Savage Love

Religious Reason

Comments

1
I hope that doesn't mean the death of independent newspapers! We all pick em up cuz Sr. Savage is in them. On the other hand, I can now ride the bus without trying to hide the escort ads while reading Savage Love.

Waffle indeed.
2
I'm kind of surprised you didn't mention the Liberator Fascinator sheets re: the squirting. I have not used them myself, but I've heard great things about them. Apparently they're comfortable, and still provide a complete water (or other liquid) barrier.
3
P.S. Clits are important to guys, well the egalitarian fun guys I like, it's the viz. they don't worry about (too busy thinkin bout their own packages. Zing!)
4
WET: How about a tarp? :P
5
Waffler is just a fucked up prick. What a tool. I take pleasure in the fact that she stepped out and now he's messed up about it. Oh, yeah. I sent my email to Ms. Richardson. She'll probably never see it but it felt good sending it.
6
Similarly baffled by the "religious reason" cited in the first letter. Perhaps the writer feels he needs to practice some token abstinence as a sacrificial gesture to his God and has decided, arbitrarily, that vaginal sex before marriage will be the thing. Sort of like giving up chocolate for Lent.
7
He was fired for sending "adult" pictures to his 20 year old girlfriend? And, what the fuck was the mother doing snooping around a 20 year old's phone anyway?

Remind me to avoid Duval County whilst traveling through Florida...
8
Someone needs to send the Shamwow guy over to WET's house ... You'll say 'wow' every time...

Actually, there are plenty of products out there that would protect your mattress. "Protect-A-Bed" has a waterproof cotton mattress pad that is billed as NOT having that plastic-sheet-crinkle to it.
Otherwise, like Dan said: get out of bed.
9
@7 That could so easily be my mother (I'm 23). There's a reason why I wipe my browsing history, put all naked pics/porn on an external hard drive, and purge my phone whenever I see my parents. Even if they never get near my laptop or my phone, I'm not going to risk it.

Though, to her credit, my mom would just yell and cry at me, and leave my boyfriend alone. Though she would try to make me break-up with him and hate him forever.
10
To WET: We have the perfect solution! Two years ago my boyfriend got me a hilarious gift that quickly turned into our most used sex prop: Absorbent reusable pee pads! http://www.amazon.com/UltraSoft-4-Ply-Qu…

Trust me, they work. They can take SO much of my squirting and even period sex and clean right up and never stain. We just throw one of these pads down wherever we are and it saves our bed and other furniture from getting soaked. We even travel with ours sometimes so we can have easy to clean sex anywhere we go without leaving behind dirty sheets for hosts to wash. I can't say enough good things about these pads. We have 2 and you can even dry it out in between uses and use it a few times before washing if you want.
11
Um, about the I-love-you-please-wash-your-vag podcast: did anyone mention it could be what she was eating? I mean, a guy's diet can make cum taste "stronger" and Dan's edumacated us about womens' plumbing being analogous to mens', so it seems obvious to me.
12
Ok, about the coach, I'm going to play the Devil's Advocate here. Will I get flamed? Maybe...

Everyone who works knows that what your employer could catch heat from their clients or community about, is a no-no. This is why facebook profiles are private. Sexting is apparently a huge problem with high school kids. Why? Beause it ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS blows up. Someone freakin' ALWAYS sends the photos around. It's A+B=C, here. Anybody out there work with young students? You know how hard it is to talk sense to them with all the leotarded crap their so-called role models in the media make look so freaking attractive? We don't need the coach doing this kind of stupid stuff, and doing it without enough discretion not to get caught. {For example, if the girl still lives with Mom, and has her college paid for by Mom, she may be technically an adult, but not for all practical purposes.} I imagine lots of people would get fired for something like this. Hell, if I were the administration, I'd get rid of this guy just to avoid the snickers in the hall.

Dan's just mad because he sees it as trampling sexual freedom. Take the sex out of it, and let's say the guy got caught with his 20-year-old girlfriend at the street races. Let's say they got caught trying to buy dope. Or ended up in a raid at a scuzzy swingers club. I'd say the same, damn thing. Those are risky things to do- hell, the risk is part of the attraction, for crying out loud- and the freedom to do them comes with the responsibility to take the heat if your silly enough to get caught. So I say suck it up and hit the road, coach.

13
, about the coach, I'm going to play the Devil's Advocate here. Will I get flamed? Maybe...

Everyone who works knows that what your employer could catch heat from their clients or community about, is a no-no. This is why facebook profiles are private. Sexting is apparently a huge problem with high school kids. Why? Beause it ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS blows up. Someone freakin' ALWAYS sends the photos around. It's A+B=C, here. Anybody out there work with young students? You know how hard it is to talk sense to them with all the leotarded crap their so-called role models in the media make look so freaking attractive? We don't need the coach doing this kind of stupid stuff, and doing it without enough discretion not to get caught. {For example, if the girl still lives with Mom, and has her college paid for by Mom, she may be technically an adult, but not for all practical purposes.} I imagine lots of people would get fired for something like this. Hell, if I were the administration, I'd get rid of this guy just to avoid the snickers in the hall.

Dan's just mad because he sees it as trampling sexual freedom. Take the sex out of it, and let's say the guy got caught with his 20-year-old girlfriend at the street races. Let's say they got caught trying to buy dope. Or ended up in a raid at a scuzzy swingers club. I'd say the same, damn thing. Those are risky things to do- hell, the risk is part of the attraction, for crying out loud- and the freedom to do them comes with the responsibility to take the heat if your silly enough to get caught. So I say suck it up and hit the road, coach.
14
I registered, dangit, show my comments!

