Savage Love

Best Served Cold


I am preparing myself for divorce, something he doesn't know, and while I don't want to have him arrested, I feel we need the therapy in order to respectfully co-parent

Translation - I'm taking him to couples therapy under the guise of fixing our relationship, but my real agenda is getting him to confess to something that I can use against him in a custody battle.

That is some toxic shit.
Right. what a bitch. Honesty is what you calling for. Then that's my honesty re your letter. I'm thinking that's not really your business if he fucked her or not, or if they used condoms. Cause you are out the door.
"Your husband is taking his meds and has an undetectable viral load. That means he's effectively noninfectious."

Nitpicking a bit here, but let's be clear. "Undetectable viral load" does not mean "100% virus free". LW says the guy "has never tried to not use a condom when we have had sex". Let's hope he is continuing to play it safe, but either way, you're not the sex police. No doubt, the guy was a dick to you and deserves to get kicked to the curb, but here's the hard part: massive asshole or not, he's still your kids' father, and if he's a good dad (but a piece of shit husband) try to deal with your hurt in a way that does the least damage to your kids. If you love 'em (and again with the caveat that he's a good dad to them), I'd advise against sending daddy up the river. Stick with the therapy/respectfully co-parent plan, and drop the bloodthirsty revenge part.
Until everyone gets a "1984"-style barcode on their forehead we can scan to find out past sexual histories, I guess we'll have to do it the old-fashioned way and just try to avoid dating/marrying assholes. In my experience, the vast majority of them are not that hard to spot.
Holy fuck. Wow about STATUS. I thought my one disastrous marriage was toxic.
Extra sad if their kids are still minors. STATUS's soon-to-be-ex does sounds like a
total asshole, but will still have visiting rights with their children.
I'm no saint myself, but very grateful to have walked away and get on with my life.
Men don't do marriage counseling! The counselor is legally required to tell the judge everything you said in confidence if they are subpoenaed! There are no secrets. And you paid money to screw yourself!
Yes , it's a pity Donny@4, that we can't do pre hook up tests on each other. A finger prick blood test perhaps, like diabetic people do.
Times like this I'm glad I am very careful who puts what near me.
@4 DonnyKlicious and @7 LavaGirl: If only my naivete hadn't been so obvious way back when and I knew then what I do now....*sigh* At least the red flags are much easier for me to spot, nowadays.
@6: Thank you for offering the Number One reason NOT to get married.
I'm still trying to figure out how LW2, who broke up with her NOT!!BI boyfriend has an "our computer history."
A Haskell Award for LW2. She may or may not be the suck-up Eddie was, but she matches the air of butter-wouldn't-melt sanctimony. And that language, as if non-heterosexuality were or ought to be criminalized. What a creep, with bonus points for her framing of the concern that he might give women STDs as being that he would only pick them up from men and only infect women. He doesn't sound like such a prize himself, but I can't quite see enough basis for sentencing them to a Covenant Marriage.
@9: I am assuming it is the computer history on a machine they shared before they broke up.
I read AIDS as being:
• If my husband is honest with the counsellor he’ll go to jail, which I don’t want.
• If my husband isn’t honest with the counsellor we won’t benefit from the counselling, which we need to coparent effectively post-separation.
• What the fuck am I supposed to do?

*** *** ***

Maybe I have an overly positive view of human nature?
Sheesh, what a mess LW1. Your revenge motives are thinly veiled, no doubt driven by the pain of betrayal and the prospect of starting over again. I can relate. However, it seems to me that since you've made up your mind that divorce is inevitable, the best use of your energy at this time is to examine your parenting goals and the relative well-being of your children--at the present moment; as your divorce process plays itself out; and post-divorce once you've both moved on. Your kids' well-being should be priority number one, regardless of his or your feelings and behaviors.

What I don't understand is why you didn't take the opportunity to inform "call me or I'm calling your wife" lady of your husband's status--if you're so concerned about the dangers of his nondisclosure to his other partners.

That you didn't inform her, yet you're focused on the potential of prison time for him--even though YOU don't want to be the one who sings--says a lot about your motives.

I suggest that if you really want to see him behind bars, stop being a coward and make that call YOURSELF instead of passing the buck to required reporters like your therapist.

Then, think long and hard about what you're going to tell your children about their father when the time comes.

@12: I think you meant STATUS (LW1) -- and that was how I read it as well, which was why I was surprised that Dan and others here were so quick to assume she was trying to set him up for jail time. However, she is clearly still working out some anger she has towards him because most of what she is concerned about has very little to do with setting up an effective co-parenting relationship.
@10 Vennominon, my thoughts EXACTLY.

