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800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
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Yeah, he's "claiming" that was "to get read". Uh Huh.
Or maybe there's a reason beyond masturbation technique for why OPA is a 30 year-old virgin and doesn't even climax at all during his first sexual encounter.
I realize Dan has to take OPA at LW value, but I'm thinking, perhaps OPA, isn't really straight? I would ask what his fantasies/porn images were while he masturbated for 18+ years.
Gloria @ 45 -- Jon Stewart is 5'6"? But he projects such height! He had Arcade Fire on a while back and Win Butler just TOWERED over him -- thinking that JS was over 6 feet, I thought WB must be a freak of nature.
@67 -- no, the earth will not appreciate the making of ANY more babies, even short ones.
Very true. Height is, without question, the single most important physical characteristic in a man to the majority of women. (And then women turn around and condemn men for caring about how much women weigh, even though a person can do something about their weight, whereas a person can't do anything about their height.)
A good friend on mine who's gay was visiting from the East Coast a few years ago and I happened to mention this to him. He thought I was full of shit and I had a hard time convincing him otherwise. Then he went back home and ended up asking every woman he knew if height mattered to them. He called me and said "I apologize. You were right. Every woman I talked to except one said she wouldn't date a man unless he was taller than her. And the one exception said that the man had to be at least as tall as her. Some women said he had to be at least 3-4" taller."
I don't tend to hang around in (straight) bars or clubs. They mostly seem to attract shallow people with rigid gender-based expectations. The demographic rejecting BTL would consider me freakish for similar reasons. BTL should look for butch chicks at other types of venues, such as ones related to traditionally masculine hobbies.
I suspect the taller guy requirement some women have is part sexism, part insecurity, and possibly a bit of size queen-ism. We have that shitty smaller-is-better beauty ideal, and a tall man would make a woman look smaller. There also seems to be a misconception that a man's height has anything to do with penis size. From what I've seen, men's height is to dick size as women's height is to boob size. You can't assume anything.
@109: I was already aware of that, so I can't believe I JUST realized why there tends to be so many more white guy/Asian girl couples rather than white girl/Asian guy couples.
And while I get what you mean about the immutability about height, weight is something that can fluctuate due to all kinds of factors, and pretty much inevitably goes up with time if you don't fight it, whereas height is fixed (well, until into old, old age) ... so if someone hooks up with you regardless of your height, at least they won't leave you for that reason.
You don't have to work out three times a week to maintain your height, or worry that one day you'll wake up two inches shorter and your SO suddenly has a reason to find you unattractive.
As far as weight fluctuating due to all kinds of factors, the two main factors are diet and exercise. If shorter guys knew they could gain height, and therefore become appealing to more women, by eating healthy and getting a lot of exercise, I suspect that many would do that.
I've asked a lot of women why a taller man is that important to them. The answer is usually either "he makes me feel more safe and secure" or "he make me feel more feminine", or both.
There's nothing wrong with women only wanting to date taller men. Just like there's nothing wrong with a man only wanting to date Asian women or a woman only wanting to date black men. We all have our preferences. I just get tired of women criticizing men for wanting women who aren't overweight while giving a pass to all their sisters who want men who are tall.
I wish you the best of luck! :)
But most of them won't. Most would rather lament that men don't take the initiative with them (a typical example: the post below yours where a woman says "I don't get asked out much.") or chastise men for their lack of self-confidence or fear of rejection instead of being confident themselves, overcoming their own fear of rejection, and putting themselves out there.
Taking the initiative short-circuits that, somehow; what you gain in agency, you lose as an object of desire. As a friend once said to me:
"Ask him out? No way! Look, he's supposed to want me, and I get to decide whether he's good enough. That's the way it's supposed to work."
Of course that's a totally narcissistic attitude, but so is much of human behavior, both male and female. It's kind of like how many people expect their spouses/partners to read their minds when they're mad or want something. If they actually have to SAY what they want, somehow it doesn't count, or means that the other person doesn't truly understand them. "If you really loved me, you'd already KNOW what's the matter!"
Women really don't care that much about height. They don't care as much as men think, and they don't care anywhere *near* as much as *women* think!
It's very common for women to *say* they care about height, because that's what society says to care about. Your friend, being gay, may not have been aware of the large disparity between what women say they want and what they actually want: many women aren't even aware of it.
