Savage Love

Hard Work

Comments

1
Letter one: How do you think the old homely guy feels? Having to pay for love and affection? The basic elements we all need! I would feel so bad for him I'd do him for free. We all need that human touch. Bonus round: One day you will be old. Good Luck!
2
SOTEMPTED: Agree that it's really important to negotiate what you're willing to do. He's offering a lot of money, so maybe he thinks that he can do whatever he wants with/to you. Better safe than sorry.

Letter 2: Perfect advice from Dan!
3
Who needs lube for an anal finger job? A midget? That dude from game of thrones? Besides, it's not the penetration, it's the tickling!
4
2Pro Even "manly men" like a finger up their butt every now and then, and since your guy has already expressed a desire for it no further discussion is needed. Just lube up and stick 'er in next time you're playing. Oh, and everyone who has a partner with a dick out there might want to check out this (or other) links: https://www.lelo.com/blog/five-questions…
5
Letting a woman massage your asshole while she blows you is a tremendous act of courage. Let's take a moment to honor all the brave men who have willingly put themselves in harms way.
6
2PON2P: Here's a suggestion based on my experience: if you've never had a finger up your own butt, try it on yourself first to see what it's like. Personally, I don't think lube is a must for anal fingering (as @3 suggests), but it definitely can't hurt. Oh, and keep your fingernails short.
7
"Check your privilege" might have been what the cool kids were saying five to ten years ago, but the really cool ones now have less loaded ways to convey that meaning when they so wish.

I'm still pretty stunned that the ultimate dismissal of people's possessing any scintilla of human worth is that they aren't lookers. I don't know why, though; you'd think it wouldn't surprise me by now.

Mainly, though, I feel such a deep despair in the letter. $3,000 may help with a few of the symptoms, but it won't really patch up a wounded spirit. Oh, dear. This letter is going to make me a good deal more depressed than usual. At least he's not my serial complimenter (I still haven't recovered from that yet).
8
$3,000 is a suspiciously hefty sum, even for a sleepover. The client may have extra curricular activities in mind, which could prove disastrous to the person approached.
Legalization is likely to improve workers’ safety. Clients will be safer too.

“He is a manly man and conservative.”
The manly man makes me laugh, yet I’m delighted to see blowjobs are nothing but an ordinary, uneventful, common practice among conservatives. One can only hope reciprocation is just as popular
9
Gotta love Dan Savage, the only widely syndicated column likely to spend 400 words convincing you to do sex work. Haha.
And for LW2: I agree with others that lube is probably not neccesary for inserting a pinkie up to the first knuckle but certainly couldn't hurt for next time!
10
The reason that Certified and Licensed Massage Therapists bristle at being compared to sex workers isn't because we think there is anything wrong with sex work. It's because we are often victims of sexual assault by clients who've been let to believe that what we do is a front to sex work, and when we refuse on ethical and legal grounds to perform a sex act, these misled individuals think they're justified in taking it by force.

Thank you, Dan, for contributing to the misinformation that leads sexual assault of health professionals who've devoted many hours of study, passed medical boards and received certification and maintained state licensure in our profession. Next time, try comparing sex service to other service jobs, maybe waiting tables or being a retail clerk, where a sexual implication would not be taken seriously.
11
Venn @7: I think you're conflating "human worth" with "fuckability." There are thousands of worthy humans out there whom I wouldn't want to fuck.

And I wish there was a "like" button for BeingABear's comment @10. Sounds like you've had some unpleasant experiences, Bear :(
12
I also agree the $3,000 sounds suspicious. SOTEMPTED should probably hire a bodyguard/minder with part of those earnings.
13
"...and I've done more humiliating things for a lot less money."

Haven't we all? Take the money, take the sex, but don't take any more shit from your friends about it.
14
If you're giving him a blow job, there is a lot of spit around. Use some of that.
15
Giving a conservative a blowjob? Why? Why would you do this? It'll only encourage him. DTMFA!
16
@10 How exactly did Dan contribute to sexual assault? Dan emphasizes the consensual nature of the arrangements and simply points out that in both cases you have people being paid to be physically in contact with someone. Blaming him for the sense of sexual entitlement that many males carry with them is pretty ridiculous. And let's be honest - people associate massages with sex not because of casual comparisons of massage therapists to sex workers, but rather because there are many people who do sex work under the guise of providing massages, and they do that because sex work is illegal and stigmatized.
17
I have three pieces of advice for SOTEMPTED: 1. Read Christopher Daniels' "Money's On the Dresser". 2. Start hanging out w/a better class of friends, and 3. Do NOT see the film "Pretty Woman", the script of which was originally called "Three Thousand"!
18
Ms Fan - It was a comment on how the two are conflated by others, deliberately overstated because it made me crabby to see the way, "they weren't lookers," served as practically the only comment needed about people to dismiss them from the lists of the Deserving. Just consider how offensive it is to many of the generally recognized Hot and Humpworthy (an adapted take on the Great and Good) when two people (or larger groups, if it comes to that) who are deemed unattractive by the H&H have the audacity to be attracted to each other and - horror of horrors - even act on that attraction to long-term mutual enjoyment.

