A-fucking-men. This letter should be required reading for everyone in high school.

@1 Have you tried a real vibrator? As in a Magic Wand or equivalent vibrator that is powerful enough to not just tickle? Also, don't be afraid to apply a lot of pressure, a good quality vibrator can take it and giving more deep tissue stimulation will probably help.

Hi Dreaded. You say you're physically healthy but have you spoken to a doctor about this? One who takes you and your concerns seriously? If not that would be my first stop. Question, does non-vaginal contact give you pleasure? How does it feel when you or your partner stimulates other erogenous zones? I'd also be curious as to why your sex life is better than it was if you aren't experiencing sexual pleasure....

Thanks bucketloads from all the women, Dan - can't say this enough - and Merry Xmas/Happy Holidays to you and your family.

@1 - I second someone's mention of a vibrator. This is imo a must an absolute basic in every girl's sexual and orgasmic arsenal. Best of luck.

@5: I don't use super strong vibrators and never have. I have a tiny rubbery one in the shape of a small rabbit with tiny cute ears that work wonders. It's of course speed adjustable. The key for me is that unlike a lot of vibies out there, I don't use the tip part that flips back and forth at high speed. Never understood that - it hurts! The ears are what do it.

Here's a link:

http://www.holisticwisdom.com/honey-dog-…

Best of luck.

Btw just noticed on the bottom of the Honey Dog box, that I got this from Toys is Babeland, back when it was called that instead of "Babeland"- what, a dozen years ago? That's how long the bastards last.

What about using water - put the stream of water on and around your clit? Works best with a telephone shower but could work if you lay down in a tub and have the water pour down on your clit? I get that twitchy feeling - try pushing from the left side of your clit and maybe just try it a little longer - sometimes twitchy is the starting point and then a little later it turns into orgasm. Try reading or watching something erotic to get you super aroused and closer to climax. Have fun!!

Dear Dreaded, I am also in that 30% who love pressure / penetration and can't stand clitoral stimulation. This does the trick for me consistently: http://www.amazon.com/LELO-Luxury-G-Spot…

I'm glad Mr Savage was able to make such a strong case to serve as a building block for someone who has done so much with it. I recall the podcast chat as going a bit too far - it made me wonder when Mr Savage would start trying to kick all of us with gold stars off Team Homo - but it had widespread utility and I've survived much worse than a little Holmes-Earth-Sun.

As my new modem has not arrived today, I think this a good time for a week's hiatus to allow the Brontesplainers a chance to have their fair share of the conversation. Please nobody be nasty to Ms Hopkins.

Dear Dreadedwheat:
I know it's an old cliché, but if my brain isn't sufficiently engaged, I'm never going to get beyond medium-level arousal.
You don't mention whether you fantasize, either during masturbation, or partnered sex. I think that is key.

But you may not even know exactly what it is that arouses you. I'd encourage you to up your exposure to written erotica, visual porn, thoughts that get you excited. If you don't find erotica or porn that get you going, try a different kind of erotica or porn. You may be surprised--and not always in a good way--by what really turns you on. Think back to the thoughts that you first had when you were a teenager or pubescent: was there something that you used to fantasize about? Have you stopped thinking about it because it is offensive to you in your non-sexual life, or it's embarrassing? Bring it back and intensify it.

And then keep the images and thoughts going while you try different sorts of stimulation, with your fingers, with showerhead massagers, with all different kinds of vibrators at all different speeds and different pressures. Try different angles and positions. You may want to ask your boyfriend to read a dirty story aloud or tell you one, or just talk dirty to you (if you know what ideas are hot to you, ask him to describe them) while you try these things, but since only you will know exactly what it is that turns you on in a big way, he may not be able to do it unless you can identify it for him.

Good luck!

Hi Dreaded, thanks for the additional info. I agree pleasure is a tricky beast and I love what you said about working with what you've got. It sounds to me like you've been doing all the right things physically and mentally and it seems like the progress you've made is pretty damn significant! Go girl! Keep playing and exploring and enjoy the journey. (And let us know if you discover any super cool stuff!!)

Mr. Ven, if you see this before you go on hiatus or when you return, know that I, an inhabitant of hetero-land, as well as the happy possessor of a clitoris, found Sophia Wallace a bit too much, as well. But I love this column of Dan's and wish I knew when it was originally written.
I hope you get a new modem for xmas.

If you like pressure, but nothing else is super pleasurable, why not intensify the pressure? You could try something like binding your breasts and then having your man bend you over the bed/ couch so you have pressure on your abdomen (might even be able to get the gspot if the angle is right). If you have the right partner, try having him hold your neck especially with a really tight blindfold. That feeling of sex being fun or nice but not pleasurable is what happened to me on Prozac. even though it's been out of my system for years, I still need intense pressure a lot of the time.