"What a creep, with bonus points for her framing of the concern that he might give women STDs as being that he would only pick them up from men and only infect women."

Self righteousness is often blind to its inconsistencies.

“He claims that he has these urges only when he smokes marijuana.”
I’d say “an enhancer.”

Rachel Meadow Part 2 (discussion continued from last week): I’ve checked with my both sides of the aisles and the two tested very positively to Ms. meadow for being a smart, fun person to hang around with, do stuff, possibly maybe lets hope even some more stuff.
I was also secretly in love with Laurie Anderson some 25 years ago. Now I’m only openly still in love with her.
How embarrassing. Can I say Maddow and still be considered?
@Alison: The idea that you have to fully disclose every sin to a therapist in order to benefit from therapy is so patently ridiculous that I can't believe she's experiencing a genuine dilemma there. Besides, if therapy is really about co-parenting, her soon-to-be-ex-husband's sex life is completely irrelevant. She's doing the classic move of confusing her own agenda with the needs of her kids, and that's what toxic divorces are all about.

I don't think a therapist wouldn't be obligated to report this to the police, but in a contentious divorce, they could be called upon to testify, which would give her quite a bargaining chip in negotiating a divorce settlement. If she's already spoken to a lawyer, which seems likely, they'll have explained all of this to her.
LW1. Your husband sounds like a real douche, and I can understand the white rage that you feel for him. He's lied and cheated on you and who knows how many others he has lied to. And yes, lying about his HIV status is inescusable.
Now you are secretly planning a divorce and trying to justify putting this man in prison.
You sure his behaviour warrants this response? Just find a way to
co- parent, without putting this man in jail.
@12, 14: I read it the exact same way and was quite surprised at the quick-to-attack responses. They definitely make some sense, but I think they were a bit harsh. I really don't think her intention is to send him to jail.
@12, @14 @20. You guys are very kind.
This woman knows he would be liable to jail time, she thinks the therapist would be compelled to alert authorities, and exactly how is his sexual conduct, now she is divorcing him, got anything to do with them negotiating co parenthood?
Although I hate to disagree with seandr, I am with @12, @14, and @20. STATUS didn't pose an actual question, so we are all filling one in for her.
AIDS' ex seems to be claiming that he accidentally bought the gay weed--you know, the kind that chemically (but temporarily) changes your sexual orientation when he meant to buy the straightweed, which doesn't turn straight people gay.

Pretty sure that's not a thing.
Yes she did @22. She said she needs her husband to tell the truth to the therapist re his sexual behaviour, in order to co parent into the future. He has already told her he did not have sexual relations with that woman, to steal a line, yet she doesn't believe him.
It is a set up.
It is a Catch 22.
And for what it's worth, sending one of their parents to jail is one of the worst things you can do to a kid.
By writing to Dan, and giving all that infomation, she is asking indirectly as I see it; How do I proceed?
#16 - I know, right?
Perky short-haired brunettes get me right in the feels.
Hey, Rachel! (makes 'call me' sign w/thumb and pinky.)
These two letters are the sort it's good to read when I think my shit's fucked up.
Peter Staley is well-informed and well-intentioned but hardly "legendary." And I was going to ask (as usual) how much commission he earned for writing half of today's column, but maybe he should get even more for the second half, where Dan touted PrEP, which Mr. Staley seems to think every sexually active gay man should be on whether they think it's right for them or not.
Help me understand why we shouldn't have laws criminalizing the intentional non-disclosure of catastrophic diseases. I read the law in my home state and it clearly exempts an HIV+ person from a crime if they disclose and receive informed consent from their partner. If the argument is that we shouldn't single out HIV, then I agree and would include other diseases that can cause catastrophic illness.

But its seems illogical we should only prosecute when there is a successful transmission of HIV. That is analogous to rewriting DUI laws to say you can drive intoxicated all you want and we will only prosecute if you hit someone.

Mr Hunter - This is why straight chasers need their own orientation.


Mx Wanna - Thank you for clarifying. I was wondering about possible Ms Meadows. I don't know what you want to be considered.
Jesus H. Christ, Mrs. LW 1 be cray. I'll give the mrs a little leeway because monogamy, wedding vows or something. I do believe if you wanna creep outside your marriage, do your due diligence and talk to your spouse about it and see if they're amenable to your creeping. So, she gets a pass.

Getting him thrown in jail won't erase his poz status and you'll be depriving the kiddies time with their father. Although at this rate, dude won't be getting any visitation because you're already gearing up for a custody fight and a divorce that'll totally blindside him.

