"Speaking of gaping orifices"... TOO FUNNY!!

Fisting is one of my all-time favorite activities, but if a guy felt it was a synonym for lifetime commitment, I'd never have experienced it.
The vagina is a tube of muscle. It can stretch and contract.
A word of advise, FIST: when you're in to your wrist or forearm, lean down and give her clit a lick. She'll wonder how she ever lived without fisting before.

Oh please on the fisting thing. I've had two children, been the happy recipient of "fisting" (ugly term for a great act, btw) and have had no complaints regarding my va-jay-jay or the shape it is in. Fist away!!!

Dr? NO Midwest? GO Santorum? BLO

MM,
You say that you're better friends than lovers, and you certainly sound more like friends (you have fun, make each other laugh) than lovers (he hardly touches you, doesn't want to marry you).
Why don't you simply break up and re-catagorize the relationship? Once you're no longer a couple, his reaction to his past relationship with a former teacher no longer has the same effect on you. His failure to be bothered by it has no impact on you. Ditto his not wanting to have kids (either with you or at all), his drinking, whatever.
Let all that go: his past, your expectations about how he should respond to or be affected by his past, his clear non-interest in you sexually.
Then go out and find a relationship with someone who wants to be with you as a girlfriend.

Fisting is awesome and it's really not a huge deal. I have no idea where FIST got the idea that it's at all extreme or much different than fingering or using a toy. You can even do it (slowly and gradually) without the girl realizing that you managed to get four fingers and a thumb in there.

Dan, thanks so much for not blaming someone's problems on an early consensual student-teacher relationship! That's really great to hear.

Hear hear on the challenge, Dan!

Good column, and good to know that "the stretched out black hole of doom" is a myth.

I wonder if there's a career niche out there for gay people willing to pretend to be friends with politicians? Hopefully there's no price high enough for someone like Santorum to find somebody.

Then again, friendships can be weird, and compartmentalization is really easy for people. I have family members who have told me that they consider my polyamorous relationship just as immoral as pedophilia, and we still send cards and visit and have friendly chats. But that's family. I don't know if I could suck it up that much for a friendship.

@nocutename
Have you ever fisted a guy?

Nailed it on the gay porn or any porn (that shows your face) for would be professionals.

Our fister fetish guy hardly has what could be called a "fetish" if he's doing his g-friend for years and she doesn't even know about it. It seems more like my crucifixion "fetish" which is more like an infatuation with something novel and transgressive than a real fetish.

Still, whoever thought the black hole of doom was inevitable has never seen a vaginal delivery. It may take some Kegels but long term problems from fisting? Please.

MM is NOT pathetic- not yet. If he hardly touches you now before the wedding you are going to be on AshleighMadison.com within 6 months after the wedding. Dan didn't pick up on it, perhaps his Gadar is failing? The guy had a consensual gay relationship as a younger man. Now he doesn't want to have sex with his girlfriend. Care to bet the fellow is not "into" cunnilingus, or vaginas in general? The writer's solution is DTMFA and find a straight boyfriend. No your not pathetic, but you will be when you find out your boyfriend is pulling a Larry Craig wiping Santorum off the public restroom floor.

I wouldn't let someone fist me if he thought it'd ruin me for life. If he's that dumb, he can pack his bags.

MM My guess is that his tendency to drink heavily is dependent on factors other than his taboo relationship. People respond to transitional periods differently: a person who has found alcohol to be comforting in one way or another may drink more in an attempt to find solace. It's not necessarily because he was abused but because he was coming to terms with himself on different levels. Also, when you're in high school, who you do is up to you.

"You know, for a few minutes it looked like Anthony Weiner was going to beat this thing. But the prudes and hypocrites—in Congress and the media—carried the day."

I am big Dan fan, think he generally has good, spot-on advice for many people, but have a tiny bit of a problem with the "let's just ignore" Weiner's weiner and get on with it. It most circumstances his act would go unnoticed and uncommented upon, but Weiner is a public official, he lives in a fish bowl and knows he needs to at least circumspect in his actions. That he was not shows very poor judgement.

What has not been explained in the press or anywhere else for that matter are the circumstances of his "sexting."

- Was his "sexting" with the young woman/women in question consensual? If not, he may be guilty of sexual harassment.

- Did he at any time use government resources - his official GI-issued BB, Internet or other account to send picture of his junk? If he did, he should resign. Any Federal employee who did the same thing using taxpayer-funded resources would be fired.

