Columns Apr 22, 2010 at 4:00 am

All Apologies

Comments

1
Right on with the advice, Dan, especially to FART. If someone farted in my mouth and they had the gall to laugh at me, it'd be over and done with then and there. Like you said, that sort of response can only come after you've been with someone for ages.

As for CLG, sorry, but I do judge her on the fact that she tried to pass her cheating off as rape. Accusing people of rape is a pretty serious offense, much worse of the actual cheating, not only because of how it discredits real rape victims but also (as you rightly pointed out) because of the repercussions it could have for the accused. Crying "rape!" to save one's own skin is a really gross thing to do, and there's good reason her ex hasn't contacted her.
2
Great column Dan! And as a daughter who’s Dad likes to hit on and hook up with girls my age, she will get past it. But no details please FDAKB!
3
FDAKB could benefit from looking at things from his daughter's perspective.

How would he feel if she started dating one of his close friends? Chances are he wouldn't be as understanding as he wants his daughter to be.
4
Doesn't FART get any credit for his hilarious pen name?
5
I agree with Dan that FART's crime is not his reaction to the "incident," as he was clearly trying to minimize the awkwardness with humor. The real problem is his inability to read social cues. His partner was obviously horrified, so the laughter and flippancy just made him look insensitive. Which he may or may not be, but this guy doesn't yet know him well enough to know if this was an isolated incident of assholery. I don't know if I'd have dumped FART, but it would probably have bothered me.

As for FDAKB, he doesn't mention exactly how old his daughter and her friend are, but based on the information provided (the girlfriend told FDAKB about how much money his daughter spent shopping), it would seem that he's still financially responsible for her in some way. So these girls are probably pretty young. If I were in my late teens or early twenties and my FATHER was cruising my friends, I would be totally disgusted and creeped out. Good luck getting her to feel comfortable with that. Provided his girlfriend is of age, FDAKB can of course do as he pleases, but he needs to accept a damaged relationship with his daughter as the price he's going to pay. If he's not willing to do that, he'd better get a new girlfriend.
6
Not excusing the behaviour of the farter, but some people use laughter as a tool to ease a stressful situation. The LW might want to delve into this bit of his psyche and make some changes henceforth so that he won't make this same mistake again.

As for breaking up via text message, this is such a coward's way out. I do not understand how anyone can be intimate with someone, then turn around and electronically dump them. This is the lowest of the low. He needs to see Oz for a new heart.
7
I disagree Dan, with your advice to FART. I think humour is perfectly acceptable in this situation. Am I old fashioned to think that rimming, while enjoyable, is not the most respectable past time? A respectful response is difficult to muster, I would have thought, considering the circumstances. I think Mr Rimmer has a right to be annoyed etc, but he lacks a sense of humour. I woud suggest Mr Rimmee keep being semi- innapropriate and when someone comes along who finds this equally funny (I do) then that's Mr Rimmee's match.
8
What everyone needs to realize in the FDAKB situiation is that he's essentially ended the friendship between his daughter and her friend. They have to build a new relationship, one that has far less discussion of intimate details, and little to no discussion of who they're dating. Once they can build a new, more distanced relationship, they can all be more comfortable, but it will be awkward until then.
9
Like yelling "EW! EWWWW! EW!" is so socially sensitive.
10
"They don't cover this in sex ed, I realize, but the average idiot knows there's just one thing a person wants from someone who's just "unexpectedly" farted in his mouth, even just a little, and it's not an e-card. It's a lengthy, abject, mortified, immediate, and heartfelt apology."

*No*: you aplogize for things that are your fault and not accidents. Assuming the fart was an accident, FART's response was fine.

Should FART have been more sensitive to the cues his partner was giving off? Maybe, but the cues his partner gave off were indicative of "whiny bitch". You don't demand an apology from someone who has just mortified themselves.
11
So, CLG, you're older and wiser now. So is your ex. I'm sure he thinks of you from time to time, but to be honest, i bet he's glad to be rid of you, since you cheated and lied. Not the best way to end a relationship. You moved on; so did he. Leave him alone now.

You say you're happily married, yet thinking of contacting your old flame. Huh. Stop deluding yourself into thinking that he would want to be friends with you! Stop deluding yourself into thinking that your husband would want anything to do with your ex. Think of your children, CLG, and don't place them anywhere but ahead of your desires to rekindle any type of relationship with the ex. If you are happily married, CLG, you will leave the ex in the past, where he belongs.

You seem to have too much spare time on your hands, CLG. Go do some volunteer work to take up your spare moments so that you don't have any time to think those stupid thoughts of reconnecting with any ex, and concentrate all your love and devotion on your husband and children, and keep those "happy marriage" fires burning.
12
I think the heart of the matter is: was it a smelly fart? If you let off a stinker into someone's mouth, laughter is probably not the best medicine. On the other hand, if it was a neutral fart, freaking out is a huge over-reaction.
13
I'm taking FART's side on this one. Sounds like this little Rimmer is a total queen who takes sex way too seriously. Rimmee farted, apologized, and then showered Rimmer with affection to make up for it, laughing off the awkwardness. I'd like to think that's the response any reasonable person who is comfortable with rim jobs would give. In any case, it's not like this guy accidently took a shit in his mouth. I've had buddies fart in my face before as a joke, and I don't queen out over it.

