Holy crap FIRST!

And, uh, seconding Dan on the "card him". Will say no more.

I'm not sure how the Tea and Crumpets rule applies here, assuming the guy is at least 18 and she's following the Campsite Rule. Were I having "the best [sex] I have ever had" with an 18-year-old, I don't think I'd be too concerned about what she says to other people years down the road. And even if I were, that ship has already sailed. Might as well enjoy the best sex evar.

I've nothing in particular against 44/18 (and don't get the vapours over SS 24/17, which was common in my time when 18 was the drinking age and fake IDs often received a wink), but "the best ever", especially in conjunction with the humblebrag, has me concerned that she doesn't have the right frame of mind for this relationship. She hasn't done anything bad or wrong yet, but she likely needs to change paths, and sooner is better than later.

Dan's advice to VORE is spot on. She's far too inexperienced to fear being unable to enjoy sex without her fetish. There's a lot more to learn and explore than "insert tab A in slot B." And worst case scenario, she can edit together a highlight video from The Hobbit, Jurassic Park, and Jaws and watch it while her understanding boyfriend plows her.

First time I read this I thought it said "I have a vole fetish." And I thought to myself, "That's a new one. This is some classic Savage Love right here." Then I read a bit further and soon found myself longing for those simpler times when people were horny for rodents.

Small town girl might have luck with Fetlife too.

Something you missed for VORE: If you do a bot of digging, there is at least one company out there that makes sex toys for vorarephiles. Giant mouths/heads with a throat to be 'swallowed' by.

@5 voles -- you disgust me, LateBloomer.

Now, give me a nice, innocent church mouse to deflower...

@5: LateBloomer, I want to buy you a drink!

@7: Since you've already done the digging, would you mind providing a link? When this was the SLLOTD, there were two other people that wrote in to say that this was their interest or fetish, too. I suspect that several people might be interested in seeing or getting those mouth/throat sex toys.
What a great idea, in any case, if Voreism is your thing.

Hunter, just a case of YKINMKBYKIOK. No need to start with the whole "lw isn't straight" theme that you're harping on these days, and certainly no reason to suggest that her parents "kick her out of the house"!!

I think we need some kind of addendum to Rule #34: If the kink exists, someone has made a toy you can use to experience your kink safely. (c.f. the vajankle... thing from the other day)

I'm amused at the idea of a Hobbit/Jaws/Jurassic Park voreporn mashup.

@11: I think this is one of those examples where the winkyface emoticon should have been included.

@11: I'm not so sure. I don't associate irony with Hunter in the way that I do with, say, seandr.

But I'll give it a shot:

@ Hunter @8: Were you being ironic when you said "Her parents need to kick her out of the house so she knows what real problems are like."

Also, Hunter, when you were however old and in your first sexual relationship, did you need to question your sexual orientation just because it was your first one?

@15 in continuation:

Hunter @14, Why do you say she's delusional? Because you don't "get" her fetish? I don't get it, either, but I understand that people have it. And I don't see why her having a fetish I don't understand, coupled with her youth and the fact that she's in her first sexual relationship suggests that she's delusional about her orientation to you.

What about "I'm a straight 18-year-old girl in my first sexual relationship" signals delusion to you?

Assuming most of us here would like to help VORE come to terms with her fetish and go on with her life, I’d suggest refraining from the one common thing that often devastates the fetisheee: Making fun of their fetish, even in a casual, non-malicious way.

As for AYA, the 44 yo woman with the 18 yo guy: I think she may have to take some precautions here, as Dan was right to point that the guy is likely to brag about this affair to his friends.

@2- I_Hate_Screen_Names may be covering this issue from a male POV, hypothetically involved with a younger woman, and doesn’t seem to worry about her talking about it. Things are often very different the other way around.

We don’t know where AYA lives. Is she in a small town where she will be humiliated once her friends or coworkers find out? And if she has any children, will they be teased?

That said, if these are non issues then I’d say go on and have fun.

@17 I disagree, it depends how you make fun.

Humiliation and shaming kinks = bad.

Gentle teasing "that's disgusting but MY kink is wholesome" = good humor that is positive.

Because we need to normalize kink and can do so by laughing about it. Everyone's kinks are freaking hilarious / silly / whatever (as long as consenting and non-damaging).

My two cents, good humor is @5 LateBloomer's voles. I leave SLOGgers to be the judge about my church mouse comment @9.

As a recently divorced 43 year old who looks quite a bit younger, I'm constantly approached by younger potential partners. I set an arbitrary line for myself at 30...because younger somehow seemed squickier. I'm thinking that maybe that's too arbitrary - I'm clear about being done with children, and what I want long term, and I'm scrupulous about the Campfire Rule. Am I being to sex-negative toward...myself (gasp)?

