Savage Love

Pretty Little Hippie

Comments

207
@138, I know a DARE, and he is all too real. @119 and @131: very perceptive. And yes, he flirts with dogs. He interacts with gay guys and dogs similarly, actually. Don't know exactly what that means - except that he needs to always have physical contact with some being. It's like he's permanently on X, but don't think he takes it all that often. I dunno, tho. Maybe. He's always surrounded by a number of admirers, but the kind-hearted ones always move on once they've been impacted by the chaos he co-creates with the others in his main circle. His affection, which goes way above and beyond flirting and is often pure sexual come-on - to everyone - would get men less physically attractive, smart, and charming a sexual harassment charge in a minute.

The DARE I know would probably write here because he wasn't ready for therapy when he tried it, and it didn't work. But he does have a bit of insight. Let's hope he's ready to hear the feedback we're all giving him and try again because he could use the gifts he was given for more good in the world instead of tipping the balance on the side of the chaos by his actions.

The DARE I know was also not ever really sober from what I could tell back when I was still around. And he must have the most addictive personality in the world since it seems he couldn't get enough of alcohol, weed, sex, touching, nicotine, sun, adventure, attention, also used other chemical drugs from time to time. His loviness covers the jealousy and rage (narcissistic?) he frequently feels, and yeah, truthfully, some misogynistic stuff comes out of his mouth sometimes. Soooo....the DARE I know (don't know if this applies to you, DARE, but ask yourself) - He's GOTTTA get some clean time from all of his fixes before he can truly feel who he is gender or sexual-identity wise, what his pain is about, or what he needs.

208
@201 FTW!!!

@199 DARE, in this case I refer to my buddy Mr. Clemmons:

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt".

Peace.
209
@207: "His loviness covers the jealousy and rage (narcissistic?) he frequently feels, and yeah, truthfully, some misogynistic stuff comes out of his mouth sometimes"

I find that hilarious about DARE. He's all about LURVVVEEEE and must touch everyone and be adored, knowing no boundaries when it comes to pursuing already-committed partners (similarly when *he's* in a relationship, I'm sure) but he wants his "female" submissive and locked down.

That's not hippie free-love behavior. It's those traditionalist/regressives that destroyed the idea of free-love, because they understood it as "free" as in all they could take, but they do not grant their partners actual "freedom".
210
I find 'you are an idiot' or 'you are schizophrenic' comments very telling. People always seem to want to reduce the world into labels. It's a way of exerting control, perhaps, over a world they fear.

Say what you want about me, but I NEVER label people. I find that to be a reductive, simplistic and aggressive act.

The world runs rife with contradiction and conflict. I am happy to admit I am a conflicted individual. I manipulate people, yes. I catalyze chaos, yes. But many people who know me well, thank 'god', see that at my heart I really do love life and want everyone in the world to be at peace.

Now, continue the attacks on me. I think nothing I could say now would defend me from people who enjoy judging others rather than trying to relate to my frustrations and confusions in some way. Talk about me, go ahead. Maybe you should focus on yourselves more.
211
It's not me! It's them!
It's not me! It's them!
212
Did anyone else read @210 and imagine it being spoken in a nasal British upper class accent?

Peace.
213
@209

"knowing no boundaries when it comes to pursuing already-committed partners (similarly when *he's* in a relationship, I'm sure) but he wants his "female" submissive and locked down."

"they understood it as "free" as in all they could take, but they do not grant their partners actual "freedom".

Ah, you've met him then! From what I've seen, all I can say is "yep". I attended parties where only he or his ex was there. He was totally off his rocker jealous about what he thought she was doing...which was totally just friendly/sisterly interaction with her guy friends and co-workers (she's more flirty in her on-line personas but rather shy in person), while meanwhile he was getting/giving what most people in the world would consider sensual attention (dry humping on dance floor, long deep massages) from half a dozen people. Sometimes it appears he's "giving affection" to others as a form of punishment for the "beloved" who dares having even a polite conversation with another man.
214
D.A.R.E., I feel sorry for you. You are never at fault, are you? Oh, no. Never! Beyond reproach, aren't you?

Well, since you haven't ever really had to work for your livelihood (nice set of contradictory details about all of that, btw), you obviously have had time to sit around and polish up (and/or, cut and paste) your most profound intellectualism.

You say so much, yet you never say anything that could qualify as the least bit realistic.

You're probably one of those people living off of an inheritence that someone else other than you accrued, but you now sponge off of.

You have very, very little actual insight into the condition of other people. This is most unappealing. Your self-absorption is also hilarious. Just wait about ten years when you start losing your looks and your network of enablers, one by one, begin to bag out on you. What to do now? Who now to bamboozle?

If you're so damn smart, D.A.R.E., then why the need to consult Dan Savage for advice?

Because you're more messed up than even You can even begin to take in. All of that time spent trying to deflect from the real issue at hand: your inability to accept yourself for who you really are. I wouldn't quite put all of the blame for that on you, though. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I can only imagine how well you were raised to make you become so misguided.

I guess that I feel for you, because, unlike you, I know enough to subscribe to the inevitable pull of honesty. You are devoid of that.

At the end of the day, the only one who is impressed by your insanity is your own self. It's both incredibly sad and yet hysterical to see someone claiming to be so bright, yet actually, in the light of day, your dull and sad like a funeral dirge.

God help anyone married and/or dating you. If you ever have kids, let them be raised away from you with their mother. You are toxic.

Actually, I believe you do know how fucked-up you are. You just don't actually have the internal fortitude and bravery to be honest.

They say that treating a narcissist is almost next to impossible.

By reading your attempts to justify being (basically) dishonest and disrespectful to anyone and everyone else, your undoing will come and it will all be on you.

Enjoy the attention while anyone still cares, D.A.R.E..

I never used to think someone could be so verbose, yet actually, so fucking boring.

I stand corrected with the likes of you.

Enjoy your ongoing infatuation with your own inner vortex of insanity.
215
@210: "Say what you want about me, but I NEVER label people. I find that to be a reductive, simplistic and aggressive act."

You'd have to care about people beyond how they adore you, or at least understand how people operate.

"I manipulate people, yes. I catalyze chaos, yes."

Then why did you play the naif with your original letter, other than to appear on Savage Love?

You're completely comfortable/shameless about your exploitation of people because you've got a stable of codependent/lonely people to suck dry of attention.

