Columns Jun 4, 2014 at 4:00 am

Make the Call

Comments

102
Nocutename @70. Well said.
103
@101 Why throw shade my way, vennominon ? I'm all good with you coming to France and going to see tennis. I still would jump at the occasion of meeting you in person, though I wouldn't accompany you to an actual tennis event (too expensive), but even if you spoke only tennis the whole time we met, I wouldn't yawn.

It seems I have a bit of back reading to do, if you're still sullen about my remark on tennis. May/June are the months when kids show off their achievements to their proud parents, and mine have done so much this year I've been left with hoping there would be some evenings - or non-working days - without any sort of spectacle that they've somehow gotten themselves involved in.
104
@95 You can gladly try to kill me with your bare hand, but you will be on the losing side.

I wasn't trying to be mean, or troll bait, but explain that using the word, "healthy" is all relative.
105
Ms Sissou - It wasn't shade; I'm not at all sullen. I'm sure I'd find a good deal more to do in France than merely attend tennis, and ideally I'd stay for a week on both sides of the event. Actually, I was more interested in the differences between French and English media. It would tell me something, for instance, if you were unaware that Gael Monfils had been the last remaining French player in either singles draw when he lost to Andy Murray yesterday.

Your being safe from my presence in the same country was a too-heavily-veiled reference to Elizabeth Bennet thinking it safe to enter Derbyshire (where Mr Darcy resided) when traveling with her aunt and uncle. I think also that some people view me as such a menace here that I have caught something of a self-deprecating style, perhaps not wanting to sully the reputation of anyone with whom I have had friendly discourse by implying that anyone (perhaps with the exception of Ms Hopkins) would be pleased to see me. My mood when composing that post was reminiscent of the joke in Clue when Professor Plum asks Mrs Peacock, "What are you afraid of, a fate worse than death?" and she replies, "No, just death; isn't that enough?"

Sorry for inadvertently appearing cross. I hope your children are not exhausting you too much.
106
I did some back reading. I missed a lot of fun on my nightstand bill game proposition.

Actually, the bet I proposed was a 10 euros bill, which is the amount of money that would get an average-sized adult through half a meal in a cheap restaurant in France - so not a lot of money. Money is not the issue, being reminded at the nightstand that one should give a fuck about the partner's pleasure is.

After being told of the game, one partner did not agree to play, but when our romps gave him particular (and deserved) pride, he'd glowingly ask "didn't I win that bill right and proper ?".

As for the comments on it being so selfish from me to want orgasms everytime I have sex - you bet I do. Do I make a tantrum if I don't ? Hey, that's life, not getting what one wants. But I still make it abundantly clear to prospective partners that I want to get orgasms out of sex. Because you know what ? That's pretty forward thinking for the actual common male here, that females are able/deserve to enjoy sex TOO.

I've gone through orgasm-less sex for more than 20 years of my life, it appears that I can easily come through oral, and through vaginal if there has been oral before, and not only do I know that now, I also now that I'm just like 70% of the women out there. I happen not to be the frigid one French society made me believe I was, who couldn't in all fairness deprive her LTR "normal" partners from sex, even if she got nothing out of it for herself.

So, yes, I won't ever get knowingly again into a bed (or a LTR) with a man whose entire approach to sex, is that my vagina is a nicer place to ejaculate into than his fist.
107
years ago, in the days before caller ID or cell phones [1986/87?] i got a series of calls for a businessperson. phone number one digit off, and his office was a few miles from my home. i compiled a list of messages, called his office and said: here, you're missing clients. talk to them.
yeah. call the sex worker, relay the messages. be a mensch.
108
SPAM just needs to transfer her number to google voice. Set up some filtering. Problem solved.
109
@vennominon

All is forgiven. Actually, if you don't smoke (I got asthma and kids), I'd be down to hosting you if you come in France, since I live near Paris : so bad is my impression of you as a person.

As for coverage of tennis in French media, it's huge. I wake up every morning to the French international public radio, so I do know the names of tennis players, but I zone out as soon as I hear them, so I wouldn't know who won what.

Everytime I hear Gaël Monfils being mentioned, I'm reminded of the joke "Mr and Mrs Monfils have a son, how do they call him ?". The answer is "Thibaud". Because "Thibaud Monfils" is pronounced as "ti beau mon fils !", the first thing the proud mamas of past French Algeria would say when visiting their adult sons.

I'm more exhausted by some viruses than by my kids right now (they're at school, and it's my day off, I bet it's showing), but beeing a bit poorly is no picnic for a single parent. Parental tiredness awakens the hellions in kids. Mine are still nice though, so once my bug is killed, I won't have to repaint the house. Much.
110
Something I would draw attention to for people who don't read unregistered comments: SPAM wrote back in @64 and explained her rationale for even mentioning calling the police in her original letter (i.e., because calling the cops is what numerous people had already advised her to do). So she invoked this possibility when she wrote in to Dan explicitly as something she did NOT want to do (hence her need for his advice) . And also, it sounds like SPAM has gotten a response from the sex-worker in question herself by now and is on the way to resolving it somehow.

P.S.--personally though, if I moved to a new city and was not planning on moving back to my old one, I would change my phone number to match the area code I lived in any case, to avoid general confusion.
111
@70 - in defense of the death grip thing, there are two reasons why it seems like it is overcomeable (as it were). 1) The male body has a biological imperative to orgasm in a way the female body does not. Old sperm gotta go. Not owning a dick, I don't know what happens if you leave the thing alone for a few weeks/months, but I wouldn't be surprised if the guy's body picks up the slack and pushes him more toward hair trigger. I suppose wet dreams will kick in at some point, but then that's a hands free orgasm, right? 2) There is considerable evolutionary pressure against having a dick that won't orgasm in a vagina. I'm sure it's possible, but it's gotta be really rare at the purely physiological level. Even in paraplegics, it's so wired in brain wise that sometimes another patch of skin will become the new orgasm trigger site - normal skin, anywhere else, much less sensitive than the penis, but fully capable of causing orgasm. So it's probably not a sensitivity issue. Psychologically - definitely. And what can be trained can be untrained.

I know it would be great if everyone could just accept the way they work as the way they work. But I don't think it's a terrible thing to offer some chance of changing it to those whom it bothers, and I don't think it's bad advice to young guys to back off the choke hold a bit, if only because the cause of Peyronies is still mysterious. Now if you are talking older men who've been around a while, ok, what they've got is what they've got and that's totally fine - hopefully they've got the self-esteem/life experience to know how to work with it/around it. But I'm pretty sure Dan is talking to young guys with this problem who are just starting out with partnered sex, and there is plenty of reason to expect things will change for them. I also don't think the "practice with condoms on your own at home" advice is bad either, especially since it's such a safety issue.

What I'd like to see is a deemphasis on PIV/penetrative sex for guys. I think the performance pressure and the idea of manhood wrapped up in that is really damaging to them, to the quality of sex in general, and it's just not fair. Ditto for erections.

Also part of the reason why we tell women "that's just how your body works" is because we really don't know much about how women's bodies work. It's a bit of a black hole (ha!). I don't know how much we know about men's bodies, but it does get researched because there is money in it (livestock and human fertility), while there is little to no money thrown at research on female sexual function (and what is done is all secret pharma work, so not accessible).
112
Auntie Griz: The thread I was talking about is over on the blog page, and is now archived. It was called "Living Near Skinny People Makes Overweight People Unhappy" and I got very involved in the issue. You may want to spare yourself--it wasn't pretty.