Now I'm willing to agree the problem isn't going anywhere anytime soon. This even (in a variation) goes back to Miss Austen and her mocking Mrs Musgrove's large, fat sighings over her dead son, for whom, when alive, nobody had much cared:

"Personal size and mental sorrow have certainly no necessary proportions. A large bulky figure has as good a right to be in deep affliction as the most graceful set of limbs in the world. But, fair or not fair, there are unbecoming conjunctions, which reason will patronise in vain - which taste cannot tolerate - which ridicule will seize."
19
For the second LW, I recommend that she indeed stuff a pinky up his ass and let him enjoy it greatly. But afterwards, she needs to break the news to him: receiving and enjoying anal play is something ONLY gay men could possibly enjoy, and he is now firmly and irretrievably on the roster of Team Homo.
20
@SOTEMPTED
I can speak from my own experience that when I hire a sex worker I am hiring them so that I get to fantasize that I have an attractive, sex positive girlfriend, not just hiring someone to give me an orgasm. And in sex worker positive articles I have read one of the challenges for many sex workers is emotional intimacy with their clients. I could be honest with sex workers about what I wanted, what I was insecure about, and also let them take the lead to learn what turned me on - I discovered that I was turned on by women making sounds, talking dirty, saying my name, all things I had thought would make no difference.
So focusing on your situation, I assume based on the $3,000 price the guy in question wants at least an overnight, if not a weekend with you. That says to me he wants the fantasy of dating an attractive man who is at his sexual peak. If the client was ONLY interested in sex he purchase anywhere from 6 to 15 one hour sessions with escorts for the same $3,000.
Ultimately, I say give it a shot. Do your due diligence - read up on guides to hiring escorts, have a friend you will call to let him know that you are safe (or if no call comes, send in the police), if he wants to take you some place get the full details of where that is and how you could leave if you have to call things off, etc.
21
trim your nails -- and also tell that "brave" man to wash his ass
22
Dan's advice to SOTEMPTED was thorough but for the lack of addressing the pervasive sense of despair in the letter. Making a decision such as this at a time when his emotional state may not withstand what sounds to be a preconceived sense of shame associated with sex work, may not be the best for SOTEMPTED. I hate to sound like the granny that I am but it seems that the LW might benefit from counseling services for his dispair. Many states' counties have social service departments that can assist in finding low or no cost mental health counseling services.

Whether or not the LW proceeds with accepting this or future sex work offer(s), he might consider looking to his local community college for courses that could take him on the road to a career path different from that of his current dead end job. Community colleges have financial advisors to assist with the financial aid application process. Even if he decided to pursue sex work beyond this one-time offer, taking college courses may help to show him he always has choices.

23
I can speak from experience about the emotional toll of sex-work. I earned quite a bit of money providing sexual services in strip clubs and at parties in my twenties. detaching and engaging in 'meta sex' was a turn-on for me. I had a really great body which I knew wouldn't last forever. It was easy to get laid in those days, but not always easy to get paid. When I did get paid for sex, it was usually a grand or two per night. I only ever engaged in activities that I enjoyed. When I walked away with the cash, I felt triumphant. Often I would have been thrilled to do these guys (frequently professional athletes) for free. But the emotional toll that it took in the long run that made it unsustainable was that I started to feel badly about myself when I didn't get paid for sex. Too many experiences started to make me feel cheap and taken advantage of: Getting manipulated into doing the act first and then having the guy tell me he only had $300, or that he didn't have any money at all. Also, I typically abused alcohol, cocaine, and pills with these men and over time, dependency nearly ruined me. Admittedly, most of what caused me to feel used was my own stupidity (neglecting to settle up first, partying too much, etc.) but the stigma towards sex work also emboldened these men in their desire to treat me as though I was unworthy of respect. The illegality an stigma creates an environment that validates dehumanizing attitudes towards sex workers. The LW should watch out for that and as Dan said, take care to protect his own emotional and physical health as well as always collecting the cash before committing the act! I don't regret having done the work, I do wish I had been smarter about it. I especially wish I had put more of my earnings toward long-term savings for retirement rather than blowing so much of the money on cocaine fueled drinking binges and air fare to Las Vegas.
24
estabien @ 16
The fact that Dr Sprankle associates sex workers with massage therapists, and only with them, already indicates the conscious or unconscious connection.
He also provides some ambiguous analogies between the two that seem to tie them together, even if not meaning to do so.

I can see why BeingABear with a grasshopper avatar @ 10 is getting upset.