Weiner held a position of public trust. He may not have betrayed that trust (maybe his wife?), but he certainly showed very poor judgement. I am a USG employee with a security clearance and know that were I to do something similar I could jeopardize my clearance and my job. If I used my Gov't issue BB or my Internet or e-mail to engage in such activity, view porn, get off on my lunch hour or whatever I would be shown the door. No problem with Weinter finally having the grace and decency to go away! Sorry Dan!

Been reading Dan for many years and generally find his advice spot-on for most people. Have to disagree with him on Weiner and his weinter. Said Congressman, as a public official, lives in a fish bowl and should at least have been circumspect in his actions. That he was not, shows a lack of judgement that would lead me to question my trust in him.

Further, what were the circumstances - never clearly explained - of his Internet dalliance? Was the "sexting" consensual? Did he use official USG resources, i.e. his Gov't issued BB, an official Twitter account, Gov't computers, etc. to send picture of his junk? In the former case, his actions might constitute harassment and in the latter, even if consensual, he should resign b/c any other USG employee would be fired for abuse of tax-payer funded resources.

I am a USG employee with a security clearance. I hold a position of public trust. If I did the same thing, on my own time or not and it became public I know the counter-intelligence folks might be taking another look at me. If I did what Weinter did with my GI BB or my e-mail or my computer, I would be shown the door. So, I am glad that Rep. Weiner had the decency in the end to resign. Sorry Dan!

So now fisting is added to the list of Required Standard Features?

As for MM, while the beau in question hardly sounds like a prize, IF there's an MF in this partnership (and I don't insist that there is), then I'll go with the partner who is telling the other partner how he has to define his past history and what has to be a problem for him. Out of all her possible complaints, she leads with THAT? Not his drinking or his panic attacks, disinterest in marriage, children or touching her, but his not regarding a past relationship as molestation.

Given the time line, I'm guessing she's fairly comfortable with what she has, even if it's not entirely satisfactory. One might even think that she wants to be told she's pathetic, that somehow that will make staying more viable for her. All in all, an interesting letter.

Sounds like MM is trying to find some outside reason why the relationship isn't working out. It couldn't be because you're not compatible, it must be because he was 'molested' in high school! Sometimes people don't work well together, and it's not always because their childhood sucked.

@9 (Mr. J):
I've never fisted a guy; no one's ever asked me to or expressed interest. While I would be willing to if a partner wanted it, I'm afraid that initially at least, my response would probably be of the ggg variety we discussed last week, rather than an example of selfish sex. But then again, I derive an extraordinary amount of sexual satisfaction in thinking of myself as someone capable of providing sexual satisfaction (ooh: symbiosis and feedback loop again!), so if my partner really got off on my fisting him, I could probably get more into it myself.

My own interest in it is two-fold. I was going to go into it, but it's probably too personal for this format; suffice it to say that neither of the reasons I love being fisted translate automatically to wanting to fist a man.

MM's boyfriend is not bisexual. He is gay. Bisexual men fuck their girlfriends silly enough that they don't get all emo drama queen and write to Dan about his past weirdo relationship with his HS teacher that he doesn't define to her liking. And that is why their relationship is not working.

Why is this so complicated for people? If you're not getting fucked well and/or your partner is an asshole, DTMF. Life is too short.

@15 (vennominom): I don't mean to suggest that fisted be added to the list of "standard features," by any means. My only objection to FIST's letter was the ignorance it displayed regarding female anatomy. The whole "drastic and permanent physical changes that could ruin her for anyone else" rhetoric was not only histrionic, but it tapped into old misogynistic ideas of a woman's being "ruined" by having sex.

It strikes me, however, that perhaps the letter-writer's disproportionally dramatic conception of the effects of fisting may actually constitute his kink. His interest in the act may stem from the feeling that he would be so imposing his "mark" on his woman that she would be permanently and discernibly altered. That indeed is the ultimate power kink.

aaarrgh: Meant to write 'I don't mean to suggest that FISTING be added to the list of "standard features," by any means' in the first sentence of posting #22.

Well, I, for one, have learnt a LOT tonight.

@11. I was kinda thinking that his fetish made him willfully ignorant. Was that part of the fetish, that he would ruin her somehow? Somewhat creepy in his stupidity, eh?

Do you have to be in Seattle to do HUMP?