I will admit I was like 2nd letter writer once upon a time. I can understand her concerns especially when the guy in my situation told me I needed to get tested for HIV because he 'doesn't use condoms with guys because it reduces the sensation'. This, after he swore up and down he wasn't bisexual and just likes to experiment. I lived in Georgia at the time and they have mandatory reporting laws and he always conveniently forgot to go to the health dept and report his status. So, if someone is that irresponsible and selfish, I will take it upon myself to be a creepy stalker and rat him out.
I'd like to see Laws where those who run from their responsibities as parents, are prosecuted. It ain't going to happen, right? Because most of those who run from this are men.
I'm with #12, #14, and #20.
If I were her, I wouldn't believe him either - I'm sure he banged that woman, and let's be honest, probably many others. Even with a condom, and even with an undetectable viral load, I think it's inexcusably shitty to not disclose. The other party should have the right to decide if some relevant information (and even today when it's not generally a death sentence, HIV status is very relevant information - possibly the most relevant information one could provide before having sex, one step above marital status, in fact, IMHO) affects their decision to have sex.
Maybe I am just a prude with an irrational fear of getting HIV.... But I think this is really fucked up. I would've informed the other woman of his status immediately, and not out of revenge, but out of sense of what is right and what I would want someone to do for me. I would want to know so I could get tested and so I could avoid potentially exposing anyone else.
If the laws are unfair and unjust - and I think Dan makes a few good points as to why they may be - then we can fight the laws, but I think its unethical to keep an important piece of information from this other woman. And I think that trumps the ethics of protecting some asshole who put others at risk. We're acting like she's literally putting him into prison and throwing away the key if she tells anyone about his status and fucking another woman. I don't think it's her responsibility to protect him anymore. (That being said, it would be a step too far to, say, alert the prosecutor.)
She's right that they cannot move forward without trust. But she's right to not trust him, and a marriage counselor is a waste of time at this point, because he's a lying piece of shit who doesn't care about other people. Divorce him and co-parent.
12-- Assuming your reading of the letter is the correct one (or even if it's not), here's what she should do. Divorce the CPOS and take him for every penny. Give up on counseling and effective co-parenting and do her best to raise those children on her own or maybe with the extra money from him. In time, maybe start to date to find someone who wants to be an excellent step-father. Don't badmouth their father, but try not to say too much about him one way or the other. If pressed, make vague statements like "we divorced because he was making some bad choices." (Not disclosing HIV status is pretty far up there in the "bad choice" department.)

I'd guess that she sees counseling as something she has to do so it will look like she tried everything and therefore isn't taking the blame for being at fault in this trainwreck of a marriage. I wish I could console her and tell her it doesn't matter who's at fault or if she looks cool for accepting her husband's bisexuality. The only that matters is that the marriage is over and that the children get taken care of.
At least now I know why I'm gay. It was the weed all along.

@ 23 - Does the straightweed turn gay people straight? Coz surely I would have accidentally smoked some by now, and I've never had any hetero urges.
Wait a moment. She hasn't told her husband they're getting divorced. As far as he knows, the therapy is for the marriage. But actually it's for co-parenting. Is she going to be >honest< and tell the therapist that the therapy is for co-parenting and she's already made the decision to divorce her husband regardless of the results of the therapy? Perhaps I'm naive, but wouldn't the therapist knowing what the therapy was intended to accomplish be required for effective therapy?
@37 Crinoline I agree completely, especially with how to deal with co-parenting.

I also think the whole issue of jail is basically a non-issue. It's a real leap - almost paranoid - to think she's planning a revenge scenario by trying to send this guy to prison. I'm surprised Dan made such a huge leap, when he usually takes people's statements at face value.

I think she's concerned about legal ramifications for her husband, even though she wants to divorce him, and she does NOT want him to go to jail, but is obviously conflicted for many reasons. Personally, i think the right thing to do would've been for her to disclose for him to the woman, but the reason she didn't is because she is protecting him. Doesn't that speak to the fact that she is NOT trying to send him to jail?

It never fails to shock me the way SLOG commenters love to really attack the LWs.
Spot on about STATUS Dan. But rather than jumping on the hate-train over STATUS's gas-lighting her husband to get revenge, I would like to point out that STATUS has legitimate grounds to be furious. She tried hard to make the relationship work, she forgave his earlier infidelity (a fucking serious one - getting HIV likely means trashy one night stands or hiring sex workers and using no condoms), and has found that her husband shit all over her pain and hard work and proceeded to go out and continue to have affairs.