@ 11 - I tried a Google search for "vore sex toys" and while I think I found what @7 was talking about (first and second hits - a Cracked article and a furry website) I'm not certain if the person who was sculpting them is still selling them:

https://www.sofurry.com/view/621166

That said, the comments were potentially instructive. LW might want to try using a sleeping bag as a sex toy.

RE making fun: I’ll venture a hypothesis that inclusive humour from *people who are out as sexual minorities* that recognizes that we’re all weird might be comforting and normalizing. Humour from the mainstream might not, even if intended to be so. CMDwannabe presumably has some experience in the area and can speak from the heart.

So I’m not going to argue. I will assume CMDwannabe is right. Still, we are going to make fun. We are also going to brainstorm, look for resources, attack and defend. The vores reading this know that their feelings of humiliation are recognized and accepted, at least by some. And life goes on. If humour is going to happen — which it will, life is funny — it might as well be here.

Evelyn Waugh to Nancy Mitford, 1954: “Of children as of procreation— the pleasure momentary, the posture ridiculous, the expense damnable.”

@20: Every time I set myself a lower limit age of X, I inevitably meet a hot person who is X minus 2 years old.

I find late 20s is the perfect age for men. Old enough to know what they're doing (and, you know, have a clue about Life so you can talk to them in between shags), but young enough to still get raging hard-ons. And if you're not looking for a serious relationship, what's squicky about someone who's been an adult for a decade? If they don't mind, I don't mind. Just be honest about your age and have fun!

From an ethical perspective, I think AYA should get tested and then be monogamous with this 18 year old, to avoid passing along an STI that might damage his fertility.

EricaP @25, I thought that STIs affected women’s fertility but not men’s?

@19 Delta35

@23 Alison Cummins

I agree that humor is good, healthy and liberating and I’d be the last person to suggest we should avoid it altogether. Experienced, confident people who have come to terms with their sexuality and kinks may have no problem with it. And for the record, I did like the church mouse comment.

Just be aware that VORE is an 18 yo struggling with her first relationship as well as ways to implement her fetish. It looks to me as if she had been struggling with it in the past; possibly trying unsuccessfully to kick the habit, all along wondering if her stuff is “normal.

Being in such a vulnerable position not every joke about the subject may come to her and others in her situation as a harmless, well-intentioned comic relief.

Am I wrong? I didn't think fetishes or kinks were hard wired? I've seen other people's kinks ebb and flow and disappear while a new one appears. I've never had a serious fetish or kink myself but my own tastes in sex go up and down. Or appear and disappear over the years. I've never been a big fan of giving blow jobs, but on occasion it felt good and was fun. But in the last few months it's all I want to do to my husband. But I imagine that will come and go like many other things. We were really into rimming for a while, then it floated away. We'll wear out one sex position or another and then put it on the shelf for a while and really get into a new one.

Maybe a REAL fetish or kink is different? Maybe it is hard wired and isn't likely to change over time to something else?

@26 STIs are more dangerous for female fertility, but can also affect male fertility. (And of course, the man may have secondary fertility issues if he passes an STI to his female partner who then gets PID.)

See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles…

>> In 10% of cases of gonorrhoea, there is concurrent chlamydial infection. If not promptly or adequately treated, the subsequent scarring and obliteration of the epididymal canal following an acute infection is usually persistent even after cure. If bilateral, the infection will result in obstructive azoospermia. With increasing multi drug resistance gonorrhea, this complication may become more prevalent in the future.

>> Acute epididymitis is most commonly caused by bacterial infection. A STI such as chlamydia or gonorrhea is the most common cause in men less than 35 years of age.

>> Syphilitic epididymitis has also been described and classified into three forms: acute diffuse interstitial, chronic diffuse interstitial, and gummatous. With any chronic inflammatory process, there is a risk of fibrosis and scarring with the potential to cause obstruction of the epididymis. Though uncommon, bilateral occlusion of the epididymides is a cause of azoospermia and, therefore, male infertility.

>> HIV positive men have more viscous semen containing fewer motile sperm.>>

Thanks, EricaP.

What happened to @18, I wonder?

Anyway, @17, 19, etc., re: making jokes. I think there's a fine line between jokes that make someone feel included and jokes that make them feel bad. And the problem is, the line varies from person to person, and no one else ever knows where it is. I'm not usually one to come down on the "toughen up" side, but I also think we do as much harm as good by cosseting people. And if someone is going to be devastated by casual, non-malicious jokes...they're going to have a variety of problems not just limited to an unusual kink. Part of growing up (which this girl is clearly doing, and thoughtfully) is learning to tell the difference between malicious and non-malicious joking. If there's never any non-malicious joking around, how do you learn?

I feel like people who never had to encounter anything like that are the same people who later on get all huffy and offended because a friend/ally used the wrong word--completely ignoring what that friend/ally was trying to communicate.

@28 PennyLady

Most kinks go deeper than a certain sexual act you practice for some time and then move on. They often show up early in life, before a real relationship materializes or even on the horizon, and might make the fetishee thinking there must be something wrong with them since this is “not normal.” Attempts to kick the habit, New Year resolutions, and even therapy are usually not that successful in erasing them in the long run.

