Savage Love

Roughly Speaking

Comments

1
I don't know why, but I don't get stubble (that I can tell, anyway and none of my partners have ever mentioned a stubble) when pubic hair grows back after waxing. Whereas I definitely do get stubble when hair grows back after shaving. Maybe my experience is unique or maybe I can't tell and I've been stubbly without knowing it. The gf should try Brazilian waxing if she wants that groomed or hairless look/feel and see what happens. But waxing is expensive and requires upkeep. It might be worthwhile to see how she feels about growing the hair out.
2
I don't get stubble with waxing either. It grows back very slowly and the hairs are very fine. It's nothing like shaving. Shaving is such a hassle to keep up - it's much easier to get it waxed every six-seven weeks, although it is expensive where I live to go to somewhere really good and it does hurt like fuck. But the result is wonderfully smooth and lasts well. I get all my pubic hair removed every time.
3
She shaves it close to the labia, which is right where my cock is going in and out!


- my italics, my exclamation mark.
I love Savage Love because something Dan says or something a commenter says is bound to make me laugh. However, this is the first time that a letter writer has caused me to lose it.
4
Wooden chopsticks grabbing your cock, LW. Not sure that's in the manual.
You should try a prickly face around your pussy, now that hurts.
5
@2 Busy Quilting: It's true, I only need to wax every 6-7 weeks to stay smooth, and after years of waxing, it doesn't even hurt that much and there's less hair to deal with even if I don't wax regularly. Maybe SCRAPE would be willing to help with the expense if he likes the look/feel of a bare or almost-bare pussy. I wonder how much SCRAPE's gf is shaving for herself--because she likes the look or feel--and how much she's shaving because she thinks it's what good grooming consists of, or because she thinks that SCRAPE wants to see/feel her bare.

I've had plenty of encounters with men who have shaved the day or two before and it's really unpleasant. I'd rather a man just trim away the excess and give me a clean work area for blow jobs, but keep things soft.
6
Nobody gets stubble after waxing, and the reason is simple. Waxing pulls out your entire hair by the root. When it grows back, the thin, fine tip of the hair appears first. When you shave, you slice it off at the base, where it's strongest. So it's thick, strong and sharp, the opposite of a new baby hair.
7
Waxing doesn’t cause stubble. Shaving does.

Shaving slices trough the middle of a nice thick mature hair leaving sharp edges. When these sharp edges poke just a little past the surface of the skin they are supported by the follicle and scrape unyielding across a lover’s mucous membranes. And all the hairs are present and sharp at the same time.

Waxing yanks the hairs out by the roots. The hairs don’t grow back at the same time. As they grow back, they stick a thin end out of the follicle which is then subject to wear. Wear causes hairs to be thinner at the ends than at the base. The growback with waxing is thin and wispy, gradually thickening as all the hairs grow in, but stays soft.

So yeah, either wax or let it grow. Stubble is just the worst.

Note: bush is becoming trendy again!
8
So men should really wax their faces last comment@6?
9
Full beard for men, full bush for both. Like a Sikh guy appearing in 70s-era Joy of Sex. Now we're talking!
10
@4: You may be on to something there. Maybe SCRAPE shouid indulge in a little oral after a few days without a shave. When she complains, tell her, "Oh yeah, huh. Sorry about that. Stubble hurts, doesn't it? Speaking of which, YOUR stubble hurts my dick."

Kidding aside, Scrape, did you actually tell her it hurts? Straight out and simple? You said you "brought it up once and tried to gently suggest a waxing or letting the hair grow back." She probably thinks your suggestion about waxing was for aesthetic reasons, for which it's perfectly natural to push back, because that shit hurts to yank out.

Stop beating around the bush, and tell her that you are in actual physical pain.
11
I'm a little confused as to how "forced sex fantasy" means something different from "rape fantasy." I thought "forced sex" was the literal definition of rape.
12
@11 ...Now that I think of it, maybe Educated Slut is basing this on the idea that rape=/=sex (a doctrine that seems to be common among feminists these days, and makes me grind my teeth despite identifying as a feminist myself).
13
I saw what you did there, Avast. Well played.
14
Hey, Late Bloomer, good to see you here. I just figured out that that car I got was a real lemon. I hope things are better for you.
15
Aw, nuts. I'm sorry to hear that, nocute. It sounded so promising when you drove it off the lot.
16
nocutename @14,

So sorry! So that was what, nine months? Once the NRE started to fade there was nothing left? Crap.

