Savage Love

Pathological

Comments

1
First guy is a total toolbag. I'm so tired of less attractive men who are convinced that they deserve models.
2
I am a man, and although I am liberal, I often am unsympathetic to cries of sexism. With that said, the "shitting eggs" thing is over the line. Witness the firestorm in the following comments.
3
@2, I don't think it's sexist so much as more evidence of Dan's intentional ignorance of the female anatomy :P
4
I thought shitting required squeezing something, like shit, out your ass. Is that where eggs come from?
5
I'm with @2... 'shitting eggs' really isn't necessary.
6
"Shitting eggs"... I now have a new excuse for all those bad choices. Who WOULDN'T fuck someone less-than-longterm with something as embarrassing as THAT going on? Love it. Adopting it.
7
"Shitting eggs"... I now have a new excuse for all those bad choices. Who WOULDN'T fuck someone less-than-longterm with something as awkward as THAT going on? Love it. Adopting the phrase. Next time,"I don't know why I did it...I was just shitting eggs and crazy."
8
girls shit eggs and guys piss fertilizer. gross.
9
Yeah ... how about "squirting" eggs, which is still disgusting without being outright offensive.
10
"Shitting eggs"....yeah, I'm with @6 Freeamanda. No wonder I've been such a crazy basket case who's made nothing but bad choices!!

But that was 10 years ago, and blessedly soon, I'll no longer be shitting eggs!!!! I'm gonna party BIG TIME, babeeeeee!!!!
11
@9: Even better.
12
I'm a member of the demographic Dan's referring to, and I agree with @3. I'd be a lot more offended if it were coming from a guy who wanted to do me, and something unique and non-threatening is always going to be less offensive than a cliche (see: "on the rag").
13
I'm a hard-core feminist and I laughed out loud at the "shitting eggs" bit. I'm definitely making it part of my lexicon.
14
"Shitting eggs" is just goofy/gross wordplay; it's not offensive imo.

However, re: "Women tend to be attracted to one type of guy when they're not ovulating (nicer guys: good parents and helpful partners) and a different type of guy when they are ovulating (rougher guys: lousy parents and worse partners)." I'm not going to cry OFFENSE! That's rude! or anything, but that's a crazy leap of logic to make.

Every single article I've ever read about this states that ovulating women are attracted to more masculine-looking or -sounding men, not "rough" guys who are terrible parents or partners. A chiseled jawline and nice wide shoulders aren't going to make a dude a jerky boyfriend, and a weak chin and slim physique won't keep a man from being a punk.

The theory still stands, though: maybe her roommate's physically a Troy and her boyfriend's physically an Abed (or vice-versa--she didn't describe either of them, really).
15
Not only eggs. That family guy episode explains further,

"Babies come out of the butt, right?"
"ahh, yeah"

(episode: I think it's called "Oceans 3 1/2")

I thought Dan was pretty HILARIOUS with that comment. I don't care if he is acting insensitive to poke at a tickle button, but I'm impressed with the straight guys here being all evolved and anti-Peter-Griffin-like. Thanks, guys. You've made both my ovulating and non-ovulating personalities happy.
16
On the whole "shitting eggs" portion, I still think that biological arguments are super uninteresting. I mean, it just suggests, oh well the stuff I do is about my hormones. Also, it suggests that men don't have hormonal fluctuations. It plays into the "crazy emotional women with hormones" argument, which is deeply sexist. I'm not saying Dan is a sexist of course that particular statement, along with many of Dan's discussions on female genitalia, is laced with sexist subtext. Regardless, the suggestion that women ovulating become crazy cock hungry danger sluts I think is just a bit troubling.
17
@16 I don't think it's implying that - Dan was giving advise to a woman, about her libido and related it to hormonal changes during the menstrual cycle - perfectly relevant to what she was talking about. Or do you think libido is not about hormones (potentially pheromones) and body-types?
I agree that there's a lot of underlying sexism in the "crazy women with hormones" idea, but I see something very similar in the "men think with their dicks" side of the argument.
I just think people's libidos will always be influenced by their hormones and it's better to take that into account than to pretend that "the stuff humans do" is completely conscious, controlled and rational.
18
Funny how the "shitting eggs" comment stuck out for most of us in that whole column. With that - and his insistence on using the word "twat" and other repulsive words all the time, Dan certainly has a knack for making women's sexual organs sound disgusting. No question, he's 100% fag.
19
@16 I'm pretty sure Dan highlighted a university study a while back on women's choices of men when they were/weren't ovulating. Maybe it was on the podcast... Either way, the finding was what he outlined in the second possible explanation to FANTASY.
20
The phrase "shitting eggs" is hilarious. I'm not seeing how it degrades women - if anything it degrades babies by comparing their component cells to a waste product.