I hope STATUS, once she is out of this toxic relationship and the anger is no longer as raw, sees her positive traits (empathy, forgiveness, dedication) return in full force in a relationship with a partner who will earn the privilege of being with her.
@41, I agree with you on grounds to be furious.

What I don't understand is where Dan and others are seeing all this seething anger - I saw none of that. And to call HER the toxic one - for not trusting him!!! when he has proven he is untrustworthy before, and she now has very, very good reason to believe he's lying again - is just really piling insult onto injury. And she didn't even throw herself a pity party, even though she kinda deserves one! She didn't go on, and on, and on, about how hard it was to move on from this, or how he ruined her life, or how much he hurt her - the way most LW's do when they simply get cheated on, much less exposed to HIV.

Jesus H Christ. Dan, you done fucked this one up bad, real bad, and you owe her an apology. Being an advocate for HIV positive people - and believing that these kinds of laws are wrong - does not make this LW the asshole, here. I have no idea how you leapt to a conclusion - that she's is seeking to send her ex to prison - that is quite the opposite of everything she said.

First time for everything - I'm actually really mad at Dan for this one. The LW deserves some sympathy and some good advice. Not to be villainized when she has been the victim of a real careless POS.
Oh, and I'm sorry but Staley is a giant, biased asshole - "isn't the level of distrust here the most toxic part of the story?"


NO, Staley, the most toxic part of the story is the husband potentially putting his wife, children, and who knows how many other random people, at risk of contracting HIV.

Dan says the husband would be a fool to admit having had sex, but he doesn't think the wife would be a fool to believe he didn't? Come ON! And her DISTRUST is the toxic part, when there is no defense other than the word of a proven liar/cheater???

Fuck off today, Dan. You're being an asshole.
@38: Maybe, but judging by her ex's example, it's really easy to get the gayweed by mistake. So even if you had gotten some of the straightweed by mistake, it was probably cancelled out.

@41: In a way, I agree with you: Her husband is a CPOS and absolutely deserves a DTMFA. No one deserves life-ruining episodes of gaslighting, though; they are never, ever justified.

And I think it's tremendously insulting to the LW to assume she's so stupid that when she says "I want him to confess to someone who I think has to report him such that he'll be sent to jail" that she doesn't mean "I want him to go to jail."

Since she's lying to the therapist just as much as he is, "Therapists should never be lied to, no matter the cost" is clearly not her actual motivation, which suggests that we look for other motives. And find the obvious one.
“He claims that he has these urges only when he smokes marijuana.”

One possibility is the definition issue - he is not bi because he only wants relationships with women; men are just for fun and excitement. The pot helps him get the nerve to act and gives an excuse (to himself and others).

I'm not sure if there is a name for "I like sex with men and women, but I only want to marry a (wo)man." This is not "bi-curious" because it is past experimentation and is a known lifestyle/sexuality.
To add to my previous post:

I searching various glossaries I found a few possibilities (but these may not be in common usage.):

Sexual orientation = Bi. and Affection orientation = Heterosexual


MSM -- Men who engage in same-sex behavior, but who may not necessarily self-identify as gay or bisexual.

bbbbbb @45 It's called "bisexual and heteroromantic" or "bisexual and homoromantic."

Hunter76 @36, Crinoline @37, You've got it.

Euadaemonic @44, I think she has conflicting goals and motivations, which is why she couldn't even articulate a question.
I'm not sure if this woman is as vindictive as Dan is painting her. But how hard would it have been to say to the other woman "if you had sex with my husband, then I highly suggest you get an STD check." She doesn't have to yell out AIDS, she doesn't have to break any privacy or risk hubby jail time, but that statement sure as hell would get me to a doctor if I was on the receiving end. I guess her focus on getting this AIDS status information to the therapist instead of actually making sure the other woman is tested is a red flag that Dan is right about her motives. But i hope it was somewhat unintentionally done, and she was deluding her own self about what she wanted.

All sexual partners carry HIV; hep A, B and C; herpes I and II; HPV; and anything else you can think of to worry about until proven otherwise. And even then, they might not be the monogamous type so their status could change.

Sex is something people will lie to get. Act accordingly.
I just love letters like the one from STATUS. They make great litmus tests for potential sane partners. If the response to reading this mess isn't "Leave them all to rot in their own private hell. People like this deserve each other" I just head for the exit.
Disturbingly, he is also dating women. I think this is dangerous because there is such a strong chance that he will give these women an STD, such as AIDS, and destroy both of their lives.