Things are getting better nowadays with the internet, where you can do some research and also find like-minded people and sites. Your issue may even come to light and gain some public awareness and tolerance. But sex is still a big taboo in most parts of the world, and even a slight deviance in preferences may freak the young and the restless, as well as narrow-minded backward adults.

Thank you, Dan, for covering a Vore story.

It's the first time I've seen you do one, and as a fellow Vore fetishist (albeit much older and much more confident in my fetish), I feel your response was spot on.

A fetish is different from a kink in that it pretty much IS hard wired, it's required for the person with the fetish to become aroused and accomplish orgasm, and generally does not change without a great deal of concerted effort that often is entirely unsuccessful.

My first sexual fantasies occurred when I was quite young, of being eaten by a lion, and it never went away, nor changed in any appreciable way.

I have found a partner who shares corresponding Vore kinks, and am very happy sexually.

There is nothing 'spoiled' or 'delusional' about VORE's fetish, and I strongly advise her to tell people like this Hunter person (ironically a very Vore-ish handle) to stfu, do more research, and open their minds to the idea that other people can be turned on by the strangest things *and that is ok*

VORE, you're not hurting any body, your kink is shared by many, many people, and a quick google search will send you to all manner of people who are like yourself.

I suggest Eka's Portal.

Well, these are three questions to get one's teeth into.

When Dan put the ist letter on the other thread, I was speechless. What to say? Have I really landed on some alien planet, did 30 yrs of marriage and kids mean I'd missed so much?
Then I remembered it was America I was being hooked into. So I stayed speechless.
But no, Dan needed this letter to be really shaken down.
Surely being 18 is hard enough, navigating the world , learning about sex and everything..
If someone Came to me, personally, with this issue- I'd suggest therapy.
Or meditation. Or go find a partner into the same thing and work it out with them.

Oops. Souls have pursued the comments. And yes, @33, This Hunter Person,
Has been clocked. A vore name , you say?
When I read your comment last nite Hunter, during the teeth biting NAdal game, with this amazing American player I'd never seen before( you watch that Venn?). NAdal won by a hairs breath..
Anyway, Hunter. On reading your comment I just thought. Oh no. Don't go ( there) Big Julie, Don't go.

@33: Standing and applauding.
When I read things like this, I am thankful that my kinks and preferences are pretty dull by comparison!

Souls? Thanks iPhone." Should" is the word.

An 18 yr old and a 44 yr old? They make 18 yr olds different these days in some parts, I guess? Old enough to be his mother.

Old enough to be his MILF :)

@39 Lav

This may be the US side of me, something I don’t often bring up in a positive manner, but if both seem to want the same thing and it does work for them then I’d leave it at that. Yes, this may be somewhat on the extreme age difference scale due to the guy’s tender age, but who am I…

And since we’re on the subject… This older woman/younger man was known for being mostly, if not exclusively, a male fantasy. It seems to me that this is another area where the social dating boundaries keep blurring nowadays. Is my impression flawed since I live in a fairly liberal metropolitan bubble, or is it somewhat of a global trend?

@32

Thank you for explaining and being civil about it.

VORE - I applaud you for your courage! I've grown up with a vore fetish too and still have issues (after 35 years) discussing it with anyone i'm dating. There is nothing wrong with you and it's not impossible to find partners who will not judge you and even try to indulge your fantasies. Dan's advice is right on, and remember to indulge their fantasies too!

By the way, i've found over the years that my vore fetish hasn't always been necessary in my sexual encounters. It's always there as a go-to just in case but i've still managed to have a very fullfilling sex life.

Dan, thanks so much for covering a vore story! I've struggled with accepting this about myself for so many years.

CMD; no idea. Re global trend. I'm not up on the trends in cities here in Oz.
And I'm not suggesting this relationship is ok or not. Although, the LW is concerned, as she wrote in.
A boy of 18, is a boy of 18. How strong will he be when it ends or how able to cope if the attachment becomes strong and it ends. Those would be my concerns.
She is a mature woman. Maybe he's just acting out a fantasy with an older woman, and is in charge of his emotional boundaries( though at 18, what's the real chance of that?).

@44 LavaGirl: But isn't the risk of a bad emotional reaction to the end of an attachment there in any relationship? He presumably wouldn't be any more in charge of his emotional boundaries if he were sleeping with another 18-year-old, right? What's the difference?

Another 18 yr old is as naive as him. Of course, any age is open to devastation after a break up. Having some yrs up, though- you know the drill a bit. You know it passes, and the sun will shine again. You know how to navigate.

BiDanFan @37: When I read things like this I am grateful that my interests are so easily realized, and I am also grateful that forums like this exist so that sweet 18-year-olds like VORE can find people to point her in the direction of products, websites, tips, and communities, and that people like Gift Horse can come forward to say, "yeah, I have that fetish, too, and you're going to be just fine."

