Savage Love

Daddy Issues


Oh, and the usual great advice, Dan.
I lost my brother about 2 years ago, TTMF, and it still sucks every time I meet somebody new, because small talk about family is standard. Another thing you can try, if it isn't even harder for you, is talking about your sibling in the past tense. A surprising number of people catch on and move on without bringing the loss up more directly. Another chunk of folks don't get it, but then we move on from the family talk pretty soon anyway, which is okay because then such a heavy subject can come up at a more appropriate time later on in the new friendship/relationship.

If it's somebody who ought to know you intimately enough to share your pain, there's no rush; you're under no obligation to do anything about it other than what feels right to you.
Dan, you've actually SEEN it work? Or you've been TOLD it works? The prurient voyeur in me wants to know!
Very enjoyable column, as usual.
I have a similar incest fantasy I role-play with my husband but he is a brother taking advantage of me...I've never had a brother. I think it would be creepy if it were someone besides a fiction but I think A LOT of people are turned on by this, because its a taboo and naughty and we are deeply repressed. :D Look at those V.C. Andrews books that go like hot cakes, and every single one of them are incest, rape and molestation fantasies in the dsiguise of novels.
Your advice to Concerned "Father" was totally off base!!!!

First, he needs to know if she is reenacting. At 50-something, if she has not mentioned that 'by the way, my daddy raped me', she has NOT processed it and dealt with it. Go talk to a counsellor that specializes in working with rape and incest victims. I doubt you will listen or accept what they say because it does not fit your agenda. I have been a faithful reader for years, but this about blows it. If you can't see what is wrong with your answer here, your almost as bad as Santorum and the other pieces of shit sex-nazis, just of a SLIGHTLY different mold.

For my own satisfaction, I will continue my tirade. This is from my years of dealing as a sociologist with the results of sexual abuse, and as an male childhood sexual abuse survivor.

Some people can go through one or two incidents of the sort in the scenario with only moderate emotional scarring. But that scenario plays like something that would be part of an on-going pattern that almost inevitably leaves deeply ingrained emotional scars.

The worst case 'scenario' for what is REALLY going on is that she has some degree or variety of dissociative identity disorder (multiple personalities) and he isn't really have sex with the wife he knows. More likely, she is using this to scenario like many abuse victims do alcohol or drugs to 'numb out' their feelings and deny any responsibility (and mental involvement) in having sex, which has to be dirty, wrong, evil, degrading, even violent, etc. The logic may not seem to be there to you. And it would take WAY TO MUCH TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU in this sort of comment.

The reenacting may lead to great sex for now. It is almost certain to be actually driving a wedge in the the relationship that may well blow it to bits... IF his wife ever really tries to deal with her abuse.
The most disturbingly creepy thing in the first letter is the fact that the letter-writer felt the need to identify himself as "white."

Although having to use his actual father-in-law's real name is icky, too.

But I suspect that Daddy/Little Girl incest fantasies are pretty common. It's an extension of an already eroticized relationship/interaction. But it is a fantasy that is embarrassing to own up to, partly because it does seem so creepy and partly because people start assuming that is is really part of one's past history.
If he was into mermaid porn and had a persistent mermaid fantasy which he asked his wife to indulge through role play, would anyone assume that somewhere in his past he had had a sexual interaction with a mermaid?
Turned on by fiction is one thing... Reenacting a sexually abusive childhood is playing with dynamite.

This just hits my hot button, so I will sign out for now and see if I have the stomach to read the next column.
You don't have to be a douche, but it's only as hard as you make it to tell someone "Look, you're killing it, cut it out." If you make it a big deal, please believe it's gonna be a big deal. If you go low-key, consistent, and keep it upbeat, it goes over a lot smoother. Most sex partners want to please, and something as trivial as the sounds being made is easy to change; it's simply a matter of habit.

As for the chick who wants to be fucked by her dad: yeah, everybody's got their kinks but that doesn't mean you have to be party to that shit. The whole thing would be pretty pat if it weren't for the fact that she has you taking on the persona and nom-de-guerre of her RL father while she is apparently not roleplaying (!). It's great she's got a good handle on her kinks, but it's time to A. talk about what makes BOTH OF YOU comfortable, and B. figure out whether or not there's something else going on here.

If there's no other problems, you might suggest you adopt a fake name of "a father" while she adopts the fake name of "a daughter". At least then it's firmly in the role of fantasy and you can look at your in-laws without warped mental games going on. The lone caveat is that perhaps your wife is enjoying this boundary-blurring, and if she loses interest without the pretense of "real incest", you might want to go ahead and repick your wife. That's a handful of fucked up that won't be contented to stay in your private life; it's already not.
JustPassingBy, you are making too many assumptions, the first ones being that CF's wife is in her 50s and that they have known each other a long time. CF states that HE is in his 50s. She could be 22 for all you know, and they could be newlyweds. I think you make a lot of assumptions about the sexual abuse of CF's wife, based on nothing more than a fantasy as described by her husband. Dan's advice is on target. I'm not condoning sexual abuse in any way, but believe it or not, some survivors come through it with less trauma than you. (I'm sorry about your abuse.)
You know, she may not have been abused. Like many have said, incest is taboo and forbidden. Some people like that. I personally have never been abused, but one of my big mastubatory fantasies is having to do with a step father taking advantage of me. It just gets me off. The husband should ask about it because she may have some unresolved issues, but she also could just be getting off.
JustPassingBy, the letter writer clearly said that he didn't know if his wife had been abused or not. Plenty of people have rape fantasies who have never been raped (the majority, actually) just as many people have incest fantasies who have never had incest. Fantasies don't have to be based in reality; in fact, the best ones aren't. You're reading way too much into this because of what happened to you, for which I am very sorry.
Ears Plugged, it's also harder to make TLBKGS when you're gagged. Juuuuuust an idea.
Oh, also: @5, I'm like you and have similar fantasties, but they're not about my ACTUAL parents / brother. That's kind of weird and, imho, points to reinacting real abuse.

However, that in no way means it should stop! If she's able to take posession of what was done to her and flip it into something that really gets her off, more power to her!

Enough with the acronyms, Dan. So lame. Just call people by the first word of the nom-de-plume they give you. Sheesh.
"A small handful of rape victims develop fantasies about rape role-play scenarios, an even smaller number of Holocaust survivors developed Nazi role-play fantasies... Sometimes our erotic imaginations are as inexplicable as they are powerful."

