Savage Love

Monogamish

Comments

1
First letter sounds like a fake. Second letter: I feel bad that they love each other, because his dependence and her independence do not and will not work for either of them.
4
I still don't believe it. That it's not piss. Just don't. Even a "crack" team (haha) in Vienna doesn't convince me. Why Vienna? No researchers anywhere else? I think it's yet another Porn Myth that makes a bazillion dollars for a few sleazy dudes while simultaneously giving poor old regular women another hoop to jump through. It's not enough to look like a porn star, even down to having plastic surgery on your hoohah, and having to fake an interest in other women when you don't feel it. The world would be a happier place if guys didn't learn about sex with women from porn.
5
My partner says my "squirt" (his term) doesn't taste like pee. But he also swears he's never drank pee, so how can he really say for sure?
6
Letter 1 got me thinking about a funny story about my first week at the patent office: We newbies were in a class where we were learning how to search our databases for things that were already patented. The instructor was demonstrating on the screen how to search for "oh, let's say, 'children's toys, maybe a type of squirt gun.'" Not sure what search terms she typed in, but a few seconds later there were several squirting dildos displayed in full glory on the huge projector screen, with all the engineering labels and functional details ("rubber straps," "lubricant supply chamber," "useful for men or women" etc). The instructor was mortified and it took her an hilarious amount of time to get the pictures off the screen. Since patent examination is very specific as to subject (one person examines all the applications for buttons and snaps, for example) I thought it amazing that there is a patent examiner who looks at these pictures as a full-time job.

That was a long story. Sorry.
As a reward, peruse the drawings in this patent.

NSFW:
http://patimg2.uspto.gov/.piw?docid=0620… ://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2%2526Sect2=HITOFF%2526p=1%2526u=%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsearch-bool.html%2526r=2%2526f=G%2526l=50%2526co1=AND%2526d=PTXT%2526s1=(dildo.CLTX.%252Bor%252Bdildo.DCTX.)%2526s2=water%2526OS=ACLM/dildo%252BAND%252Bwater%2526RS=ACLM/dildo%252BAND%252Bwater
7
@4: squirting is very real, and no, it isn't piss. Not every woman squirts- in fact, I've only been with two or three that did out of over 50- but I can tell you that it doesn't smell like piss or taste like it (based on what I've heard about the taste of piss- haven't tried it myself).

Squirting wasn't common in porn back when I was checking out porn, so don't make assumptions about where we learn about sex, okay? Me, I learned it firsthand.

Regarding monogamish: a great term if you're willing to disclose such intimate facts, but for many of us that's none of anyone else's business, unless it's someone that my wife and I want to fool around with. Even using such a term will result in far too many questions for my liking.
8
@4

Um... I'm sorry what?
I've been with enough guys and have never had anyone ask me to jump through the "hoop" of "squirting".
I don't even think most guys are that interested in it, to be honest.
9
I think CCG shouldn't stay with a clingy/needy guy - and "can't sleep without me in his bed" is certainly over the line - but I think he's perfectly entitled to object to her working as a stripper. Her dancing to sexually arouse customers in a strip club means that other people are, essentially, involved in the couple's sex life and I find it perfectly reasonable that he doesn't like that one bit, even if he was fine with her doing it before the relationship. I certainly wouldn't (nor would my partner).
This is an issue that people in a good relationship need to be able to negotiate and talk about. (Same would apply, e.g. for sperm or egg donations). Settling it by ultimatum is pointless. If you want to end the relationship, go ahead, but keeping an insecure guy, scared to lose his first partner, in a relationship with an ultimatum is a shitty move.
10
Wait, what? Your criticism is that the study was done in Vienna? Do you not think they have science in Europe? I'm more curious about the tiny sample size, it's not totally convincing until they get some bigger numbers.

Also, while there is porn for everything, I don't think female ejaculation is a commonplace event. Last I heard it's the Average Woman who should be worried about people thinking it's piss, lest men be grossed out by women who can/do ejaculate and thereby have an excuse to deny them orgasm.

While it is a risk that then there will be unnecessary pressure on men/women to cause/experience FE when there is no evidence to suggest that every woman can do it, that's a completely separate issue from the ejaculate's composition.
11
Wait, what? Your criticism is that the study was done in Vienna? Do you not think they have science in Europe? I'm more curious about the tiny sample size, it's not totally convincing until they get some bigger numbers.

Also, while there is porn for everything, I don't think female ejaculation is a commonplace event. Last I heard it's the Average Woman who should be worried about people thinking it's piss, lest men be grossed out by women who can/do ejaculate and thereby have an excuse to deny them orgasm.

While it is a risk that then there will be unnecessary pressure on men/women to cause/experience FE when there is no evidence to suggest that every woman can do it, that's a completely separate issue from the ejaculate's composition.
12
I'm a hetero-ish male in one of those "giant slut" relationships. I've never been with a squirter, have no particular interest in squirting, but I would absolutely purchase a squirt-facilitating strap on. I mean, come ON. I cannot believe that the dude posted that idea all over the Internets.
13
On thinking about the squirting dildo idea- for it to work there would have to be some force behind the squirt, and a tube fastened to her urethra that could be sealed to her. Then you'd have to figure out what makes women squirt, so you could reproduce it mechanically.

A tube sealed to her urethra would not be comfortable at all- imagine shoving a tube into your dick and sealing it, then shooting a load into it. Don't know about you, but that sounds like it would HURT.

But more than that- the squirt is usually more like a good sized dribble than a forceful blast that shoots out. Not enough to force it into a guy.

