Columns Feb 25, 2015 at 4:00 am

Sick and Easy

Comments

115
Thank you gonzo and Eudaemonic for your posts @ 112 and 113, which must have posted while I was composting 114. I thought I had been clear, but I guess not clear enough. It's nice to know that someone understood me.
116
@111, AFinch: I completely agree with you about EricaP's solution (@88), mainly because it is the simple truth. I HATE INYIM because it is underhanded and basically not the truth, except in very rare cases (like none). If INYIM was actually the case, why not let the dumpee make that choice for them self? Dumper is essentially saying "There is some horrible dark thing wrong with me that requires we break up, but I can't tell you what it is and I can't let you decide if you want to continue the relationship even though. To me it seems completely disrespectful of the person being dumped.
117
@115: Ooops! "Composting" should have been "composing!" Guess I'm a little green this morning!
118
A sort of rule-of-thumb is developing as we discuss the subject: The shorter the relationship, the less serious the relationship, the less invested in the relationship, the more hurtful and useless explanations for dumping are. The longer, the more serious, the more investment, the more need for explanations and efforts to make it work. The lightbulb moment for me (though it should be obvious as I think about it) is that when we're young, we fly all over the map in terms of feeling extra deeply relationships that might ultimately turn out to be pretty casual. We confuse how serious it all is.

Look at my 2 examples. In one, I was dumped, agonized about it, think I would have liked to know where I went wrong. In another, I did the dumping, felt guilty, chose not to say it was about how unhappy I was sexually. (And admittedly, there were other reasons too.) But the thing they have in common: Both took place before I was 22.
119
@118, but, conversely, in a relationship of many years, haven't the issues already been brought up and hashed over? If A left her husband B after many years of arguing over his philandering, why would A say on her way out the door -- "by the way, it was your philandering which finally drove me away"?
120
In my own experience, the one time I think I should have explained more is when a long-term (non-monogamous) sex partner reacted horribly to being told I had acquired an (easily curable) STI -- even though I still don't know if he's the one who gave it to me.

Wherever the STI came from, a caring person's first reaction in an open relationship should be sympathy or gratitude for the report. Not blame. But at the time I wasn't capable of explaining that calmly.
121
@116 - No, I disagree, completely. INYIM is another way of saying "there's this thing about you, which is objectively perfectly normal, but I just can't deal with it. I'm the one who can't handle it".

A long time ago, after I'd recovered from a bad breakup and was starting to just date a few people casually, I wound up meeting two really amazing women. When it rains, it pours. I am uncomfortable juggling, and I felt I needed to make a choice and only pursue a deeper more exclusive relationship with one. I "dumped" the other lovely woman. She was pretty amazing, and I think we would have had an awful lot of fun together. We were probably more compatible in some respects, but I felt ultimately less overall. She was, no matter what, very smart (college professor), good looking (unbelievable sexy), aweseome in bed (better than she looked, which is...rare), funny, kind, thoughtful and shared the same goals. Just incredible - the whole package. I was kind of humbled and pleased with myself that she was even interested in me. I dumped her. It was not her...there was nothing to tell her. I said "it's not you, it's me". And it was...there was something that just wasn't feeling like we clicked and connected...I can't put my finger on it. The closest I could have offered her was that her notion that we are all tabula rasa and can completely remake our selves into whomever we like struck me as a little naive. And she was pretty self-made on top of all her other attributes. I did elaborate and say, "given how serious this seems to be getting, I should be feeling it more, and I'm just not feeling it". But that is "it's not you, it's me".
122
@96 Lava
I'm a woman and yet I do have one of those...
123
Oops, should be @97
124
Damn, all that playing in the ā€˜Dump His Girlfriendā€™ thread and Iā€™ve been missing comedy gold.
In related news, thought that Iā€™d found an actual Christian Porn site, and that it was awesome that they offered a DVD called ā€˜Rod is the Answer,ā€™ but it turned out to be fake. Iā€™m pretty sure. Directions to an actual site appreciated.

