Columns Aug 19, 2015 at 4:00 am

The Boyfriend Experience

Comments

320
@Philo - I'm certainly not saying it's the most likely scenario. I'm just allowing for the chance that (given the words of a well respected man like Dan to help explain their frustrations and expectations) the partners will have some kind of epiphany and repent and their behavior will change. Again, it may not be that likely to happen in these cases, but if it does, great, I'd give them a chance and move on.

I do believe that people can come around and gain some insight. They may even know on some level they're responding irrationally but just haven't found the voice to admit it yet. (From early childhood on I was one of those argument addicts who would advocate something even if I knew I was dead wrong, because once I started, I was incapable of stopping. And I was good, or at least persistent, so I usually 'won' and the behavior was reinforced. It took dating someone in college for nearly 2 years who did the exact same thing to open my eyes to how obnoxious it was and convince me I needed to change.) It's also quite possible that the LWs haven't found the voice to rationally explain their feelings to their partner yet either. We know their thoughts as they have written them, but people are very rarely as eloquent in the heat of the moment when emotions are high on both sides. Sometimes it just takes some distance and perspective to make real progress on an issue.
321
@Griz/nocute - Best wishes to you. Since spring it seems there's been a veritable cornucopia of bad times going around for many people I know. Very sorry to hear you've been swept up in the storm as well.

Also, I can add my email to the list - it's (go figure) xilonen03@gmail.com
322
Xilonen@320. Of course people change. Life experience , changes them. Bondage boy no doubt in ten yrs will see how silly he has been here, cause by then he will have learnt from other relationships, that generosity of spirit gets you far. Or not. It is surprising how many people can live with the same mind set, ie no insight into or desire to change one iota of themselves, from one end of life to the other.
323
Philo @ 313
Yes, the definitions are not clear as in a substance intake and people may have different interpretations as to where to draw the line. After all sex is one key element of our lives that no one can ignore. Same goes to food issues, another important element of our well being.
324
EricaP @ 318
Thanks for doing this, just sent you an email.
325
@323 I think we have some common ground here. Many years ago, I asked a psychiatrist if he thought I might have a sex addiction and he did not think so because, regardless of some compulsive behaviors (which have since abated), the behaviors were not negatively affecting various parts of my life. I know this is not a perfect definition, but I think it's relevant. Addictions are more easily identified when they come into conflict with the ability to function in various aspects of life.
326
@322 Lava - Haha, yes there are definitely plenty of people out there who never reach that level of introspection, or never see the need in changing their behavior. I suppose there's nothing wrong with that if you're not trying to maintain relationships with incompatible people while refusing to work on your own issues.
328
@318 EricaP: Thank you and everyone, too, for your kind wishes for nocutename and for me.
Thank you, too, for graciously extending your email address.
@319: nocutename: Thank you as well for your kind support and graciously shared email address. I hope all works out well for you, too.
@321: Xilonen03: Thank you, and bless you too, for your kind wishes.

My beloved took me out for a little short drive today for a breather and a GF burger to pause, reflect, and go "Whew!" a couple of times. And tomorrow is another day. I am hopeful that we can all survive the incoming storm as well as ride the tide and celebrate the good times. Bless you all---you and Dan the Man are all in my loving thoughts and prayers.
329
Who died and made me Ms Driasis?

We had one repeat with which I'd already dealt, one letter by an admitted heterosexual, one that was as good as proved, and one on a theme already covered this month. Given that, in addition, DTMFA could reasonably have been said across the board, I found the offerings disappointing. I cannot transmute base metals into gold. I hope for better material for the final week, but at least I've gotten off one or two little remarks this year that I don't think were retreads from years previous.

This is at least the second attack on my little tradition from this quarter. I think it is safe to say that Attila's disdain/disapproval/disappointment/whatever has been registered, and any repetition in the same style will not accomplish anything positive. Given the bad summer I've been having, this is as diplomatic as I can bring myself to be. Sorry.
331
Ms Lava @322 - That ought to have reminded you of Elizabeth Bennet's telling Mr Collins he had not changed since their last meeting and his replying, "What benefit would there be in alteration?"
332
Ms Cute - I feel almost inclined to apologize; I was on the brink a while back of wishing for you a nice little annuity, nothing excessive (although we all know that people live for ever when there is an annuity to be paid to them), but thought you wouldn't appreciate the wish.
333
Ah, Mr. Ven! We are all having a somewhat trying summer, I guess. At the risk of going all Tiny Tim on all of our asses, I hope things improve for all of us.
334
That reminds me , Venn. Having my own copy of P@P deeply boxed away somewhere( my sister gave it to me for my 16th b'day ), I bought another copy recently.. A penguin reissue. Must remember to get to it.
Yes well, Mr Collins, perfect example of someone who sees no need to reflect and change anything about himself.
335
Wow, you guys.
336


Hunter @ 327
Addiction is a treat!
Yet another sympathetic incompatible libido partner

Lava @ 334
"Little penguin, a dirty little bird"
Frank Zappa, "Penguin in Bondage" from “Roxy and Elsewhere” circa 1974
337
335
Is this another hostile takeover by the guys from Ashley Madison?
338
Wow you guys what, Dan?
I already appogized for my pinch/ steal a fag line. Tried to stay outta trouble ( at least this side of the divide).
Or is that, wow you guys, 330 odd posts in, and everyone was pretty sweet with each other? Yes.. I'll go with that one. Night.
339
Or that we got to 339 posts on those pretty skimpy problems you threw our way? It's called being dedicated to chatting.
341
Dan Savage - What about us girls?

