Columns Apr 1, 2015 at 4:00 am

Never Enough

Comments

107
103 between the boobs ( if they are big enough)!
108
You too, Fan.
109
@103: To quote a (very) old Savage Love letter from the early 90s: "If our ears were big enough, they would stick their dicks in there too." Interestingly, Dan advocated for non-penetrative sex in an early 90s column too.
110
That an orifice now? Amos101.
Then the definition of an orifice has been changed. And nobody thought to mention it?
111
@Marcelina: Before you run your mouth about blow jobs, the requirement is that you actually have to give one.

No thanks, I'll just stick to dating women who enjoy giving blow jobs and avoid the ones who don't.
112
@104: There doesn't need to be a "power dynamic" in oral sex. For some, it is an act of submission. Others of us simply enjoy giving our partner pleasure. Positions? May be chosen on the basis of comfort alone. It can be difficult, for instance, to bend a guy's dick to a convenient angle when he is lying down.

I will say there is a difference between active and passive cock-sucking, in that some guys like to thrust their dicks into your throat, which can be horribly unpleasant for the recipient. When the giver is able to "run the suck", on the other hand, there are fewer choking hazards and it's generally a lot more pleasant. Unless you're looking for humiliation, which some blowjob givers are.

And going back to the comment at @37: just reading this makes me want to give my partner a DVD and send him off for some solo fun. Shudder.
113
Jesus Marcelena. Don't give them ideas. Suddenly cosmetic surgeons will be giving the girls really big ear cavities.
114
Choking hazards, Fan? Women are dying for this now. Price of love, I guess.
115
@71, BiDanFan You're right. I should have said "porn addiction" instead of "sex addiction"; relating to the first letter. Thought people would be all over that, but the conversation has taken a slightly different tack- i.e. ethics of porn instead of whether porn addiction is a thing and whether the boyfriend's use of porn is an addiction.
116
@115: Aha, makes sense -- I wondered if your comment was meant to have gone onto a different thread (possible given the separation of comments from letters in the new format).

@114: Not sure if anyone's ever choked to death on a cock before -- I suspect the owner of said cock would remove it if he saw his partner turning blue!
118
@117: I don't watch porn, and I knew about this. Impossible with my measurements!
119
@103: Oh also, you could curve your hand into a circle and that would be another ready-made orifice. Bottle of lube and/or foreskin and you're good to go.
120
Ms Fan - You're in good form today on the whole. Do you think it weakens 105 too much to change "the other" to "any other"?
122
@120: I pondered that distinction, yet with the two characters in question being such extreme caricatures of Man and Woman, both taking the absolute party-line stand on Their Side Being Right, it seemed apt to polarise in this instance.

Marcelina, in other words, is the kind of woman that gives feminists a bad name, and Eudaemonic is the kind of man that gives feminists a need to exist in the first place.

Not to say there are no trans* people who are dickheads! I have met those as well. But these two are sexist dickheads, and cis privilege is required for that.
124
@100: "I KNOW that femdom porn exists."

Ah, some truth at last! Did you know it existed back when you wrote the comment about how nothing like that exists?

I'm curious whether you're incredibly ignorant and have recently become a little less so, or whether you're admitting that you're just lying and being stupid about it. Seems like you're denying the first one.

@122: "Eudaemonic is the kind of man that gives feminists a need to exist in the first place"

People who think men and women should be treated equally are not the kind of people that give feminists a reason to exist... unless the things feminists claim to believe are lies. I guess that's you're point?

