Columns Jan 31, 2008 at 4:00 am

You Guys Are Animals


Get on the internet. Start looking for bestiality forums and chat rooms. Find yourself a roommate into the same thing, and then you have the best of both worlds. You will have no worries of trying to hide what you are, you will have like-minded human companionship, and someone to help out with the animals when needed. The worst that can happen is you will find understanding people to talk to. There are lots of us out there, many with lots of experience in living with our "problem". Hope to see you around :)
It's so funny, that gays want to be accepted by others and keep their alternative sexuality, and feel good about their choice, approving themselves, while at the same time, when presented with another alternative sexuality, are quick to suggest exactly the opposite, that the person stop doing it. I applaud Dan for his openness and understanding. Any kind of abusive relationship is bad, and any kind of loving, harmless relationship might benefit both partners. People are quick to assume something is bad just like some people think homosexuality is bad, without knowing the whole story. It was interesting to read the suggestions of alternatives because most gay men if asked to consider (for example) a woman as an alternative, might just laugh. If both partners are healthy and happy that is a good start.
I am in love with my dogs. So much more than all the other people. I don't want to be excepted, just to be left along to do what I and my dogs enjoy doing with each other. No one is getting hurt, harmed, nor abused. All of us are consenting to the acts.
You all are denying dogs to have sex in a one dog household. Not letting a dog to enjoy blowing their loads when needed, such. How would you feel if you were not aloud to ever have sex, or to jerk yourself off for life. You would go crazy. What do you feel the dogs are going through. If a male dog is willing to mount and screw a person, and if the person wants the dog to screw them, so let it be. They are both consenting to the act of sex. Besides, dog sex is a so much safer than human sex, and also it smells and tastes much better than human sex. I love my dogs............!!!!!!!!!!!
Right. Now, I'm rather accepting of most sexualities. I may not share them, but I do accept them, and am always willing to learn more or even sometimes talk about them.

Bestiality is something I experienced at an early age. I understood that it was frowned upon in society, and I honestly didn't care. To me, it was fantasy that I enjoyed. And that was what I liked; the idea of it. If it wasn't frowned upon, if it wasn't so painful, if it was more commonplace, if it was safe, then I might have. But this is not a world that is such. And honestly? It's likely that women will have a better time of it.

My advice for RUFF is to either stick with the fantasy aspect, or be very careful. Over time my primary fetishes shifted, but that was due mostly in part to being exposed to other fetishes and my non-dependence on a physical relationship. If he can deal with not really needing to physically touch them; if he can look at porn and imagine himself in it and have it work just as effectively, it might do him a world of good to shift bestiality from a primary fetish to a secondary or tertiary fetish. Don't get rid of it completely, but kill the strength of it so you can deal with other things. I found a middle ground and stuck with furries; not the ones in real life, I mean the ones you may find in erotic art (if you can even call it something that fancy sometimes).

RUFF, if you go ahead with house-with-high-fence advice, at least I will not persecute you. However, if you are looking for a way to change yourself or at least take a small fetish detour away from bestiality, you really might want to try exposing yourself to other stuff.

See, I sometimes still get turned on by bestiality, but I don't actively search for it very often. It's just sort of in the background, and I don't act on it.

Having a healthy mind when it comes to sexual desires is just as important as dealing with the body's needs. Figure out a middle ground, and you will likely be all the happier.
"For the record, I'm con bestiality. I think fucking dogs is wrong, wrong, wrong."

GASP! You... zoophobe! Rest assured, you'll swallow these words when the first "Bestiality Pride" parade comes marching.
It surprises me that people would compare bestiality with same-sex attraction or any other sort of adult human consensual sex.

Clearly the only real parallel is child molestation with a young person who is sexually aware. Girls start masturbating as young as 4, for example, and so they might technically feel good getting an orgasm but sex would still be wrong, wrong, wrong and so it would be for a dog.

I am a bit disturbed at Dan's suggestion about the house and the fence, and still more rolled eyes at the fact that he knows about the torture, abuse, etc in meat but WHATEVs utlimately this sort of this, like child abuse, needs to stay in fantasy land.
This place need some zoophile/zoosexual comments.

1-Not everybody that is attracted to non-humans has a fetish, zoosexuality is a recognized sexual orientation (can't be cured) this is something we zoosexuals have know for long time and studies made by: Andrea Beets, Hani Miletski and others have show the world we are a sexual orientation, we didn't chose consciously to be like this, we love, we care and we want to have an emotional connection with the animal and we wouldn't never hurt them or rape them, they are not an object to us.