Ummm, inexplicable? Dan, don't you get that these exemplify the explicability of our erotic imaginations?
WOAH, 1st time I think I have better advice! Er, actually its more of an addendum to TTMF's advice.

I think he should pepper in some emotionally strong situations before unloading such a thing, Or maybe waiting 1 more month.

My fear is that those lube bottle people you mentioned might come in the form of "Let me help you with your grief" creep/co-dependent people. Something that is always a factor but with his brothers death really recent, could become a bigger problem.

What is the turn around from mailing to publishing on these letters, maybe its already been a month and he is fine now.
First, Ears Plugged does need to tell her fiancé about here problems about the noises he makes during sex, but she may also need to recognize that this may be a problem that can't be solved. I was on the other side of the problem for 30+ years of marriage. My husband would tell me that I was breathing "wrong" during sex. Apparently I held my breath and then would gasp and this would take him out of the moment. I tried to make certain that I would breathe "right" during sex, but all that did was make me pay attention to how I was breathing the entire time we were fucking and I couldn't let myself go so that I could come. Then my husband would get angry because he was unsatisfied if I didn't come.

I don't think your fiancé is deliberately making the noises he makes to annoy you. He may not even be aware of making them. This may be an issue you both need to work on in order to reach a compromise. Having to constantly monitor yourself during sex to make sure you don't do something you don't even realize you are doing does not make for good sex either.

I don't have good advice, I guess. Just realize that you may need to find some compromise between making him stop his behavior and putting up with it. I do wish you luck.
The kitten sounds lady sounds like she's just looking for an excuse to end it. She put up with it for a year before finding it annoying? No, I'm sure it minorly annoyed her always, and now that she's no longer in love with this guy, she's blowing it out of proportion. My bet is that she takes none of this advice and leave the guy, probably telling everyone exactly her "reason," thus embarrassing him and causing him emotional pain.
First, Ears Plugged does need to tell her fiancé about here problems about the noises he makes during sex, but she may also need to recognize that this may be a problem that can't be solved. I was on the other side of the problem for 30+ years of marriage. My husband would tell me that I was breathing "wrong" during sex. Apparently I held my breath and then would gasp and this would take him out of the moment. I tried to make certain that I would breathe "right" during sex, but all that did was make me pay attention to how I was breathing the entire time we were fucking and I couldn't let myself go so that I could come. Then my husband would get angry because he was unsatisfied if I didn't come.

I don't think your fiancé is deliberately making the noises he makes to annoy you. He may not even be aware of making them. This may be an issue you both need to work on in order to reach a compromise. Having to constantly monitor yourself during sex to make sure you don't do something you don't even realize you are doing does not make for good sex either.

I don't have good advice, I guess. Just realize that you may need to find some compromise between making him stop his behavior and putting up with it. I do wish you luck.
First, Ears Plugged you do need to tell yourfiancé about here problems about the noises he makes during sex, but you also need to recognize that this may be a problem that can't be solved easily.

I was on the other side of the problem for 30+ years of marriage. My husband would tell me that I was breathing "wrong" during sex. Apparently I held my breath and then would gasp and this would take him out of the moment. I tried to make certain that I would breathe "right" during sex, but all that did was make me pay attention to how I was breathing the entire time we were fucking and I couldn't let myself go so that I could come. Then my husband would get angry because he was unsatisfied if I didn't come.

Your fiancé may not be deliberately making the noises he makes during sex. In fact he may not even be aware of making them. This may be an issue you both need to work on in order to reach a compromise. Having to constantly monitor yourself during sex to make sure you don't do something you don't even realize you are doing does not make for good sex either.

I don't have good advice, I guess. Just realize that you may need to find some compromise between making him stop his behavior and putting up with it. I do wish you luck.
Maybe she can just encourage her man to be MORE vocal in the sack and change the kitty-noises into more manly sounds if he gets a little more oompf behind them - that seems like it might be an easier route before having to level with someone about the sounds they make needing to "stop" - like the woman with the husband who had issues with her breathing (really, dude??), it might be better to work with him to try to change it rather than making it a "your issue" kind of thing. I don't know. I'm with her, though - those kitty-sounds are a huge bummer.
I dunno, I kinda feel like if the relationship was solid, the whole baby kitten noises wouldn't bother her. Is this overly idealistic? I mean, it's not a hygiene issue. It's not something that affects her directly physically. It's just a noise that appears to be involuntary.

My impression is that it affects her view of his masculinity, which then annoys her/kills her desire. Maybe she should take a closer look at how she views his masculinity in general and possibly her views on gender in general BEFORE she brings this issue up with him. Basically, I feel like before she makes this guy self conscious about his involuntary physical reaction, she should make sure this isn't some deeper underlying issue in the relationship and that it is indeed a sustainable relationship. She could also have doubts about the marriage and be looking for a fatal flaw.

But if it really is just a noise, she should definitely talk with him about it in a respectful way. Very respectful. He's going to feel pretty weird that she's waited a couple years to bring up something that bothers her so much.

"tiny little baby kitten girl sounds" Um, ok...just what the heck are those? I mean: I'm trying to imagine that sound. I'm a guy who likes girly women and I'm not sure what I'd make of that either! Good luck to EP!

I have had the uncomfortable experience of being where Concerned Father is - and if you're not a real life creep/[socio|pscyo]-path - the "take a shower now" ick factor can be intense. It prompted me to go read up on the whole BDSM phenomenon of bondage as therapy for abuse. My partner was honest with me about the details of what happened to her - before we got very far into our play - and that made it possible for me to get the reassurances that I needed to avoid the ICK feeling.

I am not very sure of the theraputic soundness of working through the long shadow of her experiences in this way, but it was very empowering and gratifying sex for her.

Good advice from Dan.
It takes a while for new comments to appear. Please don't repeat your post three times.
Dan: As a regular reader of your column, I'm used to some pretty stomach-turning correspondence, but a guy making tiny little baby kitten girl sounds, that's more than I can take.
Aww... the one time (so far) that my boyfriend has made girly sounds during sex, I found it really hot because I identified with it -- I knew exactly how I'd be feeling if I were making sounds like that! Then again, I am just a touch bisexual, so maybe that helps.
I agree with no.24, being turned off by the girlie noises could well be a sign that she's actually turned off by a general lack of masculinity, or maybe an imbalance in the relationship.

I had a long-term partner who managed to dampen even my heroic sex-drive with his tendency to take on a feminized role. At first I noticed it in little things like his voice, which became a little girlie when he was talking about his feelings or when he was turned on... but later I realized it was part of a pattern in the relationship.
Yes, it is possible that the "kitten noises" are just her projecting her annoyance at this guy onto something other than the REAL issue.