If you're admitting that "feminism," to you, is just your way of rebranding your favorite kinds of sexism, then yes, I agree. Your kind of feminism does only need to exist when your privileges seem threatened. Either you're an idiot, or you're slandering feminism really shamefully. Marcelina isn't the only person here giving feminism a bad name
125
@121: No, being a FEMALE porn actress in a CONVENTIONAL porn scene is not more dignified than working at Walmart. But because you are a male (gay or straight, doesn't matter, still a male) who possibly lacks the ability to empathize with a female, you can't understand why that is. Watch 10 minutes of a typical porn scene from RedTube or wherever the fuck heterosexual males get their porn fix from. If you think there is anything at all "dignified" in the way that female porn stars are treated in mainstream, conventional, heterosexual porn, then you're either a) blind, b) deluded and/or in serious denial. Half the time they aren't even treated like human beings. GTFO.
126
Ms Fan - No disagreement. I was actually thinking more along the lines of the rising generation, their idea of a good many genders, and how that may shift the dynamics of conversing about orientation. Alas, no time to do that side line justice now - perhaps later.
127
@101 marcelina - in response i propose that if you have never stuck your dick in anything...you stop trying to tell men what they are thinking while they are doing it. You can't seem to admit that your opinions are best guesses...and not fact. You are in no position to tell anyone (man or woman) WHEN they should feel degraded, then dismiss them if they do not agree. There are no absolutes when it comes to human emotion. Everyone reacts differently....often to the same exact stimuli. Your arguments paint you into a corner....and your defense is to go on the offensive. Stop speaking in absolutes and a conversation might actually take place. (ok..commence with angry retort that calls me names)
128
@Marcelina: Watch 10 minutes of a typical porn scene from RedTube or wherever the fuck heterosexual males get their porn fix from.

It's curious that an expert on het male porn like yourself doesn't even know where to find it.

FYI - last night I (a het male) searched for "edging blow jobs" on bing's video search, and the results were quite dignified. This one (NSFW) was my favorite.
129
These are very interesting opinions on sex as Lego by very special hipsters with very high self-esteem.
But, why did my comments 20, 86 get deleted? Prizes for correct answers below. Hint: starts with an I and it is still blowing.
130
Agree with @31 - hide your damn browsing history. If WIFEY's husband can't figure out how to go incognito on-line, perhaps he can call Marcelina's boyfriend described @61 who totally does NOT watch porn.
131
@129: Yes, you are still blowing.
132
@130: Can we at least all agree that mainstream porn is boring? I think all this back and forth may be unnecessary (as if it ever is...)
133
@132 - Oh, I will definitely agree on that. Especially if you're talking about mainstream het porn. Dullsville.
134
121: Also, porn is not "just acting." The sex isn't simulated. All instances of lengthy deep pound ass fucking, gagging blow jobs, and degrading name calling are, in fact, REAL EVENTS that happen in real time to live human women. Go ahead and jerk off to their pain and discomfort, as well as to the general message that women are to be humiliated and used as fuckholes. But don't give us any bullshit rationalizations about it being "just acting." It is snuff. Not no damn "acting."
135
@134: "It is snuff"

You can make your point without exaggerating to the point of fibbing. It does you and your premise no favors.
136
@131 wait, blowing is bad now? Will you call me a fgot next?
137
@129 - guy who wants to insert a political agenda into a love and sex column.... fyi, the moderators aren't sitting here reading every comment. They delete comments that other posters report via the "report this" link. I know your conspiracy theory is far more titillating... but... yeah... (i make no comment about the content of your deleted posts, so dont bother replying with incredulity)
138
Also, nice to see that some things you just can't have on these blog comments.
I's not homo-phobia. No guessers?
139
@137 Fail at mind reading there, little buddy. But will *your* comment be deleted if I report it?

Anyway, my notes were about something on the page these comments refer to. Perhaps I have to fill in a different form or something. I'm pretty bad at bureaucracy.
140
@AynRand: Don't derail. I took a bit of poetic license calling it "snuff"; I would hope that a group of intelligent readers (such as I take the fans of this columns to be) would understand that I meant "a painful/horrifying act happening in reality," not "actual murder happening in reality." Grow up.
141
There is a lot of amateur porn out there. Neither the women or the men are getting paid to perform.
142
Nahoo; have no idea why those comments were deleted.
Hail
Freedom of speech
143
@142: They're a troll that's had several accounts banned for harassing Dan about dumb shit.
144
@140: If you want to be taken seriously, don't use juvenile comparisons.
145
Thanks Hunter@117. Not enough porn?
The only porn I watch, are music videos. Good looking young men playing music.
And that is still not an orifice. But by all means, you guys, change the meanings of words to suit the Occassion.
146
@marcelina I think the breakdown in communication here is you are arguing two different things, and when they call you ignorant, it is being inexperienced with mainstream porn, because you seem to be confusing it for some of the more hardcore stuff. I think it is a reasonable thing to say that those videos are degrading to THOSE women (I would disagree on the women in general part) who consent to being degraded within that scene. But that is a niche (however large), not conventional, and exists with the genders flipped, though that form is not as popular. Power play is popular in sex! That shouldn't shock you, and as long as it is between consenting adults, I don't think you have any place to tell them how they should feel. That's a form of feminism that I had thought got phased out.