Oh yes, pressure:
1. Drink a lot--I mean a lot--of water.
2. Wait for at least an hour. Don't pee.
3. Lie on your back, knees bent, legs spread.
4. Have your boyfriend press hard with the palm of one hand on your lower abdomen, directly above your pubic bone.
5. (If you like the feeling of penetration) Have him finger-penetrate you with as many fingers as you can take, or fist you if you can take/like that, pressing up from inside your vagina against his abdomen-pressing hand.
6: Use your own fingers or a vibrator to stimulate your clit externally.
7. Remember to keep your brain engaged with the thoughts that get you aroused (rarely "I love my boyfriend").

We are the 30%

Anyway for dreaded: I find that a good position for pressure is lying on your tummy while your partner is on top of you. From the right angle you get a lot of top notch pressure that way.

Joe Newton's cartoon is giggly cute....

YAAAY, Dan!! This is truly a classic reprint from the Savage Love Hall of Fame, and I fervently agree with jujubee80: it really SHOULD be required reading for all hormone enraged high schoolers everywhere.

Yay and thanks again, nocutename (@12 & @16)!
Although your helpful advice is primarily meant for @1 dreaded wheat (good luck, too, by the way), I'm taking notes, as a much-healthier-than-I-ever-have-been-in-over-two-decades 49-year-old, too.
My amazing naturopath calls me "perky" now!
(I wish the studs down in Navy SEAL training-land from way back when could see me now! At least I can still savor some nice Big 5-0 Brad Pitt dreams.)

Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, Happy Kwanzaa, Happy Boxing Day (for our Canadian friends, especially), and Happy 2014 to all.

@2 - I think that is the point of the cliteracy project...the interview on the podcast (magnum anyway) was very good.

@1 - I'm not a clit-owner, but I'd like to riff off @21's advice as well as @3(&4). I wonder how aroused you are in these encounters...the brain is bigger and more important than the clit or penis. I think the odds are good you've got a mental block to really relaxing. The go-to ultimate orgasm device I've heard of is the Magic Wand, but I can well imagine it is nothing but a major high-power irritant if you've not aroused. Focussing could make you block, but it also might push out of your mind whatever it is that's creeping in and blocking you. Good luck to you.

Pegging my boyfriend, for example: that's great sex, but I'm not feeling physical pleasure in that situation. Know what I mean?

Oh, I should've read this follow up...um, well, first, maybe you in bed with the wrong gender? No snark.

If you're sure the gender is right, and you feel like pegging is great sex, but it's not giving you physical pleasure, try a Feeldoe or Nexus.

@22 (Dreadedwheat): I think the fact that you don't really know what gets you aroused is the main impediment to orgasm. As someone else pointed out, without the engagement of your mind, a vibrator will just be so much buzzing.

I think that the focus on the physical sensations lead a lot of us to believe that that's all that's necessary for sex to be good--and for some people I'm sure that's true. For for others--I'm one--there needs to be a lot of mental activity going on, and more than just "I like piv."

I didn't have my first orgasm until I was 38. Yeah, 38. I enjoyed sex, but it never felt more than just sort of nice. I also didn't fantasize at all. I had tried masturbating at various points in my life, also without a fantasy running in my head, just a focus on the physical sensations, and it was incredibly frustrating: a few vague sensations and not much more. It didn't have what was the primary source of my pleasure in sex, which was a sense of intimacy and closeness with my partner and the satisfaction of knowing I was helping him to feel good and orgasm. That was really the biggest payoff to me, and masturbation didn't provide that, so I pretty much stopped.

As a teenager, I had the sensation of wanting to be filled so my earliest masturbation efforts included various dildos made from carrots, cucumbers, and candles (the 3 Cs), but after the pleasure of initial penetration, there wasn't much more to be gotten from them. I tried stimulating clit with my fingers, and it felt kind of tingly nice but those sensations tapered off fairly quickly. Any kind of sexual activity with boyfriends and later my husband was similar.

Once I was older than a teen, I tried various vibrators (a bullet and the always-hyped Hitachi Magic Wand) and they did nothing for me. I felt as if there was something "broken" about me, something defective. From things my mother and sister said, I suspected that they also had never orgasmed so I asked them directly and got answers like "I think I have." I now know that if you "think" you have had an orgasm, you haven't. It's the same thing as looking at your newborn's mouth twitching at 5 weeks and thinking: "is that a smile? I think that's a smile." When they really start to smile, giving that huge, open-mouthed grin, you wonder how you could ever have confused those little twitches for the real thing.

Throughout this whole time, I didn't fantasize. I had watched some porn (I came of age during the 1970s, so classic porn movies, not internet porn) and it disgusted me. It actively repulsed me, turned me off sex. I tried reading the erotica I knew about (Penthouse Forum letters, Anaïs Nin, a few pulpy novels sold in novelty shops), but they didn't turn me on.

When I hit my late 30s, my libido began to surge. I was no longer on hormonal birth control, and had had two kids, so there might be something in that. At any rate, I began to be seriously interested in sex for it's own sake and not merely because it was part of what I did with my husband. I went on a quest, and I was lucky because in all the intervening years, a lot had changed and a lot more options were easily available.