It's also possible that she's just got cold feet about making such a huge commitment and she's looking extra close at minor irritations and faults.

It's also possible that the only reason it didn't annoy her before was because they were in the "honeymoon" phase of the relationship and she was still so head-over-heels that her infatuation was stronger than her irritation.
Sometimes we can control or change our responses and sometimes we can't. And sometimes, like the woman who breathed "wrong," trying to be conscious takes us too far out of the moment to let go and surrender. My ex-husband made this face which turned me so far off I became disgusted. I felt like I couldn't reasonably ask him to monitor his facial expressions during sex. My "solution" became to close my eyes--which felt forced and distancing.

He may not be able to change his baby kitten mews; he may become so self-conscious that it kills their4 sex life. But her current attempt to deal with this problem will definitely break them up, so she's got nothing to lose by being (kindly) honest and talking about it with him.

Maybe her disgust does stem from her feelings that he isn't masculine enough or some other, deeper issue, but asking him to stop the girlish kitten-squeals are at least a good place to start.
@ 24 - does it seem realistic to you for the woman to rework her entire view of masculinity and what turns her on? Really?

Because to be honest and address the issue seems like it would be a lot easier on both of them than for her to try to "take a closer look at how she views his masculinity in general and possibly her views on gender in general."

Attraction isn't something you can just analyze into being. If you're not turned on by girly noises, no amount of reconsidering her views on gender will suddenly make them sexy to her. It'd be equally silly to say that a heterosexual guy should just deal and learn to find it sexy if his GF were making Tim Allen's man grunt noises whenever they were in bed.

Although I do agree that the underlying reason for the noises becoming unbearable is likely to be problems in the relationship, not just the sounds themselves. Personally, that guy never would have made it to round two if he were whimpering like a girl the first time in bed!
Wow! So the stop trick is some kind of negative reinforcement pseudo-conditioning super-mojo!
I am the only person who finds little baby kitten sounds absolutely sexy? I interpret that they come from so much pleasure that you just can't help but moan and whine, no matter how much you try to make the sound go away. And I agree with other commentators that Ears Plugged seems to be seriously hung up on gender, in a way that I find extremely disturbing and painful (probably more disturbing than EP finds the little baby kitten sounds). Dan, you should have addressed EP's gender issues!
I once had to stop the action mid-makeout and ask my boyfriend to turn off the cast album of the musical Chicago that was playing.
@EP: Level with him, because I'll tell you what's going on in his head.

"She's not into me any more. What is it? Am I not interesting anymore? Is she getting it somewhere else? Is she gay? She says she loves me, so what's the deal?"

Once he knows what's killing things, he can stop worrying about having to compete with the hot red-head next door, or whatever scenarios he's imagining.
My dad died when I was around that age and I spent a lot of energy trying not to be "different" from all the happy-go-lucky kids who were untouched by grief.

The letter-writer should absolutely enter counseling, but should also be sure to seek out drop-in centers or groups that deal with loss, esp if there are likely to be people his age. (In NY, Friends in Deed is great.) It's a lot easier to be around people who have also had their world rocked in some way like this, and at 23 not many have. Since he's gay, he may find other young gay men who have experienced loss in HIV-related groups, or there may be others that appeal to him. His loss might not be due to the same causes, but he'll likely find that people around him know what he's been through. Also a sense of community around the fragility of human life can be helpful. If he finds a few friends like that, he may meet someone who has a similar experience. Or, he might find friends who understand, thus filling an important role, and he may then be able to date people who don't quite know what grief is about yet.

Dan, I know you lost your mom not long ago, as did I. But in the early 20s when no one knows what's up with that and few of your friends are mature enough to get it? It's super-helpful to have a group that does, where it's just part of your normal life. I wish I had had one then. TTMF, don't hide your grief (but don't dwell on it too much in front of the grief-virgins) and make sure you find friends who have been there. It'll make dating and everything else easier.
@JustPassingBy (7): Did you read a different column to me? Because it sounded like Dan told CF to probe the issue. It sounded like he pointed out the "huge potential consequences" if there was real trauma here.

It sounds like you were taking issue with the fact that he didn't recommend CF drag his wife straight into therapy. I'm a survivor of abuse too, but of a very different sort. I experienced an armed home invasion and attempted murder. That's not the abuse I'm talking about: the abuse I suffered was being forced through several psychiatrists and psychologists trying to treat the "inevitable" PTSD I "must be suffering". Once I finally hit a psychiatrist who told me that he thought my only problem was all the people telling me how mentally unwell I should be, I was sorted out in no time.

CF REALLY REALLY needs to not invent a mental health problem that doesn't exist. What he needs to do, exactly as Dan said, is probe the issue and be aware of the potential for major trauma.
Ick. CF deserves some sort of GGG award: plaque, certificate, or trophy. That's what Savage Love, Inc. should be selling instead of T-shirts.
Could Ears Plugged get her fiance to replace the obnoxious sounds with something else? Make him keep up a steady stream of dirty talk - hopefully he can`t talk and kitten-squeak at the same time.
@8, I didn't even notice that. But it's pretty common in many professions (ie healthcare, social service) to always identify people using age, sex, and ethnicity. So while it might seem creepy, I bet it's not even a big deal.
CF, your wife came to you and asked you to participate in a highly disturbing rape/incest fantasy. You agreed, and now 'the script' is repeating with increasing frequency. You are creeped out and worried. And yet you have never even said as much as, "Can we have a talk about this some time, honey? I'm worried about you."?! Seriously, what color is the sky on your planet?
I have quite a few more ideas for "Ears Pluggled" if her husband can't kick his kitten noises habit:

--She could try, you know, actually plugging her ears. You can buy earplugs at your local drugstore that will cut down a huge amount of outside noise.
--Or, better, yet, she could stick her iPod earpieces in her ears and listen to sexy music. Should drown the noise right out.
--Perhaps her husband would enjoy a gag of some sort.
--Or she could try having her husband make deliberate sounds during sex, like having him make manly, loud grunts on purpose. Sometimes it's easier to replace the sounds with other sounds rather than just try to stay quiet.
--A variation on this theme: they could try dirty talk. He'll make fewer mewls if he's talking.
--She could try vocalizing loudly herself (if you can't beat'em, join'em!). It could help her get into the spirit of the thing more, and perhaps would draw her focus away from his sounds and more inwards.