Ok, about the coach, I'm going to play the Devil's Advocate here. Will I get flamed? Maybe...

Everyone who works knows that what your employer could catch heat from their clients or community about, is a no-no. This is why facebook profiles are private. Sexting is apparently a huge problem with high school kids. Why? Beause it ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS blows up. Someone freakin' ALWAYS sends the photos around. It's A+B=C, here. Anybody out there work with young students? You know how hard it is to talk sense to them with all the leotarded crap their so-called role models in the media make look so freaking attractive? We don't need the coach doing this kind of stupid stuff, and doing it without enough discretion not to get caught. {For example, if the girl still lives with Mom, and has her college paid for by Mom, she may be technically an adult, but not for all practical purposes.} I imagine lots of people would get fired for something like this. Hell, if I were the administration, I'd get rid of this guy just to avoid the snickers in the hall.

Dan's just mad because he sees it as trampling sexual freedom. Take the sex out of it, and let's say the guy got caught with his 20-year-old girlfriend at the street races. Let's say they got caught trying to buy dope. Or ended up in a raid at a scuzzy swingers club. I'd say the same, damn thing. Those are risky things to do- hell, the risk is part of the attraction, for crying out loud- and the freedom to do them comes with the responsibility to take the heat if your silly enough to get caught. So I say suck it up and hit the road, coach.
15
WET needs to look into Chux (disposable underpads). Expensive, though, depending on how often they need 'em.
16
@10 Pee pads are an interesting idea (though drying them out without washing between uses? Ewwww).

A very simple, cheap solution is your everyday bath-mat. Specifically one with a rubber backing, the plusher the better. It's absorbent, soft, blocks liquid from leaking through, and easily explained as home decor by the side of the bed.
17
KS, Re #10:

Bless you bless you bless you! I am ordering mine right now!!! A MUCH better answer than Dan's BTW.
19
One does never stops getting appalled witnessing to what extent religious dogma can twist peopleĀ“s minds... up to the point of seeing one of the most "immoral" courses of action in their scale, as a solution to their dilemmas. Hopefully WAFFLER will make love to his girlfriend, and hopefully he will not feel guilty for that...
20
in most countries, ie not the United States, sending "adult" pictures to his 20 year old girlfriend would not be an issue ventilated at work.
21
You had me at Stefon, Dan. LOVE HIM.
22
Anyone as irrational as Waffler doesn't sound like stable boyfriend material in the first place. As far as men go, I can tell you, they only get more uptight as they get older (my experience, anyway) so starting with, say, Jack Johnson would be how I would go if I were young.

Dan, you had a baby, surely you had one of those changing pad mats? In the hospital when you have a baby, they have something similar, but a bit bigger, a nice flannel pad with a waterproof backing, easy to wash, available at those "medical" type pharmacies, it would work well for WET.

Bill Hader, really? I thought the celebrity crush was always supposed to be cuter than the real significant other? Isn't that why it's a fantasy?
23
Solid advice, as usual. @10 - I had no idea such a thing as "pee pads" existed, but they sound kind of awesome even just for regular (wet, sweaty) sex.

The coach situation is beyond ridiculous. I almost wonder if the ACLU would be interested in the case - I mean, the school (presumably a public school?) fired him for something completely within his rights as a private adult human being, and he did nothing irresponsible that would have resulted in those pictures being made public anyway. If anyone should be penalized in this case, it's the weirdo mom who thought it would be okay to circulate naught pictures without consent.

Anyway, I consider "consensual, adult-only, naughty-picture-taking" to be a civil liberty, and it's idiotic that it's apparently considered grounds for firing in some areas.
24
I second the liberator fascinator throes. My wife and I wound up in an unfortunate moving situation.... 2 babies in a 2 br apartment for 9 months waiting for our house to close. We had one kid permanently in our bedroom and could only get it on when they were both napping.

We found the liberator to be great, best toy we ever bought, as we could throw down on the couch, the floor, the bed, the car in the garage, whenever the kids both managed to pass out.

Now that we've moved, we use it all the time just because it's completely eliminated the argument over who's sleeping in the wet spot! And we don't have to change the sheets after sex, which, with two babies, is a big deal... since you practically don't have time to have sex, you certainly don't have the time to change the sheets! The throw can go right in the wash without a sheet changing pain in the butt.
25
Regarding the squirting and the soaked bed. I have found hospital bed underpads which I get cheap marketed as whelping pads to be great. They was up nice, and hold a TON of liquid, and are sheet like on the top.
26
clits ARE SO important to guys (and girls too I am certain). Almost nothing turns me on more than a big, hard, clit - bigger the better.
27
WAFFLER has made a mistake (by saying "go ahead and have sex with some other guy") and is paying for it. However, his girlfriend will pay and pay and pay: she "regrets" the fling with the other guy, she still doesn't get to have actual sex with the guy she loves, and now -- for "religious reasons" -- she'll probably be made to feel guilty and inferior for the rest of her life if she stays with him. Ugh. And it's often true: men can get more and more conservative as they get older (that's been my experience), and by the time this guy is 40 (and still not married) he'll be furious that whoever he's dating has had ANY kind of a sexual past.
28
I'd like to suggest the squirter just use a bathmat--super absorbent, rubber lined on the bottom, machine-washable, can be used on the bed, easier than a wrestling mat to store. I know she doesn't want to change the sheets, but if they've already tried emptying the towel cupboard to control the chaos, I'll assume she's not opposed to some extra laundry.
29
Ah, to WET:

I've had a similar problem, except that there's that much squirting every single time I have sex (well, assuming it's good sex, anyway). I made the decision long ago that my bed is for sleeping. I have 2 yoga mats that I can roll out if need be -- but for the most part, it's more fun when you aren't confined to your bed, anyway. It forces the guy to get more creative. You learn new ways of being flexible on various pieces of furniture. And the best part? Amazing sex plus a dry bed!
30
Actually, there *are* things to put down for children that wet the bed, people who spill their drinks commonly, and those who squirt in mass quantity. Go to a store where you buy mattresses, and ask about a waterproof cover. I have one that goes between the sheets and the mattress that protects the top of the bed due to a cat that thought my bed was her litter box. They're well worth the cost [$20-30 max], and will be much more pleasant than a wrestling mat or plastic sheeting... Although, you may still want to place down some absorbent material.
31
But god SPECIFICALLY said "Thou shalt not have penetrative vaginal sex until thou art married!"

It's in the bible! I know I read it... I can't remember where though. Uh... I think it's somewhere in the back...
32
Bill Hader as Stefon is AMAZING. Sunburned drifters with soap sud beards? You know that thing when a hobo becomes a rich man and takes the big BUBBLE BATH ...
33
I am a little disappointed on your advice today to WAFFLER! Sure, it's godawful stupid to not have vaginal sex for religious reasons when you're okay with every other kind of sex. Unless your religion is against vaginas or something. And I'm sure any religious expert would say that WAFFLER is missing the point completely.

But the fact is, he told her upfront that he wasn't going to stick it in her. She went into this relationship knowing his limits. Would this be different if he had a disability that made it difficult and painful to stick it in her, or if he was very kinky and super uncomfortable with vanilla sex of any kind? I don't think you should need a "valid" reason to not engage in a sex act with somebody-- once you start saying what's not a good enough reason not to do something, that opens up a whole can of worms for consent issues.

That said, he totally dropped the ball on opening up his relationship. If he didn't want her fucking anybody else, he shouldn't have changed the rules to make that okay. If having premarital vaginal sex is a dealbreaker issue for her, then she can leave. But he shouldn't have said "go ahead and fuck other people" just to keep her from leaving, when her fucking other people is a dealbreaker issue for HIM.
34
I think that you blew it with your response to Waffler. The guy is dealing with his sexual orientation. He is willing to do a lot of things except stick his penis in the lady! You got it right in your comments about his created personal religion of one? I am old fashion and intercourse seems to be the most natural sexual activity of a man and woman. Maybe I am too old fashioned but I am more than willing to avoid some of the other stuff that he is willing to do. I would consider the alternate activities to be degrading. Is he willing to do the other stuff as punishment?

Both the lady and Waffler need to take a clear look at this situation. For her, or any woman, it will be marriage to a guy who is not really into sex with a woman. If he goes through with the marriage he will be miserable and may likely never consumated the marriage.

He should be honest with himself and, most of all, decent enough to not put his desire to be transformed into a heterosexual above the well being of the woman who unknowningly becomes his wife. The misery will affect all in the family. The parents must be happy to create a happy home for their children. The sham will result in a lot of seemily unconnected problems and conficts.

I am surprised that you did not realize that Waffler is hiding his sexual orientation behind religion. Has he given any thought about what is expected of him on the wedding night? Maybe he'll get a wedding day headache that will last as long as the marriage - which, for the sake of the lady and him, should last only a few days if not hours.

Maybe I am a weak guy but I would find it hard to sleep with a lady and not go all the way. If I were religious enough to not go all the way I would be more than religious enough to feel that sleeping together is wrong.
35
The hospital pads are called "chucks" (or sometimes "chux") and are available in various sizes up to 2x3'.
36
The hospital pads are called "chucks" (or "chux") and are available in various sizes up to 2x3'.
37
Just out of curiosity, do we have any way of knowing for certain what WET's gender is?
38
Washable bed pads are great for use at home but can be a pain when you travel. For that, I suggest the disposable pads. They're not quite as comfortable as the quilted cotton-backed ones, but they're not bad, plus they're lightweight and cheap. Just make sure you get the large pads (the ones that can be tucked under the mattress) because their plastic backing gives them a tendency to slip around.
39
Try one of those backpacking towels, and get a really really large one. They are REALLY REALLY absorbent, and I think a lot less abrasive than some of those really really absorbent materials for spills. And if one doesn't work, then try two large backpacking towels. I can't see much of anything getting through those. REI should have them.
40

Answer the damn question, Dan.

Your Devoted Reader asked how your attitude toward the sex-advice business has changed over the years. Not how your readers perceive that change.

If you're going to print questions that call for an act of sincere introspection on your part, have the courage to comply.

You are not your readers.