What the actual fuck? How was this bit of homophobic, sex-shaming bull-shittery not addressed? This LW is a turd and I hate her.
Therapy to co-parent is unnecessary. Don't bad-mouth your ex in front of the kids. Pick them up and return them on time, clean, rested, and fed. Maintain the appearance--as much as possible--of a united parental front regarding discipline, agreeing to requests (puppies, later bedtimes/curfews, piercings, concert attendance, etc.).

That's it. You don't need to have "trust" issues resolved, unless you can't trust that the other parent won't kidnap your children or expose them to unsafe situations. You don't need to discuss sex or cheating or STIs at all.
@52: Yes, I was waiting for a comment on that, too.
"This is my biggest issue: I don't think we can work through our problems without honesty. I need him to come clean and admit to me—and our therapist—that he had sex with this woman. If he does, I believe the therapist will be legally obligated to report his behavior to the police. I am preparing myself for divorce, something he doesn't know, and while I don't want to have him arrested, I feel we need the therapy in order to respectfully co-parent—and lying to a therapist or omitting the full truth seems crazy."

This entire paragraph is somewhat baffling to me. I read this as her wanting (or "needing") him to confess to the therapist. If its not for the ability to hold it over him and use in a custody battle... then what is it for? honesty with the therapist? gimme a break.

I think she has every right to be pissed... and should've gotten herself OUT of this situation years ago... he sounds like a self centered pos....

BUT... i simply hate it when people want to "accidentally" do horrible things to one another without taking responsibility for them. You want him to go to jail? you want him to hurt the way he made you hurt? you want to make sure you have every necessary bit of ammo for the custody battle? Fine. You're human. Just have the guts to own it ffs.
Alternate title for this week's column: "Not My Monkey"

STATUS, as noted, feels that nothing less than complete 100% honesty will do in the therapy sessions, yet she is not being honest about her intention to get a divorce. Instead, she feels that "she doesn't want him to get arrested," but at the same time, he should be compelled to disclose something that will get him jailed. Which is, as far as she knows, that he may or may not have had sex, maybe or maybe not with a condom, with someone whom he may or may not have told he was HIV+ and who may or may not be HIV+ herself. Really, this woman knows nothing aside from the fact that he at least told the other woman he was married.

STATUS states: "I need him to come clean and admit to me—and our therapist—that he had sex with this woman. If he does, I believe the therapist will be legally obligated to report his behavior to the police." To follow through to the logical conclusion: "I need him in jail."

AIDS: Your ex's sex life is seriously, seriously not your business. Get a new hobby.
I think Mr. Savage misread STATUS's letter. He read it as "I want him to admit he exposed this woman to HIV so that the therapist will report him to the police. Hooray!" and I read it as "I want him to admit he exposed this woman to HIV for personal reasons but I am afraid that the therapist will report him to the police. How do I get what I want—my husband admitting that I'm not crazy—without getting what I don't want—my husband arrested?"

I can see why a person in couples therapy would want to hear out loud whether his or her partner cheated or not, would want to hear out loud whether a partner is a big enough scumbag to risk someone else's life or not completely independently of wanting to go to jail for it.

And low viral load or not, the woman deserves to know what risk she's taking, if only so she can insist on vigilant condom use, and the woman's husband did not tell her. He's the scumbag here, not her.
@21 and others have been asking, "If she's going to divorce him, how is his sex life relevant?"

1) "I didn't sleep with that woman" usually has a big load of "I didn't sleep with that woman and you're paranoid/crazy/unreasonable for thinking I did." I can see why she'd want to get that cleared up in the presence of a therapist.

2) Because they're still married. She also never said they weren't still sexual, but even if they weren't still married.

3) She said she was "preparing herself for divorce." That can mean planning to divorce, getting bank accounts logged, etc., but it can also mean "emotionally steeling myself for the possibility of divorce." But yeah, she's probably planning for divorce.
LG @34, it's ridiculous to say that men fuck up parenting worse than women do. People, of whatever gender, often screw up parenting.
Re STATUS, I agree with the crowd that doesn't think she wants her husband in jail. What she does want, however, is not entirely consistent, hence the confusion and reaching out for advice.

As I read it, she wants therapy (for co-parenting, for her own sanity, whatever) and believes that in order to get anything out of the therapy, her husband has to be willing to admit to whatever he has or hasn't done. However, if he admits, they run the risk of putting the therapist in a mandatory reporting situation, which could land him in jail. I don't think her wish her is unreasonable. Lying about whether or not he cheated when you're in therapy to address his potential cheating fairly obviously negates the use of therapy. He may even be the instigator in pursuing therapy. If he truly did not cheat, he has every reason to want to address the lack of trust between them. Whether or not they really need to be involved in therapy if she intends to end the marriage is another issue; more in that later.