I read a lot of erotica, and found stories that aroused me; I tried a lot of vibrators and found one that satisfied my need for penetration and pressure, and also stimulated my clit (that need for pressure, btw, might be the way your internal clitoral tissue gets stimulated. More of your clit is internal than external). But I need to keep a narrative running in my head to get aroused enough to come.

I run elaborate scenarios through my mind, and as I get more and more aroused, the set-ups fade away and only an act or an idea or an image or even just a phrase or a single word starts to flood my mind with urgency.

When I'm with a partner, I don't have the whole mental scenario, but he and I often role-play (often just through talk) a scenario we both find arousing, or we read erotica aloud to each other to start the scene, or we just narrate what we're thinking or feeling to each other. Words are crucial to me. Still, as I get closer to climax, I stop speaking as much as I start focusing more on the image or phrase that runs through my mind--it may be what my partner is doing to me, but I have to articulate it to myself, not merely feel it, if that makes sense.

I hope this wasn't TMI; I wanted to share my story to say that if I could do it, I'm sure you can, too. But it takes knowing what really turns you on, and for some of us, that means fantasy or at least a lot of mental engagement. It's not for nothing that people say the brain is the biggest sexual organ.

@18 (mydriasis): Yes.
@auntie grizelda: Happy holidays to you, too! Keep up the self-love!

Penthouse forum worked for me. Got me away from feeling self-conscious &anxious. Try different kinds of stories or videos, to try to find what might work for you. Coach/cheerleader? Pizza-delivery boy? Stranget in a parking garage?

And happy holidays everyone!

@Erica

Happy Holidays to you too!

@1: I'd say spend more time with yourself.

Worrying about this in the context of a relationship (and especially taking into account the "long story" without needing too much context there) is just complicating things.

Find out what's right for you first.

@1, vibrators don't do anything for me unless I'm already pretty aroused. And fuck having streams of water on my clit. I don't dig really intense sensation on my clit at all until right AFTER I come. if

It took me a long time to figure out what made the difference between "that's nice/this is fun/laying in a sweaty pile with you after we fuck is nice" and "aroused."

if you don't like vibrators, try the opposite... LESS sensation rather than more.

(a) turns out what I really like on my clit is nothing at all until I'm pretty aroused. I like lots of touching elsewhere (e.g. gently stroking the spot between my vag and my thigh. Or running a finger along the crest of my labia). TEASING. and then what generally makes me come is sensation so delicate as to not be counted as stimulation at all by many people.

(b) try reading about some kink. or "My secret garden." or erotica in general. read a bunch of stories till something seems interesting, follow that, and don't touch yourself at all until you start to feel something.

@32 and 35: I'm pretty sure "clit grapes" is meant to refer to any sort of cock ring with a knobbly bit that will rub against the clit during PIV. (Google searching "vibrating cock ring" will pull up some examples.)

@1: I would second the advice in 31 about trying masturbating (either manually or with a toy) over your underwear. Depending on the sturdiness of the underwear you prefer and the vigour of your attentions, you can put holes in your undergarments this this way, but it really diffuses the sensations in a way that might switch things up for you.

@1:
Try masturbation on your belly with the base of your hand pressed against your pubes- that diffuses the stimulation instead of just focussing on the clit. Also, switch hands- I can only masturbate to orgasm with my left hand.

@1,5
What happens when you lean up against a washing machine on spin cycle? Does that bother your clit, or does it feel good? I ask because that is a deeper kind of vibration than a tickly vibrator.

Also, yeah, I get that twitch in my vulva or clitoris. Kind of like it's contracting or recoiling in a weird way.

If I were you, I would do exactly what you are doing. Concentrate on what does give you pleasure. Orgasms are very nice, but I didn't have one until I was 34, courtesy of a Magic Wand, which I had to apply through layers of fabric in order for it not to feel painful. But I look back on all the sex I had before that, and it was all wonderful sex. Sex didn't get better for me when I started having orgasms.

I know what you mean by "sexual pleasure" but I think sexual enjoyment, which is what you have, is much more important.

Here's a question for you: What, if anything, makes you juicy? Are there any events or scenes that make your vulva get all puffy and your underwear all wet? In short, do you experience arousal?

I just wanted to second basically everything nocutename said(especially @12 and 16). Women's orgasms require much more mental focus. It might be just figuring out words or phrases that turn you on and thinking about them during sex, like a mantra. Maybe even just thinking about how good what you are doing feels.

@37 Thank you! I was worried I'd have to actually walk into a sex toy store and say "Excuse me, Miss. I'd like some clit grapes, please" just to see if I wanted some. And for some reason when I heard the phrase I imagined a clamp with a detachable set of beads of various weights.