And as for making her squirt, that's the hardest part. My wife does it when she gets the g-spot going, but also does it if she's exceptionally turned on and I'm rubbing her clit fast and firmly. There really is no one way to trigger it, it just happens when she's really in the zone and might be caused by a number of things.

Sorry, not feasible. Cute idea though.
14
@4: Just because real female ejaculate isn't piss, doesn't mean that the same must follow for what's portrayed as female ejaculate in porn. The fact that you just jacked off to some woman drenching her co-star with a blast from the fire hydrant and are understandably sceptical about the provenance of said blast does not in itself constitute a meaningful rebuttal. Every time this topic comes up, at least half a dozen armchair Randis with hand-cramps come out of the woodwork.
15
CCG some men just can't handle a relationship with a sex worker. Although I guess stripping (if it is truly limited to just stripping)is on the periphery of the sex industry. I get the feeling that at some point she will want to open the relationship. If so, she should end it now since I doubt he could handle anytime soon, if ever.
16
I squirt occasionally, and it doesn't smell like pee and my boyfriend has never commented on it smelling or tasting like pee. My sheets don't smell like pee afterward. It's really more like a woosh than a squirt with force behind it though, so I doubt the invention idea would work. It definitely exists though.
17
Clown College Graduate: Dan may give your boyfriend the benefit of the doubt (he's nice that way), but I don't see why your boyfriend deserves it. He's a passive/aggressive jerk (P/AJ) who is putting his needs way above yours. Plus you and he just seem very poorly matched. Is this the kind of relationship you were shooting for?

On the other hand, not wanting your girlfriend to strip (but JUST that issue) is not really that extraordinary, IF he were emotionally normal and not the P/AJ that he apparently is.

Like @9 said.
18
13 is right. It would have to be a little squirt gun, rather than something to actually funnel the female ejaculate into the guy. Hey, maybe the triggering mechanism could be up inside the woman. She orgasms: *squeeze- squeeze - squeeze* and it goes off: *sqirt - squirt - squirt*
19
A lifelike one of those would be useful for transmen. The opportunity to give their partners pearl necklaces. But how to simulate semen?

I want money out of this :D
20
I'm confused about female ejaculation. I THINK i've done it--but I'm not sure. How much of the stuff is normal? Because those sprays on porn don't look real, and from my experience it wouldn't be enough to rig up to a dildo
21
Big surprise that ginourmous link broke.

NSFW!

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/620349…

That research paper is very convincing. The source of the ejaculate is a large gland surrounding the urethra. And, also, the gland connects to the urethra by a small tube, just like in men. It may be de-evolved in some women, but in their two subjects it clearly was still functioning like a female prostate.
22
Tucatz/7: "...but I can tell you that it doesn't smell like piss or taste like it"

You're 100% correct from my, *ahem*, experience.

That's all I'm saying about that.

And yes, there are women who squirt, and women who puddle. Female ejaculation is all dependent on the level & type of arousal. I haven't much to say to the doubters. It's kinda like talking to people who "doubt" global climate change, or schizophrenics. Nothing you say will convince them away from their crazy.
23
I first encountered the concept of squirting from Tommy Lee's biography, and it horrified me (I'm a woman, btw). A couple months later, I was in my second trimester of pregnancy, experiencing my first orgasms ever, and whoops I squirted. I about died from mortification, and I'm still not too pleased with my new skill, but the fact is: good orgasms make me ejaculate, and not ejaculating makes orgasms feel lacking. I'm lucky to have had one partner during that discovery and to this day, and I haven't figure out how I would introduce it to a new one, but it's my reality and it feels good. Lay down a towel and enjoy.
24
Okay, I went to the Michigan womyn's music festival (awesome) and attended a seminar on female ejaculation (seriously). It was equally amazing to the anal sex demo (Tristan Taormino I love you.)

Anyway.

They took 3 or 4 random women volunteers from the group and an instructor got them all to ejaculate in front of the group.

The moral of this story is oh my God lesbians are awesome. Also female ejaculation is real.
25
It's not piss, you fucking morons who think it's piss. Female ejaculate comes from the Skene's glands through the urethra, not from the kidneys/bladder. Just like guys pee and jizz out the same hole, so do (some lucky) women. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skene%27s_g…

"It has been demonstrated that a large amount of lubricating fluid (filtered blood plasma) can be secreted from this gland when stimulated from inside the vagina."

"The Skene's glands are homologous with the prostate gland in males. The fluid that emerges during sex, female ejaculation, has a composition somewhat similar to the semen generated in males by the prostate gland, containing biochemical markers of sexual function."

"Because they are increasingly perceived as merely different versions of the same gland, some researchers are moving away from the name Skene's gland and are referring to it instead as the female prostate."

As for why not every woman does it, "Skene's glands have highly variable anatomy, and in some extreme cases they appear to be absent entirely. If Skene's glands are the cause of female ejaculation and G-Spot-orgasms, this may explain the absence in many women."
26
Out of a sample of about twenty, I've been only with one woman who really ejaculates -- quite a lot actually -- (though several did get wet puddles). She was actually very shy about that, and thought there was 'something wrong' with her (she had never heard about it happening to any other woman). I was thoroughly delighted, managed to change her mind about it, and we both learned to enjoy it. Sigh!...

No, it didn't taste at all like piss. On the other hand, it didn't taste at all like male ejaculate either. It was much thinner than male ejaculate, and much more plentiful. Its smell was pungent, but only slightly (i.e., it felt like it was diluted in water). Since I'm not a chemist, that's all I can say.

