Columns Aug 20, 2014 at 4:00 am

Object Transference

Comments

109
Um, Dan? UGH is definitely objectifying his trans woman SO. (Not girl. If she's above the age of consent, she's not a girl anymore. She's a woman. Please?) It seems apparent to me that UGH is really objectifying "teh trans" as one vector sum and that's a wee bit disquieting, wouldn't you say? Note lines like: "I hate my masculine features and like girl clothes and want to be "cute"." Hmm, sounds like he identifies, sort of, but only if he can be "cute." Then he goes on to say that he's not comfortable with either himself having female genitalia or with his SO having female genitalia. He doesn't want to seem like he's objectifying, he just thinks trans "girls" are "real cuties." With or without a penis? He doesn't say, but hey, that's the pink elephant in the room, isn't it? Is he attracted to her because she has a penis and will she cease to be attractive to him if she has the surgeries?

Apart from my annoyance at his asking for validation of his objectification of trans women, the word "conflicted" does cross my mind. I was kinda conflicted too at that age. But I'm seven years past transition, a late-stage trans woman who dithered because I was "conflicted" and paid the price. So did at least two of my SO's. Not good and my karma took a beating on both counts. I know theirs did, too. I wonder how important karma is to a conflicted youth who wants to be "cute" and wants his SO to be a cute "girl" with a penis? Time warp forward twenty years and it would be interesting to see just how well that mindset served UGH or any of his future partners.

Conflicts with one's self are the responsibility of the conflicted, not one's partner. Nor is it particularly ethical to impose that conflict on a loved one's life decisions. Parker Malloy is perfectly correct: these are not good signs to read and it might be best if UGH moved on to a nice cross-dresser who has no intention of ever having SRS. (Is it acceptable to use GRS instead? The surgeries don't really change one's innate sexuality, you know. Or perhaps you already do. Apologies if so) Then UGH can have his (warning: trigger word and used specifically as a derogative toward UGH and not professional sex-workers or trans women at all) "she-male" fantasy and everyone is happy except his former SO who would naturally feel pretty unhappy that a piece of flesh was the only thing her former boyfriend really liked about her. My hope for her is that she has a support system somewhat more reliable than UGH, because, well: ugh. I wouldn't trust him with change from the grocery store, much less my identity, either gender or sexual.

I'm a bit disturbed by this letter, partly because of UGH's denial of objectification (although we must give him points for at least asking about it. He still needs a little therapy to untwist that conflict), and partly because I empathize with UGH's SO. Too many of us late-transitioners waited because our loved ones liked our junk just the way it was and mountains of suffering resulted. Perhaps it's not so black and white for the younger trans folks today, but it seems rather presumptuous of UGH.
110
@107: I didn't mean they should bring the sex aspect into it. More along the lines of, "That crazy Joe--just like him to pull a prank like that on us after we were so kind to let him stay here while his apartment was being fumigated. Ha, ha, what a card!"
111
Yeah, what a card! @110. But it's a lie. And why should LW and his wife have to lie about their lives. They have nothing to cover up. And such a response is weakening.. It's only when you get to the other side of standing your ground, that you realize how liberating it is. Yes, there are risks, but not being in your adulthood
Esp with ones mother, means you are still stuck in an old story.
Mothers job is done; time she accepted that and adjusted her perspective towards her daughter.
112
I was married briefly with a snooping conservative MIL from hell.. To help define "Conservative," when we started dating (in college, age 21-22) the first thing out of the parents mouth was the Purity Speech, and they also forced their 20yo daughter into therapy when they found out she was online dating, then three years later didn't attend the wedding when she married a perfectly decent person that they didn't approve of. Anyway. To define "Snooping," the parents owned the single wide he/we lived in during college (go Cougs!) so they felt entitled to go "do work on the property" willy nilly without telling us which caused all kinds of conflict but the most memorable was when shortly before we were married, MIL found my [very small and modest compared to what own now] collection of sex toys and was seriously disturbed. This box o' toys was inside an old black & decker iron box which was in a moving box - she claimed the moving box was leaking (wasn't). For some softcore revenge I signed up her address to receive a relentless stream of Victoria's Secret catalogs (trust me... this was the least sinister of all the things I wanted to do to this evil woman! But I refrained) I am also gratified that she has to live with the image of me, her son, and a fluorescent purple butt plug. Most of all, I'm ecstatic to now be partnered with an awesome GGG man with a sane and chill mother \o/
113
Several of you (cf @89) seem to be having difficulty with the weird-pairings thing, which does come up in explicit fanfic and in quite a bit of self-published e-books on Amazon (I've seen the wolf-shifters advertised, which tend to tap into werewolf stories, but also hedgehogs and cuttlefish). And there have been robot-love and alien-sex SF books for a long time (Tanith Lee's _Silver Metal Lover_ is a good example).