Frankly, some of these solutions are so simple that I'm a little suspicious that she hasn't tried any of these before. Could it be that there is more to her sexual shutdown than the noises? Is she using it as an excuse? Presumably, he doesn't make those noises while sleeping, so why are they sleeping in separate bedrooms? Something to ponder.
@23: I don't think any of those solutions are likely to work. Wearing earplugs or earphones during sex would just be weird, & send a clear message (whether intended or not) that she's totally bored & ignoring him. Many people don't enjoy a gag, or don't like dirty talking enough to do it nonstop the whole time they're fucking. & if she can theoretically "get him to" make "loud manly grunts," it should be even easier to get him to stop squeaking, which is her true desire.

@42: Sheesh! The letter writer says he's only done this role-play "a few times." When a partner presents you with fantasy or kink that's new to you, it's generally considered GGG/good form to devote your energy to learning how to do it right, & reassuring said partner that you don't think she's a disgusting freak for mentioning it. Busting out "I AM WORRIED THAT YOU ARE A TRAUMATIZED INCEST VICTIM" could undermine those goals. Anyway, CF wrote in to Dan because he's not sure how best to deal with the situation. That's how advice columns work... the letter-writers don't have all the answers & could use some advice. It seems a little clueless to insult someone because they sought an informed opinion.
Ok, does ANYONE else want to know if CF and his wife have kids? Because if they do, then they might have bigger problems than the squick factor at Thanksgiving dinner.
You're awesome, as always. Great column!
Men making girly noises is really hot. If you don't want him, lady, send him over to me.
"I avoid sex (we usually don't even sleep in the same bed, although we live together)"

The issues are much much much more deeper than the sounds. The marriage is headed for disaster and if it is not the noise, it is the breath, it will be other things.
Discuss with your hubby his habit you are uncomfortable with in a way that is respectful but i do not know i have a hint that you do not respect him either....
To the hubby ( if he reads the column), your partner has fallen out of love with you part with her...
@44: Sure, be open to new stuff, give it a cheerful go if you can, whatever. But it seems reaaaally odd that he would agree to participate in this fantasy, be highly concerned but not be able/allowed to initiate a conversation about it. A gentle, general enquiry about her wellbeing, not freaking out. I don't see why GGG should mean you have to pretend every possible thing your partner can come up with is equally peachy to you. That's just fake.
Speaking of kittens, all three letters this week are boring as catshit!
@34, I know - that was kinda where I was coming from in some ways. I tend to date guys who have a lot of stereotypically hypermasculine qualities - though they are not what you would call stereotypical men in any way - but when I can elicit "girly" noises from them, I know I'm doing something pretty spectacular.

I'm not saying she shouldn't talk to him about this, but I think she should understand fully why it's bothering her before she does that. Putting it into context might take care of the problem.

And as someone with severe ADD (with a mild side of OCD), I have a lot of personal tics that are very hard to control. So far, nothing's shown up in the bedroom that has bothered anyone. But when I'm having sex with someone I kinda like the fact that I can let my freak flag fly - even if that just means making whatever noises I want to. So I feel for the guy described in this letter. I do wonder how he hasn't picked up on it though...

I think the problem is that she objects to the very concept of him being less than entirely masculine. Her distaste of the noise itself is probably more a symptom of an underlying issue than the whole problem. I'd bet that there's also an issue of 'who's on top', of 'who initiates sex' and of 'who's the more dominant role'.

Lots of women I've known have associated masculinity with dominance, and control (for better or worse). So, what she's objecting to as a little girl kitten noise is (I'd wager) really about some deeper gender issues between them. Maybe he likes pretending to be a little boy (or girl) during sex, and what makes it satisfying for him is that fantasy. His fiance, obviously, would never go for that.

I don't get Dan's advice here, though. It's somewhat incongruous of him to say that she should just be "honest", since time and time again he's told people to (essentially) suck it up and find a real solution to the problem. Trying to alter his behavior to suit her needs is kind of bullshit if she's not willing to try to alter her behavior and beliefs to suit his. My advice to him (when he inevitably writes back about this 'full stop' bullshit) will be to give her exactly what she wants, for a while, and then do the same thing to her. Start giving her satisfying sex, then stop and demand she let him moan like a little girl kitten.

Turnabout is fair-play, and I think she's just being a bitch.

I can sort of buy it. I mean, if my girlfriend grunted like a linebacker during sex, it'd be a big turn-off, but that seems like something that should have been obvious before getting engaged. And to pull the selfish bullshit of "change your behavior to please me, or I'm gone" is just sadistic. It's emotional blackmail of the worst kind, and I'm perturbed that Dan would not only stand for it, but suggest it.

None of us get to make demands of our partner's for sex, at least not if we're decent people, we don't get to leverage it to alter behavior. If making kitten noises makes it pleasurable to him (or is something he can't avoid), it's up to her to either fix herself, or leave him the hell alone. Cruelly ordering him to fix himself for her is something none of us should abide.


Imagine for a moment that she had some quirk (or lack of quirk) during sex that made it less pleasurable for him. Maybe she doesn't like the same kinks, and he really wants to pretend to be a little baby girl while she pegs him. Would you ever accept it as reasonable that he (even kindly and non-accusatorially) said "this vanilla sex thing is turning me off, I need you to start pegging me while I pretend to be a baby girl"? Hell no. You'd think he was being way too selfish, to try to force his weird and freaky kinks on her against her will.

What's the difference? I never thought I'd read comments here that seemed so drenched in heteronormative standards, where it's reasonable to say "your feminine sounding moans turn me off, change them".
like a car wreck, i am back to see the responses to my insults...

1-- @11 says i make too many assumptions? To respond to the editted version of any of these letters, you make assumptions. Or, you refuse to make assumptions and make vague comments that are meaningless. If this were a 22 year old, or a new wife, or both, making sure she wasn't an abuse victim reenacting is EVEN MORE IMPORTANT.

2-- A big part of my problem is that Dan spends a chunk of time telling the girl how to talk to a guy making kitten sounds but has never mentioned how to ask or deal with someone who has physical/sexual abuse in their past, with problems persisting into their relationship. 10-20% of adult males and females were sexually abused before age 15. and there are some studies that suggest that PTSD 'only' strikes one-third to two-thirds of trauma victims (for @38). So that gives a range of 3-12% of the population are likely to have abuse related problems.

Realistically, Dan's advice is just lame and i also overreacted.