Which is why we love you. Get busy, bitch.
41
Another potential solution for the squirter: dog training pads. Seriously - they worked for a friend.
42
Wayne at @37:

'Squirting' is a very common term for female ejaculation. It's pretty clear WET is a woman.
43
@ 37 - do men squirt when they're fisted? Not trying to be a jerk with that question - do they? If so . . . I'm thinking just a pee mat won't help!
44
Hooray for time traveling posts sent to us from the future!
45
It won't help with the wet sheets but to protect the bed there are some really good waterproof mattress pads. I've got one on my bed (ex was a major squirter) and I can't tell the difference when lying on the waterproof pad vs the non-waterproof. In fact, she could even keep it next to the bed then toss it down on top of the sheets to keep them dry too. It would only take a second to spread it and another second to roll it up and toss it off.
46
Waffler - Seriously? Just... seriously? SERIOUSLY?

This has got to be the most offshoot of saddlebacking I've ever seen. And this guy reads Dan Savage?
47
I don't get the hostility toward WAFFLER'S line-drawing religion. It looks to me that the "go ahead and do it with somebody else" was NOT a dogmatically-approved exception, but rather either a test, or a declaration that he's not holding her to HIS doctrinal beliefs.

As for lines, oral and water sports don't make babies, so it's a very pragmatic line to draw. Actually, it's not too far off the Jewish position, ignoring all the squicky-ness about monthly cycles and foreskins.
48
Was anybody else struck by the brilliant coincidence of the coach's name? Here's to you, Mr. Robinson . . .
49
"(I'm 23)....Though, to her credit, my mom would just yell and cry at me, and leave my boyfriend alone. Though she would try to make me break-up with him and hate him forever."

23?! Jesus, do you guys want to be kids forever or something? If my parents had done that when I was 23, I would have icily told them no one---no. one.---has that right.

Tell your mom to STFU or you will leave for a looooong time next time she dares open her yob after violating your privacy. Your mom needs help understanding boundaries. She helped you learn such things when you were 6. Return the favor now that you are 23.

Oh, and Allison, that shit you cite (drugs, racing, clubs that can be raided by polic) is all ILLEGAL and PUBLIC ACTIVITIES. Adults sharing naughty pics which are then stolen by a third party (the mom)? NOT ILLEGAL and PRIVATE. Big fucking difference between illegal public activities and legal private ones. If you don't understand that, well, you are a dumbfuck.

The victim here is the fired party, whose privacy was violated and his junk shared with people he did not intend.

I hope the mom is prosecuted and sued, sued, sued for her cuntishness. And then sued again.
50
Whats with the close-minded attitude towards religious sexual taboos? Every religion has all kinds of taboos, and not JUST religions. Cultures have taboos. Its complicated and ultimately personal. He didn't say anything about morality, he's trying very hard not to force his lifestyle on his girl, and he apparently reads and trusts Savage Love so he can't be too much of a close-minded asshole. Although, you are all looking like close-minded assholes at the moment. I see mentions of the bible and hell here - whatever made you think he is a Christian (or Jew)? Wake up and smell the hypocrisy.
51
@49, you got to it before I could. Allison is totally missing the point when she cites illegal behavior as her comparison. Also, if the school wants to fire him because of this, shouldn't they be checking out ALL their teachers' sex lives? I'm sure there's plenty that's more hardcore and "immoral" than a few naked pictures.

And @40, Dan DID answer the question. He stated that he'd gotten a lot more sympathetic towards straight guys, but that otherwise his positions hadn't changed.
52
My advice to Waffle:
lemme splain you something that helped me. As all catholics know, as long as no one is pregnant, no one has been having penetrative sex. Even if someone is pregnant, there are shotgun weddings and 'early babies' to remedy that. Think about how many 'early babies' there were in your parents generation.

Does anyone look at those members of the family as terrible sinners who are going to hell? No? Your church obviously doesn't care that much, really. Then start fucking your girlfriend and start worrying about the things that will REALLY send you to Hell, like buying shoes made in sweatshops and working for companies that have abuse human rights overseas.
53
If waffler doesn't want to have vaginal sex then fine, whatever- but for him to play games with his sexually frustrated girlfriend is stupid. He shouldn't have told her to have sex with other guys if that isn't what he really wanted.

All I have to say about firing a teacher for his private, normal, personal sex life with his ADULT girlfriend is this: Fire the honest, normal, guy for being sexual with his CONSENTING TWENTY YEAR OLD ADULT GIRLFRIEND and then karma will give you the 45 year old, bible thumping, crazy-insane pedophile as his replacement. Let people have their private, consensual sex lives and leave them alone about their porn.
54
http://www.amazon.com/Carters-Keep-Water…

Flannel on both sides with a waterproof rubber layer in between, supposedly to catch any diaper problems in the night (that's why it's standard crib sized) but I know way more couples who use them than parents, if you know what I'm saying. Comfy without being crackly or sticking to bare skin like a plain rubber sheet would.
55
Swingers clubs aren't illegal, but they can be raided...granted this story is from Texas, but it was in a neighborhood and the neighbors were pissed, so the city kept throwing the code book at the place trying to shut it down. Apparently, they did raid, and took photos of all the patrons. Now, suppose those photos got 'leaked' onto the internet, or something. And suppose that one of the patrons is, oh, say the principal of your child's school. Now, you're a very open-minded Dan Savage reader, but how do you suppose the other parents would feel about that guy's employement? Do you suppose the school would find themselves in the midst of a giant shitstorm? Should they fire the guy, or are they required to fight out this guy's right to personal procilivities he should have kept private?