Chairman - You have a point that my terminology might not be the best linguistic shortcut. I have been thinking about it. And I caught the post about your Chairbaby, congrats.

Hun - I'm sorry. I thought you were being obvious. But I was being obtuse. I don't trust anything. I assume things are true that are repeatedly verifiable. I have some confidence in journals and papers that I think are reliable. I don't consider 'word of mouth' to be convincing, and I try to read both sides of the story when educated experts disagree. I guess I've never made that clear. I talk a lot about consideration and politeness here, that's opinion, I don't think of this as discovering truth. Although inquiry might be the first step, I doubt anyone here will be running experiments to discover the hints of truth. Wouldn't that be nice. I care more about pursuing happiness when posting here.

And I think that identifying addictions can be helpful to understand a problem and develop an approach. A person needs a lot of motivation if they are to quit an addiction. They are likely to be somewhat unreasonable and overly defensive about the subject, and addictions have a tendency to escalate if ignored. Relapse is common. I think that this info or related might help someone involved with an addict to have more realistic expectations to facilitate decision making. An addict is not a monster or a victim, but has some predictable tendencies.

Lava - I'd have no energy or interest for lies
Would you lie about Anne Frank hiding in your attic? Or would you spill? You don't have to lie about yourself or to yourself, to gain some expertise with lying.

Xilonen03 - Hope is nice. And perhaps some of these letters are written in the heat of the moment. Thanks.
342
& Auntie Griz - I'm sure your Marine spirit will demolish your challenges.
& NoCute - A content human was a dead human, before we got all civilized. I'm happy you're still rising to challenges too.
343
& Venn - I'm sure there's an installment of bad, possibly gay girlfriends coming your way later today...
344
Ms Phile - Or we could get a week of letters from the Off the Binary set. Fortunately, I did finally see that at least one school of the Many Gendres Set allows the homosexual orientation to include similar gendres as well as one's own; until then, I was convinced that expanding the number of gendres would have the effect of making straight practically the same as bi and demonizing Ls and Gs for only being attracted to one gendre.
345
@333 nocutename: Sign me up for your Tiny Tim Club.
@335: Wow is right whenever Dan responds to the SL comment thread. Dan, any chance of Rob Brezsny's Free Will Astrology column returning to The Stranger? I have a daily Leonine addiction.
@342 Philophile: Thank you for your kind words of encouragement. I actually served in the U.S. Navy (if that's what you meant by Marine spirit?), but yeah, I was prepared to face some nasty news today from my financial adviser----and got better news than I expected. I think I left a positive impression from looking into current tax codes / laws and what to file in 2016. Thank heavens my current rent and bills are paid in case there are any more weird surprises on the horizon.
@339 LavaGirl: That's me all right---"Chatty Cathy".

346
Late to the party, againnn
#314 – That was earlier this year, and yeah, there were plenty of responses with weasel phrases like 'I'm not necessarily saying he should be called a rapist/abuser, but...” IMO, there was some creepy stuff, and it wasn't the part about a teen boy coming in his pants.

Philo/Chairman – I'm a fan of Jay Smooth of Ill Doctrine/Fusion.net, 7 years ago he put out a video (still on Youtube) called 'How to Tell Someone They Sound Racist.' Kind of the same thing with assholes, we've all at some point said something assholish, but hopefully we later repented and made good. We weren't assholes, we did an asshole thing. Those who do asshole things on the regular are then correctly known as 'assholes.'
I hear this and I think of Anthony Bourdain mentioning how you can call a coworker in the restaurant anything that bubbles into your little brain, but 'asshole' was 'strangely hurtful' and thus avoided.
Actually, Jay is so good here on dealing with criticism on the Net, I'm'a repost this
http://fusion.net/video/161082/jay-smoot…

Man, there're a lot of cat-related handles on Slog, these days. I'd be interested in knowing the origins of others. My own started with Molly (badass chick with jacked-up nerves and scalpel blades in her fingers) from the seminal cyperpunk novel 'Neuromancer,' whose combat handle on a mission was Cat Mother.

Speaking of which, futurecatlady, speaking on behalf of Savage Love, nobody likes SeattleBlues, everyone likes you, and please stop apologizing. Quite a few here get more raw or offensive than you do, I might be one of them, so knock it off. Tell us when you bathe in baby blood as a prelude to raising Belial, AKA 'Tuesday over here in SC.'

I have no idea of what wowed Dan, either. If that guy who'd banged 20 babes then put them off through his brutal honesty and didn't get a single date, didn't do it, awhile back, then I don't know, man.

#341 Philo – I don't trust anything either.
Jet fuel doesn't melt steel! Wake up, sheeple!