2-Many people are into bestiality for the taboo or the fetish, they only care about the sex, they don't have nor care to have an emotional connection with the animal. Like "Suggest No Animals For U" is wrongly calling himself a zoophile, he was a BESTIALISTS, he trespassed property to rape other people animals, instead of getting a dog (or horse) working the relationship and see if the animal would accept him as his mate. He had a fetish for animal sex, animals where like a masturbatory object to him.

3-ANIMALS ARE NOT CHILDREN, all animals reach a point in their life where they are mentally, physically, emotionally and sexually mature (so you can't compare an adult animal with a child or a retarded human with no skills to consent to sex) adult animals can consent to sex, they do have sex all the time and they are well equipped to say NO if they don't want sex. When they are adults and have consensual sex, they will not get harm in any way (unlike an immature human that will get hurt from having sex with others)

4-IS NOT ILLEGAL EVERYWHERE. Many places and countries is legal under secular logical liberal reasons, is only legal if the animal is not forced or abused, if the relationship is abusive the animal abuse law will punish the person for having abusive sex or for rape. The places where it is illegal, they use religion, morals and superstition as reasons to make it illegal (those are illogical reasons to base a law) those reasons are the same illogical reasons people use to make other things illegal (like homosexual sex)

5-YES THEY CAN CONSENT. Most adult animals have language, human can learn that language so he understand when the animal is consenting or denying consent (if you want to learn it you can Google "dog body language, "dog emotions" "how dogs communicate with humans", "non-verbal language", "non-verbal consent") Any ethologist can confirm that animals can say NO or YES (in their language) to activities that a human may try to do to them. If a person tries to masturbate a dog, the dog can give his consent by acting happy and humping the human hand and not showing that he dislike the behabior(this is also true for bitches) or if the dog wants to say NO he/she will said it by grunting, biting, moving away, barking, acting with fear or submission or discomfort, hiding the tail, lowering the ears, etc. A dog may use one or many combinations of those signals to say NO, a human that has spend time with the dog will learn how the dog says NO to sex or other behaviors and how the dog say YES to sex or other behaviors, so there is no fear of confusing the dog consent at any point as the human already understand well how that dog will say NO to things he/she doesn't consent.

6-ABOUT DISEASES OR PHYSICAL PROBLEMS. Animals don't have STDs, they can't get human STDs nor give them, they may have zoonosis but those are pretty rare on domestic animals that are healthy and well care, and any person can get a zoonosis not only by sex, just by petting the aniaml, touching something where he poop/pee/lick or even breathing dust with urine particles. No animal disease has become a STDs in 22,000 years (PS: AIDs was caused from eating badly cooked monkey meat and not by fucking a wild animal) now about physical problems, dogs have penis from 3 inches to 12 inches (there are even humans with 1 inches penis but the average size is 6 inches) and bitches can take those 12 inches penis from the male dogs. So if a male human gets a bitch of the right size according to his penis, he won't have a problem having consensual harmless and it will be pleasureful for the female dog and the human (yes bitches have a clitoris and multiple orgasm) Same goes for male dog on girl or on guy, girls can take a 12 inches without dieing with training with sex toys of a similar size, males humans can too with a lot of anal training with toys of similar size. About the knot, well it is only a problem it is forced, normally the dog penis will deflate and untie just like it happens with bitches, getting tie by a dog is not deadly, nor impossible, and the right size dog for you won't hurt you.

@Dan savage, pleas study dog ethology and dog sexual behabior and communication and all that is needed so you understand that they can consent, if the human knows all that and he/she wants to respect the animal opinion, there will be no abuse, and no rape, just two consensual adult animals having fun.
I think Savage is right in that domesticated animals are basically a slave class we do anything and everything to. As a society, we've been doing it for eons, and we're not suddenly going to go vegan en masse so that dogfuckers won't have the moral high ground.

The thing is that even for people who try to own pets ethically (and I'm one of them--no, I don't fuck them, I'm not a zoophile) it's impossible to erase the power advantage we have over them. For starters, many people in my country consider it abuse that I give my cats free access to the outdoors. Yes, animals (and people) live longer in captivity, but that doesn't mean they would choose that. They still have the choice to remain indoors all their lives, and guess what, it's not very appealing to them.

But consent is a larger topic than sexual consent--it also encompasses things like medical procedures. And when it comes to that, I do not give my animals the power of consent. I cannot communicate to a cat that she needs to go to the vet now to get shots so she doesn't get sick from going outside. And if communication were possible, she might agree that's in her best interest, but I've also had all my pets spayed/neutered, and I'm pretty sure that's a surgery few to none of them would be on board with. When I've had the power to have my cat's ovaries and uterus removed, which in addition to robbing her of a sex life and a family, alters her scent and therefore her social status through her hormones, and I've exercised this power, the idea of equality between us is a joke.

