Columns Oct 28, 2015 at 4:00 am

Best Served Cold

Comments

112
If it's revenge LW1 is after, i hope she's financially sound to be able to withstand the loss of the hubby's income - hard to pay child support when you're in prison, and then unemployed after prison. and also the extra counseling for the kids on why mommy got daddy thrown in prison.

all this woman needs is a great divorce lawyer and a bullet-proof parenting plan with her ex-. the idea of couples therapy to be able to 'co-parent' is ludicrous. the guy needs his own therapy (not couples) to work on his shit - cheating, lying , denial etc. she needs distance and closure.
113
seandr @110, I'm looking for a nice pack of wolves.
114
@Still Thinking: Yeah, the joke was that I was roofied under the guise of drinking fairy dust. Hunter just provided the setup.

FWIW, I've (very) drunkenly made out and played grab-ass with drag queens back in the day, and I love flirting with gay men who aren't butch, but flirting with a guy who's orientation is more or less like my own would be like dragging my finger nails across a chalkboard. It's just wrong. Violates all the bro codes. Ick.

On the other hand, if women were turned on by straight dudes making out the same way men are turned on by straight women making out, that could be a real motivator for me. But I haven't come across very many such women.
115
@EricaP: Ha ha, that was perfect. I was raised in the wilderness by wolves myself, and I've come to feel lucky about it.
116
PARTY LINE

“Are you… insinuating… something like… a gender-bending, multiply "authored" fantasy?” Asked Mr. Stati hesitantly.
“Your turn Mary,” says Dr. J.
“Don’t know yet,” she replies as she blows her nose and rips a hole in the tissue, “Still thinking.”
117
@114: "flirting with a guy who's orientation is more or less like my own would be like dragging my finger nails across a chalkboard. It's just wrong. Violates all the bro codes."

Sounds like a King Missile scenario.
118
@96: Oh, I didn't see any conflict between the two observations either.
119
Sean @114: "But I haven't come across very many such women." Ohhh, that's what you think!
Actually, no, if I knew both dudes were straight and it was all an act, then the thrill would be gone. Guess that doesn't apply when straight guys look at "lesbian" porn which is obviously anything but.

I would advise you to exercise caution when flirting with gay guys... you know the term "cock tease"? Not fun when it happens to you, is it? And worst case, you may end up with someone like Mr Red Sweater convinced your orientation is not what you say it is.
120
Call me naive, but isn't it possible that LW1's husband is actually telling the truth? I'm not naive, he's not, but when the only acceptable answer you can hear is, "Yes, I cheated on you," that's the toxicness of the distrust right there. He's being placed in a double bind and can't possible extract himself. The fact that he cannot possibly be innocent is where I loose the benefit of the doubt.

It does sound like a revenge fantasy, and I do think her anger and responsibility issues (to who? Her children? Her own financial and social well being?) are clouding her judgment. I agree with Dan's interpretation: it sounds like she doesn't want to get her hands dirty for saving her own face. Why didn't she disclose his status to the mistress? It wasn't out of the goodness of her heart.
121
I don't know thunderbird. It just seems like the best option now for this woman, is to just join all those other women on the planet whose men have cheated, who trusted men enough to breed with them and bang her head hard on the kitchen table yelling Fuck. Fuck. Why was I so fucking stupid?
122
Then pour herself another vodka, and turn on a late movie.
123
That first one gets no respect from me no matter what since she states that they were tested during the work done to have the kids. No one 'deserves' children and it is bad enough having more than the ethical maximum of one, but wasting precious resources by going through medical hoops to have children is selfish. There are so many damn people in the world already and every child born into a rich consumer culture like the US of A is taking up more space than they deserve.
124
Make that two vodkas and several joints.
125
@BiDanFan: I would advise you to exercise caution when flirting with gay guys