But, Dan, you would do well talking about how to deal with the 'i was physically/sexually abused' conversation. Maybe i have just missed it. If so, i am sorry.
smaller number of Holocaust survivors developed Nazi role-play fantasies

really? I gotta think the Holocaust is fetish proof for everyone that isn't themselves a nazi; & survivors? No fucking way.
@55 Sorry, but that is for real. Literally, as they were starving to death, some of the death camp inmates were trying to imitate the guards. It is much like the "Stockholm Syndrome" where the hostages start worrying about the safety and protecting the very people that had taken them hostage.

That sort of role reversal and reenactment is similar (not the same) as how an abuse victim becomes an abuser.
Check out "The Night Porter" (1974)
earplugs should make a show of putting--er--earplugs in before sex. when and if he asks why, she can say "oh, i use these because of the baby kitty girlie noises you make when we fuck. do you want me to stop using the earplugs? then i'll be needing you to change the timbre of you sex noises, as it's just such a turn-off for me. your choice."
@58: Passive-aggressive shit like that would piss me off to no end. She should ovary up and just tell him how big an issue it is, like Dan suggested.
Did people miss this? "I have brought it up before, but it sounds so stupid, and then he gets self-conscious and I feel bad."

All this talk about how she needs to tell him the truth seems to be a reading comprehension fail. She did tell him the truth. Simply telling him didn't work. Now she needs to find additional strategies.

My opinion, EP, is that if you are going to try the "full stop" treatment, you had better show him some pretty overt enthusiasm about the idea of sex with him -- before, during, after, and at other times of day. All the messages you have been sending for quite some time are to the effect that you find him repulsive. With that as his base environment, he has no incentive to change. Given your more-than-evident lack of desire for him, I'm surprised HE isn't the one writing in, wondering if he should call off the wedding and dump you.

So, no more avoiding sex. If you want him to change to suit you, you need to indicate that you are actually eager for what is to come. I think it would be fair to expect you to initiate regularly and enthusiastically, to indicate that. No more sleeping in separate rooms -- unless you honestly lose sleep in the same bed, and even then, make a point of seeking him out for sex or cuddles before retiring somewhere that you can go be unconscious. No more being noticeably signed out during the act.

Yes, some of that may require some behavior mod from you. If you expect him to consciously change his behavior to make things work for you, you can share the burden of making it worth his while, by consciously changing yours during the training period.
Someone made a good point about how one's personal traumas can somehow manifest themselves later on as sexual fantasies. You figure the sex drive and anger are so intertwined that, while anger towards trauma and wanting to do the nasty are two distinctly-different things, the cauldron that fuels them isn't. Hey, I prolly have a few Daddy fantasies up my sleeve, but not as anyone re-enacting being my own father (he's dead, and even if he wasn't, I'd pick some other template for the Daddy Fetish).. If you are with someone who gets you enough to know that its just something that gets you hot, and that you Don't have a desire really to f*** your family members.. It all depends.

The lady about the kitten noises her guy makes: I think she's affronted by what she could consider his demonstrating un-masculine traits during a masculine act such as a man and his woman making love. Someone said the lady's just being a bitch. I second that. She's inverting the ol' play of "I'll just make him hate me so he'll dump me first although I really just want to dump him, but I don't have a good enough reason to." The lady's a c***. I hope she doesn't get any for a year, how 'bout that? ;-D

The one guy whose sibling passed away recently: you have my compassion man. At this point, although having enough objectivity to is tough enough with all that grief can bring, it'd be best to be sure to align yourself with people who have a sympathetic, kind aura to them, if you will. Someone who will listen, and, furthermore, understand what you're going through. You'll find your way, and I wish you the best. Take care everyone. CB
@6, in reference to the spankers and biters... yeah. No accounting for quirks, but if it's too much for me and too fast... no. Reminds me of the guy who REALLY got off on hair pulling... second date, we're making out in the hallway, and he starts yankin away. Sorry but there are some things you need to phase in a little more slowly!

Having said that - I LOVE Dan's "full stop" advice. He probably doesn't even know he's doing it. Recondition him and I betcha the problem goes away.
Truly disgusting. I can't believe they let commie perverts like you guys run a paper. This great country deserves better
Meow meow
@63 & 64: SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!

Great advice as usual, Dan.
@54: Good points, all. I just wanted to point out (in 38) that you can do as much harm by "inventing" a mental condition that doesn't exist as you can by ignoring one that does.

I guess, as a sex advice columnist, Dan did point out the mental health aspect which is VERY important to keep in mind, but he focused on the sex advice bit.
my father was loving, but harsh by the day's standards with physical discipline (hard spankings). i was never sexually abused in any way shape or form by anyone...but that first letter sent me masturbating - one can have these fantasies without any history of sexual abuse. as dan says, desires can be explicable.
i hope she realizes how LUCKY she is to have such an accommodating partner.
Wow, how fucking petty can Ears Plugged be? He's been making these noises since you first met him and, in the flush of first passion, it didn't bother you. But now that you're "settling down" it suddenly becomes this huge issue? Seems like there's something else going on.
Second, of course, is that if you say, "Hey, your sex noises are creeping me out" you can kiss his boner goodbye because 1. they probably aren't voluntary and 2. he'll be thinking of your massive disapproval during sex rather than getting off. And the one thing that kills sex faster than anything is criticism. So...yeah, good luck there Peppermint Petty.
Speaking as a dyed-in-the-wool dyke, I find -women- doing loud kitten noises offputting in the extreme.

@68, yeah, people do put up with a lot of stuff in the hormonal honeymoon phase. And yes, it's annoying when you come out of it to realise that behaviour X is really super-irritating. But these things happen. Also, like a constant drop of water, it may be insignificant at first, but become increasingly more painful.

So, yeah, it's worth trying Dan's advice, although I'd probably have "the talk" in advance to let him know what's going to happen. Hopefully he will break the habit, although it may be it'll be very difficult for him. Although amazingly enough, in my experience, even the most noisy people can generally manage to have almost silent sex under their parents' roof. Retraining yourself isn't impossible. What others have suggested about encouraging him to substitute different sounds may be good too.
If the wife of the guy in the first letter is much younger (and I think she probably is), I'd be even more worried. They say women like to marry their fathers, but wtf.

I didn't care for Dan'd advice. If the woman was raped by her father and is re-enacting with a father substitute, it needs to stop NOW. For about a million reasons!

