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800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
Love the advice on the last letter.
Carry on as you were.
Can you imagine the pastor's horror at a vending machine dispensing Peñíscola? OK, it's a fortified seaport in Spain, not a soft drink, but it would be a great name for a gay beverage.
This is some gorgeous writing and insight here. And definitely got me thinking about the origins of my own kink, which I never really did before - although I did learn to accept it, partly because of your column. Bra-effing-vo, Dan.
I'm afraid polyamory isn't a good alternative for this guy. Polyamory is about equality and communication, and that seems like it would be a deal-breaker for this guy. In fact, I think the best way to deal with this is the solution I'm sure his girlfriend would come up with, if she knew.
Do us all a favour, and tell her.
Otherwise, fantastic advice. And yeah, HOPE's friend is a twat.
Her man can't do that yet, he's only comfortable jacking off to porn in private...he can't even admit THAT yet! But, if she follows Dan's sage advice, I'll bet there's a boatload of voyeurism, and even some bust-down-the-door "CAUGHT YA!" scenarios in their future! What fun!
Love the advice to FFF, by the way, Dan. The stuff for HOLIK is great too, but your work-around for FFF shows you spent the effort to come up with something sensitive to FFF's situation. Every week, I think it's great work, but ones like these shine.
I'm guessing a church this fanatical is full of plenty of people who are there for far more than an hour or two a week.
The kids need to have their caffeine. You don't want them to end up as Mormons, now, do you?
This is pretty clear no? Also, friends having different opinions on sex is one thing, but questioning a friend's attitudes on loyalty and honesty is another? Loyalty and honesty are usually pretty important to have in friendships, unless you have some sort of fetish for being effed over...
Plus? 10 soda machines? Wonder what the parishioners average weight is and what the average dental bill is.
I think this is marketable- "An energy shot for the little head!"
Or she doesn't want ANY sex and he's, looking to correct or fill the only shortcoming in his relationship.
Okay, that's probably NOT it with him, but it is with many, many others. And I won't mention any names. (Sigh)
On the first and last question, solid 10s. Second was good too, but minus a point for recycling a post from Slog. You really do have a gift for this Dan. Thank you for Savage Love.
HOPE says 'girlfriend' not 'partner' or 'wife', so DTMFA is probably very on the cards. The moron won't accept that poly would be an option for him. He just wants to cheat.
So we're back to "he's a controlling asshole who wants to sleep around, but won't let his girlfriend".
So, FFF, you got a problem with porn? Great. Stick to your guns and start holding men to a higher standard. Tell them you want to be with someone who loves women and loves you, and that it's simply not possible to do that AND support an industry that reduces them to objects.
You are to come extent reduced to an object in the eyes of your sex partner every time you fuck. I guess that means no more sex ever for you. Wake up, the "industry" is utterly different from what it used to be. Or are you one of those women who thinks that porn actresses/all sex workers have no abilities to think for themselves and act under their own agency? In that case, you are worse than any male (even I dare say a misogynist male) who might be perusing that porn. Jesus, lady, this isn't the 70's. Each woman can make her own decisions.
Many thanks to whoever got Dan laid this week.
or...
Dear Faggot:
Great writing.
Yours,
F.A.N.
As far as the advice is concerned, prety solid, especially for HOLIK. Keep up the good work (and the sporadic difficult words).
Dear HOLIK
Along with Dan's advice, I would keep a weather eye out as cautionary; your boyfriend's behavior is certainly holding back on intimacy with you, and this could be a sign of some deeper mistrust. Good Luck.
Actually, Pepsi is the most popular soft drink in Saudi Arabia. And there's lots of gay action there, too.