The whole ā€˜because boobs!ā€™ seems pretty clear to me; itā€™s a leg-pull of menā€™s frequent but not all-encompassing attraction to t and a, kind of saying ā€˜guys are generally horny, so I thought heā€™d come over to get some.ā€™ Which kind of answers itself: you might get a guy on a plane if
- you had a pre-existing relationship and he still digs you,
- youā€™ve vamped on him from a distance with emails and pics and shit like youā€™re the sex kitten thatā€™ll use him like a Turkish prisoner and leave rug burns on 80% of his body,
- itā€™s a cool place that he wanted to go to anyways
- youā€™re one of the last women on earth
...but thatā€™s all, get him on a plane, for a short vacation. Unless heā€™s pretty flush, with a flexible schedule, who can do that more than a couple times a year? So, yeah, the assertion that ā€˜too busy for you is bullshitā€™ is bullshit. Horny bumps heads with Broke and or Inconvenience, it doesnā€™t always win.
And if the guy didnā€™t just fall off the turnip truck, he knows that thereā€™s often a big divide between an online persona and the person in the flesh. Not just deceptive pics ("Pictures don't lie.ā€ "The hell they don't. I met my first wife that way.ā€) but manners, personal energy, all that stuff Danā€™s mentioned a million times.
LW thinking they were ā€˜datingā€™ is kind of a red flag. Iā€™m wondering also why the guy ā€˜broke it off,ā€™ a sexy pen pal is awesome, also low-maintenence, if he didnā€™t have a GF reading over his shoulder.
If heā€™s busy, what he doesnā€™t want is more hassle. If the guy knows for a fact that sheā€™s moving fairly close by, and hasnā€™t lept to make her the loofah in the shower of his love, she needs to let this one pass.
125
@124: Cat Brother: First of all, great analysis and I loved your phrasing. I'm going to have to steal "make her the loofah in the shower of his love," and find appropriate opportunities to use it.
You said "Iā€™m wondering also why the guy ā€˜broke it off,ā€™ a sexy pen pal is awesome, also low-maintenence, if he didnā€™t have a GF reading over his shoulder. " That is certainly one possibility. I mean, there's no reason to believe this guy is as advertised (in this case single) any more than he has reason that the lw is as she advertises herself (in this case, originally, sane and reasonable). But I think that the fact that she doesn't want to allow him to gracefully beg off an online relationship that was probably indicating her growing intensity was probably a big factor in bowing out. Maybe he was getting the crazy vibe from her--because narcissism--and decided that boobs alone, especially those over a thousand miles away, were just not worth it.
126
Nice posts, Dirt. Love your slant on life.
And so much easier to take in, with less anger showing.
127
"Loofah in the shower of his love", Cat.
Classy.
Christian Porn site? No sorry.
The Catholics of course don't need a porn site. Just sign up as an altar boy.
128
LW gives off a whiff of pre-entitled girl used to getting attention, her comment in the I'm -Kidding-But-Not-By-Much vein, like Lucille Bluth saying, "Why yes, I think I'm a faaabulous mother."
Some girls from small ponds really do think they can become movie stars, or make guys jump on planes to date cross-country, because of the outsize reaction they got from dudes back home....like a guy who kills it as a hick town quarterback, can't even get on the team in college.
Boobs certainly do work like voodoo in high school and college, or they sure did on me. Of course, that was the 80's, they were a lot rarer, now...fucking xenoestrogens, man.
It doesn't make her a terrible person, we live in a society where (for the most part) guys have to do the chasing, some girls are seriously sought after, and a lot of that will bend anyone's antenna. We all have to adapt to how people change, guys, in particular, less like the frenzied pussy chase of teens and 20's, now have to focus on Big Picture shit. More, at least.

We also might touch on what a visit like that implicitly means, which can be a lot. Unless you've both explicitly agreed that it's just party time, not the first step in a Big Thing, someone might avoid a trip like that to avoid giving the wrong impression. I can recall dancing away from girls inviting themselves to see me, just because while I'd be fine to get down then and there, I didn't want them thinking it was going to lead to something serious. I had some fun in a previous thread talking about a girl I'd seen in the Personals here, after I'd moved to the East coast, and it was a bangingly appealing profile, but I was horny and lonely, not insane, I wouldn't have actually tried flying back and forth to date her. With one or two exceptions (see 'Turkish prisoner' condition above.) (Still redeemable.)
129
BAD, It's amazing that you've discovered the one true way to get any woman off no matter what. That's incredible. I guess my wife isn't a woman. I am shocked.

COB, Homophobia = The belief that gay men will treat straight men the way straight men treat women. Don't be a dick. Whether he's gay (unlikely) or straight (overwhelmingly likely) he says he's straight. Take him at his word and don't push it. He knows you're gay and he probably knows you've got a crush on him. If he wants you, he'll let you know.
130
Cat Brother, I'm starting to crush out on you big time.

@Root--good responses, both of them.
131
What is this story?
Pictures of boobs. For a start, I hate that word. Boobs.
A body part on a woman, created to feed babies. It is a sexual part, too. Nature,doubling up.
I remember, while Breast feeding, Having responses in my sex. Nature again. A woman's sex, starts to contract.
After a baby getting shot outta there, need all the help we can find.
Like love happens in boobs? Maybe, this is modern love? Maybe love not even involved anymore.

Sometimes, sadly, I feel the Patriarchy has won. Females, reducing themselves to body parts. Try and attract a man.
A life. Having a life. Isn't that what Feminism is about? A female living her life. If a male is attracted to that life, all well and good.
Females are not males. Yet, this sending pictures of ones secret place, ones bits, to try and get a man's attention. He can open any porn mag to see a female that way. Or watch porn.
This girl. Perfect example. Tries to use her boobs, yet talks of feeling she could have a real connection with this guy. Her heart, is engaged.
The guy. Probably, many many boobs later, can't even remember who this girl is.
133
@130, Lava says that at the Savage Love beach party, Iā€™m required to serve drinks just wearing a Speedo...Stop objectifying me, you hetero-normative sexpot!

Lava, not sure I can agree. Big difference between ā€˜some boobsā€™ and ā€˜one particular set of boobs.ā€™
This guy I know, har, recently subscribed to one of those amateur porn website for a month, and downloaded numerous videos. By the time his $30 was up, he had porn of someone who, at least to a large part, looked like pretty much anybody. If I, I mean he, wanted variety, heā€™d never have to surf Pornhub again. Itā€™s certainly a lot of boobs. Still, without trying hard, I can think of three, no five, no ten, sets of boobs Iā€™d like to wrap around my cock et al, and the thought is exciting to a fierce degree, because whose boobs they are. Not just the boobs, and donā€™t you people call ā€˜em ā€˜norksā€™ down there?, but who theyā€™re attached to.

I donā€™t know that we can call The Patriarchy to task for boob-attraction, (some)women seem quite good at putting them out there on their own. Itā€™s no lie, men will do some stupid shit to get a look at them, stupider shit if they think they can get their hands on them, and thatā€™s power, especially over young men. Some people abuse power, some donā€™t want it at all. Wangs donā€™t work that way on women, or weā€™d see a renaissance of 16th century French codpieces.

