Juicy, thoughts are- do Not reconcile with this woman. Her jealousy around you rearing your child Well, with this child's mother- big, big red flag for me.
She maybe is on your mind because she sawed a hole into it so well,
Controlling you from the inside.
And all that tumultuous crap? So so boring over the years.
My suggestion, do a bit of therapy, see who/ what she is hooking you into.
Do not reconcile. Find a woman who cares that your child is well looked after by both his/ her parents.
That would be a person who is decent and knows what love is.

Lava - I prefer Greek phi to Vietnamese pho. Although they are both pretty cool.
I think I get you. I'm fairly non conformist. And I think that focusing on the gorgeous variety of individuality is less constraining, and more useful, than tallying differences between yin and yang (except with sex). Sometimes the energy smells really bad and you want to walk away, but mostly people have interesting individual quirks and skills and preferences. I still don't see where yin and yang matter outside of sex (or teaching your children about their bodies/hygiene/cultural norms).

Where in life do you think gender differences are important, that doesn't involve sex organs?

Hun -I've heard of a less invested partner, but I have always and probably will always take that to mean one cares significantly less than the other.
Yes, people both give effort to show care for each other in a balanced/reciprocal/turn-taking way when they are equally invested. Attempting a mutually happy relationship. I don't understand the difference you are trying to draw. When one cares significantly less than the other, it should be a red flag, is what I think Crinoline is saying.

Sorry junlucky. This phone just goes and changes words. Juicy is sorta nice, though.

Yes junlucky, manipulation is a sort of brainwashing. I had to have years away from Any contact with my ex, just to start to find my own centre again. And it took me ages and ages to get him out of my head. We were tog. 30 yrs and had kids, so different. Yet I do feel his manipulations of me kept me hooked in.
Wish this girl well and finish it. She sounds really unpleasant.

Junlucky: Stay far, far away from her. It's been made extraordinarily clear that things aren't going to work out with her. In a way, you're lucky--you made it out. Now, all you have to do is stay out.

Expert manipulators have a knack for making themselves stay in your thoughts. This is evidence that she's an expert manipulator, not evidence that you two were "meant" for each other.

Remember: You deserve to be treated better than that. You do. Anyone who says differently is not your friend, and not someone you should spend time with. Block her on whatever social media you use, for at least ten years.

For future reference, remember that using the phrase "If you loved me, you'd [do what I want instead of what you want]" is an immediate dumpworthy offense. Anyone who does it is to be DTMFA'd.

Try to imagine a circumstance where you say that, and where it's good for the other person to keep dating you. Can't, can you? The same is true when other people say it.

Sorry Philo. Getting names wrong this morning.
Yin and yang matter a whole lot outside of sex. That's the problem. We have become so turned the other way, that the masculine and feminine principles are being bent out of shape, rather than guided.
Intangibles, mysterious, Differences- yet we try to see the other in our image. I'm just understanding the qualities of difference more these days, as I reflect more on life( a fun activity as one gets older), where before I wanted men to be just women with a penis- or rather my blindness thought that's what they were, I now feel very different.

I thought Crinoline's point was that failure to take turns is an objective, reliable, and noticeable sign of one party just not caring that much--and there aren't many signs that meet all three criteria.

Lava - before I wanted men to be just women with a penis- or rather my blindness thought that's what they were, I now feel very different.
Yah that sounds kinda self centered. Men have a different type of experience growing up (except maybe trans men) and their own good/bad stereotypes and a different type of body than us. Individual men feel very differently about their experiences though and none have the same idea about "what men are". Just like us, some are eager to grow into wisdom and some fiend to reexperience their youth, some feel defined by their protective instincts and some by their independence, they all value different things too.

junlucky (Jean-Luc?)
Here is an ancient Chinese proverb I came up with two weeks ago that may be relevant for you:
“You may know desperation when masturbating to your ex. Yet relief will spread wings, saluting DTMFA’d bravery long ago.”

Philo; I don't know if my take has just been self centred- I think it was a take out from 70s Feminism. You know, Male/ female is just defined by society..
And that's not true. I also had no brothers and went to all girl schools, I had no day to day experience of males, except my father.
Of course each of us express our humanity in individual ways.

Lava @200
I’m with you, this is another thing that parenthood taught me. Philo- any kids?
There are so many things that kids do intuitively that are related to gender, regardless of how they are raised. That said, they're also very accommodating of others in terms of appearance and interests.