@40: This is one of those times I wish Slog had a "like" button.

You guys ok with incest now? Progressives.

Just email me The Party Line book, nocute. I promise to learn it word for word and rid my mind of any personal reactions. I so want to be in the In Crowd.

@47 She IS gonna be all right, so long as she's honest and open with her partners about what she fantasizes about.

There's a lot of trouble and heartbreak to be had for the fetishist who isn't willing to share their fantasies with their trusted partner, no matter their fetish.

Her particular fantasy is a very common genre in the Vore playbook, and I am sure she'll find herself right at home as soon as she finds the door, and once she enters, she's liable to be dazzled by the complexities of the kink.

HuMans are a freaky assemblage of atoms, that's for doggone sure!

@ Lav

48- my impression is that progressives are not ok with incest. Even those of us living on the outskirts of greater Sodom and Gomorrah can still use good judgment and be considerate, ethical, moral people. I also believe that letting others do their own thing, as long as they don’t break the law or harass anyone, is actually strength and should not mean I have no boundaries whatsoever.

49- Rest assured, you are still so amazingly cool and in.

CMD. It was a little joke. Australian humour, it's not for everyone.

CMD, if I was younger and lived nearby- I think I would have to add you to my
To Do List ( that's not a joke).

http://www.thestranger.com/slog/archives…

previous vore thread... fresh and lively

For the record, Adult Friendfinder changed ownership recently, and has dramatically cut down on the fakes.

It does still skew a bit mature though.

youtube video of a Second Life vore sim (there are many)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXCCWgll…

First-person vore poseball in second life where you're swallowed by a tiger (spoiler alert: you don't get out).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zspi4bVp…

Someday, we'll have holodecks and robots to work out these unrealizable fantasies.

Ms Lava - The AO coverage here is sixteen hours behind, which makes it a bit irritating. So far, though, I've had excellent luck to wake up every day to the tail ends of some excellent matches. This morning, it was the tail end of the Nadal match, yesterday morning some classic Monfils, and the day before the Special Ks.

@ 53 Lav

For good or bad, I think we may be much closer to be at the same age than you may think.

Now you can't say, "if I was younger," but unfortunately you're still eligible to play the geography card.

VAJANKLE!! you told me not to click on it, but I did. I blame myself. You're awesome.

I'm AYA and just to clear a couple things up, I am not worried about his getting hurt emotionally. He is a kind of, all in to you in person, but not so much contact when we are apart. I haven't seen him in 3 weeks, not sure if there will be a fourth time. Also, I've been tested plenty, so I'm pretty sure he is safe, but I will get tested again to make sure I am! I never thought to card, so good advice. And what does this 18 year old have? Well of course the stamina and endurance, not surprising. But he also has incredible patience, love of foreplay, love of oral, passion, and generosity. Believe me, I've been with plenty of good and bad partners, and this guy blew me away. I would have never believed an 18 year old guy could be so good. But I think he is the exception. I don't plan to find out though... :)

@20, Same age and same "problem," lol, and I often go for older guys. As far as sex negative for your sexy self, well...maybe if you're limiting yourself arbitrarily...yes?

I'm AYA and just to clarify a couple things up, I am not worried about his getting hurt emotionally. He is a kind of, all in to you in person, but not so much contact when we are apart. I haven't seen him in 3 weeks, not sure if there will be a fourth time. Also, I've been tested plenty, so I'm pretty sure he is safe, but I will get tested again to make sure I am! I never thought to card, so good advice. And what does this 18 year old have? Well of course the stamina and endurance, not surprising. But he also has incredible patience, love of foreplay, love of oral, passion, and generosity. Believe me, I've been with plenty of good and bad partners, and this guy blew me away. I would have never believed an 18 year old guy could be so good. But I think he is the exception. I don't plan to find out though... :)

Whoops, double post!

@41: So hang on: Being able to pull a hot, young, horny, hard-bodied male when you're at an age that society deems "past your prime", but in reality you've never been more comfortable with your body and your desires, is a MALE fantasy?

Go watch The Graduate again.

@48: You forgot your winky emoticon. :)

Yes BiDanFan. I did.
And CMD. Not sure the geography is a play. All those miles really do exist!
Only thru the magic of the Internet, can we all pretend we're in the same zone.

Lady aspen, thanks for writing in. I'm sure you've got many of the women and men, convinced.
And, Lucky You.
However, I have a 17 yr old son, and even with a much more sophisticated upbringing than he's had, I just don't see that there would be a great distance in their essence at that age. Personally, I think you are playing with fire, being with a boy that age.

BiDanFan @64, as a user of internet dating sites I can attest that — if the number of 18-year-olds and thereabouts who approach me is anything to go by — it is a very common male fantasy. I don’t remember it being a thing my first time around when I was in my early 30s, but this time around at 50? Totally a thing.