25
@5 seandr

Thank you for your service?
26
SOTEMPTED

Have you considered relocating to a less expensive area, you know, rather than becoming a prostitute?
28
"That's for the next time you're feeling brave." ... probably also want to keep some baby wipes and/or a hand towel on the nightstand for that special moment.
29
SOTEMPTED: I'm with @8 CMDwannabe about watching your ass [re: the offer of $3,000.00 for one sleepover], and @26 the_ghost_of_mrj: (to SOTEMPTED): If the community where you currently live in is so prohibitively expensive, you might consider relocating to a still safe and desirable but more affordable neighborhood.

30
@5 seandr; Hug a veteran! XO
You're welcome.
31
Letter Two:

BF should also be reminded to make sure he's nice and clean before requesting anything in the back oriface ;)
32
Re LW1, thanks Dan and guest, think we all pretty clear what sex work involves.
LW, if you are freaked out about going this way, don't go there. Big bucks or not.
You are young, whatever dumb choices you've made in the past, not too late to change direction.
33
SOTEMPTED is twenty four fer krissake!
'Bad choices,' (usually a euphemism for drunk/addict)
Low income/dead-end job
Expensive city.

All of these are TEMPORARY conditions. Which can be altered for the better. So is mercenary sex. Indeed, sex-work MIGHT be a reasonable method for gathering a grubstake suitable for education, relocation, drying-out etc. etc. It doesn't sound as if the LW is going to be able to do such work without a very hard emotional and intellectual accommodation.

But whatever he chooses to do, and whatever the result—barring ignoring basic safety and security measures—is temporary too.
34
I have a boring grunt work desk job. I hate it. I did sex work for about a year. I never told any family or friends and had a fake job/employer/story. It's the best job I had. It paid well, had great hours and I was good at it. I never had a pimp or used drugs and mostly had clients who were looking for the emotional intimacy, flirting and someone to listen to them. But the no health insurance benefits and constant fear of being outed legally to everyone was too much. I sometimes think about going back into it.
35
Guess the take-away from Bri and Sexypants' posts is that sex work is a good short-term career move, but quit while you're ahead. Um, so to speak.
36
SOTEMPTED if you're going to do this do the homework first. Meet the guy in a public place, more than once. Ask him what he expects from you. Inform friends of what's going on and have buddy check on you during the meeting and if you go through with it.

I agree with #8. There's something off about this situation. If the guy has that much money to throw around why not hire an escort instead of offering it to a stranger on the internet?
37
Msanon@36, Ive been thinking the same. For that sort of money he'll expect to own this young man, for however long, doing whatever.
If the LW wants to go into sex work, be smart about it. Screen his clients, charge a reasonable rate and enjoy it.
38
It seems like whenever people bring up the drawbacks of sex work, they're (almost!) always talking about the drawbacks of it being illegal.

The exception seems to be that the effort involved in providing the "girlfriend experience" takes its toll, so it would be unhealthy as a long-term career. But that's also true of other jobs.
39
I think that doing sex work would decrease my enjoyment of sex. And I like liking sex.

Right now, I have sex because I want to have fun with someone I like. If I started to have sex to pay my bills too, I think I would get out of the habit of expecting my sexual pleasure to be treated as equally important, and into the habit of expecting money instead. I would hate to learn to demand money instead of equal sexual attention, or to be disappointed with free sex because I expect money.
40
Philo @ 39
People who like cooking can still be in the food industry and get to negotiate their pay rate.
I agree there's a difference and sex work can be much more demanding in many ways. But if the industry was legal and regulated it could also mean an accepted price for a certain act/service.

Many off us hate our jobs regardless of legality, prestige and pay. Ask any other code writer.
41
Once again a social progressive says "Well we really shouldn't think this way, so let's pretend it's not true!" Spankle is engaging in a huge amount of wishful thinking. Prostitutes face violence and stigma because sex is different from other services and while I can't speak for this particular client, the whole culture is conditioned to believe that people who perform sex acts for money deserve to be treated like property ("I'm paying you, so you have to do X and Y and I don't have to show you any respect, the way I would if this were a favor or subject to prevailing etiquette"). Thousands of years of culture don't go away. Also, let's say that sex should just be considered just another saleable service: Consider recent psychological studies showing that people place emotionally motivated and payment-motivated services in two different categories. (Example: You'd pick up a friend at the airport for free, but you'd be insulted if they offered to pay you $2 for it.)

Like it or not, introducing money into sex or sex into money changes the experience, and telling SOTEMPTED to act like the stigma is solely a silly holdover is reckless and could do him considerable harm.
42
Two amendments: "SpRankle," sorry.
Social conservatives probably engage in more wishful thinking than social progressives, but is that really where we want to copy them? "The world should work this way, so let's ignore how it does work" usually doesn't help, no matter whose red or blue mouth it comes from.
43
@41: "I'm paying you, so you have to do X and Y and I don't have to show you any respect, the way I would if this were a favor or subject to prevailing etiquette."