Apart from being mildly amused at seeing an example of Rule 34 ("if it exists, there is porn of it"), I don't tend to read them because of erotic desire for the object, i.e. it's not straightforward bestiality or paraphilia. If I pick up one of these books it tends to hit the same reactions that make me read speculative fiction in the first place -- this isn't real, so how far can the author take me to visit something really different in my head? How might alien sex differ from Earth-human sex? How sapient or sentient might a robot be? How do animals see the world? (I remember reading Richard Adams' _Watership Down_ as a proto-feminist child, and being equally convinced and infuriated that all the characters were males, and the females were treated as resources). I was disappointed when I read a review of the hedgehog shifter novel, and the poor old urchin had the whole weight of Alpha Male Syndrome on his prickly shoulders, as both an Asshole Hero and a hedgehog. I don't like it in romance, and I don't like it in lycanthropic/other romance (the whole Alpha/Beta thing doesn't appear to be real anyway).

But believing the impossible, suspending the disbelief, and exercising the empathy muscles, by going somewhere really different and entering a really different mind -- that's what speculative fiction is all about! I'd probably rather see it policed by people saying whether or not it's badly done than people pointing and laughing every time they see something different done at all.
114
@113 - Oh my god, I think I read the hedgie story last night! Beyond the ridiculousness of the idea, I found it to be a bit more well-written than I was expecting. Not particularly exciting, though, especially the characterisation of the were. He sure as hell had a giant-ass chip stuffed up that prickly butt of his... Pfft! And I felt that the authors just sort of tossed certain things out in the wind that really should have been expanded on. But on the whole, I enjoyed it. It certainly gave me a giggle or two. :)

I agree with you though, about the purpose of speculative fiction, in all of its forms. I find it endlessly fascinating the things that people come up with, and some random ideas bloom into truly exciting or thought-provoking concepts. Although shifter hedgies and cuttlefish are a bit harder to swallow than others...
115
@114

Bless you! I've had a number of conversations on LJ with people entirely convinced that one could only enjoy a romance with an erotic component if one wanted to shag the object of it. I think I was the only one there that was quite prepared to read 'different' stuff as speculative fiction, whether I found the sex scenes erotic or not.

I would have been perfectly prepared to enjoy the hedgie romance if I hadn't realised from the review that it skewed so heavily Alpha-Male. It's probably easier to manage that trope if the hero isn't five inches tall some of the time.
116
@115 - And bless you too, my child... :)

Yeahhh, no. I often read stuff that one may label as 'erotica' that I don't find erotic at all. But just because I didn't get off doesn't mean that I didn't enjoy it. I've never been able to navigate the LJ community to my satisfaction anyway. Everything seems so fractured there, and maybe it was just because a certain subset was always so vocal, but it seemed a bit judge-y. Maybe it's because I'm a relative newcomer...