Tastes vary, of course, and I know there are guys out there who would be horrified by female ejaculate. But frankly, I find it glorious -- and remembering how ashamed that particular girlfriend was about her 'squirt', I think it's important to tell women who squirt that there is nothing wrong about it. Just as there is nothing wrong about not squirting -- hey, there's more than one way to have fun. Way more.

We should simply always take people as they come. Pun intended.
27
thank you for your comment No9 and " it is this or the highway" is a casus belli for me and frankly i do not know who is more manipulative he or she. My own advice is that your part with the guy obviously you have different attitudes in life and some serious irreconcilable differences.
28
@13: The way your wife squirts isn't the way every squirting woman squirts- hers might be more of a dribble, but mine is projectile with range up to 12 feet or so. The only problem is that I can't aim it at all, but if he had some kind of funneling device, it could work, assuming his girlfriend squirts like me and not like your wife.

Also, to people who think it's piss, it's totally not. It smells different and it's not yellow. Mine is clear, and I've heard of other women having a kind of white color, but I've never heard of yellow female ejaculate.

And to those people who don't think the porn squirters are real, maybe some of them aren't, but don't think it isn't possible, because I can do that. Scared the crap out of me the first time I masturbated because I had no idea if that was supposed to happen or not.
29
@4 I don't think there's any overwhelming demand for women to ejaculate. I first learned about the phenomenon from a sex advice column in a teen girl magazine; the letter-writer was worried that there was something wrong with her, like maybe she peed herself uncontrollably when she came. Orgasms are a pretty loaded (haha) subject, especially for us women -- I'm sure almost all of us have felt pressured (socially or personally) at some point to come more, or less, or differently. Which sucks. Our pleasure is our damn business!

Random aside, I'm disappointed to learn that Tristan Taormino presented at MichFest. Apparently sex-positive doesn't necessarily equal trans-positive. :(
30
What on earth is a degree in circus arts?? That sounds awesome, and I wanted to hear way more about that and less about the problem!
31
@29: Is MichFest still transphobic? That's sad. I doubt Taormino supported their transphobic policies just because she did a workshop there.

@4: Nice trolling... well done.
32
Anent the squirting dildo -- does the dildo really have to squirt her ejaculatory fluid? I mean, if the squirt is the whole point of the exercise, and if routing the squirtage through the end of the dildo would require painful (and probably unworkable) rigging, why not just design/use a dildo that squirts something else (water, saline solution, Grey Goose) when the female partner squeezes a bulb or something? No, it's a step away from "real" ejaculate, but once you start talking about pegging and tubes inserted into the urethra I think it's time to stop talking about authenticity, no?
33
Sandiai-6-- No, that wasn't too long a story. I loved it for the humor and for the perspective. Too often, I slog through comments without ever learning anything interesting. Then I happen on one that makes me think about something in a new way. No one who is drawn to this column is entirely new to the idea of sex toys. I never before considered the invention and patent aspect before. Thanks.
34
Forgawdsakes women are so uptight about sexual nonconformity. OMG, don't talk about mythical female ejaculation or that will put more pressure on women to "perform" this new trick! (welcome to our world, ladies). Or, OMG I feel like such a freak, what will my boyfriend think?!
Men are pigs when it comes to sex. If your man likes feet or eating pussy or rimming your ass or golden showers or just plain old getting sweaty together, he's not likely to make a fuss over female ejaculation if you do it. And if there becomes a "performance" issue, the expectation to produce an ejaculation is most likely going to fall on him. Just freaking relax and enjoy the sex, with or without female ejaculate.
35
"So I've got a new word to describe relationships like yours, mine, and your mom's, IIC: "monogamish." We're mostly monogamous, not swingers, not actively looking. Monogamish." This perfectly sums up my partner and I. Excellent letter, excellent advice!
36
I was with the same woman for 20 years and she never ejaculated...you would say she is one of those women who just does not. I was only vaguely aware of the phenomenon and certainly didn't work for or hope for it, nor did she. One day, in a threesome with me and a guy she found very attractive (and very large FWIW--okay, so we were "monogamish") she clearly ejaculated. And then IN THE VERY SAME WEEK, I was with a different woman for only the second or third time, and she ejaculated as well (at least I know it wasn't just me). Go figure
37
I just want to say that I'm happy to live in a world where advice columns start with: "You probably get this question every day. I'm a man who loves it when my girlfriend fucks me with a strap-on."

You've done a lot of good work, Dan.
38
All PTBMC needs to remember is that everyone has a different definition of monogamous. I know some couples (mostly gay males) who say things like "Yes, we're monogamous; we have sex with other people, but we always come home to each other" which frankly I think is ridiculous nonsense, but hey, to each his bone.
39
I still don't believe it. That it's not piss. Just don't. Even a "crack" team (haha) in Vienna doesn't convince me. Why Vienna? No researchers anywhere else? I think it's yet another Porn Myth that makes a bazillion dollars for a few sleazy dudes while simultaneously giving poor old regular women another hoop to jump through. It's not enough to look like a porn star, even down to having plastic surgery on your hoohah, and having to fake an interest in other women when you don't feel it. The world would be a happier place if guys didn't learn about sex with women from porn.


The world would be a better place if some women didn't blame porn for their boyfriends being jackasses.

A better option would be to stop having sex with jackasses.
40
best bunch of comments to a bunch of lame letters! my abs hurt @6,8,11,13,20,24,25,32-the lolz just don't stop! whew
41
#2 Thanks for our weekly dose of SPAM.
42
OMFG, I am a patent agent. I will be happy to write that patent for you.