Hugs!
17
(That comment @16 sounds unpleasant when I reread it but was written with feelings of great empathy. If it sounds unpleasant to you too, please substitute a more empathetic-sounding one. But leave in the hugs.)
18
I cannot think of a way in which she can get the experience she desires while still maintaining a safe dynamic.

How do these delicate flowers end up with women who like it rough? This is a cruel and spiteful universe.

Dude, it's just imaginary play. If 9 year olds can pull off epic nerf gun battles without any casualties, surely you can figure out how safely pretend-rape your woman.

I can't imagine she'd complain too much if you got the ball rolling one day and picked her up, slung her over your shoulder, pulled her skirt up and panties down, gave her ass a hard slap, carried her to the bedroom, tossed her on the bed, and proceeded to use her, thoroughly, according to your every primal whim.

And wouldn't it be fun to have her signal that she's in the mood by putting on an outfit that really panders to your cock's tastes? Sounds fun to me. To be frank, I'd like to fuck your fiancée.

But I digress. Your mission - less thinking, more "raping".
19
Yes milkshake @9. Full bush for both.
A stubble on a guy, the five o'clock shadow, is attractive.. Just not between the legs. A full beard, no. It's a dilemma.
Avast@10, bit extreme, beating the poor woman. Use his words first.
20
Too true Sean; a safe dynamic, no man ever worried about maintaining such around me. I've been robbed.
21
What is with the ass slapping, and the picking up and throwing over the shoulder. Can see right at that moment he might put his back out. Great. That's more like a cave man fantasy.
Fine if he can carry her, just leave the ass slapping out.
Really LW, don't be so precious here. If she wants a bit of rough forceful
sex, just tune into your inner rough and find the moves.


22
Thanks, Alison and LateBloomer.
I appreciate it. Alison, your message was just fine.
23
Seriously, SCRAPE, there are two of you having sex, right? If something was happening that she found painful, wouldn't she say something to get you to stop doing it? Why do you feel as though you don't have the same entitlement there? As Dan says, it's not even a question of preference except inasmuch as you prefer your junk not get scraped raw.

(Continuing on to the absurd conclusion: or else she needs to find a guy whose phallus is not made of flesh to rub up against. I'm assuming that she does like having your penis going in and out of her and isn't trying to send you some kind of bizarre signal.)
24
LavaGirl: you need a black guy with more than five-o;clock shadow eating your pussy, then. Speaking only for myself, I've had guys actually rub my facial hair on their balls during blow jobs because the texture isn't prickly, and soft and furry seems to play well on genital bits. Really, the only time I haven't felt weird about having 4b on my scalp and face. It seems to be the only time when I let white people touch my hair without express permission, really.
25
@3 saxfanatic : Yeah I know, huh? Yeee-ouch!
@4 LavaGirl: Ya got that right! and @8: Ha ha ha! Good one!
Who agrees that Paul Ryan looks like even more like a dope on a rope with that unshaven mug?
I know I wouldn't want to sleep with a scrub brush.
Seriously, SCRAPE--tell her it hurts. She needs to know.
26
LavaGirl: By the way, thank you for your late comment from last week's SL: Hard Work.
See my comment @173.
27
SCRAPE: You're seriously jumping to "philosophical implications" as a reason your girlfriend might want to avoid an infamously painful method of personal grooming? When your whole problem is that her personal grooming choices are causing you pain? I wouldn't want to go out of my way for you either.

28
After a few dates, my BF made one request, don't shave my shaft---it causes a lot of uncomfortable irritation for him. I stopped and we f**k like rabbits ever since.
29
No worries G.
Absurdist1968@24. I'm guessing you're not up for it? Pity.
30
Dan is wrong, wrong, wrong! You don't get stubble after waxing. Stubble results from the hair being cut. When waxed, hair grows back intact (and a lot thinner and weaker, the more you wax it). It's no sharper than the hairs on your arms.

