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>> I made the mistake...of giving him the benefit of presuming his attitude was based on his own experience of being cheated on. Not only did he deny this, but he lashed out at me for even suggesting it. So fuck his supposed pain. He hasn't got any, only his victims do. >>
He wasn’t cheated on, he was raped and abused for years by an ex-partner. Why does someone not having been cheated on mean that they’re not in pain? And how can you look at his posts and not see his pain?
>> the perfectly fair, tit-for-tat arrangement Mrs. B and I came up with actually wasn't fair--it didn't address the fact that we had different needs when it comes to extra-marital affairs, something neither of us knew until experience taught us otherwise.>>
Yes, this. People draw up agreements, without knowing what they really want. Going beyond monogamy is just a first step: there’s a lot to be worked out after that.
It helps if everyone is self-aware and good at honestly admitting what they want (even as that changes over time), but it’s possible to get through these negotiations without a perfect foundation if you can assume good faith from your partner.
The question here is whether CUCKS’ wife screwed up but fundamentally wants to get right again (and whether CUCKS believes that), or whether CUCKS’ wife was unhappy and consciously or subconsciously set about sabotaging their marriage. I don’t think the letter gives us enough information about how she treated him before her summer away to be able to tell.
I pat it and think of Mr E.
>> My take is that CUCK wants Dan to side with him on shaming his hotwife and sort of bring her back into the shallows. It is a dicey game and made for real adults who can cope with changing situations, and communicate
Very true. But note that the “shallows” are shallow for CUCK, but can be deeply unpleasant for a woman cast in the “hotwife” role who finds no pleasure in casual sex.
"Manhood" has certainly fallen out of fashion since then, and far fewer people would admit to caring about it these days.
On the other hand, masculinity seems to have the same sexual pull among straight women (and gay men) that it's always had, at least as far as I can tell. And my marriage rests upon me playing the masculine role, although it's generally better if I don't point this out too often.
The scenario he described was pretty outrageous, and she was playing it very close to the wind.
Not ever having been in an open relationship, I'm sort of left with my mouth open at her behaviour and his seemingly cavalier response to it.
Late, I don't see negotiations for an open marriage has to be tit for tat, both parties have to be given room for their own expression and the conditions allow shifts in wants. It is a negotiation between two or more people.
If your desire for an open marriage is strong, and your wife doesn't want an open marriage you have two choices.
Push it, as it appears Erica's husband did, and see if the marriage can withstand it, or continue to go with your wife's no.
Koalas.
Ah yes, the white man's burden.
Ouch, I think I've been dissed.
“Am I misunderstanding, Philophile, or are you suggesting that cis women can become trans men? And are you agreeing with that suggestion, CMDwannabe?”
It seems to me that Philo was using “cis” as a “born.” I understood what she meant and didn’t want to go through all those annoying definitions that often confuse everyone in the process.
EricaP @ 311
Euda’s pain is certainly evident and genuine. I for one never doubted it. But I think his dealing with it is very unhealthy, and if discussion groups like this one are too triggering then one should avoid them in the first place.
The negative vibe he created took a toll on all of us and should not be excused nor tolerated. I think it’s good for him to know this, should help him set healthy boundaries for himself and others.
Those triggered by children should not be teachers.
I’m afraid that apart from whatever happened to him he feels like he wasn’t heard at the time, possibly even now. Sadly enough Euda, and probably unintentionally, is recreating his trauma by getting frustrated and making sure that once again his voice won’t be heard in a helpful way.
I’d seek professional help. I would also recommend an open-minded, diverse,12-step group where people can talk freely about their sexual and all other experiences.
Just don’t tell “Dan and the experts.”
He rehashed an old form of what it is to be a man. Hopefully a lot of younger men growing up today realize a man like a woman, long as they are good human beings, they just be who they are.
Er, when did I say that he shouldn't feel his manhood is threatened? Or anything about how he should feel? I don't know why he feels emasculated, and I hope it's not because he thinks that men are entitled to fidelity while women are not. Or men are entitled to be satisfied by every aspect of the sexual agreement but women are not, or some other "being male has extra rights" bs bias.
