NTOM - Read a book called, "Will He Ever Leave Her For Me" by Rona B. Subotnik, LMFT. In it, she sites a statistic that less than 1% of all married men who have affairs leave their wives for the other woman, and virtually 100% of those men do so within the 1st year of the affair. Time to face facts and DTMFA. Also read Magenta007's comments above, that is your future should you decide to continue on the path you're on. At 28 you can get some support (a good therapist) and create an entirely different future for yourself.

Virgin At Thirty: You're going to be okay. Don't sleep with anyone unless both your mind and your body agree that it's a good idea for _both_ of you. It was my policy when I was a virgin, it's always been my policy, and it's never steered me wrong. I don't regret any of the people I haven't slept with.

For VAT
He sounds a bit like me when I was in school. I was too immature to puzzle it out back then but apparently the girls knew that a little drinking gave them cover the next day, You know...-"He got me drunk". I mistakenly thought people my age could take responsibility for their needs, but I was wrong. VAT is going to have to play the game, no sense in trying to change a game that has been around for a million years.

I read the letter out-loud to my mother and her answer was, without skipping a beat "move the bed away from the wall and put sponges between the legs and the floor." I am not interessted in how she knows this works. She also pointed out that loud music could get them kicked out. Shame...awsome song.

I see a lot of contemptible selfishness in these postings.
Regardng the sex noises: they are just like other noises which disturb neighbours. I agree with the 11 to 7 rule, as well as trying a futon or laying a mattress on the floor. The horny girl and boy-friend are the centre of THEIR universe but not of everybody else's. So she is right to feel inhibited and ought to follow the constructive advice extended above. Reassuring her that it is tough luck for the neighbours (I paraphrase) is not good advice.

"F**k 'em, they're simply jealous"

Wrong *again*!

I can have sex and not want to be battered with sound made by inconsiderate jerks. Inability to comprehend consideration of others due to being an inconsiderate jerk, and being dead-absolute certain at the top of your lungs, doesn't make you right.

NTOM is an example of the kinds of twits, twats and trash that make me think, every time I read an advice column with another set of losers getting pregnant/getting someone pregnant: "Oh no, this is what's breeding like flies out there".

Ugh. DON'T fucking fuck in the library. /Some of us/ actually are literate and /use/ the thing. I'm not sexphobic or any such thing, but isn't it doublely inconsiderate to be fucking where others will see and hear you? Sure, go fuck in the library, but don't get mad when someone like me comes over and laughs at you and tells you to get the fuck out.

I also don't think that just because VAT is a virgin, means he doesn't know anything. There's a lot of "technical" knowledge about sex that one can have before they screw. Inexperianced ≠ clueless. It just means you haven't tested your hypotheses. But yeah, he should get out there, at least make out and get the oral thing out of the way, loose that technical virginity and save penetration for whoever he falls in loo~ve with. Then he won't be a virgin but you won't have "spoiled" what he sees as a larger commitment.

And that mother-to-be? Leave the guy. He's not leaving his wife. DON'T use your baby to manipulate him. Go be fucking independent. If you can't support the kid alone, you can kill three birds with one stone and sue him for child support. Then the wife knows, he's out of your life as an active person, and your kid won't be dirt ass poor.

Um, why don't Loud And Clear and her BF just go over to HER place to have sex?

For face sitting guy: I'm a girl who happens to have the same fantasy, and I'm so happy you wrote in, because otherwise I would probably never have heard of the accommodator. Still haven't seen one, and maybe it is ridiculous, but my husband's getting one for christmas! So it goes on the chin instead of the nose: if she sits on your face facing the other way you can still lick her clit and face-fuck her at the same time.

Loud and Clear: This is precisely why waterbeds were invented. The cheesier the better.

NTOM, I've been in a similar situation, falling completely in love with a married man at 23 years old, so I won't echo any of the nasty things that have been said to you about that. Everyone makes mistakes, and for me the key was to learn from that. Because of that experience, I KNOW I will never cheat again. Neither will he. It was horrible for everyone involved, even though we are together now and have a great relationship.

I will say that having the baby out of spite or wishing harm to him isn't the answer. When my partner's wife found out, I felt more horrible than I ever have. You won't be ruining things for him as much as you will for the innocent bystanders.

Best wishes.

A note to Now the Other Mom- You are clearly a very manipulative person and I hope to GOD that you miscarry or the poor bastard gets taken into child protective services. Seek mental help.

NTOM - If you have to wrestle a man away from another woman he's not in love with you and you're not really in love with him either.

I know that pretty much everyone but me is anti-feminist but consider this feminist take on the situation: Why is having a man so important to you? Why are you so focused on snagging this guy that you're also willing to screw over another woman? Do you really want to do that to someone? Do you really want to be with someone who's willing to do that to his wife?

It's possible to have a relationship with someone who actually wants to be with you. It's also possible to have a relationship without tricking someone into being with you.

Please stop leaving evidence of your affair around his house. It's beyond selfish and downright cruel to his wife and kids. You will scar them for life and then they'll continue the cycle of toxic dysfunction, inflicting it on others. And, then there's the damage you'll wreak on your unborn child, where to begin on that one?

You desperately need to get some perspective on the situation. You're still pretty young. You may very well end up doing something you'll be ashamed of when you get older and hopefully smarter. You'll be stuck with that shame for the rest of your life. Still, it's possible to assume from your letter, that you lack any semblance of empathy and so won't care. I really hope, for your sake, that that's not true.

Stop what you're doing. Have an abortion. Get therapy. Work on becoming a caring, compassionate human being. Get a hobby.