And I repeat, I think she was using ā€˜boobsā€™ as shorthand for ā€˜the power of sexual attractionā€™ rather than ā€œI have a rack that could launch a thousand ships.ā€ I donā€™t think she comes off real well from her letter, maybe it was edited for space, but sheā€™s not Sara Palin.
134
Hunter, I agree that no one in a serious relationship should be left wondering why it ended. But I think that AFinch gave a good example up @121 of when you can't even give an explanation if you tried, when something just isn't connecting properly, much as you sometimes wish it would. I think most of my breakups (on either side) have been for things like that. I tend to stay away from "it's not you; it's me," because I think that people hear that more as "it's you," even if it really was meant as AFinch used it. I prefer to say things like "it's not working for me" or "I just don't feel how I should feel," and I mean those things honestly, and oftentimes, I really wish it was working for me, or that I did feel more of a connection. But I know that that's no consolation for the person getting dumped who hears that and wants to know WHY (or why not). I know they think that if I just gave them a reason, they could move on, or have "closure." Problem is, I don't think I could give a better or more honest reason if I tried.

And then there are the times when the reason would be "because I get a depressed/panicked feeling at the thought of having to have sex with you and don't want to do it." Would it seriously do anyone any good at all to say/hear that?

Thanks for the good wishes. I asked my new bf about it, and he says he doesn't want me to be any way other than how I am or stop doing things that make me happy, but he also would prefer not to hear the details. So for the time being, that's how I'm proceeding. I suspect, though that the fwbs will fall away (or at least the benefits part), as I kind of want to spend my time with shiny new bf. We'll see. I do feel a sense of relief that, whether I end up acting on it or not, I have consent to keep having sexual adventures with these guys (btw, I was already transitioning down to 3 of them from 4).
135
Cat Bro--nah, I love you for your mind. And your Bryonic avatar.
136
I'm not saying , Cat, The Patriarchy is to blame for Breast attraction. Where I say that?
I love looking at Breasts.
I'm talking about this way females seem to think they have to offer their body parts, in pictures.
Not risking really living their lives for ThemSelves. Not just with an eye to catching a man.
Females, we are called the gate keepers, for a reason.
We are Not males.
This beach party, no speedos allowed. God. Makes me think of our maniac Australian Prime Minister.
Who is on the ropes, at the moment. And starting to behave quite like he's lost his mind. He parades for the nation, in speedos.
138
@131 Lava - Nature,doubling up.
God is a civil engineer. Only a civ e would run a sewage line through a recreation area.

@Cat - Yeah but are you gonna clean this sticky shit off my keyboard now?
139
Oh thanks, Hunter. The new code, eh, so the word Patriarchy isn't used.
Maybe not.
Women, God, what beautiful creatures they are. And young women, especially.
Why do they need to equate themselves to porn stars?
140
Yes Philo, strange planning. To be sure.
Economy, I guess.
You're a funny girl.
141
@Philophile: As far as I'm concerned there's nothing like going through pregnancy and especially childbirth to dismiss the idea of "Intelligent Design."
144
Hmm, Philo, youā€™re either a squirter or a dude, oh wait, simpler explanation, you just typed after imagining something, and who among us has not, eh? If they ever scan my mouse for lube residue...Is penis/breast play, aka titty-fucking, aka according to Lava ā€˜norm-wrangling the old fellaā€™ a fave of yours? I only ask for informational purposes.

Cute, say what you want, I know that under your keyboard, your hands are curled into claws thinking of my slate-hard pouting buttocks. Actually that pic does look like me, at least, I had a couple people ask where I found a program that rendered me into a classic painting. Though now the hair is much shorter, in anticipation of dragon boat season. Pretty good pic of me at my site www.mybodyarchitects.com, you can judge.

Lava, not sure young girls are ā€˜equating themselves to porn stars.ā€™ Everyone wants to feel attractive, wants to be admired. Interestingly, some of the top-grossing female porn stars, thinking of Belladonna and Inari Vacchs (retired, I know), were modestly-chested, small waists, big round asses. Not exactly a look weā€™re told women are all told to emulate. Iā€™ve always felt that porn-choice was one of the most honest beasts in the jungle; itā€™s (usually) solitary, you do it for yourself, nobody rents porn that they donā€™t want to watch. Decades ago, I saw that porn stars celebrated for their beauty, or for, say, a great ass (Nina Hartley), looked a way that would never get them fashion magazine contracts.
145
Breasts or tits, not boobs, unless you're being funny. And never, never titties. Let alone boobies.
146
Yeah, ā€˜tittiesā€™ always sounded kinda trailer park to me...Not sure how else to describe that act.
Though I would go see a band called the Nork Wranglers.
148
What about Jugs? Titty only used when talking to Breast fed children / or men who would like to be small children occasionally; as in " do you want some titty milk, then?"
149
Cat; of course everyone wants to feel attractive. Like, Dur.
Porn: visual stimulii, related directly to a person's sex. Right?
If a young woman, is just out looking for sex. And she is in contact with a young man, also just looking for sex Then body part photos, leading in the direction they both want to go in.
A young woman, like this LW, wants to connect to all of this man she was in touch with. Yet, she believes, by going straight to his sex, she will somehow get to his heart.
150
Weird, I've never had any trouble figuring out more or less why I'd been dumped. If I were Crinoline's premature ejaculator, or EricaP's STI jerk, or nocutename's panic inducing sex partner, I'm pretty sure I could connect the dots. If a woman isn't feeling attraction or chemistry with me, it's easy to read.
152
OK, I try again. Imagine a couple. They've been together a relatively short time- say several months. Let's say they really hit it off and are super into each other, but one of them, it turns out, is an alcoholic. The other, after trying it out for awhile (being with an alcoholic) decides the issue is a deal breaker. Trying to talk about it only leads to fights and hurt feelings. Upon breaking up, isn't it reasonable for dumper to tell the alcoholic that the reason is: your drinking. Even if it's a long standing relationship and the dumpee already knows that is the reason, it still seems like it could be useful for dumpee to hear it, neat. Some posts have talked about being the dumpee and wanting to know the reason in hopes of easing the pain (which they pointed out doesn't really work). I'm looking at it not as pain relief but something that could be useful (even though painful). You can substitute other things for alcoholism, even things not so one sided - different ways of dealing with money for example. Maybe I started out a lot more screwed up or a lot dumber than other people here in general, but I have learned a lot from being dumped....
Of course I don't believe it's always this way. Many times "It's just not working for me." is the best place to leave it.
Rest In Peace Leonard Nimoy, Spock
153
Gonzo;
As Sean says, if the chemistry shifts, one picks that up.
Something like too much drinking: yes.
Sometimes, might not be a clear reason. Just a missing, over time, of each other's styles, tastes etc.