The patent office is full of interesting and sometimes horrifying patents. Check out this dildo bong that uses a vagina as part of the water chamber to stimulate the one being penetrated with the bubbles.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=Zhd7AAA…
45
Regarding female ejaculation:

My gf from a decade ago had a hard time orgasming. In fact, she had only done it once in her life before we were together, and she didn't for the first three years we were together. I found this really frustrating at first, she was more accepting. I certainly made an effort, many efforts, to get her off. But she disuaded me. So, for awhile, that was the way it was.

To be honest, there were issues in our relationship, and she said partly she was holding back. But she was holding back in another way: she said she often felt close to coming, but held back because it felt like she had to pee.

Eventually, she learned to let go. She became quite orgasmic. And usually when she came, she gushed fluid and we got quite a wet spot in the bed. It was kind of funny.

And no, it was not actually pee. Like a previous commenter said, it was dilute and watery, but slightly pungent. It was clearly bodily fluid, but a fairly innocuous one. It was not smelly like her pee, which was normal pee-smelly. I know because she was a California hippie and abided by the "when it's yellow let it mellow, when it's brown, flush it down" rule.
46
I'd really like to take the side of CCG on this one (the BF certainly does sound like a clingy, controlling baby), but . . . anyone who chose to go to college to study to be a clown is automatically downgraded in any dispute. So, unless she writes in to say that said BF may actually be a serial killer or a conservative christian, I'd have to go against her.

Because she's a fucking clown.
47
@45

Way, way, way too much info, bro.
48
I'm not a big fan of "monogamish." I'm polyamorous, and I want to make polyamory and other types of whole-hearted non-monogamy more socially acceptable. When I hear about people who are monogamish, I feel like the hegemony of monogamy is actually getting additional ammunition. If I were practical and empathetic, I'd understand that other people were different from me, and the more we can fill out the spectrum of sexual and relationship interests and desires, the better. But, as a married polyamorous person living in a monogamous society, the idea of monogamish annoys me. Call me narrow minded and selfish if you'd like (because I am), but that's my reaction.
49
Re IIC – I know she wasn't asking for advice about her difficulties with "sex and arousal," but I was struck by the phrase: "when the sex works, it's amazing." Should she and her husband be looking into hormonal questions, or other issues which might be interfering with their (sometimes) amazing sex? It's just sad to hear about someone who is one year into a marriage and accepts that "sex and arousal can be difficult for me."

@9, 27 People who threaten to leave unless their partner changes in some way – that's an ultimatum. People who make their own decisions in life ("I took control of my own sexuality via stripping"), and accept that their partner may end up leaving them -– they are not issuing ultimatums. Some things in a relationship (ie pregnancy) have to be decided by consensus, but a person's career and sexuality doesn't have to be decided that way. I think she should be herself, and if he needs to be with someone who is more conventional, let him make that decision.
50
As a 27 y/o lesbian I can attest that squirting is a legitimate phenomenon, if one that not every woman can achieve (like myself). I've been with 2 squirters, and rest assured, it did not taste like pee, nor did it expel itself like pee. There was A LOT of it, and I mean A LOT. Like, dripping down my face and arms a lot, for over a minute. The first time it happened I was more than a little confused and intrigued, but as time went on I found it a satisfying confirmation of my ability to please these women. To dispel any more myths, squirters don't always squirt every time, in fact when I was with these women the times when they ejaculated were rare and memorable.

Perhaps squirting is one of those genetic predispositions, like being able to fold your tongue into 3 folds, or having connected earlobes. I dunno, but it happens, and it can be sexy when it does. :)
51
@44 and 45. Looks like Michelle Bachman is super mad someone found out her husband is gay. Simmer down, Mich, it's God's will.
52
oops, I meant @43 and 44.
45 you're fine, or, well, fine-ish.
53
Dan, I love you, but I don't think I like "monogamish." It sounds wishy-washy, indecisive, uncommitted, and I am none of those things.

I don't know what the right word is -- I don't like anything that starts with "poly-" and sounds like it wants a cracker -- but what the right word would express is "married/unworried." I am not worried that sex outside my relationship will destroy it. I'm just not.

Monogamous with benefits?
54
Mostly off topic but where oh where do I find a man that wants to be pegged?? Not one of my boyfriends would even come CLOSE to letting me near their cute asses....not even a finger!

I have tried everything to get them to try it.

It's going from fantasy to obsession!!!!
55
I'm going to get crucified for this, but if a woman is starting off with a totally empty bladder, then the small amount of ejaculate that comes out is not pee. However, unlike men women don't have that valve that shuts off the bladder when they orgasm, so if a woman ejaculates with a full bladder then absolutely most of the liquid that is coming out is pee (mixed with small amounts of girl ejaculate). The Skene's glands aren't the size of a grapefruit, people. When women shoot six feet, most of that fluid is pee.
56
@53 -- Monogamy plus?
57
@54 getting pegged is something I've always wanted to try but couldn't get my ladies to do it to me.
58
Monoga-wise?
59
The study Dan mentions sounded worse than a joke because of the tiny sample size, but apparently The Journal of Sexual Medicine is a reputable peer-reviewed journal published by a reputable firm and has a more than respectable impact factor. Of course, @4, this does not explain why they'd publish a study conducted by a lot of inbred Austrian mutants.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/journal/1…

60
@57 That just upsets me! In 5 minutes someone said they always wanted it and years have gone by and i haven't met a man that actually did :(

Feelin' sorry for myself now.........lol
61
@1: What basis do you have for thinking it's fake? *My* wife likes pegging me, and she squirts too. I would totally buy this toy if he made and sold them.
62
How can we get @54 and @57 together?
63
The lady who wants to find a man who wants to be pegged could try fetlife.com It's a free website and has many kinky folks looking for play partners. As a free site, it also has a lot of phonies and flakes, so caution is in order..
64
re: CCG

As a fairly emotionally needy dude who dated a lovely woman during period when she went from being a waitress, to being a waitress at a strip club, to actually stripping, I'd like to offer a line of argument to CCG.