Which is fine by me 'cause I don't like kids.

Good answers this week, btw. Glad that first guy got called out for the asshole he clearly is.
21
Shitting eggs...ugh, gross. Let's not make this a thing people say.
22
I think "shitting eggs" is a very amusing turn of phrase...I mean, it is an involuntary act...

a middle aged woman who is no longer shitting eggs...
23
shitting eggs stuck out for me, too!

Man, how awesome would it be if we could just poop out menstrual waste instead of walking around padded/wadded/cupped like incontinent old people once a month? I truly look forward to the day when I can shit my eggs instead of slowly leaking them over a period of three days. XD
24
Thumbs up for "crazy cock hungry danger sluts". I found 'shitting eggs' opportunistically sexist - dan just couldn't resist slipping it in there - since he'll never have to deal with ovulation himself. Alas, humor is subjective. I may use that one among friends, if there are no broads around.
25
Birds only have one hole, and hence females shit eggs and give birth to piss and turds (male birds shit, piss and ejaculate from their ass). Dan was merely comparing women to chickens, but was sadly short two holes. Fitting punishment? Studiously exploring a woman's parts with his tongue to discover all three, once and for all.
26
As the child of two conflictophiles, I would completely agree with your advice that they should find similar partners and fight together. However, I would like to note an important caveat: these people should never have (or adopt) children. They may enjoy screaming at each other at the top of their lungs and humiliating each other in public, but it will mean that every single time a child's parents are in the same room (or on the phone) will be traumatic. If your friends ever plan to adopt, or use reproductive technology to have children, please firmly and as politely as possible explain that children thrive in a peaceful home and that they should reconsider their decision.
27
As the child of two conflictophiles, I would completely agree with your advice that they should find similar partners and fight together. However, I would like to note an important caveat: these people should never have (or adopt) children. They may enjoy screaming at each other at the top of their lungs and humiliating each other in public, but it will mean that every single time a child's parents are in the same room (or on the phone) will be traumatic. If your friends ever plan to adopt, or use reproductive technology to have children, please firmly and as politely as possible explain that children thrive in a peaceful home and that they should reconsider their decision.
28
All these comments about shitting eggs? Jesus, you people can't take a joke. Grow some skin and stfu.
29
I haven't read the studies for myself, but I strongly, strongly suspect that the "findings", as simplified by Dan, probably resemble the end phase of the science news cycle: http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=11…
30
@20 I love kids - I'm nursing one right now - and I think "shitting eggs" is pretty damn funny too.

Probably not a phrase I'd like to see live in the lexicon, but it feels pretty accurate sometimes.
31
Divorce rates are not 50%. More info: http://bpp.wharton.upenn.edu/betseys/pap…
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/d/d…
32
FANTASY is a good example of why I think it's a bad idea for people under 20 or 22 to move in with their significant others. I'm assuming she was living at home with her parents until just a couple months ago. Living on your own and starting college are big enough changes on their own - throwing cohabitation with a romantic partner into the mix seems excessive. Many high-school relationships end when the people involved go to college anyway. Sure, yours might not, but having a lease entangled with your relationship's fate makes everything more complicated.
33
Sheggs :)
34
Shegging!
35
Am I the only one here who feels that the question by MRA is fake? From the acronym to the stereotypical portrayal of the feminist idea of what an MRA is... the whole thing stinks of fake.
36
As the supportive, marrying kind of guy,

Who writes these bullshit rules anyway? Why do we get stuck in dull?

