Savage Love

Minds Blown

Comments

103
philo @100.... "This guy was assaulted if he was offended by the sexual part of the act as well as the gargling..."

i know you didn't mean it this way...but my first thought was

"are you offended he took your cock in his mouth without your permission?"

"no! I am offended he gargled!"

lol
104
I haven't read all the comments yet, so someone's probably already responded (and better).

@8: "this woman's son is an insensitive jerk. Why would he find it necessary to tell his mom about the _____ relationship?" By this logic, should everyone stay in the closet forever? Not tell their families when they are dating someone (of the same gender - of a different race - of a different social class - whatever else)? If this person isn't just recreationally monogamish, but having poly-LTR's secretly, that's got to be a huge weight to carry.

@1: "making this whole thing a bigger deal than it actually is." I'd like to go on the record as saying that any "sex" that happens to you while you are unconscious, and without your explicit prior consent, is basically rape. That's a big deal. I get that some people might be cool with it, at least conceptually, given certain parameters. But some of us are NOT cool with it, and if you don't ask first, then you don't know.
107
@DrVan: Whether or not they were my partners is irrelevant to the question of whether initiating sex without consent should be considered sexual assault if the initiator wasn't awake.
108
@107 Sean, logically, a person initiating sex while asleep, is not responsible. Proving that in court could be difficult.
If it happens with a partner rather than some random dude you just sharing a bed with, one could assume the partner wouldn't initiate court proceedings.
109
@seandr
That's where we disagree. Some kind of kissing and fondling might be in the normal range of unconscious activity. Swallowing another person's cock would probably be a much rarer and more significant condition. But even in your case, I'd say you at least owed the other person warning if you knew you had that tendency, AND you weren't in a sexual relationship with them, AND their public sexual identity made it likely that such fondling would be unwelcome. Bottom line, while I think "sexsomnia" is theoretically possible, I think it's way more likely that a drunk closet-case made a really ill-conceived pass at sleeping dude that he hoped might be receptive. Either way, he could really end up hurting someone and put himself at risk in the future. I don't think this kind of thing should be shrugged off, even if it's uncomfortable. They should talk about it and the Marine should take steps to prevent assaulting people in the future.
110
Van@109. There's no indication the Marine is a serial offender. This is one incident, they were uber buddies.
Given the LWs apparent enjoyment of the incident, he may have put out an unconscious come on to the Marine.
I agree, they should talk.
111
Sunday morning here, time for facing one's truth. Used to be getting ready for Mass time, so many years ago.
Throwing open for comment my issue with my 18 yr old son.
His exit from his gf s house is permanent. He moved out so she could study, seeing her on weekends. She has made it permanent.
Except. She still loves him and wants him to attend her graduation and party.
Say what?
This kid of mine has been thrown. He won't talk about it though. When I've tried to bring it up.. He gets cross. No tears yet, that I've seen.
Boys and heartache is Not my forte.
As I know it, girls blubber and moan to whoever will listen, then mostly move on along.
So my boy has great great film making aspirations. Writing. So he's got the seed in him, and he has been watching movies( to help with learning his craft of course), and writing.
He has a several day a week job as a check out guy at a new big name grocery store in our local town.
He was intensely with this girl. I did try to suggest he come home a bit, no.
And he seems to have let his guys go while with her.
All grist for the artistic mill, still I want to help him heal this grief. I'm keeping an eye on him, and he does still love his mother. If he ever crosses the line and loses my friendship momentarily, he'll come out to my hut and Apologise. And he feels that.
My kid has been thrown by his first gf.
112
What bothers me about all the people calling rape is that the letter-writer doesn't appear to feel raped. He's just curious if sleep-sex is a thing. Why do we tell people who are fine that no, they were raped or traumatized and they should feel like it? What possible good does that do? I think it's dangerous when we make things so black and white. Sex is complicated, inter-personal relations are complicated, sometimes people make mistakes or unwanted advances--even to the extent of making unwanted sexual contact--and it doesn't make them automatically rapists. If the letter is to be believed, the guy stopped immediately once the LW said any words at all.

I know I'll get flack for this, but I seriously think as a society we need to be respectful of each other, and compassionate (not just to perceived victims) and that includes acknowledging gray areas.