@67: I suspect the 18-year-olds who message 50-year-olds on dating sites are messaging EVERYONE from 18 to 50+. I think the male fantasy involved is "getting laid."

But hey, I for one am glad some young males do have that fantasy!

Dan talks about the campsite rule and the tea&sympathy rule. In theory I agree. In practice, well, I have to wonder how the practice works. Dan says very little about how to achieve the admirable goals. It sounds a little to me like saying "go ahead and keep that loaded gun under your pillow, just make sure it doesn't go off and shoot somebody." To which I'd reply "yeah, I'm in favor of not accidentally killing people, but how are you going to do that with a loaded gun under your pillow?"

Put it another way, what's the cost, risk, benefit analysis? Some would say that the great sex is worth the possibility that a young person's heart will be broken and feel taken advantage of. I'm not so sure.

I would say the campfire rule is applied by being honest with the younger person, being a mentor sexually, not playing mind games, not using the difference in experience and their general naivety in life against them, not manipulating them, etc. I've dated a few guys in their 20s and early 30s in the last year, and I've probably learned as much from them sexually as they have from me, especially since I was married so long. But there is a level of immaturity and game playing that happens with most of them. The Tea & Sympathy, well I'm not sure how I can guarantee that, I can only hope that he thinks well of me after this is done, and therefor speaks well, and keeps my name out of it. But like his promise of not having unprotected sex with other people, I hope for the best, plan for the worst.

And LavaGirl, I have a teen daughter and an almost teen son, so I get what you are saying. He is not sophisticated, he has just had a hard life from the little I know of it, and had to grow up young. Maybe because he initiated this "relationship" and is the aggressor sexually, I have been delusional to think he is more mature than he is. But like I said, I haven't seen him in 3 weeks, haven't heard from him in 1 week, so he isn't attached or heartbroken. I don't think I have done any harm, and it is likely over. I'm taking a dating break, and when that is done probably look for someone more my age and more like minded. No regrets though.

@69: You forget the possibility that the OLDER person's heart will be the one that is broken. Just because our hearts have been broken before, doesn't mean they can't be broken again. If risk of pain was a barrier to involvement, the human race would have died off millennia ago.

AYA: Sounds like it's turned out to be a short-lived but amazing fling for both of you. Something to tell the grandkids about... of course, you'll get your chance first ;)

Lady Aspen, I can imagine no regrets. Sounds like a discreet, exciting experience.
And great you are taking some time out.
Hope your future fella knows what a hot lady he's getting.

For the vore fetishist: I don't have this kink, but at 18, I had one primary fantasy that seemed essential to be able to get off. I at times despaired that this made my sex and fantasy life fairly one dimensional. However, over the years, I developed new ones....some variations on the first, then more variety. I still go back to the old one at times but I am not "stuck" as I feared years ago. Message to LW1, don't pathologize yourself, play with your kink and see where life leads you. Life is long, you will probably still like vore at 40, but by then you'll have some other stuff too, or at least have a number of variations on the theme along with workable ways to incorporate the fantasies into your sex life.

LW2, in my online adventuring days, I hooked up with a young man who, in our initial chat, mentioned that he was born at the local hospital....not just a local but a native local. I had passed that building and seen the date on the plaque outside... So if true that if he'd been born there, he was at most 14. He was quite insistent that he was 18... Before we talked again, I did more research and found that the hospital had existed earlier but in a different building, and yes, I did "card" him when we met in person. (We had some fun a few times, not a relationship, campsite rule observed, he seemed to like our 30 year age difference.)

LW3, swingers are pretty easy to find. Personally I always preferred taking kinks like that out of town anyway...was always worried I'd run into a client (or worse, boss or employee) at a swingers or kink party. Which should not be a problem if there is mutual outing but still, I like to keep work and private life strictly separate. I highly recommend the nearest big city or at least next town over. As a single woman, you'll want to look at groups' websites first to find out their rules....some do not allow singles at all, some do, but with different admission rates. You don't want to drive for hours only to find you can't get in. (Apparent contradiction with above story: local boy was off at school most of the time, and we met one on one, not at a party.)

BiDanFan @68,

Yep, that was my theory at first too.

But I dated a guy for a while who had always preferred women old enough to be his mother — I was on the young side for him, only ten years older. Then when I started chatting with some of the more articulate of these young men it was clear that I was being targeted specifically for being older.

Sometimes a thirteen-year-old with mommy issues will fixate on the Older Woman issue of the Playboys in his friend’s basement. Sometimes a seventeen-year-old will become frustrated with the passivity of girls his own age and decide Fuck That. Some young men just think the sexual confidence of an experienced woman is Hot.

Also note the plethora of MILF porn videos.