What I've seen on mainstream porn, there is a lot of foreplay on both sides, and whether they do or not, the women behave as if they are enjoying themselves, and it wouldn't be interesting if they weren't. The ones with a woman with mascara running down her face or grimacing in discomfort are not mainstream.
147
@146: You know, the phrases "women behave as if they are enjoying themselves" and "a woman with mascara running down her face or grimacing in discomfort" are not mutually exclusive.
Just sayin'.
148
@nocute here here. One person's horror is another's fantasy. Banning consensual behavior to save people from themselves is the only logical conclusion to some of these absolutists.... because they know better. The far right and the far left have similar goals. hooray.
149
Chairman; it's just a discussion. Ideas. Obviously, with consenting adults- do whatever they like.
Being reared a Catholic- and this day- Good Friday here- brings up memories of paying homage to some poor fucker nailed to a cross- my sex was tampered with. Distorted and twisted.
I know nothing of how my sex would have turned out if those idiots, hadn't been let loose on me.
150
Dan - I'm with ya on 99% of your last response, but you should have mentioned the caveat that you need a very secure husband to broach this topic. While the hubby is the lucky beneficiary of an increased sex drive, it's (at least seemingly) because she finds the neighbour (<- I've always wanted to write that with a "u", even though I'm not British!) more attractive. He's borderline being used - she sees neighbor, gets turned on, bones husband because of those damn vows and shit, then dreams about neighbor after.

I know that's not what she wrote, and it's making more than its fair share of assumptions, but I feel you should have made the disclaimer that hubby would have to be a very open-minded and secure individual to take that kind of info.

Be Inconspicuous Guy, Cuz Our Children Know Dogs Own Clowns
152
Of course, Hunter.
One can't control the unleashed forces of the Patriarchal Male.
One can only try and re educate.
Be nice to have more men around, who throw off that power structure.
154
the porn arguement is so so old and tired. i know so may men who love to watch lady on lady pron. the lesbea channel. no dicks in the picture at all!
155
another observation....if someone says that such and such behavior is so vitally important, the ultimate deal breaker, must have total compliance etc, etc it is almost always projection of some sort. they are usually guilty of the behavior (currently or in the past) that they they so strongly wish to patrol/prohibit/harangue their partner about. i have seen this 100s of times in both sexes in all bi,straight,gay relationships.
156
Hunter; women don't want their men de- masculinised. Whatever form that comes in. Their masculinity I mean.
All for the working model.
157
Ms Lava - Maybe it's time for WGTOW. I'll even give you a, "You go, girl!" (as said by Anne Robinson to RuPaul)
158
@Marcelina - You seem to upbraid and insult posters with equal opportunity, including even those who would be your natural allies if your posts weren't so over the top. Eudaemonic took the bait and ran with it, but most others seem to have offered reasonable comments or counter arguments, and in response got blasted. Nice strategy to win people to your cause!
BiDanFan got it right @105.
159
WGTOW, Venn? Wtf?
She's a force. No risk. Got a few years of words to get out. I'm all for loud mouthed feminists.
160
@Marcelina: porn is not "just acting."

At last, something we can agree on!

I'd say porn is one part theater, one part circus, and two parts athletic sport. Some of the stars are incredible sexual athletes, especially the power bottoms who can take a 10" cock up their ass to the hilt with a smile. That's more impressive than being able to slam dunk if you ask me. There should be an olympic gold medal for that.
161
Gonzo- this is a sex-addiction-free statement, though I'm sure you will be much more careful next time when you make a wish.
So… It is my very own observation that commercial porn took a sharp turn to the male side, where it already was to begin with, once the industry moved to video hence much cheaper production means (where abusive assholes often operated the cameras themselves as they were violently “face fucking” young women.)
Some ethical porn sprouted here and there, I got to watch some of it and it is good in a sense that it doesn’t always follow clichés and have a more realistic portrayal of real people, not to mention being guilt-free, but this line is still a long way away from mainstream. That said, I'd like to remind the audience that movies in general often give us fantasies and skewed visions of life. Pornography is not an exception here.
Quite possibly the most ethical porn “productions” nowadays can be found in those sites where people can publish their own stuff. Not that I watch it. Heavens no, of course I never published anything!
162
Marcellina- Not an endorsement nor a condemnation, just welcome to the forum.
163
@156: Speak for yourself. Some of us like our men as effeminate as possible.