#16, I don't think Dan is excusing what happened with the teacher as okay. Instead, he's pointing out that there's no reason for the letter writer to attribute her relationship troubles in general to this incident, and she shouldn't be insisting that her boyfriend feel a certain way about what happened. That doesn't mean that teacher/highschool student relationships are acceptable.

After ten years with someone who doesn't share your life goals of marriage and kids, and who barely touches you, it's high past time to move on. It doesn't matter why the boyfriend is the way he is; regardless, the girlfriend needs to get a grip.

And I totally agree on the porn thing. Employers can go to surprising lengths to investigate hires. I wouldn't risk that.

I love you, Dan, but this was largely a shitty column. Normally you bitchslap them and then give some good advice. Midwest only got (I think a mis-directed) bitchslap, and Fetishist received both insufficient bitchslapping and advice.

I'm agreeing that FIST's misconception that he would ruin his partner's vagina is very possibly part of the fantasy for him. I also notice that this misconception is a big part of his excuse for not being able to tell his LTR, so there may be more reason he's preserved that false image.
Maybe he didn't do the research he should have before going around making claims about permanently broken vaginas - but at least he's doing it now. Everyone has to start somewhere and asking Dan counts.

@19 nocutename
"I was going to go into it..."
maxbosco1 is at h#tmail

Um... I'm sorry, but just as much as not all women like cock shots (and some do!), not all women are set up for fisting. Just because some people are able to do it no problem doesn't mean everyone can/should.

Sorry, all this 'fisting is no big deal' bit irks me. I've turned down more than one guy because their penis was too big. No way am I letting somenoe put their whole goddamn fist in there. Pass.

But if you like it, that's rad.

Mydrirasis (@30):
When I said that I wasn't suggesting that fisting be a standard part of everyone's repertoire, that's what I meant. Even a woman who would "be able to do it" might not enjoy it or might not WANT to do it. I was just trying to correct the letter-writer's (I think) willful ignorance of the damage it does.

"Hey, hon? Mind if I jam my arm in there?"

Arm?! This guy is not just ignorant about width but about depth!

As requested: "Hi Mr. J"

@33 KCFrance
That was humorous exaggeration. Do you really think Dan is that ignorant? Also, how is he ignorant about width?

Mike/31, even if the guy was "preyed upon", as she put it, the crucial thing is that nobody gets to tell him how he should feel about it. If he wanted to have a sexual relationship with the teacher--even if the teacher did something horribly wrong--then there's no point trying to force him to feel like a victim who was violated. That's only going to make things more confusing than they already are.

Girlfriend is heavily invested in being his wound-healer, and apparently thinks the reason their 10-year relationship isn't going where she wants it to go is because boyfriend hasn't yet sufficiently grasped his own victimization. What does she want him to do exactly, to prove that he's not "okay" with it? Whatever it is, he could do that, and he could get over the panic attacks, but still not be the future husband and father she wants him to be. She needs to walk away from this now, and stop trying to be his therapist.

Dan,

If there was ever a case for sitting down with a neutral 3rd party (therapist/friend/clergy) to talk out things, it's MM. If she just swallows this, it's going to lead to a break up.

I've seen this with friends, seen this with clients.

Also, having worked with a lot of kids who were taken advantage upon in high school or by distant family members or authority figures in their communities, I can say this: while we can't automatically attribute the bad behavior to that incident, we can't discount it either. It's not 100% that this is the source of the drinking and other behavior...but it's more likely than not AND the potential consequences of letting it go w/o dealing with it are life time.

Potential causes of drinking/panic attacks/emotional battle walls/other neg behavior, in decreasing order of likelihood:

1. Incident in high school (whether it was abuse or just a consensual but hidden relationship)
2. He's in the closet and struggling (be it that he's bi or really just gay and in denial)
3. Something else happened that drove him to drink. If he kept the HS "incident" secret so long, what else is there?
4. He's genetically alcoholic/dependent/mental issues.
5. He's just an ass/was just an ass.

Also, this bothers me A LOT: "My boyfriend and I have been together for 10 years. A few years ago, he informed me that he was molested in high school by a teacher and was in a sexual relationship with this man until he met me."

They were together for 10 years and he didn't tell her about "the HS thing" or the bi or gay until a few years ago? So he was in a relationship for at least 6 years where he was denying a major part of himself to her (i.e., an attraction to men and a life-changing relationship in HS). Jesus Christ on a Cracker. I'm surprised you went to the problem was the relationship isn't meeting her expectations.