Waxing is, however, painful as fuck. Maybe SCRAPE could ask his girlfriend to shave on the day they have sex, so they can shag away before the stubble grows back. Or he could buy his girlfriend a voucher for laser hair removal for Xmas, as a permanent solution to this problem.
31
BiDan@30 has the easy solution, but girlfriend doesn't always have to do the shaving, I enjoy taking the razor to my honey's bush, it's fun foreplay for both of us.
32
The dismissive tenor of the comments about SEAN wanting to be thoughtful about acting out his gf's rape fantasy are seriously misguided ("delicate flower," etc). His approach is praiseworthy, and he should not be dismissed as being somehow less manly for being careful about such a charged fantasy that is often weighted with risk (and history) for participants.
33
BiDanFan, I left a few comments for you over at last week's "Hard Work" column; don't know if you've been back.

34
@11/12 - I think the main reason for the differentiation is because some people confuse "rape fantasy" with actual rape. I've known plenty of guys who are confused about why a woman would want to be raped when rape fantasies are brought up, not realizing that the two are not quite the same. I even read an article years ago that was written by a woman who expressed rape fantasies to her boyfriend, but due to poor planning and a severe lack of communication (they didn't even talk about safe words), she ended up getting actually raped by her boyfriend because he thought he was doing what she wanted - forcing her to have sex despite her protests and fighting back.

I think taking the word "rape" out of the fantasy would help dispel any preconceived notions about what is meant by a rape fantasy. Everyone has their own definition of rape, so saying "rape fantasy" immediately forms an idea, depending on that definition, of what it would be like. "Forced sex" is a little more ambiguous, so it would hopefully promote questions about what it would entail, rather than people assuming "well I know what rape is, so I guess what she wants is a stranger dragging her into an alley at night."
35
@32: There are always some non-sex positive trashy persons and trolls that lurk around here. They want to get laid but not worry about all those icky feelings.
36
Using clippers rather than a razor will allow the hair to grow back in much more comfortably. When I'm not waxing, clippers are my go-to, not only for his comfort, but for mine. I don't like being stabbed by my own junk either!
37
@30: " When waxed, hair grows back intact (and a lot thinner and weaker, the more you wax it). "

There any fact behind that belief? Sounds like one of those old tales that has nothing but supporting anecdotes...
38
Dr Sean - Isn't it part of the attraction for some? Recall how you and Ms Erica were on the same side about men whose extramarital wanderings had the full approval of their wives and how their presenting that permission made Ms Erica go YUK! while she swooned over your Man-of-the-Moment-Whose-Wife-Knew-What-He-Was-Like-When-She-Married-Him character (which was what carried the two of you to #3 in the Power Couple rankings).

Some people are best off with a partner whose preferences immediately align with all their own. Then there's the staple of the romantic novel - the man like your character who is drawn to the proud, independent woman whom he dominates and forces to crave him. We even see something like this in Mansfield Park, in which Henry Crawford's desire to make Fanny Price like him springs from her giving him disapproving looks throughout the dinner party at the Parsonage (possible hints of the Fifty Shades?). Or there's a variation in the conversation between Emma and Frank Churchill, after Emma feels sorry for the former Miss Campbell ("...the misery of having a very particular friend always at hand, to do everything better than one does one's self.") and Frank agrees with Emma on Jane Fairfax's reserve:

(FC): "There is safety in reserve, but no attraction. One cannot love a reserved person."
(EW): "Not till the reserve ceases towards one's self; and then the attraction may be the greater."

(what a neat method of hiding the truth in plain sight and having someone stumble over it while remaining clueless)

Or there's the example from the recent daily letter from the woman with the bisexual husband who thought they were so happy. The third of the three possibilities I could have argued was that she wasn't careful and considerate of or indifferent about his preference for men but intrigued and attracted by it, and that she'd thought her magic woman parts had boinked any vestige of attraction to males into submission and clean out of him.
39
I'd like to ask the assembled company to fill in a blank, only please don't if you recognize the source:

The US Supreme Court's decision in favour of marriage equality was an inspiring [blank] moment.
40
how can I suggest that maybe there are other solutions?