And my point is amply illustrated by Eudaemonic stating he treats men and women equally, and Marcelina saying porn is "snuff" (her word) and then saying of course she didn't compare it to snuff. Black is white, freedom is slavery, it's women not men who have privilege, Eurasia has always been at war with Eastasia. Great laughs this morning.
164
@84: I've seen enough throat-fucking porn to know that I've never had anything close to it from any woman. Can't say I've jammed a soup spoon down the back of my throat, either, but I am pretty sure I wouldn't like it -- and also I could tell the difference between that and simply eating soup -- without having to literally try it out to make sure.
@85: Let's stay away from the banana analogies. Bananas get chewed up before they get swallowed.
@87: You seem to be really enjoying the idea that I might have been sucking cock, or possibly that I might be embarrassed by the suggestion.
165
@100: Gratuitous abuse doesn't even rise to the level of a logical fallacy, like ad hominem or straw man. But thanks for raising the level of discourse.
166
@101: Until you can articulate the difference between throat fucking and some desultory licking of the tip, maybe you are the one who should refrain from waxing lyrical about having two brain cells to rub together.
167
@LavaGirl, low 100's: LOL. You are on a roll. (not sarcasm. laughing.)
168
@140: How is the reader to differentiate your poetic license from the rest of your bloviation? They aren't nearly as different as you'd like to think.

Regarding prevalance of porn genres, I couldn't give you accurate demographics, but I will agree that there seems to be an awful lot of the degrading stuff, and comparatively less of the kind that is simply two people enjoying sex. Perhaps that's because there are a lot of different kinks out there to cater to. The sort where the woman appears to be genuinely enjoying the proceedings is preferable, but then that might just be good acting, while the other sort ranges from obviously fake enthusiasm, which isn't fun to watch, to clear discomfort, which also isn't fun to watch. But then I am pretty vanilla.
169
Using the "private browsing" feature is better than deleting the history. If the history is empty, your partner will know you were looking at porn and assume it was the worst type imaginable.
170
@164; Avast. That's the idea. You put your cock in a woman's mouth, let's just hope she likes you that day.
172
Fan; @163: that is still their expression of their masculinity. They are still men, yes?
I'm pretty sure my words covered men in all their masculine presentations.
173
Allen; @171. Really? You been reading any of these comments.
You try having a 10" cock rammed up your arse, and keeping a smile on your face.
176
@171: Actually, I find the idea of being dominated to be repulsive, but that's neither here nor there. I could very well love the idea of being tied up and spanked (I don't), and it would NOT invalidate what I said about mainstream porn being degrading and dehumanizing. What a bullshit argument.

And not that it's any of your business at all, but I have no "hang ups" about sex; I was never raped, abused, or mistreated (so much for your psychoanalysis, Dr. Fraud) and the men I've been with have always been nothing short of loving, caring, and compassionate.

See, the problem is that I've got this moronic thing I do called "thinking" (yes, credit to George Carlin for that quote) and I don't just roll over and accept patriarchal bullshit. There is a very real need for people like me to exist, both men and women. That need becomes highly apparent when dealing with leotards like yourself who shiver and project their own pathetic insecurities as soon as anyone dares to question elements of the patriarchal structure that you (in your male privilege) take for granted. Think about it (if it doesn't strain you too much): you don't know anything about me, and your AUTOMATIC line of defense was to assume that I like to be degraded and abused, simply because I spoke out against degrading and male-controlled pornography. What does that say about you and your ? No, really, what do you think it says?
177
@172: Not trying to start an argument -- there are enough going on this thread! I am feeling in a playful mood. My point was only that some women like their men manly, others believe the less manly the better. Viva variety!

@175: Uh... no it's not. Really. It's not.
178
@173: LavaGirl, don't even waste your breath. The ONLY way he could ever empathize with the typical female porn actress (mind you, most of them shoot multiple lengthy scenes daily), and how mentally, emotionally, and physically taxing these scenes are, would be if he actually went through it himself. Oh, and maybe if his daughter or sister was a porn actress. Men's empatho-meter seems to suddenly and magically go from 0 to 100 when it involves their own family.
179
So, LavaGirl, you think nobody actually enjoys anal sex? I can't imagine a worse place to make such a claim than Savage Love!