All I can say is that based on the comments of several presumably skinny people there, Dan is damn right that living near them would make me extremely unhappy. Which was the point of the research and my point.

I know you've lost a lot of weight in the past 2 years and have gotten considerably healthier and I'm thrilled for you. But my comments, which were about a cultural norm and what the psychological effects of living outside that norm are, rained down a predictable amount of fat-shaming poorly disguised as concern trolling, and "advice" for how to lose weight. Then the name-calling started.
113
gnot, why don't you register? Your comments are interesting.
114
SPAM, there are really only two ways to deal with the problem:

1. Change your number. Yes, you will have to tell everyone you've ever met, and yes, there may be people who never find you again.

2. Start telling everyone who calls/texts that they have the wrong number, and give them the right one (since you have it). For a long time, my family regularly got calls for "Express Typing", a service we knew nothing about, but we told everyone it was the wrong number, and after a few years they stopped calling.
115
@76 and 80 and 86 (seandr - you didn't find the lambskin smelled kinda weird?)

Newest thinnest condom in the world, thinner than a human hair, 1/5 the thickness of the Kimonos, 1/4 the thickness of the Supras. A bit outside my sense of curiosity's price range, also being Japanese and polyurethane they're supposedly a little on the small side widthwise according to Amazon reviews, the measurements have them listed as wider than Magnums but the material doesn't stretch much.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IBRI…

Their older ones have a good rep too, twice as thick but still thinner than anything else I'm aware of.

116
Thanks lolorhone. I have a longer thank you and a final response myself now at 125, and I'm not going back.
117
@115 Ugh, forgot the link won't work. Google Sagami 001 Amazon. www.sagami001.com They've sold out in Japan, which is why the Amazon price is a bit steep. Apparently they'll retail out cheaper once they get the production up to match demand.
119
nocutename @116: You're very welcome. After a few volleys back and forth on the other thread, I realized ferret is either the most passive-aggressive troll or the least self-aware asshole I have ever encountered on this site. Either way, he's dead wrong and hopefully dead quiet from now on.
120
lolrhone: I couldn't resist going back for one more round. But for my sanity's sake I'm going to have to stop. BECAUSE WHEN I GET THIS UPSET, I WANT TO EAT CHOCOLATE! Maybe a whole lot of chocolate. And eat a gallon of ice cream. Kidding, ferret, kidding.
121
nocutename @120: Dear GOD, you've unloosed the Kraken within and now we ALL will suffer and die by your compulsive, ravenous, and estrogenically-protected hands! Oh, cruel fate! Oh, counted calorie! This could have been avoided! If only you weren't in denial! If only you were a doormat!
122
lolorhone: Do you remember the movie Airplane, in which the captain keeps saying he "picked the wrong week" to quit _____?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeI5ke0BE…

Well, I keep wondering, mon cher, if you're saying to yourself, "looks like I picked the wrong week to return to Slog"!

But I have to tell you that I'm so grateful you did.
123
nocutename @122: Thank you, mon cher. And I always welcome debate, even when it's contentious. But NOT when it gets personal and nasty like he swore it wasn't but really (and really obviously) was. That said, I'm glad to have been able to square off with him- hopefully, he'll think twice before he tries to shove his agenda/insecurity/ex-girlfriend drama? down everyone's throat while claiming no, not me, that's what everyone else is doing.

All that aside, I'm very happy to be back on Slog.
124
@119, Gee thanks for the compliments... Btw disingenuous is when a someone constantly uses fallacious arguments, Nice Ad Hominem insults.

Well I guess I am waiting for all those who can kill me with their bare hands after rigorous exercise plus some hormonal replacement therapy..
125
@123 yeah, I am really thinking twice.. Nice psychoanalysis... rofl.. Cualquiera que. Disfruta sus conversaciones con sus amigas/amigos. Ciao..
126
Oh hey there, ferret! I was just talking about you over at the other thread. You must have read my mind.
127
@120: You're welcome. BTW, disingenuous means "not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does." I was merely asking if your intellectual dishonesty ("What, me try to shame you? I never would do such a thing!") was an actual articulation of your intentions at direct cross purposes with your affect (clueless asshole) or a convenient distortion meant to evade taking ownership of a clearly unpopular position and argumentative style (passive-aggressive troll). You began your argument "guessing" that nocutename would be "terrified" at having to exercise at her current weight, and my insults were ad hominem? (Actually, now that I think about it, your initial attack doesn't even qualify as ad hominem because you have to have an irrelevant personal fact as the basis for your argument, not pure conjecture.)

For the record, I don't personally want to kill you with my bare hands after a 10K and hormone replacement therapy. I don't know you and I don't want to know you. Sound familiar?
128
@105, Mr Venn, a menace? Surely not/ you seem a Good hearted man to me. Enjoyed that reference to P@P. Isn't that the scene where Elizabeth comes across Darcy Rising out of the water/ Colin Firth in TV version in that scene- famous image.. I did read the book.. It was a 16 th birthday present from my late sister. But can't remember if the water scene was really in the book, or just put in the TV show.
129
@127 my last response to this...

First stop the ad hominem, you may not like me, but calling me unmitigated asshole besides clueless assholes may be ab-so-lutely fucking hilarious, but it takes away from the points that you are making...(However your post about my ex girlfriend hang ups was hilarious)

Second, I began my argument that if nocutename or any person who thinks they are healthy and 30 pounds overweight, as she stated. I stated they could do a 10k run, a backpacking trip in the Olympics, hell the Irongirl Triathlon, which tries to get all women involved in the very good triathlon. I didn't state in your Petito Principii way that she is terrified of exercise. I stated if she is healthy, that she would have no problem training for any of above in a short period of time, like two weeks.

If you want to be critical of me, at least be critical of what I actually wrote, not some duplicitous way in which you want to make me much worse in your own logical fallacy eyes...

My little joke about rigorous exercise and was a combo of your misconstruction of what I stated about nocutename and estrogen to lower her LDL cholesterol levels and upper her HDL cholesterol levels, besides SeanD @95 comment about what is important is that he may not run a 10k, but at least he can kill douches like me with his bare hands.

Obviously we have left a bad vibe between us, I apologize for my contribution to it, and maybe we will dump more vitriol on another comment section, but right now, there is only so much of this, I can go back and forth on. We will agree to disagree and leave it at that.
130
@129: ferret, this is from your post @114 on the other thread. The bolding is mine, but everything else is yours:

"Let me ask you, nocutename, can you run a 10k race? how about a 5k race? How about a 3 day backpacking trip in the Olympic Peninsula, with the 13 mile walk up the Enchanted Valley with a full pack plus 2 more days of 15 to 20 miles days? How about the Irongirl Triathlon? How about push ups? can you do pull ups?

If you are healthy, you can train or do those things on some pretty short notice, or a week or two of preparations.. I am guessing all those things terrify you.....

If you are 30lbs overweight, you have a problem. It isn't a big immediate problem as an someone who is obese or morbidly obese, but you have a weight problem that has to be address.


******************************************************************************************

So first of all, yes, you do suggest that I'm terrified. Secondly, check out your hectoring tone (can you run a 10k race? how about a 5k race? How about a 3 day backpacking trip in the Olympic Peninsula, with the 13 mile walk up the Enchanted Valley with a full pack plus 2 more days of 15 to 20 miles days? How about the Irongirl Triathlon? How about push ups? can you do pull ups?). How is this not bullying?