So if there are inherent differences between men and women (and my personal view is that there are) then you can idealistically strong-arm them into a relationship mould where everything is even-steven, but it's going to take great effort to keep them that way long term.
I think that people usually try to keep even- steven equally happy, maintaining an acceptable-to-high level of happiness themselves, and it takes great effort in the long term as life circumstances fluctuate. Do you disagree?
who decides what is "respectful" and what is "harm"?
Yes, this is why people have different morals I assume. It's what I'm usually debating about on here.
And what if holding back for the sake of my partner harms me, or vice versa--how far do we let that go?
I think it's higher priority to refrain from harming yourself as opposed to others... lots of people police your fairness toward others, but only you (and perhaps trusted friends and family somewhat) will ensure that you're caring enough about yourself. If you think that holding back will hurt you, try to work it out with your partner, or decide that you can't be acceptably happy and leave. If you need help, or something specific, in order to stay happy and married, it's good to ask for it instead of assuming it won't be given and just leaving. People can often learn and grow and change.. it just happens a little bit at a time. It's nice when people manage to communicate how they are changing to their partner, and negotiate accommodation for that growth, successfully. Or else you grow apart I guess.
Seandr [298] - I don't think doormat or bad lover are good looks on men or women. I don't consider this a gendered difference. (Although I get why one's sense of femininity or masculinity might be heavily influenced by sexual relationships in different ways. I think it's subjective, people value different things about their gender or sex life.)
CMD - I bet you pass without question more often than you think. You seem very detail oriented. And it's particularly easy to pass online :) I enjoyed gaming online as a guy before many women started MUDding.
EricaP - Yeah I thought cis gender was birth gender. And trans gender was changed gender. I'm a cis woman by your definition too, right now. I think you're saying that if I decided to transition, I couldn't refer to myself at this time as a cis woman after transitioning? What a weird extra dimension to the word.
... since Alison is back...
I think that choice is when your brain reaches a least energy state when imagining "the most likely to produce happiness" possibility, and it feels like peace and surety. Perhaps a minimum of anxiety. That's what it seems like to this layman.
Caitlyn Jenner has been a girl and woman all her life. She was mistakenly assigned male at birth and it’s taken a while for her to get around to correcting that mistake.
Alternatively:
Caitlyn Jenner has been a transgirl and transwoman all her life. She was mistakenly assigned male at birth and it’s taken a while for her to get around to correcting that mistake.
Both are valid phrasings. She was never a cis boy or a cis man. She was a girl or woman with a penis who was putting in effort to pass as male.
Does this help?
I can’t parse that last paragraph, but it sounds like it probably makes sense.
Ya gotta be tough in Australia! You GO, girl!
@314 Donny: Ever notice it's the small, cute, furry, quiet animals that prove to be the most dangerous? Duck---Easter's coming!
@327 vennominon (re: my comments @292 and @296): I hope that made for an amusing TPiR scenario for you. It did for me. I'm still smiling.
Why can't we simplify it all and go with something like: "Caitlyn Jenner was born as a man. At some point in life realized she's a woman and decided to live as such."
All those mistakes and transactions and corrections...
Also, whether intended or not the line "and it’s taken a while for her to get around to correcting that mistake," may imply to some that to be a true trans woman one has to go through all the procedures Ms Jenner could afford monetarily and safety wise.
Again, I doubt this is what you had in mind, but Lava keeps telling us that this thread is read by lots of young people around the world.
So there you go young people around the world.
I have an appointment next Monday morning with the financial adviser of a local firm close to where I live, hopefully who will have some reassuringly GOOD news after the disastrous series of events with my ex-adviser and tax / penalty issues. This week, appointments with a veteran's employment counselor and a small business adviser--provided the weather doesn't get too prohibitively nasty. Will find out more soon. Meanwhile, back to computer work and staying warm---batten down the hatches, and pray me and my beloved VW don't blow away!
That's true now, in our culture. Other cultures may lead to different results.
But in our culture, it's more respectful to take adults at their word and agree that everyone was wrong about that person's lifelong gender, than to argue that they are wrong about what they say they felt.