Basically, there was nothing sexier, more flattering, and ultimately more security-inducing than knowing that although she spent her evenings as the center of attention in a room full of men who would have given nearly anything to be with her, she still came back to me every night. She rejected them all--no matter how handsome, no matter how rich or professionally accomplished, and accepted me. With a regular girlfriend, the fear that she'll meet and leave you for some guy who simply outclasses you always lurks in the back of the mind... but with her, she'd already seen them all and made her choice.

Plus, not only did she come back to me, but she came back to me horny as hell. While it wasn't exactly a perfect situation, and I from time-to-time pushed her to stop (not because I cared, but because it wasn't really a good environment for her and her body image issues; on a couple occasions she came back in tears instead), I honestly remember it as six of the happiest months of my life.
65
The product that would come out of OMFG's ass, if he can get his device to work, should be called BACHMANN.
66
Suprisingly, "Is that Shit Really Piss" is the title of Dr. Atkins new book.
67
Marrena @ 55, your comment is wrong in so many ways, and I was going to sit here and look up factual research points and then I decided that you weren't worth it.
68
@54

You might try introducing the boyfriend to prostrate massage. He can experiment with it himself, as the prostate can be reached with one finger on the forward wall just inside the anus. Massaging the prostrate while masturbating is amazing in my experience, increasing the feeling both in magnitude and in the different feeling it generates. I have never had a strap-on experience, but assume that it is the contact with the prostate that makes those men who enjoy being pegged, want it. There is literature available on the subject of prostate massage. Tantra talks about it and Tantrikas do it. Check out "Sexuality.org" which has a wealth of articles on everything you ever wanted to know about sex but were afraid to ask.
Keep in mind that a person has to want to do something before they will be willing to change their approach. That means "selling" them on why they should want to do it. Not why you want them to do it. Introduce him to some articles casually and let his curiosity emerge. The idea of a greatly enhanced orgasm can be a powerful motivator to overcome any problem developed in childhood about not touching the "dirty thing" and its attendant smell etc.

Merlin
69
#39... I <3 you, you are awesome.

I'm not an ejaculator, though I make puddles. I have a sensory disorder and the plus side is I am very, very sexually sensitive. I come a lot. I've come from having my elbows rubbed and no other contact.

We are all a little different from everyone else. Female ejaculation is just one of those differences. It's not a "trick" someone can learn - it's like curling your tongue. You can, or you can't, and neither is bad.
70
@65: i'm reposting your comment for a wider audience:

"The product that would come out of OMFG's ass, if he can get his device to work, should be called BACHMANN." by BTO
71
This is just more proof that the people with the most exciting sex lives are the ones who rarely if ever talk about them. I'm suspicious of the Ross Douthat types who jaw on and on about how emotionally and physically satisfying monogamy is in their marriage and how enlightened their sex lives are. And Christianist types love talking about sex, just think of poor Gail Haggard bragging (pre-meth and hookers) about how awesome the sex was with Ted. Ew. All talk, no action.

On the contrary, people who have tons of filthy, fulfilling orgasms don't talk about it as much, as talking is way more boring than doing. The quietest, more boring married couple you know could likely be fisting everybody in the tri-state area, and playing scrabble and cooking stir-fry just to recover.
72
Hey, lay off Gayle Haggard! Bitch can't help it if she's a Closeted Gamma Wife (or, if you prefer, a Gamma Wife Wannabe).
73
My girlfriend ejaculates, and we just keep a pile of towels by the bed. No problem.

The term "squirter" is kind of crude, but the only other term I've heard in regular use is "rainmaker," which is kind of precious. Dan, you got any better words for women who ejaculate?
74
@71
The implication being that filthy/fufilling orgasms happen in poly relationships (or monogamish) and monogamous couples just run their mouths and never fuck? Give me a fucking break.

Someone in the previous thread summed up my feelings about monogamy perfectly: time is finite.

For me personally?
Hours in a week: 24 x 7 = 168
less sleep = 112
less work time = 88
less time on campus = 64
less laundry = 62
less transit = 50
less studying = 45
less showers and grooming = 34
less grocery shopping = 32
less yoga = 31
less cooking/eating time = 17
less other appointments = 15

okay so that's 15 hours.

A lot of that is unusable time (I usually don't do much between 9pm when I get home from class and 11pm when I shower before bed) So generally that works out to about two or three chunks of social time per week depending on exams/midterms/work demands.

Generally that means 1-3 times a week I see my man and 0-1 times a week I see friends. The only place I'd get time for someone else is by taking away time from someone I already see less than I'd like.

Doesn't make sense for me.

But maybe y'all have more free time.
75
Regarding female squirt, puddles, flow-down-the-crack-of-her-ass-finger-lube, or (my favorite) slip-and-bust-your-butt-on-a-hardwood-floor cum: it doesn't happen with everyone and, generally speaking, those who don't have it or who haven't experienced it don't want to hear about those other girls you knew who do.
77
@74

Time and emotional energy. That's finite too.