One thing I'd like to stress is position! Personally, in some positions it's really easy for me to come from intercourse alone and in others I need extra stimulation. But even if you're bored of masturbating you should keep it up. Just make sure to add variety, otherwise your body won't register the same level of arousal and you'll have to keep up-ing the ante to get any kind of response. So try having at least three different techniques of getting off and get into different erotic media. Indie/Art movies (Henry and June is fucking ridiculous and has really good acting), yaoi, romantic novels (horrible writing, but they must work cause they sell), anything written by Anne Rice, internet porn and etc.

And when you do find something that works- don't use it all the time. Because besides having to increase said stimulation periodically to keep the "wow" factor there's also the danger of training your body to only come when that sensation is present.

But most of all relax. The hardest thing to do is orgasm if all you're doing is worrying about orgasming.

Some women have vaginal orgasms. Different type of orgasm from clitoral orgasms. Not resulting from stimulation to the clit, either direct or indirect. Resulting from stimulation of the cul de sac, cervix or G-spot.

These women fall into the 30% of women who can have orgasms from intercourse. Not all those women are coming just from handy clit placement.

Usually the women who are able to have vaginal orgasms are older than thirty, often have given birth, and have good PC muscle tone. But some younger women are naturally able to have vaginal orgasms.

Proper nutrition plays a role. My book, The Orgasmic Diet, gives pointers on how to develop this ability.

You do women a disservice by not mentioning this. Your old column is outdated. Yes, it is true, MOST women can only have clitoral orgasms and most of those women cannot orgasm from intercourse. But don't discount the experience of the minority of women who DO have vaginal orgasms.

@4 I can't stand direct skin to skin contact on my clit, so I touch myself through my underwear, anything more direct feels too intense and turns me off. I don't do penetration, so I don't know how to account for that. Maybe you could leave your underwear or some sort of lingerie/fabric on until you're about to come and only then have penetration? It's the only thing I can come up with right now.

@violetblue, @mydriasis, @dreaded: 30% who ... can't stand clitoral stimulation.

Based on my experience, I'd say it's more like 15% who can't stand clitoral stimulation, and 15% who haven't discovered how good it can feel when done a certain way.

Get in over your head. Sufficient arousal is all it takes to have an orgasm. Don't go for it until you feel it.

Get in over your head. Sufficient arousal is all it takes to have an orgasm. Don't go for it until you feel it. Find out what turns you on. Then get in over your head. Don't take the oxytocin after-effects seriously and you'll be fine.

"But some younger women are naturally able to have vaginal orgasms."

Hi.

@seandr

It's not that we necessarily dislike clit stimulation it's that it's kind of a waste of time if you can have a vaginal orgasm.

That's just my experience, though.

It's not the 30% who can't stand direct stimulation, it's the 30% who don't need direct clit stimulation because we can orgasm without it - some people still like it anyway.

@mydriasis: it's kind of a waste of time if you can have a vaginal orgasm.

Are you saying that vaginal orgasms feel better than clitoral orgasms, or that vaginal orgasms feel better than the kinda-good-feeling you sometimes get from clitoral stimulation?

I'm curious because I've never been with a woman who could have vaginal but not clitoral orgasms, and of those capable of both, none of them would have characterized clitoral orgasms as a "waste of time", even if the vaginal ones are more intense.

Besides, the nice thing about clitoral orgasms is that if you know how to use your hands, they can take a make-out session and make it a little more special.

Dan: Did you have to be a bitter dick to him, chastising him through half the article to give the otherwise good advice? (Besides for your own fun or the entertainment of the readers). He wrote because he wanted to improve. Your aggression was a bit misplaced.

@43- Masters and Johnson measured women's orgasms with an electronic device inserted in the vagina and didn't find vaginal and clitoral orgasms. It was like Myth-Busters for vages...they debunked that theory. An orgasm is an orgasm- rhythmic muscular contractions- clit or g-spot is just the means that make it happen.

I thought that the whole vaginal-vs-clitoral orgasm thing had been debunked--that all female orgasms (except G-Spot thingies) are actually clitoral.

Ah, AllisonM, our posts crossed. I know that when I have the G-spot thing it is totally different than an orgasm. It is pretty great, and I wouldn't dismiss it, but it is not an actual orgasm.

Most of the clitoris is internal, only a little bit shows externally. The structure branches into two parts which wrap around the vagina. A couple of women friends have told me that they get very different (but strong) kinds of orgasms from anal sex than from vaginal sex - anal stimulation hits different parts of the clitoral structure.

So if other routes to orgasm don't work for you - try anal sex (with a dick, dildo, vibrator, whatever) and see if that locates a more sensitive part of the clitoral structure for you.

@dreaded,

Speaking only as a non-clit holding member of the human race: My wife was well off hormonal contraceptives and always...on edge of something when she finally broke that "gotta pee" barrier to squirt. It was no accident it happened in a hotel after a fine meal & drinks, and followed a day of physical exertion (skiing); she finally got to just the right place and time. My awed and joyous response helped her to decide that what happened was a good thing. Of course I've found it to be a GREAT thing!

I sincerely hope for the best for all in the New Year & Merry Christmas to any that wish it!

