. I've never heard my friends use that expression.

@Hunter

Considering the fact that you have never seen me and thus have NO idea what I look like. What is up with your desire to fantasize that I am "narrow hipped"?

A finger in his ass makes him cum?

Sheez.

I need the whole hand.

;-p

A finger in his ass makes him cum?

Sheez.

I usually need the whole hand.

;-P

@94, 104,105, 113 (mydriasis):

1) You initially implied (at post 94) that the phrase which offended Mr. Ven was one spoken by you acquaintances.

2) You have represented yourself here time and again (and as recently as post #113) as someone who is direct and outspoken, not a wishy-washy, passive person. You've mentioned repeatedly standing up for yourself and others.

3) It was not unreasonable, therefore, for Mr. Ven to assume that you would be in the position to exert some influence over your friends. I'm not even sure that he really asked or expected you to ask your friends to drop an expression he finds repugnant, or merely to know that he considers the expression repugnant.

4) You appear to misunderstand Mr.Ven's request, thinking that he's asking you to misrepresent someone else's already-spoken expression. You react to that at post #104 with a tone that's barely keeping within the boundaries of civil discourse.

5) I try to clear up a misunderstanding in post 105. Sometimes Mr. Ven expresses himself somewhat obliquely.

6) You back-pedal, suddenly disclosing that in fact, your friends don't use that phrase, and taking issue with Mr. V's description of yours as a "dominant personality," in a way that does more to establish that dominant personality. You show anger at him for presuming to know how you are based on how your written persona appears.

It seems your reactions at least in this matter, are somewhat out of proportion. Hence Hunter including calling you "thin skinned" in his otherwise egregious regularly-scheduled attack of you.

For those interested in the issues raised by Hunter @109/112:

Imagine a straight snowboarder-guy, who found himself attracted to another snowboarder-guy. If he weren't worried about losing his straight privilege, he could just ask the other guy if he's interested in a fun sex romp. In a better world, that wouldn't destroy his life, or make him gay or even "gayish," as Hunter put it. It would just make him a 1 instead of a 0 on the Kinsey scale.

When Hunter says that wanting to be penetrated makes you "gayish," that's like people saying "I'd go gay for him." It implies that being gay is less desirable than being straight, and it implies that a little bit of "gay" contaminates your whole sexuality, the way the "one-drop" rule worked in race relations.

If I use my left-hand for something once, that doesn't make me left-handed. But thank goodness we've mostly moved beyond the prejudice against left-handed people, so no one cares whether or not I'm left-handed. I hope for a day like that in the future around gender and sexuality: when people don't both police the lines, because no one cares what other people do.

Edit: ...when people don't bother policing the lines

@118 (EricaP): Me, too.

As might be expected of someone who appreciates the Bolter, Ms Cute has represented me with considerable accuracy. I did get the impression that the phrase was common among Ms Driasis' acquaintance (and congratulate her that such is not the case). Given that impression, and an earlier impression than Ms Driasis has a higher than average share of influence within her social circle, I did hope she might exercise that influence to make a positive change in the form of the elimination of a vile phrase.

I particularly dislike that phrasing because it was highly inspiring to the misguided works of Mr Archer, the Father of Postgay. People who have to construct whole movements every time Life contradicts Theory are usually overblown and frequently dangerous.

My analogy of choice for this one would come from My So-Called Life and the parents' meeting at the school after the gun goes off. Think of Patty before she introduces herself after the meeting complimenting Amber on being so forceful.

@nocute

How did I backpedal??
I simply clarified that simply because I've seen something happen many times doesn't mean it was done by people who are close to me. As I said, I've met and conversed probably thousands of people that I'm not close to. A lot of people have. I can see how my original post could be misunderstood but clarifying is not backpedalling FFS.

Also I think it's quite a jump to go from "I stand up for myself" to "I dominate others".

Am I thin skinned? On some topics and in some contexts, I totally am. What I found creepy about Hunter's post was his need to describe his fictional account of my body. Gross.

I have a question about the prostate thing: do fingernails help or hinder the entry? Are they like teeth during a blow-job and you have to be careful?