I get approached by 18-28-year-old men far more frequently than I get approached by 33-43-year-old men. Some of them have MILF fantasies; some want an experienced older woman to help them learn more about sex; some appreciate the confidence and assertiveness of older, experienced women, especially after the modesty, reticence, passivity, and sexual timidity of many of the younger women they've dated; some are hoping for a cougar or sugar mama (ha! good luck: I can barely scrape the rent up); some want to be dominated and assume that older women would naturally be dominant (I also have short hair and apparently that reads as "bossy" to some young men).

I think the main reason that young or very young men pursue much older women is that there is no way (or the odds are very much against) a significantly older woman is going to expect their relationship to become a "real" one. The chances that a 45-y/o woman is going to expect to be introduced to all the 20-y/o's friends and parents, that she's going to expect an exclusive relationship or ask where this is all going are almost zero. It's a temporary relationship only about sex and that is clearly understood by all parties.

Personally, I can't even have casual sex with someone I can't connect with and have a conversation with as some sort of peer, so there's simply no way I'm going to take one of those younger guys up on his offers. All the hard cock in the world doesn't make up for the lack of skills that most young men have (I'm remembering the young men I dated in my youth--we were peers, but we were young, and their skills were minimal at best), or the inability to make interesting small talk before, between, and after. I have found that even men in their late 20s are just too young for me--32 is my bare minimum, but I'd much rather date a man in his 40s or 50s.

I'm curious, do vore fetishists split between those who prefer to eat and those who prefer to be eaten?

Do people tend to satisfy this fetish simply by fantasizing while masturbating or having sex? Or is it more fun to roll play with a partner - i.e. one person is the eater, and the other is the feast, kind of like tops and bottoms?

In your opinion, is vore workable with a GGG non-vore partner?

@Hunter: As someone who finds it impossible to shut the fuck up in the face of an unconvincing party line, I'd like to think this place benefits from a little nonconformity every now and then.

But it's pretty clear you're as ignorant about vore fetishes as I am, in which case it's better to shut the fuck up than to litter the place with useless judgments.

Oops, @78 was for @Gift Horse @33.

Heh...in a former life, I was (for much too long) the 18 year old, so I'm a little curious what exactly the "Tea & Crumpets" rule is. My advice to LW1 is: by all means have fun, and resist any temptation to upgrade it into more than an affectionate friendship. Otherwise, enjoy.

AFinch @81, the Tea and Sympathy rule for young people dating old people is ‘When you tell the story later — because you will — be kind.’

Vs the Campsite rule for old people dating young people which is, ‘Leave them in better shape than when you found them.’

@82 - I am familiar with the campsite rule (and generally avoided younger people as a result).

The admonition to speak kindly of exes seems universal to me, not just reserved for age up or down, or rather, with no specific additional emphasis on your older partners.

I feel no more obligated to sugar-coat the negatives of my relationship with my "older woman" (20+ year age split) than with parters closer in age, certainly not when the negatives have nothing directly to do with age. I do think being kind to people is a universal virtue, esp. if you want it in return.

AFinch @83, Yes, I get you! I think that the implication is that this particular relationship will inevitably become a boastful story of some type. The boastful story shouldn’t also be a derogatory one.

The boastful story shouldn’t also be a derogatory one.

I definitely agree. The thing that always strikes me about bad-mouthing people you've been intimate with is the flip-it-around-question: if this person was so horrible or toxic or whatever...why on earth were you bumping uglies with them?

Re Tea and Sympathy rule (from WIKI), the idea is that the younger person was (in part) interested in the fame & power of the older person, and it's super tacky to gossip about that older person afterward in ways that will hurt their career:

>> Shortly after a 2009 scandal in Portland, Oregon involving openly gay mayor Sam Adams and Beau Breedlove, who had allegedly turned 18 almost immediately before the two began a sexual relationship, Savage created a companion rule to the "campsite rule," now known as the Tea and Sympathy rule. The rule is a reference to a line in the play of the same name, in which a much older woman states to a high-school-age boy, right before having sex with him: "Years from now, when you talk about this – and you will – be kind." Savage claimed in an article in The Portland Mercury that, while Adams followed the "campsite rule" – Breedlove did not claim that Adams had given him any diseases or caused him emotional trauma, and in fact still refers to Adams as a friend – Breedlove violated the Tea and Sympathy rule by making public statements that he knew could ruin Adams' career. >>

@77

"I think the main reason that young or very young men pursue much older women is that there is no way (or the odds are very much against) a significantly older woman is going to expect their relationship to become a "real" one."

Or you could consider the possibility that you're smokin' hot.

@86 - TYVM - I googled but didn't see anything obvious...admittedly, I didn't try very hard.

Hunter, not sure you're telling anybody anything new, when you own up to unconventional opinions. And I agree with some of your points. These manifestations of sexual behaviours that are talked about here, are of course protected. Dan accepts all his children. And by implication, so should those commenting.
One can though, register slight disbelief , can look at the issues at hand. People write in for advice, from many different voices, so they can take all that in, and then decide. As long as the comment has compassion mixed in there, the truth as each person sees it, is what the question askers are looking for.