As for failing to read and properly respond to Rimmer's emotions, how does one respond to emotions that are dramatic and exaggerated? Sounds like these two aren't a good match anyways.

"A lengthy, abject, mortified, immediate, and heartfelt apology." Seriously, Dan?
14
I agree with Blighty (@4)! Flatulent Anilingus Result: Termination should definitely get points for that name!
15
Sex can, and should, be funny from time to time. I remember the first time I queefed in front of my fiance. We both laughed for a good 15 minutes before we got back into it. Another time I bought a package of colored condoms, and the condom matched the sheets he had on his bed, making his cock play the ol' disappearing act. We had fun with that for awhile before we finally got back to sex.

I gotta take FART's side here, a little humor after something embarassing like that isn't a bad thing. It's not like FART excreted on his lover's head while cackling like a maniac.
16
I also wonder if Fart's "boyfriend" wouldn't have dumped him anyway. After all, he said he was seeing other people and they only had 3 dates. Don't people usually date longer than that before having sex and expecting a commitment? (I mean, assuming that the goal is a relationship and not a one-night stand or a friends-with-benefits deal.)
17
@7: Am I old fashioned to think that rimming, while enjoyable, is not the most respectable past time?

My thoughts exactly! Sex is pretty hilarious when you think about it, especially when your mouth is on someone's ass. FART says he apologized through his laughter and then -- most importantly -- pulled his partner in for a kiss right away, showing a level of comfort with bodily functions his partner perhaps does not share. Sounds exactly right to me, and hopefully FART will find someone in the future who has a similar laidback approach to things.

And is FDAKB actually upset that his daughter isn't as close to his new girlfriend as she used to be? I like my stepmom, but I don't treat her like one of my regular friends. No matter how accepting the daughter eventually is of the new relationship, her friend is not really her friend anymore.
18
You don't think the rimmer was using 'the incident' and the rimee's reaction to it as excuses to get out of a relationship that just wasn't doing it for him?
19
I was under the impression that when you put your tongue to another person's anus, you were willingly accepting the risks. That is why rimming is a no go zone for me, on both receiving and giving ends. Blech.
20
FART: Laughing and treating the situation like it's no big deal, so you don't have to slink off to different rooms and ruin the night? Fine. The main source of people's embarrassment is other people's embarrassment. An e-card? Ew, I wouldn't even want one of those for my birthday.

FDAKB: There's only one thing for the daughter to do. Start dating one of the father's colleagues or bosses.
21
Anyone who puts their mouth within 5cm of their partners asshole and is "mortified" when an accidental fart occurs shouldn't be rimming anyone.

Although he didn't read the situation well, FART's reaction seemed like a very affectionate, embarrassed laugh followed by more apologetic affection. I probably would've reacted just as he did.
22
@11
You are delusional. People can and do apologize for things that are not in their control all the time. They do so because it helps smooth over awkward/embarrassing/hurtful/disgusting social situations.

Moreover, we know that farting, as in FART's case, is not entirely involuntary. You DO have some measure of control...you can feel a fart building up most of the time. BTW, your body is...YOUR BODY. You need to take a little bit of responsibility for it, even when it doesn't quite work out right.

11, your standard would end up in stupid situations:
"Oops, I accidentally tripped you! Sorry but that's hilarious! No, I won't give you a real apology because it was an accident!"
"Oops, I accidentally peed the bed! Sorry, but that's hilarious! No I won't give you a real apology because it was an accident!"
"Oops, I just ran over your dog! That wasn't hilarious but I'm not really all that sorry because it was an accident!"
23
I think FART handled the situation as gracefully as one could under such circumstances, and should just keep looking for a more suitable match. Good riddance, indeed.

I would, however, be TOTALLY SKEEVED if my Dad started dating one of my friends. Sorry, but there's plenty of other fish in the sea; catch one who's not my friend. Totally uncool. Gross gross gross. More gross than a fart in the mouth.
24
Funny that CLG should creep me out the most in this column.

So when she was with her ex-boyfriend, she looked up a previous ex-boyfriend and had sex with him? Now she's married, and thinking about looking up her ex-boyfriend? I see where this is heading.
25
I think FDAKB has a right to be upset, at least for awhile. Aside from the obvious creepiness factor, there's the fact that she's probably shared all kinds of deeply personal information with her friend - things she wouldn't at all like her dad to know. And since her friend has already proved untrustworthy in a small way, there's no guarantee she won't spill the beans in a bigger way.
26
FDAKB is selfish. You're a parent, and your relationship with your daughter should come first. If you really valued your daughter like a decent father should, you wouldn't be sniffing around her friends in the first place. She is right to distance herself from you. It can be very painful, but when a parent causes more grief than good in your life, you have to create space and start protecting yourself from further emotional turmoil.
27
What the hell do you expect when you stick your tongue in someone's asshole???
28
Now THAT’S a column! One, two three right outta the park. Love ‘em Dan. Thanks for this

Morales of the stories

1 – e-cards do not an apology make

2 – cheating and lying while being married are good reasons not to “still know each other” with an ex.