That's a good point... If you ask a woman (or a man) what they want, they'll probably just rattle off a description of some idealized Prince (or Princess) Charming. Maybe their own fantasy, maybe what they think their friends/society would envy. In practice, the majority of people are probably flexible and will try anyone they click with.
I find certain combos of features often turn my crank, but none of them are requirements. For example; people with dark hair, light eyes, and freckles leave me in a drooling stupor. However, there's plenty of people who possess none of those characteristics that also leave me in a drooling stupor. My point being; tallness is just one possible characteristic of many. When a woman says she finds tallness attractive, that doesn't necessarily mean she requires it.
I do agree with what kinseythree said, "when a woman says she finds tallness attractive, that doesn't necessarily mean she requires it" because there are always exceptions.
But I maintain what I wrote above, that height is the most important physical characteristic in a man to the majority of women.
And I don't believe at all that women say they want a tall (or taller-than-them) man because of what society says. I believe it's for the two reasons women have told me: a taller man makes them feel more secure and a taller man makes them feel more feminine (or both.)
I'm not as convinced as you are, however, that it's the main reason. I think lack of confidence and fear of rejection are the main reasons. In fact, the subtext of your friend's comment, "he's supposed to want me, and I get to decide whether he's good enough", is that she wants to do the rejecting (or approving.) She can't handle being the one who's vulnerable and might be rejected.
I was on a message board/forum with mostly women about five years ago. We were discussing this issue and most of the women admitted they were not just afraid, but terrified, of initiating something with a man they were interested in and being turned down. A couple of the women said they had done it, been turned down, and were "devastated." The part that I thought was cool was that a couple other women said they met their husbands that way, by taking the initiative, so they encouraged these "devastated" women, and other women who said they were afraid, to go for it. They were giving the same advice to these women that women give to men: have confidence, don't take it personally, and it's not the end of the world if someone turns you down.
I think, if you asked 100 women whether they'd prefer to date a short, well-groomed guy or a tall, smelly one, 99 would pick the short guy.
Also, I think you'll find that fewer women would consider *any* single physical characteristic (other than "basic hygiene", which is partly behavioral) an absolute deal breaker. I think most women would date an otherwise-perfect guy who was 4'11", but I don't know that most men would date an otherwise perfect woman who was 200 lbs.
I hope you are revealing a secret, not expecting that men should already know this about women. Last I checked, human men are categorically incapable of the Vulcan Mind Probe, and all the external messages that they get from society, the media, and the women themselves, contradict this thing that women supposedly feel inside, but so secretly that some of them aren't even aware of it, and never say out loud.
So, if we want to include how someone smells as a physical characteristic, then let me slightly amend my assertion to: height is the most important visual physical characteristic in a man to the majority of women.
I definitely disagree with you that most women would would date an otherwise-perfect guy who was 4'11" (unless, of course, they were shorter than 4'11".)
And I don't think men are just thought to be more horny than women. I think men are more horny than women. More kinky too.
Not trying to find the lady in bars is a good idea. Try dating sites, and be up front about the fact that you're a "shorter guy" (5'6" isn't that short in my book either) searching for a woman over x'x" tall. It's a particular niche you're trying to fill and it may not happen immediately, but at least put it out there.
Other resources, don't know how good they are, but you may find forums or at least fellowship there:
http://amazonlove.org/main.html
http://tallwomendating.net/
Here are testimonials by tall women about how they love "little guys":
http://www.shortsupport.org/News/0285.ht…
And lastly, here's a video. It might seem kind of staid, but see if it doesn't help motivate you. Lord knows it's more advice than Dan gave you:
http://www.howcast.com/videos/292653-How…
Hang in there!
We are a mismatch, and if only he had been honest with himself and with me all those years ago, i wouldn't be in this predicament i'm in now. I have no idea what the future holds for us. He's a friend, we live like roomies, raising our 2 kids, but surely, this isn't the end of my sex life??? He prefers to not talk about it; he gets upset and defensive if i try to discuss it, so i've gone behind his back (once) and had an affair, just to get fucked the way i need it.
People need to be upfront and honest about their sexuality and all their kinks when they start getting intimate with a new partner. It's the only way to have a long, successful, happy relationship.
So, YES, there is such a thing as asexuality, it is not something you make a choice to be - asexual people are born that way, just the same as gays and lesbians are born that way, just the same as heteros are born that way. Yes, it is a sexual orientation.