No one is arguing that sex work wouldn't still be, like, a job.
45
C'mom, sex and money/ prestige have been intertwined forever. People marry for money, for prestige. Stay married for those reasons.
Philo, you're a smart girl, you'd be able to remember if this sex was the money sex or the relationship sex.
46
I came up with a new concept today. On hearing videos with two noises that sounded extremely similar, I decided to combine them into the "golf fap".
47
Isn't maintenance sex similar to sex work. Trade off sex. If I fuck him even if I don't want to, he stays happy, the kids keep a dad and I don't have to do the whole damn job on my own.

I think high end escort could be interesting and instructive. Be selective the men one wants to take on, enjoy male company and get paid for it.
As a poster above says, most of them are also hungry for emotional connection.
48
@Eud: The exception seems to be that the effort involved in providing the "girlfriend experience" takes its toll

I don't think that generalization holds. Lots of sex workers specifically advertise the girlfriend experience, and many report enjoying that part of the job. (Mistress Matisse, for example, has written about some pretty awesome working "vacations".)

It seems to me there are a lot of parallels between sex work and therapy, and the key to job satisfaction as a therapist is client screening (assuming you can afford to turn away clients). You screen out people looking for services you don't enjoy, you screen out overly demanding people, you screen out people who set off red flags in your initial phone conversation, you screen out people who are poorly reviewed by providers they've seen in the past. And as a sex worker, you can screen out existing clients if you come to the realization that you don't like them (much harder to do as a therapist).

Of course, there are providers who specialize in difficult clients, either by choice (someone has to treat borderline personality disorder or do couples therapy) or because they need the business. I would imagine those providers, if they are savvy, develop skills for setting the boundaries required to make their job tolerable, if not satisfying.
50
Yes Sean. I think of sex work as therapy of a kind as well.
We have lenient laws re sex work in some parts of Australia. That it's still
Illegal in the US is just another view of widespread hypocrisy. Keeps it all dirty I guess. Those farm boys love to be dirty.
51
Great graphic.
52
He should do it. 3k is 3k. I was never above the odd hundred or so for "carfare"
53
Re: 51, yeah, another brilliantly imaginative illustration by Joe Newton. @ Dan, when are you going to do a feature on him, maybe with some of his favorite work included? In the meantime: http://josephnewton.com/
54
Also, re: the first letter, since it's not super-obvious from SWOPUSA's home page, safety resources are here: http://www.swopusa.org/resources/safety-…
55
"I've done more humiliating things for a lot less money."

What things? Singing the Wal-Mart employee cheer? How do you know it was more humiliating if you haven't tried this new thing? What does this even mean?
56
DRF @ 41
Intended or not, this is a fairly strong pro-legalization statement.
57
@5 - and then there's realizing that it's the woman's husband doing it...
58
@Lava I think you're missing an important part of maintence sex which is caring about your partner and wanting them to be happy. Being invested in their well-being enough to do things you aren't hot for. [And of course they should do the same for you].
59
Being offered $3,000 by some random guy on Grindr and actually getting the $3,000 are two different things. Guys who get paid that kind of money are well know, extremely attractive porn actors with "special skills" of various sorts. I have an attractive college aged friend who is a sex worker. He generally gets $100 an hour. That seems to be the going rate, at least in Chicago.
60
CMD [40] - People who like cooking can still be in the food industry and get to negotiate their pay rate.
Yes, a chef is a good example. I asked google if a chef cooked at home:
http://www.cheftalk.com/t/55820/what-do-…
The first response was pretty representative:
"Honestly? I eat fast food when I am at home. The last thing I want to do is cook...and have to clean ANOTHER kitchen."

I don't have a problem with the pay. But I think it would have pretty bad effects on my sexual relationships.

Lava - Philo, you're a smart girl, you'd be able to remember if this sex was the money sex or the relationship sex.
I found this condescending. The point is not my memory or intelligence. The point is I know myself pretty well and I think I'd dislike it. I would dislike a decrease in my sexual enjoyment. The habit of work sex seems like the riskiest for me, but you're also exposing yourself to more chance of having boring, uncomfortable or downright painful sexual experiences by taking clients, which would also decrease general sexual desire. I also only provide maintenance sex if my partner is receptive to giving me maintenance sex, for similar reasons.
61
I was just playing with you Philo. Sorry if my sharp tongue caused offense. This scorching heat doesn't help keep my temper even.
62
@47, it's the combination of sex with money that's the problem. Like I said, there have been psychological studies showing that people put action-for-money in one category and action-for-loyalty/other-emotional-reason in another. Maintenance sex would be in the second category, not the first.
@49, actually selling the work of one's hands is more common than selling the work of one's brain.
63
Philo @ 60
It's ok if being a sex worker is not your thing, you are indeed with the overwhelming majority.
I would still argue that there are people who cook for a living and also at home. I know some of them in person, we meet some times and everyone brings something they made. They don't post all their thoughts online, and when they do eat out fast food is never a destination.
64
@25 & @26 ghost_of_mrj: This is a bit off the topic thread, but I love your Beetlejuice avatar, by the way.