Before you start proposing solutions, you need lovingly, delicately, and tactfully loop her in the problem. Maybe something like "Sweetie pie, what's with the stubble? It feels like I'm either fucking a cactus or your twat is trying to bite my dick off."
41
Mr. Venn, I happily date men (well, now, only one man, plus my husband) whose partners approve of them dating others. That's not "yuk" to me.

The question is whether the man presents it as "my generous wife allows me out on a leash, and we'll have to follow the rules she sets for us" or as "this is who I am, I set my own rules, and my wife understood that when we married."
42
@nocutename: I don't know anyone, seandr excluded, who wasn't pretty miserable during the middle school years.

(Sorry, had to respond to this from last week.) I said I wasn't bullied, not that I wasn't miserable. One could fairly summarize my entire life as one big desperate effort to distract myself from misery.
43
Ms Erica - My memory was basically accurate. I thought I presented someone's leading with the Permission Slip as being the problem adequately.

It's a shame that those of us with histories don't have indices of all our posts for easy and accurate referrals.
44
Ms Cute - So sorry. I think you deserve a special consideration, but I'm not sure from your post whether the relationship just conked out or whether it was the potential Msr Cute who proved defective. As I have different thoughts for each case, I shall guess which to send you.
45
seandr@40 Ha!
46
...or given the season, maybe I should say, "Ho, ho ho!"
47
vennominon@43 "It's a shame that those of us with histories don't have indices of all our posts for easy and accurate referrals. You do...just double-click on the user name. (Or was that said tongue-in-cheek?)
48
Undead@35. And these lurkers, you looking at me? I'm happy to be a troll for a day, non sex positive trashy label, that hurts. Aren't you even a friendly person round xmas? Being in your head must be hard.
49
I agree with @32. I think SEAN was seeking some general guidance about what a "rape" / consensual non-consent scene entails, and perhaps some helpful suggestions about how these scenes are initiated and unfold, and maybe points that need to be thought about or negotiated.

I think things that they might want to talk about include: (1) what signals both people are comfortable starting this scene, (2) how much force is acceptable to use, (3) what level of resistance is acceptable, (4) are any acts sexual or otherwise out of bounds, (5) are there acts sexual or otherwise that SEAN's girlfriends wants to incorporate, and (5) what signals the end of the scene. Perhaps others can add to this list.
50
@SublimeAfterglow: If I was harsh, it's because I'm jealous.

I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression there's been no shortage of negotiation, communication, hand wringing, soul searching, letter writing, calls to mom, group hugs, etc. up to this point. He's got the stop words down pat. What he needs is a few go words.
51
My thoughts SA@49 is that the woman has had time to generate some juices for the pretend forced sex, PFS. No sex is any fun when a woman is dry.
52
Gee Sean, you think mom's in on it too?
53
Nocute @33: I'll head there now. Thanks!
54
@Thedudeski: The dismissive tenor

I was aiming for something more like shoving your little brother off the high dive after he'd been standing up there for 10 minutes fretting.
55
@51...Plan ahead, a little lube will solve that problem.
56
Even better than waxing is LASER, if you can afford it - similar results but less painful and lasts a lot longer. If SCRAPE can, he could offer to pay for it. But first he needs to be clear with her about why he's asking.

@49: That's a good start.
57
Ayn @37: Yes, it is absolutely true. I've been waxing my underarms (I can tolerate the pain there) for a decade and there is hardly any hair left at all. And I used to have thick, dark hair there. Now it's so thin and wispy it's barely noticeable.

I shave, and while I make every effort to shave on the day I will be getting sex it's not always possible. Oddly, no one has ever complained about stubble. Not saying SCRAPE's complaint isn't valid; maybe his girlfriend's pubes are particularly prickly, he's particularly sensitive, or my partners have been particularly polite!