Peace

@AllisonM: With all due respect to Masters and Johnson, the idea that you can measure the phenomenology of an orgasm with an "electronic device inserted in the vagina" is, um, naive to put it politely.

The complexity of the neural circuitry involved in orgasms, which includes the central nervous system and the brain, is beyond the grasp of contemporary neuroscience, and will probably remain so in our lifetimes, maybe forever. At best, we can say which modules of neurons are firing, but since a given module might involve millions of distinct circuits, that's really not saying very much.

Hell, as someone possessing the relatively unmysterious equipment of a male, the orgasms I get from fucking and blowjobs feel different. The former involves sensations throughout my lower body, whereas the sensations from latter are focused around my cock. (Still, I wouldn't say the former is necessarily more pleasurable than the latter, since pageantry and teasing go a long way for me.) If Masters and Johnson tell me I'm experiencing exactly the same thing, well, no, I'm not.

@51: Not to speak for mydriasis, but I think you focussed more on the "waste" part of her statement when it's really the "time" part that I think is more relevant. It's not that clitoral orgasms aren't enjoyable- I certainly enjoy them heartily. It's just that it's more efficient (time-wise) to have sex and both have an orgasm from the same activity, even if it's not simultaneous. This is especially true if a vaginal orgasm takes less time to make happen than a clitoral one (which probably isn't true for every woman but is true for some).

Don't get me wrong, I don't think efficiency is the best goal for sex. But if one has a high enough libido, it definitely becomes a concern.

@dreadedwheat: I think you're in the wrong headspace when you're masturbating- the twitching, the gotta pee feeling, the kind of feelings of discomfort you describe are all the physical sensations of getting there and being stimulated. But you need to be lost in thoughts about something. I can get there from thinking about holding all the tension that's building and getting excited for the release, but I've had an orgasm, so I know the release is coming. You should try to find a fantasy that makes you want to keep building the anticipatory feelings until you can't take it any longer and have to release.

If you have a lot of trouble getting into the headspace, you actually might want to try Viagra, since some women actually seem to have luck with that in terms of getting aroused enough.

I don't like it if men are always told to stimulate the clit directly, because that is something that feels very uncomfortable for me unless I am very relaxed and aroused.
Just the same, I feel that vibrators are pushed too much like magic pills at women who just aren't sure what they like (yet).

But just the same, why do so many women still sound like an orgasm by penetration is superior?

IMO, it is much more helpful to women (and men) just to be told about every one's personal experiences and preferences without value judgments or pushing a pseudo-scientific diet.

@53 Masters and Johnson were WRONG. I'm no discounting their research, but we have moved on. The issue is by no means settled.

http://www.issm.info/news/sex-health-hea…

Personally, as a woman who can have both kinds, the sensation of the orgasms themselves are entirely different.

Men also have the ability to have these two types of orgasms. The traditional ejaculation orgasm corresponds to a woman's clitoral orgasm. But some men, with practice, can have prostate orgasms that do not result in ejaculation. I am acquainted with a man who is able to have many dozen prostate orgasms in a row, just as I am able to have many dozen vaginal orgasms in a row.

@55 Your G-spot thing is not an orgasm yet. Vaginal orgasms are much trickier to have--you need a lot of things going right--the right nutrition, the right PC muscle tone, the right neurotransmitter balance. Personally I believe that vaginal orgasmic ability is predicated on eating a diet similar to a bountiful paleo diet--an evolutionary mechanism to ensure lots of childbirth during times of plentiful food.

You said you didn't have an orgasm until your thirties. I'm sure that clitoral stimulation felt pleasant before you gained that ability, but you were probably wondering why everyone though clitoral stimulation was such a big deal. Same thing with vaginal orgasms.

Marrena, Your link is an article where "six experts revisit the debate and offer fresh perspectives in a series of essays." It goes on to mention research done on the g-spot and it's possible purposes, and the clit, and how they both function in orgasms, and how some women can have orgasms without stimulation at all. Which is all cool and none of us debate any of that, I don't think. The thing is, that idea that vaginal and clitoral orgasms are different, and that the vaginal ones are better, had by more mature women, ect; that idea isn't new at all. Sigmund Freud came up with that gem about a hundred years ago. It doesn't seem to be true according to the research. Regardless of where you get your stimulation, an orgasm is the same thing- a series of vaginal muscle contractions, nervous system activation and chemical processes. Telling women to exercise their pc muscles, go on some trendy diet and wait to get older and more mature, that's being part of the problem.

@63: Sorry, Marrena, but I'm perfectly aware of what I'm feeling and what I'm not feeling when I speak of my G-Spot thing. I called it a "thing," to differentiate it from a clitoral orgasm. It's some kind of orgasm, and it comes with squirting and a feeling of release, and it is a wonderful thing, but it isn't the same as a clitoral orgasm, and while I enjoy it, if I had to choose, I prefer the other kind.

Also, please don't presume to tell me how I felt when I was anorgasmic.