155
119- Erica P-- Yes, agreed. The longer and more serious the relationship, the more it can be assumed that the dumping reasons have been brought up before.

This conjures up more memories for me. I had brought up sexual unhappiness with him. I tried to do it in a gentle fashion. He took those conversations as opportunities to bring up with me, in a gentle teasing fashion (I never teased), those things that he apparently considered to be my sexual shortcomings. So while I did talk about what was wrong, I never said "and this is a very big deal." Presumably in a longer, more mature relationship, that would have come up before.
157
test
158
@144 Cat - Occam's razor, not a one, phones are almost as gross as mice like that, and for your information I was struck by your speedos and style. And my take on the LW is the same.
159
Never watched porn on a phone before, but never say never. I think it has to do with using both hands; like a tennis backhand, using two hands affords more options and finesse.
Now Lava wants me shirtless, baggy pants, turban, the whole 'seraglio attendant' thing. Think I might trip while delivering drinks, but we all gotta chop cotton for the white man in our way.

Lava, I think most women think (with some justification) that if they can make a physical impression, they get a foot in the door to showcase their personality. It is indeed hard to go in the opposite directions, unless you've got features not immediately apparent, i.e. the Stealth Ass.
There's a difference between sending him boob shots on her phone, and putting out flattering but non-racy photos, as there's a difference in writing "I'm gonna make you come so many times, you'll start to think it's a career, and after our first weekend you'd better have weights in your pockets, 'cause the first gust of wind'll blow you away, so start hitting the Vitamin E, boy," and "I'm super-excited to see you, and I know we'll have so much fun!" She wasn't real clear on how they mutually courted. Her knockers have, unfairly I think, gotten most of the attention.
160
@gonzo: Yes, I think that one can sometimes learn something through a breakup. If the reason is "your alcoholism," and the alcoholic has been denying that the drinking is a problem, perhaps the loss of someone she loves will help wake her up to the seriousness of her problem and she'll be motivated to make some healthy changes. But I think that if the issue had come up between the couple before, perhaps multiple times, the person with the drinking problem would know that was a big deal for the partner. I expect that a breakup of a long-term relationship for that reason under those circumstances would be precipitated by an alcohol-related event: a job lost, a DUI received, an accident occurring, a fight breaking out, what-have-you. I imagine that the non-drinker would have a this is the last straw reaction and say "you know what? I can't take this anymore. I can't stand to see how your drinking is taking over your life and you're not the person you were when we met. I don't want to stick around for the fatal car crash. It's over" or something to that effect. So under those circumstances, I can't imagine someone saying, "I'm breaking up with you because of your drinking" and that statement coming as a surprise to the dumpee/alcoholic.

Fighting about money is one of the top reasons for divorce, and both parties know what their fights were about, and yet I doubt that many people change their approach to how they handle money in the future. At best, most hopefully try to find someone who takes a more compatible approach to themselves.

All I've ever learned from a breakup in which I was dumped and didn't want the relationship to end is that I somehow wasn't something enough for the guy.
161
Glad you've brought the conversation back to an adult tone, nocute.
Philo, lost in God knows where land/
and Cat, dressing himself in different outfits for some imaginary beach party.. what has been unleashed here.
And Dan sick, so the questions are of no help. And me with a headache from drinking last night.
Just one Qu,
nocute. This guy, who fucked your friend, then left you for her.. Why would you want to know his reasons at all?
Surely, both of them, you just kick to the curb? Him a cad, she a lousy friend.
Your much younger self, cared?
162
LavaGirl: I was 21 when that happened. I simultaneously lost my best friend and my boyfriend (the loss of the best friend was much harder). I asked in the same way that all jilted lovers ask: wanting to know why and how someone could do what they did. It was a dumb question, a sort of "what does she have that I don't have." I was angry and hurt, feeling humiliated. Why do people ever ask stuff like that?

I mourned her loss for about 18 months, and then we took tentative steps to reconnect. That was 30 years ago, more or less, and she's now my best friend in the world. I don't know what either of us would do without the other one. As for the guy, we saw each other once or twice at weddings--including my friend's to someone else (the two of them lasted about 10 months, much of it spent feeling guilty, apparently)--about 25 years ago. We're Facebook friends these days.