This is the mistake many of the female porn critics make. They wouldn't like what they see in porn being done to them, therefore no women can possibly like it. And since no women like it, men are being encouraged by the porn to force things on women that they don't like.
180
@175; Nope, it's not. But you're welcome to take a dick down your own throat while you're supremely aroused and then report back to us, based on empirical evidence, if your gag reflex was indeed "suppressed." Y'all are some funny-ass people.
181
@179: Could you have your head farther up your ass than you already do?
182
Oh, Marcelina, how dare you quote the great George Carlin in favor of artistic censorship! Shame, shame. This is a man who said he liked to run into feminist meetings and shout, "Hey, which one of you cute little cupcakes wants to come home and cook me a nice meal and give me a blowjob?!"

"Now I've probably got the feminists all pissed off at me because I'm joking about rape. Feminists want to control your language. Feminists want to tell you how to talk." -- George Carlin
183
Allen @179; did I say that? Don't think so.
A 10" cock, like I said. You try it. As a woman.
It's obvious some women are degraded on some porn films. You think this is some sort of game? Violating women, to satisfy some men's needs to see women treated like that.
184
@183: Right. Exactly.
185
@182: Nice try, leotard. I suggest you YouTube or Google "George Carlin - women are crazy, men are stupid." It's a LONG diatribe denouncing the patriarchy and siding and empathizing with women, who pretty much got the shittiest deal possible in life. Don't speculate until you listen to it/read it. It's a diatribe that pisses off angry little MRAs like yourself to high heavens, which makes it that much more wonderful.
186
The male inability to empathize with women will never cease to amaze me. There must be an evolutionary/biological advantage to this.
187
LavaGirl, you still aren't getting it. Not all women feel the way you do about sex. People are different. One of the most common fantasies of women is a rape fantasy. So even the more extreme rape fantasy porn isn't just for men. Some women are into it. When you speak out against porn, you're speaking out against many women's sexuality. Not everyone sees it as degrading, and even among the people who do, some find it exciting to fantasize about being degraded.

You might as well rail against films and books depicting crime. Ban Agatha Christie before everybody starts murdering upper class British people!

You aren't in charge of what other adults are allowed to think about!
188
LavaGirl, don't even bother with this leotard Allen Gilliam. You can't have an intelligent discussion with deluded MRAs. He still doesn't get it, and he never will, unless it PERSONALLY affects him in some way. For example, if his 19 year-old daughter stars in "Buttfuck Sluts Go Nuts Part 5" and comes away from it completely destroyed physically, emotionally, and mentally after being brutalized for two hours by a sociopathic, abusive asshole. As I said, most of these males defending degrading porn are unable to ever put themselves in a woman's shoes unless it's their own family. And sometimes not even then.
189
Allen. You being wilfully ignorant?
Nothing to do with how people have their sex
Talking about how some women are being exploited, in the making of some porn films. How some women are represented, in some porn films. In degrading and humiliating ways.
190
Allen; I do wish you well. Maybe just best we accept we don't see eye to eye,
Shake hands and try to never talk again.
193
I'm pretty sure the term "leotard" is politically incorrect.
194
Geez Marcelina; your boys didn't impress Hunter. You must be heartbroken.
195
@186: Yeah. And you're so good at empathising with men.

Marcelina, you are new to this forum so let me just give you a few hints for beginners.

There are men, and then there are MRAs. @Allen has never given any impression of being the latter. @179 makes a valid point about what's wrong with porn: It gives men the idea that all, or at least most, women like the kinds of things that women in porn are doing. As I've learned from this column, there are SOME women who DO enjoy being dominated and, yes, degraded by men. Some. It would be a big mistake to extrapolate and try these things on a partner without asking them first. This is a common theme in Savage Love. However, most men are in fact capable of separating fantasy from reality, are capable of seeing women as sex objects in a porn film and as human beings in their office. (Lookit me, empathising with men!)

Porn is like drugs. Some people like to take drugs. This is going to be true whether or not the drugs are legal. Where there is demand, there will be supply. Someone will step in to make money, even if there are risks. Making drugs illegal doesn't stop people from wanting to take them; getting on a soapbox and shouting "Just say no" doesn't stop people from wanting to take them. Legalising, regulating and taxing drugs ensures the supply is as safe as possible and the state benefits.