I don't get Alison's version of being a trans* person. i take it that a trans* person is born with an assigned body physically, then at some point feel
they are a different gender mentally. They start off cis gendered as babies, unless intersex.
this whole notion of what it is to be a man, fucks up a lot of males heads. Puts pressure on them to fake it, create some persona.
Cis women grow up being identified as female and comfortable being identified as female.
>> if I decided to transition, I couldn't refer to myself at this time as a cis woman after transitioning? What a weird extra dimension to the word.>>
If someone said they felt that they used to be male but now felt female and would transition, then we should respect their choice to say that they used to be male. Their call. (Your call, in that hypothetical you raised.) But usually it doesn't go that way. Usually (in our current culture) they say they were secretly female all along. So the default is to speak as if people were always their eventual gender.
@ Auntie Griz - good luck with the financials! I've got my head in the sand at the moment, somewhat overwhelmed with my shift in job and concomitant shift in housing, but maybe your example will stimulate me to yank it out and start doing something proactive.
@ DonnyK 299 - I suppose one advantage to a hand job, as opposed to a blowjob, is that you can theoretically carry on a conversation, in whichever accent you prefer ... The authenticity of my British accent might be compromised by the degree of concentration needed for the job at hand, however.
"They start off cis gendered as babies"
They start off indistinguishable from cis gendered babies. They don't have words to describe what they feel, so we don't know. Around 4 or 9 or 14 (these days, in our culture), they start saying that they are trans. If their parents won't tolerate that, then they hide their truth and pretend to be cis-gendered, until they get to a safer situation or else feel that their only choice is to transition or commit suicide.
Presumably those numbers will go down as people transition in their teens instead.
transfer = trans
Wouldn't you know it? I have just scheduled an appointment for next Monday--which I intend to keep---with a local financial adviser here in the town I live in to see about transferring my accounts up here close by--and hopefully to be able to shift into a more productive retirement fund situation without tax trouble or penalties if that's still possible. And then tonight I get an email from---you guessed it! The "new" financial adviser at my original longtime firm in the next county (replacing the previous guy who basically blew me off for 5 years, ill advising me to buy a condo outright in 2013 when I had twice the savings--good thing I DIDN'T!--then got mad as hell when I repeatedly had to go through different people when he wasn't available to take care of financial needs while looking for work.
New guy at soon-to-be old firm NOW emails, offering helpful advice I wish I could have been told like, three years ago?--and, a week after offering a useless suggestion to "take anything minimum wage--it's better than nothing"--that won't come close to covering rent, insurance and bills or putting anything back into retirement savings, visited my music website and suddenly loves my music. What a mind fuck, huh? I wonder if the newest (local) guy I spoke to called down there to check me and my financial situation out prior to our scheduled appointment for next week?
I'm still seeing this newest local financial adviser (I know my equally concerned brother would agree) next week, regardless. If local adviser offers anything better and with fewer fees / penalties / tax troubles, I'm transferring everything to my hometown.
How's that for a Griz Monday Update? I suspect that things are going to get interesting soon. My former financial adviser never even told me he was leaving the firm--I just got a new guy reassigned there. Days like these I wish my beloved parents were still alive and present to witness all this. Several other financial advisers left in mass exodus along with former adviser---it appears the firm down there has been going through some sort of housecleaning.
And now to some advanced techniques: http://www.nuvid.com/video/1020124/wanz0…
Erica @ 343
It is a good observation indeed.
One should also keep in mind the advancement of the idea that one doesn’t need to be a full time “either or.”
Toggling and “somewhere in between” are also ok nowadays.
I think the correct terms for those are “non-binary gender,” “bigender,” and “gender queer.”
She may have identified cross gender, yet her body behaved as a cis male.
Too late in the thread to revisit this contentious area. I'll always respect how a person presents themselves.
Late - which cheek are you keeping your tongue in these days??
Auntie Griz - eeek. I don't have enough money to need an advisor, however ...
You are right, there is lube involved, I only noticed it after posting. Yet most, if not all of the moves, can be executed without it. My favorites are the finger dances on and around the tip, and the play from behind while he is on his knees.