No, Dan, the problem is, he was actively concealing a part of himself for a long time. It's not just that she''s not happy. It's that he kept a big part of himself from her. If I found out now, after 12 years, that this had happened to my husband and he hadn't told me, I'd seriously question whether our emotional and intellectual intimacy was what I always thought it to be or whether it was all just artifice.

Now, I'm not a fan of immediately disclosing and always disclosing....people have a right to keep things to themselves....but he did disclose. Way too late.

People, if you are carrying around this type of info (i.e., anything your partner might want to really know and/or consider a game changer), either let them know once you hit the comfy stage of a relationship (no more than 2-3 years in) OR keep it to yourself forever.

The "emotionally closed" thing bothers me as well. Men who are that closed off do not get better just because they meet the "right woman". What they do is they learn how to fake it. But the underlying issue is still there.

Quite frankly, this man has some type of damage. I don't know what it is. It's not going away by ignoring it. It's not going away by accepting the imperfection.

I think she needs to either get into counseling with him (and he needs individual counseling) or she should cut her losses and move on.

Just because you love someone does not mean you can make a go of it with him simply by lowering your expectations. If she does that, she will regret it.

Absent therapy for both and for him, I think this is a slow-motion train wreck. She should get off while she can...and while she's young enough to have a shot at what she wants.

MM, listen to what you are saying to him, "You need to feel the way I tell you to feel about an experience you had before I even knew you." Give up, it's not going to happen.

Stop worrying about him and go find someone who wants the same things you do!

The D party wanted Weiner gone since the first moment he uttered the words "single payer". The cock shot was just the smoking gun, as it were. Recent history shows that politicians who help enhance the economic inequality of the rich, powerful and well-connected generally find their youthful indiscretions kept quieter.

Well of course Santorum is lying; this happens all the time. The latest is brain-dead David Tyree, who says the legalization of gay marriage will "lead to anarchy" while maintaining he has gay friends, respects them, and believes they should have the same rights as straights.

Uh-huh.

Of course Rick Santorum knows gay people. Any one as homophobic as Santorum is clearly a closet case and we all ought to be saying so. There is no way that he will not be outed eventually, and any of his gay 'friends' that are reading this should consider it their ethical duty to do so as soon as possible.

Ms Cute - Well, I doubt I'll ever unretire, but it's useful to keep track of what would likely be expected if I did. Mr Savage seemed a bit blase about it. Personally, I wouldn't define anything as a standard feature (not even cupholders) and have everything negotiated. But then I'd never become intimate with anyone practised in sales, so that I shouldn't have to worry about being negotiated into dreading sex instead of craving it.

Hey! I wear a watch! (Granted, I am not into fisting.)

Am I the only one who wants santorum to become the republican nominee for president just so I can mock him to my hearts content.

Regarding WTFLOL, I concur that it'd be best not to appear in porn or in videos on Xtube in which he's identifiable.

A Google search is a standard part of any employer's background check these days, and at some point, a video that shows WTFLOL ramming another guy will probably come back to haunt him.

And I would say that it theoretically could ruin a career in medicine, especially if he's planning on any area of medicine that involves dealing with children or examining people's nether regions.

@49 is right: this needs to become the Defence of the Watch column.

@36: He's ignorant about width because he thinks the width is enough to permanently injure or stretch a girl out.

@30: Anyone can be fisted... I understand you're nervous about it, or not interested, which is fine, but with enough time and relaxation it can be done. And it's not actually putting a fist in. Fisting really needs to be renamed so it sounds less extreme; on the other hand, as suggested, maybe that is the kink for some people (weird).

@37: "Mike Leung" is a well-known Savage Love troll... don't even try.

@54 BlackRose
The LW thinks that, not Dan.

Yes to 45 & 53. Dan could have told them to get counseling, and then she'd still be on this merry-go-round of thinking she can fix a guy who doesn't even seem right for her, long-term. He's not the one writing for advice here, she is, so Dan's advice wisely takes that into account.

I too am thrilled to see someone responding to a story about molestation without insisting on how someone needs to feel about it or respond to it. People who survive such experiences are all over the map in terms of reactions and feelings.