Either it's a problem you sincerely want to address, or you've been masturbating with a keyboard and a mirror this whole time.
216
@214: In a few years, when the inheritance money runs out, he'll be "that guy", the 40 year old with rapidly fading looks at the drum circle that nobody wants to touch, let alone be touched by.
217
@216 FTW!
218
hey,pretty boy! i'm waitin' for an answer. stop jerkin' yer johnson electronically for a minute and arr ess vee pee.
219
@ 206 Sincerity is never dull. Sappy, pseudo-hippies pretending to be sincere? Yeah: That is dull.

Some people try too hard. For whatever reasons. I always found just having the guts to be honest with yourself and other people has its own rewards in being actually interesting, or compelling.

Ego, a need to dominate, a need of attention, me! me! me! me! look at me! look at me!

Sincerity itself is rarely ever uninteresting. It's the poseurs who want you to believe that they care that are the biggest bores of all.

Sooner or later, people sniff out the truth.

Why not just cut to the chase and reveal the source of that sour stench and cop to it?

Honesty and carrying yourself with that goes further than even a seasoned liar would ever live long enough to realize.

I wouldn't ever want to be in D.A.R.E.'s shoes. Too much drama, unrest and a fragile hold on mental stability.

For some people, humility is the enemy; the kryptonite to their over-hyped superiority claims.

Sincerity is cool. Being a delusional douche is not.
220
"I find 'you are an idiot' or 'you are schizophrenic' comments very telling. People always seem to want to reduce the world into labels. It's a way of exerting control, perhaps, over a world they fear."

They ARE Telling, for they are accurate!

Re-read your own shit, outofwater. For someone who has the gloss of intelligence and bearing, you sure are a dumb fuck.

The rest of it applies to you, too: the controlling nature, the fear of losing it..

You've long since lost it, D.A.R.E..

Therapy is all that you have left to even begin to salvage the disaster that is you.

221
"Either it's a problem you sincerely want to address, or you've been masturbating with a keyboard and a mirror this whole time. "

Either, or. Only two choices. Thus is commanded by the supreme ultimate. Bow now.
222
219

"Sincerity is never dull. Sappy, pseudo-hippies pretending to be sincere? Yeah: That is dull.

Some people try too hard."

that's somewhat what I mean, people who are nice and sincere don't have to label themselves in lieu of possessing a personality and cling onto subgenres that define them well into their thirties

220

it's funny how he near-audbly pouts when people see him for a lizard in human skin, reminds me of They Live
223
"In a few years, when the inheritance money runs out, he'll be "that guy", the 40 year old with rapidly fading looks at the drum circle that nobody wants to touch, let alone be touched by. "

The psychic powers are strong in this one.
224
at least we're not concerned about catching syphilis from an argument on the internet
225
"people who are nice and sincere don't have to label themselves in lieu of possessing a personality and cling onto subgenres that define them well into their thirties"

written by: "i'm a hippie!" no, you're a mid-thirties manchild"

Okay so your label of me is okay to use, but my label of myself isn't.

Maybe labels are the source of confusion and miscommunication,

I suggest E-Prime, or David Bohm's 'Rheomode'. Languages based on verbs, the former entirely sans copula.
226
@225: Again with the pseudointellectual garbage in lieu of actual discussion.

Humans group and label for the purposes of abstraction, not as an absolutist understanding of the world.

Is there such thing as an "objective" manchild? Of course not.

Are you acting embarrassingly childish for someone in their thirties? Of course!

Do you lack the ability to process shame for your behaviors the way others might? Yes!

Are you going to change your behavior after you received critical advice from Dan? Not at all, from your replies.

Instead of rattling off books you haven't read that aren't analogous to any points in the discussion, try actually reading what people post.

I know it's hard to pay attention to anything outside your bubble, perhaps at some point your crushing sense of loneliness and self-loathing won't be temporarily relieved by ego-stroking, you'll want to keep someone around.

You know, keep them from running for the hills when they see who you actually are versus the Sensitive New Age Guy front.
227
I've really enjoyed undead ayn rand's articulate insights. The encounters I've had with remorseless individuals who completely lack insight (and insight's child: empathy), have left me so traumatized that I have a keen eye and ear for detecting such individuals. Several different diseases can produce the characteristics that we see here: narcissistic personality disorder, borderline pd (probably not so much the case here, although borderlines really like to stir up shit), the prodromal phase of schizophrenia (which can last for years), and the manic phase of bipolar disorder and schizoaffective disorder. Also, of course, autism, but autistic people don't LOOK for trouble or even attention.

I'm sorry DARE, it's not all about how we're jealous or just don't get you, some of it is about how you present yourself. Some cognitive behavioral therapy might be a good first step, since it's not terribly threatening, and personally I can see your thinking process is pretty muddled. Won't it be a relief to not have to spend so much mental energy on propping up your ego? A therapist could help you get some relief like that.
228
I am really enjoying this. It is becoming hilarious.

Two points.
Let's go back to DARE's original request for Dan to explain, "I feel very frustrated, Dan, because I don’t feel confused at all, but I feel like I confuse people.”

May I point out that a person need not feel confused in order to confuse others. I think DARE's complaint has been answered sufficiently. DARE admits he causes chaos; he already knows he does confuse people. Dan and many commentators have told DARE that if this bothers him, he should take cues from others and change his behavior. Hear that, DARE?

Second point.
DARE strikes me as a frustrated artist/intellectual (thus, the irregular job history). Bringing in philosophical points at every opportunity is, sorry to say, adolescent. Mature people don't have time to follow the twists and turns of other people's philosophical thoughts when these change so rapidly. Not to say we aren't interested in these issues, just that adults' style is different. DARE, if you really care about these issues (and not just about showing people how smart/intellectual you are), channel these observations into culturally standardized art forms (from performance poetry and epigrams to operas and philosophical treatises). Then maybe you'll stop wasting them on people who aren't interested, and you'll stop feeling hurt when you don't get the response you want. Or maybe you're not doing that, because you doubt your own ability, and then you're complaining that people don't appreciate you. Face your own abilities or lack thereof, DARE.
229
@227: To be honest, most of this has been a one-sided rant on my part. I'd feel more I was offering more insight if DARE had actually offered any substance other than his "y'all quit hatin" spiel in various forms with literary/philosophical/religious namechecks-of-grandeur attached. Then again, I don't really get into arguments with any other Savage Love letter writers either, because they read what Dan has to say.

"Several different diseases can produce the characteristics that we see here: narcissistic personality disorder, borderline pd (probably not so much the case here, although borderlines really like to stir up shit), the prodromal phase of schizophrenia (which can last for years), and the manic phase of bipolar disorder and schizoaffective disorder."