@89, I remember when the Adams situation blew up, so I knew what to look for.

@89
What exactly were you looking for? "Tea and Sympathy" was also a movie (1956) starring Deborah Kerr and John Kerr (no relation, both pronounced "car"). The whole "be kind" thing is a dated attitude if you live in some liberal coastal zone, but for 1956 (pre-birth control, women's lib) it's a somewhat radical story of a woman with sexual agency.

And, yes, I get that she helps him get past his own insecurities as well as others' insinuations that he's gay by fucking him, but still-- she does in fact take her own initiative to "solve the problem" in the story through a sexual act, and ultimately divorces her macho husband. (Of course my perspective may itself be dated. I remember the Vietnam war in the papers. Remember newspapers?)

"This vorism sounds like a hysterical reaction to a spoiled childhood."

Wha? Why this particular kink, as distinct from any other(s)? Or are you suggesting that kinks in general are hysterical reactions to a spoiled childhood?

"By what criterion is this a sexual condition?"

Because the LW herself describes it as her fetish.

"There is nothing overtly sexual about this vorism. At least the poor shoe fetishist can jerk off onto a pair of high-heels."

I, personally, don't think there's anything overtly sexual about high heels. Doesn't mean that everybody feels that way.

"This is an indulgence of an affluent society. I can't imagine some serf masturbating to the thought of being eaten by a wild animal."

I can't imagine some serf masturbating over a pair of high heels, not least because to a serf, any shoes at all would be an indulgence of affluent society. So what? I'm no fan of the rich, but do their orgasms not count or something?

"Vore says she's in her 1st sexual relationship. I assume she's talking about her boyfriend. That would mean she doesn't consider her long-standing fantasy to be sexual."

No, that would mean that she doesn't consider her long-standing fantasy to be a *relationship*, which it isn't; it's a *fantasy*.

I'm not trying to be insulting here, but your comments in this thread sorta... don't make sense. You seem to have a great deal invested in the idea that Vore is a spoiled rich kid who is the product of a very dysfunctional family, and the disdain you're expressing is directed at your mental construct of this delusional "spoiled brat" and her equally delusional parents, rather than anything actually stated or implied in her letter.

For all any of us know to the contrary, Vore may have grown up poor in a log cabin and had to fantasize by candlelight after her double shift at the chicken factory. Or, your assumptions may be correct and she may be a rich kid from a rich family. It still doesn't follow that, therefore, her fetish isn't a "real" fetish.

How weird, that boys are going after a lot older women.
When they have those luscious young 18 yr old girls to hang with.

@87, Hunter. A Novel thought. And you're dear to me, too.

When DO we get to just smirk at all the snowflakes? never? And why is advice that suggests changing ones self to accommodate a less self-involved life always get completely demonized on this site? As though the person offering the advice is a bigot... To me, an opinion on how to make your life easier to live should be judged on its own merit and not on the attitudes of the deliverer of said opinion. Our "everyone is special...everyone is a winner" society is ridiculous at times. My own opinion to vore... though it is true there is "nothing" wrong with being sexually aroused by being eaten... it is a horribly impractical fetish and you will find your sexual needs easier to fulfill in your adult life if you can break free from this particular fetish....seeing as how fulfilling it completely can only be done once... and we here at SL believe in multiple orgrasms wherever possible.

@LavaGirl, luscious yes, but boring, inhibited, insecure, and inexperienced. At least that is what the young bucks tell me. ;)

@97, Gay people have often tried to be straight, to no effect. Gold-star pedophiles wish they could lose their sexual interest in children, but to no effect. As a young feminist, I was upset by my desires to submit to men, but that didn't make my desires less exciting to me.

Changing what turns you on isn't like deciding to stop taking sugar in one's coffee.

Chairman @97: First, it's my understanding that fetishes are as difficult to change or get rid of as sexual orientation. So telling VORE and anyone else who has a difficult/impossible-to-realize fetish to just change herself "to accommodate a less self-involved life" is not only possibly not feasible, but condescending, to boot.

And no one's saying "everyone is special...everyone is a winner"; they're trying to help an 18-year-old girl come to terms with something she's concerned about--namely that she's doomed to a miserable sex life for the rest of her life. Read her again as she wonders if "regular stuff will cut it after all? I have a mounting suspicion that it won't, and I'm having trouble coming to terms with what seems to be a really warped, messed-up fetish. What if this is the only thing I can get off to? Am I doomed to solo sex forever?"

She's eighteen years old; she has valid reason to be concerned; she feels like a freak; and it's quite likely that she can't change, even if she wants to desperately. And you suggest that people not insisting that she change for her own good, so as not to encourage her to think she's "special," or Hunter suggesting that her sexual fetish is related to her having been spoiled by obtuse parents (god only knows where he picked that up from the original letter) is somehow failing her?