Society tells women they shouldn't be kinky, horny, or love sex. I am here to tell you that i am probably more sexually intense than 3/4 of the guys i've ever been with, more erotic, more horny, more sensual, and i love to fuck.
So, there goes your theory.
I don't think OPA is providing enough information about what happened (did she know he was a virgin? Was this also his first time receiving/giving head? When he said he didn't come, did he mean that he lost his erection or that he could stay hard, but couldn't come?)... and I do think he's probably. If he didn't tell his partner or lied about his being a virgin- asshole. If he did- debatable. I was recently in a similar situation- well, on the opposite side of it, anyway.
I dated and unwittingly deflowered a man in his late 20s and he didn't tell me about his being a virgin (and actively lied about it) until we unsuccessfully had sex twice. Even then, he didn't volunteer the information, but begrudgingly admitted it after I asked him a series of questions. If I had known he was a virgin, I would have taken the lead more than I did and had different expectations. This guy lost his erection two nights in a row, saying that it had never happened to him before and that he was just nervous because it was our first time together. And yeah, I did take it a little personally. I wasn't mad, but I was disappointed and felt inadequate and unattractive. He was a selfish lover and I didn't think that we had any sexual chemistry, which I wouldn't have thought so much if I knew he'd never done it before. Once I knew he was completely inexperienced, I was very accepting. I liked him and would have been (and was) cool with working on the sex stuff with him. What I wasn't ok with was his lying to me and dismissing my concerns when I tried to talk about sex stuff with him. The next few times we had sex weren't great, but there was definite improvement. Things didn't work out, but that's not why.
Of course, sometimes people just don't have the chemistry, but I think it's worth giving it a little time to try if you like the person a lot. Communication is key though- OPA has got to have that card on the table, think about the situation from his partners perspective, and possibly adjust his own expectations.
Yeah, to some women height is very important. I've had male friends tell me about how often they're rejected for not being tall enough (one guy is 6' and even he has been slighted for not being able to tower over a tall (5'9" woman!). But not all women care that much--it often really does come down to attitude, and many short men are pretty insecure about their height, which translates into an attitude of uncomfortableness with the woman, which the woman can translate as "he doesn't find me all that desirable," which, in agreement with #118, is probably the single most attractive quality about a man: the fact that he obviously desires the woman. Vicious circle, to be sure.
Hygiene and grooming matter so much more than height, quantity of hair, or six-packs alone. Every woman I've ever spoken to agrees on this.
Speaking only for myself, assuming the hygiene and grooming are there (please remember to trim and clean your fingernails, guys!), the most attractive qualities in a man are intelligence, passion and conversation skills, and a good sense of humor. I don't date a man's hair; I don't date a measuring stick; I don't date muscles (not that I don't appreciate great hair, a toned body and a tall man): I want to date a man who makes me want to see him again. All the physical attributes in the world can't really hold my interest for long if they exist in a vacuum. I once dated a guy who was much bigger than me--6'3", incredibly broad-shouldered, arms like tree trunks that made me feel like a fragile little girl being securely taken care of when he held me in them. He also had a head full of hair, a killer smile, and smelled good. But you know what? He couldn't make conversation to save his life, had limited interests, and he was surly and erratic and judgmental and controlling. One-and-a-half dates was enough for me.
It's true that one's biggest sex organ is the brain; it's also true that one's most attractive quality is the brain (or how it's used), too.
Sorry if I derailed your conversation about dating. But I do think you should consider whether men really want women to make the advances; you might find it flattering, but you might also (subconsciously) find the woman less attractive than if the same woman had flirted with you but waited for you to ask her out.
@132: The previous commenter wasn't saying that ALL men are hornier than ALL women. The fact that you personally are hornier than the average man - and there are indeed some super-horny women out there (I've dated a few) - doesn't disprove the idea that women, in general, tend to be less horny, less "raring to go", more able to take it or leave it. Just because there are some Filipinos who are taller than some Dutchmen doesn't mean most Filipinos aren't, on average, shorter.
@135: It may not be an issue of gender norms per se. Unexpected directness is often a sign of boundary issues and/or mental illness, and it's hard to unlearn that. In other words, the guy is probably asking himself "What's the catch? Is she crazy, or is she going to knife me and take my wallet, or...?" Of course, fiction and popular culture reinforce that idea too.