If the first girl gets turned on watching the porn her bf watched, why is she going to make him follow all these rules so that he knows that his habits are being watched by her? That's probably the next best or worst thing to him as watching together. She should continue watching his porn, but leave some clues on the computer so that he knows she's been watching too, and also leaving clues that it turns her on and she's been jacking off too (like leaving a vibrator or dildo near the computer). Or doing things with him that might resemble stuff they've watched, or repeating the dirty talk she hears during their sex. Make it more of a cat and mouse game instead of a "here are my rules" game. Maybe he won't catch on, maybe he'll catch on but not let on that he knows because he likes the arrangement, but they're still both getting off, and no one needs to feel bad (unless they get off on feeling bad). Dan's way might work, but just as likely he'll start getting smarter about covering his tracks.
Second, those are Baptists at church, not Catholics with their 40 to 60 minute Masses that may or may not constitute their entire religious observance for the week (sometimes it's only for Xmas and Easter that they go). Church is often an all day thing for the Prots on Sunday, esp for the fundamentalists, and they have lots of other crap and activities they do during the week, like choir practice and youth activities for their kids. It's more of a cult for people who need all that emotional support and community with their worship (fellowship? is that the word), even if they don't worship secondary deities like the Virgin and saints. And they don't drink wine, so they needs they co'cola.
And for the last lady, she might also have got backwards advice from Dan. If I was her, I'd dress provocatively or do arousing things and then refuse sex. If/when the bf responds, I'd tell him I'm too tired or not in the mood that night, and if he continues to bother me with his pervy advances/affection I'm gonna beat his ass and whatnot the next night when I might have the energy. It might or might not work, but the kind of bargain Dan is proposing is just like when women try to bribe their kids into doing stuff they should do anyway. It aint gonna work. The kids end up totally bratty and out of control, because they know they are the ones in control and the brattier they are, the more they can get out of the bribes. I don't think this bf wants to be in control. She doesn't even have to make it a condition in advance (that might not even work if he's not usually interested in vanilla sex). Next time she's beating his ass, she should tell him she's punishing him because she caught him looking at her ass or tits that day, or during the previous week, or for any sort of vanilla affection he might have offered, even if it wasn't much or meant in a sexual way when he did it. Or if she is able to get some vanilla sex out of him, punish him the next time for doing it badly (even if it was good or decent), or just for having the presumption that a dirty lowlife like him can initiate sex without consequences. Or start beating him harder so that he needs more time between sessions to recover (physically or just to get the nerve up again), but in between tell him during vanilla sex that he's gonna pay for that v. sex eventually when his wormy cock and balls are ready for abuse again. Something along those lines.
I don't think she's going to be able to get over her bad feelings and enjoy this unless her boyfriend looks at porn *with* her. He might not need to always have her there, but that's how she could learn to enjoy it (and enjoy it more, if she's actually SEEING him get off) and not feel left out and isolated so much.
I think kinks are great, I've got a streak of BDSM in me (I'm a switch, into a bit of dom and sub), but I don't think that they are *always* healthy.
I had a girlfriend who screamed to me "pull my hair!" when we were fucking. She wanted me to be a bit brutal. And this was tied to her real (And fucked up) feelings of insecurity about herself, and it WASN'T healthy. It was also related to unhealthy aspects in our relationship. When we were on better and more loving terms, she didn't actually want the abuse--she felt better about herself. The relationship ended soon afterwards. I think that if we stayed together we could have brought the kink back--in a healthy way.
But I don't think that the way to deal with the unhealthy dynamic that was manifest in the kink was JUST to indulge the kink more. You can't solve all of your relationship problems through sex. You've got to talk and think.
Of course, Dan did point this out sort of--he asked her to think deeply about her kink and her feelings. So I feel like his answer was half way there in terms of the kink indulgence (better that they do it together sometimes) and half there in terms of the mental processing (better that they think more about the relationship and work on communication and respect, etc).
Good column, though.
But in the end, he just may not be into vanilla anymore no matter what she does. So be ready to make the DTMFA determination.
To declare for Polyamory, on the other hand, is like joining a political party with some strict expectations. Not only are you supposed to be open and public about it and introduce everybody; often you are expected to include you lover in your main relationship. Yuck!