*ducks*
113


ciods @ 112
You are certainly right and there are plenty grey areas of all shades in every case.
But don’t forget that the often-harsh rules were installed mostly to eradicate a culture that allowed lots of grey and mostly to the other side.
I’m all for modifying and redefining sex offenses as we go along. Behaviors, expectations, and balance of power are changing all around us.
College and corporate cultures may capture our attention and we do notice progress. But assuming you reside in the USA then you may have heard about the somewhat prevalent rape culture amongst our brave men and women in uniform. My guess is the number has remained steady in the past 10 years or so because they’re posted so far away for so long, but it’s still deeply rooted nevertheless.
Recent news reports said the number of male soldiers reporting rape by other male soldiers is way under reported. Maybe a new added line to the bro code, or just another shameful thing to admit and prove.
114
@CMD 113:
But don’t forget that the often-harsh rules were installed mostly to eradicate a culture that allowed lots of grey and mostly to the other side.

How right you are! Of course that's the truth. I just wish somehow we could correct without overcorrecting. But maybe that's not how things shift.
116
Yes, some of those "guidelines" may seem unfair and even come across as condescending nowadays.
I've heard of some cases in my area that ended up not too harsh, as the judges looked at the big picture.
The police however always seem eager to prosecute and grab headlines. They will often give you the wrong information as to your rights, and tell you that "disclosing everything is in your best interest" even before you consult a lawyer.

They also pose routinely to be under age boys/girls on different sites, something the bored idiots in some small town in ________ (fill in your un/favorite state) can actually do all over the country while hoping to gain some fame.
Once you mention that the first meeting is always in a public place, before 8 pm, and id's will be exchanged- some truly useful guidelines I got right here- they tend to disappear.
118
@ 115- before the junk police take you down
I actually find those posts to be very fitting in here, offering a unique angle as well as a very creative approach..
"i was emotionally down all this while. Thanks to a man called Dr Aisabu of Aisabu temple which i met online."

Is there a fee for people who don't want their exes to be helped by the doctor?
119
I sent an inquiry email aisabulovespell@gmail.com and here's the doctor's reply:
You are welcome to my temple where all kinds of problem are solved with the powers of our fathers. You have make the right choice for consulting me. You are sincerely assured and guaranteed that your problem will be solved by my gods because there is nothing impossible in the sight of my gods. I have been doing this for so many years and many people has benefited from my good work. My spell does not have any negative or bad effect on anyone because the power is saturated and it is from my ancestors. You are advise to tell me what kind of help precisely do you want my gods to do for you so that i can present it before my gods. I cast different kind of spell which are stated below:

1. Love spell
2. Return my partner back spell
3. Court case spell
4. Money Spell
5. Curse removal spell
6. Body Swap spell
7. Job promotion spell
8. To get good paying job spell
9. Winning of election spell
10. Lottery spell
11. Pregnancy spell
12. Healing from any disease spell
13. To be powerful spell
14. Cure HIV
15. Cure of cancer

I expect your response regarding what kind of help you want from my temple.
Regards
Dr Aisabu
120
CMD, well he's of no use to me. Nothing there about a grieving 18 yr old boy. And I sure wouldn't encourage him to try some magic potion to get her back.
I have tried to encourage him to go to Uni next yr. His plan is to work for another yr and then go to Paris and become a movie maker. Maybe it was that Edmund White's memoir of Paris I lent him, that set him off on that fantasy.
This is where a decent Father is needed. But I'm short one of those. His brothers are keeping a watch as well, I'm guessing. Their style a little different to mine.
121
@102 LavaGirl: Fair enough. Condoms aren't for everyone.
Wish me luck on my website, 2 years 2 1/2 months active. I'm visiting my university campus on Monday to distribute flyers and tear sheets advertising Music Theory tutorial assistance, and business cards.
Our local theater just held its annual Bentley Awards ceremony; among top honors were our amazing director, music director, our orchestra (with me on piccolo and flute), best vocal, best song "Toledo Surprise", and best costumes in our spring musical, The Drowsy Chaperone".
I had no idea I would be among many honored up on stage tonight! Wow---maybe something to add to my music resume? Here's hoping I can get calls for more gigs as magical as this one was from May through June.
122
I'm not sure what the etiquette is for letter writers in responding to the commenters, but I'm BLOWN, and I've read them all with some amusement, half expecting the "it's a fake" comments, and not at all surprised to read the comparison with the Penthouse forum letters. Please bear in mind that for whatever reason, Dan did not post my letter verbatim. He left out a few important details. The "marine" was actually an "ex-marine" and he was also a well-liked co-worker, married, and a father at the time of the incident, which happened about 25 years ago.