Peace.
37
The MRA question sounds like one Dan answered before - maybe in the podcast or something? I'm just getting some major deja vu here.
38
The number of Republicans amongst the comments having a fit over the use of "shitting eggs" is H I L arious.
39
Mr Hamish - Your proposed punishment is too lenient, although it is an excellent start. After the session in question, let's add on that for the next year any press coverage of Mr Savage should identify him as both bisexual and fifty-three years old.

Bonus points to anyone who can figure out what fictional 53-year-old is constantly putting his foot in his mouth, frequently when speaking about women.
40
shitting eggs - hahaha, hilarious! Excellent column this week Dan. You're full of zing!
41
Mr Married - I take your point. My take on the second possibility would have been more along the lines of a natural interest in someone FANTASY hadn't yet bedded. Once might be more than enough for her if she ever did.

"Dump" in the conclusion seemed a little harsh. It's quicker than "part amicably" but I think we're getting into a Dump Culture.

FANTASY reminds me a little (in a sideways manner) of the recent LW who said she would like sex every day while her partner would prefer once or twice a month. It's all well and good to get into the mood every day when it isn't happening often. But not everyone who thinks it's a great idea in theory can keep an every day string going an entire month.
42
I haven't read the above comments yet. I thought I'd weigh in first, then check to see if I'm agreeing or disagreeing.

For MRA-- Dan is correct on everything except his conclusion based on your age. He has a somewhat rigid idea of when it's normal for "attractive" people to lose their virginity, be in their first relationship, be ready to settle down, come out (or know their orientation), and know what they like sexually. My experience is that it's quite a bit more fluid than that. A 23 year old might be a virgin because he's not hot, or it might be because he's been busy with other things. I compare it to those charts on when babies should be raising their heads, speaking their first words, and walking. Being off schedule could be the signal that something's wrong, or it could be that there's a kid who's developing at their own pace.
43
For FANTASY-- I'd go with Dan's explanation #1. The conclusions based on women's varying attractions due to ovulation schedule is based on some laboratory research and some real life observations. It's the sort of thing where there's a little statistical evidence, but there are also so many exceptions as to make the whole thing interesting (I was interested) while not exactly something you'd base advice on.

Here's some practical advice: Whatever you do, seek alternate living space first. Otherwise, you've got a nightmare. Break up with a nice guy you find moderately attractive, possibly break his heart, start up with the other roommate, and continue living together? Recipe for a nightmare at the worst and nasty treatment of a nice guy at the best. You all deserve better.
44
I didn't like "shitting eggs."
"Shucking eggs" is a better alternative.
Stll a good column, though.
45
In total agreement that the third couple seem splendidly well-matched. I always think of the innocent parties spared couplehood with half of such a couple.
46
@39 Maybe Dan can have a new contest, the winner can give Dan an anatomy lesson, and Dan can prove being gay is not a choice to boot. Hey, maybe the winner can shit an egg in Dan's mouth! And he can videotape it for the next Hump! Triple win!
47
Re FANTASY, I agree with @32 - not a good idea for 18 year olds to live with the person they're (currently) dating. Let alone with another man and woman as well. Seems more like an MTV reality show than an opportunity to make the most of their college education.

Re MRA, I think he is depressed, and so I don't trust his self-reporting of how much of an asshole he was. They should break up; he should try dating someone he's attracted to; and he should get some therapy for his depression.
48
re FANTASY - I'd add a third potential reason: she's just eighteen and is thinking about fucking another guy she's not even that attracted to because she doesn't want to settle down yet. She's young and wants to see other people but she's tied down in a quasi-marriage just as her whole life is opening up to new possibilities. But, since she's a nice person and her bf is a nice person she feels that there's something wrong with her. Nothing wrong with you, lady, you're just 18 and you want a life and fun and you don't want to be a de facto Mrs. Somebody at the most carefree time of your life. Listen to your inner self, and enjoy your life. It may not be wise to F* the room-mate, but it is wise to not be tied down when you're barely out of high school.
49
Re ovulation affecting a woman's preferences -- does anyone have a link to a solid study? I know people like to think about this, and like to think they can identify when a woman is ovulating. But I haven't seen anything convincing.

And in any case, it doesn't apply if FANTASY is on hormonal birth control, like many women in college.