Goddammit, every time I get carried away with women being the superior sex, I have to read some shit like NTOM's oh-so-cliche sob story. I was once eating out a nursing student who couldn't stop talking about the professor she loved and who was going to leave his wife. I saw her 20 years later, a spinster (unmarried) still. Pathetic.

Guess I better shake this delusion that many women aren't just stupid douchebags....

VAT - It's not very popular these days to criticize the notion of being a virgin at 30--there are enough people under 30 who've been through abstinence based sex ed who do not consider this strange. Because I am considerably over thirty, however, being a virgin at 30 seems a little odd to me.

I think something else might be going on.

I sense fear of sex and/or a fear of intimacy coupled w/ perfectionism in your letter. It's really not that difficult to have sex without exploiting someone or to have sex that's affectionate. Really. Your letter suggests that conceiving of sex in those terms seems difficult for you, which suggests to me that you might see sex or yourself being sexual as a negative thing.

Further, you use a lot of qualifiers to describe yourself. I'm guessing you want readers to not to stereotype you (e.g. think you're a fundamentalist christian) and understand that you run w/ a sex positive crowd (or so it seems to me). That makes sense, but it also sounds like a lot of explaining, which in turn sounds like a lot of covering up. Obviously it's not my business to know any more about you, but I wonder if there's something you've not come to terms with yet.

You could try messing around with one of the women you know or find a guy, but I think there's more going on here. I think therapy might help.

Ha ha! I had the same issue in college. My husband and I still have the note tucked away in our box of keepsakes (I believe one of the choice phrases referred to my incessant squealing). We laughed it off and kept making noise. We also had some adventures trying to find somewhere else on campus to have sex, which resulted in a hilarious incident in what we believed to be an abandoned classroom in the evening when in marched a continuing education class of retirees. Now that was embarassing!

"For VAT
He sounds a bit like me when I was in school. I was too immature to puzzle it out back then but apparently the girls knew that a little drinking gave them cover the next day, You know...-"He got me drunk". I mistakenly thought people my age could take responsibility for their needs, but I was wrong. VAT is going to have to play the game, no sense in trying to change a game that has been around for a million years."

WOW. If this "game" that has been around for a million years is sexual assault, then you are right on the money, asshole.

The idea of women using alcohol as "cover" and the message that women need to "take responsibility for their actions" sets off a lot of alarms because it sounds like something a rape-apologist would say. The fact is, women may use alcohol as a social lubricant, but only a minority (with serious issues) are going to use it as an excuse to have sex. Women who are saying "he got me drunk" don't need to "take responsibility for their actions," they need to be taken seriously.

Maybe he did get her drunk... maybe he did ply her with shots until she couldn't walk straight, and then maybe he tried to have sex with her.

Why is it necessarily irresponsible to get drunk with somebody you should be able to trust? And honestly, unless you're going to say "women should assume all men want to rape them," you're promoting a fucking twisted view of men. A reasonable woman should be able to assume that she will not be taken advantage of if plastered.

So I ask you... who is acting irresponsibly in that scenario? HE IS.

Look, I am not saying that drunken sex can't be beautiful, but I think Dan's advice is walking a fine line, and I think some of the comments have crossed that line. Yes, relationships are often going to involve a little persuasion, and yes, alcohol can sometimes help people loosen up and have a good time, but there is a difference between persuading somebody and taking away their ability to make an informed decision.

That is where you have to be careful.

"And honestly, unless you're going to say "women should assume all men want to rape them," you're promoting a fucking twisted view of men."

That should say,

"And honestly, if you're going to say "women should assume all men want to rape them," you're promoting a fucking twisted view of men." Unless you are going to say that, you cannot say she was acting irresponsibly.

Loud and Clear, get yourself a nice bath towel and take your boy to some rooftops on campus. Rooftop sex is lovely…

NTOM, DTMFA. Get out of there and get your head on straight. He is NOT such a fucking prize. Come on, he cheats on his wife, DUH!

To VAT: Yes it is FINE to wait until you fall in love with someone to have sex. The sex I've had with people I've been in love with has been about a thousand times better than with people I wasn't in love with. That's partly because trust is a big deal to me. It's okay to wait for a time and a person you feel comfortable with. You might wait a while, but that's fine too.

VAT sounds a lot like a couple of my friends, so here's what I would say- Talk to your girl friends. Talk about your virginity, talk about situations they feel would be a situation in which a girl is being taken advantage of. Talk about considering changing (not lowering! this is important later) your standards for sex. After a few weeks or months of talking- one of those girls is going to be open to having sex with you, if she's not already! A little booze will probably help the situation (and you've already talked with her about how she feels about alcohol-lubricated sex). She already knows what she's getting into, and you're not "lowering" your standards (which implies she's not good enough for the originals), you're just changing them to allow for some nice friendly rolls in the hay.

Hey Alan,

Um, why is it pathetic not to be married? It hasn't been 1955 for a long, long time. Who talks like that anymore?

This whole "superior sex" thing is so nauseating and fucked up, so patronizing. There is no superior sex, or rather gender. (There are, however, superior people: Pete Seeger, Mother Teresa, Vandana Shiva, Mr. Rogers, etc.).

The men that blather on about women being superior tend to be the most sexist. We all have baggage and evil lurks in all humans (who cultivates it, gets to act it out, do the most damage depends on power dynamics, but that's a more complicated post).

The flip side of idealization is demonization. You mention cliches, what about the Madonna/Whore complex? Sounds like you're familiar with that.