I've been corresponding with a couple SL'ers for awhile here. I agree we should be able to PM each other, but like single payer healthcare, not happening this week. So!
There are several Body Architects on Facebook, I'm the one in Charleston. Read the damn blog!
Bodyarchitects@hotmail.com
348
It's an awkward sounding position to be in, but not having evidence of malaction is not itself evidence of malaction.
349
and not having evidence of malaction (i'll just use your made up word?...since the definition seems obvious enough) is also not proof of there being none.
350
@346 Cat Brother - In answer to your question, I will tell you the origin of my cat related username. I'm recently divorced and not yet dating. I'm beyond childbearing age but still in my 40s, which seems a little young to shut everything down. On the other hand, I had a great run for 30+ years, really never feeling like I had to settle, and so I wonder if I should just let go of the partnering phase of life, focusing instead on parenting, friends and personal fulfillment.

If not for online dating, I would say I'd just leave it up to fate, whether I meet someone, date, have some sort of relationship again. But it's my impression that choosing not to join an online dating site is sort of opting out of dating these days. Yet I don't feel strongly enough about meeting someone to join.

Also, female friends my age (mid-40s) on dating sites tell me they hear from 30 year olds and 60+ year olds and few people in between. They have sex with the 30 year olds, but rarely truly date them. As I mentioned, I had a nice long run and don't feel like I need to do the hookups with 30 year olds all over again. I'm more attracted to men in my general age range, give or take several years.

All of this is to say that I suspect I may be a cat lady in the making. I currently have no cats, but soon my child will become a teen and the hugs will dwindle and I may turn to the feline world for companionship.

Thank you very much for the warm welcome, Cat Brother. Your kindness is very much appreciated.
351
Of course Philo, I'd lie about Anne Frank. And I'm sure I lie, in little things.. Omission etc. I was talking about big lies( outside war).
352
Future, cuddles don't necessarily dry up when one's child hits the teens. My just on 18 yr old son, still gives me cuddles.
I never even got to the question about the rude boy who got cross when she wouldn't fuck him, cause she needed sleep. That boy really needs some lessons in good manners.
CatB, I was just about to venture on FB and ask if you'd left the building.. And here you are.
353
Ms. Future, I'd stay off dating sites for a while. There's too much choice; it's exhausting if you don't really know how to describe what you want.

Instead, maybe let your friends know you're open to dating and join some real-world activities like hiking clubs, swing classes or volunteering. And don't be afraid to take a chance on someone a decade older. Men in their 40s are often still sowing wild oats after a long bout of monogamy. Older men are more sick of dating and ready to settle down again. My 2 cents.
354
LavaGirl - Glad to hear you're still getting cuddles from your son. There's hope! :)

Erica P - At the risk of generalizing, I think maybe a lot of the 40s guys are either married, oat sowing, or looking to start second families with 30-somethings. Fortunately, I enjoy my own company and feel pretty busy with parenting and other life stuff, so I don't really feel motivated to rethink or expand my preferences at this point. And I'm not even sure I ever want to settle down in the sense of remarrying. At that same time, I'm not in a casual hook up state of mind either. Time will tell.
355
Hun[347] - As long as you are equally suspicious of men who paint themselves innocent. And I don't think orientation is special either. I don't call people a liar, or insane, or imply that I know them better than they know themselves without reasonable evidence, no matter what the subject is. I ask about stuff I'm confused about if I care... such as, why do you keep bringing up the subject? Are you questioning your orientation? Do you think I'm stopping you from questioning the orientation of everyone in your life if that's your whim? I'm not. I couldn't.

Cat Bro - Those who do asshole things on the regular are then correctly known as 'assholes.'
I guess it's all in how you define regular and temporary inconsideration. A night involving unsafe sex and jail time would be much worse to hear about my partner than a daily habit of nasty comments before coffee, I'd think of the first as a real asshole but not the second. And I'm afraid I am a sheeple who believes that we were attacked by terrorists.
356
& Auntie Griz - Sorry, I have a bad memory.
357
@Philo - Hope IS nice. I don't have enough of it in my own life most days, so I might as well have it for some other people on occasion.
358
#276 - And Hunter Wins the thread!

#355 Philo - Glad that other Philo's gone...but we have SB back. Maybe a Bruce Wayne/Batman thing.
See, I might score those two situations the other way, though of course I'd need more details on the unprotected sex to make a call. In any event, daily nastiness = asshole, for me. I've seen people go off the rails d/t alcohol, spring back and be properly apologetic and contrite and eventually be taken back into good graces. Again, depends on whether got hammered and then made out or more with a coworker, or burned a cross on someone's lawn.
I trust you know I was joking about jet fuel et al.

I'm a little late to Ricardo's boob comments. Implants aren't going away from porn, but a lot of the top grossers now like Belladonna and Sasha Gray are in the B-cup camp, we seem to have gotten away from the 90's implant craziness.

Re discovered condoms lying around, I've found random unused singles/triplets on high shelves and whatnot, in desk drawers...You don't always return unused units back to the bedside table or wherever you normally keep them, and they're certainly small enough to get overlooked.

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