50
Story #1 Been there done that but I was 18. This guy obviously hasn't had enough relationships to get through the douchebag phase as I did. Good call on the advice, Dan.

Story #2 Eighteen and living with her boyfriend? Fuck that. Now's the time to dump the safety and security and date a metric shit ton of people. Only then are you going to be able to form an opinion about what you do and don't want in a long term relationship.

On a separate note I think people shouldn't be allowed to get married until they're at least 30, 35 for men. Seriously, did y'all know what the hell you were doing before then? I sure didn't.
51
Re "MRA": it smacks of a very immature person who, having only just lost their virginity after having to wait far too long is enthralled with the notion that after ten years since puberty of nobody fucking him is now thrilled with the idea that there are people out there who WILL! (HOORAY!) People in a situation like that are notoriously bad at judging their own attractiveness: they've gone from a decade of thinking that they're unfuckable and all of a sudden they have concrete proof that they aren't hideous and untouchable and they often swing too far the other way. He's not a shit, he's a confused newb.
52
I think Dan was on his period when he wrote this crap this week. "Shitting eggs" is an unnecessarily aggressive way to describe ovulation. His use of the words "fuckers" and "assholes" to talk about the gay bride and groom also came off as unusually aggressive to me.

Perhaps he's not on his period, but simply hasn't been able to shit enough sperm lately and that's why he's so damn grumpy.
53
I think Dan was on his period when he wrote this crap this week. "Shitting eggs" is an unnecessarily aggressive way to describe ovulation. His use of the words "fuckers" and "assholes" to talk about the gay bride and groom also came off as unusually aggressive to me.

Perhaps he's not on his period, but simply hasn't been able to shit enough sperm lately and that's why he's so damn grumpy.
54
Connection between MRA and FANTASY: to be young and comparatively new to sex is a VERY BAD TIME INDEED to be in a committed relationship.
55
Conflictophiles. Yes, that is the perfect word, and I must remember to apply it.

And @26 is right on...I'm the offspring of two people who fought constantly. They've been married 30 years now and in all likelyhood will make it to their 40th, and possibly even their 50th, wedding anniversary. I'm really happy that I misunderstood their relationship for 20+ years and that they are actually really happy together. But when I think about my childhood, the stress and the embarrassment, I want to bash both of their heads together.
56
He's not a shit, he's a confused newb.

-He says himself that he treated this woman badly because she wasn't important to him.

-He seems to have broken up with her not because he's actually unattracted to her, but because he wants a girlfriend that other people will be attracted to; he wants to impress his peers.

-He's asking Dan for permission to come back into this girl's life so he can enjoy her sex and emotional support (so, basically, be in a romantic relationship with her again) while he looks around for her replacement.

A "confused newb" would break up with a girlfriend he liked and treated well to pursue other opportunities. Arguably a stupid choice, if he's overestimating his appeal, but whatever - people make stupid choices sometimes. Perhaps one day he'd realize he made a mistake and get back together with the girl, if she'd have him.

Our man MRA, however, is completely and deliberately fucking around with this girl's heart. He's a shit.
57
@16 "I still think that biological arguments are super uninteresting. I mean, it just suggests, oh well the stuff I do is about my hormones."

Certainly this sort of research _could_ be used to suggest that, but I don't think any of the actual research has maid anything approaching that claim.

I think that most of it indicates that your biology is sort of like driving conditions, in that you mostly just have to correct for them as you go. Still, if you totally ignore extreme conditions, biologically or driving, you certainly can spin out of control.
58
Yeah I thought "shitting eggs" was HILARIOUS.
59
@ 52/53 "shitting sperm"

As a masculinist I am deeply offended by such a misandristic and biologically inaccurate turn of phrase. For shame!
60
perversecowgirl, you're putting the worst possible read on this guy. He's new to being found attractive, and he wants to explore the world AND hang on to his secure base. That's unreasonable, foolish and more than a tad selfish, but "hell, I don't want to lose what I have!" is a natural reaction to somebody on their first go-round. It'd be exactly the same dynamic for the gf if she was having these feelings, and perhaps even more understandable at 28 than 24. I've been that guy. Girls who were with me have been that guy. None of us were assholes, we were just confused and hoping for gains without losing what we had. Wrong, but not evil.
61
There are three couples in Canada who qualify as "first" - the two couples married in 2001 by Rev. Brent Hawkes in a challenge to the law, whose marriages were retroactively recognized by the government in 2003, and the first couple issued a license by the government in 2003.