If someone cornered someone else and badgered them in this way what else would anyone call it?

How had I asked you to do that? My comment that I am healthy despite the insistence of builditallwithdiamonds, you, delta35 and others that you know better and I am not (despite your not knowing me)--was that an invitation for you to come at me like that?

You really can't see the bully in that post? I see you as backing me up against a metaphoric locker in the middle school hallway, poking your finger in my chest with every "how about."

Talk about delusional and self-denial. At least own your fucking bullying.
131
Ferret .. Haven't read the weight thread/ but good on you for returning and apologizing. Have noticed a little bit of gang warfare goes on in these comments/
It is difficult though, as a woman's body ages to loose weight. Not impossible, though once menopause (think we gotta get a new name for this. God,
No more pregnancy- why would a woman choose that time to pause men? )
Hits- all of a sudden weight just stays on. Been a bit of a shock for me/ after being a skinny woman most of my life..
132
Let me add, ferret, that fitness is not equal to health. So while someone may be healthy (the claim I made that you, no doctor and having never met me, dispute), s/he may not be ultra or even especially fit. And so fucking what?

And sorry, but despite your claims that anyone healthy should be able to participate in triathlons, or run 10ks, or take the backpacking trip you described, those aren't the definitions of health. Nor are they even true of all healthy and reasonably fit people.

I'm not going to take your troll bait and tell you which of those things I can and which I can't and which I have NO FUCKING INTEREST in doing.

I am going to say that I know lots of healthy people--you know, people defined as healthy by their doctors, by the American Medical Association, by the American Heart Association--who neither can nor particularly WANT to do all those things. Are you going to come along and yank their healthy status from them. And guess what? Some of them are thin! Some are even skinny! Some are even underweight! I also know people who are fit and couldn't necessarily do all those things because of a variety of genuine (read not fat-related) physical or health-related conditions.

I'm not a member of the fat acceptance groups you mentioned. Certainly overweight contributes to poor health. But being fit enough to do Iron Man does you no good at all if the next week you are diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. Health is more than fitness.

Straw man indeed.

133
@129: Nope. You don't get to insult someone and hurl vitriol and then haul out the "I was making a joke" or "we will have to agree to disagree" line.
You weren't disagreeing with me. You took it upon yourself to define my state of general health or unhealth.
We were having a general discussion and you started in with a personal attack. That was uncalled for and uncivil and complete and utter bullshit.
The very least you can do is accept responsibility for your role in it and not pull the agree to disagree stuff.
Or do you mean that we will have to agree that we disagree on whether or not I deserve to be treated with dignity?

134
@130 Hectoriing Tone?!?!? bullying?? Can you do a 10k run?

Here this is the quote from you that I originally responded to,,

""I keep wanting to point out my health (I am not diabetic, my cholesterol is quite low, my blood pressure normal, my heart rate normal, too. Although I could stand to lose about 30 pounds, I work out regularly and am fairly fit and pretty strong.), but I don't want to adopt the defensive posture, that would suggest and that's not what my point is. And yet when I keep reading about how unhealthy I am"...

My intent is not to bully, my intent is to challenge your statement that you are healthy at your current health and weight status. I still assuming that you can't do any of these activities and it terrifies you, given the responses that I have gotten...

Take it or leave it. If you think I am shaming you, being duplicitous, bullying, hectoring, then I failed because that is not my point. Being 30 pounds overweight, no matter the gender is not healthy. My main reason is that 30 pounds more in weight can cause serious injury to a person's joints, inhibits their need to exercise and makes them gain more weight.

In some ways it has nothing do with you. It has to do that I know nutritionists and personal trainers who help get people fit. Someone who is mildly to moderately overweight needs to be pro active now, before they gain more weight. It is important to be diligent than complacent. Much like I know one nutritionist who allowed his client to eat one Carl's Jr. hamburger a day, but only if she cut it up in four parts and just eat that during the day.. (she lost weight)

I understand weight is a very personal and touchy issue, but I was critical of your statement that you were healthy at your current health status. I am sorry if I came across as bullying, mean, hectoring, psychotic, rabid etc. It was not my intent.

I don't live in your metaphorical world of bullying, and no, I don't see myself pointing a finger at you. I have been bullied growing up, and it is more like a daily terror, besides getting assaulted while no authority figure is looking. Besides you are doing what I think one should do for my hypothetical bullying, you are fighting back. Kudos.

You and your friends can gladly keep the hatchet waving and proud, but I stated my case, and I will venture on to other threads, maybe even post on actual Savage Love subjects in the future, ciao...

135
Nocutename, if you're gonna call ferret on his lack of respectful words towards you/ then for consistency sake, maybe the knights in shining armour could also acknowledge that threatening to beat him up.. Also need to own they took it to far.
136
LavaGirl, if you're going to jump in to this, I ask that you please read the discussion that it was started in. EricaP nicely linked to it before but I will do it again.
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
137
@132 Fitness contributes to health. Diet is essential to health. Fitness has been shown to help mental health.

I realize that I am great bogey man in your eyes, If one of your friends stated they are 30 pounds underweight and they are healthy, I would disagree, and tell them, the same thing I told you, look at your lifestyle, see what changes he or she can do to make themselves healthier..

It depends what stage the pancreatic cancer is diagnose. Besides many victims of pancreatic cancer, like Patrick Swayze, did some high risk activities, like smoking and drinking, (pancreatitis is at times a pre cursor for pancreatic cancer) not professional triathletes . Others like Steve Jobs caught it in time, but he refused treatment until it metastasize..

Best of luck, I realize that I am adding gasoline to the fire by replying, but I hope this imbroglio can die down... ciao..
138
ferret: I was making those comments in the context of a greater discussion about how overweight people feel greater unhappiness in the company of only thin people and how when they are around other overweight people they feel greater happiness.

Somewhere in the midst of the discussions people started in with diet and weight loss advice for me, despite the fact that I hadn't asked for it and the fact that that wasn't the point either of my posts or the issue in general.

Finally, 110 comments in, I felt the need to defend my own health, even though I didn't want to do so because I didn't like the defensive posture. And then you, who had been part of the thread since comment #80, talking about how obesity was a medical issue that needed to be addressed, decided to attack me personally @114. And you still haven't backed down, but continue to attack.

I'm happy that you know nutritionists and trainers and the Carl's Jr. plan person. But that wasn't what the thread was about. If I had asked for help in losing weight or figuring out how to cut calories (you started by telling me to tell you everything I had eaten so you could show me where I went wrong), then that would be one thing.

But you called me delusional. You told me I was in denial. You equated extreme fitness (sorry, but Iron Man?) with general good health.