You may think I'm a fool or a weakling for not considering him a cad and her a lousy friend forever, though they certainly were both those things at the time. I am a firm believer in maintaining friendships if they were founded on something real; life's too short to stay alienated. Besides, that guy and I would never have worked as a couple in the first place. I married a guy who, though we didn't work out forever, was much better for me, and he married--and is still married to--a woman who makes him happy. There's no reason now for any of us to be angry at one another.
163
Girl On The Move: If a guy (or gal) wants to spend time with you, he or she will make the time to do so. You may notice that this person probably has time to do all manner of other things, like hanging out with friends, or playing games, or watching sports, etc. When they tell you they just don't have time to date, they're trying to spare your feelings as to what the real reason is, and that real reason may just be that they're not all that into you.

I know you're into him, but if you have to tell someone else to tell him to date you, he's just not interested. Find someone who likes you as you are, and who doesn't require that you be someone different. One who has time to spend with you. You'll find the relationship to be far less stressful than it would be with this guy.

You deserve someone who's right for you.
164
I don't think you a fool, nocute.
Close, intimate heart friends, are hard to come by. My closest friend, a woman I went to Uni with. Still the same intensity of friendship, we had as young women. Though we live in different states, our
Almost daily texts are life blood to me.
165
Don't mind me, I'm just enjoying reading the thread.
166
Now, Lava, itā€™s not quite Fair Dinkum for you to pose as bringing the Adult back to this convo, after a long digression on the etymology of booooobs. Which I always found at least a bit more...respectful than tits. Ninnies just creeps me out, man. Philo fell into my word-spun web, but thatā€™s no reflection on her.
Nocute, hard to comment without knowing the hows and whys. Back in ā€™89, I got fucked out of $250 in earnest/rent money. That amount means less to me now, than it did to me then, but Iā€™ll never start thinking that it was an OK act on the landlordā€™s part. Though I could be convinced by a convincingly sincere story about where that money was going...
Anyone can change. James Brown, the famous football player, had a passage in his autobiography on Otto Graham, a hardline racist, who was a rotten manager of the Redskins, had a heart attack, got some perspective, became a lovely person in his last years. Then again, one of my first clients here in Charleston was a stubby white racist like Otto, fired him, heā€™s most likely still the same and the best we can say about him is that he exhales carbon dioxide, which is needed by plants.
My own ex-wife was a truly rotten person when I knew her, and she blew up enough bridges that I had no desire at all to know her after the divorce. Is she different now? Donā€™t know, kind of doubt it. If you had a comfortable reconciliation with your former bestie, I can only offer sincere congratulations, we ainā€™t all that lucky.
168
Hey Grizelda, how you doing?
169
Cat, only talked about boobs, because it was/ is the only interesting point to take from this bunch of Dan's letters.
I attempted to bring a little truth to the story.
I know you het guys think Breasts were put there, just for your pleasure.
Just saying that ain't the whole truth. It's also a milk bar for the very young.

Hunter; thanks for those words of wisdom.
170
In a pinch, it interests me that I can paraphrase the Dean in Maurice. (Oof, how dated!) LW1's gynosupremacist claim may have been the most *impressive* point of the bunch, but saving a potentially sweet boy from becoming a straight-chasing drip strikes me as much more *important*. Which is more *interesting* is open to interpretation.

Well done, Ms Cute, being able to reconcile.

Back at home with something passing for heat in circulation. Luckily it's late enough in the winter that it probably doesn't matter.
173
Passenger seat, Hunter?
No way. Women drive the world. Despite the mammoth effort of males the whole world wide, it is women's creative power/ or potential for;
That is really keeping this show on the road.
175
I'm back, everyone! Did you miss me?

LW1: "Because boobs"? "Because boobs"? I have a very strong hunch that the real reason this guy dumped GOTM is because he wants a woman with brains AND boobs. GOTM is either totally up herself (the women where Guy lives don't have boobs? hello?), horribly immature, or has a really poor sense of humour, all of which are completely believable as dealbreakers. Grow up, honey; no one is obligated to date you because you, like 50% of the population, have boobs. Sheesh.
176
@172 - I know, right? Itā€™s like that fair ride that showed up in Zombieland, where you go up slowly then plummet down.
179
except for the pseudo-erudite-prick-with-"little-men"-complex (the few in on the dumb joke), for all others GOTM is, via the letter, telling dude to go fuck himself, which the LW would not have done had he had the maturity to be honest, or respected the LW's explicit request for the truth, it's not a serious letter, and even if the dude did so OK, LW would promptly change position and then explicitly say "Fuck You"

Yes, BAD, Dan dolls out stupid advice in every column, however every dumb suggestion could easily be remedied by changing only the part about lying about it and/or to quit being so ignorant and restrictive in his view of a person's sexuality with gay/bi/straight labels

Again THTL, she didn't feel obligated to tell you she took had a Dom, and furthermore that he was a passive aggressive prick, which can be very confusing but now you know, hopefully that will make her easier to forget

COB, if your friend isn't an asshole and truly is your friend, he is likely sexually very much into to you. However thanks to enforced tradition, bigotry from right wing, and even ignorance such as Dans (not respecting that your personal private life only needs to be brought under public scrutiny unless you desire to hear the criticism of ignorants who have nothing to do with your personal, private life) if it wasn't for all of these fuckwits, having influence over your intimate relationships, your bestie would likely have already escalated the intimate social acts,

which would have been a good thing, as even if he wasn't discouraged by the public in his private dealings, you'd quickly know whether or not your crush feelings were just the beginning, or how foolish you'd been thinking a Seattlin would ever be respectful enough, or honest enough to know and understand what Love is
180
Mr. Ven: You're right that the most important issue, or the one most worth addressing because there's a friendship at stake is COB's. It's the height of arrogance to assume that everyone is interested in you, and it's cruel to test someone you're not interested, and it is utterly crazy-making to try and read mixed signals like those COB's friend is sending, and it will be a frustrating future if he chases after straight men. And his friend is either oblivious, which seems impossible given that this behavior is new, also interested but unsure of making the first move, curious, or deliberately teasing COB for an ego boost. Maybe such young men aren't used to girls showing obvious sexual interest so he finds this heady, but if that's what's going on, it's unfair to COB.