I have not heard of ANY of these couples divorcing, nor was I able to find any evidence that they have.

Dan, if you're aware of any, please let us know or else please correct your column.
62
FANTASY may just be 18 years old and boy crazy. Of course she wants what's forbidden. One good drinking binge and she will end up fucking the other guys' brains out, loving it, and then being horrified the next morning. Could be a good way to end the crush, though.

Still, living at such close quarters seems a bit of a powder keg. Maybe she should concentrate on her college coursework and join the track and field team to work off some of that excess energy.
63
Yeah, "shitting eggs" made me cringe a bit too. It does seem needlessly harsh. Then again, it's too idiotic to actually offend me. A woman doesn't release multiple "eggs" during ovulation -- though many people are stupid enough to think that -- only a single, delicate ovum, tiny enough to fit on the head of a pin. So yeah, the bandying about of a phrase like this would only announce to me that the speaker was a vulgar moron not to be taken seriously, it wouldn't upset me.
64
creativityescapesme @35, "the stereotypical portrayal of the feminist idea of what an MRA {mens' rights activist} is" would probably be an angry, middle-aged man going through a divorce, and surfing the internet for Russian brides. So, nothing to do with MRA in this column at all.

However, I was a little surprised at how clear-eyed and unapologetic about his obviously assholish plan MRA was. Don't know what's up with that.
65
"Women tend to be attracted to one type of guy when they're not ovulating (nicer guys: good parents and helpful partners) and a different type of guy when they are ovulating (rougher guys: lousy parents and worse partners)."

This smacks of evo-psych and I hate it.
66
@65: That doesn't make it any less true:

http://www.livescience.com/8779-fertile-…
67
Seeker6079 (#60), MRA explicitly tells us that he treats this woman badly enough to make her cry, that she's not important to him, but that he wants to string her along because she's "a pillar of support" for him. This is not an uncharitable or biased interpretation, this is what he actually fucking says.

Above and beyond any of the other situational shit - he'd like to fuck around while still having security, blah blah whatever - wanting to keep someone in your life so you can treat them like shit while taking advantage of their good nature is...not something good people do.
68
rolando74: the funniest thing about evopsych is usually the rapidity with which it is hailed by antifeminists (who grab on to everything that will support their position, regardless of context) and the equal rapidity with which it is rejected by feminists (who will instantly reject it and question the validity of all of it, no matter what).

I don't give a damn either way, so like the person watching Shia LeBoeuf and some other fool smack each other in Vancouver I'm free to enjoy the show without a dog in the hunt.
69
"shitting eggs" equates eggs with shit. Unnecessary crassness.
70
@59: Now THERE you go----shitting sperm!!!!
LOL!!!! I LOVE it!!!!
71
That's what I call some "messed up spunk"---male OR female!
72
I'm fine with shitting eggs.

Do we read Dan Savage for his incisive insights or super-polite manners and political correctness?

Carry on and thanks,Dan!
73
@67, in my experience, people who boast of their callousness are usually assholes, whereas people who beat themselves up are usually depressed. Maybe you've met a different brand of asshole than I have.
75
Three things...

1. Dan was SPOT ON with the assesment of the first LR. A lot of unattractive guys think they're attractive and/or deserve attractive women. No good looking guy makes it to 23 with his Vcard intact unless he's an evangelical waiting for marriage. Hell, no AVERAGE looking guy makes it that long. This is the kind of guy I want to kick in the teeth for hitting on me presuming he's in my league. Ugh.

2. Shitting eggs is gross, but Dan finds women 'icky' so what do you want. The evolutionary psych he delves into is more troubling. In case anyone's wondering Evolutionary Psych is about as scientific as homeopathy.

If you don't understand how much of a burn that is, then I give up.

3. 26 is absolutely right, and it's something sorely neglected from Dan's response.
77
I have to call Dan out, as well as poster #1 among others: nowhere did this guy say that he's "entitled" to a hot girlfriend, or that he "deserves" one. He just WANTS one, but also feels guilty about it.