Every single thing you did reinforces the interpretation of the original data.
139
Ms Lava - I am not for all markets, which suits me quite well.
140
I was married to a guy who only came with the death grip, whether he or I applied it. He wasn't always that way, He fathered 2 kids with me after all. He told me that it was years of porn addiction and frantically beating up his dick 20 or more times a day (squeezing hitting, punching it) that desensitized his dick enough that years after the kids he was unable to come from oral/vaginal/anal stimulation alone and instead required FIRM manual stimulation to finish. I think its not always just a variance in the way men were made, but rather sometimes men do need to take responsibility for numbing themselves with this type of abuse. Men do need to vary their techniques when masturbating if they want to still get enjoyment out of other forms of stimulation. Just like if I over-use a strong vibration on my clitoris, I'll be less responsive to penetration for a few hours or even days. This also goes to all you women commenting about the relative merits of clitoral vs. vaginal orgasms. They're both fantastic!I have been lucky to enjoy both quite easily, and yes, you can train yourself to come on command in either fashion, or at least I did. I even learned from my first lesbian lover how to master female ejaculation using tantric techniques. Just like with men, however, we have to remember to switch it up frequently to avoid getting in a rut where we become nearly completely insensitive to any but one style of stimulation to get off.
141
Has anyone considered that the reason SPAM was thinking of calling the police was not to target the sex worker, but maybe as an impulse to punish the unwanted callers? Probably not a rational or effective way to punish them, but can you imagine if SPAM is someone (maybe with a personal trauma history, it's quite common) who doesn't sleep well anyways, and now is being woken at all hours with gratuitously explicit and / or threatening messages from strangers? Sounds like hell. I can imagine why SPAM might call the police, and the fact that their was hesitation / concern for the sex worker makes SPAM seem like a very kind person. Have a little empathy yourself, Dan.
142
At least nocutename, you didn't say" he started it". And I wasn't jumping in, I was joining in.. And I have read the re posted words on this thread.. And my point still stands.. It's inconsistent to ask ferret to "own" his bullying of you. And not expect the same from those threatening violence. Even if the latter are defending your position.. To me, such collusion, also constitutes bullying.
143
LavaGirl, you are free to do what you like, naturally. But it isn't "joining in" if you aren't sure of or aware of what you're joining. Which you would be if you read the comment thread. Those few re-posted words don't give a very complete picture.
As to any "violence" being threatened, I wouldn't take such threats seriously. As you are aware, living in a different hemisphere, many of us here aren't in any kind of geographic proximity and very few of us know each other in real life. I wouldn't know the real seandr, lolorhone, or ferret if I stumbled into them in the real world, nor would all of them know each other. I don't even know what city or indeed what state(s) any of them live in. The chances of a physical altercation are nonexistent.

People's tempers sometimes get high.

As for me, I was grateful for the assistance I was given.
144
Why did Dan feel the need to tell us he knew a sex worker only in a platonic way if he is so open minded?????
145
WHY does Dan feel the need to tell us he knew and loved a sex worker in "just" a platonic way if he is so open minded...?...
146
ANAL: What exactly is wrong with starting small? What part of the word "starting" do you fail to grasp, or find objectionable?

Honestly, in the time the two of you have been wrangling over this you could have bought yourself Small, Medium, and Large, had him try all of them on you, and have moved on to the real thing.

Sometimes saying "yes" to the counteroffer is the most efficient way to get what you want.
147
Thank you posting 140! I am struggling with why my husband prefers internet girls (on theCHIVE, or porn) to making love with me, a real life person. I had no idea that it could be the death grip stimulation due to years of masterbating? He comes from a very religious background which he broke away from when he was 16f (no sex b/f marriage, mo caffeine, etc.). For years I struggled with the issue and knew it wasn't me who had the problem, but reading this post just helped me to understand/realize that he may have the problem, and that intimacy may be a bigger issue to him than I had originally thought! Thank you so much! I see my issue in a new light.
148
LavaGirl @142: I threatened no one physically and nocutename didn't 'rally the troops' in an effort to gang up on poor, misunderstood ferret. All of us individually observed that he had attacked nocutename without provocation (and not just her argument- he made it immediately personal) and spent the rest of time swearing that he didn't, would never, and in fact YOU guys are the bullies etc., etc. My point is, there was no collusion- those of us who struck back at him had simply reached the same conclusion. The only bully here is ferret.
149
Nocutename and lolorhone, hi. How you going?
Have just read thru most of the posts on weight. Apologize, mrLolorhone,
You didn't threaten to hit Ferrett/ but you did call him names. And MsNocutename, gez, you were on a roll, and you did get very intense and a lot of what you said I agreed with. That Ferrett was a bit pushy, not to be denied.
But a lot of what he said I found interesting( and a bit scary. Didn't realize
That post menopausal women less protected from heart issues).
So. Onward and upward.
150
@149 I wouldn't believe ferret about anything health related. He's clearly just out to beat women over the head with whatever bull he digs up. Being overweight himself you think he'd be kinder, but I guess we just have to wait until he loses it and gains it back again before he shuts up. The dieting is clearly making him crazy. And if postmenopausal women are less protected from heart issues, well then, men are completely screwed and have been from the get go. One thing that is protective health-wise is to keep a bit of extra weight on, but of course ferret seems to have missed that particular study.

http://tinyurl.com/ntmbmr
151
@143 I didn't write that you threatened me, lolorhone. I was referring to @95 SeanD post about rough and tough non skinny person who can strangle me with their barehands. I made a joke about all the narratives criticizing me. I mentioned this before...

I never stated that posters are bullying me, (I am accused of being a bully) If I felt I am bullied, I just switch off my laptop, or head to another comments section.. I am far from being a victim.

I try not to make it personal. nocutename mentioned that she is healthy with good cholesterol and 30 pounds overweight. Most medical studies have shown that this is not the case. I was critical of the statement, which is something that Fat Acceptance movement, (yes, I know nocutename does not believe in it) state all the time. I am critical of these denials that are borderline delusions, like "I am overweight, but healthy", "I exercise and eat properly, but I don't lose weight", and "It is not my problem, it is the fascist fat shamer fault, (ie me, Mr. Evil Ferret)

I am based my opinion on what is out there in weight management and some scientific studies on the importance of maintaining one's weight close to the BMI average. I also stated the importance of exercise.

I actually glad that nocutename has her friends backing her up. My judgement for you, is that you work on your reading comprehension skills, and learn a little about logic...

My arguments are fallible, but you don't have to resort to fallacious arguments, and insults defeat what you want to get across. I failed in all of this, because my post that started all this was taken the wrong way, which I can understand, given weight, diet and overweight, especially for women, (ie womyn) is a very touchy subject.. ciao.

152
@129: First stop the ad hominem, you may not like me, but calling me unmitigated asshole besides clueless assholes may be ab-so-lutely fucking hilarious, but it takes away from the points that you are making...

Take some time and learn what an ad hominem argument actually is. Argumentum ad hominem is when someone says you're an asshole and therefore can't be right--basing their argument in your lack of charm, rather than engaging the topic.

No one here is arguing that you're wrong because you're a douchenozzle; your wrongness is separate. You are wrong, and you're an asshole. You could have been an asshole without being wrong; you could have been wrong without being an asshole; you could have been neither.

Sadly, none of those is the choice you made.
153
ferret @151: Just to wrap this up, I didn't say that you said that I threatened you. I was clarifying that for LavaGirl @142, who also thought nocutename had colluded with other commentators in an effort to gang up on you.
I get that you did not intend for your initial post to come across as a personal attack, but it does, spectacularly. I know you do not see it, and that's where we have to part ways because to me, it is obviously presumptuous and needlessly condescending and generally uncalled for.
My reading comprehension is excellent. You just seem to think because you're trying to "help" it somehow excuses or transmutes the actual tenor of your arguments (I'd like to imagine you telling an overweight person that you'd guess they're terrified of exercise to their face.) You may not have intended it, but you insulted my friend- badly. And while it was not my most mature hour, I just thought turnabout would be fair play (I still think it was fair, but it's also unproductive.)
And lastly, I'm not sure if the reference to "womyn" is an Intro to Feminism dig, but I am certain that this entire debate is not the result of oversensitivity on the part of the women involved. You seem genuinely stumped as to what in your first post/missive was so objectionable and insulting, and I can't explain it again so I'll just say your judgment is duly noted and ignored, as I'm sure applies to your reception of my judgments.
154
@115 - My husband and I tried Kimonos on the recommendation of a friend. They don't have much give and my husband (who's well endowed) said that they hurt to get off his flaccid-post-sex penis.