3 – there’s no accounting for taste – but there is for bad taste, and banging your daughter’s friend behind her back while coercing her into being “comfortable” with lies and betrayal goes beyond mere passive aggression and straight to asshole narcissism. What you’re the ONLY one allowed to be happy on godz green earth?!?!
29
I rarely disagree with you, but I don't think FART did so wrong. If you can't deal with the risk of something nasty, especially a momentary loss of control of the sphincter you are vigorously stimulating, then don't stick your tongue in somebody's ass. Perhaps FART could have overdone the sensitivity a bit more, but I think it was well short of a final deal-breaker.
30
You might consider NOT sticking your tongues in one another's butt until, as Dan puts it, "after you've demonstrated to the person you're dating that you're a fundamentally decent, considerate person, worthy of their time and affections."
That would pretty well deal with FART's non-problem.
31
I think FART sounds like a hilarious, smart, funny guy who someone else will be lucky to have. An "I'm sorry I farted in your mouth" e-card is one of the funniest things I've ever heard of, and if someone sent me one of those (and I otherwise liked the person enough after 3 dates to want to continue seeing them) I would be charmed by the self-effacing humor of it. You're better off without that guy, FART.
32
I'm a straight woman, and my experience with rimming is somewhat limited. However, while I think the idea of someone farting in my mouth is really really gross, I also think that putting your mouth in the vicinity of someone's asshole would put you at a reasonable risk of that happening. People fart involuntarily at inconvenient times - that's just how life goes. The last time my mouth was anywhere near my ex's butt, I recall being very aware that he could let one rip and I'd be getting it full in the face. I actually thought the idea was pretty funny. (Ok, I'm a straight woman with a 13-year-old boy apparently trapped inside me.)

As someone who tends to laugh at life's grossness in bed, I kind of am more appalled by the reaction of FART's sex partner here than anything else. The last thing I would ever want to do would be to make someone feel ashamed or uncomfortable over something they no doubt couldn't control. I can't imagine how I would feel if someone started shrieking "EW EW EW" in bed because I had a natural biological function. If I was the one reacting (because it is kinda gross), I'd apologize for how I handled it later.

I'm totally disgusted by CLG. I actually think Dan was way too lenient. This is a woman who needs some serious psychological help.

As the daughter of a particularly skanky man who would LOVE to be dating one (or all) of my friends, I can't comment on the last letter - my biases would totally warp anything I could say. (Though I will say this - Did you really have to go there? Millions of women and the only one you wanted to date was someone your daughter considered a close friend? Your happiness hinged on this one human being? - OK, done.)
33
If you're not married, it's not cheating! It's "physically weighing your options."
34
to the father.... FUCK off! your daughter will never be OK with your girlfriend (and all the other ones that will come after, probably even younger)... and specially not with one that was HER FRIEND! at least you should have picked up someone she did not know, creep. she might just be polite to you and your gf, that's all you can expect really, how selfish are you?
old man are just disgusting. showing you daughter that you want to fuck someone like her is not a good way of making her comfortable.
like many told you already, think of her fucking one of your mates. not so cool eh?
35
I am just alarmed at the "inconsequential" information FDAKB's girlfriend let go. His daughter bought an expensive dress and she felt in the position to tell the father? Since when did she acquire the right to judge on family finances? Isn't it a bit early to be the stepmother who wants the money all for herself? I'd run for the hills if I were FDAKB.
36
I've only given the occasional rim job and never had anyone fart in my mouth. Nonetheless I'm surprised a person could be so offended by a fart while simultaneously making direct tongue-to-anus contact. It just seems like once you have your tongue on/in someone's asshole you've pretty much decided to give them a pass for any grossness related to their butt.
37
I think that the response to FART was a little too harsh. Sure maybe he can be accused of not picking up on a few cues, and maybe he deserved to be told so sternly, but being dumped seems over the top. He farted, he did not drop a load. Dumping him because he tried to make light of the situation thinking that it was best to remove drama from it is way too much.

Still, I think its all for the best. If he's the kind of person who freaks out that easily, I don't think he's a good match for FART. Find someone a little less antsy.
38
@ 34
"showing you daughter that you want to fuck someone like her is not a good way of making her comfortable. "

Bingo. Wtf did he expect?
39
JrzWrld (32) - Hi, Chelsea! Go ahead and spill the beans on Dad!
40
Dan is right on FART: the point isn't at all how HE thought it was oh-so-funny. The point is that he completely ignored his partner's reaction and just bulled ahead with a light "that's SO funny!" theme. Clearly, the person who got farted on didn't think so from the beginning (and Jesus Fucking Christ people, rimming is NOT an invitation to fart in someone's mouth! What is wrong with you all?!). So, do-over: is the correct response, even if you think it's hilarious, to laugh at the other person and pull a "c'mon, you know that was funny!" or is the correct response to sincerely apologize because, y'know, you actually care how the other person feels and they have clearly indicated those feelings to you? FART's sin is that he decided it was funny and never considered how the other guy felt, and then kept hammering on how goddamn funny it was when said other guy made it clear that he thought just the opposite. Such a dolt gets broken up with via text message because, hey, he doesn't get it anyway, so why bother talking to him?
Bottom line: yes, FART is responsible for his own butt. Yes, farts happen. NO, the right response is not "hmm...what do I, the farter, think about this." The right response is "hey, you OK? No? Well, let me apologize then..."
I guess some people on this thread also find it hilarious when others trip and fall, or get whacked in the face by accident, since "hey, that was funny. What? You're not laughing? You suck!" Right?
41
@22, the "delusion" you're perceiving in @11's note likely derives from the fact that @11 was addressing CLG, the LW who's seeking absolution for cheating and making a false rape accusation, not FART, the one who gassed his rimmer. Applicable advice differs considerably, no?
42
I'm with #6 on the poor fart episode. Better he find out now that the guy he's with doesn't have the same sort of humor before he's accused of being insensitive. The same kind of thing happens with women all the time ("pussy farts"), and straight guys handle it without blinking. Humor gets some of us through some pretty awkward situations and others just sort of freeze up.