I understand VAT as I'm in much the same situation (I'm a bit younger). He just doesn't want to take advantage of anyone or do anything he'll regret (and probably has a fear of diseases and children). That may not be a healthy reaction and we may both be weird nutjobs, but I think it's something else. I think it might be his friends. A very good friend of mine has explained how cold and emotionless his sexual encounters are. He enjoys the sex, but there's really no connection to the other person. Afterwards, it's like it never happened. If all casual encounters are simply going-through-the-motions sex, what's the point? And I've heard much the same from others. When the people closet to you have such horrid or risky or bland or desperate or expensive sex lives, it can change how you look at sex (especially if you're a late bloomer already because you go to those who know when you want to talk about it). I want to at least like the person I have sex with and for them to care about my needs as I would do theirs. And to remember their name after they go (whether they come back or not is another story). I don't necessarily want to fall in love. I simply want a full filling, affectionate experience (which my friends don't have or know anything about despite how much sex they have). People will continuously tell you you're foolish for wanting to not regret your first sexual encounter, but F' em. You gotta do what's right for you. My advice, LOOK. You won't find her at the end of your nose. And if she/he doesn't like that you're a virgin (or is rude or some other bs), then they're not the one for you.

And if you think your trepidation has to do with your peception of sex, get counseling (i did). The only thing that'll make any of this any easier is your drive to fix it.

I can't remember a time in my life - married or single - when I didn't enjoy, nay, clamor to hear the sounds of hot female orgasms. Whoever is writing you nasty letters is the lowest of the low. Sex sounds are a building perk, not an annoyance.

Advice to Loud and Clear: If a squeeky bed is the main problem, put the matress on the floor before you have sex. Then feel free to move as much as you want without the bed shaking.
I have a feeling if you play very loud music, they will eventualy complain to your RA and then there will be trouble.

I'll stick up for the neighbors of LAC: in college I lived with a girl who lost her virginity in our apartment, and had loud sex several times a day. The biggest problem was that she wasn't making orgasmic or enjoyment noise, it was all 'ouch that hurt' and 'don't DO that.' Plus they fought a lot and we would hear them yelling, her hitting them, and then all the sudden the sex noises...we just didn't want to hear a blow by blow narration of the whole process! Her bedroom was between the kitchen and living room and so we literally could not be in any of the common areas of our apartment without hearing it. Everyone in that apartment was having sex regularly, not everyone was quiet all the time, and she was the only one any of us ever seriously complained about. LAC may want to just try to cut down on the talking aspect, and perhaps also if she's a screamer. The bed noise isn't particularly loud; wrap towels around the bed posts/headboard where it hits the wall and make sure you have those rubber pads that keep furniture from moving too much under the bed posts. I had a bed on wheels for a while that moved a lot, and those two things took care of it.

For VAT: the kind of girl you seem to be looking for is ultimately going to want to know that you really want to be with her. Otherwise she wouldn't have any reason to go through the trouble of devirginizing, teaching, and putting up with you. All of your descriptives would be a huge red flag that you're generally confused about your sexuality, and so the girl's going to wonder if she's an experiment or if you're going to leave her for a guy with no warning. Plenty of girls are OK with someone whose sexuality is flexible, but nobody wants to enter a relationship when they have all the reasons it's going to fall apart listed out to them in the beginning. You say you have lots of girl friends: why aren't any of them dating or hooking up with you? Ask them, and I bet you'd hear they think you're just not a good bet for a relationship.

Dear LAC,

I do hope you take all the good advice on this thread, i.e. moving bed away from wall, having sex on non-study nights, moving mattress to floor, finding other venues, putting padding between legs of bed and floor etc.

Blasting loud music is not good advice. Blasting loud music is as annoying as your loud sex. Please don't do that. It will make your neighbors even more angry.

Let me give you an example:
Awhile back a friend of mine had neighbors who were very inconsiderate and she politely asked them to keep the sex, music, partying down on work/school nights as they were disturbing her sleep. (She was a full-time student who also worked full time, so sleep was very precious.) They, being rude selfish people ignored her polite request to turn down the volume during weeknights. My friend complained to her landlord, who gave them a tepid warning, but didn't evict them (at this time & place apartments were plentiful and tenants few on the ground). So the neighbors continued to be noisy and inconsiderate. My friend decided to show them just how irritating their noise was by recording them. When the tape was made she waited for an appropriate moment to demonstrate how unpleasant having them for neighbors was. That moment was when the rent-payers dropped by for a visit. The actual rent-payers were not the noisy rude neighbors. They rent payers were the parents of the young lady (1/2 of the inconsiderate couple). You see they rented the apartment for their daughter and her female roommate, because they didn't want her living in some wicked, sinful co-ed dorm on campus. The young man, her boyfriend, wasn't supposed to be living there at all. Needless to say the parents were quite surprised to witness their daughter's extracurricular activities (fucking, partying, drinking, fighting, drug using, etc, etc..). When they found out their darling daughter was flunking out of college to party and fuck, they stopped paying the rent and so the noisy, inconsiderate couple moved away and peace & quiet reigned.

1st letter: Couldn't that guy die if she's vigorous and somehow the dildo hits his nose and whatever that bone is called jams into his brain, karate style?

2nd letter: "genderqueer, bi-leaning-het male virgin". Um, maybe the first 3 words explain the 4th.

Please, not the library. Youll frighten some poor social-outcast-geek half to death. Trust me, I know.

NTOM, Im a child of the sort you are going to have....my mom tried to get her man by pregnency and Im that child and I have never had a father....my father hates me and all the problems that my being has costet him = I pay for my mothers idiotic plan-to get a man by pregnency. Don´t do it.

Umm, actually, sex noises can be really annoying sometimes. Just like walking noises or music noises or whatever noises when you live directly below someone, especially in some ramshackle am-I-actually-in-your-room-because-I-can-hear-you-yawning dorm room.