Guys, I have a question that I don't think quite rises to the level of write-in, but that I hope you'll be able to help me with:

I, too, am a straight, mid-30s married woman, and my husband and I would really, really like to have anal sex. Well, he would (it might rise to the level of being his kink), and I'd really like to because I'm happy if he's happy AND when we've done it and I've manually stimulated my clit during, I have absofuckinlutely mind blowing orgasms.

Thing is, as I said above, he's big - I have NOT taken bigger shits than his dick without considerable effort. And when we've done it before, there's been more than one time when we've finished with me bleeding or in discomfort for a few days. My philosophy: Onward and upward! More lube, perhaps get me off with your moth while stimulating my anise with his fingers and we'll keep going for it.
But he's really sensitive to the fact that he's hurt me (my response: "You didn't hurt me - we did something *together* and it hurt a bit.")
So, we'll be working up to anal, he'll be huge and rock hard, and then we'll try for insertion and he'll go limp because I've been hurt in the past.

Any tips and tricks, or will time and patience have to be the way to go?
155
Sorry for the typos - my phone and autocorrect have conspired against me.
156
Sissoucat, When I read your posts I wonder if there is a bigger cultural divide between France and the US than I had realized or if our two experiences just differ in a way that could be chalked up to ordinary coincidence.

For example, to return to your nightstand game, you say @106 that the expectation that a woman should get satisfaction out of sex is not common: that's pretty forward thinking for the actual common male here, that females are able/deserve to enjoy sex TOO.
I mean, I have been with my fair share of men who don't really seem to care about whether or not I get off, but for the most part, especially as I've gotten older and I think as porn has included more depictions of female orgasms (even though I think the vast majority of female orgasms in commercial porn are faked), my partners seem to be more invested in making me come. Indeed, it seems to be the expectation, which is why I think so many women do fake it; they know they aren't likely to get there--at least that time, or under those circumstances--and either the guy is just going to doggedly keep plugging away and the woman just wants it to be over so she can move on to the cuddling, or she genuinely cares about her partner's satisfaction, realizes it's not going to happen for her, knows he's holding back until she comes, and wants him to have a more fulfilling experience than the one he'd have if she said, "it's not going to happen for me, but go ahead and come for yourself." Most of us derive a lot of satisfaction--indeed, a successful sexual encounter depends on--the knowledge that we have satisfied our partner. And a woman who wants to give her partner that satisfaction might have a motivation to fake it. Which of course, leads that man to believe that he's better at satisfying his partners than he might actually be.

But barring total douchebags, I don't think most men don't care at all whether their partner orgasms or not. And some women are much more difficult to get off than many men.

As to your idea about condom use @98 (I would say the ability to tolerate condoms should logically be higher in older men, who have had scores of practice of condomed sex with women who were confident enough to put the foot down on uncondomed sex, than in younger men, who have mostly the experience of uncondomed jerking off and easily manipulated young women ("why condoms, since I love you ?"), I was speaking of men who came of age, as I did, in the era of condomless sex. I'm 51, and when I was a teenager and into my early 20s, condoms were considered something a young inexperienced boy would keep in his wallet, in a state of hopefulness (this was the mid-1970s-mid-1980s). Virtually all sexually active girls and women were on birth control pills, and in the pre-HIV era (or pre-HIV awareness, anyway, and that it could affect (and infect) straight people, too), the only STIs people were aware of could be cured with a dose of antibiotics. Herpes was the big scare then, but not such a big scare for a long time that people thought it worth using condoms.

So if you were a man who was a few years older than me, and you settled down into monogamy before the mid-late 1980s, you may have had no experience with condoms--or minimal experience, a long time ago. And if your long-term marriage or relationship only very recently ended, and you're just now re-entering the dating pool after a nearly 30 year absence (as are some of the 55-57-year-old men I'm meeting), you have not had the experience of the expectation that you will always use condoms. Put that together with some performance anxiety (possibly related to age, possibly related to the lack of comfortableness and ease that a long-term relationship brings), and just the physiology of age, and you have an erection that may well wilt at the condom.

I don't think that the whole "why condoms, since I love you?" thing would work on too many young women these days, especially with the awareness of STIs. And I can't imagine some guy saying that to a girl whom he's casually dating or hooking up with and the girl believing him. Unless the pair really is monogamous and fluid bonded and are using some other kind of contraception, in which case, the decision to not use condoms makes more sense.

I hope you're on the road to recovery and good health, and the destruction the kids left in their wake is minimal.
157
@mockingbird80, some thoughts:

Get a dildo the same size he is. Have fun with it, both vaginally and anally. Have him fuck you with it, talking about how he's shoving his big cock into you. Use lots of lube, so it's fun and not too difficult. Make lots of happy noises :-) And encourage him to substitute his real cock for the dildo whenever he's got the urge.

Pot or wine might help to reduce his anxiety about the possible ripping.

All that said, in my very humble opinion, guys with small cocks are better suited to ass play. It's like the upside to having a small cock. And you might encourage your husband to use his imagination to pretend it's your ass, while fucking your pussy from behind, at least some of the time.
158
@157: Good suggestions. I agree that having a small cock is preferable for anal and also for deep-throating oral.
But we're dealt the . . .um, hand we're dealt, and it's good to have options for making the best of what we're given.

I
159
@erica: Do you have any recommendations re: dildo material type? We've played around with butt plugs, and the more rubbery ones aren't the most comfortable. It seems like they "shed" lube or something after playing for awhile.

Re: pretend play: We could try that. I think for him it's at least slightly about domination (look at what she'll do for me!") - he also likes it when I choke a bit while giving him a BJ and likes to put his hand on my neck if we're in missionary or some variation thereof - but he likes to keep it at that/loses all arousal if I'm actually hurt (he also went totally limp once when he pulled my hair and I screamed, "Ow!" and refuses to this day to try that again).
This works for me b/c I might have slight sub tendencies but don't like pain (ha).
160
Thanks again, btw - I'm not terribly experienced (full stop) and I'm the first woman he's been with who's really explored this aspect of his sexuality with him.
161
I think it's funny as hell that ferret comes here, immediately alienates a number of regulars, takes potshots at the reading comprehension of some, and posted what he did @129, which would probably not earn a passing grade from a competent English teacher. Funny sad that is. Life is short. Rodney King comes to mind: "Couldn't we all just get along?" Comprehension of a message is advanced by following the rules of the language for sentence construction. In written communication since there is no nonverbal indication of concern or other benevolent intent, it's more likely that hostility or other negativity will be perceived, and more care in construction is needed if that is not the intended message.

I haven't yet seen any strong evidence that ferret's medical opinions are based on anything more than internet searches. My GP's stated guidance, supported by both the MD hanging on the wall and the apparent results of following his own advice, is that of the various possibilities of weight and activity, mildly overweight and active is associated with a better outcome than inactive at recommended BMI. Regular activity and some weight gain during times of plenty is the survival strategy we have evolved for; excess calories gained at negligible effort is not a scenario many members of our species have had available until recently.