When I say "men are more kinky" I don't mean that every single man is kinkier than every single woman. Of course not. I mean the average level of kinkiness is higher among men than it is among women or, as Dan put it, men are more likely to be kinky than women. Are there women who could outkink any guy? Absolutely. Are there men who aren't kinky at all? Sure. But that doesn't mean that, overall, women are as kinky as men.
Since we're also talking about height in this thread, let me use it as an analogy. We can all agree that the average height of men is greater than the average height of women, right? Some women, of course, are very tall and some men are very short. But those exceptions don't disprove the general rule: men are taller than women (or men are taller, in general/on average, than women.)
Now, you can certainly disagree me and with Dan. You may feel very strongly that the average level of kinkiness is just as high among women as it is among men. But I bet you could take almost any kinky behavior or fantasy and you'd find more men doing it or fantasizing about it. And I would argue that the more perverse it is, the higher the ratio of men to women.
I feel the same thing is true for horniness, or desire. If you could read the minds of 1,000 men and 1,000 women for a year, I'd bet you anything that the men, on average would be thinking about sex a lot more and wanting it a lot more.
We agree that height is very important to some women. Where we disagree is in just what percentage of women that "some" is. You obviously feel it's much smaller than I do.
If short men tend to be insecure about their height, don't you think that probably stems, in large part, from being turned down by women a lot, likely due to their lack of stature? As Urqutha Forka said at #24, "Confidence is something that comes from success. If a man is tall and gets lots of women, he will likely exude confidence because he knows, from successful experience, he can get what he wants. If a man is short and doesn't get lots of women, how is he supposed to be confident?
Regarding what you said about being in agreement with #118, that the single most attractive quality about a man to a woman is when he obviously desires her. I'm sure that is a very attractive quality to a woman, but it's attractive (or it has meaning) only if she finds him attractive. A guy can have a burning desire for a woman and if she doesn't think he's hot or isn't interested in him for some other reasons, then that quality is irrelevant. (I desired the last woman I was with. I thought she was wonderful -- smart, funny, interesting, attractive -- and let her know that. But, for whatever reason, she didn't feel the same way in return so she broke things off.)
I agree with you that hygiene and grooming are more important than height to some extent. If a 5'8" woman was choosing between a 6' tall guy who reeked and dressed like a bum and a 5'6" guy who was squeaky clean and impeccably groomed (and all their other qualities were roughly equal) then yeah, Mr. Five Six would undoubtedly be picked. But if Senor Six Foot wasn't that smelly or slovenly compared to the other guy, then he'd probably be selected.
(As a side note, I've seen countless personal ads from women where they stress good hygiene and grooming as a must for men..and you just mentioned trimming and cleaning fingernails. Is poor hygiene and grooming, including fingernail care failure, that rampant among men?)
Speaking only for myself, the most attractive qualities in a man are intelligence, passion and conversation skills, and a good sense of humor. I don't date a man's hair; I don't date a measuring stick; I don't date muscles (not that I don't appreciate great hair, a toned body and a tall man): I want to date a man who makes me want to see him again. All the physical attributes in the world can't really hold my interest for long if they exist in a vacuum.
I don't doubt any of that. Those are the most attractive qualities to me in a woman too (I'd add thoughtfulness.) But he has to be physically/sexually attractive to you in some way, right? Men who have intelligence, passion, conversation skills and a good sense of humor meet women all the time and are told "You're really great...but...let's just be friends, okay?" (and, of course, women get told this by men all the time too if the men like them but aren't attracted to them.)
When I was younger I used to believe that women didn't care about looks nearly as much as men. And I still believe that women, on average, probably do care somewhat less than men. But what I think now is that the main difference between men and women is that men are more honest or open in admitting that looks matter to them. To me, most women seem unwilling to admit that looks are important to them.
I think most women would agree with me. Ask 100 women if they'd rather date a tall, overweight/out of shape guy, or a short fit, sexy guy and 99 (ok, at least 90) would choose the guy with the abs.
And I don't mean perfect, just fit. Some abs, nice strong legs, ass etc. :)
Sorry to be blunt, but could these men be freaked out because they don't find you attractive? This is what I was alluding to in a prior post. I think that women have a very hard time showing an interest in men and being rejected so when it happens they need to come up with a face-saving reason (e.g. "he obviously doesn't like women asking him out.") It's similar to a guy asking a woman out and when she turns him down he comes back to his buddies and says "she's a lesbian."