Yes, I was enjoying the blowjob right up until the time I realized that it was NOT my girlfriend giving it. Once it dawned on me where I was and what was happening, I wanted it stopped.

The gargling observation was largely sarcasm, but it did happen. I offered the information only to help Dan with his advice. In my mind, the guy did it in a way to "prove" he wasn't actually gay and this was just some kind of accident.

No, we didn't talk about it later because, for lack of a better explanation, guys don't talk about that stuff. Anyone see "Deliverance?" Besides, I bring it up, he denies it happens, says I'm dreaming or a liar, and the whole group of guys gets freaked. I still had to spend another full day and a half with this guy. When I got home, I promptly told my girlfriend what happened.

As far as reporting him, it never crossed my mind. I wasn't traumatized or forced into that situation. Like I said, I largely laughed it off, but yes, after all this time and after much debate with my friends about why it happened, I thought I'd pass it along to Dan. Who else would know better than him? I don't lose sleep over it.

I left the company about the time this happened, so I had no interaction with him after. Now, I rarely think about it, and I haven't seen this guy again in at least 20 years.

And yes, I happily married a different woman, years later. We both laugh about it now, and you should too. Thanks for your concern, but I'm fine.
123
Mr Hunter - Perhaps you should summon Toon Dark Magician Girl.
124
Pink (or is it blue?) Flamingo @ 122
If there was no problem, you don't lose sleep over it, you and the new wife laugh about it and so on then what made you write this after all those years??????
Don't worry, we all get how hetro you are.
125
FlamingHetro,@122. This all happened 25 yrs ago and Now you want some clarity?
I don't ever think sexual advances that are unwelcome is ever something to laugh about. Maybe you are denying some psychic injury to yourself, or some erotic response that you so stridently deny, flaminghetro.
126
FlamingHetro, while you're here, how did you deal with your first broken heart?
127
You are free to think that, but you'd be wrong. I wrote because I wanted to solve a mystery. Nothing more than that. Does everything need to be a trauma before you write to Dan?
128
LavaGirl: Relevance?
129
Hunter @105: " I will admit there have been times when, sleeping spooned, I awoke with wood, and proceeded to enter my partner. She invariably woke, sometimes to pull away so she go back to sleep, sometimes she let me continue. Never did she feel raped."
Even though she was?
Seriously, unless you said to this partner "Honey, sometimes I wake up and I'm horny, is it okay for me to get started without you?" and she said yes, your actions are both sexual assault as everyone defines it, and rape as the law defines it.

Continuing on to @112, the act of not getting consent makes it rape, not the reaction of the victim. Different people react to rape in different ways. Often lawyers argue that the perpetrator isn't guilty because the victim didn't react in ways stereotypically associated with victims. One person who is particularly sensitive may be traumatised; another person may shrug it off. Going back to my analogy, if you steal $50 from a poor person they may not eat for a week; if you steal $50 from a rich person they may not even notice. Doesn't mean it was not theft in both cases.

BLOWN @122: Hello! And hah! Thank you for vindicating my belief that this letter may well be real. Made perfect sense to me. Some of the people on this site can't believe that some people have a more interesting sex life than they do, or a different way of seeing things. Please don't take some of their nastier comments to heart.
130
Relevance is, I need help dealing with my 18 yr old son's heart ache. Which he is hiding. Not talking about. I threw it open to the crowd, and not One guy has said a word about it.
Males my boy, males. You are not a boy obviously. The relevance is, how can you not see you are caught by this experience. You talk and talk about it. My sister was kissed by a priest, like 40 yrs plus ago, and she still talks about it. She knows to be angry about it.
If this guy did it in his sleep, then anger is not appropriate. And why would two adult men sleep in the same bed?

131
LavaGirl: Talk and talk about it? This is the first time I ever brought it up on a public forum, and the friends I told about it bring it up far more often than I do — which is still pretty rare.