Right! I dated a BPD for several years, and I certainly wouldn't count it out in this case, they're very good at creating a fantasy world around them as the LW has. In my case, they wrote a "play" and a "novel" about our love life and the other people involved, it was very reminiscent of DARE's garbage.

That particular BPD was definitely attractive, and wrote Mary-Sue-ish stories about how everyone wanted them, and how they were just torn up with emotion over everything, but all the other characters were shallow, depthless. Every character existed to serve and adore the Mary Sue. Thankfully, that person is now medicated and went through YEARRRRSSSS of CBT, but I still refuse to ever be around them.

Perhaps DARE can get over the tortured warrior-poet stage at some point, but I suppose if he doesn't care, why the fuck should anyone else?

I'm just glad that I don't have any of them in my life these days.
230
"Bringing in philosophical points at every opportunity is, sorry to say, adolescent. Mature people don't have time to follow the twists and turns of other people's philosophical thoughts when these change so rapidly. Not to say we aren't interested in these issues, just that adults' style is different"

I don't mind being prodded to check out something interesting and directly related to any concepts of a conversation, but don't be a namedropper, don't toss in tangentially related concepts, and don't expect that people will do anything but roll their eyes when you try to "win" an argument by claiming that "because of quantum relativism and parallel universes, anything is possible."
231
Thank you, UAR, and I enjoy your thoughtful posts, but given your history, why oh why are you posting under the moniker of an arguably sociopathic and definitely borderline personality disordered creepy person? ;)
232
Dark sense of humor, I suppose. I had just finished watching the Passion of Ayn Rand (good drama!) and i'm a sucker for silly screen names.
233
For fucking sakes, all of you. Why can't DARE just be himself? So he wrote a letter to Dan about himself and Dan published it. THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE NATION WIDE DO THIS EVERY WEEK. He likes to ponder the way his brain works and the nature of life/gender/flirtation. He feels attracted to committed women and/or homophobic men who are THINKING BEINGS who have every right to turn him down if they want to. So what? What crawled up all of your asses and died this week? All of you who are attempting to diagnose narcissistic personality disorder or even narcissistic traits (let alone schizophrenia or sociopathy or serial killing, what the fuck!) from this letter and these responses are so fucking full of it. Anyone among you who is even trained in psychological diagnosis, speak up... oh wait, if you were, you'd know better. Nothing against EricaP (I like the way she thinks about things) but she goes on and on about her own life on this board almost every week and hardly anyone but Hunter78 and the Professor, who everyone knows are trolls, ever get in her face. What's the fucking difference? There isn't one. Savage Love would be so much better without all of this smug pomposity. You all are not gods. You're just Seattleites. Get over yourselves and stop contributing to the kind of bullying that pushes sensitive people like DARE to suicide. The point of life is not to make sure to follow some pre-destined bullshit social contract and make sure everyone else is comfortable. This site is supposed to be a place where all sexual preferences and gender identifications can unite, not just the "in" ones. This is the first week I couldn't even finish the whole thread (which I normally look forward to) because I am so disgusted to see what humanity has become, personified in these hateful diatribes.

Mindwinds
234
@222 "a lizard in human skin, reminds me of They Live"

LOL

@DARE/outofwater - having fun?
235
@233: It's amateur time, really. We see unhealthy patterns in this particular LW.

"What's the fucking difference?"

She's not a flaming and unsympathetic wreck? Even if she shares her personal life, it's related to the topic at hand.

"Get over yourselves and stop contributing to the kind of bullying that pushes sensitive people like DARE to suicide."

He IS a nasty, snide bully who feels other people are his inferiors. Other LWs don't get this treatment, because they're not (for the most part) attention-seeking manchildren and womanchildes.

"This site is supposed to be a place where all sexual preferences and gender identifications can unite, not just the "in" ones."

Cruel assholes may always be in season, but that doesn't mean we have to pander to them.
236
It's funny how people complain that Seattle is passive-aggressive, but flip their shit whenever anyone says that they don't like someone else directly and exains why.
237
@233
We're not okay with people like DARE just being themselves because their actions are hurting people to the extent of feeding addictions and dependencies, triggering/exacerbating mental health problems, causing trouble in existing relationships, and preventing potentially healthy relationships. And... they can't seem to see it...they don't know why others are so hurt...they are thoroughly confused (or so they say) as to why people walk away from them...

...so we're here to explain why

I've known affectionate and/or extroverted bisexual/bi-curious people - single, and in committed relationships - who don't hurt others like this. I know people who like to have a lot of casual sex, who are honest with their partners about what they're looking for, and they don't hurt people like this. I know people who confidently queer gender and don't hurt people like this.

238
@235: "Even if she shares her personal life, it's related to the topic at hand."

Dan made DARE's story the topic at hand. You're just giving anything from your mouth a pass.

Science gives circumstances for disproof. Even religions -- with their commandments against idolatry and circular koans -- refer to their own deadness. It's right there in your own comments: you refuse to consider you're wrong. Dude, you're out of control. That makes you the addict, not anyone else.
239
238

Mike, if you're going to try to argue with anyone and defend DARE, make some fucking sense. Nobody can respond to you because you're ungrounded.
240
@undead ayn rand: If you don't think some of the things you've said lump you right in with the "cruel assholes" you supposedly hate, you are way more out of touch than I thought. Most folks here bizarrely think it's fine to rip to shreds any person they decide through their own twisted logic is not okay in some way. Hopefully your own turn to be destroyed doesn't come any time soon, eh? Hopefully karma's not a bitch?

I'm not talking about disagreeing with someone, as you seem to be implying... I'm talking about accusing someone you've never even met and know hardly anything about, based on an anonymous, edited letter to a sex advice columnist, of criminal afflictions such as sociopathy and murderousness. I'm talking about throwing around personality disorders (serious illnesses that are not jokes and not pseudo-intellectual cannon fodder, as they cause the world a great deal of pain) like they are candy, like you are some kind of expert. Are you? If so, I'll stand down. I doubt you know anything more about psychology than what you need to know to name drop and look cool to all your friends.