Ferret seems to be entering a room, noticing after a bit it's somewhat full of annoyed people, and interpreting it as a reflection on the room, not on his part in the interaction.
162
Re:SPAM

My phone number is one digit off (easily mis-dialed) of the local Oncology office. I get one or two calls a week in error looking to ask their doctor a question or confirm an appointment. I always politely tell them they have the wrong number and give them the correct number. Some times it's not all about "me". Deal with it or better yet, have some fun with it. :)
163
@159 Something slick is really good for anal play. Since the circumference is more likely to be causing ripping than the length, I'd say go with plugs, and I'd recommend acrylic or glass or something else like that. "Rubbery" ones (inc. silicone) do definitely seem to go dry, and slick ones don't. It's sort of counter intuitive for some people because they're harder, but they are gentler in some ways.

You can use plugs as a warm-up activity to penis-in-anus - it will both relax your muscles so you're less likely to get hurt (leaving it in there for a while, and doing other activity like PIV with it in there), and reassure him (and if he's really into anal, be hot) - look at what she's already taking in there.
164
Re SPAM:

A friend used to have a phone number one digit off from a local pizza place that stayed open until very late. It was a huge pain. When they got calls at normal times, they told the caller they had a wrong number and gave out the right number. When they were awakened by a call to the pizza place, they just took the order.

I think it's odd that people suggested she call the police, though. No one suggested that re the pizza shop, of course.
166
@161 Whatever. The American Heart Association recommends losing 5-10 lbs could be a big help for blood pressure. Proper diet combine with Moderate to high aerobic exercise 5-6 times a week are recommended for good health..
167
@nocutename

Thanks for taking the time for such a long reply ! I feel quite honored.

I'm fortyish. I became sexually active after AIDS. So condoms have always been a given for me, since sex-ed in (French) junior-high.

The older men whom I've been involved with since my divorce, had reentered the dating pool way before than me, and one of them had never left it. They were at ease with condoms - they could become hard with a condom on, even if not as readily as when they were younger - and also at ease with HIV testing.

So were my very small example of men my age. Who were less interesting in bed.

I also know of a 25-years-old French male of today who's just like the French 25-years-olds I dated when I was that age : he claims about 10 sex-partners BUT he can't get to more than half mast with a condom on, he tries to weasel out with "why condoms since I love you" (his actual quote) even with one-night-stands. He had never done pussy-licking, anf found the idea mildly to strongly repulsive. He expects his female partners to refuse to do dick-licking, and he has a hard time believing that the giver can also enjoy it. He describes girlfriends his age as seldom agreeing to sex.

I have no reason to believe that this young guy is somehow less capable in bed than his many mates.

So I'll posit that, as a rule, for the average young French male of 2014, just as it was 20 years ago, sex is PiV, foreplay is limited to kissing if that, blowjobs are done by sluts eager to degrade themselves, and pussies are dick-only places : touching one with one's hand or licking one are alien concepts.

Moreso, women are expected to be reluctant to have sex, even when in a good relationship ("they brag to their girlfriends about the wonderful sex they have, but at the foot of the bed, they balk" : same source). This I take as proof that they don't enjoy it, and how could they, with no clitoridal stimulation whatsoever.

Only improvement over the last 20 years : the young French guy of 2014 appears unthreatened by talks of gays.
168
@sissoucat, I'm confused. You say "older men...could become hard with a condom on" while this 25-year-old "can't get to more than half mast with a condom on."

Is this a language/translation issue? Or are these guys putting on the condom before they are hard?
169
@161 experience

Interesting post.

My daily activity is : standing and walking around slowly for several hours, carrying around about 5 kg of bags for say one hour, pushing/pulling around in short intervals but at least once, a disobedient 20-to-50 kg child. Once a week I do some heavy gardening, to the limit of my strenght, for at least two hours.

Though I absolutely don't exercise, I consider my physical activity to be quite enough for a fortyish woman. Would you agree ?
170
@sissoucat (167):
First of all, I had to laugh at the description of your daily dose of pushing/pulling around in short intervals but at least once, a disobedient 20-to-50 kg child. Very reminiscent!

The 25-year-old sounds dreadful. I don't wonder he finds it difficult to entice a woman into bed. I certainly hope he's not representative of his whole generation. Do you think French culture is more anti-oral sex than American? I have a friend who was working in India for two years, and is now working in Dakar. He dates and has reported a huge cultural taboo against cunnilingus in both those countries/cultures. It's considered dirty, (and not in the good way). So when he first tries it, women are usually reluctant and don't understand why he'd want to do it. But they love it if he can persuade them that he wants to do it. They think he's a crazy American, but nevertheless they're quite pleased to be the recipients of his "craziness."

I still don't get the "why condoms since I love you" nonsense. "Love" doesn't protect against pregnancy, after all. Are all these women on hormonal birth control? Surely they're aware of STIs that can't be cured by a does of antibiotics? And anyway, how does he expect any woman, even one young and easily manipulated, to believe that he loves her when it's a one-night stand and they've just met?

His sexual skills may be no better or worse than his peer group on average (though for the sake of young French women, I hope they are significantly worse), but his seduction technique sounds stunningly bad and transparent. Do the women fall for it? If he says that he doesn't get much sex, maybe that's the reason why.

The wilting thing, if true and not just indicating a preference, only supports my point that different bodies react in different ways. Perhaps he genuinely can't stay hard with a condom. But at 25, he should be able to overcome that with persistence--and the insistence on his partners' part.
171
@Erica 168

Oh, sorry, my mistake : could stay hard. Actually, I've always observed some firmness loss when the condom is put on, but after one or two thrusts, all initial firmness came usually back.

172
@nocutename

I'll be more pessimistic and say that this youngster is absolutely representative of the guys 20-25 and maybe older.

As for the stupid line, it's not the worse I ever heard. I distinctly remember in my youth "let me in without a condom, promise I won't ejaculate" then me asking "you did ejaculate, didn't you" and him answering "you should put a towelette by the bed for me fom me to wipe 'it', I dislike washing with water just after sex". I also remember "let me get you pregnant, this way you'll be sure I'll always keep in touch with you, because of the child". Another one I dumped fast and hard.

As for anti-oral, yes I think in France PiV is still the norm, and oral the exception.

I learned what a blowjob was from peers in junior-high. And I was also told when it was done : when a woman reaaaaaally loved her man. As in dirty, not in a nice way, disgusting, no-one could ever like giving a blowjob, put something that pees in your mouth ? Bleargh. And most guys would not kiss you after you went down on them : this kind of yuck.

I adamantly refused to blow my first lovers : they did ask, but they weren't surprised by the answer. The asshole husband made the (at most three) blowjobs I ever gave him a matter of infinite pride : he was actually WORTH a blowjob.

I first heard about cunnilingus when looking for "blowjob" in the dictionnary, so, about the same time. I forgot about it since it never entered my peers' salacious vocabulary - for me it was another of those things that are not done except by sex-craved sick deviants, since even junior-highers didn't know about it. I thought it was imposed by the male on the female ; that it could be pleasurable for the female never crossed my mind.

No partner ever asked to do it to me pre-marriage. About 8 to 10 years inside the marriage, the husband told me he wanted to try it on me, because "someone had told him it would perhaps cure me of my frigidity". I agreed to test it once. He proceeded to stab me around the clit with his hardest tongue, which hurt like hell, so I stopped the experiment faster than you can say, and deduced that cunnilingus was not for me.