I am a female survivor of sexual abuse. Abuse by my father. You, too, are hitting one of my hot buttons. You see, I have force fantasies, and there is very little that can make me angrier faster than an individual rearing his or her head and declaring that if someone who was abused has fantasies that relate to their abuse, then that person must be damaged and must not be allowed to make their own sexual choices. I'm not sure that you're saying this, but it's what I'm hearing. "If she has been sexually abused by her father, then her husband should not do these roleplay sessions with her, even if that's what she says she wants." That's what you seem to be saying. I apologize if I'm wrong. I tried to read your comment with a clear head, but I don't know if I succeeded.

Whatever the case may be, let me tell you, as a sexual abuse survivor, being told that my sexual fantasies are unacceptable because they result from my being a damaged sex abuse survivor is incredibly painful. I spent years going through therapy, taking medication, and working on myself to get to a point where I was functional, and that did not include viewing my sexual desires as some kind of injury that I needed to change.
I have to agree with the 'This is massively uncomfortable and likely dangerous to her mental health' crowd. As an abuse survivor myself, the very idea sends huge warning bells through me. Even accidental reenactments can bring on flashbacks: I shudder to think of what deliberately -trying- to push those buttons would do. As to how you 'accidentally reenact': Having your SO bring in a third you're pressured to accept and who has way too many similarities in preferred positions and looks to the abuser, for one. Thats how it happened for me. My ex never even noticed I was in flashback till the third noticed the whimpering and my whispering 'I'm sorry, I'll be good' over and over. It was pretty shattering for me.
I will consider buying the Savage Love iPhone app when the ad copy for it is changed from "Fresh Smut Everyday" to "Fresh Smut Every Day."

Thank you for your kind attention to this matter.
Maybe this guy started making TLBKGS for himself when he was a masturbating, single dude, because he likes cartoon porn/anime girls or whatever, and making those sounds for himself put him in the mood when porn was not readily available. Now he doesn't know how to stop. Maybe she could try making TLBKGS instead and see if that satisfies his subconscious need to associate those sounds with the sexual act.
obvious solution for Ears Plugged: ball gag. nuff said.
There is no such thing as a gratuitous-mid-fuck-ass-spank.
from age 7 onwards, i was a pedophile MAGNET. neighbors, family friends, grandfather, uncle... never my father, thank god.
i am now a 39 year old woman, and the only thing that really gets me off is re-enacting the abuse in my mind, or role-playing daddy type fantasies.

i have had years & years of therapy to deal with what happened and the shame i have felt for getting off on the fucked up memories.
i cannot help that my very first sexual encounters were sick and fucked up. i cannot help that my brain hard-wired itself to be aroused by the very incidents that almost destroyed me.

i choose to not traumatized by these memories anymore. when i use them in fantasies, i am the one in control, the one who wants it. we all deal with abuse in different ways. some women are turned off by sex/men completely... ..some become hyper-sexual. there is no right or wrong. we are all just humans trying our best to deal with the shit we've been dealt.
@71 and 77,
Thank you both for your eloquent, heartfelt comments. You said what I was trying to say.
If sexual abuse survivors can find a way to live happily without perpetuating the abuse on other children, NOBODY has the right to judge them.
@70 I said this a little earlier to someone else, but I would like to rephrase. While I understand that you have only the best intentions, I don't think you know what it feels like to be told that you do not have the right to make your own sexual decisions because you have been "damaged" by someone else forcing themselves on you sexually. I'm a survivor of childhood sexual abuse by my father, and I have force fantasies. It triggers me (kind of like a flashback) when people say something along the lines of, "I know what is best for you, so I'm going to determine how you can have sex, no matter what you say." I had enough that of that from my abuser. If you want to avoid traumatizing survivors of sexual abuse, it is important that you not try to make their sexual decisions for them. If this woman wants to have roleplay that involves force, that is her decision. You'll only cause harm if you say, "Well, if a NORMAL woman wants to have force-roleplay, that's fine, but if a SEXUAL ABUSE VICTIM wants to have force-roleplay, she clearly is damaged and must not be allowed to do anything that might harm herself."

@78 Thank you. ^_^
if kitten-man's meow;s are too much for her to handle, she might consider TALKING TO HER PARTNER IN AN OPEN,HONEST way and try to find a way for both of them to be happy. maybe go to a sex therapist,sex club? a little effort could go along way to emotional and sexual happiness(but only if BOTH sides act adult and mature). or maybe, turn on a radio,t.v., porno to mask his sounds if you can't come into a solution.
The meowing man was a strange follow up to the pedophile role play, but the advice in both cases was sound. These are difficult issues involving embarassment and failure to communicate. Intimacy often involves a level of discomfort as we rub up against the unfamiliar. We will never be able to peer into our partner's soul and we should probably be glad of that.
Ears Plugged got off easy. I'm trying to imagine the reality in which my partner could tell me what my "right" sex sounds are and not end up looking at a looooong dry spell.

1 - They're the noises your husband makes when you're rocking his world. That's a good thing. Shifting your attitude can make it a hot thing, too.

2 - What kind of sounds is he allowed to make? Manly grunts? Manly silence? Manly profanity? Why do you get to decide? How is that being a GGG partner? Because having your partner enforce gender norms on you in bed is not much of a turn-on.

3 - Something else is not working in your relationship. Lack of desire can turn all kinds of kinks/sounds/quirks into dealbreakers. It also fuels the kind of disdain that reeks from your letter. Figure out what's keeping your passion in check and get it worked out, because when you're aroused, making a grown man mew like a kitten is going to be fun again.
You rock.
I've been the top guy in an abuse fantasy. There's an aspect of this you didn't mention: The emotional damage to the faux abuser. After months in an intensly sexual relatioinship I found that I was profoundly effected by my role as abuser, that it started to change my personality and that i didn't like the implications of my 'role' as it seeped into our nonsexual life and self-image in general. Caution to all those S&M-curious.
You rock.
I've been the top guy in an abuse fantasy. There's an aspect of this you didn't mention: The emotional damage to the faux abuser. After months in an intensly sexual relatioinship I found that I was profoundly effected by my role as abuser, that it started to change my personality and that i didn't like the implications of my 'role' as it seeped into our nonsexual life and self-image in general. Caution to all those S&M-curious.
I'm a 23 year old woman who lately has been getting off on thoughts of daddy roleplay with no prior sexual abuse. With a little bit of introspection I found that I'm mostly drawn to the idea of having a stable, affectionate relationship and my mind equated those characteristics with a daddy-type figure. And judging by the negative comments about this, this kink is still seems quite taboo so I probably get off on that factor as well. :)

I'm not ashamed of this at all, nor do I desire this scenario in reality (unless the right guy shows up). I kinda envy the wife of 'Concerned Father'. If she's got the right state of mind for this kind of roleplay I hope she's having fun.
Please excuse me while I get my psych rant on.