By the way, who appointed you judge of what is "flaming" and "unsympathetic"? Would you care to define these subjective bounds? Or does it just depend on how vicious and detached from your fellow humans you're feeling today? And here you are turning around and saying you're doing this because DARE is "hurting people." First of all, anyone who has been "hurt" by DARE can go ahead and step up now. This letter was about himself, his thoughts. We all have a right to our thoughts and our viewpoint on things. Stating this fact does not make me an amateur. I doubt you have read every word Dan Savage has written, whereas I have made a point to do so, because I actually want to learn how to treat people better in relationships, not worse. I doubt you even read all his columns, as I can't even remember seeing you comment here before this... What is your definition of amateur? Someone who stands up for the flavor of the week who's being cruelly lambasted? Someone who doesn't kiss your smug ass?

And if Seattleites aren't passive-aggressive as a general rule, why did a previous commenter put those words in my mouth, when I never typed them? Methinks the lady doth protest too much. If any of you have an actual logical defense for your behavior here aside from detachment and selfish amusement, I invite you to put me in my place. Until then, fuck off.
241
Hell, I'm having a hard time with reconciling "everything I want in a partner" with "lazy and rude." What kind of fool wants a rude, lazy, stupid twit for a partner?
242
UAR@235: "Even if she shares her personal life, it's related to the topic at hand."

Me@238: "Dan made DARE's story the topic at hand. You're just giving anything from your mouth a pass."

anonymous poster@239: "Mike, if you're going to try to argue with anyone and defend DARE, make some fucking sense. Nobody can respond to you because you're ungrounded."

I'm sorry, who am I talking to? You are an anonymous poster without a story of your own. By definition, you cannot be respected. Your complaints you can't understand anything have no meaning.
243
@240,

The difference between you and DARE is that the criticisms actually reached you, and you empathized with how you thought DARE should respond. I haven't read anything from DARE that comes close to showing your degree of empathy. In fact, in my opinion, DARE has a whiff of predator about him; someone that doesn't hesitate to gain at someone else's expense. He argues that sex was the remedy for his attached partners when anyone with a normal sense of boundaries might use a hug and sympathetic ears. Again, that is MY opinion.

Peace.
244
DARE. Has. No. Victims. There are just some people who don't like him.

Do y'all know who else had no victims, but just some people who didn't like her? Anne Frank. There Anne Frank was, writing down, "Me! Me! Me!" trying to seduce the girl who shared her bed. From a culture of proud outsiders. Flaming. Unsympathetic. Sssociopaththth...

I have an idea. How about we start saving our disgust for at least those with actual victims.
245
I am not proud of having slept with 'taken' women, but trust me, their husbands/boyfriends were no angels. It takes two to tango and to blame me as the 'predator' and only culpable agent in the scenario seems mysandronistic.
246
Goddamn. I find all these 'DARE IS' this, 'DARE IS' that comments so simplistic. What science is the DSM IV based on anyways? Certainly not double blind, placebo controlled studies.

You people aren't even qualified in the pseudoscience you spew, and I'm the name dropper?
247
I don't doubt the husbands of the women he slept with are victims. But DARE broke no vow, and betrayed no trust. They were his partners' victims.
248
#201

"He's a theater major.

Cased closed. "

Probably the only accusation or label slung at me on here that I will cop to. Though I never graduated.
249
I like the way pointing out all the people making armchair diagnoses kind of distracts us from the many other people who just think he's a dick.
250
@248: Congratulations on being a horny theatre major.
251
"What science is the DSM IV based on anyways? Certainly not double blind, placebo controlled studies."

You're right about that! However psychologists and clinicians needed diagnostic tools and a language in order to talk about these disorders. Think of the DSM-IV as math: almost entirely made up, but a useful language for describing many scientific principles. Personally, I like the ICD-10 better as it's based more on organic etiologies and neuroscience.

"You people aren't even qualified in the pseudoscience you spew, and I'm the name dropper?"

Again, good point. We should have stuck with what you're doing wrong in terms of how you relate to people (you've described well a lot of things you do) and how what you SAY leaves a certain impression.

But... I'm sorry...I CAN drop a few names here I think. I wrote my dissertation on some of the underlying similarities in the mental illnesses that I mentioned. All of the data that I collected was language based-you really can learn a lot about a person by what they say. And I'm on something like my third career (yes I'm old). I spent years doing neuroscience, and then worked as a consultant in the government (explaining behavioral science to lawyers mostly).

Now, on a personal level, not a professional level, I don't like big egoes. I don't like when people are stubborn or fake or selfish. You kind of raised my hackles and those of others by what you're saying and how you are not Listening, even to the sloggers who started out sounding reasonable. Anyway, one doesn't need credentials to have good insight, as many sloggers here have shown.

I am sorry I/we hurt your feelings. Please just tell me you learned something from this painful exercise.
252
"bedding lovelies?"
gross
253
"bedding lovelies?"
gross
254
240

I hope DARE fucks your partner next.
255
I just can't get past DARE's attitude of "Sure, I stir shit up, but I just can't fathom why people are sll stirred up after I get done with them." Dude, I do not believe you are genuinely that obtuse. You fuck with people because you get something out of fucking with people, but to then stand there afterwards blinking innocently and be all sad that they feel fucked with just comes across as disingenuous.
256
Sandiai@227: "The encounters I've had with remorseless individuals who completely lack insight (and insight's child: empathy), have left me so traumatized that I have a keen eye and ear for detecting such individuals. Several different diseases can produce the characteristics that we see here: narcissistic personality disorder, borderline pd (probably not so much the case here, although borderlines really like to stir up shit), the prodromal phase of schizophrenia (which can last for years), and the manic phase of bipolar disorder and schizoaffective disorder."

Sandiai@251: "Now, on a personal level, not a professional level, I don't like big egoes. I don't like when people are stubborn or fake or selfish. You kind of raised my hackles and those of others by what you're saying and how you are not Listening, even to the sloggers who started out sounding reasonable."

As the studied-commenter, what do you have to say about the the commenters who lost their shit? Where is your keen eye for their stubbornness and fakeness and selfishness? Why does their remorselessness not demand your intervention, but DARE's does?

Are you giving them a pass because you're never subject to receiving that kind of hate and disgust? How is that discretion to apply a principle and judge people any less selfish and remorseless than DARE?

"Me! Me! Me!" and big egos everywhere, but we're only punishing the least-able to defend themselves to kid ourselves our remorselessness is the remorselessness of decent people? That's crap. DARE can just as well claim to be intervening on the remorselessness of the people who by your account ("even to the sloggers who started out sounding reasonable") lost their shit here. But he hasn't been heinous enough to surf on the disgust of a pack-mentality like you've done. I'd sincerely like to hear how it doesn't suck to be you.
257
DARE@245,

And therein lies the difference between us. I would have said misogynistic in this case, NOT misandristic. But that would make you a tool for revenge.