#220 CMD - My favorite Chinese proverb is ‘Man must sit in chair with mouth open for long time, before roast duck flies in.’
More apropos here is maybe ‘When someone shows you who they are, believe them.’
Since we’re off the original topic, hey NoCute, you ever start foam rolling?

jenlucky I agree with E #203 and #206 this is a bad idea.

This woman has flat out told you that as far as she's concerned, she's responsible for nothing. That means that any mistake, no matter how small, will be turned into an excuse for shitty behavior. And I'm willing to bet she'll do everything in her power to poison your relationship with your son and to drive away everyone you care about.

I don't care how hot she is, or how good the sex was, no one is worth that kind of sacrifice.

Because I need you, like the fish needs the sea, like a fire needs oxygen, like a flower needs a bee.
And if you really cared for me, you'd let me video you while you wee.

@226.Philo; ...... out your pee-pee..
RayRay. Hope you're feeling better.

Cat Bro @223
Good one, and it even came with a very enticing beginning one just had to follow...“…Man must sit in chair with mouth open…”
The show and tell is a very good advice indeed.

Cat Bro: I never did use the dreaded black band. Instead I went on a three week trip to Scotland, Montenegro, and Croatia. And killed my knee. But now it's better.

@junlucky: You had your fun, the future with her holds nothing but misery, move on. The fact that you're even considering the insanity of getting back together on her terms suggests you need to cut her off completely - no texts, no emails.

Also, no friendship with this one - she's the ex you don't talk to anymore.

@LavaGirl: I like the groove you're on.

Just covering my pain WoofCandy.
My baby girl, who is now 26yrs old, and my 5 yr old granddaughter- as well as my daughter's partner, have just moved out of the family compound
( fancy way of saying our large block, that has various dwellings on it).
Left now with various sons who come and go.
Thanks. Good to know my stoic presentation has fooled you.
Boo Hoo. Just kidding, sort of. It'll be hard without the little one around, though I'm sure I'll still get to grandkid sit.

I'm going largely to agree with Ms Phile @200 - gender differences are overplayed and far too easily generalized or even universalized. (Anyone bi wanting to go totally SS could hardly do better than listen to jubilant anti-feminists churning out gleeful analyses of tournament versus pair-bonding styles of reproduction; it could well put someone off spawning for good, especially if balanced by a few choice Mummy blogs.) There are less broad differences that go considerably deeper.

#230 NoCute - (In Eric Bogosian voice from The Warriors, "You see?!! You see what happens when you don't listen to me, in regards to exercise?"
Any extended vacation including lots of hiking should include
Medium Jumpstretch band (the green one)
The Stick (the small 14" long one)
And if you've worked up to it, a short PVC pipe for rolling. It's hollow, so you can stuff it with shirts or something when packing. Rolling is the next best thing to having a personal massage therapist.
And I checked, since we're a Power Couple, you're due for a LIke also.

Oh Venn. when you've reared five.. As in five male people, then we'll talk. I know difference, when I see it.

Lava,
@228 Exactly.
Otherwise...
I imagine you're white? Black people are not white people with dark skin. And although there may be differences in how black and white people grew up and the stereotypes they are subject to and their bodies/genetic makeup, going on about the differences. Especially when you can't name them (or answer my question), when you just repeat your feeling they are different...

What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

Thanks all, I really already knew all of this, but external validation helps. When I left it was pretty traumatic, but it was fundamentally about my child. Though completely unacceptable I could somehow almost accept the poisoning of my other relationships, but when I felt my relationship with my child eroding I didn't hesitate, I got out. That of course was another source for her to pile guilt on me, because of how I left... suddenly. But I was trapped in a corner and the only way out was fast and hard. My relationship with my daughter has fully recovered, in fact it has never been better, and even at her young age she articulated support for my leaving. I think the bad memories in some ways fade over time, and since I have always had peace with every ex, the fact I couldn't with this one was frustrating, the fact I still thought about her perplexing. Contact is cut, its clear that regardless of any of her good traits or mix is too volatile and destructive to us both. And yes the tumult is ultimately quite tiresome and boring. Some of the good things we shared I might not share again, but I did once and that is really something.