@ ven

Sorry, I clearly totally missed your meaning.

"an earlier impression than Ms Driasis has a higher than average share of influence within her social circle"

I wouldn't say this is true. I'm curious why you think so?

(To change the subject)

secretchord, I don't think fingernails like these would help.

@118 - Very nicely put. I hope for that too and I Visualize Whirled Peas.

Mr Hunter - When you have defeated attempts to change your orientation through outward force, you'll perhaps agree that it is not the sort of thing to be treated like a change of socks.

Ms Driasis - There was definitely a thread of about two or three months ago that gave me the impression your friends had a mild tendency to defer to you, but I could have misread it. I'll explain more later. Ms Cute might have ideas.

@ven

Hm! Perhaps I mis-wrote something then too.
I certainly agree with you about the issue of sexuality. I identify as straight even though I've had sexual experiences with women (and may again at some point in my life, who knows). I think that anyone except a rabid homophobe would 'choose' to be bi if they had the choice (or pan, I suppose... I don't know much about pansexuality). But behaviour is not orientation - there are lots of people who are gay or lesbian who have sexual experiences with members of the same sex just by default - that doesn't make them bi either.

To be clear, I sympathize with why you're bothered by the terminology. I think it's meant to be a humourous way to express attraction for someone who is a gender you typically don't prefer. I think the fact that people who aren't hetero use the expression suggests that they don't find the phrase to be threatening to the concept of innate sexual orientation. But for the record, I can officially say I won't use it myself on the chance that someone takes it that way. :)

Wow, you really don't understand female anatomy. My apologies to any women unfortunate enough to deal with you sexually.

There are many (medical, psychological, social) reasons a woman might forgo natural childbirth beyond a small pelvic outlet. Besides, your precious evo-psych says that waist-to-hip ratio is what's important, not pelvic outlet diameter. And it turns out mine is just fine. And no, it is not any of your business why I would not choose to have a natural childbirth.

I've never used the phrase "I'd go gay for her," and I don't converse with people who have, but I find the phrase inoffensive. I liken it to "I'd fuck him" to signal a humorous and over-the-top expression for liking someone a lot. That's a phrase I have used in regards to, say, Jeremy Irons or Jon Stewart. I've never met these gentlemen nor do I think it likely that I will. If I did, I'd probably chicken out on my imagined invitation. I consider it even more unlikely that they'd want to have sex with me. Going further out on a limb of unlikelihood, I make no predictions as to whether any of us would enjoy the encounter. I do like to think, however, that Stewart would get a good laugh out of the idea of his having groupies.

That's the point. It's just an expression. It's something to say. It's a way of conveying extreme admiration. It's: I like your work, think you're wonderful, and there's no one I'd like to fuck better (except possibly John Oliver).

@137

Hoooold the phone. You'd pick John Oliver over Jon Stewart? No I'm offended! ;)

Yes, "I'd go gay for him" is a joke. Yes, people use it and do not mean any harm. I've also met people who say "he jewed me down in price" and they also mean no harm. Likewise with blonde jokes, or jokes about some ethnicity.

I have myself often said "Man, I got gypped." I meant no harm. But when someone educated me about the history and meaning of the word "gypped", I didn't get up on my high horse and insist that it was fine for everyone to keep using the word.

For people who would like an end to the strict gender & sexuality policing in our society, it's important to understand how language works. "I didn't mean any harm" doesn't get you an automatic pass. On the other hand, if you enjoy the strict gender policing and want it to continue indefinitely, then you're on the right track.

Erica,

Do you really think that 'I'd go straight for him!' is equally offensive as 'What a gyp!'. I certainly don't.

I understand that some people are offended by the implication that sexuality is a choice in any way because so much of the LGBT rights movement is based on the premise that being gay/bi/etc isn't a choice. But in truth whether or not sexuality is a choice or innate truly isn't the point. If it was would it be okay to deny gay people the right to marry? Of course not, that's absurd. And for some people, orientation DOES feel more fluid - I don't think their experiences need to be silenced for the sake of posterity.