Peace.
258
@254: So do I, asshole... Being a non-monogamous type who invites interesting people such as DARE to join in and share my relationships. I'd certainly prefer cuckolding or polyamory or whatever you want to call it with DARE than to have to spend more time than what it takes to smoke a cigarette listening to some self-aggrandized "victim" who is not even registered on this site.

Mindwinds
259
258

note that the LW isn't poly, he only fucks committed partners just because you get off on being lied to and deceived by some predator moving in on your love, doesn't mean that others shouldn't loathe someone who forces that upon them

DARE being unsympathetic makes sense, his issues are many

how can you be so uncaring about others to "reserve judgment" on someone who does this without ever wanting to change his behavior patterns?

you talk about our opinion versus Dan's but CONVENIENTLY IGNORE when Dan says "at some point, you're going to have to admit—at least to yourself—that your "I love everybody" routine is a disguise, and you get off on creating confusion, and you're a narcissist (perhaps with cause) with a sadistic streak"

256

mike, the LW's behavior is very destructive and a sign of greater issues that he is willing to admit but has NEVER been willing to address, in the initial letter and onward in this thread. why encourage him in this rotten behavior?
260
also

256

"what do you have to say about the the commenters who lost their shit? Where is your keen eye for their stubbornness and fakeness and selfishness?"

it's a sign of vague mental unwellness want to be in the center of a shitstorm of drama and false fronts

it is not unhealthy to want those people to stop being manchildren and grow the fuck up and stop hurting others

it is pure projection that you see our anger at rotten individuals as "selfish" and "fake", especially as the LW admitted in this thread to being willfully manipulative for entertainment

stubbornness i'll cop to, because these sick people are not used to people standing up to their lies and machinations
261
I'm pretty sure DARE would make me want to claw my eyes out. He sounds like the incredibly annoying flirt that thinks he's the shit because people keep smiling but they really just want him to leave and fall down a hole somewhere.
262
I also have been professionally schooled in using and have used the DSM criteria in my professional work, but I also think they are just categories based on what we're learning about gene/brain/environment/culture/family interactions. In addition, I come from a family, who, on any given day, displays unique combos of Cluster B and C traits that defy easy diagnosis.

Like the DARE I know (and I'm trying not to project too much onto outofwater who is likely not the same person but they do share so many behaviors), most of them will admit these traits interfere with their ability to have fulfilling lives. Some are well aware that they push buttons to get a rise out of others or that what they do in a rage hurts others. Some justify hurting others. Others think they're acting purely rationally because they think other people should do what they want and be who they want them to be all the time. You can see how easily what could be seen as just quirky personality traits shade into abusive behavior.

When a person has a number of positive quirky traits, as DARE and those like him clearly do, they are fun and interesting to be around. But soon enough, if they're not "owning" the drama-causing behaviors, as Dan advises, they push people away who want to have real two-way relationships, not just be on the line for whatever shots person in question is calling in his/her particular mood - and not dependable when you need whatever you need from your friend, lover, family member, etc. It's not being a victim to set boundaries and take care of yourself when your loved one can't or isn't ready to hear how their behavior is hurtful.

Here's an example of someone who has dramatic personality traits, but who "owns" similar sexual needs to outofwater; she owns her desire to be sexual - and the "in-control" one - with a number of people as well as her discomfort with commitment. She finds partners through online sites. Yes, sometimes this does include married men. but it's married me who are advertising; she doesn't start humming "Let's Get It On" the moment a committed man in her social circle hints at discord in his relationship. She can be a flirt, but unlike both outofwater and the DARE I know, she doesn't lead anyone on she has no intention of bedding, she doesn't say she wants monogamy while behaving otherwise, she is not seducing her way through her friends and co-workers, and she's had the same group of good friends for many years because she hasn't used sex and snaring others mates to compete with them.

263
@idea struck --- Guess you still haven't internalized the "thinking beings" part of the equation which I addressed in my first comment on this thread. You act as if "your love" or my love or whomever's love, would instantly melt into a puddle of self-destructive, remorseful sex juice upon the eye-batting of some quasi-fem gender queer guy, who's probably a college-age type and a dime a dozen. Quit whining. If someone is old enough to be in a "serious 2-way relationship," as you say, they're old enough to turn on their player-dar and use it. If not, don't date. What's really unattractive is not people who like to flirt and mess around and maybe act a little self-centered for a few years as they discover the world around them. What's really unattractive is adult "manchildren" who want to stomp their feet in the corner and scream, "That's not fair!!!" while everyone else is having a good time. You don't even know what the definition of an attack is, apparently. This is a disagreement, not an attack. If you prefer to rid your world of flirty players and keep your "love" in a safe little bubble, start a commune somewhere. Find the life you want to live instead of expecting other people to hand it to you. The only other motivation I can think of is maybe you're jealous of DARE because you wish you had the cajones to live as freely and cerebrally as he does? Do share. If not for jealousy or childish wish fulfillment, what other reason are you acting like this? I'll sit back and prepare to be amazed, you genius you. ;)
264
@263: "who's probably a college-age type and a dime a dozen. Quit whining. If someone is old enough to be in a "serious 2-way relationship," as you say, they're old enough to turn on their player-dar and use it. If not, don't date. What's really unattractive is not people who like to flirt and mess around and maybe act a little self-centered for a few years as they discover the world around them."

Wrong, he's mid-thirties and far too old to be "finding himself" and this clueless.

"What's really unattractive is adult "manchildren" who want to stomp their feet in the corner and scream, "That's not fair!!!" while everyone else is having a good time"

But people aren't having a good time. He has "enemies" everywhere, from his words.

"you had the cajones to live as freely and cerebrally as he does"

He's a himbo hurricane of drama. Not everybody wants to be that dumb and out of control.
265
Oh, I see from your blog that you're diagnosed with BPD. No wonder you have so much attraction to a fellow sufferer and such disdain for anyone who speaks out against the more ill-effects that such a condition can have on others.
266
I don't know whether this thread makes up for my not having home internet since the hurricane (13 days and counting now!) or whether it makes me want to rend my garments from frustration at not having been able to compose a proper comment at home instead of at the library with an evangelizer having a telephone conversation right in my ear.

I admit to having enjoyed people like Mr DARE, but it might have taken me a week or even a month to decide whether or not I liked him. What a shame I've no time to say more - or think of what to say!
268
@263

By love I'm not just talking about sexual relationships, I'm talking about any human relationship where love means caring about the feelings and needs of someone besides oneself.