I'd add that some people are ready to talk about it the next day, and others need several years, EVEN when they are in a trusting, committed relationship. On this point I disagree with 38. If someone finally owns up to a major secret they couldn't admit before, it doesn't undermine the intimacy and trust you had--indeed, it shows that your relationship is strong enough to handle these old wounds. If you've kept a major secret like that for years, it doesn't necessarily pop out shortly after you find someone you can trust. There's no statute of limitations on when you can confide something in your dear ones.

Ah, I thought the quote @33 was Dan. Never mind.

@57 Suzy
Thank you. Some of us needed more than 10 years to get there, just for ourselves. Life doesn't keep to a schedule.

I guess anyone CAN be fisted. But whether or not it can be done without trauma and/or uncontrollable screaming and crying is another matter.

We're all built a little differently.

@32 it was actually blackrose's comment of it being not a big deal that I was a little put off by. You saying it doesn't need to be on everyone's repetoire was spot on, for me.

"I suggest we change Fisting to Upper Cunting"
Bo Burnham

"I suggest we change 'Fisting' to 'Upper Cunting'" -- Bo Burnham

All of us, every day, have to do risk/benefit analyses just to walk around. Look at WTFLOL. He'd like to do the porn film. He'd like to be a doctor. (What's the burgeoning field?) He has to weigh how much fun the film would be against how it might hurt his career. He has to take into account his chances of being recognized. There are many variables: his exact specialty, what he'd be doing in the film, how hot he finds the idea, people's attitudes towards his being gay, etc.

Now look at Weiner. He doesn't seem to have done that analysis well. He wanted to send the pix, didn't seem to think he'd get caught, didn't seem to know what would happen when he did. Or maybe he did know and thought the risk was worth it. I agree that Weiner shouldn't have had to step down over something I think is trivial, but I do wonder at someone like him making complex decisions about law, justice, and cause and effect. He just doesn't strike me as very bright.

"The openly gay Lemon, oddly enough, did not demand names and contact information for these gay friends."

What, you expect a journalist to ask followup questions and challenge a politician's claims? They don't do that anymore.

I don't know that Weiner's stupidity about cock shots has anything to do with his ability to make complex decisions about law and justice. After all, Bill Clinton is a Rhodes scholar, but he still managed to be stupid about sex. I think a smart person will find it much easier to apply their intelligence to political decisions than to apply it to sexual ones- usually hormones don't get mixed up in actual politics.

@65 The burgeoning field is probably related to either elder care or neurological disorders. Just a wild guess.

Your obsession with Santorum is making you look rather pathetic. You are isolating yourself and your dwindling legion of fans with your hate. Don't be such a fuck wad.

the cletus on the simpsons is smarter...

@67 though Clinton is a smart guy and I'd probably vote for him if I was American and he were running... you can't say that a persons ability to be faithful to his pregnant wife doesn't speak a little bit to his integrity which IS a relevant attribute in politics.

People here have speculated as to him having an open relationship and etc etc etc. If so, more power to him.

And P.S. sex is everywhere, it doesn't magically effect only your personal life.

@61, fisting is actually a recommended technique in Lamaze classes for preparing a woman for vaginal delivery. They call it "perineal massage." I don't mean to claim that fisting is trivial, but women are certainly built to handle more than a hand in there.

@ ABW (#38) i enjoyed your comments and agree with everything you've said.

@ fisting - i've never had an entire fist inserted into my vagina, however, i can attest to the fact that having 2 fingers inserted and 'waved' from side to side is an incredibly pleasurable scenario.

I think the 'gaping hole' theory came from porn that, if you look for it, does show some women with huge gaping holes for vaginas, very horrible to look at, being fisted by multiple men at the same time. In that porn flick i saw, the woman's vagina stayed a big gaping hole even after the men removed their fists, and it was disgusting. This is enough to turn a fist-virgin off it forever.

FIST: I enjoy fisting on a fairly regular basis (and my boyfriend has pretty sizeable mitts) and I can still crack walnuts with that shit. A vagina is designed to crank a whole freaking human being out of it. That's not guaranteeing she'll be down, it's a pretty intense sensation and not everybody likes it, but you're not going to be able to park a HumVee in there afterwards.