Maybe these neighbors aren't jealous; maybe they have to dodge falling pieces of plaster as they navigate the treacherous couch-to-TV passageway.

Or maybe they just want to spend a quiet night indoors watching episodes of "Mad Men" on their computer or doing the crossword or fucking SLEEPING without feeling like they're hanging around the set of some really boring teen porno.

You're in college. That means communal living. It doesn't last forever. So be nice about it.

really, just because the neighbors don't want to hear noisy sex, does not mean they are jealous. that is such a juvenile response.

In regards to #1 - The "Chindo" is available here:
http://www.lovehoney.co.uk/product.cfm?p… and they have a number of other ones too.

NTOM-I understand what you are going through. Though mine did not end in pregnancy, I was in an affair with a man for two years and it recently ended. For all the bashers out there...often affairs begin as simple friendships and snowball from there. It is not a matter of keeping your pants on, but instead is something that naturally happens when two people let their guards down. In a moment of weakness or perhaps sharing of something very personal..it just happens..and after that it is hard to go back. I soon realized I was never going to be able to be a part of his life and so parted ways-losing my best friend.

know-it-all,

Whether someone will leave their family for you is not an indicator of their feelings for you. It is a matter of having invested time and love into building that family. Just because they still love their family does not mean that they can not still love you.

Also, having an affair is not a sign of a non-compassionate person. It is a sign of weakness a flaw..maybe you have some yourself?

Also, the decision to have a child is never stupid. As long as the child is raised with love..which in this situation IS possible. If every person born to parents who made bad decisions in the past was aborted this world would not necessarily be a better place. Who are you to judge what kind of parent this woman would be? ridiculous.

Hey me,

It's always fun when someone replies, even when they're obviously pissed off and disagree with me.

Now to address your points:

You say: "Whether someone will leave their family for you is not an indicator of their feelings for you. It is a matter of having invested time and love into building that family. Just because they still love their family does not mean that they can not still love you."

Agreed, a person's willingness to leave their family is not an indicator of their feelings for the person w/ whom they're having an affair. NTOM's letter however suggests that her lover is stringing her along, as he keeps telling her he will leave but then doesn't. You could call that ambivalence, and maybe it is. Still, his ambivalence coupled w/ his bad reaction (per NTOM) to her last pregnancy and his knowledge that she isn't happy (NTOM refers to leaving him) isn't coming across as loving.

You say: "Also, having an affair is not a sign of a non-compassionate person. It is a sign of weakness a flaw..maybe you have some yourself?"

I didn't say that having an affair is a sign of a non-compassionate person. I did say that leaving evidence around for the wife of your co-conspirator to find, is mean-spirited and selfish. Bringing a child into a situation when you know that they could very likely be resented by their father is also selfish, particularly since NTOM expresses a desire to remain w/ her boyfriend (Again, NTOM states that he "reacted badly" to her last pregnancy, and she mentions her attempts to break up his marriage). That NTOM is wiling to create a disastrous situation (i.e. the wife finding out via clues, his children finding out, NTOM having a child her lover doesn't want and expecting him to remain w/ her) suggests she's lacking compassion.

For the record, I think we're all weak as well as strong--that would be characteristic of the human condition.

Of course I have flaws myself, I am intimately acquainted w/ them. We meet on a daily basis. I'm guessing you didn't get the joke of my screen name: "know-it-all." When I say that, I'm making fun of myself for postulating, I mean posting, as if I'm an expert--I know I'm not, but I have plenty of opinions and interpretations. More on that later.

You say: "the decision to have a child is never stupid": I disagree, although I must point out that I never said it would be stupid for NTOM to have a child. I actually think it would be cruel, due to the highly problematic nature of the situation and the pain all involved would be subjected to.

Based on her letter, NTOM comes off rather selfish, poised as she is on the brink of chaos and ready to bring a child into it with her. I don't think that just anyone should reproduce. We're not all equipped to be parents. Reproducing is a privilege. And since there are already more children in the world than it can sustain, reproducing should be embarked on with great care.

Yes, children born into bad situations can sometimes come out okay and do great things. They can also suffer over the things done to them (see PTSD, substance abuse/dependence, or more mildly anxiety and panic) and/or perpetuate the same kind of suffering (incest, child and spouse abuse).

So, if you're gonna reproduce, I think you should at least make an effort to get yourself together first so as not to generate more suffering. Sure, it could happen anyway, but why not reduce the chances.

You say: "Who are you to judge this woman?"

I am just another poster, like everyone else. Nothing more, nothing less. Just another know-it-all, like some other posters.

I could retort: 'Who are you to judge me?', but it's okay if you disagree with me, chastise me, although I would've preferred a closer reading of my posts. I actually cut and pasted yours into my comments box so I could get your wording (and hopefully) your meaning correct. But I understand that my posts are long and could be difficult to get through.

Anything is possible. NTOM's letter is one sliver representing who she is. A sliver that invites speculation--our posts are only speculation.

"I'm a 30-year-old, mildly genderqueer, bi-leaning-het male virgin."

You are also obviously a douche. Stop obsessing over letters in the gender alphabet and focus on developing your sexuality instead of sitting around thinking of what to call it.

WOW, know-it-all you have way too much time on your hands. I was writing because you came off as a know-it-all and the posters story hit close to home. As to your comment about "reducing the chances". I think that is crap. There are just as many kids from "normal" homes that are fucked up as their are kids from dysfunctional homes that are totally fine. Also, as in my "normal" family, out of 8 4 of us are successful happy adults and the other half are a bit out there. My brother is the result of an extramarital affair. None of us knew till we were older. Sure we were angry when we found out, but I can never remember a time in my childhood when I did not feel loved. Sure it is a bad situation that she is in, and yes she sort of sounds like a vengeful person(though I am sure that is anger and a hopeless try to get attention from this man/boy) but I am sure that if she wants to she can raise this child with love. A single parent can provide the same love as a man and a woman, a man and a man, or a woman and a woman. Sometimes, it is even better that way.