Nextly, neither she nor her husband has lied to the therapist. We have no idea if either even intends to lie. They have not had a therapy session yet. They have only had an initial consultation. Please stop saying she is lying to the therapist as much as he is. There has been no opportunity for either to lie to anyone but each other yet (and it's kind of a long shot to say that not telling your partner immediately when you're considering divorce is a lie).

And finally, preparing for divorce does not necessarily mean that she is intending to divorce him. And she may very well be using therapy as a way to broach the subject as an option if they are unable to reach a satisfactory conclusion with the help of therapy (either because she decides she can't take the cheating, or because there are insurmountable trust issues, regardless of whether or not he has continued cheating, or any number of other reasons).

Overall, what she feels she needs from him (admission of guilt) seems to be in conflict with what she doesn't want for him (jail time), and a far more useful answer would have addressed whether or not mandatory reporters in her state would actually be legally obligated to report should he admit to cheating, and whether or not therapy is even a useful route if she is serious about divorce and concerned about the legal ramifications. The only thing that is unclear to me why she assumes that if he cheated he also didn't disclose his status, but it may just be an overdeveloped "what if" situation where she is considering the worst possible outcome to the situation.
I agree Erica@59. I'm talking about parents who absent themselves completely from the task. Maybe the Laws get some money from the absent parent, it's not just money needed as all parents are aware. It's time and love.
Lots and lots of single Mothers around, and the culture just says bleh.

DRF @57: "I read it as "I want him to admit he exposed this woman to HIV for personal reasons but I am afraid that the therapist will report him to the police. How do I get what I want—my husband admitting that I'm not crazy—without getting what I don't want—my husband arrested?"

Ahh... So basically, you insert a "but" at the beginning of the second of those two sentences I extracted, and you get your meaning. "I need him to come clean and admit to me—and our therapist—that he had sex with this woman. BUT If he does, I believe the therapist will be legally obligated to report his behavior to the police."
Anyone who's fucking someone who's cheating on their spouse should insist on vigilant condom use, full stop.
@60. What am I missing? This woman doesn't believe him. He is caught between a rock and a hard place. She may not be conscious of the set up she is creating by insisting on his honesty.. Which he insists he has given, it's just not the honesty she wants. She wants the other honesty, where he owns up to fucking the other woman.
She is divorcing him.. Behind his back. Why does she need her version of his honesty if she is leaving him?
Mind Fuck.
Agree Fan@63. Obviously with so many STDs around, it should be basis practice.
@12 Alison, @14 The Other Chad, @20 jack chandelier, and @21 LavaGirl: I don't see my comments (@5) viciously attacking STATUS about seeking revenge on her lying, cheating spouse, although he really does sound like a total prick. I was just expressing my sad amazement about the toxicity level of STATUS's unhealthy marriage. Hers is a sad, messy situation. However, I actually agree with you, Dan, and others that STATUS's seeking to throw her soon-to-be-ex CPOS spouse in jail isn't the best solution.
@Hunter78: when a gay would sprinkle me with "fairy dust", which was supposed to convert me.

Speaking from experience, that stuff only works if they sprinkle it in your drink. At least I think it works - my recollection of what happened next is a bit cloudy.
@41 unknown_entity: I agree with you the very most concerning STATUS.
Best to my knowledge and belief, after fourteen years, my thrice married ex isn't in prison, but I have forgiven him and since moved on. I guess at this point in my life, my only remaining aftermath is amazement at how such an abusive, mentally unhinged man could at one time isolate me, and manipulate me into such a toxic relationship. Anyone else who is or who has gone through this type of nightmare has my deepest heartfelt sympathy.
LavaGirl: I know this is after the fact, but what did you mean in @182 about my friend (from One Last Time in last week's Savage Love)? Like, Ouch! Bad moment?--okay, I'll shake it off. I know I have had some weird moments over this past month, but I'm dealing with them the best I know how. Hope all is okay with you. Okay. Enough about last week.
Back to STATUS and AIDS.
Nail polish Sean. Some guys have invented a nail polish that when you stir a drink with your finger, if it is laced with any date drug.. will change colour.
Like seriously her husband cheated got HIV and is possibly cheating again, and to say he can't give someone else HIV because he's taking his meds is the most ludicrous piece of shit I've ever read you can totally give someone HIV even if your taking your med. the meds arnt a cure their just so you don't die in 3 weeks, they keep you from contracting full blown AIDS. I'll never read this shit again.It should be illegal to give such terrible and deadly advice
This Week’s party is loosely based on LW1, sans any real or imagined sinister agenda. Circumstances are also slightly less poisoned.
A het couple goes to couples therapy. Wife discovered husband checks out gay porn on occasion, emails pointing to possible contacts with men. She wants some clarifications, husband to be honest, she may even have some (extremely positive) ideas about the possibilities, but she won’t say anything nor act on it till she feels he’s honest.
Husband says only “mildly gay” while under the influence.
Therapist asks few more questions, they decide to meet again the next week.