http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2008/jul…

Yeah, my other examples were illegal, but so sometimes is sexting- don't you read the news? They bust the kid who took the picture for distributing child porn, bust the kids who received it for owning child porn, then stick them all on the sex offender registry. Now, the coach and his girl are of age, so child porn isn't an issue, but sexting is a problem for the kids, and the coach is a role model. Yeah, he should be allowed to do it, it isn't illegal, but just like with the swinger's club, the world is not this board, and the school has to deal with reality, in terms of community and parent reactions. Obviously consenting adults should be able to do whatever they consent to do, but they, too have to work with the real world, and in the real world, nude pictures, videos and texts often make their way to people you didn't intend.
56
WET - pick up one of those hospital diaper sheet things. Or use latex sheeting under your towels. Personally I use latex sheeting (because my man has a latex fetish) and we've never had problems. They even come in all sorts of pretty colors!

www.sheetlatex.com :)
57
two things:

I could easily be wrong, but Waffle sounds like an Orthodox Jew to me. It's a different relationship with the almighty - observing the Law is something you do because God said to, not because it's moral or because you'll get punished for not doing it. There's no moral value to not carrying things on Saturday or not eating shellfish or whatever. You do it for its own sake. I'm not saying my people are less crazy than Christians, but we're crazy in a different way.

I am sure many will chime in after me, but let me explain why Melanie is Wrong on the Internet: consensual sexting might be risky, but it's not immoral or illegal. Take the sex out of it, as Melanie suggests, and imagine that the coach got pulled over for speeding, which is much more dangerous and IS illegal, and which is probably a much more prevalent and deadly problem amongst high school kids than sexting. Should he be fired? Of course not, jesus.

Okay, now put the sex back i to it, but more of it. One imagines that Coach was also fucking his girlfriend. This is also legal and probably less dangerous than speeding, and also a behaviour many people would like to discourage amongst teenagers, more so even than sexting. Should he be fired? Of course not, jesus. I'm sorry, but they are adults. Adults do things every day that kids cannot or should not do. Would you fire a kindergarten teacher for crossing the street without holding hands while she's out grocery shopping?

This is more than a sex-positive issue, it is a privacy issue.
58
WAFFLER: I've been there, thinking I'd be ok if my girl fucked around, and not being able to face the emotional consequences when it happened unannounced...
If my experience means anything, you need to DTMFA because nothing you (or she) can do will make up for the loss of trust.
59
OK, this has nothing to do with the questions and Mr. Savage's advice - I love reading you, by the way, greetings from Belgium - but can somebody explain to me how the heck this column is shown as being posted on the 3rd of June while today's still the 2nd?

You living in another space continuum, Dan? Or did you steal Doc's DeLorean?

Anyway, thank you for all those advices. They are priceless.
60
Well, I thought WET might be a man; "squirt" could be a crude euphemism for ejaculate, but you're probably right; it's probably a woman. I guess.
61
Hey si, you're absolutely right, I was thinking that as I typed it, but I was hoping it would fly. Yeah, speeding, jaywalking, public intox, all worse than sexting, and people can't be held to work standards all day every day, we'd have to fire everybody.

Like I initially said, I'm being the Devil's advocate here. I hate the invasion of his privacy. I see the anti-sex judgment call that's being made. But this lady sent the photos to the 'principal and scores of other people'. That's a public relations nightmare for the school. I'm going out on a limb and saying that poor Donna The School Principal is probably already up to her tits in outraged emails, not to mention calls, letters, editorials and possibly reporters. She's fired this guy, and probably didn't want to, but in this situation, it's like grabbing a life preserver when you're drowning. Now Dan wants to bury her in mail from his readers protesting the firing??!! That's just sorry.
62
Allison, we don't know if she wanted to fire the guy or not. All we know is that she's punishing him after his privacy rights were violated because it's easier for her. You think it's not nice to hassle the poor woman for doing the wrong thing because it's less of a headache? What about ruining this poor guy's career? You think this guy is going to have an easy time getting a job after this? Sure, her position is a difficult one, but people who support the teacher ought to write in (polite, short letters) and show their support.
63
Yeah, chicago girl, but when Dan leads off his call for letters by calling the school administration 'sexophobic morons' I think that the bulk of the letters won't be polite. And really, I maintain that the situation is not Donna's problem. She's not paid to manage her employees' careers, she's paid to manage the school. Firing him is the pragmatic removal of a major organizational problem. Problem solved- that's what Donna's paid for. She's not ruining his career, either- girlfriend's crazy Mom did that.
64
waffler is a twisted fuck. I'm pretty sure I was the one who fucked his girlfriend.
65
I know Christians like WAFFLER and they annoy me tremendously. Mostly because they act superior because they are still 'pure' before marriage. Unlike WAFFLER they're very concerned to keep their hymen, though.
66
Re: Waffler, I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet...

I think sometimes closet case homos use religion as a lame ass excuse for not fucking their girlfriends before marriage - a classic delay tactic. Waffler may well be a gay and just doesn't/can't fuck his girlfriend because he just can't get it up for a female.
67
@55 "but how do you suppose the other parents would feel about that guy's employment?"

Who gives a rats ass? What if the parents were outraged b/c it was a gay relationship? Surely you don't support firing gay teachers b/c of the "public relations nightmare" that might ensue if the bigoted asshats found out about it. What if was an interracial relationship? Should she cave and fire the guy then? What if the girlfriend's mom had been lurking out in the bushes and took photos of them having sex without a condom and sent them to the principle? Teens having unprotected sex is HUGE problem so we better fire this guy b/c he's a role model and all.