It's the same with porn. The desire to look at dirty pictures has existed since the dawn of time. There are nude drawings on cave walls, fer chrissake. Shouting about how "porn is bad" is not going to take away the demand for porn when most men and many women enjoy it. A better approach would be to regulate the porn industry, ensuring proper breaks and strong contracts that allow anyone to opt out of acts they don't want to participate in.

Someone else mentioned amateur porn, and I offer this as proof that some women actually do enjoy being filmed having sex and putting it on the internet, just because they enjoy being exhibitionists. Are they degrading themselves, exploiting themselves? Your views are far too narrow and won't help anyone. If your interest is in protecting adult film actors you are going about it the wrong way. Men (and women) ain't gonna stop looking, ever. You may as well try to stop gravity from making things fall.
196
yeah.... first thing that comes to mind with the poorly chosen "leotard" (in this context) is a man wearing a leotard. Then one has to assume that she is calling them sissies.... which seems insanely counterproductive coming from someone with her opinions. Marcelina, care to explain "leotard" in your own words? Can't say retard because its too offensive so you think you are being clever? Seriously, what gives? I want to know
198
Most women I know (and i am a hardcore liberal-since i know this post will otherwise be misconstrued by at least M)... find overly submissive men who are filled with empathy and caring and understanding and are constantly asking for permission to proceed, etc.... to be a huge turn off. Masculinity (in its most common definition that connotes physical strength/protection/etc) isn't something that should be attacked and broken down until a man is just a woman with a dick. There are plenty of emotionally healthy women on the planet who agree. These same women also find overbearing assholes with no empathy to be a huge turnoff. Finding a balance is what matters. Embrace the best parts of both instead of trying to make one like the other.
199
Fan, that's it then.
Pack up the tent, Marcelena. it's a topic that goes the rounds over and over.
Doesn't seem
To matter that lots of women write in complaining of it being a problem for Them. They are told to just suck it up-
Least that way their mouths are occupied.
And disagree Fan re Allan. Haven't seen evidence from his comments that he has much empathy for or understanding about women.
200
thanks urban dictionary... now which one is it...

A garment that covers the midsection of a woman, very similar to a bathing suit. Often worn with tights. Used for dancing and exercise

A person with the irrational belief that Leonardo DiCaprio is a good actor.

A retard who wears only leopard skins. You ever watch tarzan, what a leotard.

A Leotard is a cop that is retarded or generally just a dumb ass. Comes from the LEO which is short for law enforcement officer and tard as in retard.

A retarded dude named Leo.
201
Chairman, whose trying to make one like the other?
Empathy isn't the same as submission. And the definition of masculinity isn't contigent on porn watching, is it?
Personally, I don't give a rats arse who watches porn. I don't believe it has no effect on the minds of men who watch it, though.
What that effect is, well opinions just keep on coming about that.
202
lava - why support someone who allows for zero exceptions, preaches one way, etc? That doesnt seem like you. You seem up for conversation. I havent seen a single post from Marcelina that could be taken as one half of a conversation. She simply calls the addressee names, tells them they don't understand, pulls the "since you haven't experienced it, your opinion is invalid" card constantly.... and makes assumptions on the intent that will support her own agenda instead of asking anyone for clarity.... all while making absolute claims about what is degrading and what isn't.... (anyone with an ounce of sanity knows that feelings - like degradation, fear, love, insecurity - are not one size fits all no matter how loud you scream it)
203
@201- wasnt speaking specifically about porn... more about the male/female argument going on this week.
204
The most difficult part of porn for me,
Is the separation of sex from love.

Depends also on the frequency of watching porn. How often does a person go to it? Every other day, during a self pleasuring time.
Or every day, several times a day.
205
There is a dichotomy with porn consumption between the sexes. A man who needs the extra visuals to reach orgasm from masturbation is told to find ways to refrain from watching too much porn. A woman who needs the extra visuals to reach orgasm is told to embrace it because she deserves to get off just like a man does....

my take: do whatever you need to do to give yourself pleasure. If it becomes a problem in your life, do something about it.... just like anything else that requires self-moderation.... too much of anything can be construed as addiction, whether its food/drugs/porn...hell..even attention. All other things being equal for LW1, if the wife thinks its a problem...then it should be taken seriously by the husband....just like it would be if she wrote in to say he drank too much but wouldn't admit it. The problem is knowing whether she is being rational or not...and based on the rest of the letter... it is pretty hard to tell.
206
192: Whatever gave you the idea that I would care what impresses you? I give zero fucks, believe me. I live my life exactly how I want with no regard at all for your opinion. Imagine that!