I actually have two girlfriends, and I find it really stressful, because dealing with people for me is quite hard work even when I like them, so as well as girlfriend-time and friend-time, there also has to be no-one-time, or nobody will want to spend time with me anyway because I'll be a grumpy, volatile, socially-incompetent bitch.

In terms of pure time I can handle multiple partners (mostly because I don't sleep much or study enough...), but in terms of emotional energy two full-on girlfriends is really more than I'm totally comfortable with. If it was a situation of one girlfriend and casual sex on the side, though, I might be able to cope with that in terms of both time and energy. But what I actually have is the opposite (one of them is asexual, so I actually only have one person I have sex with) and it's the level of emotional input that has to go into maintaining multiple relationships that I find difficult.

(And then I consider the fact that I'm going to be sharing a house with both of them from next month, and I think I may have a nervous breakdown by Christmas...)
78
@55 does hit on a good point. I'm not a doubter, but where is this volume coming from? If the female prostate is analogous to the male prostate, (and the porn geysers aren't completely a joke) it must be an order of magnitude larger ... as in, not just 50% larger, or even twice as large, but 10 or more times larger. Or is it not stored? Somebody shed some light here.
Oh, and never been with a squirter. Been with oozers,though, and assumed it was lubricant being squeezed out by orgasmic contractions. Maybe that was ejaculate?
80
and so the worm turns...
83
Hunter...

my schedule isn't meant to be noteworthy, it's meant to be (somewhat) average (so as to illustrate my point).

Without knowing my schedule, how could you know my arithmatic is poor? Unless you're arguing that 24 x 7 isn't 168. Sounds like classic trolling to me! :)

Are you actually arguing that flirting takes a relationship from monogamous to "monogamish" or poly??
85
The Vienna study is not the only study out there on female ejaculation. Some were even done in the good ol' US of A, as if that's any real recommendation. Most studies are European, because they aren't nearly as fucking uptight about sex as this country is. Research has to be funded, imagine how easy it must be to get money put in your hand after announcing "We're going to diddle a bunch of women til they squirt".

We've had this arguement before, piss or not piss. Right now I love Dan for his extensive research and persuasive stance on the right side of this debate. And @24, I'm so jealous--I've been to Tristan's lectures (she's so damn cute!!) but in retail settings, so by law there couldn't be any, ahem, hands on demonstrations.

And one more testimonial--squirting is totally real. In fact, I squirted about 30 minutes ago....
86
15 - What evidence do you have for that? Oh, honey, there are A LOT of women who don't even think about sex when doing their JOB which might just happen to be stripping. I did that job for about 4 years and nope, I never felt some dreary urge to "open" the relationship. If you're a guy, just remember that for MOST women it is just a job and that's all it is. Sure, there are those "young-naive-woman-who-found-her-sexuality-when-she-stripped" types but they are definitely not common and they're not the majority. So, you can remove that thought from the "fill-in-the-blank-with-assumptions" section of your brain. Stripper does not automatically equal woman who will end up wanting an open relationship. Say it to yourself now.
87
4 - I do agree about young men needing to learn about sex from somewhere besides porn mainly because of the drift towards violence, rape and hatred of women that is becoming more and more commonplace but that is beside the point. The rest of your post is very telling. It really sounds like you need to work on your self esteem. You have mentioned all these ways that you are "just doing things you don't want to do to please some man" when it is YOUR sex life. You need to learn how to enjoy it and then expect that feeling of satisfaction and, depending on the person, that feeling of connection. Do you really pretend to want to be with women just so you're not left out? If you don't like it, don't do it. In fact, don't do ANYTHING that you don't like doing. Why? Because when you do things that really make you uncomfortable and you don't enjoy it you are training your sex partner to have no concern about your part in the sex. The reality is, there ARE plenty of sex partners out there who will suit YOU - ok, that is if you just want to have sex. I know that is silly considering this thread but if you don't have any hang ups or neurotic fetishes then you should have a lifetime of acceptable sex partners. For every man who expects piss, there will be hundreds who wouldn't have a clue and if they met a woman who ejaculated would most likely be ok with it or at least willing to learn about that particular woman. Right now, you're letting others and fear and paranoia dictate to you what you should think and feel and that is a monumental waste of time. Learn what makes you orgasm and learn what thoughts turn you on and what sort of partner does it for you and then start having those as your strongest thoughts instead of obsessing about what is happening in porn. Even if a man watched it from his teenage years and hadn't slept with a woman until his '30s, it would be doubtful that the ONE man you end up with in bed will be the one who insists on all sorts of unrealistic malarcky found in a porno. If you keep on obsessing about you WILL put pressure on yourself and you will also attract those sorts of people. Take over your sex life and start enjoying it and you may just meet some really great guys who want what you want! I really don't get you women who have been brainwashed into believing your wants don't matter. The first time a man gives off that whiff of "expecting" some tedious act he saw in porn? Kick him to the curb. There'll be another one for sure. Don't let someone else decide for you.
88
28 - 12 whole feet, eh? You may want to buy a measuring tape.
89
55 - Well said and something I learned back in medical school - that would be before Wikipedia, kids. I've been laughing at all the posts because you are right, it isn't the size of a grapefruit. Your comment made me LOL.
90
Mydriasis: my last several partners asked me repeatedly if I squirt and got all mopey when I said that I don't. I'm glad nobody's given you that "hoop" to jump through but I promise you, it happens.