Let me know if you need more
Erica @311: I did not know that. All I knew was that when I first saw him going off on a LW whose girlfriend had violated boundaries of their recently opened relationship, I attempted to offer sympathy as he'd obviously been cheated on and was hurting, and he slammed it back in my face. So, no more attempts at sympathy from me. I do think he should work out these residual anger issues with a therapist, rather than taking them out on a bunch of strangers (and who knows what he's like with the real people in his life?).
Lava @328: Amen to that.
It is certainly not the case that someone born assigned female, who was always comfortable with herself as female, would choose to take testosterone and have her breasts removed simply to avoid catcalls and get a bigger paycheck. Though there are quite a few movies along those lines. And the assumption of male privilege for trans men is documented:
http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/05/male…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con…
You're the one with the target on women's backs. Piss off with your rape crap. It isn't rape to cheat on a partner, bud, it's cheating.
What an ego you have Mr E. A boring, pretension and very damaged ego.
Please get yourself some professional help.
We all have pain, we have all been hurt and in different ways abused by others. You not the only one.
So what, you just going to stay this person who repeats and sees his pain everywhere, or do what you can to heal the damage done to you? Your choice, your call. Your life that is being wasted.
You been cheated on, is that why you equate this consent violation as rape.
Gee E. Welcome to the bloody world. I never gave my consent for the capitalist pigs to be so greedy for money, that they continue to dig up coal and make the planet a disaster. Everywhere you look, consent has been violated.
And I think you talk excuses. Excuses to vent your rage, because you don't know how to process it. How to move past it. Not the issue of people here, E. Can't you see that? Work it thru in the appropriate way. Find people who can help you.
You have a right to see issues as you see issues, as I do. And yes it can sometimes get heated here, no doubt. And I've brought in some of that heat.
You abuse people who don't have the same perception as you. Call them names, like some five yr old.
Grow up.
Own your damage.
Do something about it.
I'll say it early, Happy Thanksgiving.
Perhaps all this stamping of feet is because you've stumbled upon a particularly irritating hypocrisy in some feminist line of thought. If that's the case, here's a hug. Feminism is only as good as its practitioners, and let's be honest, humanity is fraught with meanness and stupidity. So sure, a fella does encounter, perhaps more often than he'd wish, ideologically empowered and socially sanctioned hostility and selfishness and disregard for his perspective that sometimes leaves him feeling, depending on his tendency to externalize or internalize, angry or morose and alone with it, unless his wife's a really good sport, because most guys don't talk about this shit.
But a lot of folks around here are remarkably bright and open to influence, so I'd say it's on you to take the feedback and either better communicate your ideas or reevaluate them.
YOUR CONTINOUS ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR HAS BEEN REPORTED.
WORK ON YOUR ISSUES, COME BACK, AND PLAY BY THE RULES.
I URGE ALL OTHERS WHO FEEL THIS WAY TO REPORT YOU AS WELL
I'm a day early (and an extra dollar? wish wish), but sincerely wishing everyone a safe, sane, happy, healthy, warm, and prosperous Thanksgiving holiday and all the heartfelt best.
love,
Griz
No pitchfork. I hope it will help Euda come to terms with whatever happened to him and make him go through a healing process where he can acquire better tools to deal with his issues, whatever they may be.
I still sense the pain, but shouting invectives at strangers is not very helpful. And if rape, imagined or not, is so triggering than it's better for him to avoid environments where the issue may come up.
It would have been even better if he heard it from people he trusts.
Sean, was it necessary to hit feminism below the belt. I wouldn't mind if you'd thrown in some reasoning, some example.
Hit the nail- most guys don't talk about this shit- can't blame women for that one.
Seriously Sean, trying in any way to excuse that sort of onslaught, that behaviour and make it about women/ feminism, why? Everybody can be selfish and mean. A man who questions a woman's self reported rape, as E did about Fan, you don't see the monstrous meanness and cruelty here.
Not confronting men about abusing women fits right in with your life viewpoint.