After the session the thoughtful therapist, WHO’S GENDER WILL BE REVEALED BY THE FIRST PERSON TO JOIN THE PARTY LINE, decides that in order to better understand the male client “they” should conduct the next session while under the influence.

“They”- a therapist who’s eager to find out “their” gender assignment from the first person to pick up this party line- have a translator acquaintance “they” work with occasionally. His translations seem to be suspiciously creative at times.

“This bud’s for you though I doubt it works,” says R as he hands the therapist a tiny plastic bag.
One hour prior to the appointment the therapist inhales, brushes teeth, eye drops, sweetened yogurt with under ripe banana, unsweetened green tea with over toasted rice, compulsive gum chewing.

The couple is greeted as they enter the clinic section of the therapist’s modest house.
Lava @70: I don't think that has actually gone into production yet. And even I got that Sean was being facetious ;)
Hmm CMD... Your referring to the therapist as "they", along with the therapist's willingness to indulge in the same treatment that has had such mind-opening results for the client, suggests that there may be more under the therapist's short, fitted skirt than the innocent OS couple are expecting...!
oh Fan. You think I don't know when Sean is being face something?
He's a closet case. As is Hunter.
It is just so obvious. Both of them scream out how hetero they are which obviously means? Yes? The opposite.
Hey, who wants to debate whether a straight guy watching porn constitutes cheating on his girlfriend?
What? Thought this thread was over.
Yes Fan; I did know where Sean was coming from. My comment was also a joke/ with the added bonus of imparting infomation. And no I'm not going to use a funny face when I make jokes. It's like a where's wally game.
I think you and I could be a great
Laurel and Hardy Team.
CMD; for one, I can't in all faith join a Party Line where the Therapist is bent.
And second, us dope addicts trying to stay off the stuff, cannot hear/ read the word Bud, without being set off.
A Therapist I went to yrs ago with my ex, we did try, used to knock off his female patients. He was threatened by one of the husbands, to be exposed to medical board.. Then he killed himself.
I also agree with Alison's interpretation (comment 12). STATUS seems to be complaining about how the disclosure law is preventing her from getting effective therapy, not plotting to trick her husband into prison.

Perhaps Dan just wanted to let Staley rail against HIV disclosure laws. This letter was the only one he had that mentioned them, and he desperately wanted it to be an example of partners using the law to "lash out." Or perhaps he was just drunk on a plane again.
If that is one of your ambiguous ques Hunter. No. I didn't fuck him.
And yes, I thought him a good therapist, though obviously he wasn't a great therapist. I liked him a lot, it was all very sad.
If I got indignant at all of your stupid comments , Hunter, I'd run out of indignants.
She wants him to go through his problems and stop lying, and she's preparing herself for when he inevitably lies once again and fails to be a good father.
Corbin Fan @ 74
So is it the built-in or the strapped-on?
Corbin Fan @ 74- take 2
The "they" was my take on the gender-neutral lingo.
If sex with someone who is HIV positive is such a safe activity with such a low risk of transmission, how exactly did the husband get infected in the first place?
Someone who is HIV+, is on medication and has an undetectable viral load is extremely low risk for transmitting HIV. If he uses condoms as conscientiously with his affairs as he does with his wife, it's effectively nil.

Presumably he caught HIV from someone who did not have an undetectable viral load.
It's safe with a responsible, conscientious, honest partner. That doesn't sound like the husband to me. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if he were less careful with his other partners.
I think the wife is conflating "admit to having sex with this other woman" with "tell the therapist you're HIV+". It's not actually necessary to tell the therapist, and if the therapist doesn't know he's poz, there's no obligation to report him to the police. I'm not sure why the wife hasn't realized this unless she really is as vindictive as Dan and some posters believe. There simply isn't time to tell a therapist everything, and his HIV status has nothing to do with his co-parenting, and the wife already knows about it.

I'm inclined to agree with Crinoline about this POS, but Old Crow has a good point about the husband not being the only dishonest person in the therapist's office.
LW 1 either 1) doesn't really know what she wants (charitable interpretation), 2) has conflicting desires, and difficulty articulating them, or 3) wants revenge and tries to present herself in a sympathetic light to win audience points, but doesn't care to be consistent enough in her story to fool the audience into thinking she's 100% the good guy..