And, as Married in MA pointed out, there are lots of could but won't moments where I could have fun and flirt, play people, have sex with them, but I don't, because the temporary pleasure isn't worth the chaos it would create in the larger social group, with professional contacts, etc. Which doesn't mean I never party, flirt, get sensual, or have sex. These days I would in fact like less partying and flirting and more sensual sex, but I've got some other priorities at the moment...so I didn't, for example, chat up either of the men who were flirting with me at the grocery store last night ;)

There's also a difference between being an honest, straight-up player and some of the stuff we're talking about here. I've dated/slept with a couple of players with my eyes wide open, not slept with but been friends with a couple of players, or avoided some players who didn't seem worth either sex or friendship, pretty well. But most were consistent and honest. Doesn't mean there was never disappointment on one of our parts, but there was no behaving in a way to intentionally cause another person confusion or pain. I was even disappointed by a tease once but then we were able to become friends once I asked him to "treat me like a sister". He listened and heard. The people we're talking about don't respect when you try to set a boundary and keep playing with your mind.

I'm doing this because I watched a group of people get caught up in a circle which included several male and female DARES and it was so much fun for everyone at first, but it got ugly in ways that turned into chemical dependencies/poisinings in people who had been social users, eating disorders, law enforcement involvement, people going to therapy, friendships and professional relationships destroyed, back-stabbing, manipulation, paranoid game-playing and trickery, misogynist behind their backs smack-talk against the women who "would", should I go on? Does this sound like the laid-back hippie loving ideal? I decided this wasn't fun for me. Luckily, in the meantime I had friends in other circles (including a few who had left this one) who provided examples and reminded me of what friendship, love, caring and healthy sexuality (both casual and committed) was all about.

Maybe if anyone else notices these dynamics are going on in their group, they can get out before they find themselves embroiled in one of the above types of maybe fun for some, but not-at-all-about-love chaos...

269
DARE's letter and all the comments that follow are surpassed only by @101...DARE finds an equally insufferable kindred spirit! Hahahaha, this has been the best SL I've read in a long time!
270
@186 "He goes on about how suffering makes him upset. Does that not seem insane to anyone but me? If someone needs to expressly point out that they have empathy, doesn't that seem suspicious to anyone but me? I mean, if I wrote a post saying "I close my eyes. That's another interesting thing about me... During the day I close them very quickly so it doesn't disturb my vision, and then at night time I lie in bed for a long time with my eyes closed the whole time!"

Thank you, that made my day even more than DARE, outofwater, and @101 combined!! I've been laughing for the last 5 minutes...you sum up this guy's self-absorption perfectly!
271
@267: "He's clearly homo; a hetero male would not describe himself as "pretty" or "gorgeous." When I call him "sissy", I am describing a specific type of gay. The male sidekick on "Will and Grace" is a fair example. Other males find him an annoying twit when he avoids work and talks about his gorgeousness. He knows why they're homophobes, because he's homo."

You're forgetting the recent "metrosexual" movement. Very heterosexual men taking on feminine affectations for the purpose of attracting women.

He was angry towards people he claimed were homophobes, but acted just as dumb-jock macho, and doesn't have any actual interest in sex, relationships, or friendship with "lesser" gays that he can exploit and use/abuse.
272
270: It's pretty silly, people with those sort of symptoms don't "understand" neurotypicals (not referring to ASD) and try to fake standard expressions of emotion, but the more they try to sound like they're concerned the more they come off like Coneheads.
273
Sorry I verbalized that suffering upsets me. I will make sure to communicate less from now on.

I think part of the issue here is that many of the aggressive posters who label me and call me names might find themselves insecure and undersexed. I feel your pain. Really I do. Sorry that you feel unhappy with yourself. I know you don't believe me.

No matter what any of you say - know I am a flawed, but compassionate person. Dynamics always require group input. I am not solely to blame for confusion and chaos. Jealousy and envy always play a role.
274
@273: Sure, your suffering is legendary, but your sure don't seem to give a fuck about responding to Dan and any other criticism. You come off as aloof, detached, and alien because you ignore the central premise of the arguments against yourself and evade, dodge, attack the critics and look like more the asshole seeing as you're the one who claimed to have a problem. Are you that myopic? What are you going to do about the advice given?
275
anonymous poster @259 addressing me: "the LW's behavior is very destructive and a sign of greater issues that he is willing to admit but has NEVER been willing to address..."

anonymous poster @260 addressing me: "it's a sign of vague mental unwellness want to be in the center of a shitstorm of drama and false fronts..."

Do you know who else accepted the challenge of taking himself into the center of a shitstorm? Jackie Robinson. He pissed-off half the country.

All of the complaints against DARE only seem to be about how he won't do what the complainers want him to do. Supposedly DARE is dangerous because he won't take orders from anyone here. It's just been crap.
276
"Jealousy and envy always play a role."

Not everyone who encounters and ends up hating you wants to BE you.

That's where the narcissism comes in. Not everyone gets off on causing chaos, manipulations, and clumsily treating others like puppets.
277
@Mike Leung or whoever told 'ayn' his opinion wasn't valid because he hadn't commented before: I've been reading and appreciating Savage Love since 1987 or something and have never commented till this annoying chain. Does that make my opinion null?

@undead ayn rand -- Love your style:)

@outofwater/DARE - if you're so sure of yourself, why do you feel the need to keep returning ad nauseam to justify? Go out and do some charity work (hey, for the homeless, since you've been there). Focus on something other than your bellybutton. And then people might actually start to like you!

Oh yeah, also you NEVER use labels...hmm, so I collected a lot of 'homophobe', 'tomboy', whoever-else-you-are-pigeonholing (basically everyone who doesn't share your point of view); you told someone they needed to get laid because you couldn't think of a rational argument back (huge bullying label right there)... yeah, you don't throw around any convenient tattoo, do you.
278
WAIT, is DARE Dan's Colbert?

(Of course, I do drunken bloviating quite well, but since I don't drink anymore...)