Yeah, I definitely got the feeling that he was a wee bit pissed off at being so - well - wee. Grr, big bad Alpha come beat on everyone who looks at my woman, grr. *shift* squeak scrabble whimper squeak... I'm fairly convinced that the writers made him a hedgehog just so he could burrow into the leading lady's voluminous cleavage.
117
Why not tell MIL that the objects in the guest room drawer belong to a gay friend who stays over on weekends sometimes. Tell her you hadn't even looked in that drawer. As for the texts, they're nothing at all except the reason that MIL will not be welcome at your home again. Snooping around and trying to break up a marriage is un-christian and will not be tolerated. Agree to dinner at her house once a month or so (or less).
118
Woofb and sanguisuga, what is the "LJ community?"
119
nocutename, that's LiveJournal. I'm not entirely certain, but I believe that there are a number of 'communities' that people can share their love of various things, be it pop culture or pop music or what have you. These are also referred to as 'fandoms'. For example, my particular flavour is BBC Sherlock. That's the fandom that I write for.

I think that fanfiction.net came out of LJ, but I'm not sure. The format seems somewhat similar, anyhow. Lately, they've been scrubbing some of the more explicit content, so I've been posting on Archive Of Our Own, also known as AO3. The site is in beta, but I find it much easier to search and post on. And it just seems friendlier, somehow.
120
@119: Thanks for the explanation.
123
Mr. Ven - do you know about this game (describd by a friend of a FB friend of mine)?

The Professor of English was astounded I was off to spend my evening playing a game called 'Marrying Mr Darcy'. 'With women...and gay men?'
'Umn, not gay to my knowledge.'
What transpired was a quite difficult strategy card game, in which the winner (male) thoroughly enjoyed role-playing Caroline Bingley as Queen Bitch, and annoyingly won: snapped up Mr Darcy!
I was Mary Bennett and narrowly avoided eloping with Wickham. Even funnier, Lydia nearly got hitched to Mr Collins.
All we needed were fans and cucumber sandwiches. However deconstructed banoffy pie (had no time to make the pastry) was an acceptable accompaniment.
My conclusion: that getting married in the Austen era probably was a quite difficult strategy game.
124
@nocutename - I was finally able to sit down and read the rest of your story! I enjoyed it very much, and found the last line to be particularly evocative. It did make me wonder if they ever broke down and got dirty together rather than all alone on opposite sides of the wall. Maybe after Mom and Stepdad get divorced, hm?
125
@sanguisuga: Thanks. I like the last line, too. But a last line makes the story, to me, complete, and I don't ever have an "after" thought out. My stories are meant to be little snapshots, rather than ongoing representations of real life, so I suppose that any reader is free to imagine "what came next or later" if s/he wants.

For myself, I don't imagine these two ever would get dirty together or even acknowledge the mutual masturbation. And in a few years, once the stepdaughter moves away from home (she was 16 in the first written version, but no one will publish erotica if a character is under 18, and I think the story loses something of excitement and verisimilitude by making her 18, but on the other hand it's in print), I think this stuff stops happening and is never, ever referred to by either of them. But that's part of what makes the scenario hot for me. So imagine away at will!
127
Ms Thinking - I had not heard of it; it sounds most intriguing.

I have occasionally contemplated The Jane Austen Bridge Club and what would go into the writing of such a work. There are so many disagreeable partners - and for so many reasons.
129
Is it just me, or is humanity rapidly dying out?
130
...or is it already dead?
131
Hunter78,

Good summary this week except for glossing over explanations of really offensive behaviour with “talk of objectification.”

I loved @102. Sorry I didn’t mention it at the time.
132
Yes, you've been a bit of a honey this week, Hunter. Defending a woman's agency..
Let's hope LW got her on board and they both fronted Mother.
133
There's been plenty of scholarship on slash fiction within cultural, media, gender, etc studies. I looked for awhile but couldn't find to link an interesting analysis of the genre I read a few years back. The commentator's suggestion was basically that comparing the homoerotic relationships depicted between men in the primarily female-authored slash fiction genre to gay male pornography created primarily by men is... well, not the right comparison. She argued that slash has more in common with the classic "forbidden love" trope which in the past, heterosexual women have had more ways of expressing through male/female stories, such as lady/servant pairings when cross-class relationships were more taboo.

Having said that, probably 95% of all erotica you find online - gay, straight, bi, slash, alien, whatever - is gonna be crap because 95% of everything online is crap.
134
Sorry, been offline a bit, missed your comments on Pups...