Yes, @venn has covered this ground with me before. I have a few twink friends who like to flirt with me, and it's cool, we're all on the same page, and I don't make promises (to men or women) that I don't intend to keep.
126
@106
Hi Auntie! It is past noon and am just sneaking a peek.
Today is the First Time in many weeks I have been too busy to read S.L. (or eat my lunch!)
Being self-employed, "I need the biz" as the old ad once said.
I am thoroughly enjoying the party Line with Mx Wanna & Co. and the kinky therapist. Reminds me of the fabulous movie "Secretary". In-Laws are here for another 4 days. I stocked up on Gin and some "Punch" cigarillos. Will hang out in my garage Mit Martini and a good smoke:...:..none of them will venture into cigar smoke hee hee. I will toast you Auntie and will declare that, if one day we may meet, I owe you
a drink!
127
seandr @114, you can make out with another straight dude for me any time.
128
sb53 @ 126
Alison @ 127
How would you like the party to proceed?
129
Happy Halloween everyone.
What will you be?
I'll be wearing my scary semi-bald, middle age man costume. And I usually opt for the trick.
130

131
http://projects.propublica.org/tables/pe…

http://societyforpsychotherapy.org/ask-t…

(Sorry for the blank post -- somehow I created it when I logged in...)
132
Dressing as a man, CMD! That's a change for you ;)

I'll be cross-dressing as well -- I'll be a hipster, complete with beard and man bun! Now that is scary!
133
Just want to join in with those like @12--to me, it seemed completely clear that the letter writer was asking how to get him to admit what he'd done in therapy WITHOUT risking arrest, and I was flabbergasted when Dan wrote that she wanted him in jail. (That said, @120 has a good point that she doesn't seem willing to consider the possibility that her husband really does have a lying stalker.)

IANAL, but my understanding is that therapists are not supposed to--indeed, not ALLOWED to--report past crimes which they hear about in therapy, only future or ongoing crimes. But I would talk to a lawyer to be sure about that, and I suppose it's possible that not telling his past partners about his status could be considered an ongoing crime in some jurisdictions. At any rate, it seems to me that while the affair, if it happened, is material to the therapy, the status isn't, so much, so the best course might be to hide that from the therapist and be as honest as possible about what cheating was or wasn't going on.
134
Thank you, MaGc. There you go STATUS; your therapist is not going to report your husband to the police. Do you feel better now (or worse)?
135


Mistress B @ 132
Mixing ideology and such while eclipsing the true fun possibilities is as grey an area as a too-late-in-life facial laser that only kills the black hair. Here it is nevertheless:
"It's so much more than just a dress up game. Can't you see it's a way of life?!"
Yes, I know.

Reminds me of an old Chinese proverb: “Biggest party pooper lies within oneself.”
137
Are you serious Hunter? This Therapist is going to jail.
138
CMD, if you gonna allow such gross violations of a woman's agency in your Party Lines, count me out.
141
And to think Hunter that I ever thought you an attractive man, fills me with shame.
141
@12:
"I read AIDS as being:
• If my husband IS honest with the counselor he’ll go to jail, which I don’t want.
• If my husband is NOT honest with the counselor we won’t benefit / be able to coparent effectively.
• What the fuck am I supposed to do?"

Yeah, that's exactly how I read it also.
And noone ever accuses me of having an "overly positive view of human nature."

I reread the letter several times, and I don't know how edited it was, but still can't find evidence that the woman is trying to get her husband in trouble. I'm not even hearing that she really wants to divorce him (or at least is ambivalent), so much as that she doesn't think she can make the situation work without something changing.

As to her husband being honest with the therapist, he could admit to sleeping with the other woman, without reporting his HIV status. And / or, for all we know, his mistress already knows about his HIV status (no law broken). I don't think that "marriage counseling = automatic arrest" at all in this case.
142
ps:
Therapists are mandated to report IMMINENTLY LIFE-THREATENING behaviors, not all ILLEGAL / IMMORAL behaviors. So if you say you're gonna kill yourself / someone else (or if you describe child abuse), they have to do something.

If you confess a past-tense non-violent crime, therapists are neither required nor even usually permitted to do anything about it. If you plan to slowly kill yourself with bad health choices (cigarettes, hamburgers), that's dumb, but not rising to the level of mandatory reporting. If you say that you're having unprotected sex despite secret HIV (+) status, I personally find that unethical, and I think your therapist would probably agree and want to counsel you towards safer / more altruistic behavior, but I doubt they would report it. Can't promise though. If you told a therapist that you had shared HIV and planned to continue having unprotected sex (without partner's informed consent or personal remorse), then they would probably have a greater ethical burden to report you.
143
@110 & @115 seandr and @113: EricaP: LOL---you two win the thread on parenthood.
@126 sb53: Cheers! Thanks for the toast and Happy Halloween to you and yours!
@129 CMDwannabe: Happy Halloween! I am going as an Android dancer, in b& w, complete with beads and a kitty mask from Rocky Horror Picture Show. For the first time in years, Griz has been invited to a Halloween party.