Peace.
279
@DARE: I know that it's easy to say that people who criticize you are just jealous of all the sex you have and of your great self-esteem, but that isn't the case. The fact is, most people don't write gigantic essays analyzing themselves for other people to read because they're incredibly boring. I, for example, read your original letter because Dan posted it, and I even read three paragraphs of your first response because I was trying to get context for the rest of the thread, but after that, I was just too bored to continue. That's the reason why most people don't write giant posts about the inner workings of their minds. It's incredibly boring for other people. It's not that other people don't find the inner workings of their own minds fascinating; it's that most people understand that talking about maybe one small trait with one illustrative, interesting story is about as much as other people want to hear. You, for some reason, have a vastly overestimated idea of how much people are willing to read about your personality on the internet. It may be because you have an insanely large ego, or it could be because you're just not good at recognizing normal social patterns, or maybe you think you're too cool for normal social patterns, I don't know. What I do know is that posting multi-paragraph posts about yourself for strangers to read causes you to come across as extremely annoying and full of yourself. Maybe it's just that your internet posting style is annoying, but you might want to work on that.
280
#277

Yes, I do use labels, and I regret it as a reductionist, narrow minded affliction of the mind. Everyone would prove to be so much more, if given a chance. I see labels as an act of domination mankind exerts over a world that without rhetorical back flips might cause him to face confusion, fear, and darkness.

I know, and admit, that I do not know. Conflict, contradiction. They are not something I run from. Something I take refuge from in a house that I 'OWN', away from the daily struggle for survival that remains the status quo for the bulk of life as we know it.

I don't run, from the uknown, from chaos. I don't expect anyone to share my pain with me, my false order.

"You're a sartyr, not a faun" Dan says. Well I say, I am both. And neither.
281
Your article to DARE, Mr. Dan Savage, was completely awesome! I'm still sixteen, so just a kid really, and all this talk about messing with people and trying to look so cocky really cracks me up. You did a great job of telling DARE where he's at, Mr. Dan Savage.
And as for the kinky woman, you are absolutely right in suggesting that she push back the kink-convo to the third date if not more. I personally think that if you're that woman's age and you're still single, you need to change yourself, but you were very kind about it.
Keep doing what you're doing! You are my role model.
282
280

"I see labels as an act of domination mankind exerts over a world that without rhetorical back flips might cause him to face confusion, fear, and darkness."

i assume your style of masturbation is also "cinematic"
283
Is this thread actually still going? LOL.

All I can say is that if DARE were actually as sure of himself and happy with his life as he pretends, he wouldn't spend half a week trying to silence his critics with "badass" one-liners and ridiculous quantum uncertainty babble.

DARE, get your pretty little ass to a therapist already.
284
I'm neither "good at people" or "good with people". I couldn't read every comment here -- it was too overwhelming and repetitive.

The one thing I know is that this has been an extremely lopsided pile-on. For good reason, it seems to me; however, it has been lop-sided.

Why the pile-on? Why continue to engage with this guy, why not just walk away? So many people needed to say the same thing over and over to this guy. Something was triggered big time, it seems to me.

Bottom line -- I fear for DARE's mental health after all this attention dies away. Again, I am not "good at people." Perhaps all will be well, if DARE is as insulated as he is painted by some who have posted here.. But I know that when I am challenged, I am good at defending myself -- however in the dark of the night later, it is a different story.

DARE, be careful, okay?

Everyone else, maybe it is time to give this a rest. There is nothing to be gained here by continuing this lop-sided pile-on. All has been said, surely?

Dan? What say you? Part of this happened because you directed traffic here from your blog. Is this okay with you?
287
theres at least a couple of posts supporting DARE, and they are kind of rambling and nonsensical as well. i wouldnt put it past DARE, one itsy bit, to pose as different posters and write praise of himself in this thread. guy needs serious psychiatric help, but doesnt seem the type to want it of course.
288
JenjenS@281 "I'm still sixteen... [but] I personally think that if you're that woman's age [26] and you're still single, you need to change yourself, but you were very kind about it."

It's great to work everyday on becoming the person you want to be: brave, strong, productive, living in line with your ethics. But I recommend doing it for yourself, not as mechanism for getting a partner.
289
To renounce belief in one's ego, to deny one's own "reality" -- what a triumph! not merely over the senses, over appearance, but a much higher kind of triumph, a violation and cruelty against reason -- a voluptuous pleasure that reaches its height when the ascetic self-contempt and self-mockery of reason declares: "there is a realm of truth and being, but reason is excluded from it!"
But precisely because we seek knowledge, let us not be ungrateful to such resolute reversals of accustomed perspectives and valuations with which the spirit has, with apparent mischievousness and futility, raged against itself for so long: to see differently in this way for once, to want to see differently, is no small discipline and preparation for its future "objectivity" -- the latter understood not as "contemplation without interest" (which is a nonsensical absurdity), but as the ability to control one's Pro and Con and to dispose of them, so that one knows how to employ a variety of perspectives and affective interpretations in the service of knowledge.
Henceforth, my dear philosophers, let us be on guard against the dangerous old conceptual fiction that posited a "pure, will-less, painless, timeless knowing subject"; let us guard against the snares of such contradictory concepts as "pure reason," absolute spirituality," "knowledge in itself": these always demand that we should think of an eye that is completely unthinkable, an eye turned in no particular direction, in which the active and interpreting forces, through which alone seeing becomes seeing something, are supposed to be lacking; these always demand of the eye an absurdity and a nonsense. There is only a perspective seeing, only a perspective "knowing"; and the more affects we allow to speak about one thing, the more eyes, different eyes, we can use to observe one thing, the more complete will our "concept" of this thing, our "objectivity," be. But to eliminate the will altogether, to suspend each and every affect, supposing we were capable of this -- what would that mean but to castrate the intellect?

Just when I think I am losing faith in humanity, all I have to do is read some Nietzsche.
290
@289: I like that the whole paragraph sounds like you're saying something, but it comes off as a meaningless markov chain built from lesser blog entries with a random call-out to a philosopher you haven't read.
291
Here's some sincere advice for you, outofwater. Ignoring the issues brought up previously, stop pretending to know philosophy, psychology, sociology, anything you cover here. Start reading more. You have a basic germ of the ideas in each, but it sounds like you're not reading any primary sources, only repeating what someone else implied the authors and concepts cover. Take some time, and if you're as underemployed as you describe, you should have plenty of time to hit up your local library. Focus on one subject, be good at it, know it, even if you don't get a job, you'll at least have a more nuanced and interesting understanding of it for these sort of discussions with strangers and get less awkward yawns at parties. Grats to you for not subsisting on a diet of reality television, but your interest seems just enough to hypnotize a drunk, but not enough for to arouse anyone's sober interest for long. Focus on something, anything, at least towards finding long-term employment.
292
@290 the whole paragraph is a direct quote from Walter Kaufmann's translation of Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals
http://www.theperspectivesofnietzsche.co…
293
@bloomsday: the fact that undead ayn rand hasn't commented before doesn't make his points invalid per se... I merely brought that up because he (she?) is trying to so hard to flaunt his/her supposed "expertise" on relationships. If he/she is such an expert, where has he/she been all our lives, while we're all desperately struggling to be just as "evolved" as him/her? Does that make sense? Just a thought. By the way, anonymous jerk who won't even register but wants to bash me with invective... THANKS for reading my blog. Got ya, sucker!!!