I prefer to see people USE the approach they demand from mr E... rather than yell back and ignore the hypocrisy. True.. many on SL do NOT yell back..instead they shrug and attempt reasonable responses. But some of you do yell back...and use the mob mentality as a verification of your righteousness....where you could easily find yourself on the receiving end of a gang-up if this board were for a different forum. I don't think the audience should dictate your level of self-restraint.
censorship sucks. Those of you who reported Eud and got some of his posts deleted should learn a little self control. Whether someone ELSE can show that same self control is definitely not the point of the concept. If you don't like his posts... don't engage with him. I can tell you from my own experience.. that when i have engaged with mr E to find some clarity in something he has written...and his response has been less than inviting.. it has caused me ZERO stress.... I don't know him. He doesn't know me. This format can lend itself to misunderstandings that would likely not occur in real life. So be it. When i first started posting on SL... it was people like Eud who made me re-think my overall approach... because at first i thought it was impossible for people to misinterpret what i meant... but i quickly learned otherwise.... and that i should be more careful with my phrasing.
and no... none of the above is meant to convey agreement with mr E's opinions... I am just disheartened to see posts get deleted and a mob get formed. I dare say... some of the most over the top and aggressive female posters of the past few years would never receive the same treatment.
okay...going ricardo again... ;)
If you don't think comments should be deleted, complain to the moderators. The community can report until the cows come home but unless a moderator finds a comment to be in violation of their policy they will leave it up.
If you want a community with no mods or policies to violate at all, they're out there.
Other than that... move on to the next comment.
I find it funny that you suggest i find a board with no policies. I know you understood my point...though you chose to respond with linear logic instead.
No, I don't see your point. I see no difference between a community with no policies or moderation, and a community with policies that are unenforced because nobody reports violations to the moderators.
Communities are always defined by both exclusion and inclusion. For a trivial example, people who do not read or write english are excluded from this community. In addition, The Stranger has decided to exclude certain types of content from its fora. A person who wants to read or write an excluded type of content will need to go to a different forum (a japanese forum, for instance; or one dedicated to self-employment).
If people report content that is not in violation of policy, it'll stay up. The reporters will then either leave or learn to deal. You won't have to instruct them. It'll just happen.
If people post content that is in violation of policy, it'll be taken down. The posters will then either leave or learn to deal. No mob required.
Your problem with deleted comments is with The Stranger. Write to Dan.
If you think there's bullying and ganging-up happening that's detrimental to the free exchange on the forum, report it.
Also, if you're going to delete random posts, can you start with the one's where I was an ass? Thanks bunches.
Preemptively - Ha Ha I know, I know AOT K
I was just getting around to reporting Es comment about Fan and rape, a most dispicable few words. And hey presto, all gone.
Maybe Chairman, E might hear from this that a lot of people were deeply offended and some triggered by his abuse, and stop doing it.
And he started to sound quite mad and irrational. I don't think it helps him and it sure poisoned this space. And which aggressive women are you talking off? Since I've been here the few women who went right over the top were confronted on thread, and then they went away. If you meant me, report away.
E was told a lot of times his remarks were abusive and offensive, deeply offensive by a lot of people and he just didn't hear. Didn't go or change his vitriol.
And yet..
Those of you who reported Eud and got some of his posts deleted should learn a little self control.... If you don't like his posts... don't engage with him.
:)
I dare say... some of the most over the top and aggressive female posters of the past few years would never receive the same treatment.
Since you dare.. I challenge you to find an example of a female poster who has called a male poster a rape apologist shitstain or something of the like, once, without being shown the door. (Probably by women as well as men) I don't think that you've had that particular pleasure from E, but I think that most of the regular female posters have.
This issue isn't really grey to me. You can influence others by reason/persuasion, force/manipulation, or appealing to a social authority. The third exists because the second exists. To preserve agency from those who might force it.
Personally, I mostly saw people address force by appealing to reason, and some to mods, and I was impressed.
But I wanted to address the trans stuff more..
instead just a correction to clarify
At least trans men can presumably gain manhood rights, so there is a way for those with XX chromosomes to compete.
First, I'm a little fallen that the men didn't rise as one against that energy of woman hating and denying. wtf.
I do understand it. In capitalism, nuclear family, traditional.. there is a woman. The Mother/ Caregiver.
And having been a mother in this culture, one has to work hard to cover all the posts rearing kids. Now I look back and see gigantic holes in the mesh.
And then, my boys let me know where I failed.
I have wondered why trans* men weren't very vocal. Then I thought the chromosomes contain the energy. With XY Trans* identity, the blend of male/ female is there. I can understand the identity sometimes going either way.
