Columns May 22, 2013 at 4:00 am

Closure

Comments

317
Just to follow up on @315. Feminists have the insightful phrase "a click moment", describing a moment of truth in which the truth of and the need for feminism (for society in general and for that woman in particular) becomes crystal clear.

The phrase can also apply to men, going the other way, in our complex and rapidly changing and often contradictory western world. (Seandr's wonderful metaphor of "millions of smaller pendulums" is particularly apt in this respect; one can easily visualize them in their millions of sizes and directions, sometimes smashing into each other.) There's an awful lot of guys out there who want equality, or thought they were feminists, who are smashed in the face with one of those pendulums going the other way. And, sadly, one of the first things those men notice when that happens is that feminism -- which had talked a big game about how it would be better for men, too, if they shed the patriarchy -- shows exactly that "reflexive hostility to the male perspective" and refuses to admit that no man or no men, anywhere, ever, can ever be disadvantaged, or that there may be systemic and harmful bias against men in a given situation.
318
Seandr @316: That's a very pithy and accurate statement.

I'd add only that a key word can be expectations. Both traditionalism and feminism offer very large though very different societally powerful movements aimed at validating a woman's choice. If she wishes to accept convention, then there is social support for that. If she wishes to defy convention, then there is social support for that. If a man decides not to be as economically or socially successful as he is supposed to be well, then, he's a lazy, irresponsible fuck. (Don't believe me? Look at some of the scathing commentary about men who are underemployed and enjoy video games with their friends, or who defer marriage because of their uncertain employment prospects.) There is a far narrower expectation of what a man is to be, and it is often contradictorily imposed. (One of the oddities of spousal support law, for example, is how a woman's reduced income is used to justify higher spousal support to her, but a man's reduced income is often dismissed as irrelevant to capacity to pay, and the standard of "imputed income" is imposed instead, because the court will essentially take the position that said payor should be earning more money, in what is far more a moral judgment than an accounting one.) A happy fact is that we don't really have a universal default expectation for women any more, thank god. Sad fact is, we still do for men, and even very modern progressives will flip back to it in their personal lives if they feel it is to their benefit to do so.
319
@seandr:
It's not all due to testosterone, as you seem to think.
Your post @316 seems to comprise a bit of biology, a bit of culture and a lot of self-fulfilling prophecy (after all, you intuitively knew all that already when you were young).

Maybe you should read this article (just skim the first few paragraphs, they are a bit boring).
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/magazi…

"A meta-analysis done by the psychologists Janet Hyde and Jennifer L. Petersen at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, incorporates more than 800 studies conducted between 1993 and 2007. It suggests that the very statistics evolutionary psychologists use to prove innate difference — like number of sexual partners or rates of masturbation — are heavily influenced by culture. All scientists really know is that the disparity in desire exists, at least after a relationship has lasted a while......
He shows women and men in new relationships reporting, on average, more or less equal lust for each other. But for women who’ve been with their partners between one and four years, a dive begins — and continues, leaving male desire far higher. (Within this plunge, there is a notable pattern: over time, women who don’t live with their partners retain their desire much more than women who do.)"
320
seeker
@317:
Nope. The men I had in mind were always quite macho, felt hard done by, and still didn't change anything.

Which brings me to @318:
If straight men feel that traditional role models are bad for them, they have to change. The suffragettes didn't have any support when they decided to behave non-traditionally. Yes, they suffered the consequences, but they also achieved so many things for women, as did the feminists of the 70s.
Man up!
321
"Man up!" I hope that you say that with at least some component of irony. If not, I must confess that it is one of the things that always annoys the living shit out of me: progressives talk about the urgent need to change gender roles and then the nanosecond that men raise an issue of their own they're told to "man up". If they have an emotional response they're told to stop blubbing. "Join us in this great new change, and be a better man!" "Okay, I just did and ..." "Whaddya want, a fucking cookie?"

And you're missing an essential point of my post when you say "if straight men feel that traditional role models are bad for them, they have to change". One of my points is that if they DO change the old roles are slammed back on them whether they like or not, and often by the same people who asked them to change: their spouses or the progressive elements who were supposed to be on their side. The stay at home dad who is the primary caregiver to his child while mom works twelve hour days? Fuck him, 'cuz mommy sought and got custody and nannies will look after the kid. The husband who married the dynamic professional woman and helped her rise in her career? Fuck him too, because she is now part time because earning as much as her husband was too stressful and the court has told him that he has to make up the nearly six-figure drop in her income, and somehow nobody gives a flying fuck about his time or stress. (I raise those because I saw them both happen in the past four months; the former decision by a dinosaur judge, the latter by a young feminist one.)