@EricaP: I just want to be extra clear that even though I used your uber-presence on this board as an illustrative example for some other assbags to read, you were not one of them and I think you are pretty awesome. Really.
294
293

"By the way, anonymous jerk who won't even register but wants to bash me with invective... THANKS for reading my blog. Got ya, sucker!!!"

lifelong attention-hungerer gains attention, a victory for you!

"I just want to be extra clear that even though I used your uber-presence on this board as an illustrative example for some other assbags to read, you were not one of them and I think you are pretty awesome. Really."

an insulting comparison, because she doesn't take pleasure in the suffering of others as DARE and you may. her love life is not at the expense of others.
295
@289 AHHHHHHH!!!!!!! DO NOT TARNISH NIETZSCHE!!!!!!!!

I don't care what you use to defend yourself, but leave him out of it. With his sister, the third reich, half assed translations and poor academic efforts in america regarding his life's works; his memory really doesn't need to be trampled on any further by being brought up in such a random nonsensical matter on a thread for sex/relationship advice.

Just tell everyone, as you have dozens of times already, that you see no reason to change and that everyone here misunderstands you & etc. without turning this into an undergraduate class ethics discussion.
296
Dare, you are SO full of yourself you should have a neon "No Vacancy" sign on your forehead. Every long-winded tome you compose only serves to prove that hypothesis.

You are NOT all that, ok? You are NOT so stunningly beautiful and intelligent and self-aware and well-intentioned and actualized and humble (did I mention humble?) that you are simply teribly misunderstood by the rest of us lesser beings.

You are an insecure, attention/approval craving, manipulative, selfish little twit. Dan called it (as did I after the first paragraph of your initial letter).

This doesn't mean you are an awful person...it just means you are ONE OF US. Get over yourself. Everyone else has.
297
P.S. To clarify, I meant my remarks with all due respect and love..."One of us" is not a bad thing...we'd be happy to have you:)
299
@293/294 - thanks, both of you :-)
@296/997 - impressive flip flop
300
@298,

"Oh God, do I REALLY have to read this?"

Peace
301
Holy smokes Dan, you figured out in one letter what it took me almost 5 years after a horrible 4 year relationship to figure out.
302
DARE,

You really need to stop talking back to us, your superiors, and start doing as we've told you. Remember this: while OUR magnificent understanding of you comes from our incredible wisdom, experience, and erudition, your attempts to quote impressive sources are nothing more than jejune efforts at avoiding the great wisdom of OUR orders. In summation, you are a big fat poopyhead, and we hope you get ignored for the rest of your life, because we should not give a narcissist like you any attention.

And you know what's worst about you, DARE? You have no self-awareness. None.
303
Okay. I have not made myself honest.
I hold most of you in contempt. All you readers of and editorial staff at the Stranger. I tried to avoid a power struggle and see through to the individuals, but now I give up. I will dominate you in words, with labels, as you have done to me.
We conflict. Our minds struggle in utter conflict. Your ideas and my ideas wage war.
I hold you in utter contempt. The overwhelming majority of you are white, middle class bourgeoisie.
Your order means nothing to me. My god is chaos. Your monogamous security I consider false.
You cause chaos yourselves the world over with your concentrated fiat wealth and top down pyramid rape schemes.
You support the institutions of hierarchy and power structures, all while assuaging your guilt with liberal minded, leftist pomp morals.
You maintain your properties, your yards, your Volvos, your nuclear families, your jobs in upper management, as a swipe in class warfare.
A police State, men with guns, protects your precious NPR order. You support laughable issues like Planned Parenthood and gay marriage while looking the other way, like cowards, while Obama crafts the largest arms deal in U.S. history with the Saudis.
No I have no value for your version of order. The only thing you have that I consider sacred and beyond reproach are your children, even though I know, given time, you will craft them into replicas of your own repressed, frigid WASP minds.
I will disrupt your status quos at every opportunity.
I will continue to fuck your wives and confuse your insecure husbands.
Your pitiful moralizing makes me cringe. Your precious truths beg enforcement by conveyor belt schooling and media homogenization.
Your blood courses with big pharma artificial hormonal birth control and SSRI’s to render any vestige of primal, natural rage and resistance in your systems into vapor.
Weak, pitiful souls. Too wispy to create your own meaning so you look to paternal entities like priests, teachers and politicians to spoon feed your values to you.
You closet sadists and masochists, secretly wet and hard every day you join the corporate circus to kow tow to those above and mount those below like a pack of vying dogs.
Crippled, hobbled ghosts who closet your fears and anguish at every turn to avoid the pressure to face your demons and question yourselves.
False false and false. I tried to make peace but realize now I have always and will always hold you in contempt. I have no respect for your precious property or order. Yes, my god is chaos. And I am my own god.
304
"And I am my own god."

lawnmower man was a bad movie
305
@303: TL;DR.
306
@303: "I hold most of you in contempt. All you readers of and editorial staff at the Stranger. I tried to avoid a power struggle and see through to the individuals, but now I give up. I will dominate you in words, with labels, as you have done to me.

...

You maintain your properties, your yards, your Volvos, your nuclear families, your jobs in upper management, as a swipe in class warfare."

This is class warfare?

No.

This is us laughing at you, the chaos-seeking drifter masquerading behind bohemian airs. "I am supported while I 'find myself', I blow through 'friends' when they prove themselves useless to me, and while I can regurgitate the works of others, i have no creative spark to justify my empty hedonism."

If you think Savage Love is a series of invectives on the underclass, you're projecting your own loathing on those who cannot easily be provided with a comfy job through nepotism when it is time to "settle down".
307
DANCE, DANCE MY PUPPETS
308
@303: Why do I suddenly hear 60s rock poetry by Jim Morrison?

309
Geez OUTOFWATER, just stop. I'm sorry you need a lot of attention right now but maybe you should go find it with all of those lovely people who love and admire you for your beauty and pure soul.
310
Geez OUTOFWATER, please stop. It seems you need a lot of attention right now but maybe it would be more fulfilling to get it in person with whatever kind of person you like. It's just sad to see you go on and on....maybe a therapist would help?