65
@51 Call me Scott and @53 rob!: Agreed. Joe, your graphics continue to rock the house!
Dan, how a feature on the highly talented Joe Newton?

@64: I have been paying closer attention to avatars, lately, after misreading Eudaemonic's by a long shot (And no, ChairmanOfTheBored, I am NOT presently staring at your ass).
66
@48 seandr: I hope I didn't piss or scare you off with my comment @30, but I couldn't resist the opening.

Okay--Back to Dan and this week's Savage Love: Hard Work.

67
Lava @47: "Isn't maintenance sex similar to sex work."
Whoa. Um, not unless you're the level of sex worker who can choose your clients and has the luxury of rejecting anyone you're not attracted to. You're attracted to your partner, right? Fucking someone you want to fuck when you don't want to fuck them isn't the same as fucking someone you'd never want to fuck unless they were paying you.
68
The act is still the same Fan. Sex when one doesn't want it, doesn't feel it.
Don't know about you, maybe it's just a married with kids things, I just remember in my marriage, some sex felt like I was with a stranger. Connection broken.
69
Ms Phile - A golf clap for your self-knowledge. You are welcome to use me as an example; I haven't played bridge for amusement in several years.

*****

Mx Wanna - It isn't really all that okay around here for one to view sex work as in the FTWL category. Mr Savage has already added Must Have Used Pot to his list of qualifications for presidential candidates (I could wonder if her taking a strongly anti-pot stand would knock Mr Miller off the Hillary Train, but I won't), and one can detect indications that, even if he doesn't at some point add Must Have Patronized Sex Workers or perhaps Must Have Been a Sex Worker to that list of qualifications, he'd strongly like to do so.

*****

Ms Fan - Strictly as a tangent, I'm interested in your selection of phrasing in the last sentence, choosing "never want" over "want never" (and I do hope Ms Cute chimes in on this one). It just made me realize what a strong emphasis falls on the second word; one might even suspect that everyone you've ever boinked has been someone you've wanted to boink. I've had vastly less experience than you, but have more than once assented to a request from someone in the "never want" category (as in, someone I'd never choose) but not the "want never" category.

70
For a while I've been reading, and commenting in, a forum for male escorts and the people (mainly but not exclusively men) who hire them, or consider and/or fantasise about doing so. There are a lot of extremely savvy escorts there who share their views on how the business can operate, how they have strict boundaries about what they will do, the perils of falling in love with an escort (and how both clients and escorts can pick the signs), how they can vet their clients and so on.

The going rate in the US is $200-$300 for an hour, and starting at about $1,000 for an overnight, although $1,500 is not uncommon, so without knowing what he wanted for the money, $3,000 is a hell of a lot. Maybe he has no idea of the going rate, maybe be wants an entire weekend. The LW really has to find out what the expectations are and decide if he wants to do that. As others have said, no matter what is expected, the LW absolutely has to decide what he will do, the hirer doesn't own him: he needs to make that crystal clear.

If the LW decides to go ahead with this he could find it useful to check sites like Rentmen.com to get a feel for how they work, and for what the market is like in his city. All the tips about safety are also important!
71
On another side note, I hope Ms Hopkins isn't ill, or that, if she is, she at least has someone happy to descend upon her with soup and gin rummy.
72
Lava @68: Aw, that sounds pretty rotten :(

Venn @69 (you got the magic number this week): I never considered phrasing it as "someone you'd want never to fuck" -- which I agree is much stronger; it's active revulsion rather than absence of attraction. I believe sex workers should and do exercise their right to turn down clients they would want never to fuck. If pimps are denying sex workers their right to refuse service, that is a serious problem -- a problem which legalisation could go some way towards redressing.

As for me personally, have I ever engaged in a "pity lay" or shagged someone whilst drunk whom I wouldn't have sober? I can't say never, but you are correct that my preferred modus operandi is to only fuck people I actively desire[1]. Whether that desire stems from looks, personality or, most accurately, a combination of both. If you're[2] routinely shagging people you don't even fancy, and there's no payment involved, my suspicion would be that there are self-esteem issues or past abuse involved. I'd definitely be examining the motivation for fucking people you don't want to fuck, if said behaviour pattern persisted past, say, one's mid-twenties.

[1] Quitting drinking has helped.
[2] Generic "you", not Venn "you".
73
I just returned from Paris, where I attended a large exhibition called Splendour and Misery. Pictures of Prostitution, 1850–1910, at the Musée D’Orsay. One of the first sections of the exhibit that I found to be the most poignant was called Ambiguity. Walking the streets in public spaces, which illustrated the fact that without the welfare safety net we now have*, prostitution was where many tacitly turned for survival. From the exhibition catalogue:

‘In the second half of the 19th century, respectable women, occasional, illegal, and officially registered prostitutes were virtually indistinguishable from each other when they mingled in public places. An air of ambiguity prevailed during daylight hours, when all forms of overt soliciting were prohibited. This lack of differentiation made it difficult to define what constituted prostitution and to pinpoint its boundaries.