@61 "Now Dan wants to bury her in mail from his readers protesting the firing??!! That's just sorry."

No it's not. If she (the principle) had done the right thing (told the outraged parents to shut the fuck up) then she'd only have to deal with half the mail. And no, this isn't like grabbing a life preserver when you're drowning. If what you posit is true, that she really didn't want to fire him, then it was a cowardly, chicken-shit, completely self serving thing to do and deserves every bit of criticism that she gets.
68
[I decided to sign up]

I think that you blew it with your response to Waffler. The guy is dealing with his sexual orientation. He is willing to do a lot of things except stick his penis in the lady! You got it right in your comments about his created personal religion of one? I am old fashion and intercourse seems to be the most natural sexual activity of a man and woman. Maybe I am too old fashioned but I am more than willing to avoid some of the other stuff that he is willing to do. I would consider the alternate activities to be degrading. Is he willing to do the other stuff as punishment?

Both the lady and Waffler need to face what is going on and what will happen if they get married. For her, or any woman, it will be marriage to a guy who is not really into sex with a woman. If he goes through with the marriage he will be miserable and may even never consumated the marriage. If he does it will likely not be of a very loving full relationship.

He should be honest with himself and, most of all, decent enough to not put his desire to be transformed into a heterosexual above the well being of the woman who will unknowningly become his wife. The misery will affect all in the family, especially the children. Parents must be happy with each other and themselves to create a happy home for their children. The sham will result in a lot of seemily unconnected problems and conficts.

I am surprised that you did not realize that Waffler is very likely hiding his sexual orientation behind religion. Has he given any thought about what is expected of him on the wedding night? Maybe he'll get a wedding day headache that will last as long as the marriage - which, for the sake of the lady and him, should last only a few days if not hours.

Maybe I am a weak guy but I would find it hard to sleep with a lady and not go all the way. If I were religious enough to not go all the way I would be more than religious enough to feel that sleeping together is wrong. Even living together would be out of the question.
69
A yoga mat might help dear WET out, or they could just throw a shower curtain on the bed before they get down there.

Also, there are a lot of mattress wrappers made for allergy sufferers that use plastic on one side (towards the mattress) and a soft fiber on the outside. (You don't really want to know what's living in that mattress). It's 2010, and the full plastic bedcover is out.
70
A yoga mat might help dear WET out, or they could just throw a shower curtain on the bed before they get down there.

Also, there are a lot of mattress wrappers made for allergy sufferers that use plastic on one side (towards the mattress) and a soft fiber on the outside. (You don't really want to know what's living in that mattress). It's 2010, and the full plastic bedcover is out.
71
I say Dan tracks down the email address of the mother who invaded her daughter's privacy and blast her. It doesn't matter whether or not mommy pays for college. She has no right to snoop through her daughter's phone. She lost that right as soon as daughter dearest turned 18. If my mom would have done something like that I would have found my own way to pay for college and told her exactly where to go. I thank my mother, though, for not being an overbearing control-freak and for respecting my privacy throughout my entire life.
72
For WET - two suggestions - one more green than the other...

first the re-usable option
check out the Throe by Liberator - it's a sassy throw for your bed that's furry on one side, silky on the other and lined in the middle with "moisture barrier" and it's machine washable/reusable. i've got friends who squirt a lot who swear by these things - they're about $90 and you can find them online or maybe at your local sex positive store. note - i don't have one of my own, but i should fix that.

and the disposable option
try puppy pads - you can get them at most pet supply stores - they're disposable and designed to absorb a fair amount of liquid. i just looked and you can get 300 for $39 bucks online. the only drawback to puppy pads is that when they get wet if you keep rolling around on them they can get pilly and stick to a girl. but they're cheap. and way cheaper than a new mattress.

a wrestling mat may work, but i'm concerned the liquid will just roll off or get all over both of you. could be fun, but may not reduce the clean up factor...
73
AllisonM,

You're a coward. YES, the school is absolutely supposed to respect its employees civil rights, regardless of the community's outrage. Our civil rights are not subject to debate, that's why they're enshrined in the Constitution.

So you support civil rights, unless people find out and are offended?
74
Oh I want the Savage Love app so badly! But I am afraid my kids with pick up my phone and tinker with it....does anyone know whether there is a way to password protect an app on an iPhone???
75
67- C'mon, you really think it would be acceptable for her to just tell angry parents to 'shut the fuck up'? You really don't think she'd run into a problem with that? Naw, the'd totally just go away, and her bosses would be totally satisfied with that level of service.

"What if the parents were outraged b/c it was a gay relationship? Surely you don't support firing gay teachers b/c of the "public relations nightmare" that might ensue if the bigoted asshats found out about it. What if was an interracial relationship? Should she cave and fire the guy then? "

Glad you brought that up. People tend to speak up on issues they see as bigotry. That's why the battles you mention are no longer the issues they once were. All the anonymous board-posters want to make this the school's battle, but where are you in it? How about your Facebook profile, is it private? You sellout!

"What if the girlfriend's mom had been lurking out in the bushes and took photos of them having sex without a condom and sent them to the principle?"

Principal. And if that were the case, you could probably charge her with something. But you know what? Email, texts and stuff you post on the internet? It isn't private, and once you hit 'send' it isn't yours anymore.

"Teens having unprotected sex is HUGE problem so we better fire this guy b/c he's a role model and all."

I already admitted that argument was crap. Read back a few.