And almost all poly is, in practice, little different from good old-fashioned polygamy where the gals get it on with each other too. Here in Denver a number of biker types are into it: helps turn on the guys as long as there are no other penises involved.
(Come to think of it maybe polygamy has always been like this, where disempowered women create same-sex couples to subvert a patriarchal society: feminist historians' comment?)
I feel your pain. Guys can be SO annoying about female insecurities...
"I'm insecure about ____"
"Oh, okay I won't do it. Why are you insecure?"
"Uhm, you don't have to not do it, it's just that someone lied, and..."
*Guy proceeds to do said thing and lie*
"AUGH! Why did you lie??"
"Because I didn't want to make you upset."
Guy is confused. Girl is upset.
Stop engines, people: A lot of girls really do just want honesty, contrary to popular belief. Please TRY it before making the decision to adopt Dan's "don't-ask-don't-tell" policy.
Polyamory doesn't have a 'rule' where your main partner needs to also be in a relationship with your lover, but lots of people do it that way. Some polys don't. It's basically "multiple intimate relationships, equality (same options for the guys and the gals), and total honesty about what you're up to". And even 'honesty' doesn't need to mean 'every little detail' if people don't want to hear them. Actually, you're expected to protect your LOVER'S privacy, too. Details need permission to share.
Also, don't try to make polygamy okay by somehow suggesting there are feminist overtones in there somewhere. Polygamy comes in two flavours: Polygyny, where the guys get more than one girl, and Polyandry, where the girls get more than one guy. Polygamy is basically about inequality.
And no, the fact that he says "poly isn't for me" doesn't mean this can't be the case. If you find yourself with a person who insists you are monogamous and find it too personally difficult to leave them, then, well ... polyamory isn't going to be in your future. That doesn't mean it doesn't have its appeals.
If we could make electricity out of it, the smugness and cultishness of poly people could well be one of our most valuable renewable resources.
There are heaps of "I have these two guys and I like both of them and HOW DO I CHOOSE?" blog and forum posts out there. We can't help but think "sit them both down and explain polyamory to them - if they both go for it, TAKE BOTH!"
Of course, this may backfire, because there's a risk they're the type to shout "SLUT!" and run for the hills. We want to mainstream this thing, so even if they don't like the idea, they just say "nah sorry, I'm not poly, but let me know if you wanna try mono for a bit."
I wish more polys would just come out and explain it though, instead of writing these oh-so-bewildered "why is everyone else so DENSE?" letters. Then again, I guess you need a question to get published by Dan, and maybe Dan felt like running a quick poly letter.
Funny that he'd go straight off on a tangent so quickly though: is Dan a little polyphobic, deep down? I mean, that's okay, he's afraid of vaginas too and nobody bothers him about that. Dan? It's okay if you're polyphobic. Just keep helping us get the message out! You're a champ.
1) The thing he finds hot about the cheating is the cheating. That is, if it isn't forbidden, it's not (as) hot.
2) He really would like to be poly, but he's with a girl who isn't and figures he's unlikely to meet someone who is, so he denies he's into it.
3) He has gathered from HOPE that being poly means not just having sex with more than one person, but being in love with more than one person. So he's not really rejecting the idea of an open relationship; he's just saying he doesn't want it to be anything more than casual sex. Personally, I could see myself being in an open relationship if my partner were into that (which she isn't), but I really couldn't ever imagine myself being in love with more than one person, so poly per se isn't for me.
Again, I'm not saying that I think one of these is right, just that they're possibilities, no?
Part of it is trauma from what I went through, part of it is that they make the (bad) assumption that I'd disrespect others like that.
Look, it's all fine to talk about the joys of poly, but the reality is that 95% of the women out there will have nothing to do with a guy who won't swear to be monogamous, whether or not he actually follows through. Lots of guys wouldn't mind that much if their SOs got outside nookie every once in a while, as long as they could do the same.
But the women I've known (both as friends and as lovers) have been pretty much unanimously opposed to anything but the strictest monogamy. Given the choice between passionate love with occasional outside dalliances, and a tepid but faithful relationship, they'll consciously choose the latter.