I suppose it's easy to think that because I'm not gay and that I didn't want or expect this, it must have damaged me in some way, but that's just not the case. He stopped when I wanted him to stop. End of story. It screwed up my golf game that day more than anything else. I actually ended up feeling kind of bad for the guy, because as I said, he was married and had a kid, but he really wanted to suck cock. Wherever he is, I hope he found his peace with that.

Regarding your son's heartbreak, my first heartbreak came at 17, and I suppose I didn't deal with it very well. My high school sweetheart and I just kind of unraveled, and she was giving me no real answers why it was happening. She just didn't want to continue anymore, and I was thinking things were going great. To this day, I still wonder, but people are funny. Sometimes a switch just gets flicked. The only cure is time and distraction.
132
Lava @130: "Why would two adult men sleep in the same bed?" Because there were not enough beds to go around? And because half a bed is better than floor?
133
A thought I just had, FH, is to role play with some one, what you would have said to him. Maybe with a psychodrama therapist if you wanted to get that serious.
Or do a gestalt session, put him in an empty chair in your mind and ask him straight, wtf was that? Whatever comes to mind. Then you could put yourself in the chair and answer for him.
If, as you say, it is not an issue.. Then that's it.
Thanks for telling me that, my son in exactly same position. After a 15 month full on relationship, she just wanted out and he didn't see it coming.
He too is 17, will be 18 in a couple of weeks. Guess I should dig out Dylans's Blood on the Tracks, for him.
134
Fan, yes the logistics are there.. I get that. I would have taken it in turns to sleep on the floor.
These guys were young men, über
Staight( thanks iPhone for the dots),
drinking, drugs?? Perhaps.
135
Lavagirl: As far as talking to him about it all these years later, I'd be open to that, but it would depend on his current situation. If he was still married (which would surprise me), I'd be far more reluctant to talk about it unless he brought it up first. If I saw him marching in the Gay Pride parade, then I guess my questions would be answered. Who knows what he's thinking right now, if he's even thinking about it?