@junlucky: That's good. Just FWIW, it can be tempting to see peacemaking as something that's your responsibility, but it isn't. Not everyone wants peace, and if they don't want it, you can't make it for them.

There's nothing wrong with keeping the good memories, as long as you remember that a few good memories don't mean going back is a good idea.

Going forward, when someone decides that hurting you is a good way to get what they want, do not give them what they want. Training people to hurt you when they want something will never make them treat you well. Never.

Ms Lava - I'm not saying there's no difference, only that it's built up into Martians versus Venutians instead of one group on an A-Z scale that tends to cluster towards K-N and another that tends to cluster towards M-P (just illustrative first guesses, I'm not dying on this hill definitively; it's just for a rough idea) as well as universalized. There are quite enough minority Q-R and I-J people (or even U-V/E-F) to justify not overblowing the difference. Do you claim that your sample size is large enough on which to base pronouncements on all men (or women) everywhere ever?

If this were not going to be my last post of the day, I'd be interested in how much authority you would grant the maternal perspective in the matter of declaring on human nature and why, but alas (or hurrah for some) this is it for my week. I hope the tennis is not keeping you up at awful hours. (This year's draw was a sad one for me; Bencic-Pironkova in the first round was exceedingly unlucky, as that would have made an excellent fourth-round match.)

@junlucky: I find that unless our ex was a total monster all the time, we all tend to remember only or mostly or more vividly the good things about him/her and tend to kind of muffle the bad. When you catch yourself pining, try making a deliberate effort to think of some of the bad. Maybe you can enlist the aid of a friend who doesn't have a particularly high opinion of your ex to assist you in this.

I'm glad to hear that your relationship with your daughter is strong. That is the one that was important in your story.
Good luck!

@Philophile:
I think you're being too harsh on Lava. I think there are some seeminglyinnate differences between males and females that may actually be the result of very subtle social and cultural priming. It can feel like the differences are hard-wired, even if they actually aren't, since they manifest themselves so early. More importantly, I think I understand her when she says that she used to think of men (or want them to be) as women with a penis (" wanted men to be just women with a penis- or rather my blindness thought that's what they were").

I believe that it is natural to consider others to be not all that different from yourself (of course he should feel that way; what do you mean you don't believe it ought to go this way?; think of all the fights in which one person says "you should know what I'm angry about"). Add the feminism of the late 1960s and 1970s into the mix, and you've got a movement saying that there are no innate differences between men and women whatsoever, that everything is nurture, not nature and you're set to expect your opposite-sex partner to be just like you but with different genitalia.
Then you have kids and see what sure as hell appear to be gendered differences appear practically in infancy--definitely by toddlerhood. And you readjust your feelings, but only so far. As CMDwannabe points out, those of us who are parents tend to have those notions of sameness challenged by our young children's apparently inborn behavior. Or that's how I read LavaGirl. I think we are encouraging or discouraging our children to behave in ways that conform to gender expectations, even those of us who are trying our best and hardest to challenge them, but we're doing it on such a miniscule level that it's almost invisible to the naked eye. A great website for parents of young girls is http://www.amightygirl.com/

But back to the expectation that the only difference between our OS partner and ourselves is in the set of genitals: I think that deep down, we all of us think our way is the best way to feel, to think, to believe and it only makes sense that our partner should feel/think/believe the same way.

@Cat Bro: I was packing too light to bring things like foam rollers, but I'll start now, though taking it easy on my return, elevating the knee and occasionally icing it has helped tremendously. Did I mention I had a bad fall on my second day but had no choice but to keep going, climbing hills and stairs and steps cut into hills?
I promise to listen to you from now on (said meekly, head bowed in submission and respect).
And I Facebook "Liked" Body Architects, though it's a bit far for most of the people I know in California to get to the studio. Maybe you should advertise a special: get your self flagpole shimmying-ready!

@244: Cat Bro: Call it the "Bree Newsome Special."

Well, 'likes' are less, in this case, about drumming up new business, more being able to help a couple people who've expressed interest in what's done over there. Here from CA would be quite a commute.

The Stick (cleverly named, yeah) is a massage device that you can use on yourself, mainly for calves and quads, though you could have 'rolled' out your hip, depending on where the bruise was, or on someone else. This speeds up healing of soft tissue injuries (and no, I don't recommend ice, there's a good book on Chinese Trauma Medicine 'A Tooth from the Tiger's Mouth' that's a good accessible read.
Most of my clients end up getting one, so they and their SO can massage the shoulder/trapezius area, which you can't get at with the roller. Worth the $27, right there. They come in various lengths, get the 14" one, easy to pack and travel with.