Like I said, I'm all for being sensitive and I won't use the phrase if it might offend people. But I'd feel pretty silly telling a lesbian at work that she shouldn't say 'I'd go straight for him' when she's obviously joking about the absurdity that should could ever be straight and is in fact trying to express admiration for a guy.

Also, the idea that Jewish people are stingy or Romani peoples are trying to swindle/cheat are inherently racist and offensive. The idea that sexual orientation is a choice is only offensive in the context of it's use in supporting homophobia.

But it isn't inherently a 'bad' thing. IMHO.

138

British accent.

@140 "I'd go gay for him" is offensive where "I'd go straight" isn't, at least to my ears.

To me, it's not about whether sexuality is a choice; it's about whether one fling makes you gay, and whether being gay is distasteful. The reason the phrase says a lot about how hot someone is, is because he's SO hot a man would give up his straight privilege and become (ick) gay, just to fuck him. (The phrase makes much less sense from a straight woman, because everyone assumes we're half-bi anyway.)

That's my problem with the phrase. People want to call me humorless, I can live with that.

If one thinks about all that "going straight" would entail - and it is a LOT more than merely boinking someone of the opposite gender - it gets much murkier.

* It completely erases bisexuality, which is one reason why "going bi" for someone is fifty times less unpalatable (I'm not entirely sure whether I'd give it a pass or not).

* It trivializes an identity to which many people are still denied easy and unpunished access.

* It mocks the experiences and struggles of those rare people who have found love across the orientational barriers but whose orientations have not changed.

* Perhaps most importantly, nobody is more viciously anti-gay than someone newly identifying as straight, to the extent that the phrase suggests the speaker would become actively homophobic, give up hes same-sexer friends, vote against equality, etc.

* With regard to Ms Driasis' point about potentially silencing those with fluid orientation, it's a bit like religion. It is generally considered wisdom to convert on one's own impetus and not "for" someone else. Besides, how long is the term for which one is contracting? Going straight is a lifelong commitment. And a lot of people do "go straight" "for" what they hope will prove a sufficient inducement. It generally doesn't lead one down the Golden Road. But my inherent response to someone contemplating "going straight" tends to be to take it seriously and ask, "Would you really?" with elaborations if there's no backpedal.

I can understand wanting to express cross-orientational appreciation. But anyone who takes it that far ought to have to go through with it, though I can't entirely settle on whether a week or a month would be sufficient.

Now I grant that most people here have probably not had to beat back an attempt to force an unwanted orientation upon them. But we are not yet in a time and place where the matter provides freedom and equality of choice.

From the other side, there is the Windsor factor that may lend an air of romance to an impulse to give up all that heterosexual privilege, although that's still inherently problematic. But I shall not presume to judge that side, although my natural response to hearing an offer to "go gay" would be to suggest that the speaker might well be unable to pass the qualifying examination.

I can sympathize with Ms Driasis' reluctance in the case she mentions. One's place is often far from clear in such cases.

But it's lazy and inaccurate phrasing with problematic implications. Just because it's commonly used doesn't mean one can't find an equally (or vastly more) humourous way to express extreme admiration without suggesting more than one would really be willing to do.

@ Erica/Ven

See, this is interesting.
So if a guy were to say "I'd go gay for him" Erica would take it to mean "I'd fuck him - which would then make me gay because the minute I have sex with a man I can't be straight anymore". Ven only addressed "going straight" but seemed to think that the speaker meant it quite literally.

(If I'm understanding it right)

In case you were wondering there is virtually no "ex gay"/"born again" culture where I am. I have never in my entire life met an 'ex gay' man and that kind of fundie influence is pretty much nonexistant here. In my workplace, for example, it doesn't matter how straight/macho/tough you are - you better be down with gay men. If you're not? Don't let the door hit you on the way back. We have only had a handful of homophobes (out of probably thousands of people over the years) and you can bet they shut up right quick when
1. their paycheck depends on it
2. none of the hot girls or straight dudes in the kitchen will back their play
In fact I've seen a lot of straight guys get over their mild homophobia (which I think is mainly a show anyway) and come to joke around and become good friends with the gay guys. Often to the point of back and forth joke-flirting.