Dan wouldn't be slinging around words like "entitled" if the guy were in search of a smarter girlfriend, or a kinder one. But because it's considered bad form (or antifeminist, or whatever) to openly admit to doing what MRA has done, especially since it confirms some of women's worst fears about men, we use loaded words to describe his behavior. We can't just say "he wants someone hotter"; we have to say he thinks he DESERVES it, so as to turn him into an intolerable cartoon, and distance ourselves from his bad behavior so as to avoid guilt by association.

I've been in a position like MRA's. Shortly after I started having sex, I met a girl who was perfect for me in almost every way, except one: I wasn't very attracted to her, and knew that most people considered her of below-average attractiveness. Plus, like MRA, I really wanted to date someone hot at least once or twice, so I knew what it felt like to be with someone mindmeltingly attractive. But I ignored the warning signals and ended up in a monogamous relationship with this girl, didn't treat her as well as I should have, and it all ended badly.

And -- this is the important part -- like MRA, I think my guilt made things worse. If I'd just slept with this girl a few times and then dumped her, it would've hurt her and she would've said bad things about me, but then we would've moved on. Instead, I wasted years of both our lives trying not to be "that guy", when in reality it probably would have been better for everyone if I'd just been more of a douche.
78
@66 if this is the study you're referring to, it looks like crap:
http://www.livescience.com/8779-fertile-…

>> The researchers recruited 66 monogamous heterosexual couples. Women took a hormone test to determine their phase in the menstrual cycle. Next, over the course of a month, the women came to the lab three times to answer a questionnaire on their sexual attractions and fantasies. One of the sessions was scheduled for each woman's fertile period, while the other two were during the luteal, or non-fertile, phase of the menstrual cycle. >>

If that's accurate, then they may not even have been testing the women when they were fertile. One hormone test isn't going to let you know when the woman will ovulate later in the month. Also, that site doesn't provide enough info to how statistically significant the study was.

Just because something is published doesn't make it true.
79
I can't help but feel MRA is written by the girlfriend. It is too precise and highly self-critical, while noting she is (unconventionally) attractive and a pillar of support. Yeah, they were both inexperienced, he was an ass, she allowed him to jerk her around... and it's just a backwards way of getting Dan to that this guy is the asshole she thinks he is!

[I'm not saying it's this way, there are many highly sensitive men who are self critical of the crappy results of being new to dating... but it just seems too perfect]

80
I have to call Dan out, as well as poster #1 among others: nowhere did this guy say that he's "entitled" to a hot girlfriend, or that he "deserves" one. He just WANTS one, but also feels guilty about it.

Dan wouldn't be slinging around words like "entitled" if the guy were in search of a smarter girlfriend, or a kinder one. But because it's considered bad form (or antifeminist, or whatever) to openly admit to doing what MRA has done, especially since it confirms some of women's worst fears about men, we use loaded words to describe his behavior. We can't just say "he wants someone hotter"; we have to say he thinks he DESERVES it, so as to turn him into an intolerable cartoon, and distance ourselves from his bad behavior so as to avoid guilt by association.

I've been in a position like MRA's. Shortly after I started having sex, I met a girl who was perfect for me in almost every way, except one: I wasn't very attracted to her, and knew that most people considered her of below-average attractiveness. Plus, like MRA, I really wanted to date someone hot at least once or twice, so I knew what it felt like to be with someone mindmeltingly attractive. But I ignored the warning signals and ended up in a monogamous relationship with this girl, didn't treat her as well as I should have, and it all ended badly.

And -- this is the important part -- like MRA, I think my guilt made things worse. If I'd just slept with this girl a few times and then dumped her, it would've hurt her and she would've said bad things about me, but then we would've moved on. Instead, I wasted years of both our lives trying not to be "that guy", when in reality it probably would have been better for everyone if I'd just been more of a douche.
82
I agree, Dan, that MRA should not be in that relationship, but before he leaves, he needs to apologize and admit to his girlfriend that he is the kind of guy who would dump a woman like her over her looks. He has every right to dump her if he wants to, but he also has an obligation to her to take responsibility for being an asshole.
83
@81: Yeah, absolutely agreed. That was a dumb comment on Dan's part, and another example of demonizing someone because you don't like what they have to say. It doesn't really matter whether he's hot or fugly.