Re "rape" vs "forced sex." If the woman (or man -- we'll call them the Submissive Partner or SP) wants someone to take them forcibly, then it's not rape. If they have asked their partner to do this, then they have enthusiastically consented to pretend to resist what they want that person -- and specifically that person -- to do to them. If this is something the SP wants, then I don't think the issue Lava raises @51 will be a problem.

Related Story Time: One of my partners said that his primary wanted to experience a "gang rape" fantasy. They planned it and set it up with a kidnapping element. When it came down to business, my friend said he was glad one of the "gang" was a woman with a strap-on, because none of the guys could get it up. This may be a problem SEAN may want to consider.
58
Trigger warning; pretend forced sex scenario.
Ok. Seeing the LW, who is a man, can't think how to do the PFS, I'll give it a go.
Forget organizing a time before hand, where's the fun in that. Surprise attack will bring best results.
The LW could ask his woman how she'd like it to play, and take her ideas on board.
All they need to decide before hand, is what the safe word is.
I'd suggest , while she's asleep, cuff her wrists to the bed posts. She wakes, frightened because a man is sitting on her, lightly, holding her down after cuffing her to the bed. He tells her she won't be hurt if she doesn't scream. Maybe even put a blindfold on her so
She can't recognize him. He could be wearing a balaclava at this point.
Personally, just to be sure the juices were good, I'd like a bit of aural here.
So, while holding her legs down he puts his mouth to her pussy.
Then, bob's your uncle.
59
Make that consensual forced sex, CFS.
60
SCRAPE.
Gee, no one has mentioned Carson's Magic Shave Powder yet!

The issues are separate, Scrape's partner wants to maintain her own chosen pubic 'look.' Scrape is having stubble trouble. This might be solvable by scheduling.

My face is pretty damn' smooth after shaving, just not the next day. If she wants to stay bare, she might want to time her shaving sessions and her sleepovers to match.

SCRAPE could offer to pay for waxing, or learn to do it himself. Maybe a gift certificate?

The various PC squirmings around hair need not even get triggered in the discussion.
61
@venn: Some people are best off with a partner whose preferences immediately align with all their own. Then there's the staple of the romantic novel...

Those misalignments are fertile soil for story lines and drama, aren't they? and no doubt some people are attracted to relationships that will generate drama. This explains almost too much. (See previous remark vis-a-vis distraction from misery.)

#3 in the Power Couple rankings

Ah, those were heady times. I'd hate to think that's where we topped out.
62
The pubic hair thing is legit. I don't like a fully bare look but sometimes, like if I'm going to be wearing a swimming suit, I'll trim it short. I used to use a razor and my hair would get super prickly, which I hated. A few years ago I used my boyfriend's electric trimmer (with his permission!) on the shortest setting because I was in a hurry and voila-- short hair that isn't prickly! Maybe LW3's gf could try that and then everyone can win!
63
@#38, venn: Who were numbers 1 & 2?
64
@Seandr. When I read SEAN's letter, it seems to me that he was a vanilla guy whose girlfriend had an interest in incorporating some JV kink ("rougher sex" and "light bondage") into their sex life, an interest that SEAN fulfilled. But that does make SEAN or his girlfriend particularly experienced or knowledgeable kinksters, and now his girlfriend would like to incorporate some varsity-level kink, which SEAN is up for, he just needs a certain amount of guidance. So contrary to your view, I don't think there's been any negotiation, let alone hand wringing or soul searching.

To my list above @49, I would add: (7) talk about what they do if someone uses their safe word, and (8) discuss what kind of aftercare they each might need when the scene ends.
65
SublimeAfterglow @49/64, good tips. I also like the ones at the link Dan suggested: https://slutlessons.wordpress.com/2014/0…

Personally, I think it's a good idea for first-timers to start the scene with the victim bound or mostly bound. The victim could be "asleep" while the antagonist secures the victim, maybe with leather cuffs which are unlikely to lead to injury.