To be honest, I've never understood why sticking your cock in someone else is considered the height of betrayal. You can treat someone like shit in every conceivable way short of physical abuse, and still not be publicly demonized to the degree that cheaters are.
Bottom line, anyone who doesn't at least pay lip service to the monogamous ideal will drastically reduce the number of available and attractive partners. So, some people cheat, some people don't cheat but resent feeling trapped, and some people find a way to make peace with the whole thing.
The key is mutual consent. If both parties agree that either one can have sex outside of the relationship, but they don't want to know about it, that's not cheating.
______________________________________
#55/Rophuine: "Polyamory [is] basically multiple intimate relationships, equality (same options for the guys and the gals), and total honesty about what you're up to."
I understand that honesty/mutual consent is an essential part of polyamory. I also understand that equality is part of it, in that both the man and the woman (in a hetero relationship) have the same options. But that's same options in theory. In reality, I'd think the woman has far greater options. I think it's much easier for the woman to get laid than for the man because, unless she's hideous or grossly overweight, any woman is always able to find countless willing male partners for NSA sex, whereas it's not that easy for a man to find willing female partners for NSA sex.
I'm sure you're approximately right with that 95% figure. Monogamy is more important to women than it is to men. However, I find that ironic in light of the fact that it's much easier for women to get laid than it is for men. You'd think it would be women who don't want monongamy, not men.
"To be honest, I've never understood why sticking your cock in someone else is considered the height of betrayal. You can treat someone like shit in every conceivable way short of physical abuse, and still not be publicly demonized to the degree that cheaters are."
I don't agree with your contention that cheaters are demonized more than people who treat their partner "like shit in every conceivable way short of physical abuse." I think cheaters are selfish cowards but think that people who treat their partner like shit are much worse and my guess is that the majority of people would agree.
Oh, and in my experience, women are usually much more into the idea of poly than men. Men get all "Woo, I can fuck other people!" but shy away from all the scary talking-about-feelings and interpersonal skills that poly needs to work.
If you're talking about NSA sex, you mean swinging or open relationships, not polyamory. Polyamory is as much about the strings as the sex. Also, I get approached by drunk girls in clubs 'after some' pretty much as often as my female SO gets approached by drunk guys. Don't discount the libido of a bunch of drunk college girls.
_______________________________________
#42/maria-sofia: "Porn culture is yet another branch of the imperialistic, colonizing, "civilized" machine dominating the planet."
Porn exists (along with prostitution and strip clubs) because of the imbalance in sexual demand & supply. The demand for sex by men is far greater than the supply of sex by women, so the sex industry fills that gap.
Pop is STRICTLY a PM drink? Really?
Where in the fuck did you learn that kind of retarded shit? Are you going to tell us next that milk is only for the mornings and only to be put on cereal?
I so <3 you for this phrase, which is the snappiest thing I have read on this or any other subject since I read this:
http://open.salon.com/blog/sirenitalake/…
which was admittedly only two weeks ago.
http://open.salon.com/blog/sirenitalake /2009/06/05/why_i_hate_monogamy
I had an ex whom cheated constantly on everyone she had been with. I gave her polyamoury and she slept with one other pwerson the entire time we were together...a friend I brought in for a threesome. She told me the fun was taken out of it.
"He's actually had difficulty staying hard before if we're "just" having missionary."
Perhaps it's an all or nothing situation? They either have kinky sex or incredibly boring vanilla? There's ways to spice vanilla sex up and certainly a neat lot of thing to do without going into bondage.
Sorry, but that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. While I'm sure that's true of some fringe minority, most cheaters I've known have cheated because they wanted sex with someone else without a breakup/divorce.
Seriously. It really is that simple.
Still selfish and stupid, but for a completely different reason.
Category Two:
See Jon and Kate Plus 8.
A counselor-friend once made the comment that whomever controls the sex in the relationship has the power. Surely men don't always control the sex in their marriages.