That sort of thing happens all the time, and when men say, "hey, if we are going to change society then it isn't fair if the change only flows one way" there's always some officious little asshole to say that, well, if they don't like it then they should just be MORE feminist and, well, someday, cookies and unicorns.
322
@316 seandr: Thank you wholeheartedly for your further explanation on the psyche of [a lot of] men, testosterone-wise. Men are basically wired to have sex at all times? Wow.

I however, do not seek out a man primarily as a provider or because he makes more money than I do. While I cringe at wage inequality---a woman's earning a paltry 77 cents to a man's dollar for doing the very same job---a man's / woman's own separate wages are his /hers alone. I believe that someone's inherited gains are also his or hers individually. I don't personally believe in marriage for myself--mainly because my one toxic marriage was a woefully preventable disaster from the start--but I certainly wouldn't stand in the way of any two others seeking a civil union and all rights therein.

I am also not a fan of pregnancy and what it entails during a full nine-month term, but am happy for other women bearing a certain maternal glow. More honestly, I'm glad it's them and not I going through the actual pregnancy (Monthly menstrual periods for me are miserable enough, but that's another story!).
323
@migrationist: I read that article first thing Sunday morning. Fascinating from a scientific perspective, and definitely had me re-evaluating my views on human sexuality. Hit all too close to home on a personal level and, perhaps unfortunately, also had me re-evaluating how I want to spend my remaining years on this planet.

I don't question the influence of culture on sexuality, although personally, my sexuality is and always has been irrepressible. If I were gay, all the homophobia in the world couldn't have saved my bed sheets.

But the article also highlights the well-established link between testosterone and sex drive, and if I read correctly, at least one variation of the libido pill showing promise is nothing more than testosterone with a coating of Viagra. Again, I'm skeptical of the blank slate, especially as applied to something so fundamental to our evolution as sex.

Oh, and here's a fun anecdote relating to the original letter. I was out dancing at Q last night, when a giant, drunk, aggressive, shirtless gay guy danced way way way up on me - as in chest sweat all over my shirt - and just stayed there despite my obvious lack of enthusiasm. Not wanting to come off as homophobic, or to walk away in submission, but really wanting him to get the fuck off me, I found myself paralyzed and speechless, just like a 14 year old girl. Finally, I patted him on the ass and said "I'm playing for a different team" (Seinfeld, bleh, wish I had said "You're barking up the wrong tree."), and after lingering for a few more measures, he finally went on his way.
324
@migrationist: If straight men feel that traditional role models are bad for them...

I'm certainly not saying that. Masculinity is who I am, and I long ago accepted that it was the game I would play, for better or worse.

All I'm asking is for feminists to stop conjuring up ridiculous views of me and my reality and actually listen to men. It'd also be great if they were to admit that masculinity has its charms. Finally, stop implying that "male privilege" has simply handed me all that I've worked so hard for.

"Man up?"

Oh really? How about this - if you* want economic empowerment, rather than getting a degree in Women's Studies so you can take a low paying job at a non-profit, a job you'll eventually quit to focus on raising your kids while hubby brings home the bread, how about grinding your way through a STEM degree and taking a stressful but high-paying job at a tech company like so many other women are now doing? I don't like Meg Whitman's politics, but when it comes to feminism, at least she walks the walk.

*By "you", I mean orthodox feminists.
325
Ms Driasis has unintentionally triggered me - I was punished regularly for all the things of which she likes to flaunt her enjoyment (save the last, of course - a legitimate advantage peculiar to cissexual women). I accept that it was unintentional, but I am withdrawing from the discussion after this post.

Mr Seeker - I am way over my Hetero Involvement Quota, but you are answering a general with a specific. I do not advocate putting all couples seeking therapy into a cookie cutter, but looking for possible effects of patriarchy early on (I suspect that if it's always found in significant degree 100% of the time that's problematic, but will not guess what the most effective percentage could be) seems worthwhile in most cases. But, horses for courses - if the wife in an opposite-sex couple is quite sure patriarchy has nothing to do with the couple's problems, then perhaps the straight male therapist could be the best choice for that particular couple. As for Dr Sean's example that you lauded so highly, it just looked to me as if their SMT got Mrs Sean to cave, which is not what I'd call a win-win, however it would appear to the patriarchy.