Were you ever 18? Were you ever worried about something--something real, I might add? Would it have been more helpful for people to
(a) brainstorm possible ways to accommodate your needs
and
(b) reassure you that you're going to be okay (especially if they're older and have successfully dealt with the same issue

or for people to berate you and snicker at you and then to suggest that other people not doing the same are in the wrong somehow?

LavaGirl is wrong @90 when she says, "people write in for advice, from many different voices." People write in for Dan's advice--we're just jumping in unsolicited. But LavaGirl is also right when she says "As long as the comment has compassion mixed in there, the truth as each person sees it, is what the question askers are looking for (emphasis added)."

So you can say you don't know how to address her question; you can say that you don't understand her fetish; you can even maybe say that you are relieved not to share it, as it sounds like one that leads to some difficulties you are glad not to have to contend with.
But what is the point of making a disturbed kid more disturbed still? And then sneering at those of us who are trying to help her navigate this issue and give her support?

You ask: "When DO we get to just smirk at all the snowflakes? never?" I guess the answer to that is you get to be as big an asshat as you like any time you like. I guess you even get to chide others for not joining you in your smirking. I suppose you even get to try and suggest that you are being kept from exercising your right to free speech.

Chairman; Hear Hear ( for multiple orgasms).

Well, this has certainly been instructive.

Nocute, who made you God?
" LavaGirl is wrong @90".. Not wrong. My opinion. Just like the words you utter are just your opinions.

@#78: "I'm curious, do vore fetishists split between those who prefer to eat and those who prefer to be eaten?"

Yes.
They are split between 'prey' and 'pred(ator)', with some liking to be both, depending on their partner or mood.

Kind of like there are dominants and submissives and 'switches' in BDSM.

In addition to Prey and Predator designations, there are also myriad different forms of Vore, with the two major categories being 'Soft' and 'Hard' vore, with the 'soft' variety tending to be the more popular of the two.

'Soft' vore is the fantasy of the swallowing (or being swallowed) of the prey whole, without chewing. A snake (or dragon) swallowing a mouse whole would be an example of soft vore.

'Hard' vore is the fantasy of the prey being bitten and chewed, such as what would happen with a lion, or, to use a fantasy example, a zombie. If you like to chew (or be chewed), then you're into hard vore.

Please note, for brevity, I am really only giving you the reader's digest condensed version of all of this because in reality the vore kink is very complex, and has many, many permutations.

"Do people tend to satisfy this fetish simply by fantasizing while masturbating or having sex? Or is it more fun to roll play with a partner - i.e. one person is the eater, and the other is the feast, kind of like tops and bottoms?"

They satisfy this kink all kinds of ways.

Masturbation and fantasy are one way, yes, much in the same way that I'm sure there's been plenty of people fantasizing about plowing Laura Croft while they masturbate.

And just like these people are never going to be able to put it to a video game character any more than a vore fetishist is going to make their fantasy of being a dragon who eats their lover come true, the fantasy is still awesome, and the orgasm is just as orgasmic.

Role-playing is the commonest way I know of to fulfill these fantasies. I have a very rich fantasy life which is easily fulfilled by having a partner who is as into biting as he is being bitten, and we weave intricate stories to enjoy our mutual kink in safe, fun ways that really only result in sweaty bodies and some world class hickeys.

There are specially made vore related toys which can be employed in these fantasy roleplaying sessions, but these aren't mandatory, or even preferable. (I don't care for the use of props, but VORE's mileage may vary.)

People into soft vore can make their fantasies more realistic by using pillows and blankets, and some forms of tight bondage gear such as straight jackets and the like to simulate being swallowed.

"In your opinion, is vore workable with a GGG non-vore partner?"

Vore is absolutely workable with a GGG non-vore partner, and before I was fortunate enough to find a partner with corresponding kinks, I had to make due with non-vore partners, and had to learn to navigate the intricacies of explaining my kink to someone not versed.

That is why it's very, very important for VORE, as an 18 year old, to understand that it's ok to have these fantasies... to not let people like this 'Hunter' person bully and attack her about what excites her sexually, and to not let people like this person make her feel as if she is damaged or 'delusional' because she has an unusual kink.

I developed my kink VERY young, before I even understood that what I was feeling was sexual, and I went through a very miserable time in my youth being told things like what this Hunter person said, and then having to heal from that.

Having a GGG partner who is accepting makes a world of difference for those of us who are different... and I cannot thank those GGG non-Vore people who are reading Dan's column enough for helping people like myself to come to grips with our fantasies in a way that lets us feel accepted and loved for who we are.

#78, I hope what I've shared here has been helpful to you.

Lava: I knew you wouldn't bother to actually read what I said. Go ahead and be pissed at what you're misinterpreting. I was telling ChairmanOfTheBored to take to heart your statement about having compassion, but you obviously get more mileage out of feeling slighted by me.

Too bad (though I see the obvious issue) that there is no cross-connection between commenters here and profiles at OKC or the Stranger's own Love Lab etc.