@LavaGirl 147

You did a good job if "they love you at least most of the time" as you put it. As far as I know, psychologists ask for "good enough mothers", as a truly perfect mother is imperfect, because she just doesn't leave any room for her kids to compete with, or to improve on her when grown-ups. Mine won't experience that :-)

@mydriasis 148

Being frightened by single motherhood just shows how absolutely sane you are.

The only person I've ever met, who said she had actually planned from before the conception to be a single mother, was a raving egomaniac. At 6 months her child was mostly unresponsive to external stimuli ; at 2 he was slow, clingy and went into a panic whenever she locked herself in the toilet, and she would not be told into speaking to him from inside, to allay his fears of her having disappeared ; at 3 she "found a father" for her son. So...
135
Continuing on Pups :

@auntie_grizelda 160

Thank you so much for your warm appreciation. It means a lot to me.

Actually, being a single mother is not as thankless a job as being a spouse and mother in an abusive marriage, so there's a silver lining...

I would suppose it's more thankless than being a single father ? We single mothers are not considered heroic for raising our kids at the expense of the nicer things of life - I'm told single fathers are, but is that really of any help in dealing with everyday life ?
136
@auntie grizelda 129/130

To cheer you up on current humanity : Django à la Creole 2008 (group funded when NOLA's Evan Christopher was awarded a residency in Paris, following hurricane Katrina) and Akebono 2013 : oriental and occidental music meeting and enjoying each other.
138
@135 & @136 sissoucat: Thank you so much for your kind responses and beautiful CD links! It is wonderful to hear from you. Congrats to Evan Christopher's Paris residency.

This week has had an unpleasant start for me. Forgive me in advance for wallowing in self-pity, but I feel that at least some of my resentment to those who turned me down is warranted.
I am now coping with the crushing disappointment of rejection for the second time in two years by the same pathetic group of elitist snobs---for something that is completely volunteer work. After focusing and working very hard on five challenging flute excerpts and three equally difficult piccolo solos this past year, I auditioned only to get openly snubbed by the local orchestral committee--again. I am strongly considering not applying again next year for their pristine sub list.
It's bad enough to not receive comments back from such a committee as to what could be worked on for the upcoming year's next auditions, but to immediately get the usual generic "I regret to inform you, blah, blah, blah......oh, but we wish you all the best in your future." Yeah, right---just like the standard junk-mail rejection letter from a "would be" employer. Now that my beloved music professor has resigned from her position with this pathetic organization, they are shamefully snubbing her, too, for no reason other than her no longer being "one of Them". Apparently my continued professional association with my professor automatically puts me on the same dung heap.

There must indeed be serious dissension among the ranks when three principal musicians from the woodwind section alone (including my own music professor, who has served as first chair soloist) are all exiting in unison. Despite all this, my professor has encouraged me to audition next year for the principal flutist / piccoloist seat that she has just vacated. I am so mad at this pathetic bunch of snobs running the auditions that I'd rather see their "prestigious" orchestra go broke, and the historical venue that houses their concert seasons crumble to the ground.

Anyway, thank you, sissoucat, Dan, and other commenters reading this for allowing me the chance to vent my current frustrations. What's worse, my equally pitiful excuses for siblings would only eat this kind of rejection shit up. My very successful brother has his own Google profile. His limited given biographical information (i.e. : DOB, city, state, career history, etc.) may have been all the network had to work with. However, I do find it somewhat puzzling that my brother failed to even mention our parents if not us sisters, in his biography.

*sigh* Thank you, sissoucat, Dan, and everybody. It has been a very challenging summer for me.
At least I'm healthy and strong enough to deal with all the bullshit blowing up in my face.


139
@99 Lavagirl - I thought you had a husband? Does this work equally well?:

If it was me, I'd front that woman so fast. I'd give my husband the chance, quickly to get on board. If not, so be it( I'm trusting my motivation is to look after my husband, my home, my fucking life). I would be polite, but firm.