#7 - Whoah. Let me say from my own background and career in psychology, you're overreacting in the extreme. Could something very fucked up have happened in her past, and could her husband be playing with a landmine? Yes. But that is not the only possibility, and even if it is the truth, going so far as to theorize that he's probably really fucking a multiple personality is completely uncalled for. Freak outs like that are what give so many people a bad impression of the psych community, AND what can fuck up families and relationships that were otherwise fine.

Childhood sexual abuse is a subject that our culture DOES NOT handle well and sanely. It is one of the hot button subjects that people tend to react to in the extreme, often causing more harm than good. I'm talking about the tendency to assume and react to the worst possible scenario if there was even a remote suspicion of abuse. Just saying this could get me burned at the stake in certain company. Is child sexual abuse one of the worst, most horrible crimes? YES. But people today react to it in the same way as medieval people reacted to the suspicion of witchcraft. This is the thought process that causes our society to make all kinds of horrific, irrational mistakes, from banning gay adoption to preventing non-acting pedophiles from seeking treatment, to taking children away from innocent parents based on foundless complaints by a jealous ex. If the very thought of possible abuse comes up, whether currently or in someone's past, it's considered justified to have a completely irrational reaction and treat it as an automatic worst case scenario. This kind of thinking has devastated peoples lives as surely as real abuse has. Our society sanctions it, because it's "for the children."

I should mention that over half of the psychological community does not believe that DID is a legitimate diagnosis, but a cultural construct and the result of suggestion. There is a great deal of evidence for this, such as the fact that DID "personalities" only tend to surface AFTER working with a therapist who believes that trauma results in DID, or the fact that incidents of the diagnosis spike when it becomes more visible in the popular media (United States of Tara, anyone?), that it is almost exclusively diagnosed in the US and a little in Canada, etc. There is plenty more, but anyone can research it if they really care.

Although creepy, being "raped" by a family member is a VERY COMMON adult fantasy, including fantasies about real family members. Assuming it stems from actual abuse isn't much different from assuming that a person with an anonymous rape fantasy must have been raped, or that a person who likes spanking must have been beaten as a child. Might she have actually been abused? Yes, just as many people who react with disgust to such a fantasy might have been abused. When people assume that there MUST be trauma, it causes trauma. I have seen this in action first hand. Thinking he should assume the worst and rush her to a shrink is the worst possible advice. How about just, oh, I don't know, TALKING TO HER like Dan suggested? If she says it's just a fantasy, you should take her word for it. Even if she's lying, assuming that she was abused anyway and pushing her about it can cause more harm than good. And if she was abused, but is currently healthy and happy, but left with this creepy fantasy? She is an adult now, not a child, and has just as much a right to make her own sexual decisions as anyone else. Likewise, her husband has an equal right to be fully informed, and both parties should know and accept the potential problems that it COULD (but might not) cause if it is based on a real scenario.

To end that tirade and go on to something more innocent - the TBKGN. Like others, I suspect that this is evidence of issues she may have with her fiance. Honestly, I'm surprised that Dan didn't say DTMFA. Let's look at the facts - she says the noises didn't bother her in the FIRST YEAR of their relationship, but now they do. It sounds like they got engaged after only a year. The first year is the time when all those new happy love chemicals are flowing, which allows people to be oblivious to all kinds of things that would be dealbreakers to them, from innocent TBKGN to abusive behavior. Research has shown that women who are losing interest in a man will often begin to find some arbitrary/uncontrolled part of him a huge turn off - usually it's his scent, but sex sounds could easily be another possibility. The fact that she can't even sleep in the same bed as him, just to sleep, because she can't stand the thought of sex with him is a huge red flag to me. We can probably all think of little things our partners do that drive us nuts, but if an arbitrary thing drives us this far, there's probably more going on. Maybe she needs to feel like her BF is hypermasculine as others have said, maybe she is using his TBGKN as a scapegoat for other negative feelings she's having towards him now, rather than face that the engagement was a mistake, or maybe she just honestly can't get into sex that involves TBGKN. It doesn't matter what exactly it is, I think that in the very least this is a sign that they should PUT THE MARRIAGE ON HOLD and examine their relationship, maybe call things off entirely. After reading Dan for years, I just can't wrap my mind around the number of people that had horrible sex problems BEFORE marriage, but decided to plow ahead full force. Fix things or call it off before you legally enmesh yourself with another person, please! Even if it's simply that you can't handle TBGKN, it's better to end a relationship for a reason that might seem shallow or arbitrary if you're being honest, than it is to feel bad about your reasons and tie both of you to a sexless marriage.
Spot-on. Well done this week, Daniel.
Who kidnapped Dan?

Imean, this is good advice but not very Dan like. Wouldn't the real dan tell to EP that she shouldn't marry an uncompatible man and that he should look for someone who likes TLBKGS or something like that?
I am a gay man with a similar problem to Ears Plugged. I am always the passive partner during intercourse and I like to make female sounding groans while its happening. The trouble is my active partner boyfriend started making the same sounds which was a huge turn off as I want him to very much be the man in the situation. But i have found it very counter productive to criticize during or about sex. So I just tried not making any sounds except when coming and now he has more or less stopped as well.
So it more or less solved the problem, touch wood.
@86 : I agree on all points.
I think that the 1st husband's main concern isn't about whether or not this is healthy for her. He seems ok with the fact that she wants this, and that it's not doing her any harm (and he's married to her, so he can probably tell). It's about the fact that it icks him out, and it's "increasing in frequency". I think he simply needs some reassurance from his wife that HE isn't abusing her, and that she still wants him when he's playing himself.
I think it has the potential to do HIM some damage if he doesn't get the reassurance he needs. I think the best thing to do is talk to her during a non-sexually charged time, and just explain that, while he's not weirded out by HER, and that he's really happy she can be so open about her fantasies, this fantasy is bringing up uncomfortable feelings for him, and that he needs some reassurance that she isn't going to start associating him with actual (non-play) abuse (historical or fantastical).

She can't be too surprised by such a talk. The woman must know this is creepy; that can't be news to her.
The full stop works. Almost every single time.

I absolutely LOATHE being spanked during sex and I make this clear before I'm ever naked with someone. However, the occasional guy forgets and smacks my ass. I use the full stop.....and it works.