In working-class circles, women who had modest jobs—such as manual workers, milliners, florists or laundresses—were too poorly paid to afford decent accommodation or feed themselves adequately, especially if they had a family to support. Some therefore occasionally resorted to prostitution to supplement their earnings. The way in which passers-by turn to stare at Dagnan-Bouveret’s Laundress seems to suggest that they sense the young woman’s sexual availability.

However, streetwalkers blended into the crowd, detectable only by their words, actions (a skirt lifted to reveal a glimpse of ankle boot), contrived poses or eloquent expressions (a hint of a smile, a furtive or meaningful look) as depicted in the works of Boldini and Valtat. These fluid, intangible identities fascinated artists, who recreated the ambiguous climate of modern Paris in works where their contemporaries recognised the variously encoded allusions to the world of prostitution.’


The above text was also placed on the wall of the exhibit beside this painting called The Shop Girl by James Thissot. This pretty painting with the lovely subject belies the economics of exploitation that was hiding in plain sight.

Today, as modern cities around the world become more and more unaffordable for the working classes, we could be seeing more and more desperate acts of prostitution. Of course as morals have loosened, and casual sexual activity has become more freely available, those who wish to take advantage of their assets will have stiff competition from those who give it away. They will need to offer something special—exceptional beauty—or else cater to the undesirable.

Until the United States and other countries reject the barbarous Gilded Age economic ideology they have embraced and nurtured these last 35 years, until they begin to rebuild their safety net institutions, there will be more people like LW1 who’s consciences struggle as they are forced to supplement their meagre earnings.

*Safety net not available in the US
74
I'm a little concerned with the potential rent boy's statement that he's done other, more humiliating things for money.
75
If you've worked in the service industry, you've likely been treated like shit for very little money. If you are the right age, weight, and race, you can likely get paid a lot more for sex work.

And I'm not sure why people feel it's appropriate to comment about how they would never do that on a thread where someone is considering it. They've likely thought about the cons already. And you wouldn't do that to any other job. Literally no one asked you.
76
Lava [61] - I hear that sucking on ice cubes helps.

CMD [63] - It's ok if being a sex worker is not your thing, you are indeed with the overwhelming majority.
Are you saying that you'd like sex work? As a single or do you think you'd have energy to please a partner too? I'm posting because my reasons may be different from others. I don't think I've heard this risk described before, that you can get out of the habit of demanding the sexual attention needed to make free sex satisfying. And I think that sex work might work well for me if I was in love with with another sex worker, like in Marie and Jack: A Hardcore Love story. We'd both share sex interests, and accept that the more experimental stuff happened at work while the home sex was more vanilla. So if I were committed to a nice pro I'd still consider it a possibility. Or if I disliked having a committed partner, maybe.

I would still argue that there are people who cook for a living and also at home. I know some of them in person, we meet some times and everyone brings something they made
But do you know if they cook for themselves, or for their partner regularly? The typical cook's solution is to mostly eat at work.

Venn - No golf fap because of my equipment I suppose. Woe is me. I think a year of mandatory sex service, like a year of mandatory military service in Israel, would be a pretty interesting social experiment. I suppose every citizen would get some sex work vouchers for the federal pros, and it would be kinda cool to be able to get some safe regulated sex service in a pinch. I could also see sex assault being reported and enforced more if decent service was more widely expected.

SecretAgent - No one asked for your opinion either. Who made you god of the comment thread that you feel like you can scold me for listing some cons? Oh yeah self appointed. If you want to suck your own dick or lick your own twat in public, you're going to look like an idiot. I'm not stopping you from posting your great experience of providing sex work, feel free.
77
GF @73
They will need to offer something special—exceptional beauty—or else cater to the undesirable.

The market of undesirables is huge. Then there are those who are not undesirable per se but who for whatever reason are not interested in relationships or in the work needed to get someone to have sex with them without paying for it. Commercial sex is the easy solution in that case.
78
Ms. 20-something with the conservative boyfriend: Watch out! Letting him get a feel for the erogenous wonders of the anus could open a whole new world for the boy. He might even like it so much that he'll be willing to share. So be prepared with that bottle of lube and scrupulous personal hygiene and you never know what wonders might come your way.
79
I think the real question is does a guy who is conservative deserve finger up his ass? When you bust out the un-threatening bottle of lube ask him what he thinks of Planned Parenthood, finger gently if he is positive, if not give him the fist abruptly.
80
Thanks Philo. I'll temember that. Woke to overcast sky and light rain. The day might go better.
Has anyone looked at what goes into lubes, I imagine it's a lot of long words that mean this could be poison I'm putting into my body in the name of pleasure.
Yes condoms have to be accounted for. This LW has no use for condoms here, so I suggest she just have a jar of coconut oil near the bed. And maybe surprise him one night, before he asks.
81
Remember
82
University of Minnesota, Mankato*
83
Rotten Fan? Such a British word. Guess it was rotten in parts. My marriage. Finally rotted the floor away and we both fell thru.
Thirty yrs and rearing multiple children had its moments of hell.