Anyway, the thing is, when I hear "I'd go gay for him" or "I'd go straight for her", I always assumed people meant it as like an "I'd be straight for a night" kind of thing. Not "I'd give up my sexual orientation for the rest of my life". But obviously we all put our own gloss on such an ambigious (and illogical) statement.

I understand "I'd go gay for him" and its variants to mean that the object of speculation is soooo damn attractice that the speaker would even cross orientations to be able to have sex with him. I also understand it to be meant to be funny and not taken either literally or too seriously. While I don't think it represents the sin que non of wittiness, I also think it connotes a humorous attitude in a way that "I'd fuck him" does not (some folks would say of virtually anyone/anything "I'd hit that" and the point of "I'd go gay for him" is that the speaker wouldn't ordinarily want to have sex with a man, so this one is extraordinarily hot).

I get it, and I don't necessarily find it offensive. I also see and can appreciate the points that cockyballsup made in posts 133 and 134. I also don't like the trend I sometimes see toward political correctness.

But I am a big believer in being respectful towards members of one's community. And I also believe that it is always up to the person in the minority to set the boundaries around jokes which are aimed--even slightly or tangentially--at their minority group. Thus: I can't or won't instigate race jokes, but if a friend who is a member of a racial minority makes the joke, I will feel free to laugh (if I find it funny). I will make certain Jewish jokes, but not others, and if a non-Jew makes a joke that plays on a negative Jewish stereotype, I might well be a touch offended, or at least wonder what the hell is up with that person.

I know no ex-gays. I live in the liberal San Francisco Bay Area, and such creatures are utterly alien, as are people who publicly profess homophobia (which should more accurately be called "homobigotry") and for the record, I don't find "I'd go gay for him" to be indicative of homophobia, myself.

But.

I'm not the person who was subjected to forced orientation conversion sessions--by my parents. I'm not someone who has lived with what sounds like painful experiences regarding the desire to just be myself. I am, though, in a small and virtual way, a member of Mr. Venominon's Slog community, and as such, I can respect that he finds this phrasing objectionable and offensive, and refrain from using it and, if I hear it being used by friends (which I haven't, and knowing my friends' linguistic tendencies, doubt I ever would) request that they find an alternate way of expressing extreme admiration.

@146 Explaining the ramifications of particular words is not dictating what anyone may say.

But thank you for letting me know my personal opinions disgust you, Hunter. Likewise, I'm sure.

My ex husband wanted nothing to do with anything even thinking about his asshole. No finger, no toys, no way.

My current partner takes a peg like a pro. So much fun. So great to date a guy willing to explore and find out "different" things can feel good too!

Unless it's a cock, putting something in your bum doesn't make you gay. Srsly.

Middle aged white dude, "I don't give a rat's ass about political correctness"

Me, "http://yoisthisracist.com/post/230949110…"

@ Crinoline

Ahh fair enough. I'm not one for most Euro accents although I do kind of enjoy Russian/Eastern European ones, as well as ones from certain New York/adjacent States ones, pretty much any Carribean country, most South American countries, and a lot of African countries too.

But not so much the classically appealing ones (English, Irish, French, Australian, Southern... I actually hate Southern accents quite a bit)

Or is it the FACT that he's British more than the accent.
So longwinded sorry, I find preferences to be a really interesting thing and always wonder about them.

Hunter78: in my experience, if there's anything that "non-PC" language is NOT, generally speaking, it's daring or edgy or anything of that sort. Typically it's tired old crap that there's no particular need to hang onto anyway.

152 My--

Also John Oliver's sly sideways smile with the crooked tooth on the left.

New York accents appealing on men, not women.
Southern accents appealing on women, not men.

In the I'd-fuck-him category: Wyatt Cenac, Colbert, John Oliver, Kristin Schaal, Larry Wilmore.

In the unfuckable: Samantha Bee, Lewis Black, John Hodgman, Jason Jones, Aasif Mandri, Jessica Williams.