Not sure what your point is here. Can you tease it out for me.
Philo - i am spacing on her name... but she comes back from time to time to attempt to throw Dan under the bus.... frequently calls other posts all kinds of names.... and is mentioned from time to time by other posters as an example of over the top anger. When i think of her name (since i am not going to go searching through old SLs.....) i will randomly throw it into whatever thread we are on.... (i might be thinking of msdriasis???)
Violations occur on this board nearly every week (in one form or another). Every few weeks, someone is told to fuck off...(in various ways)... and the posts stay up. Why? Because no one reported it. NOT because it is magically covered by some Stranger loophole. I myself will not be reporting content i don't like. You can do whatever works for you.
My daughter is pregnant with her new partner. She was sick for a couple of months, she's settled now.
I'll start the looking for baby things soon.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure you're not going to find that evidence, as I seem to know more Stranger lore. And the mods have always removed some abuse. Their system does seem sort of random. The last time I spoke to E, I was called a piece of shit liar, reported the abuse, and the mods left it up. I haven't reported abuse or wanted to post as much since. I suppose that's why this thread has been more interesting. I have never seen rowing@dawn or a vicious woman defended the way E is.
Lava - I'm a little fallen that the men didn't rise as one against that energy of woman hating and denying. wtf.
I think the men who do not address E's behavior but who do address the "bad response" on this thread have a strong loyalty to other men, instead of human respect. It's not care, it's self interest. And I was trying to rewrite my earlier disputed sentence to be more clear. Guess I failed. How's this:
At least trans men can presumably gain manhood rights, so there is a way for those born as women to compete.
EricaP - Usually (in our current culture) they say they were secretly female all along. So the default is to speak as if people were always their eventual gender.
This isn't true in my experience. Although mine is very limited. I think of transitioning very much like coming out as gay. There is a point where one has decided they can't be happy identifying with the default, so they start identifying as the other gender, or agender, or gender fluid or whatever. Whether they were closeted or confused or simply grew unhappy with their old identity or some mix, is a different question with individual answers. The only universal I see, is that they want to be treated as the new gender after coming out, and were treated as a different gender before coming out. I thought this was the distinction captured by cis and trans, original and changed gender.
From the Wiki article on cisgender:
>> Cisgender (often abbreviated to simply cis):... individuals' experiences of their own gender agree with the sex they were assigned at birth. Sociologists Kristen Schilt and Laurel Westbrook define cisgender as a label for "individuals who have a match between the gender they were assigned at birth, their bodies, and their personal identity".>>
Are you saying that in your experience when someone comes out as gay, they were straight before that? And then became uncomfortable, and decided to be gay instead because it suited them better?
Because orientation a pretty good comparison, just not in support of what you seem to think it is. When an adult says they are gay, especially an adult man, we assume they were always gay - though we allow for some fuzziness and variability when it comes to what it means to be a gay or straight infant or toddler. By the same token, we assume that a person who transitions in adulthood always was the gender they are now presenting.
Do you recognize a distinction between sex and gender? It can be helpful to think of sex as the body and gender as the mind, with gender the one more relevant for all social purposes.
These days though, the cool kids don't recognize sex. Only gender exists. You can guess at an infant's gender by looking at their body but you need to be prepared to learn that you made an error. In today's thinking, if I am a woman then I by definition have a woman's body; if I happen to have a penis and testicles, then they are my female genitalia of my woman's body. I'm old though and while I think I more-or-less understand this way of thinking it's not quite my own.
(Chromosomes aren't the be-all and end-all either. If you are androgen-insensitive you can be XY and have a completely normal-appearing girl-type body.)
No. In my experience, people I've known well have always identified as gay by rejecting the straight assumption at some point. Maybe before puberty. Maybe after marriage. Maybe after going through bi. All it means to me when someone says they are gay, is that they are interested in sex or romance with the same gender. They are not going to feel as nice or maybe disgusted by sex or romance with the opposite gender. It states nothing about how they got to that point, to me. This view has seemed to work for me, I am not so surprised when gay people were married or have bio kids. Or straight people date SS for awhile. Or that bi people exist. I think that most people cluster toward straight or gay but not all.