Now though, he's far far away and I have these five young adults who call me mumsie. One of them does anyway. The one that's just gone to the Northern Territory, to help built houses in an Aboriginal Community. His English backpacker artist gf, has gone with him.
84
I'm surprised by the comments (including from Mike Crawford in the column itself) saying that $3000 is much higher than the going rate and is therefore a red flag that the client wants something outrageous or is lying.

The going rate is for people who are already sex workers and have experience. The rate to tempt someone into sex work is naturally going to be much higher. The client doesn't want a random sex worker to get him off; the client wants this particular person, who isn't a sex worker currently.

In Indecent Proposal, I think Robert Redford offered Demi Moore a million dollars to sleep with him. With that as the comparison, $3000 would be quite a good deal for the client.

That said, I would advise SOTEMPTED to get some kind of references -- someone else the client has slept with. And/or bring a tough friend to wait outside and make sure everything goes smoothly.
85
Phile - for someone that is not a sex worker, you sure have lots of thoughts and feelings about yourself as one. And no, I'm not god(dess) of the comment threads. But I can sure scold you if I feel like it for shitty, pointless, and not that interesting navel-gazing. What is for you a rather dull thought exercise is real life for other people, and I personally find your inanity distracting from what was an interesting discussion of the letter writers actual concerns. You know, the reason for this thread. But I am feeling rather feisty today so feel free to disregard. Far be it for me to propose that people not be assholes on the Internet.
86
Then this young man must be very pretty Erica. Some random from the Internet wants to pay that sort of money.
It's not work to go into if one sees it as some lesser than. Clear transaction occurs, don't see the anguish is of much use. Except if this is dangerous. The LW needs to check this guy out, see if the situation is safe.
Then make a decision.
87
SecretAgent - Yeah this is a real guy writing in, considering a path with real physical and mental risks. You're venting to a real person who has no idea who the fuck you are.

But I can sure scold you if I feel like it
You're right. You're free to run up to any stranger that you want and tell them to shut up, or their politics are wrong, or just that they are wearing an ugly shirt. I'm free to think you're creepy. The rest of the thread can be your safe space. Have a nice weekend.
88
Ms Fan - I probably have the lowest drive here; I suspect that makes a difference. You're also probably vastly more attractive than I am, and I apologize if that underestimates you.

*****

My thanks to Lord Gran- um, Ms Erica, for reminding us that we don't know the circumstances of the person making the offer. These things are relative. I think Mr Savage is often a good deal too flippant about the financial effects on those the clients support.

*****

Ms Phile - A quarter of a point for a novel idea. It would do vastly more harm than good under most plausible means of implementation, but practicality is for the Miss Mackays of the world.

It would be selfhateflattery for anyone here to feel pointedly excluded from the golf fap. Remember, I speak as someone immune even to the pairing of Mr Ophian and Mr Rhone (which reminds me to compliment the board on the great reduction in egregious flirtation of late). As it's my concept, I'm considering attaching an athletic context. I acknowledge, though, that that might be largely because I'm due for one of my spells of feeling terribly sorry for poor Stephane Lambiel.
89
@75: Some people just aren't comfortable doing sex work, and the LW may be one of them, given his apparently distressed tone. Those saying "I wouldn't" may intend to offer a bit of empathy if that's the case, a little assurance that it's okay if he's not comfortable taking the plunge.

Dan comes across as a sort of pushy free love type sometimes. "Don't be so uptight man, just let go of your sex-negativity that our repressed culture has instilled." Sometimes a person has boundaries and needs to draw a line for their own sake. Dan's response glossed over potential regrets and didn't really address that sex work may just not be for the LW.

@26: If SOTEMPTED can't afford travel, he's unlikely to be able to line up a job before moving, and he can't exactly afford to move first and live on his nonexistent savings while finding new employment. It's also tough to qualify for a new lease without proof (paycheck stubs) of decent income, which SOTEMPTED probably doesn't have. Where's he going to live? Moving right away may break his current lease--which he probably cannot afford to do. And moving itself is expensive, because you have to rent a truck for your stuff.