Griz update: Thanks to checking with a trusted tech friend on my computer, I have upgraded to the Finale 2011 Garritan music program at home, and am in much better shape to take on a work-at-home music collaboration assignment with a renowned colleague. It is to my understanding that I can still get upgrades and newer editions of my software programs. This is encouraging news. Like you, sb53, I have to rely on self employment too.

Happy Halloween, Dan and everybody, and happy partying!

144
@94: "I think the wife is conflating "admit to having sex with this other woman" with "tell the therapist you're HIV+".

Maybe. People tend to assume that doctors and therapists know EVERYTHING about them already, which is in some ways true and in other ways false. ALSO, if the therapist is part of the same hospital system where husband's HIV is treated (which isn't a stretch, given how insurance works), then the therapist is probably able to see his chart (EMR electronic medical record), which would include documentation of his HIV status. OR, if husband is on antiretrovirals, and they are going to a psychiatrist with hopes of getting, say, an anti-anxiety med, then they will have to tell the doc his med list and chronic / active conditions.

So, many therapists need not know the HIV status of their clients (patients), but some of them may find out directly inadvertently. It's possible, and I don't think that the wife is necessarily wrong to factor that into her decision making process (although I can't speak to her motivation, without speculating / projecting).
146
I immediately got the feeling that the first letter was about getting ammo for divorce negotiations. LW1's pre-ex should definitely keep his mouth shut unless he knows the mandatory reporting laws for his state. In my state a client has to actually be killing themselves or others in the therapist's office in front of the therapist, at the time said therapist is calling 911, before the legal system would get involved. So he'd be pretty safe here.
147
PARTY (RESCUE) LINE

"Fuck you two," yelled Mary all of a sudden. She shoved Bob away from her who then tipped backwards and knocked down Dr. J who stood behind him.
This was the first time his erected penis came to light in full glory.

Mary stood up, straightened her skirt and walked towards the two men laying on their back on the carpet, full mast fully evident in both cases.
“I’ve had enough, I’m taking over this fucking session boys,” she announced in a loud voice as she gently placed her black patent 3” hill on her husband’s chest.
“You know what to do, don’t you sweetie?”

Bob seemed baffled at first but then it hit him. What started as a fantasy exploration with other women is finally taking shape in his own marriage. At last he realized what a wonderful, smart, strong, sexy wife he has. The one he always craved to submit to since they’ve met in college.
“Tell me Her Majesty and I will gladly obey you,” he said quietly.

“Good boy,” said Mary. “Now let me call my aunt in Australia, my cousin in Britain, aunt Zelda in what seems to be pretty close to here, uncle sb53 who’s hiding in his basement, Alison from north of the border, or anyone else who would like to show you, Dr. J and Hunter how to do it right.
I bet they have some good ideas, let me put them on the speakerphone.”
149
Therapists don't have to report someone who might have committed a crime in the past -- it's a violation of patient confidentiality. They have to report it it they think someone is an imminent danger to themselves or others. What a giant waste of energy this letter is.
151
Lava, this is a crowd-sourced porn film. The actors playing Jack, Mary and Bob read the script before agreeing to participate and the "gay weed" is really oregano, shhh. It's all a bit of fun. None of us would try this at home. :)
152
I know (indirectly) it used to be a Thing for a certain type of straight man to send deliberately mixed signals to gay friends they thought were attracted to them, with the object of luring them into finally making a move in order to be able to retreat behind the I Was Just Being Friendly Card and chalk up another example of both how super-hot he is and how All Gays Are Untrustworthy Straight-Chasers.

My considered guess is that this comes out of a sense of being offended by the perceived liberty taken in finding them attractive. Fortunately, Dr Sean appears free from such a response. To use a Hallowe'en comparison, his flirtations with his SS friends would be on the level of eating a bar of dark chocolate rather than going through a bag of (much worse) candy corn.