That way the victim can fight back with all their strength, without things getting out of hand and either party getting injured accidentally.
66
Aren't my posts showing up in your town Erica.
67
Aftercare? SA@65.
High fives I'd suggest.
68
Let the hair grow. I love it.
69
@48: Lava, I wasn't speaking to you or about you, there's no need to get punchy.
70
I'm seriously confused why it is that you keep trying to pick fights when I've never said anything less than kind to you.
71
Ciods @63 -- I'm guessing one of them was Ophian and Lolorhone.
72
Mydriasis and Hunter78?

....just kidding.
73
@72: No shipping from the peanut gallery! :o
74
@EricaP: That way the victim can fight back with all their strength

Damn. That's intense.
75
Re@58. I meant oral sex, not ear sex.
Undead@70. I'm no detective, I did play a bit around with LWs intent. I assumed I was included in your less than friendly post@ 35. Now I realize you meant Sean( not SEAN).
That he was the lurker, the troll, the sex negative trashy person who can't get laid because it's too messy. I paraphrase.
In that case, my apologies. You were being rude to someone else, not me. But you know, he tries so hard to cover his misery.. I do feel for him.
He won't talk to me any more though, because of past problems. Just another to add to the people in my life I've alienated. Or spoken my truth too. Perhaps too often that's one and the same.
Now I feel miserable, thinking of all the people whose hearts I've broken, egos I've crushed. Perhaps I really should take up sky diving as a pastime.
Something real and exciting. Yes. That's the answer.
Thanks undead. You've helped me see a way out of this.
76
Before a rape fantasy can be closely negotiated beforehand, the word "rape" and both parties' expectations of what it means in the context of a fantasy, and how it works, psychologically need to be carefully mutually defined. I have fantasies that are more "ravishment" or "forced sex that the initially unwilling participant (me) ends up enjoying, even if she's embarrassed by her (my) enjoyment" than violent rape or sex that continues to be against my will all the way through. That distinction is important.
I once agreed to a rape fantasy with a boyfriend, without realizing that I was agreeing to being ambushed, roughed up in a confusing, kind of chaotic way, being gagged too roughly, and otherwise treated in a way that was sort of frightening, and not in that good way.

I'm subby and like some pain and humiliation and that little frisson of fear at the start of things, but if my partner's not interested in actively eliciting my pleasure at some point, I don't find that fun.
I wouldn't call what happened--or started to happen--between me and my boyfriend rape for real; I wasn't really unwilling, as I had agreed in advance and I knew that I could stop it if I really wanted to (and in reality my bf couldn't sustain being a "bad guy" for very long). But it was eye-opening to discover what different things we each had in mind when we both said the phrase "rape fantasy."

Talk this stuff out. Beforehand. Thoroughly.
Great starter list of considerations, Sublime Afterglow.
77
@44: Thanks, Mr. Ven. The relationship didn't just conk out. I'm not sure he would agree with you, but I rather like the idea that the now-ex-Mr.Cute proved defective.
78
Seandr, I'm sorry to hear that you were as miserable as everyone else during middle school; it kind of gave me comfort to think one person escaped intact. But I guess not.
79
@29 LavaGirl: What's to pity? I'm just not interested in dating, period. It has nothing to do with my being hurt at any time in my life (come on--who among us hasn't been hurt, rejected, or disappointed before?) . i like being single, and as long as an overwhelming number of old hags and creeps both younger and older than I am view me in contempt for being single and living by my own rules, I'm gonna hold onto my singleness, dammit, along with my trusty VW, music and equal love of cats for all it's worth.
80
@78 nocutename: Who among us wasn't miserable in middle school? That's a time I'd certainly like to forget altogether. It didn't help that I looked my absolute dorkiest back then.
81
Jesus G. I was talking to absurdist@24, not you! There he was telling me to get with a black man.. a fantasy of mine, and at the same time pointing out his orientation was with the other team.