You and Dr Sean have much of my sympathy for being in such unpleasant marriages (and for Miss Sean as well having gone over to the forces of darkness). Choose more wisely next time.

I shall now spend the rest of the evening involuntarily reliving extremely unpleasant memories. I'm not sure when I'll be able to return. Dormez bien, all.
326
@324 ... Or get one of those much higher paying blue collar jobs. you know, the ones that are almost entirely male and women won't join but result in men being killed at a rate about 20 higher than women.
327
Venom @ 325: the problem with taking a feminist model to look for patriarchy is the same as taking a witchfinder to examine female nonconformism. the answer is predtermined and the solution unfair but satisfying to the faith that prompted the search.
328
@seandr

"but dismissing Hunter's (admittedly not very well articulated) post as "pure, uncut trolling" sure does sound like feminism's reflexive hostility to the male perspective."

Actually, it's my reflexive response to him being a bag of shit, and long-time troll.

If I called your post trolling this point might hold, but I didn't, did I?
329
@Crinoline

Sorry.
330
@mydriasis: Yeah, sorry, it occurred to me the troll comment was coming from a different place given that you two hate each other. My comment below was meant to acknowledge that.

(Oh, that's right, you two have a history here, don't you, so, maybe I'm misapplying some of these ideas.)
331
@seeker: Patriarchy, witches, communists, terrorists, Satan, the guv'ment, Sauron, The Dark Side, Voldemort, The Homosexual Agenda, germs,...
332
seeker @326:
Funny that you should mention those high-paying blue collar jobs when I was about to mention pay-inequality.
Yes, women more often choose subjects that pay less than men do. And women are worse in negotiating their salary.
One reason, traditionally male blue collar jobs are better paid than traditionally female jobs is often explained by how much more dangerous and physically taxing these jobs are, which is true if you look at a miner and a beautician.
But if you compare two equally physically taxing jobs which involve lots of lifting and strain on the lower back, resulting in serious back problems, such as construction worker and nursing aide, the traditionally female job is paid less because society as large values nursing theoretically, but not monetarily.

PS: Yes, the "man up!" was ironic.
333
@seandr:
That your sexuality has always been irrepressible doesn't say anything about the influence of culture vs biology on it.

How testosterone works is still murky. Why do Western men have higher baseline testosterone than Amazon Indians?
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/c…

I personally find it quite interesting that winners don't have elevated testosterone, but men who self-report better work, do.
334
Just wanted to hop in and say I'm glad PUNT got out of that toxic relationship and into a non-toxic one. I'm sure the idea of revealing his bucket-list items is terrifying, and I hope he has the courage to act with Dan's advice soon - and that we get an update.

I know when i've been asked about fantasies, i've frozen up for fear that *anything* i say would detonate the relationship. So i've got a bit of work to do to break that ice myself. Good luck PUNT. I'm rooting for you.
335
@316 / @322 seandr: No further comments?
336
@migrationist: That your sexuality has always been irrepressible doesn't say anything about the influence of culture vs biology on it.

It says culture be damned, my sexuality will have out.

Why do Western men have higher baseline testosterone than Amazon Indians?

Genetics? Diet?

I personally find it quite interesting that winners don't have elevated testosterone, but men who self-report better work, do.

It's well established that rises in testosterone levels after competition are mediated by subjective evaluation of performance. In other words, your testosterone levels rise only if you think you did well. Apparently, the Amazonians' self-evaluations are less influenced by the final score than are the self-evaluations of Westerners. Or, the result may reflect the idiosyncrasies of the particular soccer match in this study. The fact that they only studied one match is a design flaw (N=1, 0 degrees of freedom, no basis for statistical inferences beyond this particular game).
338
@seandr

No worries.

I agree with you in some aspects. I dislike the term "patriarchy" since it seems a little... much. Women may get the short end of the stick in a lot of ways, but I don't think there's some overarching evil conspiracy to keep women down or anything. And the expression "patriarchy" is evocative of that, I find. I also hate the feminist term "rape culture" for similar reasons.
339
307-WSN-- Thanks for getting back to us and clarifying. Would this be a fair rewrite of your letter?