I've only had one man smack my ass twice. He ended up on the porch, naked, with his clothes in his hands.
@58: worst advice ever. Just as 59 says.

@63: troll harder.

Great advice, Dan. I can't really see how EP hasn't figured out how to solve that problem, though. Seriously, just bring it up.
What's the big deal about incest? I was never forced into it. It just happened and I was too young to know that it was taboo. I was old enough to know that it felt good and I wanted as much as I could get.

Society has brainwashed the masses into believing that incest is a bad thing. Let me tell you that is not so. I had a relationship with my mother that lasted 53 years. We had 3 daughters together who eventually also became my lovers.

It depends on the relationship, and kind of on importance. Spanking (which is actual physical pain) is something it makes sense to say "nope, not gonna continue if you don't knock that off"; especially if you were upfront about your rules to begin with.

The woman in question here (EP) didn't lay down any ground rules, and so can't really expect to change up the dynamic now quite so definitively. I'm positively shocked that Dan gave her such an easy pass on what essentially amounts to "we're going to have sex on my terms, or not at all".

Imagine for a moment that her boyfriend really enjoyed some kinky fetish, and did the "full stop" method unless she agreed to let him choke her during sex (or whatever). Dan would be among the first to say "you don't get to force your partner like that". And yet, when it comes to the "kitten noises", she gets to sexually blackmail him. Bullshit.

Maybe it's that I've truly bought into the "if you're having sex with someone, you don't get to be manipulative about sex", but I don't accept withholding sexual favors as being a viable way to influence behavior; at least not if we're talking about two people in a relationship.
92: Dan's description does not seem to reconcile well with "ended up on the porch, naked, with his clothes in his hands." It's possible that it might take a couple of promptings during one session, especially with something apparently involuntary like "breathing wrong." More than twice, I can see you saying, "Look, you've killed the mood for me. Let's try again tomorrow." But naked on the porch with clothes in hand is not what you do to someone that you want to train to treat you the way you want to be treated. It's what you do to someone you never want to see again.

In your case with the slapping, I can see you getting angry on the second one, because he's clearly not listening and not taking you seriously. Also you already warned him in advance, so he technically got one full-stop before you even started. Still, I'm trying to imagine what you did to force him onto the porch so quickly. Hit him multiple times, maybe? Threw things at him? Seems a bit disproportionate to react to a mistake in sex play with genuine assault and battery.

95: There's a huge difference between "you don't get to do that because it turns me off" and "you are required to let me do that because it turns me on, even though it also turns you off."

This isn't about withholding sexual favors; it's about temporarily interrupting the actual session to let them know they are killing the mood for you. It's pretty hard to characterize something that happens during sex as withholding sexual favors. In your scenario the one performing the full-stop far more likely would be the woman, saying "take your hands off my neck," and then resuming where they left off.
CF's letter is one of the many reminders that "if it feels good, it's all good" and "proceed carefully because you may cut the wrong wire" are the two tensions in the scene, and what's *always* wrong is making one or the other the absolute truth to fit all people and situations.

CF's wife, like 71 and 79, may be just fine. But she may not be, and her husband has a responsibility through his love and commitment to her to find out. And as 83 astutely commented, there's usually 1 or 8 or more people involved in these fantasies, and the impact on *them* matters, too. I personally have always avoided roleplaying of this kind because I know myself and that it wouldn't be a good thing for me to do, even if all other lights were green. That's not true of everyone, but it's true of some.

Anyway, sincere good wishes to CF and his wife for a happy and healthy outcome.
I agree with 30 on the kitten noises. If everything else were going great this would not be a problem. It's cold feet and this is the easy thing to say. If she's really bothered by it, just frehch kiss him to shut him up when he's making them.

All right, you're probably a troll (at least, I hope like hell you're a troll), but I'll bite. If you were too young to know that incest was forbidden -- and I think that most kids are aware of this particular taboo by the time they hit the double digits -- then you were too young to give meaningful consent to sex. Period, full stop, end of story.

Also, there's a very good reason that incest between close relatives is almost universally reviled. Continue your experiment in genetic isolationism for a few more generations, and you can find out for yourself!
The sad thing is, he makes those sounds because he assumes they turn you on. You probably said something the first time, you probably thought those sounds to be "cute" at one time, and you've let him think this 'til now. Or else, his last partner liked it, or fakes it, so he assumes.

Do you fake it? You fake it, don't you!

Take some responsibility for your sex life now, before it's too late to not get a lawyer.
A small and basically inconsequential habit has suddenly become a huge turn-off too big to ignore. SOunds to me like the sex noises aren't the problem; the relationship is. A lot of the time, when a person is getting on our nerves, little things get blown out of proportion. He chews too loudly or she snorts when she laughs. Thes can be tiny endearing traits or they can be huge pet peeves, depending on whether they're just one bad straw or the one that broke the camel's back. She is having these feelings now, before the wedding, and it's such a huge turn-off that she can't bring herself to put in earplugs ("I find it distracting when traffic noises burst through my subconscious during sex") and fuck the man she claims to want to marry. In fact, she can't even enjoy the kitten-noise free first half of sex with him. She doesn't want to marry him. She should take this as a sign from above and move on because either this is a symbol of all that is wrong with the relationship, or she's such a perfectionist and so picky that this guy will never make her happy for a lifetime anyway. I mean, what if he gets old and his dentures slip when he talks, or his hip pops during sex, or he just plain ages poorly?
@86... I did come back and say I overreacted... i have been in a world of people who were badly damaged by abuse... i was pretty screwed up by my abuse. Witness @94 as an example of someone who thinks they were not screwed up by their abuse, or are more likely just a troll. ;-)

After reading responses like @79, and my own comment that not all 'trauma' victims develop PTSD, etc., i would accept that being 'healthy but still into sexual behavior that may be reenactment' is possible, but with some qualifications... like @84's comment about what being the dominant in an abuse roleplay sexual relationship did to him outside of the sex part.

Also, @86, i would agree that DID is overdiagnosed and misdiagnosed... but so isn't anything that can be labelled anymore, especially if there is a med still under patent for a company to run ads for the treatment.

I will repeat my suggestion for Dan to put together a column for partners, friends, etc., on how to handle the "sexually/physically abused" conversation. Most of what you see online or in books are what @71, @77, @78, and @79 are complaining about, the "you are damaged and need fixed" model. There needs to be a new middle ground, a new model for how to treat people who were or are being abused. We all will face it unless we put our heads in the sand.