NoCute - I think you're being too harsh on Lava... I think that deep down, we all of us think our way is the best way to feel, to think, to believe and it only makes sense that our partner should feel/think/believe the same way.
Perhaps you thought I was trying to make Lava feel bad. I wasn't. I do believe that being unable to accept other people's perspective, accepting that they have different experiences, feelings, and skills to bring to the table, is shooting-yourself-in-the-foot self centered. I do agree that everyone tends toward self centeredness, and greed, maybe even violence when angry, these things are natural, like arsenic.. that doesn't mean they are helpful or 'good'.

I know everyone makes mistakes. I don't think that Lava is evil or whatnot. But I'll call BS if I feel like it.

I accept that Lava feels like there is some mysterious difference between men and women. I wish that she would accept that I don't feel the same way.

Its ok Philo. Like with Venn, when you've reared a couple of kids from scratch, a female child and a male child
come back to me then and we can talk.

Philophile: I don't think you think LavaGirl is evil or that you were trying to make her feel bad. And like you, I don't put much stock in those "mysterious" differences. I also don't think in terms of yin and yang or "energies." I also think it's self-defeating to not accept other people's perspectives or to refuse to value or acknowledge their own lived experience.

I'm not a gender essentialist. But if we are looking at norms and majorities among cis straight people, there do seem to be some gender-based differences that are pretty common, and I think if you've ever had a child or children (especially different sexed children) and were striving to instill total equality and to subvert gender norms, you notice what seem to be innate differences which can lead to some more gender-essentialist thinking than we thought we held.

I just thought that her point about once having thought that men were just like women with penises and coming to appreciate that they're not was an interesting one.

@198: If I saw a Huntsman spider as big as a polar bear (!!!) I, MYSELF, would scream like a boy! Aiiiiggghhhhh!

Kind of like that name, 'huntsman spider.'
Sounds like it should wear a little green cap with a feather, talk like Errol Flynn in 'Robin Hood.'

"I think there are some seemingly innate differences between males and females that may actually be the result of very subtle social and cultural priming. "

That's not the essentialist view she tends to put forth, though.

Context and framing turns a nod of agreement into an eyeroll rather quickly.

Ven and Philo, maybe also Undie Randy
I was also fairly close to your ideas til becoming a parent. For good or bad, the common gender-type behaviors and interests are so deeply rooted for some reason or another. Those, along with different types of energy, are hard to shake and shouldn't be.
See it as another way of accepting your child/ren as who they are, even if that means they’re just like the vast majority of kids their age.
Be supportive, offer new fun ideas within reason, and at least attempt to follow by example.

@255: I'm not arguing about commonality, just overly and unnecessarily broad applications. Especially when used to "assign" traits.

I mean, you don't have to be trans to exhibit and feel a different "energy".

Lava - When you can carry on a conversation without requiring the fertility and family circumstances of those involved, get back to me.

NoCute - Have you ever cared for a group of children of two or more races? There are differences in black children and white children's behavior that run along stereotypical racial lines, even when cared for by the same person who attempts to treat them equally. I do not conclude that racial stereotypes define white people and black people. If you think my opinions are harsh, so be it, they work for me and aren't changing.

I most definitely think in terms of energy frequently, mostly as fuel or a resource. I don't believe in auras.

Oh Philo. How can you possible content there is no difference between males and females, except with sex. Go look at the playgrounds at your local primary school. Watch how the different sexes play, interact with each other.

. With such a success rate at helping people- one person so far this week,
Soon we might just be able to do away with the Middle man. Must have been a big weekend for Mr Savage.

Interestingly, if Phil actually believed what she's saying, she'd also believe trans people don't exist. Which is where TERFs come from, as far as I can tell.

Perceiving male and female energies as yin and yang have been accepted wisdom thru many cultures for many centuries. Over the last forty to fifty years, with tumultuous social change in western culture, we just throw out these perceptions? I'm not invalidated your attitudes Philo, I am challenging them though.
All I ask Philo, is look. Look at children at play. Before the culture wears them down to this homogenous expectation of how they should and shouldn't be.