Or, maybe they've found you attractive but they're uncomfortable with the fact that you're married. If a woman I found attractive wanted to fuck me and told me she was married, I wouldn't jump at the chance. First, because my personal ethics wouldn't let me participate in cheating (I wouldn't want another guy fucking my wife if I was married so I'm not going to fuck another guy's wife...the old Golden Rule.) And second, if she said, "it's fine, we have an arrangement," I'd still be uneasy taking her word for it. I wouldn't want to find out she was lying by having Mr. Enraged Husband discovering she was fucking me and showing up at my door with a gun.
What I'm saying is that (1) if these guys found you attractive and (2) there was some way they could be reassured that your husband wouldn't come gunning for them, I have a very difficult time imagining why they'd be freaked out.
Sorry if I derailed your conversation about dating. But I do think you should consider whether men really want women to make the advances; you might find it flattering, but you might also (subconsciously) find the woman less attractive than if the same woman had flirted with you but waited for you to ask her out.
Merci, but no apology necessary. This has been an interesting conversation on all fronts.
A woman wrote a dating feature in the Seattle Times about five years ago. Her premise was that men don't like it when women ask them out and to "support" her premise she quoted about three women in the article and all of the women said something like: "when I ask men out, they get scared." The writer didn't talk to any men. Perhaps if she had talked to these men who were "scared" she would have found out they did not find these women attractive. Subsequent to this article I talked to all my male friends, co-workers, and some random guys in clubs. I asked them, "how would you feel if a woman came up to you and started talking you and you could tell she was interested in you?" The typical answer was along the lines of: "It depends. It depends on what she's like. If she was cute and fun to talk to, I'd be flattered. If wasn't attracted to her, I'd admire her for coming up to me but I wouldn't be flattered."
Now, are there some men who wouldn't be interested in a woman they found cute and fun to talk to who came up to them? I'm sure there are. Men who are very traditional ("Tarzan hunt, Tarzan not like be hunted!") would most likely be that way. But I think the majority of men wouldn't care, or would be very flattered, if a woman they found attractive approached them for a chat. (And women are the same way. Women aren't thrilled if a guy they find homely or uninteresting comes up and tries to start a conversation with them.)
For what it's worth, a big part of the reason I prefer women to ask me out is that I have Asperger's Syndrome, which means (among other things) that I'm really bad at reading body language. So a woman's body language quite literally gives me no clue whether she's interested in me or not, no matter how obvious she thinks she's being. I know women can (usually) read my body language, so *tell me what you're thinking*! LOL
As for why men are willing to ask women out while most women aren't willing to ask men out, women know that another guy will come to them soon enough, while we know that we're forfeiting the vast majority of our options if we don't approach women. (And I'm guessing there are some guys who actually like approaching women. But not me.)
That's certainly true, but as far as simply asking her out goes there's another consideration: if the guy doesn't make a move promptly some other guy will. So a guy has a strong incentive to make a move as soon as he thinks he might be interested. If he waits until he's sure he's interested, she's probably not going to be around for him to ask.
Men are generally happy to have women start up a conversation. But ask your friends if they want women to ask them out on a date (or propose a blow job in the bar bathroom :-) That's the part that's scary, when you're under pressure to decide quickly whether you're interested.
And please place me in the "hell no to the virgins" crew. I've deflowered three and I am very glad I am (what I thought was) too old for that nonsense now. Yuck. I don't want to have to train someone, I am not a teacher, and I suspect a guy who was that old and hadn't had sex yet would have WAY too many sex hangups for me to be compatible with him. Oh and for whoever said most women prefer a virgin to a manwhore? No. Sounds like words spoken by a woman who either never orgasms or never slept with a man who couldn't bring her there. I want a man who has had plenty of experience, a variety of different sexual partners to learn from, and brings plenty to the table. My bedroom is not a place for amateur night.
This doesn't mean everything else is out the window, people just tend to stay in their comfort bubble.
The societal list of deal-breakers seems to be growing over time. Witness the "Undateable" blog/book/show phenomenon. Disgusting.
Men who don't do the initiating are widely seen as emasculated. When a woman initiates, maybe the man who reacts badly thinks the woman sees him this way. This stupid; what they should be seen as is so attractive that women are willing to overcome their own societal messages that women are supposed to hang back and let the man take the lead.
And saying they have no chemistry when it comes to just kissing? That itself is the biggest red flag there is. I can't imagine anything close to even decent sex with someone I don't even enjoy kissing.