Seandr, are you flirting with Hunter?
What's the actual legal requirement for marriage counselors to report someone who is HIV positive having undisclosed unprotected sex? I know that there's mandatory reporting for someone who admits to having sex with minors, and I know that there's mandatory reporting for someone who admits to murder or tells a therapist about an actual credible plan to commit murder-- as opposed to disturbing fantasies. But what about undisclosed unprotected sex (whether or not that is indeed what this guy is doing)? For that matter, do mandatory reporting laws apply to things like run-of-the-mill adultery, or shoplifting, or embezzlement?

94-Chase-- I agree also that both husband and wife are dishonest. My point about his being a CPOS is that she may be a POS too, but it doesn't matter. They need to divorce and move forward from here, not stay in couples counseling to learn to get along better for any reason.
Truvada shouldn't be prescribed to people just because they're having gay sex. The side effects are horrible, and people are unlikely to do exactly what they need to do (i.e., take the pill every single day, still use condoms, get HIV tested every couple of months), leading to scary, drug-resistant HIV/AIDS. Dan, I wish you wouldn't recommend Truvada to people who are not at super high risk for contracting HIV, such as health care workers who work with HIV+ positive people.
CMD @87: I did get that your use of "they" was to imply gender ambuguity, not genderqueer. But I chose to put my own spin on it, as per your invitation :)

Ah, the written word, so rich and descriptive, so easily misinterpreted!

I am going with STATUS's omission of the crucial "but" as Freudian. She doesn't want to see her husband arrested, but deep down she thinks that is what he deserves. Granting her the benefit of the doubt, surely husband could (hypothetically) fess up to both cheating and being HIV positive while leaving ambiguity over whether he used a condom and/or disclosed, which only he and his mistress know for sure? Doesn't sound like he wants to fess up to anything, which, as Dan says, I kinda don't blame him. He's got himself into enough trouble already.

Hunter, want to make the decision on what our shapely but gender-ambuguous therapist's panties contain? (We can omit the smoking of the peace pipe, if that offends Lava.)
Ambuguous. Ha, that's a new one!
@Still Thinking: Seandr, are you flirting with Hunter?

I can't even describe the squick.
Busy; are you heading down to see Dan over the weekend ? Sounds like it will be a fun conference.
Go Australia in the Rugby World Cup final. We can we must we may beat you guys.
"So, Bob," Jack began. "Your wife says she caught you looking at gay porn? Are you gay?"

"I'm definitely not gay," said Bob. "I love pussy. I love fucking my wife. But I've always been kinda attracted to guys too. I thought everyone must be a little bit bi. But then I met Mary and we fell in love and it kinda seemed beside the point."

"So you no longer want to suck cock?" Jack said.

"Well, I admit I've always wanted to try it, you know, just to find out for sure. I guess I'll never have the opportunity."

I think I can solve your problem, the therapist thought, adjusting his skirt slightly.

"And what about you, Mary? What did you do when you found the gay porn?"

"Well, I was shocked," she said.

"And what about after you got over the shock? You continued to watch it, didn't you?"

"Well, yes... actually it was kinda hot," Mary admitted.

@39, "Perhaps I'm naive, but wouldn't the therapist knowing what the therapy was intended to accomplish be required for effective therapy?"

That IS how it works.
SB53: Griz says hi among the first for your weekly Friday morning treat......

@72 CMDwannabe: Your Party sounds like a hoot.
@95 StillThinking and @102 seandr: Thank you both--this made my evening.
Right now I feel pretty squicky about the term 'high viral load'.
@70: That sounds like a Mickey.

“So what do you think Mary?” asked Dr. J slowly in a soft voice.“Is there a middle ground for you and hubby to compromise on?”
“I’m not sure anymore. I feel so betrayed, “ said Mary quietly as she reached to the tissue box on the table.

Dr. J turned his head slightly to the right. “Well Bobbie, if this relationship is important to you, and I do want to emphasize that I certainly sense that this is absolutely no question whatsoever and I never ever doubted that this is indeed the case, then what do you think needs to be done in order to restore your beloved wife’s trust?”
@EricaP: People, of whatever gender, often screw up parenting.


Except for the gays. They always seem to nail it. I'm seriously considering finding a gay couple to adopt my kids. They deserve better.
@105 seandr - this just sounded a little suggestive to me:
"...stuff only works if they sprinkle it in your drink. At least I think it works - my recollection of what happened next is a bit cloudy".

Needn't worry - Hunter is off in gender-bending, multiply "authored" fantasy land with CMD and BiDanFan.