@82: That's a monumentally stupid idea. Taking responsibility for being an asshole, yes, but telling her that he dumped her because she wasn't hot enough for him? Yeah, that'll give her closure.
84
"I take umbrage at the idea that being a virgin until 23 means you are not hot. You are confusing not being a slut with not being hot." => no, no. When you're hot and not a slut, you still have, like everyone, your hormones bursting from 13 to 23 (let's say), and other teenagers too. So chances are : if you don't get laid before 23, that's not because you're "not a slut", just because you're not hot, OR you really don't want it. Which does not mean everyone who's fucking younger than that is a slut. That means you found good reasons not to fuck before. Dan didn't take a big risk by saying that.

About the 'ovulation experiment', the studies that have been made around this weren't very accurate, nothing's really proved, and that's what we call "neuro-sexism" in journalism. That's very fancy, nowadays, to publish bullshit studies, 'cause there won't be a lot of journalist who will check if the study was made randomly, double-blinded, on a large enough amount of individuals. And even, few would publish it. Cf. Ben Goldacre's book "Bad Science" ;)

I hope Dan will read the comments, and care about checking very carefully this kind of theory.
85
"I take umbrage at the idea that being a virgin until 23 means you are not hot. You are confusing not being a slut with not being hot." => no, no. When you're hot and not a slut, you still have, like everyone, your hormones bursting from 13 to 23 (let's say), and other teenagers too. So chances are : if you don't get laid before 23, that's not because you're "not a slut", just because you're not hot, OR you really don't want it. Which does not mean everyone who's fucking younger than that is a slut. That means you found good reasons not to fuck before. Dan didn't take a big risk by saying that.

About the 'ovulation experiment', the studies that have been made around this weren't very accurate, nothing's really proved, and that's what we call "neuro-sexism" in journalism. That's very fancy, nowadays, to publish bullshit studies, 'cause there won't be a lot of journalist who will check if the study was made randomly, double-blinded, on a large enough amount of individuals. And even, few would publish it. Cf. Ben Goldacre's book "Bad Science" ;)

I hope Dan will read the comments, and care about checking very carefully this kind of theory.
86
(sorry for the double !)
87
For my part I thought "shitting eggs" was pretty damn funny. You don't come to Savage Love for politesse and delicacy, you guys.

And the changing-desires-during-ovulation thing is actual science, not some evo-psych Just So Story. For what it's worth. Go look it up.
88
@81 cockyballsup: Thank you and God bless!!! Spot on (no pun intended)!!
90
The problem with the ovulation-specific explanation for this girl is that she says that "I want to fuck the new guy's brains out all the time." She does reference not having "an out-of-this-world libido" but doesn't say she only wants to have sex with her boyfriend for three days in a row each month, so it seems pretty obvious that she's attracted to both simultaneously (if not for the same reasons/in the same way/with the same intensity) which means that the cycle theory, whether crap or not, cannot apply.

More likely explanation? She has a more active libido than she thinks, but things have cooled (or were never that hot) with her boyfriend, and she's getting nudges from her body and subconscious or whatever when she's around potential sexual partners. My guess is if she were honest with herself she'd realize that she has sexual thoughts about a lot of guys that she encounters in her life (hot T.A., random guy who smiled at her at a party, carful of highschool boys who whistled at her on the street, ancient professor who's still a little bit hot in a tweedy kind of way, etc.). It's just that she's around the roommate more than anybody else, so she's more aware of it and the passing thoughts/fantasies have had the opportunity to grow into something more inescapable. This is totally normal whether she wants to stay in her relationship with BF or not, and DOES NOT mean that roommate is a good option for next BF or fuck buddy; just that he's most ubiquitous.

Obviously a little introspection about her relationship and being so committed so young is in order, but I think others have pretty much covered that.
91
@89: Another reason you missed -- sometimes people are fat, and lose weight in their early 20s. I've known a few people through the years who were severely obese, but turned out to be drop-dead gorgeous at a much lower weight.