Lava - Sex and reproduction cover a lot of areas; romantic relationships, pregnancy, raising children, puberty, medical care etc. These are the only places it's significant TO ME, I haven't found nearly universal differences in any other areas. I asked "where is gender important TO YOU that doesn't involve sex organs?"

I'm not sure why you would assume I haven't watched kids at play or elementary recess. I've done this thing you ask of me, and have further been a child at play at recess. And I still believe that kids are more individually different, than the boys are different from the girls- even if they are grouping as girls/boys (and trying desperately to fit in and find a place to belong). I think all of them should have the same basic standard of trying not to hurt each other and instead learn to care for themselves, communicate and work together and a little about how the world works ie elementary education. This looks a little different for boys and girls because of both different stereotypes & expectations to deal with and different bodies to take care of. That's how I've interpreted what I've seen.

@262 Interestingly, if Phil actually believed what she's saying...
Interestingly, you don't mind looking like a total asshole by regularly trolling me. And that talking shit about what you think I believe is more important to you than stating your own opinion. I don't appreciate the attention, though. So again, Fuck You.

Philo, I'm confused by your question. Where is gender important to me, that doesn't involve sexual organs..
For me, it's an inquiry. As in, I don't
Know, clearly.
My daughter's partner has
two boys( 5yr old and 7yr old), and one 2 yr old daughter. My granddaughter is 5.
Watching them interact, I see differences in how they conduct themselves, by their sex. I saw differences in how my own different sex children conducted themselves.
I call the difference mysterious, because it is hard to pinpoint what it is, especially in our modern cultural times, because both sexes are so heavily defined by our cultures. We no longer have to go catch/ find our food, etc etc.
In relationships/ especially sexual, I feel we all " play" a game of sameness, to accomodate the other. I know I have in relation to men. Some other part of myself, some area of my inner femaleness, I don't know if any man has ever really met. Only other women have emotionally satisfied that part, because we share similar life experiences ie we are females.
I talk only here of cis people, because my under standing of trans people is too limited. I assume the taking of artificial hormones changes Trans people's experiences, so they start to experience life as the other sex than what they were born as. I don't know enough about trans experience, I know one trans man, not intimately though.
Hence I'm just addressing cis difference, because I just have interactions with cis people.
Obviously, gender is on a continuum.. Extremes at both ends and a mingling in the middle.
I identified strongly with my father, then adolescence hit, menstruation and pregnancy/ motherhood. By my own actions I was dragged kicking and screaming down a traditional
Female path- motherhood.
Now, at the other end- periods over, no more pregnancy, not even sure what hormones I have pulsing thru my body( I have googled this, just got no clear picture), and my mind is going to looking at what it is to be female/ male. Just an inquiry, Philo. Interesting to me, hence I talk about it.
My Buddhist Teacher, a man in his 70s, a monk since he was five years old. Never married, never entered that area of life.. He is celibate. His masculine energy, is very strong. He spent most of his life In a monastery with other males, only being around women since coming to the West 20 years or so ago.
Just looking Philo.

Lava, don't sweat it. Trans people are born with the opposite sex's brain. Philo claims to believe the only difference is in the genitals, but also claims to believe that trans people exist. If she were the least bit sincere, she'd have to drop at least one of these points of dogma. There's no point in trying to explain why your position is more reasonable, because reason isn't what led Philo to her current feigned beliefs.

There's no point in arguing with someone who is doing nothing but trying to signal tribal affiliation, because the signals aren't sincere. If the party line changes, her "beliefs" will immediately change as well, and there's no point in explaining anything to her in the interim. If someone is pretending to be asleep, the problem isn't that they can't hear the alarm clock.

Lava - I like your observations. I can understand specifics more easily than the intangible differences thing :)
my mind is going to looking at what it is to be female/ male
That's different for everyone, though. Your monk friend's experience gave him a different idea of masculinity than a frat brother or a boy scout would get from limiting their exposure to women. And my ideas about gender are pretty completely different from yours. I don't believe in objective woman/man principles. I believe we have different bodies, and are treated differently, that's what has demanded my attention. I'll listen to other perspectives, but that's what works for me, I think it gets better results to approach people as individuals first rather than gendered. Maybe not when dating etc.