After some years, I divorced, I met someone else. I had my first orgasm by him nibbling on my toes as a preliminary (and my strongest orgasm so far : it paralysed me) so when the next thing he wanted to do was lick my pussy, and he argued that no partner of his had ever disliked it, I gave it an hesitant try. I was 35. Ever since I've never done without.

Before this time I met a sex-positive younger woman (late 20s), who seemed pretty savvy in every matter sexual. She told me she usually made a mess of the bed from pussy-licking, better use a towel, she said. I asked how often ? She said "once a month he indulges". I'm willing to bet they had a lot more PiV than just once a month.

I've since met a 40ish guy who did pussy-licking like a pro but was totally unused to receiving blowjobs. He had received two in his whole life before he met me.

All my 50+ consumate lovers did and appeared to enjoy both sorts of oral.
173
@ sissoucat: Thanks for the depressing clarification.

For the record, I think that the middle-school response to oral sex is still the same both here in the U.S. and also in 2014. It's to be expected: it's middle school.
174
Ms Sissou @167 - Thank you for the clarification at the end. After the homophobic pyrotechnics that interrupted last year's French Open final, I was afraid things were trending in the wrong direction. (Today it appears that everyone behaved, Sr Nadal won Numero Neuf, and now the carnival heads to England, where Mlle Mauresmo will be coaching Mr Murray. Sorry to keep talking tennis, but I'll conclude with an expression of pleasure that, after all the ill-treatment she received for being out before she became a top player, it's especially gratifying to see and hear that she's almost universally loved now.)

I'm sorry the rising generation in France seems so little full of promise, and wish you as many partners with the appropriate skills as you desire.
175
Here's one guy's condom experience, over a few decades. I don't believe it's anything psychological about the condom. It's the shift of focus, from the lovely next to me, to the mechanical problem of opening a durable package without even microscopically tearing the contents in a critical portion (the condom tip is usually exposed to potential damage during package opening since it's at center and what's next to it unrolls first), and then installing the condom, again without any damage such as by a fingernail, accompanied by the sensation of a 360 degree wringer slowly traveling down the penis from tip to root. It's not uncommon to go from full salute to bowed and back to full salute with the shifts of focus. The dynamic hasn't changed much over a few decades.

@169, 172 sissoucat: whether the physical activity you describe is enough depends on what your goal is. If you want peak health and longevity I think more regular workouts and more duration would be recommended. Anyone with a child is likely to be time-starved for such self-care so make their own call. I suggest you split up the 2 hour weekend heavy gardening into two sessions on separate days, if it's enough to get to breathing heavily for half an hour with your clothes on, but I'm an engineer, not an MD or exercise coach. You appear to be asking my opinion, but since I haven't met you I think I'll defer for now to those other 50+ guys who have met you and have demonstrated their enthusiastic appreciation of you.
176
152 FTW.

While seandr is perhaps one of the dumbest people on Slog, I'm not sure how nocutename is responsible for his comments.

It sounds like nocutename included reasonable physical fitness amongst other things in her list of what makes her healthy, before ferret went off the rails with his laundry list of specific physical activities that he's decided, based on no science, constitute the standard for who is and isn't healthy.

It's true that reasonable physical fitness is one of several things included on the list of indicators for good health. It's also true that improving one's physical fitness will usually improve their health.

However, it does not therefore follow that physical fitness is the ONLY measure of health, or that ferret's favorite backpacking trip somehow serves as the ultimate divider between those who are healthy and those who aren't. His list wasn't just badgering; it was irrelevant.

And ferret: before you conveniently decide that I must have a personal interest in downplaying the importance of exercise, you should know that I'm a reasonably fit person, I run 5K every couple days (though not competitively), and hikes like the one you describe are a regular part of my life.

Also, my upper body strength is such that I could probably stop seandr from strangling you with his bare hands, so you're gonna be fine.
177
@vennominon

I should be in bed but I can't resist telling you that indeed, homophobia is a battle being lost by the religious and the conservatives in France. They won't go quietly, but we're still pushing them off.

Thanks for the wishes. I equally wish you and nocutename everything you'd like, I don't remember if the two of you are single or happily something. Brain hurts !
178
@112 nocutename: Whoaaaaaaaaaaaa...gulp!....Okay. Thanks for sparing me from what really does sound like a nasty blog, now in the archives. I guess I was lucky to have missed that one. I doubt if I would have commented on the subject thread, though; I may have elected to "read only" if I had seen it, and especially if the conversation erupted into aggressive name-calling.

Please, everybody---although I am 40-45 lbs. lighter nowadays, and my hair color is slightly more auburn (but still not quite Thelma Dickinson-ish; I'm more of an auburn head than redhead) know that I'm not a foodie. What is working well diet-wise for me might not for others. I definitely do feel sorry, though, for anyone who is labeled fat these days. Weight prejudice really is an ugly thing. I have been there myself.
Okay---enough said. Griz is stopping right here.
179
@120 nocutename: Oh, no! Don't get me started about chocolate! Aiiiiggghh! At least I can still have dark chocolate in moderation.
Body...shutting ...down...must seek chocolate....help! (LOL)

How about red meat and red wine? GRRRRRR!
Oh, god and goddess--not AGAIN!
UB40 is now running amok through
my head:
"...red, red WIIIIINE.......stay close to MEEEEEEEEEEE....."
180
.......at least I'm not having Regan McNeal / Carrie White / Annie Wilkes/
"Fatal Attraction" style menstrual cycles anymore, thank goodness.......

Did I mention being able to laugh a lot more, lately?

Okay. Moving right along.....
181
@nocutename

On the subject of sex, women and Europe, check this article, and go to point 5 "Why Respect The Virtues Of Sexual Purity?"

Poster Hopeful claims : "Italians as all cultures do, prefer women who are cautious and circumspect with their sexuality, as a sign of the woman’s self-discipline, a natural caution toward males as a survival instinct which she will pass on to her offspring. "

Yeah, males are natural-born rapists, srsly.

"A female’s self-discipline in sexual matters is a hallmark of her personal self-respect and a sign she is able to envision her larger future as the wife of a dignified man."

Sure, a woman's entire future lies in becoming a male's spouse. Such forward ideas !

"Modern Italian women [...] try to live out their Catholic faith as best they can"

Surely the writer knows that Italy is a diverse country, where non-whites, non-catholics and above all non-believers abound ?

Of course, this gibberish is headed with "Here are some practical reasons why Italians value sexual responsibility, which have nothing to do with faith, religion, or patriarchy, but only the safety of innocent children."

Suuuure.

This Kercher murder really brings out the ugly towards women in the open, from both sides.

From the the idiotic "Our cute baby girl can't be a callous murderess, deny deny lie about the evidence" from the Knox camp to the frightening "Cute American woman murdered English girl only because she was sex-craved and unhinged, and what made her sex-craved and unhinged was childhood sexual abuse, look at those perverted parents of her they probably raped her as a baby, trust me I'm an ex-chapelain in the US army, I met my share of sex-crazed murderesses and they all had been victims of CSA, blah blah blah, bad girl Knox, I so obsess over her and her depraved sexuality, besides Meredith was so much cuter than Knox so there, you're pwned Knox !"

Women are not normal humans for these folks.
182
On 181 : what is it with those religious types and their obsession with the sexual mores of others, especially females convicted for a crime ? really ?
183
Sissoucat: Yes, that is dreadful rubbish, but I don't know that its attitude is limited to Europe, and I also don't know that it reflects the attitude of the "typical" European. It's a website dedicated to vilifying Amanda Knox and obsessed with Meredith Kercher, so not the best place to look for "representative" attitudes about female sexuality, although certainly a lot of the reason Knox has been seen as guilty in the Italian courts and popular opinion is because of her refusal to be secretive and ashamed of her sexual activity.