76
I dunno, I think Alison's got a point. And not on the top of her head, either. I think that anyone who posts, emails, texts, or however sends ANYTHING that they wouldn't want their boss or parents or partner or the whole world to see is a fucking idiot. Once sent or posted, it's gone, it's out of your control, and there are dozens of potential leaks in the system from software glitches to dropped or stolen phones to parents who have been praying for the opportunity to stick it up your butt, and I don't mean in a good way.

You think FB can't have a glitch that shows everybody everything? Well, they already have. And there's a lot of discontent in that company. It's gonna happen again.

Nowhere near enough people pay attention to that very good rule, but I got no sympathy when they're caught out and then squeal about it. If you know it would cost you your job if it were seen, then either don't send it, find another way to send it, wait 'til you see her in person and play it for her, or prepare for a court case. ESPECIALLY if you have a job where you work with kids.

Yeah, it's a damned shame that this guy lost his job because GF's mother is a bitch. Yeah, he should contest it because I guarantee you that the only difference between him and the parents who find him too creepy to work with their kids is that the stuff they watch and send hasn't been reported to THEIR bosses.

But he's also a tool.
77
ML77-"the school is absolutely supposed to respect its employees civil rights, regardless of the community's outrage. "

According to who? The founding fathers of corporate America? Do you know how many people are fired because their facebook profile shows alcohol? I knew someone who was fired because of her personal blog. Dear Abby recently printed a letter from a lady who was fired after someone anonymously complained that she'd done lingerie modeling for a department store. You know, those black and white pictures in the paper? Racy stuff... What world are you living in that companies have any responsibility to your privacy? I had to pee in a cup and provide access to my personal credit file last time I got a job. Where's your outrage on that?

And I'm a coward!? What, writing a post on a board makes you a crusader?

Really, you want to make a statement on corporate practices regarding your privacy? Go to Facebook, change your access to all public and post a picture of yourself doing body shots off a stripper at your buddy's bachelor party. Then go apply for jobs, and see how many call-backs you get.
78
Hey, y'know what else I had to do for that job? I had to sign an agreement saying that any ideas I have during my tenure there belong to the company.
79
To the squirter: SHAM-WOW
80
@75
"C'mon, you really think it would be acceptable for her to just tell angry parents to 'shut the fuck up'?"

No, I expect her to say "I'm sorry but we feel that firing a teacher b/c he engaged in a completely legal, consensual activity would be inappropriate. We also feel that it would be a gross error to justify an invasion of an employees privacy with such a firing."

"but where are you in it? How about your Facebook profile, is it private? You sellout!"

What in heaven's name does this have to do with anything?

"I already admitted that argument was crap."

Then what's your point? You seem to be saying that the firing was justified but if you don't think it's justified on the grounds that he's a "role model" then how can you possibly justify it? Just b/c the parents are outraged?

"Principal"

Thanks. Btw,in post 55 you spelled employment as "employement" and I corrected it for you without feeling a need to point it out.
81
@76
"I think that anyone who posts, emails, texts, or however sends ANYTHING that they wouldn't want their boss or parents or partner or the whole world to see is a fucking idiot."

He didn't post it publicly he sent it privately to someone's phone and then that person's phone was hacked into. That's the difference. If someone had a private facebook account with no intention of it being read publicly and then that account was hacked into and the information was disseminated then they shouldn't be fired.
82
@78

" Hey, y'know what else I had to do for that job? I had to sign an agreement saying that any ideas I have during my tenure there belong to the company."

Good for you. And if he had signed a contract that said "I will never take sexy photos/videos of myself and send them to my girlfriend" then you'd have an accurate comparison but seeing as it doesn't appear that he signed any such contract then it's not comparable at all.
83
I used to be in WAFFLER's boat, having decided that penetrative sex wasn't okay, but just about everything else was. Similarly, my (now) fiance wanted to "go all the way." I guess I was lucky, because she understood that my faith was important to me and just gently challenged me to think through my position.

Unfortunately, WAFFLER's lady didn't do the same. She should have read between the lines to glaringly obvious "this guy is confused about sex, this requires time and conversation" but instead she took his desperate suggestion at face value and did something she knew was the wrong thing to do.

Back in my experience, eventually I came to see that the bible is pretty vague about what adultery means and she was there eagerly awaiting me. In the meantime we had plenty of fun with each other in lots of categories.

I guess what I'm saying is, we all come into relationships with certain handicaps. Treating each others' handicaps gently and thoughtfully is part of a successful relationship. Whether or not they survive that mistake as a couple remains to be seen, but I hope they both learn from it.
84
@77

"I had to pee in a cup and provide access to my personal credit file last time I got a job. Where's your outrage on that?"

If someone had stolen your pee and gave it to the company to be tested and then hacked into your credit profile and gave it to your company to check without your consent then I (along with everyone here I'd bet) would be equally outraged. But it sounds like you consented to these things. If the coach had consented to the video being given to his employers and then they fired him then you'd have something but as it is......
85
Luv Linens - http://luvlinen.com/

Best thing ever invented for those of us who squirt. The boyfriend and I call it the "pragmat," because it's such a great, pragmatic solution.

Towels DO NOT work. And I'm not into using a shower curtain, either.
86
@85 That's awesome to have a real testimonial. Does it seem to be durable; i.e. you won't need to replace it for awhile? I only ask b/c $200 is a bunch of scratch.
87
Dan: Why did you say that you hope she's not being fisted every time she has sex?
88
WAFFLER deserves his misery for being a stupid Jesus freak.
89
email to richardsod@duvalschools.org is sent.