Real life sex isn't a scene from a porno. Don't expect her moaning and groaning from having your dick in her mouth.
(Also, incidentally, I am acquainted with a stable triad - two girls, one guy; he's fairly short and slender-framed (though fit) and one of the girls, while she may not be taller, is certainly "butch-er" than he is.)
I'm not YOUR type, BTL, but rest assured there are short-guy-lovers out there!
I have met other people in your situation and it just seems tragic for all involved. I hope you maintain your sanity until your kids are 18 and then I am sure there will be a man who will be thrilled to help you make up for lost time.
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
I'm 5'9" or 5'10" - somewhere in there - and have often felt really self-conscious about my height - partly probably because I'm in a town where the population's half asian and I kind of stand out - and every time someone says tall girls are hot, I breathe a huge sigh of relief. There must be plenty of girls out there who'll be relieved to know that you like their height. My ex who was 5'6" and I used to just joke about it; if I wore heels it was just the right height for him to get an awesome view of the cleavage. (:
Oh, and as a general rule no matter who you are, the bar is not necessarily the best place to pick up people who've got it together. Hike or jog or learn social dancing like swing or salsa or ballroom (there are never enough guys in the room in social dancing) or volunteer or join a book club or something. Some online dating sites like OKcupid can work out pretty well too.
Condoms don't protect us completely, but then we drive too, and that is probably more likely to lead to an early death than STDs. We've had all the children we want, so we're not worried about the threat to our fertility. And we're at that point (40 y/o) where we're more worried about missing out on the joys life has to offer than on maximizing our number of days on earth at any price.
>I definitely disagree with you that most women would would date an otherwise-perfect guy who was 4'11" (unless, of course, they were shorter than 4'11".)
I can't speak for "most women", only my own self, but I'm 5'3". Though I prefer tall guys, I would *cheerfully* date an otherwise likely guy who was 4'11". If I meet a smart, funny geek who's into the same things I am, I'm not letting the fact that I'm taller than him stop me from dating him.
Yeah, there has to be at least some physical attraction, but height is a useful but not necessary characteristic of that.
For us, the fact that we were introduced online through a mutual friend and developed our relationship before really noticing (although we knew about it) our height difference, was a big help. Otherwise, he would have assumed I was out of his league and I mightn't have seen him as more than a friend. But our characters match so well that I am glad things worked out this way!
Well, hypocrisy ... can't say I'm not against that.
I'm a married straight but open minded guy and not looking for a hookup, but if anyone knows of an active book club with a guy in it, I would love to join... seriously. I've just never heard of one. My wife definitely doesn't want me crashing her party.
Dancing classes however, I'm all in favor of since it generally takes two to tango and open to both sexes. Another good one is the climbing gym.
There are a lot of book clubs that are not invite only: churches, libraries, and organizations often have them. You could also check websites like Meetup. And for what it's worth, the book clubs as well as the poker games I go to generally include women as well as men, and no one thinks that it's strange.
Anyway, those are at least two organizations that are great resources for mixed-sex, cheap/affordable, open-to-public events and clubs.
Or, I know this sounds annoying, if you can, but start your own? Make it known it's an open, mixed environment, recruit female friends who are avid readers (to create a friendly environment for single lady strangers), and cross your fingers.
Keeping your ear close to the ground with local blogs, etc. is fantastic too. A bar near where I live recently held a Simpsons trivia night, open to all.
We tried counselling, & it ended with him saying he was finished spending money on that venue. In a private convo with the counsellor, i was told that my husband is what's termed "a cold fish" & that i'd be waiting an eternity for him to warm up. We have an otherwise friendly & cordial relationship, raising our children together, but living like roomies.
I am not a fat blob who doesn't care about her appearance or personality. I am of avg body size and stature, i keep fit with regular workouts, i have a college education, i enjoy keeping up with current events & am a sports fan. We enjoy common interests, we both place our children as top priority along with the financial & home management that comes with family & home life, & we vacation together.
Any time i have tried to discuss our sex life, it has ended in a very frustrating situation where i get no answers, & he gets all out of sorts because he knows i'm not getting what i need from him.
Though i've had years to think about my situation, i cannot answer your other question about "opposites attracting". My own take on opposites attracting is that means "opposite sex", not opposite anything else.