And yeah, when I move, they don't get asked nicely if they'd like to come along, they get shoved in carriers and dragged terrified to the new house. When they're dirty, they get held down and bathed. What we think of as being a good owner requires just that--being an owner. People who call themselves pet guardians and do all I do or more are delusional. Adult animals are not children. We take choice away from them, and we hold power over them, that's just a fact.

And actually, this is the reason zoophilia squicks me. Adult animals aren't best compared to children, they are best compared to slaves. A slave cannot give consent to their master, because the power imbalance is so huge it will taint any decision. Does the OP plan on using collars? Leashes? Getting his dog vetted? (I can safely assume he won't neuter, which I'm sure the dog will appreciate.) Will the dog have free and equal access to the world, to be allowed to go for a walk wherever and whenever he wants? Most dogs found strutting down the street alone without a collar would end up in the shelter. Dogs aren't free, they can't just "go for a walk" like we can.

The reason "nonverbal consent" isn't really enough for humans is because "your body was saying yes" is woefully inadequate. In a wild animal that chose to be with you without force or coercion or food-bribery, nonverbal consent might be enough, but in a slave animal, it just isn't. You're everything to this animal, you are the owner of the territory he lives on, you are the sole provider of his meals, you're probably the one to hold his leash, he knows he's a slave, and he knows his life may depend on pleasing you--his happiness almost certainly does. Under those circumstances, pretty much anyone would engage in sex with you, but that's not real consent, there's tons of baggage and subtle coercion going on. When a zoophile looks for a partner, they don't find someone independent and woo them--they acquire a slave and woo them. I think anyone can see why these two things are fundamentally different. Animals can consent to sex with their equals, but we are not their equals.

But on the other hand again, four million dogs are euthanized in US shelters each year. Read that number again. Four million. That's eighty thousand per week. And many more are abused, in a variety of ways. Honestly, if I had to be a dog, I'd rather be the pet of a zoophile than the kind that lives its life on a short chain in the yard and is never given any kind of socialization, or on death row in a shelter. The fact that it should be better is irrelevant to these dogs for whom it is NOT better, here and now. A life of coerced sex isn't the best, no, but it isn't the worst, either. (It's pretty much what all women lived with before women's suffrage. Men had all the power, and we had to fuck them for our suppers. Clearly not an ideal scenario, but something it's possible to live with.) I am also con-dogfucking, but RUFF is going to get his big yard, and I'm going to look the other way because he'd probably be getting that dog from a puppy mill (no shelter would give him an unneutered animal) and the big yard is better than the big drum of dead animals behind the shelter, which is where most mill puppies end up.
Quite simply, the biggest question is how RUFF or any other zoophile induces the animal to have sex. In my opinion, the only bestiality which could possibly be considered other than rape is what RUFF wants: to be penetrated. I can't imagine how he would force a dog to do this. Unfortunately for him, I don't believe many dogs would decide to either. Maybe he'll get lucky and find an anthrophile dog.
Wow, is this a bizarre thread. Before reading this I wouldn't have been able to believe that I could possibly consider that bestiality wasn't on the list of the most horrible crimes (just below aggravated bestiality).

What I find most enlightening is the idea that there is a difference between bestiality and zoophilia. It reminded me of an excellent article I read long ago about the difference between pedophiles and child molesters. The quote I remember ran along the lines of, "very few pedophiles are child molesters and very few child molesters are pedophiles."
I am not really an animal person, and don't feel anywhere near as guilty about eating meat as I do about buying human slave-labour products (both of which I do frequently). So maybe I am not the best person to be commenting here, but I really agreed with everything you said Dan, and I thought you handled a horrible dilemma really well. While I am disgusted by the idea of human-on-animal sex, I also very much believe in unchangable sexual interests and can imagine how much it would suck to realise that is where your attraction lies.
As much as this topic gives me the creeps, I think dogs can give consent - by initiating (which they probably never fail to do.) It's also the reason I can't stand dogs : the second you look away, they start humping your leg! Gross. Anyway, good dog owners seem to be able to communicate with their dogs pretty well, and that RUFF would know what the dog is enthusiastic about vs what constitutes abuse. And sure, given the opportunity, the dog would probably go for some other dog instead, but they don't seem too choosy.
(And given the opportunity, I'd go for a japanese supermodel, but that doesn't keep me from enjoying other partners until Sayuri Anzu rolls around. )
I feel like I have to go wash my mouth with soap now, though.

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