Also sorry I didn't give a close enough reading of your post...I didn't know we were trying to show off here

I hope NOTM has another miscarriage because she sounds like a psychotic skank. She's willing to hurt innocent bystanders (the man's wife and children) all because she's a whiny brat who's not getting her way. That kid would be better off dead than with an egg donor like her. And "me," you can call others "bashers" all you want, but it won't change the fact that you and NOTM are just trashy sluts who are too dumb to know when you're being used by married sleazeballs. By the way, girlie, keep in mind that karma's a bitch. :)

@ me "Also, the decision to have a child is never stupid." That is SO UNTRUE. Many people have kids who shouldn't. I DON'T think you have to be wealthy to raise a kid; I *DO* think you should have some idea of how you're gonna put bread on the table; a job, a path.

I know plenty of kids who have come from humble homes that were stable & loving & grew up fine.

But there are many, many stupid reasons people decide to have kids. SOME people. They are the last of a family name..or they just want to pass on their genes/vanity (laugh but it's true); family pressure; they think having a child will fix an ailing relationship; competition w/ peers/family members who have kids; they think it's just what you do after you get married/move in together: house, then 2.5 kids.

All of those are stupid reasons, especially in a world so strained for resources, to decide to have a child.

The only good reasons are that either you are in a relationship w/ a stable partner, & decide jointly that you have the extreme patience & desire to nurture necessary to add a child to your life; OR, you're a fantastically stable single person who can afford to be a parent as well as work, & you decide about the nurturing & child-wanting, etc.

I wish being able to provide for a child - I mean emotionally & a home, more than money even - were more of a consideration for people when they decide to have kids. Lots of folks don't even decide. "Whoops!"

@ 3rd letter..Also..jumping on the bandwagon w/ what everyone else said here, but, he's never gonna leave her for you, letter three. Never. Your life is a mess. Pull yourself together, leave this sleazebag, & whatever you decide to do about the kid, get help for yourself. Ya got a sister or cousin who could put you up while you sort yourself out? 'cause where you need to be is AS FAR FROM THIS LYING CHEATING MAN AS POSSIBLE.

In favor of you NOT having the child, though, as a child of someone who didn't want children, who beat the crap out of her. Please don't bring a life you are not 100% committed to, w/ every fiber of your being, into this world.

You have to have some respect for your neighbors and their need for sleep. Put the mattress and boxspring on the floor. Its probably just a cheap bedframe that is causing all the commotion.
Or for about the cost of two Ave Q soundtracks you can buy a brand new bedframe and assemble it correctly. Put it on a used rug from craigslist.

Also, several times a day? don't you two have ummmm... classes or jobs to go to? If you fail out of college I'm sure that living back at home permanently will kill your libido for years to come.

TO the "Other Woman"
Sheesh, how often can so many women "accidentally" get pregnant over and over again. Women like Margaret Sanger devoted their whole lives to making sure we had access to birth control. There is the pill, condoms, diaphragms, and IUDs out there. You personally should look into getting your tubes tied so that there's no chance you'll ever reproduce again.
As for your "boyfriend" with a family.... how can he (or any other guy) possibley be mad when he obviously wasn't using birth control himself? (i.e. CONDOMS) He's got a family at home but instead of spending time with his children he's out banging you. And you're too stupid to realize that he's been lying this whole time....
He won't ever leave her and on the off chance that he does he won't be moving in with you. He'll pay as little child support as he can manage with both of you and go find himself some bachelor pad where he'll start making false promises to some other pathetic woman.
And then you'll be angry and depressed b/c he's cheating on you....

Third letter might be a bit cartoonish, but I think it's real. Too many of my guy friends have been with women like that. I just remind them that being gay deprives me from sharing in the joy that is sex with women. But I say it could be worse... they could be with ECB.

VAT here. Dan, thanks for replying to my question--I really appreciate it. Huge fan. And thanks to the rest of you who had thoughts to add; I've been following this thread.

Not gonna get into a conversation about this because I think it's usually bad form for people who ask questions in advice columns to dominate the comments thread, but I just want to say that I appreciate the thoughtful replies.

The adjectives were because I'd much rather sound OCD and self-absorbed than right-wing.

Sidekick Gal, I took your advice and showed my friends the column--actually I showed it to them the second I saw it online because I was pretty damn proud to be in Savage Love. :) What most of them told me was very similar to what you said, though mjd164's comment (minus the "paternalistic ass" part) was also a hit, and folks' comments re: worrying too much about emotional vulnerability and manipulation are VERY well noted. (Still gonna be very careful about the alcohol thing, though.) And know-it-all, you're right on all points.

Great response from one of my friends: "You don't date and you don't do casual sex, so when exactly would you have sex anyway?" Yep. If I don't want to have casual sex and I don't plan to stay a virgin for life, I really should get on the horn and start dating and calling it dating.

That is all. :)

My first longterm girlfriend and I had loud,wild sex all the time in college and its still great memories even though I have not scene her for years,so keep at it and just have a good time because you will remember it for ever.
The people who are complaining would do the same thing you are doing if they had the chance.
My roommate complained so some night we did keep it down but most she just got louder because he said something.

Dan, I read your column every week but (I'm sorry to say) you sometimes give terrible advice or in this case comments to women.
As for NTOM,if you're reading you need to dump him, cut all contact, don't contact the wife, have the baby (if that's what you're set on)then have a paternity test and file for child support. Only deal with him through a lawyer from here on and if no one else has said so use a form birth control every time, you careless fool, and stay away from married men or next time you might meet a wife's shot gun.
Dan, three words for most of you're female letter writers will do "Dump him, fool!"