Lastly, and thanks for your concern, my PC muscles are nicely toned, and I don't want to buy your book.

I realize that it's de rigueur here on the Savage Love comment thread for people to project their own issues onto letter writers, but please don't do it to me. Thank you.

AllisonM: Marrena isn't just suggesting that women go on some sort of trendy diet (although she did mention Paleo); she's hawking her book, as she does here virtually every time the subject of female orgasm comes up.

But I agree with the gist of what you're objecting to: that idea that still persists that clitoral orgasms are somehow inferior to vaginal ones, that every woman should strive to attain the goal of the vaginal orgasm. It's irritating when most women are never going to be able to orgasm that way (unless vaginal orgasms count if there is a little finger-assistance during intercourse), and a very useless distinction to make. It also has the ability to make many women feel inadequate.

When I read a letter from someone like Dreadedwheat, I'm pretty sure she'd be happy to take that "inferior," "inadequate,""immature" "time-wasting" "non-simultaneous" clitoral orgasm if it was available to her.

@64, 65: I started having vaginal orgasms fairly regularly once I passed 40, never before 25 or so, and they are meh. Different, with a deeper focus, but far less intense or pleasurable than clitoral. Had I spent years working on my diet and such in an attempt to bring on this one true goal of *real* sexual ecstasy, I would be pretty damn disappointed.

For what it's worth, I think it helps to think of the G-spot and clit as connected by an interior line of sensitive tissue, and the exact wiring of that tissue varies in each woman--whether stimulation to both ends is arousing or most of the relevant nerve endings ended up at one end or the other. Men, take her word (or nonverbal cues) for which wants your attention, and how rough or gentle to make that.

Ugh, Nocutename, I saw the part about her book, I got in a hurry and forgot to include a snark about that.

Dreadedwheat: an unregistered user upthread mentioned marijuana, and I have to add that it's worth a try, in addition to, not as a substitute for, all the other stuff you want to start trying. Many people find it a true aphrodisiac.

Dear dreadedwheat, You asked for ways in which you may feel sexual pleasure. I can only tell you what I do. Purchase a shower head with a hose that has a variety of different sprays. Using warm water and a not too hard spray, massage the vaginal and clitoral area with water. As you begin to feel a sensation, increase the spray pressure, and continue to spray the V & C areas. Increase the spray pressure until you achieve orgasm. It works for me every time. You can also change the temperature of the water for maximum stimulation.

@28 EricaP: Happy holidays! WHAT is it about (my) seeing Brad Pitt in skin-tight Levi's and a Stetson?! Oof!

@53, AllisonM: Even if clitoral and vaginal orgasms both produce the same measurable physical reactions, it doesn't mean they feel the same to the woman. I'm a big fan of science, but let's be aware of its limitations.

@Dreadedwheat: Alguna_rubia and others are right that your problem is probably psychological. When the sensations reach the point of making you loose control of your voice, body, or ejaculate, you perceive that to be unpleasant because you're afraid of loosing control. On one of the HBO or Showtime sex specials years ago there was a non-orgasmic woman who actually had electrodes surgically implanted in her spine to stimulate her the way vaginal stimulation does. The artificial stimulation was no different to her than the physical. At some point, she stopped it because it was unpleasant.

You need to push yourself beyond what's familiar and completely comfortable. Masturbate in private so you don't have any fears about what others think of you. Contradict your fear. Remember that you can't hurt yourself with vaginal stimulation. Try to let go of your physical control. Relax, but don't try to hold still. Arrange things so you can make noise without anyone hearing you; scream into a pillow if you have to. Masturbate in the tub or shower so you don't have to fear making a mess. Watch amateur porn and mimic what you see to gradually defuse the fear of climaxing. It'll take time, but you'll get there.

And if you like pegging guys, you may be a dominant hetero female, a dominatrix type. I'd suggest fantasies where you're in control of a guy. While masturbating with a dildo, imagine having a guy tied face up on a bed and riding his cock. Have you tried that with a BF?

I didn't say they were exactly the same, @75, I have them originating from both places and I get that they feel different. I just don't find that particular segment of the conversation conducive to the problem being discussed. It's like someone is writing a letter asking how they could better enjoy massages, and people start arguing about the difference between a foot massage and a back massage, and I point out that the foot/back distinction is irrelevant, as they both involve muscles being squeezed, which some people find pleasurable under some conditions, but not others. Which is all fine and dandy until someone jumps in pushing a diet book and an exercise regime, based on the debunked theories of a misogynistic historical figure. Also, I'm feeling a little bitchy in general, and ranting is a stress reliever for me.

In comment 62, Marrena wrote: Men also have the ability to have these two types of orgasms. The traditional ejaculation orgasm corresponds to a woman's clitoral orgasm. But some men, with practice, can have prostate orgasms that do not result in ejaculation. I am acquainted with a man who is able to have many dozen prostate orgasms in a row, just as I am able to have many dozen vaginal orgasms in a row.