Wouldn't he be happier with an asexual woman?... well, yes, but at that time, in that place, there were none around, i suppose. I was attracted to his educated, mannerly, kind demeanour; he was attracted to my pleasant personality & my stunning good looks :) Asexual people do not lack personality; they just lack a sex drive of any sort. I believe he knew he would be without a partner of any sort if he let his sexual preference be known, & i was the best thing that happened to him to that point in his life, & so he married me, thinking that he either could rise (excuse the pun) to the challenge, or perhaps i would settle into a way of life that included little to no sex. He was wrong on both counts, & of course, didn't include me in the decision making process.
Yes, even in these days & ages, people do still hide their sexual preferences & orientation.
I do want to leave him, as i feel that 1/3 of me is missing, & that i'm missing out on fantastic sexual exploration & satisfaction, as the last 10 yrs of my life have been pretty much sexless except for my minor dalliance & of course, lots of masturbation. Thank you for your words of comfort, sympathy, & hope; i appreciate it so much.
other guys is as much his fantasy as mine). Young guys weren't interested -- either because the idea wasn't attractive or because I wasn't attractive enough. Older guys have been more interested and cool about the idea.
Erica, thanks for the clarification. So if your husband is there when you're asking these guys out (or, should we say in) that eliminates my the-freaked-out-guys-are-nervous-about-an-enraged-cheated-on-hubby thought. Plus, if your husband is there, I also think it also probably eliminates the other person's thought that these guys feel you might be crazy. So, that pretty much leaves them not attracted to you...unless part of the deal is that your husband is going to be there (is it?) Then they simply might not be attracted to the idea.
But I don't think their lack of interest has anything (or much) to do with the fact that you're taking the initiative. I mean, if a woman I found attractive and very sexy came up to me somewhere with her husband and introduced me to him and told me she wanted to fuck me and he chimed in with "and it's totally cool with me...in fact, I'll be getting off at home just thinking about the two of you together," why on Mother Earth would I be freaked out? (And if her husband watching was part of the deal, I still might be interested.)
Also Roma, you are comparing apples to oranges. The article you refer to @142 was talking about women asking men out. Your counter example was about women initiating conversation with men. Men are generally happy to have women start up a conversation. But ask your friends if they want women to ask them out on a date (or propose a blow job in the bar bathroom :-) That's the part that's scary, when you're under pressure to decide quickly whether you're interested.
I found that article and my memory wasn't correct on one point: she only quoted one woman, not three, on asking men out. But that woman did say that men get scared...
But anybody can ask for a date. What happens when the woman does the asking? "I ask men out routinely," said Kathy Lindenmayer, a 31-year-old singleton who moved to Seattle from South Carolina eight years ago. And do they respond positively? "No," said Lindenmayer. "They get frightened."
...and the writer didn't bother to ask any men how they feel. I can almost guarantee you the men this woman asked were simply not attracted to her and it's ego-saving for her to think that they're "frightened" instead of accepting that she got turned down because they're not into her.
Anyway, I beg to differ that a woman asking a man out and initiating a conversation is like apples and oranges. More like peaches and nectarines. If a woman takes the initiative to chat a guy up she's likely interested in him to some degree. It's just a less direct approach than asking him out on a date. Subsequent to that article, and the woman's claim, I did ask all those guys how they'd feel if a woman asked them out. And they responded as I noted above.
Diagoras, 99 percent of the time it's because he's not interested? Have you never heard of shyness?
Men who are interested always make a move? No. Non. Nein. Nyet. As just one example, The Stranger used to have these "I Saw You" ads in the print edition. They were ads -- lots of 'em -- from women and men who saw someone they were interested in but they didn't make a move.
Look, if a woman views shyness in a man as something akin to leprosy (and I think many women do) then she's not going to be interested in a guy who won't make a move on her. He won't be "manly" enough for her. But if she doesn't see shyness that way, and she's willing to put herself out there -- like guys do all the time -- then she might meet a great guy by breaking out of the box.
Thanks Gloria. I sometimes think it's human nature to expect others to behave in ways that we don't, or won't, do ourselves.
On a related note, I know that men often get bashed as "shallow" for caring about the way women look but I think few men are actually "shallow" (according to my definition anyway.) I see being shallow as only or primarily caring about what's on the outside; one is not willing to look deeper into a person. But to care about how a person looks as well as what they think and how they feel and what they're interested in...I don't see that as shallow at all.