The neighbors are totally jealous.. because you sound like you're getting stuffed and they aren't. fuck 'em. Keep on keepin on!

me - no one said it takes two, even know-it-all. what it DOES take to give a kid a fair shot at being ok later on is AT LEAST ONE adult in his or her life who is not crazy, manipulative, or delusional. NTOM's kid will have 0 of those, unless there's a doting grandparent in the background somewhere.
and of course everyone has issues. but i've never met anyone from a dysfuctional family - not divorced, not unusual, dysfunctional (which includes a lot of 'normal' families) - who came out the other side on an entirely even keel. some of them hide it really well, but they've caught the crazy too.
also, LAC - i live in a tissue-thin-walls dorm. moderate music can be helpful. but really, when my neighbor has sex, it's the superloud moaning that's the issue (my neighbor might disagree and say that with me the flogging is the issue, but screw her, she routinely starts translating stuff on speakerphone at 730 in the morning). there's no need to feel ashamed of your sex life; just find ways to show how much you're enjoying it physically or quietly - and then every few weeks (not during finals or midterms!), let loose and go crazy.

To maybe avoid the cops being called because of some noise law that city might have, they could utilize the floor, with or without big pillows......my hub an I use the floor often (without) better traction for doggy style!

Let me speak up on behalf of the neighbors in the last letter. I lived next door to a very nice couple in college, but when they "engaged in the physical act of love", the girl chanted, over and over, "Oh baby, oh baby, oh baby, oh baby, oh baby" in a high-pitched LOUD voice.
Sometimes it would go on for hours at a time (on and off, of course. They weren't machines)

I didn't leave a crass and abusive note of course. I just started calling the guy "ohbabyohbabyohbabyohbaby". They got the hint and turned it down, and even varied the chant a bit.

To be fair, I'm sure they got tired of my playing Roxy Music's "Avalon" everytime I entertained someone. But at least there are several songs on that album.

Blonde, I am sure you will be the type of woman that will someday lead her husband to cheat by using sex as a weapon to get her little way. You are likely nothing but a tease. Also, I am not a skank...I am simply human. I shared more with this married man than just sex..but it is over now. Depictions of affairs on TV are not reality...affairs fill voids in the peoples lives(not just sexual). It may not be "right" but it happens. "Karma is a bitch"- again all you see is one sliver of my person...I am also a caring friend/sister/daughter, I volunteer atleast once a week etc. etc. How dare you judge me just because you have always been faithful in your relationships does not necessarilly mean you are a good person in other areas of your life..but I will not judge you just as you have no right to judge anyone.

Man, I need to get the nerve up to write Dan a letter - I keep reading the ones he posts here and think "Nope, my life is stranger than that!" Great advice, maybe someday I will get a group cheer of DTMFA! ;-)

Wow, if Anne o finds this to be the best advice you've ever given since she started reading at age 13 then she must be what ... 13 and a week? I mean, there was nothing wrong with the advice but I can think of about a thousand times you've been way better.

NTOM, get off your moral high horse. Cheating is wrong for BOTH parties. Just because you aren't the one that is married doesn't mean you are off the hook morally. Don't be bitter against your boyfriend because you are incapable of choosing a good man, or of using birth control.

Go get that poor child an abortion as soon as possible. Children deserve to come into this world loved. Loved by BOTH parents (Right on Dan, whether they happen to have matched genitals or not). Not to have a bitter angry mom that is sure to make this kids life full of hate and drama. If anyone out there knows NTOM, talk some sense into her and get her an abortion post haste!

Oh, there's just so much to say this week. Much of it said already, so I'll just add a couple of things.

I got laid a LOT in college. Never once did I subject others to being unwilling participants in my sexual activities. While the sound of a little humping is common in close quarters, *several times a day*?! That's just rude. Tips and tricks above aside (which are great), you don't want to get so uptight it's ruined for you. I suggest either finding a spot where you can be loud or getting a cheap motel room on a lazy afternoon where you can be as loud as you want from time to time to get your groove on. You know, some hiking trails can be pretty remote, although the twigs can end up in some very personal spots. :)

NTOW - When I was about your age, I indulged in the self-destructive behavior of having an affair. It lasted 3 years. Ironically, I KNEW it was self-destructive the whole time. I managed to stay well back of the line where I allowed myself to get pregnant or deliberately tried to wreck his marriage... but you haven't, and that's where you need to get yourself at the least. Yes, married guys say all the right things. I guarantee you he is fully aware of your precarious mental state and is manipulating it for his benefit and he isn't going to change. A healthy person would not want to be involved with someone like that.

VAT - I am glad the responses are helpful and you have a plan. I had a response, but you seem to have it covered!

NTOM - have you considered that maybe the wife found all your little evidence, but doesn't care? Perhaps she doesn't like sex with him, or is preoccupied with other things, and is even a little bit grateful to be relieved of the so-called wifely duty for now. Her husband seems content with their life in general, otherwise he would have done something five years ago. Your baby will undoubtedly end your affair and drive him into the arms of another naive, but less demanding, mistress. A child is a terrible bargain and a worse suvenir.

I loved all the chin-dildo links, they really gave me a giggle. I hope everything works out for SFD! I might ask my bf to try that....

VAT: I think you need to get fucked to get the ball rolling. Losing my virginity to a good guy friend NSA was the best thing ever. We got drunk, fucked and a month later I went to college. It was great because I was able to meet my current bf without the "omg, I'm a virgin he's going to think I'm weird" alarm ringing through my brain.