COB, I think, needs to assume that this is non-sexual and shows no interest, and read nothing into it, even if that's not the case. If the friend wants to pursue something, it needs to be up to him to do it and to be explicit for both their sakes.
181
I missed you Fan. Wondered where you'd gone.
182
@ven: I see LW1 as more of a mammosupremacist.

@sissoucat: It worked!
183
GOTM reminded me of this one.
184
@168 LavaGirl: Hey sweet sis from Australia! I'm doing great lately; I have a wonderful new general practitioner from the VA clinic (transferred my medical records from the Seattle VA closer to where I live). She's impressed with my health improvements for the better---continuing with seeing my equally amazing naturopath and gynecologist. No more blood pressure medication!! Whooppeeee!

The discussion about breasts caught my attention. Mine are sadly a bit saggy. Nothing I can do, my ob-gyn says---it's gravity with time and age, and she doesn't recommend reduction surgery (waste of money, blood, sweat, & tears--gravity will just prevail again later). Plus, one boob is bigger than the other (and---I once married an even BIGGER boob)!
I dunno---the folks at radiology say all checks out fine, though.
Such is life at 50+....
185
Ohhh, CRAP! Now I can't get the Blood, Sweat & Tears song, "Spinning Wheel" lyrics out of my head: "What goes up... must come down...!"
LOL
187
@186: Oh, I wouldn't say there's no-one loving me, Hunter.

188
@auntie griz: "spinning wheels got to go round."

I went to HUMP! in San Francisco last night--it was even better than last year! Thanks, Dan, for taking it on the road. And I loved the way SF represented with "Glory Hole!"
189
These last comments remind me of a girl named Jennifer (cute sturdy bike messenger) who, when I was working at the Vault, asked me in all seriousness for the exercises to make her breasts firmer. I had to tell her tactfully that if I had that secret, my house would be so big itā€™d be Monday on one end and Wednesday on the other. Have since wondered if I shouldā€™ve pitched ā€˜vigorous but artful manual massage, for a start.ā€™ She had great cheekbones....
190
Ms Cute - Very sound. It's also possible that what we may have here could be a homonormative straight boy - an asset of greater rarity than most boyfriends.

Now I'll have all those Merchant-Ivory films wandering through my brain all night. Poor Morgan.

Dr Sean - You, of course, are the expert.
191
@188 nocutename: "Ride a painted pony, let the spinning wheel rise...."
HUMP! was in San Fransisco? Sorry I missed it!

@189 Cat Brother: If you learn the secret, would you please let me know, too?

Anybody with good, helpful advice on breast-firming exercise(s)?
192
@186: Cat Bro, I know that not all situations are equal and not everyone can remain friends or return to being friends with people that have done them wrong. I didn't mean to suggest that my way is the only way of being, but to address LavaGirl's point that I should have kicked both my friend and boyfriend to the curb and not looked back I'm also still great friends with my ex-husband. I am lucky.
193
Griz, why would you think to have Breast reduction? And yes, the joys of being an older woman.
Embrace it, I say.

Venn, I try not to respond to questions from homosexual males. Cause I don't know the signals. Of course that boy's Qu is important.
194
@179: Seattlin, Dirt? I like it.
195
COB "had to share a bed?" C'mon, one of the most frustrating things to do is share a bed with someone you want to fuck, but can't. I'd rather sleep on the floor. I'd get more sleep on the floor.
196
Went to see 50 Shades of Grey today.
Have no idea what everybody is going on about.
Great movie.beautifully acted.
That girl, is a gem. And she was true to herself. And she enjoyed herself.
The actor. I found he handled the, yes stereotype rich man, with complexity. Coiled crazy.
I saw that he loved her. And she loved him.
In the D/s scenes, they talked of safe words.
In the scenes themselves, they both looked like they were having fun.
At the end, she was true to herself.
197
Ms Thinking - The joys of youth; perhaps it was all forward progress.

Ms Lava - Nothing wrong with a principled pass. I'm inclined to agree with your response to Ms Grizelda.
198
NoCute - Didn't think you were generalizing. Like everyone else, I envy you your good luck in not being at odds with those people years later.