As far as the guy dating his daughter's girlfriend - most women don't want to hear about their father's sex life. And especially in your 20s, women spend a lot of time going over details of their lives/sex lives. There's only so much you can share with a friend who's dating your dad - and information flows uphill, too, so the girlfriend can go back and tell him things. Maybe not to tattle, just to share, as women do with their boyfriends. That's another reason the daughter doesn't feel comfortable with the situation.

I'm not saying he should break up with his much-younger girlfriend but DON'T BE SURPRISED if the situation NEVER improves. The daughter lost someone she could confide in and she may never want that situation again with this friend even if the two split. And as Dan says, she has a right to feel this way.
43
1. I completely agree w/27. If you're gonna stick your tongue in a guy's asshole, where do you come off bitching if he farts? Ridiculous!

2. If CLG is happily married & has 2 kids, why in the world is she even thinking about the ex? When does she get the time?

3. FDAKB seems to be living the "American Beauty" scenario, and my advice to him would be, there are a gazillion women out there; why don't you try dating one who isn't your daughter's friend?

44
@10 "Sorry" means "I wish that didn't happen to you" - accident or not. Are you unfamiliar with using that word with people who have lost loved ones?

My 3 year old has more emotional maturity...
45
@ 41 ...thank you for your supportive message. I had to read through #22's post twice, thinking, whaaaaaaaaat?? Maybe #22 needs glasses?

As for the fart episode, i've re-read the LW's side of things, i tend to agree with posters here who disagree with Dan. Making like you are grossed out when you yourself have decided to lick someone's butt is beyond ridiculous.

If you haven't both laughed and cried (and everything in between) during sex by the time you're 30, then you're missing out on the profoundness of the act.

I stick with my earlier statement about the "EWWWW guy" breaking up via text messaging, which i find even more disgusting than an accidental misplaced fart. Electronic heartbreak is such crass, immature behaviour. I'm kind of surprised that Dan didn't comment on it.
46
FDAKB = Drama Prince. Dump the kid, apologize for being a creep to the daughter and get another girlfriend.
47

Dan really whiffed on the FART issue. As it were.
48
Ladies, for those skeeved out at the idea of your dad dating your friends, grow up.

Your dads are men, and men want to get with your friends--the good looking ones, anyway. Accept it. Just because men age to 50-something does not mean they stop finding 25 year olds really, really hot. Your attempts to desexualize your father into some asexual avuncular dude is bullshit.

And let's put another myth to crypt: Men do not find middle-aged women really, really hot just because they love them and married them 30 years ago. So, no, your mom's plumping ass and crows feet are not driving dad wild. (And spare me the outlier-on-the-bell-curve Demi Moore cries of the heart, okay?)

Given that, when your middle-aged, divorced father finds a mutual connection and happiness with a gal, whether your age or not, it does not make him anything except a man. Stamping your foot and talking about how it skeeves you shows you--not him--have a problem to deal with.

Guys who freak about about their mom dating anyone are similarly immature and need to STFU.
49
That LW who cheated on a boyfriend, cried rape, and now wants to revisit her horrifying behavior by calling up the victim, er, ex-boyfriend? She needs to stop.

That LW is a runny, smelly, shitty, shitty, shitty piece of shit. Seriously. Crying "rape" to avoid the consequences of having cheated?!?!?!?

Wow. Just wow. Sociopathic shit right there, folks.

Lady, leave that ex-boyrfriend alone. He is well clear of you, and better for it. Try and make things right by doing something right for the larger world. You can start by *not* contacting ex-boyfriends who likely want nothing to do with your crazy, harmful self.

Then go get some therapy, you narcissistic monster.
50

22:

LTR.
51
FDAKB - As a 20-something, I'd be mortified if my dad was emotionally immature enough to consider someone my age an equal partner, and nauseated if he was pedophilic enough to bang someone my age. While I wouldn't want to say something like that to a family member, I'd probably cut them both out of my life immediately. So, your daughter sounds like she's handling you being a creep rather well.
52
I dissagree with Dan about FART.

@15, You said it best.

FART, you're fine babe. You did nothing wrong. It just wasn't a match. Good riddance for sure.