Edging towards the serious side for a moment-- Didn't you once say that you could tell if a guy was going to be good in bed by something about the way he moves or dances? I said that I couldn't. It's a toss up for me. I really have no idea what Jeremy Irons would be like no matter how much I liked him in Damage.

I would totally fuck John Hodgman and Aasif Mandvi. Check these out:
http://adweek.blogs.com/adfreak/images/2…

http://images.buddytv.com/articles/aasif…

157-- Give me David Tennant any day. Even Paul Dano. Definitely Peter O'Toole.

Peter O'Toole? Not even when he was 25 and sober.
Jeremy Irons . . . be still, my heart.

And if I wasn't prohibiting myself from a certain phrase, Kate Winslet is incredibly sexy.

As for young and cute, Henry Cavill.

Hmm . . . all these happen to have English or English-type accents, but that's merely coincidental.

Oh . . . and Alexander SkarsgardWhatshisname, you know, Eric Northman from Trueblood. He could drain me any day.

@ Crin

Interesting!

See, I like Wyatt quite a bit. Al has kind of a cute thing going on too. Colbert? Definitely bangable. I think Jessica Williams is a cutie and bonus points, she seems like she'd be fun in bed. And of course, Jon. Clips of young Jon? Uggh.

The rest of them, not so much. (For me, of course).

As to the prediction of being good in bed?

I think making out (kissing, groping, etc) is a pretty good hint as to how a guy is going to be in bed. I think what you're thinking of is I used to have a gay friend who was very promicious and claimed to be able to tell if a guy was well-endowed. I remember standing in a movie theatre with him and he suddenly turned sharply to look at a guy across the room and said "that guy has a big dick". Which I found pretty amusing at the time. I'm not what you'd call a size-queen so I've never really bothered cultivating the skill...

I think if anything I can maybe tell who'd be good for 'me' but that's more of a chemistry/preference match thing, nothing mystical.

Um... Jeremy Irons. Not so much, in my books, but I will always associate him with Lolita, so that's maybe why...

If anyone saw Requiem for a Dream... I had a huge crush on Harry in that movie. When my sister saw it she said "OMG he looks just like M's boyfriend!"

@Hunter

I'm sorry, is there a difference? :)

I have myself often said "Man, I got gypped." I meant no harm.

Good. If there's one thing I can't stand, it's antiziganism.
If you want to put out an excellent album about my people, fine. But no derogatory phrases.

Regarding the guy that cums with his finger in his butt. Why is it considered gay just because a guy likes anal stimulation? It's a pretty erogenous area for guys and girls.

Hi ANON,

I hopw you come back and check old comments. You may not be a lesbian. I had all kinds of confusion in college, ended up not really being into sleeping with girls but.... oh fuck, years and lifetimes later, really like t-gurls. Sort of the combo boy-girl situation, culturally contextualized as a girl is like the magic-button answer I didn't know I had. Point being, it's complicated and especially lesbicurious women in college should keep an open mind to all the options, of which there are more than ever.

ANON: As others said, get yourself some experience before you're 29 and panicked. Then: Never. Stop. Exploring. (safely)
BUMMED: How big is the (prof.) boarding community anyway? If word got out, this letter may just be the nail in your coffin (heh).

IMHO, though, someone is just trolling Shaun White again.

Where I live, in my social circle (I'm 24) straight women and men alike flatter each other by pretending to be gay for a split second.

Girls usually call each other sexy or hot to be supportive.
Guys put on a lisp and dry hump their friends in public, but it's all for laughs; as if they're affirming their heterosexuality by acting as over-the-top homo as they can imagine.

I do have one lady friend who actually makes me a bit tongue-tied, giddy, and at worse jealous. When I think of lezzing out, she comes to mind, but we'd have to be inebriated. No other girl has been so awesome that I'd want to kiss her, but I don't think this makes me gay, and neither should you.

That's something I'll admit only under the anonymity of the web, I'm sure a lot of straight guys feel the same for some of their male friends. But actually having FEELINGS for a person of the same gender is a LOT different than feigning gayness to strengthen your friendship.