As someone also in dire financial straits, your comment comes across as ignorant and insensitive. If the solution were that easy, it probably would have occurred to him. The devil is in the details, and the poor remain so because the situation is often more complicated than those offering glib suggestions appreciate.
90
@8, @15, @79: Conservative doesn't necessarily mean politically conservative. Of a person, it can mean "reserved, unadventurous, prudent, cautious" etc.
91
Venn @ 69
Some of Mr. Savage practices and endorsements I do accept, others I don’t.
I think that legalizing sex work is inevitable and personally for it. Mr. Savage is helping by bringing up the subject and seems to also support of the idea.
Future presidential candidates may or may not have to deal with those issues. I may be qualified though, read my response to philo
92
Philo @ 76
Thanks for reminding me. What do you know? At some point in my life I was indeed a “registered sex worker.”
I was in my 20’s, living in another country where some male friends, also foreigners, said you can register at that “office” and who knows what may happen.
After being allowed in by a polite young man I was instructed to sit by a carved wood screen. The yakuza guy I couldn’t see on the other side said to call every day by 3 pm.
The idea was that older Japanese women are anxious to fuck young western man. I heard stories. Someone I actually knew told me he was approached by one on a train, “But she was too ugly.”
And foreign women I knew who worked as hostesses- many of them did, it was a very good money at the time- had lots of opportunities. Taken or not.
And just to keep it clear, some gaijin men and women still befriended Japanese men and women for nothing but sheer friendliness, love etc.

Anyway…After some very exciting week or two in which I called every day at 2:45 promptly I realized that maybe this fantasy should better stay where it belongs.

And what do you know part two: Some, not many, yet some people assume that if I’m going out as a woman I must be in the sex industry.
Guess I’m double qualified now.

And just so you know: some times cooks do cook for themselves and/or for their so’s.

93
@68 LavaGirl: Wow. I don't have children, but can still relate to having sex I really didn't want at the time with the stranger I was once married to.
94
@91 CMDwannabe: Under any circumstances, I'd sure hate to have Donald Trump get the White House nod in 2016, with or without the legalization of sex work.
I can see your point and Dan's, though: legalization of sex work can help put an end to unsafe sex-trafficking.
95
I think the déjà vu girl
In the add needs a bigger bra. Don't mothers help their daughters pick bras anymore.
96
CMD @92: Thanks for sharing your story, very interesting.

Lava @95: Haha. I don't see that ad now, but of course it was the one staring me in the face last week when I was posting about my insecurities about my breasts. Of course. My theory is that she just hasn't replaced her bras post-boob job yet. Meow.
97
Venn @88: Eye of the beholder, surely. I guarantee you're vastly more attractive to gay men than I could ever be. Drive is an interesting aspect. I was thinking people with extra-high drives would be more likely to engage in sex with people they don't necessarily find attractive -- as Bachman Turner Overdrive sang in the 70s, "Any loving is good loving, so I took what I could get" -- but I can see how a low-drive person could be inclined to have sex with a person they liked but didn't desire. But that's low desire for sex itself, not pickiness as to partners, which is a different matter.
99
Ms Fan - I was thinking of a more current example. You may have seen Wolf Hall, which aired over here this past spring. Charity Wakefield managed to make the most interesting Mary Boleyn I can recall, and I particularly remember her, "Don't ask; don't get," when Mary's offer to Cromwell is declined. Even when the machinery was in motion, it almost always took me far too long to get around to asking. (Now I shall have to wonder whether Ms Wakefield would have been capable of playing a Marianne Dashwood who, in keeping with the book, didn't fall in lover with her husband before the wedding. Bother.)
100
Mx Wanna - I've no quarrels with you here, unless you approve of "rinsing". I do think that Mr Savage's model, if gamed out to its logical conclusion, would price itself out of existence. His high holy sex workers, if they didn't become like the party elite in 1984, would at least end up living the life of Romney on spectacular salaries while eventually becoming pickier and pickier about which clientele to accept (after already receiving a large retainer fee just to consider them), ending up with a clientele having to work far harder and pay far more for far less sex than ever happened as a result of dating. Now I don't grudge anyone who wants it to become a seller's market - just, please, with limits.
101
As it should be Venn.
Sex work stops any nation from blowing up. It's been around for how long? Jesus' pal was one. He may have tried to cover it with some do good banter.
I hold it as a profession in high esteem.
Fan, I hope you don't let these boys bang on about your breasts? Be proud woman.
Woke to good soak into the grass rain. Two days ago it was so hot, I was waiting to see the camels come over the hill.
102
So the cat broke his leg at the beginning of the week and the grandchild has got a green stick fracture( say what?) at the othe end of the week.
And I saw a falling star tonight.
103
Ms Lava - I've admiration for practitioners who raise it to an art form, but respectfully submit that turning sex work into dating with a celebrated pay scale might not be a great social improvement.
104
I wonder if Tinder has hit sex workers' profits? As Henny Youngman (I think it was) joked, you don't pay a prostitute for sex, you pay her to go away afterwards. Given that it's so easy to order up no-strings casual sex for free on the internet these days, have sex workers had to alter their business practices?