My issue with Weiner is that he is a complete idiot. Whether or not it should be a big deal to Tweet pictures of yourself in your underwear to people, it is. He's got to know that. So his big move is using his public Twitter to do so? Really?
Also, unless I'm mistaken, he wasn't in any kind of relationship with these women. They were just following him. They didn't want his semi-nudes, he just sent them, which is creepy, if nothing else.
Finally, he was obviously caught. There was no question that he'd been found out. There's a point where you can say that it wasn't you, but when he was confronted, he was obviously past that point. The only logical thing to do at that point is to confess, because there is no way that you can get out of it through denial. Being stupid and arrogant enough to think that he could deny it and no one would find out the truth is just the clincher for me.
On an unrelated note, while I'm pretty sure that any woman in the world CAN be fisted, isn't it possible that not every woman in the world ENJOYS being fisted?

I'm with Mydriasis: no fisting for me, thanks! My boyfriend's penis is even uncomfortably large for me (yes, even when we go slowly and use lube). Further, I don't think I'd be able to accommodate a fist even if I wanted to.

Yes, yes, childbirth blah blah blah. But the fact that C-sections exist would indicate that not all women can pass a baby through their vagina. Most vaginae can surely expand a great deal, yes; but I opinine that some cannot.

...And then there's my boyfriend, whose hips are too small to accommodate my (large-ish) hand. I had four fingers and the tip of my thumb in his ass but couldn't push in any further without the knuckles at the base of my fingers catching on his pelvic bones. It's too bad because we both really loved the sensation of having so much of my hand inside him.

I am loving what is happening to www.spreadingsantorum.com Way to go guys

MM, do this poor guy a favour and dump him already.

If someone was telling me that a previous relationship I was okay with and maybe even enjoyed was horrible and abusive and that I needed to feel angry and guilty and resentful about it, and blaming everything that I did that they disliked on the fact of the relationship, I'd have panic attacks too, and I sure wouldn't feel like fucking them, marrying, or having kids with them.

There are a lot of people who had sex with older adults in their teens who don't feel bad about it. I know, I'm one of them. Teachers shouldn't sleep with their students because when things go wrong, and they usually do, the results are often traumatic--but it's a risk, not a certainty, and some of the risk does derive from the fact that such relationships have to be conducted in secret, and any attempt on the part of the younger person to get help working things out exposes the older person to serious legal and social and financial consequences, so younger people who love their partners often don't ask for any help when they need it.

Anyhow, there may be other reasons why he drinks and you haven't even said how much he drinks so I only know it's a problem for you, not for him.

You are co-dependent. You want to "heal his wounds" even when he doesn't think he's wounded. You want to be in a position of power in this relationship and in a dual relationship (healer/lover) with this person. If you did get what you wanted, it would be just as bad for him as what might have happened with his teacher, because he'd be emotionally dependent on you as a healer and in a sexual relationship with you at the same time. I don't know why you want to be in the role of martyr or healer in a relationship, but you need to be exploring that, not his problems, or you're going to keep hooking up with people who have problems you want to fix, which will be way more boring and annoying and draining than admitting that your real problem is your own issues. Or you'll have kids and push them into trouble so you can rescue them.

I'm not assuming you're male or female (tbh I was pretty sure you were a guy, men can get married and have kids together in many civilised parts of the world) but you remind me of the Nice Guy (tm) who "befriends" a girl he doesn't think he can have who has problems and then offers her "emotional support" only to call her a dumb bitch who likes to be abused when this doesn't make her stop dating men who may be assholes, but at least are honest about what they want, and fall madly in love with them.

It's all about being the superior partner. Compared to that, dating a horny teenager because he's hot and letting him go when he's ready to move on is at least innocent in intention.

Flame away.

MM, do this poor guy a favour and dump him already.

If someone was telling me that a previous relationship I was okay with and maybe even enjoyed was horrible and abusive and that I needed to feel angry and guilty and resentful about it, and blaming everything that I did that they disliked on the fact of the relationship, I'd have panic attacks too, and I sure wouldn't feel like fucking them, marrying, or having kids with them.

There are a lot of people who had sex with older adults in their teens who don't feel bad about it. I know, I'm one of them. Teachers shouldn't sleep with their students because when things go wrong, and they usually do, the results are often traumatic--but it's a risk, not a certainty, and some of the risk does derive from the fact that such relationships have to be conducted in secret, and any attempt on the part of the younger person to get help working things out exposes the older person to serious legal and social and financial consequences, so younger people who love their partners often don't ask for any help when they need it.

Anyhow, there may be other reasons why he drinks and you haven't even said how much he drinks so I only know it's a problem for you, not for him.