-------

I'm a straight 21 year old female. I've been in therapy on and off since I was 11 for depression, family conflicts, and the deaths of 2 friends. It's impossible to say what's the cause and what's the effect, but even today I have a way of latching on to something that should be innocuous, pushing it to the back of my mind, then obsessing over it when it does come to full memory. I'll give it undue importance and let it affect me in unrelated instances.

The specific example that's bothering me has to do with an early sexual experience. When I was 14, I was doing some normal fumbling around make-out sessions with a boy my age. As is normal enough, nothing worked the way I imagined it should. He groped me a few times in a way that felt rough to me when he didn't have my express permission, and in one instance that was doubtlessly embarrassing for both of us, he began dry humping me before he came and had to run off to the bathroom to get cleaned up. Turned out that he had a rather scummy personality. I'm sure I was no model of perfection either at that age, but the point is that I keep flashing on that early experience even as I'm in a better relationship now and feeling comfortable with my sexuality. Again, it's hard to say what's cause and what's effect, but I tend to feel panicky in him-on-top sexual positions.

I've even wondered if contacting him (he moved away shortly after we broke up when we were still 14) after all this time to get an apology out of him would help.

In the past, therapy has been only nominally helpful. Any suggestions?

-----

If I've got the rewrite correct, here's how I would answer.

If therapy has helped even a little, try more therapy. It can be a different thing at different ages as you grow in your ability to understand and to process your experiences. It also can take some time to find a therapist you click with. Keep trying.

Also, keep in mind Jack Nicholson's famous words: Maybe this is as good as it gets. None of us had perfect early sexual experiences. We were all nervous and disappointed. If you hadn't had a nervous, scummy, cum-in-his-pants first boyfriend when you were 14, you'd likely have had none at all, and that brings with it its own set of problems. (I was a somewhat late bloomer and could go into more detail on that.) We're all walking around scarred in some ways, all of us thinking that what the other person got had to have been better. Instead of concentrating on how to attain perfect fulfillment, it makes more sense to make the best of the imperfect lot we've got.

So do what you can to embrace those early awkward upsetting fumblings. Try to look back on them with humor. Look at your 14 year old self and acknowledge that she didn't know much about recognizing scummy personalities back then, but from that experience you're better at it now. You weren't good at setting limits about how and when you liked your breasts to be touched then, but you've learned and are better about it now. Back then a guy could get away with groping you unpleasantly, but you know better now. Give yourself some credit for how far you've come, and carry on.
340
seander @331.

You LIE! I checked under my bed and there was nary a communist to be found. Off to check under the others now!
341
seeker@222,
>> In working with neurotics, the therapist must always express a desire for patients to continue, even if he or she feels that these patients have completed their work. Such patients will break off when their own desire to move on has become strong enough and determined enough. >>

From Bruce Fink's A Clinical Introduction to Lacanian Psychoanalysis: Theory and Technique (h/t Marginal Revolution blog)

...though somehow I doubt you're a fan of Lacanian psychoanalysis.
342
EricaP, I am not a fan of therapy as she is practiced on a day-to-day basis, on the basis of my personal and professional experience over twenty years, and I will express that and the theory issue metaphorically:
For the most part I have seen nothing but shitty, shitty drivers; where they learned to drive or the make of the car they prefer are irrelevant to the experience and wary distrust and earned distaste.
343
@198, now that sounds like my kind of Prince Charming!

As the mother of teenaged sons, I am deeply disturbed by the philosophy that espouses if you feel as if you have been violated, then you were in fact violated. I try to teach my kids about consent, but there is no way to avoid accusations of sexual abuse under this theory. My sons have to obtain explicit consent and become mind readers, while my fifteen year old daughter can passively go along and later decide whether she has been assaulted based on what kind of mood she is in. This parenting is going to be trickier than I thought . . .
344
@343 - Lulu, your concern is warranted. Linked upthread (and I don't expect you to go dig for it so here it is) is "A Mother, a Feminist, Aghast - Unsubstantiated accusations against my son by a former girlfriend landed him before a nightmarish college tribunal", WSJ, by Judith Grossman
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424…
345
329 mydriasis--

?
346
migrationists @332:
Genuine thanks for the clarification on the irony. I found it hard to tell simply because I have seen it so often used un-ironically by progressives and feminists where there is, far too often, a lot of Animal Farm’s Napoleon re Boxer about how they view men and labour: they want to preach and extol the brave new world but they also want men in the harness and pulling until they drop.