Chromosomes aren't the be-all and end-all either.
To you. To me the exceptions are so rare that the assumption works fine.
In practice, when someone says they are a woman, you treat them as if they were always a woman. If they have an obvious adam's apple or boobs or announce themselves as trans, I think it's polite to take the fact that they were raised as a different gender into account. If you think this harms anyone, I'd like to hear how. I try to be polite. But moreso realistic.
And I don't think I explicitly said; people appeal to force because it does beat reason. That is why higher social authority exists as well, because force beats reason. I value reason and consider it a high failure to have to resort to force because your grasp of reason is insufficient... and some people have judged force advantageous, so they disagree.
Oh, so cis means identification with one's genetic sex.
Environment/ nurture bears an influence, i believe.
I agree Philo. There is no conclusive profof how orientation is determined, not that it matters. One desires who one desires.
tough woman, I don't get spooked easily.. E's energy towards specific women bordered on hot rage as I felt it.
Maybe not hate, I concede, it still felt very menacing.
It's really not funny, just a complete failure of communication.
Happy Thanksgiving.
interesting. But... we've established in the past that my skin is far thicker than yours... so i can't say it surprises me.
I don't think its no big deal. I think its rude. I think its uncalled for. I think E shows how immature he is when he resorts to name calling. I think he undermines any and every reasonable point he has ever made when he blows his fuse. And... i think he should go away. I am not surprised the group censored him. Can't say i blame anyone. It gets old in a hurry. But... i still find censorship hypocritical in general.... as no one censors thoughts they agree with (even if those thoughts fall outside the accepted Stranger slog policy).
(and i didn't read the posts of E that were deleted. They had already been deleted..... so if they were the worst he has ever posted... and not just more of the same vitriolic crap... maybe i would re-think..)
Happy Thanksgiving to you too. Sincerely. (since i refuse to believe you are actually dismissing me...and are instead just making a point, right?) ;)
Oh I see. If something isn't a problem for you personally... then it's not a problem. Got it.
" In today's thinking, if I am a woman then I by definition have a woman's body; if I happen to have a penis and testicles, then they are my female genitalia of my woman's body. I'm old though and while I think I more-or-less understand this way of thinking it's not quite my own. "
Is that a common concept among the younger generation? Hadn't heard that before...though it does make sense logically speaking... it is hard to keep straight (no pun intended)
One's environment is important. I'd rather avoid having a new arsehole torn than dealing with it later.
The Internet is our environment too. Dan says very clearly on his site, be kind to each other.
Yes, sometimes the personal attacks can get hairy, I'm guilty of that. More often than not, I'm not that attached emotionally to my words, often it's to make a point. Diminishing in any way the horrors of rape, that one gets me going.
So yes. Stuff goes down here. People bump into each other.
E could get into such a triggered state, that he'd drive a semi trailer right thru the middle of everyone.
As I have said, I feel affection for E. He seems a highly intelligent man. There seems to be deep damage there that he doesn't face about himself.
Our damage is our business, as much as possible, we should spare the world of it. Yes, others may have contributed to the damage, it doesn't help to blame them.
See where they have violated us,tell them face to face:letter: email, move away from them,
even charge them thru the law if their crime servere enough; after that , the healing is on our heads, with others help.
Oh have we. Feeling defensive?
i still find censorship hypocritical in general.... as no one censors thoughts they agree with
It's only hypocritical when people display the same behavior that they censor, or refuse to be censored in the way they censor others. You may not care about this thread or anyone on it, but I'll eat my hat if you wouldn't censor your partner if she called you a piece of shit. All people have standards of acceptable behavior, whether hypocritical or not.
i refuse to believe you are actually dismissing me...and are instead just making a point, right?
I find your ideas here pretty easy to dismiss. I think you're taking anti censorship to anarchist extremes. I wish that you had taken your own advice to stay out of the fight. I'm glad that you've at least addressed E's behavior as well as attempt to influence people to ignore the "report abuse" option.
"It's only hypocritical when people display the same behavior that they censor, or refuse to be censored in the way they censor others" I do not agree with this.... so i guess we just smile and nod and go our separate ways on this particular subject.