And yes, there was a shortage of beds. We shared a queen size in the master bedroom. Much better that than the floor, indeed. Yes, I'm hetro, but I'm not so hung up about it that I'd ruin my back over it.
136
Lava @134: I have never had any issues with sharing a bed with platonic friends, I guess it comes from sometimes needing to share with relatives when I was a child. But if sexsomnia is as common as these comments seem to indicate, perhaps it's me who's wrong to be okay with it.
137
Yes, we were drinking, but we weren't falling down drunk. Just a bunch of guys on a weekend, and please, don't read any subtext into that. To the best of my knowledge, none of the other participants came out later. Most of the guys were either married or in long-term relationships.
138
FH, if you spoke with him, even if he is still married, why not bring it up? It may be an experience he still hasn't resolved. He may well have accepted he's bi, or whatever his behaviour then was indicative of. Maybe you just got him very sleep hot.. Until you find him and ask him straight, it's all just guess work.
139
Probably all a moot point. I just did an exhaustive Google search for the guy and came up empty. I'm still in touch with other coworkers, and none of them hear from him anymore either. I would all depend on the circumstances. If he's with his wife, I'm not about to blurt out, "So, why did you blow me, by the way?" His kid would be twenty-something by now. I live hundreds of miles away from all that now. Thanks for chatting about it, though. It was good to talk about it.
140
It's explained in my comment. Just trying to settle a mystery. Does everything have to be a trauma to warrant a letter to Dan?
141
@122 FlamingHero (a.k.a.: BLOWN): Welcome to SL and thank you for not only responding, but further clarifying your situation. Please forgive me then, for what I had thought after reading your letter to Dan a second time. I admit my later responses were somewhat kylecheez-influenced (@60). I couldn't help but reflect upon some previously printed SL letters that Dan refers to as (not necessarily yours, but some that are just plain obviously fake) HTH, or "How'd THAT Happen?!?" letters to Savage Love. The memory of classic HTH letters was what made me laugh; no sarcasm was intended your way. I agree with LavaGirl @138 about resolving your blowjob incident from 25 years ago with your ex-Marine friend.
142
Re@140, FH.. I don't guess so. Writing to Dan must come from a very strong need maybe, to work thru an issue.
Obviously, when you read letters to Dan, that all of them are not trauma related.
This man, imposed himself on you. Maybe he was asleep, maybe he wasn't. The whole situation just sits there, having happened. He was a co worker and friend.
He imposed himself, then didn't even acknowledge it. A body and mind fuck.
Like I suggested, you could set up a role play. Say what you need to say to an imaginary man, then you get the words out.. And you might surprise yourself what comes out of you as you pretend to talk to him. It might help you
To resolve some aspects of this experience.. Maybe forgive this guy for his behaviour and his lack of courage in not talking of it afterwards.
143
Aunt Zelda @ 141
I remember that one. The first one I encountered was about 18 years ago. That woman wrote how she fell asleep accidentally and the dog... well, she was asleep.
I think Dan had first heard the phrase from the guys who used to run that mail business under what used to be the stranger's office on Pike and 14 or so.
144
Seriously, there's no need to forgive. I wrote purely out of curiosity. I just hope that wherever he is, he's figured it out and he's okay with it. I guess if he walked through the door today, I'd just want to know if he's okay. Sexually speaking, I know I am.
145
FH. All good then. You are kind to hope that he is ok. Take it easy..
146
Though, FH, you saying " sexually speaking, I know I am".. Gets me feeling you are still feeling unresolved about your part in this incident. Even if there was some unconscious encouragement
on your part.. So what? Why do some men have such a fear about any erotic component in their same sex relationships? You can be a hetero man, yet still understand men being sexually active with other men..
Like I am a hetero woman, yet can understand the erotic component of women being sexually active with other women.
Difference between you and me is, no woman has ever forced herself on me sexually.
147
FlamingHetro
Curiosity and attempting to understand what had happened don’t sit well with avoiding chiming in while chuckling on the sidelines, then jump to the field in what I perceive as repeated bouts of self assurance full of absolute straightness and well being.
Not that those can’t go together, just wonder what you really want to get out of all this.
148
@143 CMDwannabe: As long as we're talking about HTHs, is it the one I think you're referring to, originally signed "Help Me", from 1997? Woof---in more ways than one.
I'm still laughing, though, about the "200 Percent Straight Guy" who might still have a thumb up his butt.
149
FlamingHetero: Just as I believed your story was true, I also believe that you're not carrying around unresolved issues over this memory of a one-time, screwed-up situation. Sometimes screwed-up things happen and people DO put them behind them, even though the memory, when it makes its occasional resurfacing appearance, contains unanswered questions. Hope they've been answered a bit better now.
150
Ms Lava - I am sorry for your son's heartbreak, but I think we can all agree that I am the last person to consult on how to get a son to open up to his mother.
151
@DrVan: while I think "sexsomnia" is theoretically possible, I think it's way more likely that a drunk closet-case made a really ill-conceived pass at sleeping dude that he hoped might be receptive

You think it's more likely he tried a sneak blow job on his sleeping heterosexual buddy/workmate? In the context of hanging with the bros? That seems more "inconceivable" than "ill-conceived."

Swallowing another person's cock would probably be a much rarer and more significant condition.

According to...your wild ass guess?

Well, according to this study, "7.6 percent of patients (63 of 832) at a sleep disorders center reported that they had initiated or engaged in sexual activity with a bed partner while asleep. The prevalence of reported sexsomnia was nearly three times higher in men (11 percent) than in women (four percent)."

The condition can hardly be called "rare", especially among men, and it's not at all implausible that many of these initiations make it past the kissing/caressing phase, or even skip that phase altogether.
152
FlamingHetro seems a strange choice for a handle if you are truly not at all phased by this incident.... but... i can certainly take you at your word (that you are fine). Were you good friends with this guy before this happened? or was he only an acquaintance (coworker, etc)? Kinda seems like a friendship disappeared over this.... (maybe it would have anyway...). Do you still talk to or see any of the other guys from this particular trip?
153

Aunt Zelda @ 146
I don’t remember the person’s screen name but do remember the incident.
Those were the days I started reading this column at the company’s rbeak room. It was often challenging eating my lunch while doing so.

BiDanFan @ 149
I also thought the letter is real, but don’t share the jubilation/redemption you seem to feel.
“Sometimes screwed-up things happen and people DO put them behind them” - you’re no doubt right, I just have some issues with the way our new friend presenting his case.
Waiting on the sidelines while people begging for more details, then entering in a gotcha style while repeating the same straight party lines over and over make me wonder.