I am tempted to advise Dr Sean only to provide MM shows for women if either they aren't feminists or will at least bargain with him that he has their blessing equally to enjoy demonstrations in the FF line. I can assure the assembled company that this goes against self-interest, as I am not one of those who enjoys the theme of turning straight men; the suggestion is wholly altruistic.
153
@147 CMDwannabe: Thank you for the invitation to the Party Line, and Happy Halloween!
@148: Sleep tight, Hunter.
154
Really Fan. So this woman is thrown on the couch , her skirt pulled up.. One guy tells the other guy to stick his dick in her. The guy complies.. At no time is the woman asked if she is ok with this.
Rape is the usual word to describe this behaviour. What next for the troll, pervert, sexist Hunter to throw in? Kiddy porn.. All in the name of fun.
Finally agree with you rowing@dawn, think we should get a petition together to throw the sleaze bag Hunter, off this site.
155
@154 LavaGirl: Hmmmmmm-----in that context, wow. Yes, I'd have to pass on participation in any rape scene. It sounded like CMDwannabe just wanted my 2 cents' worth role-playing as an auntie. You must be enjoying some cool Aussie beach parties during spring break? Hang ten!

vennominon: I hope all is okay your way, and that you have a nice Halloween.
157
Yeah whatever Hunter. Enough of your filth here, ok? Or I'm on to reporting every sleaze bag comment you make.
Young people read these sites, they see an old dude like you talking
rape " in fun" and it communicates attitudes. Attitudes I'm sure Dan Savage does not want on his sites.
158
Lava, Aunt Zelda and possibly others-
BDF was kind enough to throw Hunter into your merciless hands.

Hunter
Nothing personal, I just thought hyping some drama and have your name thrown in may entice the public and mildly improve the extremely poor ratings of “party line.”
Rest assured, both of us proved once again to be a failure.
159
To the honorable one and only
Mistress B
Would you be interested in starting the party line thread next week?
If you do- or anyone else who may be so inclined and is absolutely totally welcome to do just that- would you please be so kind as to include Jose Morinho in the plot?
That ultimate-asshole-in-denial look on his face during the post game interview demands some divine intervention, followed by proper discipline.
160
Grizelda; we've been having lots of fierce storms, rain and overcast weather these last couple of weeks. Happy to have the water tank filled, just not the best for getting to the beach. She'll be back soon though, this hot sun.
Congratulations New Zealand, on winning the Rugby World Cup.
NZ All Blacks, an awesome team.
162
That's it, Hunter? No apology for using a rape image in a game. That's not what I'd call immature, that's purile crap.
163
LavaGirl,

Rape scenes in porn can be hot. Many women include them in their fantasies.
164
This site is not porn, Alison. If a particular woman includes it in her fantasy, then that's very different.
166
A man can include being raped in his fantasy, just as a woman can.
169
Party Line
(business as usual- cont. from Hunter @ 150)

“Well, what do you know sexy fella,” said Dr. J with a smile as he looked Hunter up and down. This is a crowd-sourced live action, and you’re in it…. Me too…” And continued plowing Bobbie.
Disgusted, Hunter rushed to the desk and through the mysterious cigarette in the sink while running the water.

R got kinda mad. “I reject the censorship of thought categorically!” He declared in a loud voice as he pulled his own version of “Ricardo” and stormed out of the house, vowing to never come back unless his true smart, articulate self is being respected in this blog.

While clever, talented R pulled a Ri… and bolted just in time, Hunter wasn’t as lucky. Ass-essing once again the inter-action between the couple and their therapist he headed to the door.
Just as he reached to the handle it swung open and hit his face. Three women stormed inside. They called themselves “The Commonwealth Trio,” they said they were summoned by Dr. J to take good care of someone.

One had a short dark hair and spoke in what sounded like a British accent wannabe. Another said “ought” when she meant “out”, and no one could understand a word the third was saying while waving a strange object that looked liked a cross between a lava lamp and a dildo.
Somewhat slow to appear on the screen subtitles read, “A man can include being raped in his fantasy.”
“That’s great,” said the ought lady, “rape scenes can be hot.”
“Well, I will gladly join in. Let me see you start taking action” said the black-wearing Britt.