NTOM: Oh dear. Move, put the baby up for adoption, never speak to him again and get your fucking tubes tied. Start a collection fund on PayPal or something. Please.

LAC: Fuck on the couch babe. Put a blanket or towels down first because "stuff" will get on the couch and you don't want to subject guests/roomies to that. Then, whenever you feel like screaming, gently bite down on your bf's shoulder and moan a little. It's hot and he will most likely go nuts.

NTOM you're such a douchy nutcase cunt.

You have the intelligence of a 13 year girl who gets pregnant to keep her puppy-love boyfriend. NAIVE!

How dare you be in a affair to begin with then try to hold a POTENTIAL HUMAN BEING, who will grow up and become a disfunctional adult(who I'll bet will resent being concieved because you needed a pawn to wrangle this guy into a commitment he will not want)!

You're an idiot to believe you have any more value to this married man than giving him a boner and an ego boost. You're a fling, you're being used. Same old game, just history repeating.

OH MY GOD, DAN.....

That 18 year old caller is too young for all that bullshit.

I did like your advice though.... that's awesome. I hope they can actually do it.

I just can't believe the abortion AND THEN HE DUMPED HER?? WTF.

Damn... so sad. I hope she can find herself and get away from that douche.

NTOM as a married women I am horrified that you feel that the only man you can get is someone else's. That is the problem with you low self esteem women instead of figuring out why you are dating someone who is technically off the market, you want to figure out how you make his wife as miserble as you. Tell me what purpose does that serve? after all she is an innocent by stander in your lewd act. I have not respect for someone who can enable an adulter remember if you win him he will in time do the same thing to you. What goes around comes around!

Hey me,

Thanks for your reply back to my reply to you.

I wish I had a lot of time on my hands, that would be great. Fortunately for me and everybody else--that would be humor again of the cheesy, obvious variety--I write and type pretty fast so it doesn't take much time to get my posts up.

I still disagree w/ you but I've made my case so I'm dropping it.

I'm glad half of your family turned out just fine. Really. I wish you and them well.

Follow up to SFD and "handyman" (the MacGyver type who wants to drill a nose-sized hole up into a dildo/strap on) - you might have a niche market there, I suggest you two team up as entrepreneurs.

I just spent $110 on a vibrator for the wifey last night (Xmas present) and that certainly is not the first one we've purchased, either.

If you end up designing and producing a specialized facesitting dildo model, please consider adding a remote controlled vibrator into the mix for clitoral stimulation only. I have to think that my wife would appreciate a more constant and controllable buzz to my haphazard attempts to stay focused and consistent while in that position! :)

Hey Virgin At Thirty--I waited until I found the right person for me and we waited a long time into the relationship for sex (happened to be when I was 30) It has been a wonderful experience to share my heart and my body with this man. I know that waiting isn't for everyone and I sometimes envy those who can just get it on without a deep, lasting emotional connection but that's not who I am and so this works for me. It seems like that's what works for you too...so just keep living life and see what happens. Just make sure to do a double check and understand if this is more about protecting yourself from venerability or waiting for the right person. :) Good luck!

I had this very problem. I want to hear to sound of sex, not the bed. I had a bed that I got from Boconcept and managed to unscrew the legs and turn it into a platform bed. Now that the mattress is on the floor, the neighbors may hear the sex, but they certainly don't hear the bed. If you can't do this, put the mattress on the floor and ditch the frame.

VAT Sounds like he is straight but is so desperate that he is willing to fuck anything but is too chicken to pull the trigger.

Follow my 4 easy steps and you will be a happy man.

1) Buy/Steal a cantalope
2) Cut a small hole in cantalope
3) Microwave cantalope
4) Fuck cantalope

Bolt the headboard to the wall or pull it away. I find that a bed that is making noise isn't providing good consistent leverage. A platform bed from Ikea is good. Futon's are good until the frame invariably fails, they all do with active sex. Putting the mattress on the floor is probably best for both the quality of your thrusting and reducing noise.

As for noisy sex. I kind of disagree with Dan on this one. Some noise filtering through to the neighbors between, I would say 8 and 12 is cool but at some point it becomes a bit too stagy. Like people who sing in public, especially elevators.

Having said that, my partner and I were living next to this guy who had sex with this women about once a month. I imagined it was a prostitute, because otherwise we never saw him with this or any women. We would here them very late, around 3:30 on weekdays usually. We would wake up and get horny and fuck along with them. So as in all cases, context is everything.

I hate apartment buildings where you can hear other people excessively, but unfortunately it's a fact of life in most of them. I can hear my upstairs neighbors sneeze- it's a good thing they don't get laid!

Ahem, anyway, as long as the "noisy sex" people are courteous between 11pm and 7am, as someone else mentioned, they should bang away. 12-6, I'm gonna be banging with a broom.

VAT - check out AVEN at asexuality.org. You may not be ace, but your letter sounds a lot like me before I did the research and came to terms with it.

LAC - the good Lord invented sleeping bags and floors precisely for horny teens with rickety beds.

From Crabby in San Francisco:

I once resorted to desperate measure when living in a thin walled apartment with baboons who got drunk, stomped, and sometimes screwed and moaned at 5 am on a Sunday morning (and blared the TV hoping to cover it up)

I created a sound proofed box for myself and slept with earplugs.

I was going through severe insomnia at the time and desperate measures were needed.

The box worked perfectly.

So did calling the landlord.

High strung perimenopausal women with sharp ears can hear everthing including thread count for the sheets.

So, dont piss us off.