I'm mysteriously attracted to men. My feelings are often mysterious to me, and things change, I didn't like beets as a kid but now I do, so I just try to manage them the best I can. Anyway, I'm ok with our different perspectives... feelings vary wildly by individual I've found... but your perspective doesn't work for me and mine doesn't work for you and it doesn't mean that anyone is objectively wrong. Feelings are subjective, I don't think we're speaking of anything that can be proven objectively. I got bored trying to separate nature from nurture a long time ago, it's not something you can do on an individual basis and I'll leave it to the researchers to conduct studies on large groups of men and women and attempt to control for nurture if they want... I've thought more about what a person is... For example Daniel Dennett's essay "Where am I?" I found a summary of the beginning:

Dennett uses this fictional account of a series of brain and body surgeries to illustrate a theory of personal identity. The tale begins by describing a secret government mission for which it is necessary to replace Dennett's brain with an artificial, substitute brain. The substitute is connected via radio waves to his original brain, itself preserved in a vat. Thus, Dennett's body is connected to his brain, receives all signals for action from that brain, and sends all stimuli back to that brain. This separation raises the question, where is Dennett? Despite our common sense views that personal identity is intimately tied to the brain and that thoughts occur in the brain, he is unable to view himself as anywhere other than the location of his body. Thus, Dennett hypothesizes that he is not where his brain is, for this would mean that he cannot move from the vat, when in fact he seems to move about freely. Further, he reasons that he cannot be where his body is, for that would imply that were he to switch brains with another person, the person who thinks he is Dennett (though in another body) would not be Dennett at all. Instead, he posits that Dennett is wherever he thinks he is; that is, point-of-view matters.
http://www.cengage.com/philosophy/book_c…

The essay only gets more interesting from there.

Perhaps the undirected focus on gender differences means that you're horny. Get some?

@266 It's amazing how much you like shit talking people. If you decided to question my words instead of accuse me of weird shit every other week, you might learn something someday. Not holding my breath, apparently you like this more, Fuck Off with your BS.

Phil, what on Earth is there to learn from "questioning" you? Displays of tribal conformity aren't as informative--or as impressive--as you seem to think. It's a shame that you're so obviously used to getting applause for loudly pretending to believe things that aren't true.

@268 Calling people liars all the time just makes you look like an asshole.

Fuck it.
what on Earth is there to learn from "questioning" you?

"How can you reconcile your two beliefs of trans people existing and gender being based on sex organs?" would have netted a different response that may actually be useful if you're interested in the question instead of trying to shut me up. Your current technique of accusations of deception/insincerity will never get the same response (a more likely response to personal attacks would be defensiveness or pity or in extreme cases fear, instead of desire to communicate). Accusing others of insincerity is manipulative and continuing to post that BS to me is bullying. And my response to bullies is Fuck Off.

I do tend to believe that people are dumb more than they are genuinely mean or wishing others ill... but you seem to be an exception. Or you don't understand that accusing strangers of things like "used to getting applause for loudly pretending to believe things that aren't true" is rude/hurtful. Even without the histrionics (what on earth?) I'm not sure I could speak to you without bad feelings after the hateful messages you've sent my way. I'd generally rather not speak with you or about you (and your wishes otherwise are not objectively more important than mine). I have the same problem communicating with you that I did with Alison and don't usually feel like speaking to a brick wall like this... but maybe Lava is still reading and may find this entertaining...

Phil, given that you obviously don't care about being "hurtful," why do you expect that whining about it is going to win you anything? You said something stupid and offensive, you got called on it, and now you're crying "bullying" because you can't handle anything other than mindless applause for saying stupid things. It's hilarious that you say you're the one talking to a brick wall, but then you guys never did get past the Rove stage of desperately accusing other people of having your own shortcomings.

For the record, I am in no way interested in whatever bit of nonsense you use to avoid suffering cognitive dissonance when some of the beliefs you're faking conflict with each other.

And we both know you're lying when you say that asking would have netted a different response than lip-trembling accusations of "bullying." I'm familiar enough with you guys to know it's not worth bothering; when you feel strong, you try bullying, and when you don't, you whine.

@271 Telling people they must be lying just makes you look like an asshole. Fuck off.

LavaGirl @263, I have watched kids play. You can notice some sex differences but they aren't always there. It depends on the kids. Some girls like trucks and some boys like dolls. And it used to be that balls were considered "boys'" toys but you see girls and boys today play with them in equal measure.