“No shit,” thought Hunter to himself as cold sweat ran down his armpits, “This must be what Venn calls YGG.”
170
. Hunter. Think what you like. Fantasize what you like. Obviously as Alison pointed out, there are sites where rape of women is visually acted out for yours' and others' enjoyment.
It's not a joke though. Thinking women just things. It's ugly and a violation of them. Bit late now to change men like you, Not too late to communicate to younger men, that any form of rape, imposing their will or body on a female, is wrong unless the female says that want to play that game.
You could have put words of agreement coming from the woman's mouth, and your scene would have been different. But you didn't. And you still don't seem to notice.
Enough. I'm done with this.

171
Party Line; one of the Commonweath trio, put on her iPhone and let the strains of God Save The Queen remind her that thank god, she could return home soon.
First though she really wanted to catch a Patti Smith concert or poetry reading.
Under her breath she swore at those bloody Kiwis.
172
LavaGirl, my husband fantasises about being raped, and I don't. I do fantasise about him being raped. It's a fantasy. It probably wasn't that wise for anyone to bring it in here, but you can't police people's fantasies.
You say "fantasise what you like" but I just don't think you mean it. Sorry if that sounds a little harsh but it has hit a wee nerve with me!
173
Now you policing what I mean, Busy?
Still, it's true. To fantasize about another person being raped does make me feel uneasy. If your husband doesn't mind you having those fantasies, then he has given you permission.
And obviously Hunter has no problem about his PL people raping men either.
I have never been sexually assaulted, I can imagine for those who have, people doing it in some fun scenario hits more than a nerve for them.
174
Thanks Lava, of course many fantasies will hit an unpleasant nerve for a lot of people, with rape fantasies being especially problematic.
I guess if I fantasised about my husband being raped without ever telling him, then he wouldn't have given me permission, in that case am I doing anything wrong? Not exactly 50 shades of grey but there's a few.
175
Busy, your mind really is your business. I'm just a random on the Internet.. My opinions/ responses are just mine.
It's you, who has to feel ok with how you use your mind in your fantasies.
If another has oked you or anyone, using their image to act out rape in fantasy, or they fine to act it out in real life, then nobody is being hurt in Either world, that's how I see it.
177
@160 LavaGirl: Wow---we're getting a lot of rain here, too. Hope my beloved VW doesn't get flooded! Cheer up, the sun will be back soon.

Halloween for Griz this year just plain rocked--hope everyone else's did too. It was great to attend a Halloween party after all these years---with classic Hitchcock movies (Psycho and The Birds), too. I love Grace Kelly and Eva Marie Saint, but seem to identify even more with Hitch's '60s leading ladies, Janet Leigh and Tippi Hedren.
Afterward, a midnight showing of It's The Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown, and as for Rocky Horror, Griz did---the Time Warp---agaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin! Great to switch to Standard time this morning---extra hour of sleep. Happy November monsoon season, and don't forget to vote!
178
Lava, I think you need a toke of the peace pipe yourself. You're taking this all wayyyy too seriously. I am sorry if it is triggering for you. I read your story of your therapist, it was a very sad situation indeed. My attempts to get the boys to back off the party line in deference to your experience haven't been terribly successful... But as you say in @175, nobody is being hurt. These are fictional characters, there is no "rape victim," and this scenario in no way involved the character saying "no" or "stop", now did it? I think it was you who was a vocal proponent of men taking control and using their "masculine power," wasn't it? Perhaps that's what's going on in this scenario? (Which, I repeat, is entirely fictitious.)
179
Glad you had a happy Halloween, Grizelda! Best holiday of the year. All fun, no guilt. :)
180
@Lava: count me out.

Will do.
181
Party Line ...Bob grabbed Mary's granny panties, tore them off and then plunged in.

Mary gasped as her husband took as much of her as his long cock could reach. She'd never seen Bob like this before, and she found herself wrapping her legs around him, eager to submit.

Then the door opened. It was Lenny, the custodian, a veritable mountain of a man who's fearsome physique was offset by a pair of kind and innocent boyish blue eyes, which beamed at Mary, radiating a mix of confusion, shock, and lust.

"Ma'am, you seem to have gotten yourself into a pickle. Do you need help?" he said.

"Yes. Pickle. Mmmmm. Come here," she ordered, her voice lowering half an octave as Bob gave her an especially deep and deliberate thrust.