That's true. Non-ejaculatory orgasms in men come from learning to delay ejaculation for hours. It's a tantric thing. One of the big misconceptions that stops men from learning to last is that it's a sacrifice a guy makes to increase her pleasure. Actually it enhances the man's pleasure too.

I'm not sure the two types of orgasms are comparable across genders, though. Female squirting isn't even comparable to men's ejaculation since women who squirt can usually do it multiple times. (I did hear of a guy once who had multiple ejaculations... he died. -- Sorry, old joke.)

I can only speak for myself, but men can ejaculate multiple times. I *haven't had sperm counts done or analyzed the content of the second or third but I imagine there are less poliwags like things in the second and even less in the third.

Orgasms can very widely in intensity, and I think the intensity of the wave and shape of the wave may be responsible for women claiming there is a distinct difference between a vaginal or clitoral orgasm, they are just different waves

I would be very weary about any asshole that claims to have any "scientific" info about any human experience. Human experience can be enormously manipulated because so much of any experience can be psychological or drastically changed from positive to negative with nothing physical changing about the occurrence and the only change being psychologically.

Psychology is a shit science, and shouldn't be included in the umbrella of disciplines commonly known as "scientific" as it depends on data that really needs to be quantifiable, yet the data is largely how a person "feels" which is like the weather, but a thousand times worse, esp when idiot males opinion are included with that data.

Psychologists doctorate degrees should be just like any other phd, one of the most amusing things I come across in life, is psychiatrists who demand to you address them as "doctor"

Human beings would be the most pathetic species living if one species were allowed two blue ribbons, and lucky for them, pathetic was a close second to stupidity, in which the category had already been changed and given the label of "humorous"

so that both males and psychiatrist could live with themselves, although I am not sure we should be pandering to such *assholic asshole

* not sure if "haven't had" is kosher grammer and I am thinking the just "haven't" is more concise and grammatically correct, but if I am not going to correct the spelling of grammer, I figure fuck it, I'll just leave as is

*not sure if assholic is a word, but I didn't have a thesaurus handy but I was going for a word that conveyed "a person with a chronic problem, said problem being, being an asshole

one other thought,

Hey, Dan:

why didn't you tell him that if he is claiming to have a complex, and that that is the reason he is attempting to pass off as the reason for going soft, should the day ever *cum (no pun intended) that he chose to be honest with himself and the advice columnist, and what the advice columnist forgot to mention

quit fucking around and making up complexes which don't exist (translation= quite fucking other people and/or masturbating as often as you are, it would save us all a lot of time because you wouldn't be wasting your time writing in for advice and I wouldn't be wasting my time answering such an idiot question)

on a side note, Dan, if I wanted to be called a faggot, would I actually be required to suck dick first or could I just wear expensive shoes around a bunch of closeted homosexual bigots?

*typo, should had written "come" if it really was not intended to be a pun

I never said vaginal orgasms were better than clitoral orgasms. The only thing "better" about vaginal orgasms is that they level the playing field for women when it comes to casual sex. What's better is for a woman to have options during sex--gaining the ability to have vaginal orgasms.

I've been talking about gaining vaginal orgasmic ability before I wrote my book, while I was writing my book, while I was promoting my book, and now, when my book is available for sixty cents used on amazon. I'm not "hawking" my book when it is so easily available for so little money where I don't make any profit whatsoever. Gaining this ability changed my life, and I feel like I owe it to other women to keep talking about it.

Maybe this link makes the science a little clearer:

http://www.livescience.com/19579-vaginal…

If the two different types of female orgasm activate two different parts of the brain, then they are different orgasms.

Now if you want to not call vaginal orgasms "orgasms" and call them something else, that might take some of the controversy away. However, you would lose sight of the fact that vaginal orgasms are sexually satisfying in their own right, and great sex can be had without needing to have a clitoral orgasm every time. At my age, I can usually only have a clitoral orgasm every day or two. It's handy that I can have vaginal orgasms, so that I can fully enjoy sex without a sense of lingering frustration when my boyfriend wants to have sex a couple times a day.

Dirtclustit,

Psychiatrists and psychologists are different animals. Psychiatrists are indeed MDs.

From wikipedia: “A psychiatrist is a physician who specializes in psychiatry. A psychiatrist specializes in the diagnosis and treatment of mental disorders. Psychiatrists are medical doctors who must evaluate patients to determine whether or not their symptoms are the result of a physical illness, a combination of physical and mental, or a strictly psychiatric one.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychiatris…

A psychologist is *not* an MD and in any setting where they are working with MDs will *not* be called “doctor” because the difference is so important. In an academic setting, PhDs of any discipline may be addressed as “doctor” without confusion.

Bullshit they are medical doctors who specialize in mental disorders, psychiatrists are psychologists who've gotten their Phd in psychology.