@137 Objectifying is focusing more on parts than a person. It can be bad because the parts belong to people that also want to be happy and require consent and reciprocation to "use" the attractive objects. When people can divorce sex urges from social impulses, you can potentially get criminally antisocial behavior. (Playing a zero sum game is not ideal, cooperation can net higher gains. But forgetting that you're playing with another person can be dangerous. No game theory geeks around?)

I agree that UGH's on a fine line since he likes her penis as is but she doesn't. He needs to be mature enough to accept whatever she decides without pressuring her (to keep focus that it's absolutely her body) or cut her loose to find an accepting lover.

And another vote for gay porn, my old friend, especially sexy vids of actors who seemed very into their partners. Straight porn has gotten better (for example sensual or massage porn can focus on arousing the woman), but still no "hot guy's various body parts driving a clit wild inside and out until she squirts on him" equivalent porna. Someday...
140
Philophile@139; no, no husband no more.
I was being the LW who is a man. If the reverse had been presented to Dan, and the LW was a woman, then yes, your version would be fine.
141
Aunty G, A musician- be proud , very proud of yourself. Maybe try another way to work? Advertise and get an ensemble together?
Siblings. Yeah, I have two sisters and we don't speak. I've just let em go, even though it would be nice to have sisters as friends.
142
sissoucat, hope your beautiful children cover you in many hugs and kisses.
143
@140 Ok cool, if that would have worked in your marriage. I've seen things sour when spouses can't negotiate a way to deal with loved ones.

Hopefully NITC's wife will agree to more reasonable terms than full disclosure. No need to traumatize MIL..
144
Ugh is right. #1 = Overly sensitive crap, typical of Seattle. Why do you have to feel you need to apologize for being attracted to someone's features?
145
OMG. I can't believe MIL is snooping so badly!! Phones??? Finding stuff in a drawer in your spare room is one thing, if she was staying there maybe?
But the rest, off the charts WRONG. Wow.
She needs a severe talking to.
Don't you dare take the tack that either of you are in the wrong, she's entirely the one that's wrong here. Entirely. She owes you, not the other way around. I don't care whose mom she is.. That's a fireable offense.

UGH, I think we all have our little things we like, and having a liking for trans women is nice. They need to feel loved and attractive too. So long as you're not just with her *because* she's trans. Do you love this woman anyway, and she just happens to be trans? That would be much, much happier.

My bf has gorgeous long brown hair, a real turn-on for me, I have always loved men with long hair, but that's not the WHY of why we are together. It's icing on an otherwise awesome cake.
146
@143. I never suggested full disclosure. I suggested that Mother/ MiL be confronted re her snooping.. They don't have to explain anything else as it's not any business of Mother/ MiL.. She can interpret her findings any bloody way she wants.
147
And yes, one has to be careful dealing with family. But this is their private sexual lives- no family member needs any insight on that or need interfere unless abuse is going on..
148
@141 LavaGirl: Thank you so much. I have at least gotten over the tear-shedding stage of bitter disappointment. Many would tell me that two consecutive rejections in two years is no big deal (Tony Bennett got turned down 49 times before his first night club gig in 1951, and he's an amazing international pop legend now), but this time is personal: my flute / piccolo professor has just had two big family losses within the last two weeks, and shouldn't be so cruelly shunned by her former colleagues like this.
Maybe the orchestra committee, however repulsively snooty, is inadvertently doing me a favor after all in that I'm NOT having anything to do with their organization. I like your idea of getting my own ensemble together!

Yeah----my much older controlling, manipulative sisters are best viewed from a safe distance. Living in separate counties seems to help.
@142: I second that to sissoucat!
149
@146-7 Agreed. I got the idea that Not in the Closet wanted to tell the full truth.
150
@auntie grizelda & LavaGirl

a thousand thanks <3
151
MIL doesn't need to be told anything. If she is asking she should be told "What happens in our bedroom/house is not your business." She can leave with what ever conclusions she has come to.
152
You must be referring to the object you stuff into your boyfriends ass then he transferences it to your ass. That is too nasty, probably has poop on it but then again you folks like to play in poop, don't you. Nasty.
153
Great pleaser for us.
Thanks for good post!

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