Regarding the little dude that likes 'tall, dominant women'. Um, you're sort of wrong, and you gave the dude kind of half assed advice. I am 5'8" and I dated a model who was 5'10" for two and a half years. Actually, I never even really noticed the difference until she put on the six inch heels. That was a wake up call. It made me feel ridiculous to enter a room with this tall beauty on my arm. I felt like a child. But I will tell you what, everything else about our relationship was awesome: great chemistry, great sex, and a really close bond. I would have been a complete jackass if I let my lack of height or her height get in the way.
Truth be told, most women don't care that much about height. It's like huge boobs on a girl. Guys enjoy it when a girl has a gorgeous C-cup, but I don;t know any guys that would shy away from an amazing girl with an A-cup. Same goes for height. Would a woman prefer to be a little shorter than her man, probably, but most modern, intelligent women are into other, less primordial qualities. Style, intelligence, personality, and physical fitness are way more important to the woman I know. Don't get me wrong there are those women out there who want 6 feet tall, and 6 figure salaries, but those "Last Days of Disco" yuppie types aren't worth dating anyway.
Regarding the little dude that likes 'tall, dominant women'. Um, you're sort of wrong, and you gave the dude kind of half assed advice. I am 5'8" and I dated a model who was 5'10" for two and a half years. Actually, I never even really noticed the difference until she put on the six inch heels. That was a wake up call. It made me feel ridiculous to enter a room with this tall beauty on my arm. I felt like a child. But I will tell you what, everything else about our relationship was awesome: great chemistry, great sex, and a really close bond. I would have been a complete jackass if I let my lack of height or her height get in the way.
Truth be told, most women don't care that much about height. It's like huge boobs on a girl. Guys enjoy it when a girl has a gorgeous C-cup, but I don;t know any guys that would shy away from an amazing girl with an A-cup. Same goes for height. Would a woman prefer to be a little shorter than her man, probably, but most modern, intelligent women are into other, less primordial qualities. Style, intelligence, personality, and physical fitness are way more important to the woman I know. Don't get me wrong there are those women out there who want 6 feet tall, and 6 figure salaries, but those "Last Days of Disco" yuppie types aren't worth dating anyway.
I'm a taller lady (5 10') and feminine in a nontraditional way. I'm a girl (wear skirts, highlight my hair), but I'm emotionally strong and physically active (but not body building type). I've ALWAYS been attracted to shorter guys! I love how compact short guys are. A small body frame can be delicious looking! Latin American guys often really do it for me.
Look up how sexy dudes from countries with a shorter general height are, and dress right for your frame. Find out about how short some hot actors are, if you see some who have a style you like, figure out why they don't look like little kids, get your confidence up.
Confidence is WAY sexier than height, for almost all women. I know there aren't a lot of ladies who prefer the compact body guys, but I'm one, and I know there are others out there, so keep looking!
Ah, and the fact that somebody is not great at sex or kissing WITH YOU does not necessarily mean she has lousy technique. So no, don't be an asshole.
I am a 5'9" bi female who has tended to prefer shorter partners, for many of the same reasons you describe. I frequently get mistaken for being 1-2 inches taller than I am.
What can you do to make yourself more attractive to taller women? Be confident. Love yourself, love who you are, and make it abundantly clear that you love and admire women whether or not you have any hope or desire to sleep with them. Don't be or act threatened by a woman taller than you. Flirt with them, lightheartedly. Don't hate high heels. Compliment women without ulterior motives....or at least compliment women without any investment in whether it goes anywhere (and be able to exit gracefully).
Sometimes (not for me personally but I hear it a lot), it isn't so much that taller women worry about height, but they worry about feeling larger in general than the person they are with. Sometimes they worry about just feeling less feminine (might be less of an issue if you are looking at butch-identified women). Don't hate on a woman you like wearing heels and a dress once in a while. For these women, there may be nothing you can do, but you might consider working out to the point you can handle a much larger woman on top. You could also consider putting an ad out for a butch bi top woman, but be aware that in my experience most 80-100% straight women with short hair etc. that I have met still want to feel feminine.
Also? Don't fetishize us. Unless we are into that. We can smell that a mile away. If fetishizing that is what you want to do, you may want to reconsider identifying so strongly as vanilla.
BTL, just so you know I've felt for a long time that there were no men out there who wanted to be protected and/or be in a truly egalitarian relationship with a women. Thank you so much for proving me wrong!
By the way, there are some women (like myself) who don't give a shit about height.