You could find plenty of American who share that opinion, if not necessarily about Amanda Knox's guilt or innocence, then about women who have sex. Reading this column might give someone a skewed picture of American attitudes about female sexuality. Do you really think there's one European attitude? Maybe there indeed is; I'm not trying to be combative. It just seems to me to be likely that there's a more nuanced response there, as there is here.
184
@176 "However, it does not therefore follow that physical fitness is the ONLY measure of health, or that ferret's favorite backpacking trip somehow serves as the ultimate divider between those who are healthy and those who aren't. His list wasn't just badgering; it was irrelevant."

Exercise is one part of health. Diet is even more essential to health. There is a similar talking point with overweight people, or very overweight people that they are healthy, with their vitals signs okay, like cholesterol levels, blood pressure, etc. I think an hour exercise test of moderate exercise is a good sign of how all vitals are working, combine with flexibility.

Enchanted Valley in the Olympics is not my favourite backpacking trip, I chose it, because it is mainly flat, and around 13 miles. I also mentioned the Irongirl aka the former Danskin Triathlon, which encourages women to participate. I am all setting goals or to train for a race, which helps cardio vascular and regulates diet.

Congrats on your 5k runs.. and I can call the PD and the coroner's office myself, after SeanDr hypothetically tries to strangle me...

186
Since M? Ferret refuses to stop even when compared to Mrs Norris in the other thread, perhaps a comparison to Mr Woodhouse and his agitations before the Westons' wedding will do the trick:

"What was unwholesome to him he regarded as unfit for anybody; and he had, therefore, earnestly tried to dissuade them from having any wedding-cake at all, and when that proved vain, as earnestly tried to prevent anybody's eating it."
187
Since you're not trying to get pregnant with the 26 year old, it's not really your problem. If you'd like to have a good relationship with him, quit mommying him (like worrying about his little problem and how it might affect his future). If and only if it is causing problems in your sex life should you discuss it with him. He's not a DIY project.
188
bs on that analogy dan - we're wired to come in a certain way based on our anatomy. If guys had s intercourse with only their balls it'd be the equivalent.
189
@172
As for anti-oral, yes I think in France PiV is still the norm, and oral the exception.

That's funny. In my country, blowjobs (fellatio) are commonly called "French".
190
@99 lolorhone: HOW did I miss your post?? Sorry! So great to hear from you again, too! Thanks for the blog archive update; nocutename elaborated even further on the subject thread and comments.

Good night, everybody and XO,
:)
griz

191
OK, on the topic of European sexual mores and sexual tastes (so to speak), I only have a very small sample of one French male and one Italian male in a distant past era of my sexual history (late 80's & early 90's respectively). Both were happy to give and receive oral. Perhaps that was because they were in bed with a sex-crazed American woman - hee hee.
194
@186 Haha! For once I, a huge Austen fan, do not think you're pushing and pulling a protesting Austen into the context of Savage Love comments, venom! Applause, and a nice basin of gruel for you.
195
@194: You literally made me spit gruel at my screen. Though I had to agree that Mr. Ven austened it out of the ballpark with that one.
196
@Nocute: Jesu. If the standard of health becomes the ability to run triathlons, I see a lot of people just giving up and ordering a dessert cart. And what will the people running triathlons now do? (And I see plenty of stout people hiking. Not spherical people, but someone carrying an extra 30 lbs or so is unexceptional on a trail.)

I must third the high-fives for Ven's apropos Austinism.
197
...is SPAM suggesting that Southern CT is Boston??
198
@196 If you are fat, delusional and in denial, a triathlon seemed to be scary things, only done at Ironman distances... The IronGirl Triathlon at Genovese Park aka the Danskin Triathlon is for womyn. It is an easy race to train for.. Even for angry fat fucks who seemed to whine about how abused they are, and any slight criticism is looked upon as fat shaming. It is just a fun even that those who are very overweight but proclaim they are very healthy, should do easily...

http://www.irongirl.com/Events/Seattle.h…

199
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p84az86…
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp9MT1di…

Dr. Lindsey Doe is Great! I totally have a squish on her!
200
SPAM, yeah, a lot of people are idiots, not to mention the profusion of area codes, especially "overlay" area codes can be confusing, but what's wrong with telling the one or two people a week who get your phone instead of the sex worker's that they've got the wrong number--or, more correctly, the wrong area code?

Dan: She considered calling the police but decided against it because she has nothing against sex work.
201
198: Yes, it's a wonder why these "angry fat fucks" who can't stop "whining" all the time keep characterizing your "slight criticisms" as being overtly hostile.

Perhaps someday you can employ the world's top code breakers and rocket scientists to crack this little mystery.
202
re @180: By saying that I'm laughing a lot more, I don't mean at anybody--just that it's such a blessed relief for me to not feel so fucking bloody & miserable (largely because of bad periods) so much of the time anymore.

Back to @112 nocutename: Again, whoa.....! My Leonine curiosity had suddenly gotten the better of me when EricaP (@118) posted the earlier, now archival slog article, 'Living Near Skinny People Makes Overweight People Unhappy". Despite your dire warnings of the thread getting ugly, I held my nose and jumped in against my better judgment, but still reading only. Yikes!
You, lolorhone, and seandr are right: @114's Ironman rants were trollingly asinine.

Okay....deep breath...everybody: I may now weigh considerably less than I did 2 years ago, but I would never shame anybody! Shit--I know what that's like! I was overweight in high school back in my day, and have since struggled with my body 's health and appearance for most of my life. Try having a broad shape on top like mine (like a linebacker for Green Bay) in a family full of petite, narrow-shouldered, small breasted women, including two older cheerleader sisters who NEVER had trouble getting dates on Friday and Saturday nights. For many years, I felt out of place in my family, like a clumsy St. Bernard among perky little dachshunds.
It wasn't until I finally broke free of my older sisters' manipulative, selfish clutches that I stopped comparing myself to others, and have since lived to be myself and be happy. My amazing naturopath had warned me a year and a half ago upon becoming a new patient of hers not to see her "just to lose weight". Yes, I was indeed 40-45 lbs, heavier then---but I felt that my losing SOME weight--even a little--in my pursuit of a healthier lifestyle couldn't hurt. Now I am currently at a more ideal weight for my body frame and muscle ratio (and my lovely niece, once a patient of my amazing ND, herself, reminds me that muscle weighs more than fat). But again---I am not a doctor, so I'm not about to offer any medical or dietary advice. We are all different shapes, sizes, and body mass indexes. My triglyceride level may not equal yours, etc., etc.
Like I mentioned earlier, what is working for me right now might not for someone else and vice versa. Instead, I am out to be, in part, like "Romy & Michelle"---this girl's ready to have fun after so many years of cruel repression and just work on improving me.
Thank you for allowing me to share this story and further confide in all of you.
203
By the way, did I mention having the fun coincidence of sharing the same birthday with actress Lisa Kudrow?
204
@auntie grizelda

I'm happy things are getting better for you. I also find Savage Love an amazing place for confiding, when I need it : I have access to kind but clueless people in real life, and confiding in clueless people doesn't really help. Stay strong and trust in yourself.
205
@204 sissoucat: Merci boucous, mon ami!

You're right about staying strong---this is indeed why I have and always will trust my gut.

XO,
griz

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