Tangent to nobody in particular: my boyfriend and I are now officially monogamish! (I love that word...) The other day, with permission from my boyfriend (and after having discussed the general idea for months), I made out with another dude. I half-expected my bf to be upset after the fact (lots of things sound fine in theory but are less fine in practice) but nope, I came home from hanging out with this dude and said "Yeah, so ___ and I made out" and my bf was like, "Cool."

So I get to have the security of a long-term loving relationship and the thrill of first kisses! I feel like the luckiest girl in the world. :D
91
@cowgirl

Really? Shitty. Sorry to hear that. (re: the squirting, not the kisses)

I don't squirt either and I'm glad I don't. Pointless mess in my books.
92
@74 wait, I'm not trying to be snarky or anything but I don't understand your system. Are you subtracting each of those numbers from 168? Or are those monthly numbers?
93
@92: Each time allotment is being deducted from the previous total, and the number listed is the amount of time left. So after subtracting sleep, she's left with 112 hours left, and after subtracting work, she's left with 88 hours.

And if I spent 12 hours a week in transit, 11 hours a week on washing and grooming, and 14 hours a week on cooking and eating, I think I'd go insane. Although time spent cooking and eating is also often social time as well. And of course I probably spend 60 hours a week on the computer so I shouldn't be talking.

Also, 2 hours a week on laundry? How is that possible? I think I spend about 10 minutes a week on laundry.
94
84, I agree. It sounds like this guy is clingy and immature in other respects, which is probably what provoked Dan's negative reaction. If the stripping job issue is considered by itself, though, the boyfriend has every right to be bothered by it. There are a lot of jobs I wouldn't be comfortable with a partner doing, and most of them have nothing to do with sex--except insofar as screwing people unfairly out of their money might be involved! If those choices can matter to a relationship, then why shouldn't taking a stripping job matter? I wouldn't want to date a bounty hunter, chiropractor, bullrider, or derivatives trader either.
95
@94: I just have to ask: why those jobs?
97
@87-- "Drift towards violence, rape, and hatred towards women that is becoming more commonplace."

Do you mean in porn or in the culture at large in its attitudes towards sex and sexuality in general?

I wouldn't know what the trends are in porn. From what I see of crime statistics on violence against women, from what I read in history as to what was considered violence against women, from what I note looking at the media, and talking to folks in general, violence, rape, and hatred towards women are on the decrease.
98
@4

You know what, dude? I would have totally agreed with you until a few months ago.

I've slept with more than my fair share of women. I would consider myself a man with more than average experience.

A few months ago, during a drug-fuelled nonstop weekend sex marathon that involved a lot of fisting (first time with her) with a longtime lover, there was a lot of squirting. Actually "squirting" is a complete understatement. Gushing. Spraying. Flooding. over and over and over and over. The damned mattress was soaked and I, *I*, mr. openminded was pretty damned squicked, I have to ashamedly admit. I'm pushing 40 and I've never seen that shit before. We're talking litres and litres of liquid over the weekend.

Anyway. Trying to say, as have others in this thread, squirting does, in fact, exist.

It's not common, but it exists.
99
oh. sorry. I re-read comment 4 and realize it's coming from a chick not a dude. sorry.

Your comment makes even less sense now. Unless you've been with lots of women, how could you decide that it doesn't exist based on what? the fact that you don't squirt?

dumb.
100
I have been in monogamish relationships and totally understand the dilemma. On the one hand, I didn't want to help perpetuate the illusion that everyone is monogamous. But on the other, revealing the real deal is more info than is really appropriate for most.

It's (ironically!) almost easier to talk about it if you are completely poly, because there are words for it. But, there are often even fewer people that it is comfortable to talk about that with!

I've gotten so tired of being in the closet as a poly person that I've started blogging, anonymously. If anyone wants to check it out, I'm at www.polygrrl.com. Would love to hear your comments.
101
65 and 70 are my heros. And geniuses.
102
The female ejaculation is not a myth! It does however require rather more than wham/bam/thank you mam. I have been priviledge to experience the female ejaculation in more than 70% of the relationships that I have had. For some ladies it was immediate and continued throughout the relationship. For some of the others it did not happen until there was a deeper emotional tie between us. For the smaller portion of relationships that did not include female ejaculation I had a sense that some of the women were holding back because of inner taboos and or self-esteem issues that did not allow them to completely embrace their sexuality. When it did happen spontaneously I always encouraged it. There is/was never any pressure for them to "come", but when it happens it is always pleasant for both of us. It is most assuredly not "pee". Some ladies were very generous with the amount that would be discharged and some were not large at all, so I think is depends on many factors as to how much is present in any encounter. My previous Asian girlfriend would squirt literally quarts in a single extended sex session. We had to prepare carefully before hand to ensure that there was not a huge mess and that was part of the thrill too!
103
@20 The answer is it that it varies.

I squirt. It releases like a dribble, it's white to clear-ish, very much like the consistency of semen, and is sweet smelling and tasting. It's really friggin' obvious when it happens, not only because of the fluid release, but because the orgasm that accompanies it is orders of magnitude more intense than the routine variety.

Not true for me, but I definitely know of women who do flood the place.

As for porn, I've seen women who look like they have hoses of some sort, who "squirt" with no emotion whatsoever, and, yeah, I suspect that's bullshit. But I've also seen porn where a woman's trembling violently and cannot stand because she's coming so hard as she's squirting. Yep, honey, that's the one!!

And, ugh, I cannot believe that this message board still has people who insist it doesn't exist.
104
@blackrose: thanks for clearing that up.