193 & 196: The fact that you don't know what "leotard" means clearly shows that you aren't a hardcore SL reader. If you were, you would know that Dan invented the word some years ago as a PC form of "retard." I may be new to the forum, but I've been reading Savage Love since it began running in the Village Voice in the early 90s. Leotard.

194: ROTFL.

197: Clearly, you don't know anything about how the porn industry operates. There are testimonials GALORE of conventional porn actresses who stated that they were lied to about what type of scene they would be participating in, and once they were in the middle of it, they tried to back out but were told that they would not be paid at all if they refused to comply. The porn industry is fucking cruel and heartless. You just paint it in rosy colors because it makes you feel better.

207
Now i know. But i still won't use it myself. There is no such thing as a PC form of another more offensive word if its being used as a substitute for that word. One becomes the other....even if it was the mighty dan savage who coined it.
208
I remember when this comments section was about more than porn / gender wars and insults.
209
@205: What's the difference if she's being "rational"? If she feels uncomfortable about his porn use, then it's a problem. Her feelings don't get invalidated because you (or anyone else) feel she's being irrational.
210
i have no idea if she is being rational or not...as i said in my post... "its pretty hard to tell". But it DOES matter. And its possible to both validate someone's feelings AND need that person to play a role in changes. "i understand where you are coming from AND i need you to meet me half way"... is a pretty common occurrence in a healthy relationship.
211
@206: "Dan invented the word some years ago as a PC form of "retard."

Echoing 207, there is no such thing. When you use the word "leotard", it is obvious that you really want to say "retard". Do you go around calling black people "tiggers"? Or women "punts"?

You would seem a lot less strident if you could refrain from using language like that. Unless of course you are trying to be gratuitously offensive.
212
Ms Lava - "MRA" is rather farther up the scale than "...[not having] much empathy for or understanding of women"; you and Ms Fan don't necessarily disagree.

***

Ms Fan - Not a reflection on your tastes, but I find it hard to believe you learned from this column that some women enjoy being dominated or degraded by men; you seem to have presented here already having observed a clue or two in that direction.

***

Ms Marcel - I think we can take it as established that enough OS men expect real women to act and react as women do in porn to make it clear that there is A Problem. As for the industry itself, I'm prepared to accept credible testimony, and, though not an interested party about the Problem, am initially inclined to find #206 plausible. We may part company at the Solution stage.
213

Marcellina- Again, welcome. I feel your anger and frustration, and I see it coming from a valid point. I've heard before the opinions you’re presenting here and I agree with quite a few of them. Some times men need to hear a woman's angry rant in order to wake up and see an issue from a different angle. And I do speak from the receiving end of that experience.

But this on going rant, coupled with name calling and shooting everyone in sight, may only cause the opposite and make others recoil in horror and be defensive. I also think there are some commenters here who like to provoke others for the sake of it, and they’re fully aware that the issues of feminism and gender inequality are almost guaranteed to start a fire.

214
Mostly agree with Dan's advice on WINDOWS. Only thing he didn't mention, is that at a certain point, WINDOWS needs to make sure that her neighbor is on the same page as her - if he's thinking that there is a possible relationship/flight/whatever, it's in both their interest that the potential outcomes be approved/not approved.
215
Much like the concept of not dating coworkers...just in case it ends badly... I'd suggest that WINDOWS stop her routine with her neighbor before it blows up on her. (hopefully the blow up is just discomfort for HER, but it could be much worse, cause problems in her relationship, get stalker-ish or violent...). I imagine the odds of it NEVER causing problems are much lower. Just seems too risky
216
Women who are offended by porn, not just disinterested in it, need to get over their own hang-ups rather than get all righteously angry. Stop pretending that no woman could ever enjoy doing or fantasizing about anything that offends you, and therefore all women are being victimized by the existence of porn.

And the fact that some porn actresses are treated unfairly doesn't justify demonizing those who consume the product. People are sometimes treated unfairly in every industry. Have you ever bought any clothing or consumer electronics? If so, you've certainly supported much worse injustices.
218
How about all the celebrity women who make "sex tapes?" How about the many, many women who make amateur porn videos with their boyfriends/husbands? Porn is not only underpaid, exploited "actresses." There is probably more amateur porn on the web than that made by the pros.

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