Venn- here is what I wrote last night and almost published:
I hope Venn doesn’t read this latest round of comments. All those heterminologies and hetitudes he’s talking about are all coming to life.
But just in case, no plays nor books please. I’ll take movies though.
Aunt Ida wearing a tight, revealing leather dress In John Waters’ “Female Trouble” telling her nephew (Gator?) he should look into dating men: “The heterosexual life is boring… You’ll end up celebrating wedding anniversaries.”

154
BiDanFan-
In other news... Just found out about David Cameron's piggate. What's your take?
155
ChairmanOfTheBored: Why the handle? It's just an inside joke around here, and it was the first thing that came to mind. A play on words, if you will. I was almost going to use "Blown", but I figured it was probably already taken.

I love women. I have gay friends and relatives. I'm of the attitude that if it makes you happy and doesn't hurt people, then enjoy. Be happy. Life's too short. That's all. There's such a temptation here for people to play dime-store psychologist.

The context of the "friendship" was this: By the time of the incident, I had already worked with this guy for a good two years. It was a long time ago, so I'm a little fuzzy on the details, but I had either just left the company for another job, or I was just about to. This position was a dead end for me, and I got out just in time to avoid a major layoff.

This ex-marine co-worker was generally well-liked by just about everyone there. NO ONE would have suspected he was gay or even had such an inclination. We had gay coworkers and no one's gay-dar went off. Yes, he was a big guy, but he was a kind of gentle giant that didn't seem like he'd hurt a flea.

However, when you wake up and find a strange mouth on your cock, you just don't know what to expect next. For a brief moment, I was very concerned that he'd turn on me, punch me bloody, and accuse me of doing this to HIM. Fortunately, that did not happen.

The next night, I think he found somewhere else to sleep. Don't ask me where. I was just happy to have the bed to myself. I could not wait to get home just so that I could tell somebody about it. There was no way I was going to say anything to the guys there at that time. They either wouldn't believe me, or they'd make life pretty unbearable for the guy. There were enough homophobes in the group, and I really didn't want to see that happen.
156
Dime store psychologist FH? How American in your description. Never been to a dime store in my life. Now if you were talking $ shop, I'd understand your put down much better.
157
CMD @153: "I also thought the letter is real, but don’t share the jubilation/redemption you seem to feel." Perhaps because I tend to err on the side of gullibility. And it's nice that I turned out not to be the fool who took someone at their word, only to find the joke was on me!

As for pig-gate... ugh. On one hand, it's nice the papers have something else to crow over besides Corbyn's latest made-up offence. On the other hand, if the incident did happen, it was a collegiate frat-boy prank of some description that, while disturbing, doesn't really say anything about Cameron that we didn't already know. There's enough reason to vilify Cameron for what he's done while in office, not for something he did on a dare 30 years ago.
158
BiDanFan @ 157
I'm with you on both. I actually feel a bit cheated on the first part and may have been a bit harsh on FH as a result..
FH- Your latest post was very helpful though I wish it would have come earlier in the discussion.

Piggate- Yes, I'm with you, though it may explain Cameron's sense of entitlement which must have been instilled early in his life.
159
Watch the episode of Black Mirror (on netflix or amazon...) that pertains to piggate... season 1, episode 1.... seems unlikely that the Cameron story is true... a bit too coincidental....
160
@119: I always wonder about the "money spell," and briefly have to manage the impulse to email the spammers to ask about how it works--if you have a money spell, why are you spamming?