Following orders was second nature to Lenny, so he did as he was told. Mary reached over, snapped open his jeans, and pulled them down over a growing bulge that couldn't possibly be as large as it looked. With a tug, the pants came down, and his thick hunk of meat snapped to attention, as if to salute her. She cupped his balls and gently drew him closer until his cock hovered just above her face, casting an almost planetary shadow, and grazing the tip of her nose whenever Bob thrusted.

She turned her head and slowly licked the length of Lenny's cock, from bottom to top, letting her tongue and lips linger at his frenulum, which elicited from him something between a moan and a growl, and which added yet another absurd inch to his manhood.

Jack surveyed the scene, his eyes like those of a kid in a candy store...
183
Perhaps the staff could start a separate thread for the Party of the Week.

I am almost in a good mood after the WTA Finals.
185
Is the party over????

In case you’re baffled by the number of people who wrote to Dan over the years, and the many more who are likely to follow:
Just look at the emotions generated by a mild intercontinental pseudo-masturbatory conversation between total strangers such as ours.
Any wonder people are hesitant to talk about sex with people they DO know???

Yes, we have endured some hardship shooting the party this week. Not only people walked off the set, now Dr. Sean is offering a remake of some already-shot action.
And despite the voluntary warning/guarantee headline we may still be a nuisance to some.

Yet we have prevailed. Our ratings, for whatever reason, were up from the week before. Some interest was generated, and the rules seem to be accepted and understood by more of our peers. In other words, so sorry to disappoint but we’re not going anywhere.

Yet the marketing department suggested being more attentive to the open source crowd. So starting tomorrow, Tuesday, at around 7-8pm Stranger time when the new column is published, each and everyone here will have a chance to publish the first thread of party Line.
Each and everyone else can take it from the LAST Party Line thread published. No cheating this time, Dr. S.
While it will be interesting to build a scenario around a currently discussed topic, you and each and everyone are the sole goddess/directress of your very own picture show!
186
The Dr. may have been playing by the rules after all, "casting an almost planetary shadow."
188
@179 BiDanFan: I know, huh? Halloween definitely rocks!
Woof---what IS it about Tim Curry in a leather jacket and fishnets?

Lava: Has the sun come back out yet for you in Queensland? The sun did here today, just when I went to pick up my beloved VW after winterization---my VW guru is semi-retired, and now only has his shop open every other month. Glad the doc is still in, though, even if only part-time---he's got my automotive love bug running like a fine German watch and purring like a cat. If we have more sunny days in November, the top is coming back down. Road trip!
189
So Sean@180. you'd be happy if some guy treated one of your family this way? Throw her down on the couch and rip her pants off, not checking if she's happy to be treated this way. Good to know where you stand re this sort of behaviour.
And there I was thinking you the opposite sort of guy to Hunter and here you are proving how similar you two are.
190
No Fan, not what I was talking about re masculine power.. The woman agrees to being treated like that beforehand.
Not have some stray therapist throw a woman around and tell some other guy to fuck her.
No, I said if people ok their image being used in rape fantasy
Then nobody is hurt.
Many yrs ago a husband could do this legally..
rape his wife, think this now not allowed. Probably many countries still say men have this right.. Perhaps Sean and Hunter would fit in much better in those countries.
191
@ CMD - thanks for the nods (grin). Busy weekend recovering/moving forward from moving, and didn't get online until today. Looks like I missed quite a bit of ... action.
192
I guess Lava missed the dialogue @104 where the (again fictitious) wife admitted that she was turned on.
193

Lava @ 189, 190
Standing on the sidelines shouting “foul play” and get into arguments with the officials and the media is something Jose Morinho would do when his team is losing.
Why don’t you jump into the pitch and show us all how to do it right?
194
LW1: If your husband goes to jail the odds of you getting child support fall to ZERO. Be careful what you ask for. Also... to all of you that see this as some ploy to get more in the divorce.. well.. in nearly every jurisdiction child support is a set percentage of income and alimony is only given to non-employable spouses. So play all the games you want, it's not going to change much of anything.

    Please wait...

    and remember to be decent to everyone
    all of the time.

    Comments are closed.

    Commenting on this item is available only to members of the site. You can sign in here or create an account here.


    Add a comment
    Preview

    By posting this comment, you are agreeing to our Terms of Use.