You are co-dependent. You want to "heal his wounds" even when he doesn't think he's wounded. You want to be in a position of power in this relationship and in a dual relationship (healer/lover) with this person. If you did get what you wanted, it would be just as bad for him as what might have happened with his teacher, because he'd be emotionally dependent on you as a healer and in a sexual relationship with you at the same time. I don't know why you want to be in the role of martyr or healer in a relationship, but you need to be exploring that, not his problems, or you're going to keep hooking up with people who have problems you want to fix, which will be way more boring and annoying and draining than admitting that your real problem is your own issues. Or you'll have kids and push them into trouble so you can rescue them.

I'm not assuming you're male or female (tbh I was pretty sure you were a guy, men can get married and have kids together in many civilised parts of the world) but you remind me of the Nice Guy (tm) who "befriends" a girl he doesn't think he can have who has problems and then offers her "emotional support" only to call her a dumb bitch who likes to be abused when this doesn't make her stop dating men who may be assholes, but at least are honest about what they want, and fall madly in love with them.

It's all about being the superior partner. Compared to that, dating a horny teenager because he's hot and letting him go when he's ready to move on is at least innocent in intention.

Flame away.

gah, double posted, sorry!

@71 and 73

the idea that women are "designed" to fit babies through their vaginas is a myth based on a poor understanding of evolution. Childbirth is a classic example of two competing (opposing) selective pressures: the pressure to be bipedal (smaller hips/birth canal) and the pressure to pass through large headed children (larger hips/birth canal) the balance that nature struck was to have human babies be born as premature as possible (and have as much head growth postnatal as possible) and to have women die in childbirth 25% of the time. Evolution was perfectly happy with this balance. 25% of women were not.

The fact that modern medicine allows most women to have children without you know... dying, allows women in the first world to believe the myth that "A vagina is designed to crank a whole freaking human being out of it.". A vagina wasn't "designed" at all. Ask your doc. :p

Aaaand Hunter.

Like I said, I'm a bit ambivilant towards your viewpoint. I'm not talking about marital fidelity specifically (like I said, if they're open I'm down with that) but it is one of MANY MANY things that speak to a person's character. For example, if he shoplifted, I wouldn't be down with that either - even if it is a petty, trivial thing, unrelated to his ability to make complex political decisions. I think any time someone makes a moral transgression it suggests something about... their tendency to make moral transgressions.

Show me data that proves sexual ethics are magically discrete from other ethics and I'll agree with you.... but I'm pretty sure our understanding of humans suggests that it's not.

Let me make a specific example. If politician X ranks sex above his own principals and I work for a specific lobby... why wouldn't I just put on something slutty and persuade him to cast his vote in the way that I want?

Personally I'd rather vote for someone who acts on their principals and doesn't sell them out for sex (or money! which is also a big concern). And if someone will sell out the person they love for sex, why would they not sell out their constituents?

Maybe FIST should stop and think... a woman can squat an infant, which is larger than the average fist, out - do you see mothers as "ruined"? How about Mormon mothers? I mean, hell, *they* can squeeze out ten or fifteen of the little buggers in as many years, and clearly they are still getting some.

@82: Thanks for that info... that 25% figure really is amazing. Why is there selection pressure to be bipedal? What's the advantage of smaller hips?

I agree with you about the ethical issues: forget about sex, we're talking about the willingness to keep a promise, which is obviously relevant to whether or not we'd want someone to represent us.

@83: Childbirth really is a different situation: as well as the 25% death rate in the absence of modern medicine, the body has months to prepare itself and there are all sorts of hormonal and physical changes that occur. I don't think you can compare childbirth to a sex act as childbirth is an unusual biological situation that needs the right conditions to occur.

being bipedal is rad. It frees up your hands to do things like use tools.

But I'm not an evolution expert so I'm not actually sure about the details of that evolutionary shift. In terms of smaller hips... again, not an expert at all, but I'd imagine it just has to do with the best way for the legs to articulate in order to better support all of your weight? Kind of just taking a guess there. Maybe when I'm further along in my education I can give a better answer. :)

And thanks! I'm not one for petty moralizing. I mean, if he were single and wanted to whore around I would be totally okay with it, but I think you're spot on. It's a promise.

Hey, I have a question for Dan.
I think the santorum name change was an amazing thing, and the spreadingsantorum.com website reminded me that RS is still spreading his own santorum far and wide. But I wonder why you keep posting about him on slog and mentioning him in the column. Why him specifically and why keep bringing it up?

I totally want a t-shirt now that says, BEING BIPEDAL IS RAD.