You ask me to compare “two equally physically taxing jobs which involve lots of lifting and strain on the lower back, resulting in serious back problems, such as construction worker and nursing aide, the traditionally female job is paid less because society as large values nursing theoretically, but not monetarily”, but I will have to disagree with you. Construction work is traditionally one of the deadliest jobs (indeed, always near the top), whereas nursing aide isn’t even on the list. Jobs where you might get killed or horribly, horribly maimed are traditionally almost exclusively male and the higher pay in those fields tends to reflect the numbers.
347
Closure is a trap, at least when it means talking to/confronting someone else. You almost never get what you want.

WSN, please find a way to put this behind you. You've buried it, but wheny ou pull it out nad look at it, I hope you can see that, while unpleasant and ugly, it is not the monstrous wrong a 14 year old you may have though it was. I am not a counselor, but there has to be a variety of ways you can move from "panicking when someone has sex on top of me" to not letting it interfere with your sex life and relegating his memory and your disgust to a "That stupid young fucker" muttered under your breath on the occasions when he randomly pops back into your consciousness. You don't have to be sexually scarred for life from this event.

Best of luck.
348
I am deeply disturbed by the philosophy that espouses if you feel as if you have been violated, then you were in fact violated.

Shurenka seems to me to be the only one who's actually said anything remotely like that on this thread, and even then it was in the context of consent definitely not having been given. "If WSN feels violated and didn't consent to what happened, then she was on some level assaulted." Note the "if" and the "on some level." No one's coming anywhere close to saying this is a prosecutable offense.

Also, consent and communication go both ways. No one in this day and age should be teaching only their sons to ask for consent, or only their daughters how to respond.
350
@316 SeanDr. - that so accurately reflects my experience it is scary. Thanks for validating my experience.
351
@Crinoline

Sorry, I mismatched a name to a post. My apology was meant for Ven.
352
@316 seandr: uh.......did I piss you off? I wasn't being sarcastic or trolling.
353
If that's the worst sexual experience she's had I truly envy her, although I'm sure combined with other experiences the feeling of being taken advantage of can be enhanced. If her boyfriend had enough restraint to not touch her boobs for two months, in my eyes, makes him a saint, not a sinner. I'm sure he didn't expect to respond to it by cumming in his pants, that was probably a shock to him too. I don't see why he should apologise at all, but if you can't bear to have a lover on top of you because of an experience like that I suggest you talk it out with a therapist and your current partner.

Cross dressing is really quite common and nothing to be ashamed of, it by no means makes you less of a man, my bloke has worn my lacy underwear before and I've never thought less of him for it. However it should be broached carefully, explaining where the love of feminine underwear/clothing comes from, it's not that strange to want to wear sexy lacy clothing. Just be careful not to randomly blurt out 'I want to fuck you whilst dressed like a chick' that is more likely to get a negative response.
Piss play is quite a jump though, as many couples won't even use the toilet in front of each other it could gain negative responses if she's uncomfortable with sharing bathroom visits. You could always bring up the subject with a "so the lads at work where talking about golden showers, apparently (insert name of friend here) and his wife are quite into that, what're your thoughts on it?" type comment, make it about someone else at first to see her reaction to that kind of fetish, remain neutral about the idea when first discussing as not to make her believe you think it's gross as Dan rightly said if you pretend to think its weird she'll probably agree so you don't think her weird.
354
WSN, if you're in the Seattle area I can highly recommend my downtown Redmond therapist. If there's a way to message me, please feel free and do so and I'll pass along her PT profile. If you show up ready to work, there's no end to what you can accomplish.
355
Teenage girl making out with teenage boy. Teenage boy gets massively turned on and orgasms. Teenage girl decides she's been violated. Oh, come ON!

Teenage girl has been reading entirely too many idiot newspaper columns -- "wanted to explore my sexuality," my ass; she was just plain horny. Welcome to reality, honey bunny. And get over yourself! I have my faults, but when I was a teenager and was kissing and making out with a guy, at least I wasn't all pissy about it when he got excited.
356
My girlfriend and I did the same thing when we were sixteen and, honestly, she received far more pleasure from it than I did. I didn't think anything of it at the time but now I realize how she violated me and broke my trust by engaging in the same act I did but enjoying it more. I guess I won't say I was raped but I do feel that I was cruelly violated and now I need closure.
357
Holy crap. This is still going.

Look, WSN, if you read all these comments and your response was to post your un-edited letter (which contained no new information) thinking that people might change their minds, just shows how delusional you are about this.