A lot of those estimates are kind of overshoots. Like for example, if I have to work at 4, I leave home at 3:15. But I say "3" because it's more straighforward and I generally need to get things together before I work (like pack up my work clothes) so I stop the other thing I'm doing a bit after 3. Then I generally spend about 30 mins actually on busses/streetcars/subway (including wait times) but I also can't arrive right on the dot at 4, I get to work 15 minutes early so I can change etc. Saying 1 hr transit is easier than adding 15 minute chunks to "work" and "getting ready".

As for washing/grooming... eh, what can I say. I like long showers and I like to look a certain way. And again, that's all rounded up. I was probably wrong about cooking at eating. But... I do love to eat. 2 hours on laundry as in 5 minutes to walk to the laundromat, 30 minutes washer, about an hour in the dryer and then some time for folding and walking back home. I don't know if you have a magic machine that does that all in ten minutes but that's rad. I bring a book.

I can't believe I just wrote that much about the mundane details of my life on the internet. Now I know what twitter must feel like.
105
@48 Monogamish describes something different then polyamorous, does it not? I thought the former was allowing some negotiations for outside sex on occasion, i.e. the focus is on sexual variety and experience. I thought the philosophy here was that the romantic link and commitment remains within the primary couple, with some agreed-upon outside sex not seen as inherently threatening to that bond.

Polyamory, to my mind, is a deeper and wider pursuit for additional *relationships* where there's mutual love and support among the people "networked" into them, whether a married couple with a third, two couples, etc. I thought the philosophy here was that the romantic link and commitment of the primary couple is extended to welcome an additional person or persons into that bond on equal emotional ground.

Perhaps it would be less irksome if they're not conflated?
106
I agree that monogamish-ness is vastly different in theory and practice from polyamory (I think # 105 put it well), but I also agree with #100 that if one is monogamish "revealing the real deal is more info than is really appropriate for most."
I don't see that as a problem. Why must everybody and his uncle know the intimate details of your negotiated sex life? Does the entire PTA need to know that you and your spouse have an agreement that allows for some novelty or variety? How about your dentist?

Unless you need to inform someone because you want to include him/her in your sexual activities, it seems as relevant as the fact that you like wearing nipple clamps in terms of the need for the general public to have access to the information. I know that there will be those who argue that strict monogamy is much rarer than is recognized and that if people were more open about their monogamish relationships, and they were more visible, people would feel better, blah blah blah.

But I really don't care about my neighbors' sex lives and I don't think they need to know the details of mine. I don't consider it being closeted; I consider it having some measure of a *private* life.

Of course, if I were in a long-term, ongoing poly relationship, particularly if we all cohabited, I'd feel differently; I'd want the public acknowledgment and acceptance of an important relationship. But that's not what monogamishly is.
107
Oh yeah: I squirt. Not every time. Sometimes I puddle, sometimes I spurt, sometimes I shoot.
Lots of factors come into play, including my level of arousal and the angle and depth of penetration (I need penetration to squirt) of a penis or fist.

It's not pee.

It can make a mess--sometimes I really soak a mattress--sexy when it happens, but not so much when you want to sleep later.

But it doesn't feel like a clitoral orgasm at all, for me. It's a totally separate phenomenon and sensation. It is dependent on internal stimulation and feels like I am dissolving--I frequently cry when I squirt.
Weird, but I like it. And so have the partners who have experienced it with me.
108
I've been rolling mydriasis's (#74) schedule around in my head. I agree that she doesn't have much time for outside action but at the same time I'm wondering whether 1 to 3 times a week is sufficient for her man. If they are candidates for a less than exclusive relationship then it seems that he might be the one who needs a little on the side while she's just dandy with the arrangement as it is. I suspect that that takes a lot of working through, however.

When I was seeing 3 or 4 women at a time it was mainly because they were busy as tenure track professors, or lawyers, or with their own businesses, or working the night shift. Each one had a lot of demands on their time so I was lucky to see any one of them once or twice a week. Consequently, since I do like lots and lots of good sex, spending a little time with each one work well for me (and I'm not such a hypocrite that I can't share as well). Otherwise we each had our own lives.

The trouble is, I have found that even when people say they can share, they discover that they don't necessarily mean it. Consequently, when my current GF, who does have lots of time for me, told me that I needed to "get rid of those other girls," I did. That's not to say that I don't miss them, and if I get kicked out I may go back to the polyamorous system, but GGG monogamous when you're getting a lot is pretty good too.
109
95, I just picked the first four jobs that popped into my mind, that would likely require the person to do things I don't believe are "ok", leading to a long term conflict between me and the job. I'm still cool with telemarketer, car salesman, and lawyer, though. Undecided on politicians.
110
Folks, I don't say this to rain on the parade of joy over litres and quarts of ejaculate flowing everywhere--by all means, keep enjoying yourself and your happy memories. However, for the sake of realism, please keep in mind that it takes about 1/2 cup of pee from a toddler's bladder during the night to "soak a mattress" pretty effectively. What may look like a half-gallon of vomit, completely covering the bathroom floor in a projectile stream, is literally more like a cup or two. If you don't believe me, go throw 1 cup of water on your kitchen floor and see how big a mess you can make. Or have your squirting female drink fluids all day, hold it as long as she can, and then pee in a cup.

I have a hard time believing that women have vast reservoirs of fluid even larger than their bladders, just hanging around up there for the right stimulation. I suspect it's more about the partner's self-congratulation on achieving this effect, you know. Occam and all.