Gaping orifices is right!!

First, an exposed Weiner, then a frothy, flip-flopping Santorum with a squirt of Lemon!

Talk about your dangerous Molotov cocktails!

Rick Santorum's former press secretary is gay. He adored Rick (Santorum) like a father and talking to him about it was sickening.

@71 That's what I thought of too. But i think a lot of people aren't familiar with how to do effective perineal massage to keep from tearing, or so many women wouldn't be needing stitches after childbirth. It's a shame that information isn't more out there, but it's difficult sometimes to explain to like say - your pregnant daughter, or even a close friend. They either get it or they think it's gross.

@82 But all congresspeople have sold out their constituents for money to some extent, via campaign contributions, if you're going to look at it that way. Why is it that taking millions from big oil or for-profit health insurance is routine for our elected representatives, but that tweeting sexy pics inspires condemnation and expulsion? Especially when you think about how much of a conflict of interest corporate campaign contributions are compared to tweeting sexy pics. People can talk about how cheating on one's pregnant wife is about character, but when politicians get away with so many other things of dubious character, I find that a little ridiculous.

Putting all that aside, I believe that it's up to a representative's constituents to decide whether or not their representative has too many character flaws. In my opinion, it's none of the rest of our business.

I've just googled 'santorum' and been reading up on the scandals, Mother Jones has an article that quotes you Dan as saying "If Rick Santorum wants to make a $5 million donation to [the gay marriage group] Freedom to Marry, I will take it down" referring to SpreadingSantorum.com. I agree with your assumption that you won't hear from any legit gays who 'love' rick santorum, but I'm waiting to hear the bigger scandal, you know what they say about the bigger the homophobe... maybe #89 -or the press secretary, knows something?
http://tinyurl.com/fivepmcruise

Keep up the great blog Dan, and don't sell out for a mere 5 mil, make him tear up his pledge and publicly support dadt repeal.

also, time to update santorum's wikipedia page to include spreadingsantorum.com in the links.

All this talk about fisting is inspiring a round of Kegels.

@82:

I don't know where you're getting that figure, but it's waaaaay the hell off. Evolution is a brutal mistress, yes, but a maternal mortality rate of 25% would be utterly unsustainable.

According to the WHO, "where nothing is done to avert maternal death, 'natural' mortality is around 1000–1500 per 100,000 births, an estimate based on historical studies and data from contemporary religious groups who do not intervene in childbirth." That's a maternal mortality rate of 1% - 1.5%.

This is not to say, of course, that every single woman on the planet is capable of safely (let alone happily) accommodating a fist in her vagina. But let's face it: the vagina absolutely did evolve to spit out babies. The process isn't foolproof, yes, but no biological process is. Sometimes people get heart attacks or are born with heart defects; does this mean that the heart didn't evolve to pump blood?

Dan, I remember recently, you said something about loving cupcakes and cocks, and I was instantly reminded of something awesome a friend of mine made. Behold: The Cupcock!

http://www.etsy.com/listing/74840028/cup…

Thank you, @96. Also, the bottleneck (so to speak) in childbirth is not the vagina, which is soft tissue, but the pelvis, which is bone. Totally separate issue.

P.S. I believe that 25% figure was the cumulative lifetime risk (not risk per birth) for European women a few centuries ago. This was a time/place where women had absurdly large numbers of children and gave birth in unsanitary conditions. Best estimates are that prehistoric women went 4-5 years between births, for a total of maybe 5 childbirths in a lifetime.

@30 & 81 - I don't understand comparing fisting to accommodating a large penis. At least for me, the problem with large penises is that they're banging into my cervix, over and over; if it were just a matter of putting the penis in once, slowly, that would be fine.

Am I missing part of the point of your comparison?

@91 so your argument is that we should not care about either instead of caring about both?

@96 et al I got it in class. if I still had that prof I'd ask about the figure but I don't. I imagine that maybe it is a lifetime risk? Point is: people were using 'a vagina is designed to spit out babies' to explain fisting which is spurious. Vaginas - and hearts! - weren't 'designed' at all. Also, the heart is not such a classic example of competing selective pressures whereas childbirth is.

@102, the lovely Erica
it's both! But I have personally find the discomfort of a large penis width-wise to be much more painful than the ocassional cervix-collision.

@106 The last one said: "oh, dear, I seem to have started your period." Idiot.

@mydriasis - thanks for explaining! :-)