(e-cards are kind of lame though)

53
FART, the bottom line is your date didn't like you enough to stick around. Had my gf farted in my face on date #3, I would have been pretty grossed out, but even after an inappropriate laugh and e-card, I would have forgave and forgot, because I would have liked her enough to want us to move past the incident. Your fart was his first excuse (and a really big one) to get out of the budding relationship, so he took it.
54
@51

Woah. Do you know what paedophillia is? There was a column about it a while back - maybe you need to look at that? Dating someone younger than you does NOT equate paedophillia. My dad is in a relationship with someone 21 years younger than him (exactly the same number of years as between my mum and myself, actually). She's 23, he's 44. She makes him happy, he makes her happy, it's all good. The age isn't - or shouldn't be - an issue. The issue is the fact that it's one of her FRIENDS he's dating, which pretty much means she loses a friend.
55
@48 The problem isn't that he's an older man dating a younger female. The problem is that he's dating his daughters close friend. If you can't figure out the difference, then well, grow up yourself?

And heck, men might be attracted to hot young twenty-somethings, but few know how to go about that in a non-creepy way. You are not a hot young twenty-something, and do not know how creepy middle-age men (men in general for that matter) can be.
56
@48 - Were it me, my problem would not be with the age difference. Couldn't care less about that, though some of us actually do continue to appreciate and be attracted to our partners throughout the course of the natural aging process.

My problem would be with a parent having a romantic/intimate/sexual relationship with a friend of mine. That would cross a major, major, major line. I would definitely feel invaded and unsafe, and it would affect the parent/child relationship for me for a long, long time.

I feel strongly that parents and children should respect boundaries with each other as far as getting involved with personal friends. Kids shouldn't date their parents' friends; parents shouldn't date their kids' friends.

At the end of the day, if someone is in love, in lust, or for whatever reason feels they have to cross this boundary, fine for them. Simply, I feel that they do it at the expense of the comfortability and safety of the parent/child relationship.

Certainly, there are kids who DON'T feel as I do about their parents and would be okay about it - but a parent can't know that without asking first, and the failure of this father to ask first was a major one. Though I really can't imagine it in reality, were this ever me as a parent, no matter how I felt about a friend of my child, I would never in a million years consider taking it past friendship without having an honest conversation with my child first.

In this case, it's clear to me that the dad values his relationship with his girlfriend more than his relationship with his daughter. He should not be condemned, but he should definitely not expect her to be comfortable.
57
@48 The problem isn't that he's an older man dating a younger female. The problem is that he's dating his daughters close friend. If you can't figure out the difference, then well, grow up yourself?

And heck, men might be attracted to hot young twenty-somethings, but few know how to go about that in a non-creepy way. You are not a hot young twenty-something, and do not know how creepy middle-age men (men in general for that matter) can be.
58
I disagree with the fart issue. What happened was funny. He said he tried to stifle his laughter but it was just a naturally funny thing. That doesn't mean he's insensitive and inconsiderate. No one here Dan included has ever come across a funny situation all of a sudden and had to try to suppress laughter, a gut reaction? It was an accident.

And if you rim you have to expect that a fart or something worse might accidentally pop out. I mean you're sticking your tongue in and around the a**hole. We all know what comes out of there. You're willing to taste s*** BUT NOT A FART. Why are you surprised when a butt does what a butt is supposed to do? I think the rimmer overreacted.
59
@42 Pussy farts aren't really comarable to ass farts, since pussy farts reallya re just plain old air, while ass farts are stinky methane and other horridness.
Just sayin'
60
@48 So what's the window now for being considered hot? 18 to 25 and you're done, now step aside and allow the latest crop of hotties to take over?
61
The thought of finding oneself dating, or marrying, someone like CLG is truly terrifying. I wonder about her husband.
62
@57 - "And heck, men might be attracted to hot young twenty-somethings, but few know how to go about that in a non-creepy way. You are not a hot young twenty-something, and do not know how creepy middle-age men (men in general for that matter) can be."

Please. Like most twentysomething women apparently do these days, you probably find men above the age of 40 to be gross for simply existing and still having a libido. Payback will come when you're older yourself.
63
@48, that's some righteous stuff. But as an uncle, I must object to your equating "avuncular" and "asexual." Asexual with the nephew or niece - I'm totally with you up to that point, but even in that respect, "avuncular" can hardly be MORE asexual than "parental." In either case the sexuality isn't directed to (or, frankly, flaunted around) the child or nephew/niece as the case may be.
64
@48: What you've described isn't a man, it's a vampire, leeching the youth out of people too stupid to know any better than tossing them aside. Or getting tossed aside when they get laid off and have to become a Wal Mart greeter, or start using a walker.
65
1.) Dan often says that he doesn't believe there is "one true love" out there for everyone but rather you can find happiness with all sorts of people. As many people stated, there are other fish in the sea. So with the dad dating his daughters "good friend" it very well is crossing lines. Chances are they WILL NOT last very long. Knowing that, he also must have known that his dad would be upset and that it had potential to ruin their friendship or else they wouldn't have kept it secret for so long.

2.) I am a young woman who does not have a lot of female friends. I have an easier time making friends with men, however I do have that one close best/good female friend. A girl that I can share my secrets to and vice versa. Go out and have fun with, and double date with as well. If she started to date my father, which I would be highly uncomfortable with and that would be a tremendous loss to me if it ended our friendship.