I am well aware that all Phd's are doctorate degrees, but even my friend --- who has a Phd from Juiliard --- gets very angry if I introduce him as "doctor so & so" because even if he was a psychiatrist and not a person who paints houses and goes on unemployment for four months every winter and a doctorate in music theory, when the person I introduced them to says,

"Really? what kind of a doctor are you?"

even if he did say

"I am a doctor of psychiatry"

people who get the facts from accurate sources would reply

"Oh, I thought you meant a real doctor"

to which they always reply

"I can prescribe drugs"

and they get answered with

"Good for you! lets see you try to prescribe anything both anti-depressants limp dick, so shut the fuck up until you can prescribe pain pills or start calling me Your Magesty, otherwise fuck off professor"

@Dirtclustit.

I don't know where you live but in Canada a psychiatrist is a medical doctor. Period.

Psychologists are not MDs but they usually have a masters or PhD.

As far as I know, a PhD does not give anyone prescribing capabilities.

*scrolls up*

Someone already tried to correct you?

Man, you dumb motherfucker. You have a whole internet out there where you could EASILY google "medical specialties" and see that psychiatry is one of them, or any of the numerous easy ways to verify this fact - but you decided to be wilfully ignorant anyway? FFS.

myd @88:

I share the sentiment, but your choice of words is at 86's level.

boy is my face red, it turns out most if not all psychiatrists do practice under degrees known as MD or medical doctor

and if you try to look up psychiatrists in the yellow pages it won't be listed in the Ps sequence, except to note that it can be found under the Ph as in physicians and surgeons sections of the alphabetically sequenced index pages

I was wrong

and I was wrong to insult an entire industry when I should have kept my insults directed at the few I intended to insult, or else not at all

Assoholic.

@migrationist

Because I used one profanity? In a Savage Love comments section?

Really?

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

@Dirt

I'm glad you looked it up!

Hey Dirtclustit, join the club! I’m wrong a lot. In the right company it’s almost fun because it means I’ve learned something.

@myd:
No, I don't mind profanity. It was the tone of the whole post. But I do have to retract: it seems to have gotten through much better than any other post directed at dirtclusit before.

@84: Great sex can be had without needing to have a clitoral orgasm every time. At my age, I can usually only have a clitoral orgasm every day or two.
Did it occur to you that you are describing your own personal experience and preferences, rather than the template all women should be trying to fit themselves into?

Vaginal orgasms more pleasurable for you? That's you.
Clitoral orgasm possible only every few days? That's you.
Sex is just frustrating if you don't have an orgasm? That's you.

One could argue that not being capable of frequent clitoral orgasm means you are the one doing sex wrong wrong wrong, and prescribe a diet and exercise program to correct you.

In defense of Marrena she is just trying to help, even if she's trying to solve something that may or may not be broken in the most condescending way possible.

Now I do have one thing to say- stop hawking that paleo diet bullshit. I realize that not everyone can enjoy the benefits of dairy and grains, but demonizing them when they provide cheap sources of very real nutrition is just arrogant and silly.

In the vaginal vs clitoral orgasms, I will say that yes they feel different, but no that doesn't necessarily mean one's better than the other.

However, I really don't see it as an issue to get defensive or preachy about. It's like getting into a war over whether fudge with or without nuts is the ONLY true fudge.

Plus, sometimes it isn't just my input that determines which one I get so I think there should always be an effort to be gracious. Cause at the end of the day an orgasm is an orgasm.

@97: Cause at the end of the day an orgasm is an orgasm. Yes. Exactly. It seems to me, in regard to Dreadedwheat's letter, that she'd be happy to have either kind.

Really Now..., for you an orgasm may be an orgasm. For me, a vaginal orgasm almost always leaves me feeling cheated and about half the time, very blue. There’s a reason I can have a bunch of them: there’s no closure.

@99(Alison Cummins): Okay so for you, an orgasm isn't always an orgasm (this is beginning to sound like an old Vaudeville routine).

I guess that the point is that there are different sensations/physiological responses that can happen to different women through a variety of different stimulation and that are appreciated differently from woman to woman.

So rather than trying to force our preferences on each other, maybe we should all just chime in with tips for Dreadedwheat (and any other women who are either anorgasmic or just want to add to their repertoire) about what works for each of us to have the kind of orgasm we prefer.

I can outpost all of you. :D

When I talk in generalities, I am attacked. When I post my own experience, I am attacked. When I post current scientific research, I am attacked. I am amused that nocutename is slamming me for posting too much--at least I don't italicize the whole comments thread!

My main goal in posting here, to show that Dan's advice is full of baloney, has been fulfilled. Y'all have been coming out of the woodwork describing your own experiences of non-clitoral orgasms. If even in such a small sample size as this there is that much exception to his bogus assertion that the only type of female orgasm is a clitoral orgasm, it shows that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

I'm a member of the community here. I read every Slog post, comment frequently, and only mention my book when Dan posts bogus info.

BTW, my orgasmic diet is not the Paleo diet. But if one were eating a Paleo diet by necessity because of being a pre-agriculture hunter-gatherer, having a plentiful food supply would automatically create the optimal neurotransmitter balance for vaginal orgasms.