But I suspect the answer is that the spell just summons a message saying "Start advertising spellcasting services."
161
@155. " NO ONE would have suspected", FH?
Homosexuality is not an affliction. I got my degree in psychogy from a proper uni, though anyone with a dime store degree could have seen where you were coming from.
If you didn't want comments, then why did you write in? I stand by my observations of the facts as given and how you communicated on the thread.
But yes. You love women. We get it.
162
Still. Don't want to leave it on a negative note, FH. Hope you have resolved this experience for yourself, with it having got such a good airing.
164
Thanks Venn, sweet of you to respond. I don't know that I want my son to open up to me.. I want him to heal his grief. If that involves sharing his feelings, I'm ok with that.
He does seem to be slowly moving thru it. Getting to work. Started re connecting with male friends and he's going out next weekend.
165
And you can go fuck yourself , Hunter.
A man gets sexually assaulted, while he sleeps.. It can be assumed there may be some lingering feelings of being violated. All just ideas, people can use them or not.
166
You're sounding more like the boob here, Hunter. British politics, my ass.
167
Lava- you seem hellbent on helping FlamingTotallyNotGayAtAllSuperIntoWomen... but he doesn't seem to want or need help... he just wanted to know if sexsomnia was an actual thing. He got his question answered. He didn't feel violated. That should be good enough. No?

(p.s. i personally don't "doubt" his heterosexuality... because i don't care if he is straight or gay or both or neither... i just chuckle at bit at the inherent level of protestation.... going so far as to claim his uber straightness more than once in the letter and comments... and choosing a handle to the same effect... seems pretty funny to me...back to that old "doth protest to much" conversation)
168
Mr Chairman - He was a little too obvious for a Gertrude Award.
169
Chairman. Look, I was head hunted by Dan's Australian agents to bring Aussie colour and flavour to his threads.
And God damn if I ain't gonna deliver.
170
I jest Chairman. Yes of course it's good enough. He wasn't violated.
Surely, he could have just googled it , if that was all he was really after.
172
@169 LavaGirl: You GO, Aussie girl!

@171 However much you're paid, Hunter, you're still a gadfly boob.
173
FlamingHetro - I'm glad you wrote in and settled the 'fake' dispute!

Although I believe that you may have walked away untraumatized from your wild night, you do seem to refuse to address that what the man did was assault, no matter if you report it or if he was responsible for his actions (sexsomnia has been a successful defense against assault in the past)

The reasons that you have stated for not talking to him about it; you didn't want your other friends to know, you wouldn't want to bring it up in front of his wife. I think that it was possible to set up a private conversation about it later, but you didn't want to. I'd say you have to learn to stand up for yourself, based on this incident. Develop your ideas about consent and right and wrong a bit more. The moral "right" and "wrong" should apply to yourself as well as women. How would you feel if this had happened to your het daughter with a closeted woman?

Lava - Just because the women who told you to sniff their fanny eroticized you to women, doesn't mean that everyone responds to disturbing sex shit the same way. I think it was mean to imply that this guy was bi.
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Venn @53 -- Am I Miss Knows-Who?

It's true that what seems a long time ago I contributed to some discussion of Venn's literary allusions: some people were complaining about it, Venn responded and, IIRC, attributed the comments' unpopularity to their opacity, and I in the spitefulness of my heart spoke up and said that I got a great many of the allusions and all the Austen ones, and yet didn't like them in the slightest. Something like that?

If it's of any interest to you, Venn -- I do believe you tried to tone it down after that? -- I am rather fond of you as a commenter these days. I still find some of the allusions forced, and the juxtaposition of Austen characters and kinky sex isn't exactly pleasant to me -- two great tastes that don't at all go well together, IMHO -- but I certainly am not nursing a grudge or grumbling when I see your posts. Perhaps you now have something like Mr. Woodhouse's standing with me: some of the refrains may be annoying, but he's a dear old thing really, and it's not so very difficult to put up with another encomium on gruel for the pleasant company.

Not that you're at all required to care what I think of you, but if you're imagining there are grudges and emnities against you in the SL comments: no such here.
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milkshake, I DO think this guy is a rapist and should get jailtime, just not 8 years UNLESS he has done it before. If it's his first offense and he stopped when the guy woke up instead of using force then that should be counted toward less time. But there was no consent, so he should do some time. Given that the victim wasn't traumatized maybe 6 months. However, I'm willing to bet this guy is a repeat offender and in the future might even choose to use physical force instead of backing off. This guy will escalate the more he gets away with.
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Quite often, I wake in the middle of the night to realize that my husband is already fucking me--which is not a problem. ("State of implied consent," and all.) And many times, the roles are reversed. Two or three times, though, over the last eight years, we've *both* woken up mid-encounter, with no idea who initiated, or how.

So, I don't know.... Closeted soldiers are a dime a dozen, sure, but LW2's situation doesn't seem so implausible to me.
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