3.) On that note but from a different take, my good female friend mentioned, has a problem with being faithful to men and jumps from relationship to relationship quite often. Even if my father had the "best of intentions" with her, I would know if she didn't with him. I would feel loyalty to each person and I would stay out of their relationship so that I didn't share things that could ruin their budding relationship if this time it was different and they were "in love". Because you just never know. So I feel the daughter was right in just backing away and letting them go at it, yet still making her feelings known.
66
FART was in the right. His boy should loosen up.
67
and anyway, the boy was seeing other guys so not much of a loss really
68
Dan is pretty spot on with FART. It's not that he farted inside the guy's mouth - it's that he essentially made a non-apology by laughing the whole time.

He then followed it up with a funny e-card?

Third date? Yeah, I'd dump him too. One of my big concerns would be that he would find it "funny" enough to do again.

I've rimmed/been rimmed plenty of times. And you know what? No farting by either party. What is with you people who seem to imply he should have somehow expected this?

69
I don't see the message FART got as totally dumping him -- I think there's still room there to write back, apologize now, and ask to see the guy again (if FART wanted to.)
I haven't seen anyone else write this though, so I guess the message here is if you dump me by text message, you're going to have to be clearer than "I'm not sure about this..."
70
These gals simpering about how dad cannot date their age-group/friends because, well, for some reason related to said gals' feelings of butthurtedness have some personal issues to address.

If my parent dated an adult friend of mine, and they were both happy and fine with it, what more do I have to say about it? Nothing, because it is not really my business, any more than my parent could depth-charge any partner choices of mine.

It is called adulthood, folks, embrace it. Others get the same choices you have.

(Oh, and 51, pedophilia? You need help.)
71
Ohoho, #48 just WISHES he could get a piece of that 20-year-old ass.
72
Dan's reaction to FART seems absurdly extreme. Inability to read social cues? That's harsh. At worst, I would say these two are incompatible because they take different approaches to awkward situations. But to call FART insensitive or clueless seems harsh to me. He used humor to aleviate the tension of the situation, and did show sincere regret. That's a totally appropriate reponse that shows emotional maturity on his part. As for the man who dumped FART, he will be a very lonely man if he rejects people for such small "crimes." But then, perhaps he wants to be alone and used the farting as a way to excape and put the blame on FART.
73
I think this is the first time I've disagreed with Dan. I also think he was too hard on FART. Really, where was the harm? Sure, maybe he should have been more apologetic, but if you can't laugh at a fart what can you laugh at? I suspect the guy just wasn't that into him, and/or he needs to take himself a little less seriously.

I feel bad for FDAKB's daughter, and I think Dan's advice was spot on. My father has flirted with my friends and dated women younger than me, and it does kind of suck. It does seem an abuse of trust that the daughter's private business--things she'd only tell a friend--would become the subject of pillow talk between her friend and her dad. But you can't impose your will on others. Dad can't make daughter ok with the situation. Best he can do is man up- don't whine, don't be sheepish, respect the daughter's privacy, and don't expect ever to have the kind of father-daughter relationship you think you deserve. And daughter can't make dad end the relationship. Nice if they could all move on from this someday, but no guarantee.

After one of my dad's relationships with a much younger woman, I (aged 23 at the time) asked him "what would you have done if I brought home a 58 year-old guy?" He said he'd have gone ballistic. We can't help what we feel, even if we know we're doing something stupid.
74
My father dates a woman who is only a year older than I am. For me, there are just some things that you never get used to. Sometimes it feels like he may as well want to fuck me. It also reinforces the sad truth: I'm considered too old by men my own age.

-L
75
I think FART wants a relationship where he and his partner can recognize and laugh at the often gross reality of being a human, whereas his partner wants to be with a man who never farts and who acts like he shits heart-shaped travel soaps. The fart itself may have prevented a protracted and ultimately doomed relationship.

Because your genital muscles are intrinsically linked to our anal sphincter, during sexual arousal a tiny fart might slip out simply because you are relaxed and engorged down there. Not saying that I would personally find an e-card adorable, but you can't start a relationship walking on eggshells and I applaud FART's natural and self-assured response.
76
Ok so I'm not sure about the advice to FART. I think he laughed from being embarassed - not that he laughed at him. That explains the "trying to apologize" part.

I don't think FART was a jerk but I don't blame the guy for dumping him. Personally, after the intial shock and disgust wares off, I would laugh it off and tell him that next time he better warn me. Then make an amazing amount of fart jokes at his expense.
I understand that some people are very uneasy about gas and don't ever find it funny. I'm willing to bet that they never found Ren and Stimpy and some of Family Guy very funny either.
77
Once, during orgasm, my girlfriend peed in my mouth. A lot. I wanted her to have a great orgasm, so I kept going... repositioning my mouth so as not to ingest it. She apologized profusely, laughed about it, and apologized more. I told her it was completely fine, not at all her fault, and didn't bother me in the least. Of course it bothered me, but knowing that she was apologetic gave me the security to know that she really and truly did not mean to do it, and will make an effort to avoid it in the future.