Good advice as always, Dan. I've been reading since before my son was born, dug through the archives when I was pregnant, he is 4 tomorrow, and I really do not think you have changed. To all the people who do, let them look into their own personal growth, and not project their issues onto you.

You, naturally, did not give a tiny rats behind to begin with. Keep on as you are.

Love from Norway.

Naomi
90
To the squirter: What about using a ShamWow!
91
email to richardsod@duvalschools.org is sent.

Good advice as always, Dan. I've been reading since before my son was born, dug through the archives when I was pregnant, he is 4 tomorrow, and I really do not think you have changed. To all the people who do, let them look into their own personal growth, and not project their issues onto you.

You, naturally, did not give a tiny rats behind to begin with. Keep on as you are.

Love from Norway.

Naomi
92
@ 83 & WAFFLER

"Unfortunately, WAFFLER's lady didn't do the same."

Both of you blame the woman for not being saints in the face of your complete ass-hattery. The truth is that you both entered relationships w/ fucked-up, twisted & perverted (not the good kind) rules. 83, great, you lucked out & your woman was cool enough to gently show you what an asshat you were. But that was _your_ luck, and _not_ her responsibility.

And WAFFLE? You should date your palm for a while as you straighten yourself out & stop inflicting your fucked-up attitude on nice young women.
93
To WET:

I too am a squirter that will soak. There are high end waterproof mattress pads available at your local Macy's or Tuesday Morning. They don't crinkle or crunch. Just a nice cushy and cottony feel. If you don't make it off of the bed - as we all know that will happen. When done pull it off with the sheet and throw it in the wash when soaked. We even keep ours on a Tempurpedic. Works!
94
One word to the squirter: Sham-WOW.
95
Want to ditto 72's suggestion for the Liberator throw. I have one, it's great for squirters, and it's way sexier than anything designed for bedwetters.
96
The story about the coach is almost two weeks old now, but, as far as I can tell, there is some dispute over whether Robinson put the video on a school computer or whether the video was only on his cell phone. Of course the school maitiains the former and the Robinson maintains the latter. However, that nuance (as well as the fact that Robinson was placed in a "non-teaching roll" and not necessarily fired) seems to be absent from Dan's righteous indgination.
97
"roll" should be "role"
98
bassplayerguy, my examples were relevant to the person I was talking to, the one who said:

"YES, the school is absolutely supposed to respect its employees civil rights, regardless of the community's outrage. Our civil rights are not subject to debate, that's why they're enshrined in the Constitution. "

What I should have said was I don't see which civil right was violated, but the examples still stand as common examples of corporate-employee interactions that dictate what the employee can/can't do in spare time. And yes, I suppose we 'voluntarily' give that information in the sense that we sign a form, but that dosen't make it any less invasive. I suppose I'd have 'voluntarily' given them nude pics of myself if they'd been a requirement for getting any job, the way a credit report is. My facebook example was relevant in the sense that your personal activities absolutely can and are commonly used against you by your employer and this is nothing new. I still want to know why so many people are outraged about this when you've been 'voluntarily' giving up your own privacy to your employer for years.

In any event, I give up the argument. If you guys want to do stuff like this, it'll mean less competition for the rest of us.

And thanks, Belleweather, you said it better and less obnoxiously than I did.
99
@76: are you kidding? My friend, that message wasn't sent "privately" - there's NO SUCH THING. Do you control the phone companies? The internet? Every key stroke you make anytime is potentially recoverable. Ditto for every file you send. You can lose a phone - it can be stolen - it can be picked up by someone when you're not looking. Any code made by a person can be unlocked by a more determined person.

There is no such thing as privacy. With every single thing you transmit, every text, every call, you're just betting you won't get unlucky. Every post we make here could be connected to us if someone had the will to do so.

And you can yell all you want about privacy and this or that *shouldn't* have happened and *wasn't* fair and *was* a violation of your rights, but at the end of the day that's not gonna matter much if your job or your reputation or your relationship is sunk.

All I'm sayin' is - make your decisions based on the fact that there's really no such thing as privacy online.
100
Dammit, I never get to be first.

But, Sham-Wow is a fucking godsend.
101
Look, the whole "Send an email to Donna" thing works this way. She fired him because she thought the negative attention would be really bad, and she could reduce it by just getting rid of him.

Quick aside - the coach is being fired because the girl's mum committed a serious invasion of his privacy. If the school thinks they were harmed, they need to sue the mum, not fire the coach. SHE distributed inflammatory, stolen, private material to "scores of other people", with intent to harm the reputation of an employee of the school (who had done nothing wrong.)

Back to the email thing: We all need to write letters to show the principal that she was wrong. Not wrong to fire the guy; I think she probably knows that already. We need to show her that she was wrong TO THINK that firing the guy was better from the negative-attention-publicity perspective. Savage Love readers (and the rest of the world) need to jump up and down and cause trouble, to make it clear to everyone that the public outing of an embarrassing (but legal) part of an employee's private life might cause a little bad press, but FIRING the employee for his embarrassing (but legal) unintentional outing WILL cause a TREMENDOUS amount of bad press.

So when it happens to you, your boss will be thinking "Okay this is bad. Damage control time. DON'T FIRE HIM BECAUSE HE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG. What else?"