Saw the response from VAT that he's gonna start dating & good for him - but to all those others who talk about how 'waiting is a beautiful thing' and 'virginity is a wonderful gift to give someone' - ugh! Life is short; you ain't gonna be young & pretty forever, so get out there and have some fun!
When in doubt, remember, it's better to regret something you have done, than something you haven't... ;-)
Well... usually.
But sex is never less special just because you (or he, or she) has had sex with others as well...

Loud & clear: my problem was I cranked up the porn so my roomies couldn't hear the click of the Bic or the sizzle of the crack pipe- Fuck 'em, get yours !

VAT - spend less time figuring out how to label yourself and more time doing sexay times. I'm just saying...

Hey Crabby,

Can you provide more details about this box? What a great idea. I may need to build one for myself.

I have been extremely noise sensitive since I was a kid so my sleeping habits tend to vary based on who living next to me. Sometimes earplugs have worked, other times they were useless (like when someone drives by w/ their bass cranked up on their car stereo). It has really sucked sometimes.

NTOM, it's a shame that you and your asshole boyfriend aren't sterile. The unborn child you're carrying deserves better parents than the pathetic two of you!

My girlfriend and I fuck as loud as please all the time, no matter whose around...and we always have. People get used to it, and if you calm down, it becomes very enjoyable listening to their reaction, instead of worrying about it ;)

Ugh. I can't believe you wrote "poor unfortunate fetus who deserves ... his very own miscarriage"

How crass! It is one thing to support the freedom of choice (I do, despite my general disapproval of... 'corrective' abortion) but it is another to wish that an unborn child be terminated, simply because one or both of someone's parents aren't willing or able to be top-notch parents.

Loud and Clear,

I was an RA for two years and now I'm a Hall Director... I'd suggest like so many others, to put the mattress on the floor. Or, better yet, go find somewhere else on campus. When I didn't want my residents to hear me and my boyfriend having sex (I lived across from the communal bathroom), we would go somewhere else, and then the sex was WAY better. Also, it's okay to set up time with your roommates where it's your alone time in the space... maybe each of you get one night a week alone to do whatever in the room. You don't have to tell that you want to be alone so you can screw your boyfriend, I'm sure they'd all appreciate some privacy at some point.

I generally don't care whether anyone hears me having sex, but back when quiet sex was required (i.e. having snuck into the girlfriend's room with her parents only a few thin walls away) plonking the mattress on the floor was a very good solution. Nice to see others found the same thing.

He'll never leave his wife.

NTOM, if you really want this child and will raise him/her with all the love and attention any child requires, disappear from this idiot's life and begin living independently. He doesn't need to know about the pregnancy and informing him of it could lead to a costly custody battle. Forget child support - it's not worth it. Save your money and learn from your mistakes. Plenty of women have successfully raised children on their own in similar situations. It will just take a lot of time and determination on your part.

I know a guy whose landlords (and fellow house-tenants) played "What a Wonderful World" by Iz (Hawaiian singer Israel Kamakawiwo'ole) EVERY DAMN TIME they got it on. The song gives him the creeps to this day.

The live Portishead album is what we used in my college girlfriend's dorm, and it works just fine at masking the noise and still being hot. Also some of the early Blonde Redhead albums, although they may only hold up when you're getting fucked.

Loud & Clear: Crabby got it right, mostly. I too had upstairs neighbors that routinely banged at all hours - they banged, their headboard banged, the bed squeeked, and it cost me HOURS of sleep on more than a few occassions. Sometimes I didn't have the privilege of falling asleep as I'm a frequent sufferer of migraines (earplugs only make my breathing sound louder and there aren't enough pillows to mute the noise without risking suffocation). So on behalf of those that are trying to catch some zzzzzs, please consider some of the aforementioned low level love makin' ideas to keep you and your neighbors (rude & otherwise) happy. Thanks and enjoy!

Loud and Clear,
I live in an apt. building with, sadly, paper-thin walls, and I share a bedroom wall with a sexually active couple; after they woke me several weekend mornings c. 7 a.m., I left them a note asking them if they could either be a little quieter in the mornings or start a little later -- I want them to have their freedom, and I also want my sleep. They kindly complied, and I left them a bottle of wine with a note thanking them for being good neighbors.
Neighbors who complain are not necessarily jealous (I'm happy for mine -- they're a nice couple; I just need sleep), nor are they intentionally listening -- as long as the people next door don't wake me, I don't care if I hear them, and when I do, I turn up my TV or music a little so I can feel as tho I'm giving them a little more privacy.
I think that the "mattress on the floor" and "try to keep it down between 11 p.m. and 7 a.m." suggestions are good ones. Keep in mind that people have different thresholds for any kind of noise (I don't want to be woken by my neighbor's stereo or barking dog -- noise of any kind is the issue, not just sexual noises). And when you move off campus, perhaps try to find a place with thicker walls/better construction so you won't have to worry about this and won't feel inhibited.

Hello Dan,

be on the lookout for the infiltrators of decency...

there's a hole in here somewhere.

LAC --

My junior year of college, my dorm's RA lived across the hall from me. My then-current boyfriend and I enjoyed having rough sex. I'm an opera singer; you can imagine how loud it got.

One night, I got an email from my RA. After that, I luckily managed to avoid any other complaints.

How?

I got a nice pillow and I bit the hell out of it.

That, and I covered my boyfriend's shoulder in hickeys.

If your boy isn't up for nibbling, try the route of the pillow if you're really self-conscious (or, like me, could get in trouble). The best part is that I've found that men love the visual of a woman being so turned on that she has to bite something to control herself.

Good luck!

Beautiful advice to LAC. After reading her letter, that is exactly the remedy that I would have recommended. Reading through your archived columns must be having some sort of positive effect! Thanks.