Seriously. Talk to a professional. If, at 21, a fumbly teenaged make-out session is still causing you trauma, what's going to happen when something that's actually traumatic happens to you?
358
Dan sure nailed it- this chick better stay away from the message boards. In fact all the women here simply confirm what I have always believed and known.

Not only is RAPE not about sex, SEX is not even about SEX- to women. SEX is about POWER. Listen to this writer- she was grinding and making out with a guy. She could feel his hardness and reveled in her power to tantalize, deny, manipulate, and punish. Then, when he ejaculates in an embarrassing loss of control- WITHOUT HER PERMISSION!!!- it becomes an issue to obsess over for years.

Oh no! I was not able to pull the strings on another human being and make him jump through hoops and torture him before he got off. Whoa is me! I was not able to control my man! Oh No! I was raped. Yes, that is it. When I am making out with a man it is RAPE if he becomes excited without my permission. Got it and thanks for clarifying.

The girl is confusing being a girlfriend with being a wife. Just get married and you can play your little games all you want. Tantalize, deny, manipulate, and punish. Tantalize, deny, manipulate, and punish. Tantalize, deny, manipulate, and punish.

What an incredible emo bitch! How is she going to handle it if she is ACTUALLY assaulted, or her child dies, or anything else that is TRULY traumatic happens? Get help and while your at it get over it. Flame one!
359
Dan sure nailed it- this chick better stay away from the message boards. In fact all the women here simply confirm what I have always believed and known.

Not only is RAPE not about sex, SEX is not even about SEX- to women. SEX is about POWER. Listen to this writer- she was grinding and making out with a guy. She could feel his hardness and reveled in her power to tantalize, deny, manipulate, and punish. Then, when he ejaculates in an embarrassing loss of control- WITHOUT HER PERMISSION!!!- it becomes an issue to obsess over for years.

Oh no! I was not able to pull the strings on another human being and make him jump through hoops and torture him before he got off. Whoa is me! I was not able to control my man! Oh No! I was raped. Yes, that is it. When I am making out with a man it is RAPE if he becomes excited without my permission. Got it and thanks for clarifying.

The girl is confusing being a girlfriend with being a wife. Just get married and you can play your little games all you want. Tantalize, deny, manipulate, and punish. Tantalize, deny, manipulate, and punish. Tantalize, deny, manipulate, and punish.

What an incredible emo bitch! How is she going to handle it if she is ACTUALLY assaulted, or her child dies, or anything else that is TRULY traumatic happens? Get help and while your at it get over it. Flame on!
360
I wouldn't suggest bringing up hypotheticals to suss out a partner's willingness to satisfy a kink. I'm squicked-out on many levels by certain kinds of crossdressing and 'gender play', but for a man I love I would find a way to give him at least some of what he wants.
361
Would Have Said No: You are either completely nuts or lead a very boring life and you're trying to spice it up with made-up crises. Both incidents you described were near non-events. I can only imagine you would drop dead from shock if you left your little protected world and entered Homoland, where I live. In fact, please watch a gay porn or two and see how the other half lives...maybe you'll realize what happened to you was Disney-sex in comparison.

Or...maybe you are one of the greatest trolls ever, based on all the comments your question has unleashed; 360 comments and counting is pretty damn impressive!
362
WSN- everyone has a right to their feelings. Now, I am going to sound like a bitch: I was raped in college, I was unconscious, I had to go through lots of therapy and anger, etc. etc. When people make allegations of "possibly on purpose" about a boob grab and some teenage boy coming on his self, it is completely absurd to someone who had experienced the real thing.

Your perspective is the type of argument that makes cases like mine seem irrelevant in the US court system and people turn on victims of actual forced and non-consensual sex acts.
363
This is PUNT. I am not sure if anyone still looking at this, and I realize I kinda came in a distant second to the young lady whose letter came first, but here is my update:

I finally told her today about the stockings. It took all my courage, and as usual, she was amazing. She bought me stocking to wear tonight for our lovemaking.

And she is buying me black pantyhose to wear under my suit for a wedding we are going to later this week.

She is truly one in a million.

    Please wait...

    and remember to be decent to everyone
    all of the time.

    Comments are closed.

    Commenting on this item is available only to members of the site. You can sign in here or create an account here.


    Add a comment
    Preview

    By posting this comment, you are agreeing to our Terms of Use.