Auntie G - Seriously, there are no such exercises. Though I say it myself, I know more exercises, weird and otherwise, than pretty much anyone else you're likely to meet, and nope. Breasts (unlike the ass) are not muscles, they can't be firmed thru exertion, which is why female bodybuilders might have hugely hypertrophied pectoral muscles, but either get implants or go about flat. If bench presses/flies/et al grew boobs, they'd all look like Christy Canyon.
I should have invited Jen down to Tir Na Nog to hear about her upcoming summer in an Alaskan cannery and to explain the limits of breast manipulation, it was those cyclist thighs of hers that used to invade my classwork.
Jack LaLanne's wife was on Howard Stern, who noticed that she had a great set, which she claimed was due to lots of pushups. It was too bad, hearing Mr Clean-American's wife lying to the public like that...
Still Thinking - agree, with part of the frustration not being sure if the other person isn't thinking the same thing. Your attraction to the person x blood alcohol level, divided by perceived awkwardness if you get turned down, seems to be the formula as to whether you actually make that pitch.
199
@181: Thank you Lava! I went to Istanbul for a holiday, beautiful city. I should have spent all week there!
200
@193 LavaGirl: Thank you for your kind words of support (no pun intended!).
I dunno---everything else is perky and healthy---I'm just feeling like....Sandra Bullock
in Gravity right now, boob-wise. @196: Now you've gotten me curious about 50 Shades of Grey.
@197: vennominon: Thank you, Ven. I guess beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder.
@198 Cat Brother: Thank you, too, for responding to my questions. I guess it's something I knew already; my gynecologist said the same thing. Breasts have no muscles, so they can't be firmed up, and reduction surgery (agreed, too, with LavaGirl) is a waste, because after all the time and expense, gravity would prevail again. *sigh* Okay--I just have to live with it.
At least I don't have horrifically grotesque Overlook Hotel lobby-like menstrual periods anymore. NovaSure blessedly cured that ill.

Griz has a dumb question for everybody, regarding my distancing myself healthily away from my much older sisters and brother, all three born within the previous decade before me:
My oldest sis, at 61, now thinks she's my grandmother; my older sis is disconsolately living like a former queen in exile, and my brother is the unreachable star who can't be bothered.
Question: Is it a wise move to bypass any summer reunions with them yet again this year, too?
The only reason I ask is that my sibs are the only remaining blood family members I have left besides my nieces, nephews & great-nephew. I have been soul searching lately, and just can't relate to them much, anymore (too much exposure to Hallmark cards earlier in life?). I have stopped contacting my sibs by phone and keep in touch with them through email. This is mainly because my oldest sis LIVES to argue, and would send the game into extra innings if she could. Oldest sis keeps trying to guilt trip me, claiming that '[our parents] would be hurt if [we] didn't get together'. Of my sisters and brother, all I see are three selfish, spoiled children who never grew up, and who cleverly managed to dodge responsibility. The same could apply to me, too; they have always seen me as a dumb kid. So I guess all four of us sibs, despite what blood ties we have, will be dumb kids when the dust settles.
Thoughts? Comments are appreciated. I have lately taken the "Calvin & Hobbes" approach: 'if you can't please them, please yourself--and be good to you--instead.'
201
Auntie griz, or even: "since you can't please them, please yourself." Go to a family reunion if you don't want to be stand-offish, but keep your expectations super low and make sure you have a way to escape all the unpleasantness whenever necessary. That means having your own transport and staying at a hotel or with a friend, rather than with your siblings. Good luck with your decision!

202
Auntie Griz-- On the subject of sagging breasts-- I agree with what your gyn told you but would add that there's a lot to be said for a professional bra fitting with a good professional. There's no change to the breasts underneath, but the lift for the psyche can be terrific. Clothes look better, even old t-shirty like clothes; everything just feel better. The first time I spent $100 on a bra I thought it was ridiculous. Now I consider the money well spent.

On spending time with family-- Are your sibs more horrible together because they gang up on you? If so, continue to communicate by email. Then visit with them on your own terms one-on-one. If not, I actually recommend attending the reunion after doing a bit of prep. Concentrate on behaviors. Make a list. Not "she's spoiled" which is a statement about a state of being, but "my sister finished all the cake." Not "he's a bully," but "my brother yells at me about Rush Limbaugh." It can be a long list, but make sure everything on it starts with an action verb like ate, said, stomped, tattled, yells, and is fairly specific. Then look at the list and decide which behaviors you can ignore (with an enigmatic slight smile) and which you've decided ahead of time cross lines and will cause you to leave the room.
205
Hunter, canā€™t agree with you and Cocky on the whys for ā€˜because boobs,ā€™ it doesnā€™t scan with the rest of her letter. Weā€™ll need a line call from the LW herself.
Griz, on the one hand, we do have to concede some things to age...and on the other, thereā€™s a lot we donā€™t. A hundred years back or so, if you were 35, people would tell you, ā€œOf course, your teeth are half gone, and the rest are yellow or brown, the fuck you want? Youā€™re middle aged!ā€
Now at that age, people would tell you not to be ridiculous, we got Sonic-cares, and WaterPiks, and dentists, so brush and floss and all that shit, and you can chew without pain well into your 70ā€™s and beyond. Funny how that logic seems obvious when applied to our teeth, itā€™s often not extended to our spinal erectors and glutes (two of my favorites.)
Dan often talks about how women in our society are not allowed to have sexual agency, never, or at least, not ā€˜till a certain age, act how they feel. Well, twenty years ago, I was seeing women, young and old, who really had no idea of how strong they were capable of getting, and itā€™s still going on now. Breasts are one thing, the rest of your health is another. Donā€™t start acceding now, now is the time to double down the other way.
Bit of a hobby horse that I ride often, but a guyā€™s gotta do something for kicks.

Remember, a strong person is strong on the BACK of their body.
And WaterPiks kick ass.
207
Griz@200; if you are into seeing young attractive people on screen, having what looks like hot sex.
Then yes. Go see 50 Shades.
209
Ms Grizelda - Not my area, of course, but you might be able to take Judy Cornwell as an example of someone able to use her figure of a certain age to good advantage.