(Yes, people can be gorgeous and overweight -- some people are even at their most beautiful when they're quite a bit overweight -- but most people look far more attractive when they're not 100+ lbs. overweight. Being very, very fat distorts a person's face in ways most of us find unappealing, even if the rest of them were skinny as can be.)
92
@87 - I asked (@49) for someone to point me in the direction of some "actual science, as you say. @66 tried and failed. Put up or shut up.
93
I must admit, I'm a woman, a lesbian, and a feminist, and I found the "shitting eggs" line hi-lar-ious!
94
FANTASY, I don't know how "long-term" this boyfriend is, but it could just be the novelty of a new partner to fantasize about that is getting your libido running. It happens whenever you find a new person to fantasize about. Don't read too much into it, unless you want to end your current relationship. He may be terrible for you, or not. In any case, enjoy the boost in your libido, fuck your boyfriend if you're horny, and don't dare make a move on him until the living situation changes. If you don't want to crush on him, make a point of keeping a mental list of his faults. The crush will wear off soon enough.
95
"shitting eggs" made me laugh out loud. In fact, I'm shitting some myself right now. (and F "Aunt Flow" - from now on I'm shitting eggs!)
96
Shitting eggs, shooting shit, it's all in fun.
97
Dan's response to MRA is kind of reverse DTMFA. It's DHBYAAMF (Dump Him/Her Because YOU Are A MF).
99
shitting eggs? was that really necessary?
100
@ 36 Married -- We don't get stuck in dull, we marry some freaky, appreciative woman who can wrap her head around the fact that nice can co-exist with sexy and hot. Madonnas can be whores, nice guys can be wicked lovers. The rules are total bullshit and should be ignored.

-Another supportive husband

101
http://www.fed.cuhk.edu.hk/~lchang/mater…

There is a reputable study from 2007. I remember learning about these studies in Psych 101!
When a female is ovulating we are looking for a mate that has high testosterone levels (characterized by jutting brow and jaw bones, thick body hair, and surprisingly thinning or balding) because we are genetically programmed to believe they will produce the best offspring. When we are not ovulating we are looking for men who would be good fathers and protect our offspring.
102
http://www.fed.cuhk.edu.hk/~lchang/mater…

There is a reputable study from 2007. I remember learning about these studies in Psych 101!
When a female is just about to ovulate (not when we are ovulating) we are looking for a mate that has high testosterone levels (characterized by jutting brow and jaw bones, thick body hair, and surprisingly thinning or balding) because we are genetically programmed to believe they will produce the best offspring. When we are less fertile we are less interested in these characteristics and more so in good father figures.
103
I'm a woman and I didn't think twice when I read the phrase "shitting eggs." But now that my attention has been drawn to it, I must say the comment is kinda funny.
104
@101/102, thanks for the link. But it's not solid evidence. They did not test whether the 238 women were actually fertile during the period when they were assumed to be fertile:

"Based on actuarial estimates of women’s fertility risk given both the day of their cycle when they made the ratings and the typical length of their cycle..."

"Women who did not provide information sufficient to determine their cycle day." So it was entirely self-reported, and would be screwed up by women misremembering the day their last period started (very common), or being over-confident about the length of their cycle (also common at that age).

"We assumed that the typical day of ovulation was approximately 15 days prior to the end of the typical cycle." If you used such assumptions to decide when to use birth control, you might soon find yourself pregnant.

They knew what they wanted to find. They went and found it. Garbage in, garbage out.

They include unnecessarily strong claims like:
"Women are attracted to features attractive in short-term mates (but not long-term mates) when fertile and, when their partners do not possess these features, they are particularly drawn to men other than their partners."

Um, not me, I've been on bc hormones for twenty years. Still a woman, last time I checked.
105
"Shitting eggs"?

O.K. Dan. We get it. You're the gayest gay who ever gayed. In case anyone is ever on the verge of forgetting how gross you think women's bodies are, you throw something in every third column or so to remind us.

I'm confused by how (in the same column, no less) you can be sensitive to women as people and a minute later throw out a little something nasty to let us know you still think we're gross.

I'm starting to think maybe the lady doth protest too much. That's IT! Dan secretly wants to bang BBW. Mystery solved.