The apology was important. I didn't want her to feel bad, and did everything I could to reassure her that I was a-ok, but what can I say... the apology mattered.
78
CLG is a piece of shit! I guess she believes in the good ol' feminist moto of "A man falsely accused of rape can benefit from the experience."

And yet more people are going off about and ripping apart a man that is dating someone that is just younger than him instead?!?

No, being gay is not a choice, because if it was, I think a lot more guys would be since they know that they're only 1 lie away from being put in jail and having their lives ruined just so an innocent little "victim" can remain pure in the eyes of society.

I really wish more women would be falsely accused of rape and found guilty until proven innocent...just so they can get a taste of it.
79
Ok, so maybe not "expected it", but certainly he must have been aware that it was a possibility. I think that to put your tongue up someone's ass and then be *that* freaked out by a small, involuntary escape is just weird. And while pussy farts are not really the same composition, and a good deal more common, the idea is the same. It's like an unexpected belch during an aria, ya know? It's a surprise, a mood-breaker, and a little embarrassing, and so some people (like me) might find it funny, in a perverse-humor kind of way, and some people find it disgusting and inexcusable. Whether FART found it funny or horrible, he didn't really seem to value his partner's feelings.
Having said that... no one would break up with someone that they were really into over something like that. (Via text, no less). I have a feeling that even if FART had not, you know, farted, or had acted Deeply and Truly Sorry, that short affair wasn't as promising as FART seems to think. Three dates, you're getting to know each other, everything is really great, and you break over that?
Something smells, and it ain't FART. The 'dating some other people' thing is a clear tip-off. The fart was just a handy excuse.
Regarding FDAKB, I'm 45 and work at a university. There are many hot, hot early twenties young men that I am very, very attracted to... until they start to talk. Whether or not us elderly types find sweet young somethings desirable is hardly even a question. It's that fact that FDAKB has found his emotional and intellectual match in someone with decades less experience that seems kinda pathetic. And the other fact that he has more or less thrust his sex life into his daughter's social life. Speaking as someone who both has parents and is one, ...ew.
Let go of the issue about the age difference, and remember that there are thousands of girls his daughter's age that she doesn't know. He could date one of them, right? But in order to meet them socially, he'd have to risk looking like a skeegy old dude hitting on young women half his age.
(Which, you know... if the toupee fits...)
The reason he's with *this* girl is that her being his daughter's friend gave him socially acceptable access. And the fact that he's found his match in a woman half his age speaks volumes to me about how much he's grown as a person since he was twenty himself.
80
@41

No, you're right. I meant @10. Just a typo.
81
@ 77,
Uh, you sure it was peeing, and not female ejaculation? You can't take the lady's word for it because ejaculating feels like peeing for the woman experiencing it. Orgasm causes involuntary contractions of pelvic muscles, so it's pretty impossible to pee during orgasm and even for a while after it, until the muscles have gone back to their relaxed state.
82
@78: SL readers focus on a particular question because (1) they relate to it or (2) it's more nuanced/interesting. CLG's situation is, hopefully, not that relate-able for most people here (either as accused or accusers), and it's pretty fucking obvious she's a piece of shit.

Also, you're a psycho. Please get help.
83
Re: lameness of e-cards ... they are most definitely lame, but I think that was part of FART's joke.
84
About FART... eeeh-fucking-yuck!
85
@79. I totally relate to your smug, judgmental attitudes about men who date younger women. I too am smug and judgmental. I know this one guy, for example, who wears eyeglasses. Apparently he can't see well without them. The fact that he wears eyeglasses speaks volumes about his inability to see. Let me know if you want his email address. You can send him an email mocking him.
86
It's not that he should have expected it, it's that he shouldn't really be surprised...
87
@78
Being female didn't protect me from being falsely accused of rape.
88
Re: FART, it happens.

I've had it done to me, and it's pretty gross and pretty off-putting and the guy got really red-faced, but in my classic way I just said "when I told you to relax, I didn't mean to relax THIS much". Then we moved on to other acts.
89
I'm damn sick of creepy older men dating radically younger women with unequal power dynamics. Dating your daughters friend is just another power play on her and on the daughter. So old man, stop being creepy and stay out of your daughter's friend's pants.

I've got no problem with power in relationships, I'm active in the BDSM community, but power dynamics need to built from equal footing. Drastic age imbalances rarely make for equal footing.
90
Oh Hilarious...FART...that's just...a Faux Pas too Far...I have to say, if you're getting that intimate with someone, you're sort of beyond the point where you can convincingly claim to be deeply offended. Perhaps FART is emotionally tone deaf, and reacted in a way that ignored how unhappy the guy was, but really to me it looks like the new friend was just looking for an excuse to dump or just wasn't feeling it. Getting dumped shortly after the first romp is definitely a contender for worst dating experiences...BDTD. If this really was about the accidental gas, the eCard and laughing it off were adequate; if not, then the fartee was too uptight to be rimming.

Dad on the other hand, is just an ass. It's fine to go playing in the daughter's age range, but her FRIEND? C'mon...really, very, very, super-duper insensitive and selfish. Daughter is probably better off without him and the GF in her life...if that's the kind of caring and consideration they have to offer...yeesh. @46 "drama prince" is probably too kind.
91
@78 Your post makes me hurt with giggles from the sheer hypocrisy.