As for your siblings, you seemed suddenly to hit on a winning formula last time, which appears in no need of alteration. The only thing I have to add to Ms Erica's and Ms Crinoline's suggestions is, if you do decide to attend, to wangle that it be in congenial surroundings. One of my brothers (the rapist) I won't see on principle, but there's always the chance I could sit in the same room with him for half an hour if it were arranged to occur during Wimbledon.

Finally, on whether to see that film that apparently only Ms Lava could love, I get to emulate Antony Blanche and say that you might as well go to see the film, as it's so tedious saying you haven't seen the monstrosity du jour if you haven't. (You'll recall that, in Brideshead Revisited, Antony was going away for the weekend somewhere and accordingly decided to look at the book everyone would be discussing rather than claim never to have read it when he hadn't when Boy Mulcaster and his crowd of hearties showed up to duck him in Mercury, an invasion which Antony defused by telling them that anyone with the least knowledge of sexual psychology would be aware that nothing would give him greater ecstasy than to be manhandled by those meaty boys. "If any of you wishes to be my partner in joy, come and seize me at once!" He agreed to accompany them to the fountain, with none of them getting anywhere within arm's reach, where he struck a few attitudes and found it quite refreshing.)
210
Mr Hunter - High school is too early to write anyone off as a straight chaser, but it is an excellent time to help him find a better path.
212
Grizelda;@200. Re you family.
It is for you to decide. You know that.
Do these people make you feel good about yourself, when you are with them?
Warm your heart? Make you love life?

213
@201:EricaP: Skipping family reunions is awkward for me, because there are people I would love to see and haven't in a long time because of my own choices. But old bad habits die hard, and my oldest sis has only gotten worse with age (like the kooky old age-defying abductor of Rapunzel in Tangled). There sadly appears to be no getting past those I'd prefer to never see and deal with again just to be able to see relatives I'd love to see but can't on an individual basis. It's all or nothing in our family.
@202 Crinoline: Hmm--I like your idea of getting fitted for a better bra--looks like a trip to Elaine Bryant's is in order for me, and soon. I wonder if they've got bras with...leopard spots?
I need a custom-fitting bra; I'm very fiberous, and one boob is bigger than the other. At least nothing cancerous like lumps has been discovered yet.
Yes---when together, my sisters are exactly like Driscilla and Anastacia from Cinderella and constantly henpeck me. My brother either sides with them--or slips away altogether. They frequently devalue and trivialize me, and so it's hard to be respectful when their behavior is so intolerably juvenile.
@205 Cat Brother: Thank you for the helpful suggestions on dental and oral hygiene. I'm paying more attention to my teeth and gums now. I have a lot less back pain since my weight loss.
@207 &@212 LavaGirl: Wow--I am truly curious now about 50 Shades of Grey. Checking theater dates / show times. I really don't feel warm, fuzzy feelings around my sibs. I'm not sure if I ever really did, though, because of the age gap (everyone else = 7 years, 9 months+ older).
If they're disappointed (don't believe hurt), it's most likely because I'm no longer keeping things status quo so conveniently for them. Oh, well. I hang out instead with the love of my life and those who do keep me happily warm 'n' fuzzy.
@209 vennominon: Please elaborate further on Judy Cornwell regarding my age 50+ figure.

Griz update: no calls or emails from older sibs lately. My father told me on a warm summer morning about three months before he joined my equally beloved mother that we pay the consequences at the end of our lives for the choices we make. I have been pondering his words carefully, but want as few regrets as possible when it's my time to go.
I honestly believe that one reason that my parents went too soon is that my two oldest siblings were so clingy and dependent upon them emotionally, mentally, physically, and financially, and, along with my brother, were all three born so close together. Mom and Dad got to deal with just me, one-on-one, when I came along later.
214
@213, can you maybe feel sorry for your sibs, then? And just try to hold your tongue or leave the room when the henpecking gets fierce? If this is the only opportunity you have to see the ones you do want to see, then maybe you can find the patience to get through the hard parts with your sanity intact. Good luck!
215
Auntie Griz - I agree with EricaP on the strategy of having your own place to stay and own transport when getting together with difficult relatives. Although I visited my parents, I did not sleep under their roof for decades after I finally confronted my dad over his abuse, simply because I did not feel safe, and I had friends in the area I could stay with - much more fun. I gave myself permission to leave the room or leave the house whenever I felt like it. That way I could hang out with other family members I wanted to see, but still keep my anxiety level manageable.

Mr. Venn - yes, I definitely experienced a shift from "when in doubt, try it out" to "when in doubt, just get out" as I got older. As a 20-something, I was willing to take some risks and handle some hurt for the chance to broaden a hot girl's horizons ... At that age, in general, I was more likely to try sleeping in the same bed with someone when it was unclear what might happen, or when they'd made it clear they weren't interested. A few stupid, uncomfortable, sleepless nights cured me of it, though, Cat Brother.
216
@214: Like I said, it's like dealing with Driscilla and Anastacia! All the older relatives bail out of pitching in. It's bullshit. Who of sound mind can feel sorry for people like that? NO, I can NOT "have patience and deal with them"! My patience level with my sibs, their spouses, one remaining aunt by marriage and a few cousins has been long exhausted. They're not worth feeling sorry for. All they "miss" is a patsy to drag around cruelly on a short leash.
If you have brothers and /or sisters, relatives, et al. and get along well with them Erica, be thankful. You're truly fortunate. I have had no choice but to move on and up.
@215: Still Thinking: Thanks---having my own blessed car and a getaway plan helps, as well as inviting a friend along. In my years of horrendously horrible experience at family gatherings, however, especially when our beloved parents older and ill, avoidance of remaining family and relatives has been healthiest for me.

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