First, you spit on the "feminists" who insist that men who are falsely accused of rape benefit from the experience.

Then you declare that you wish more women were falsely accused of rape so that they will know how it feels.

I mean, come on. Are you doing this on purpose? Is this an attempt at irony?
92
I agree it's not good for a parent to get involved with friends of his/her offspring, since (among other reasons) it's really uncomfortable for the child. Fair enough.

But this whole idea that it's inherently "creepy" for older men to date younger women is just plain stupid. First of all, it's obviously not just the men who want in on this arrangement, right? So do assign some blame to these poor shrinking violets who say "Yes" to the idea. And second, you'd damn well better be as vocally opposed to older women with younger men (an arrangement which arguably makes even less sense, since kids are often no longer a possibility), or else you're a damned hypocrite.

Really, all y'all who are freaking out about older men dating younger women really need to take a good look in the mirror, because you're sounding like embittered middle-aged yentas who screwed up their 20s and 30s and now can't understand why it's not a seller's market anymore. You can rail all you want about how unjust it is that people in general, and men specifically, are more attracted to youthful women.

But it's never, ever, ever going to change a damn thing, and only makes you sound like exactly the sort of person no sane man of any age would want to get involved with...not because you're old, but because of the chip on your shoulder which betrays a fundamentally damaged personality. Maybe YOU'RE the creepy one.
93
P.S. Before the predictable ad homs start up, I'm well under 40, and have never broken the "half your age plus seven rule". But I also date, fuck, and love whomever I want (among consenting adults), and anyone who finds that "creepy" because of my gender or age is cordially invited to drink Drano.
94
tigele you rock 'n' keep on rolling
95
You knew this was dangerous territory, but you really liked the girl! Well its still dangerous territory and you made your choices. You're acting like it shouldn't be dangerous territory anymore because 'you really really wanted to.' How old are you again? Ask for your daughters forgiveness and understanding instead of lecturing her as though she shouldn't have a problem with it. You don't have the righteous high ground here, quit talking like you do and maybe then your daughter will come around. 2 people she trusted lied to her for 5 months, its gonna take a while.
96
@48: Close but not quite. You are right that men never stop appreciating what turned them on in their youth, (It wasn't pedophilia then, and it isn't pedophilia now.) However, love and a lifetime together do count for something in terms of finding someone sexy despite wearing the cloak of additional years on this planet. Say rather that our horizons broaden as we age.

You are totally on the mark about people's irrational need to desexualize their parents. It's bullshit. If we didn't have sex, you damned offspring wouldn't even exist. It's bad enough that you put such a huge damper on the old sex life in the early years, what with all the inopportune knocking on the door, waking up crying (or puking, or feverish, or a rash, or growing pains, or, or, or), needing just one more bedtime story, and all that. (I was 40 years old before I finally figured out what Saturday morning cartoons were REALLY for: to provide a diversion, so Mom and Dad could get in a little practice being something more than roommates.) When you get to be 20 and 30 and still go "Ewww..." when you think about Dad possibly having sex, you are being a petulant little asshole kid. Fucking grow up already.

That said, however, the daughter isn't totally off base to be a little freaked out over Dad dating her friend. What Dad has done is, he's rearranged the hierarchy of shared confidences between the three of them. Girlfriends share all manner of details about their lives with each other, details that they would be mortified to have Dad find out. Now, suddenly Dad has a conduit into that channel of information, and his daughter is recalibrating her emotional hierarchies to keep the right people at the right distances.

97
Dan, a fart's a fart, what's everyone so uptight about? It was an accident, and for the rimmee to be SO UPTIGHT about someone farting, I mean...you're FACE is in their ASS. What's the big frigging deal? Jesus Christ, get over yourselves.

Oh, and I'd love to see the look on dad's face should his daughter sleep with his friend. Or the look on the friend's face should HER father nail her best friend. Ugh, it's not the age difference that bothers me, just the relationship. Yes, this I'm UPTIGHT about...see how silly farts seem now?
98
@51: So what you are saying is basically that you, as a 20-something, aren't an adult, and never will be.

Pedophilia is attraction to pre-pubescent children, stupid. Either you are an adult or you aren't; and if you are an adult, it isn't pedophilia to be attracted to you. It wasn't pedophilia when Dad was 19 and his perfectly natural attraction was to his bride, age 18; it wasn't pedophilia when Dad was 35 and looking at 20-year-old Playboy models; it isn't pedophilia when Dad is 50 and divorced and his girlfriend is 22.

As a 20-something, you completely lack the perspective of what if feels like to be 45, in order to comment intelligently on how those older than you ought to feel and act. See comment #48, and grow the fuck up.
99
CLG, why does it make you said that you feel like you don't know your ex very well? Are you married to your ex? No. He's an ex. I don't know some of my exes that well, want to know why?

BECAUSE WE BROKE UP. AND MOVED ON WITH OUR LIVES.

I think you are one of those people who needs everyone to like them. Focus on your spouse and your kids. Do they love you? That's all that matters.
100
Sad* not Said :P

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