Lucky I'm putting hair colour in tonight, or I think I'd just have to sit in a corner and cry.
82
@78 nocutename, Part II: I know you were talking to seandr, and not me, though.
83
@81 LavaGirl: Okay--sorry. I guess I misread your comment (@29), and didn't realize you were then commenting to absurdist@24 after responding to me. Actually, I think both you and I could cry in a corner together; I just added root cover two weeks ago--medium auburn. Now half the people in my community think I'm a cougar while the other half thinks I'm trying to be a kid again.
Sending you hugs and VW beeps, Lava. For what it's worth, I just finished watching a 2005 film, Broken Flowers, with Bill Murray as a guy who gets an anonymous letter hinting he may have a 19 year old son. So he takes a cross country trek to locate the past lady loves of his life from way back when.....and....SMACK!
84
@81 LavaGirl (re: my comment @79): By the way, when I said "....an overwhelming number of hags...." I meant---the tight lipped, hard-nosed old hags and busybodies repeatedly getting in my face about who I am and how I'm living my life (think VFW wives and girlfriends)--not you or anyone like you. I've also had a little red wine tonight prior to my previous posts.
85
That's what I need G, a drink..
All good. I have children, they let me know often I'm old( ish). The ish is my add on.
I saw that movie.
Hear the new Star Wars movie is really good. Looking forward to seeing that next week. The 3D version..
News on here and seems the Republican debate was viewed by many many people in the US. I do hope they watched it just for a laugh. I saw three minutes of it on last nites news and thought, if only a meteorite landed on that building right now.
86
Wow, the stars must be aligned in a funny way this week or something. So much drama here, on Facebook and another forum I still use occasionally (LiveJournal, would you believe it?). I own up to my contribution, apologies to everyone who had to read eu-know-who's predictable abuse on the SLLOTD. I kicked the hornet's nest, I admit it; it was deserved but did nothing for the general atmosphere on the board. Perhaps today will be a new day and we can all be nice to each other.

Are CMD and I on the list somewhere? :)
87
Lava @85: Indeed! Shame none of the American gun fanatics are liberals who could have planned a well-deserved rampage and killed all those angry birds with one stone... (For the official record, I kid...)
88
Hi Fan, how you doing? New Day..
No not yet for me. I thought your comments over on slog were spot on.
Is this drama or just pre xmas blues.
My eldest son used to come home for Xmas, so this time of yr is always hard. Stuff comes up.
89
Pre-Xmas blues, I bet you're right. People are on edge and stressed and they can't take it out on the family members causing it, so they lash out at friends and strangers on the internet. Never cared much for this time of year, and my family is in another country so I have the luxury of ignoring it to an extent not many people can. Sending hugs round the world to you!
90
Thanks Fan. You're a honey.
91
@75: "Now I realize you meant Sean( not SEAN).
That he was the lurker, the troll, the sex negative trashy person who can't get laid because it's too messy"

I wasn't speaking of anyone specific (certainly not seandr), just suggesting not to get too angry over Internet people.

I have little concern over calling out someone who I find insincere, so if you think I'm discussing someone here without calling them by name, your guess is probably wrong ;)
93
Ms Fan - I knew I forgot something; I was going to wonder why you did that - sending picnic baskets to Jellystone National Park (home of Yogi), only I decided that was somewhat too soft a comparison, and I got sidetracked before I could select a good one.

*****

Mr Klicious - I meant a super-detailed index; I know one can search people's posts, but it would take too long if one didn't remember the exact post title.

*****

Ms Lava - Well, there are good reasons so many murders occur during holiday seasons. I hope everyone who enters your home is able to leave it as unassisted as (s)he entered.

*****

Dr Sean - Actually, I've been thinking you due to be moved up to #2, as Ms Cute went full [Trigger Warning: 70's reference] Mary MacGregor and didn't decide between Mr Bloomer and Mr Cat when requested to do so, which weakens the ranking with either.

*****

Mr Bloomer - Ms Driasis and Mr Hunter are in a Sartre Award with Ms Fan, whom I commend for being the best fit for that position after several highly likely possibles tilted too strongly against one or the other of them. You are correct that Mr Ophian and Mr Rhone have basically a lock on the top position, not for being MM, but for flirting in French without coming across as stereotypically insular Brits. That also got them the spots sharing the roles of Mary and Matthew in Savage Abbey. Originally Mr Rhone was going to be Mary (a tribute to practically his first thread here, in which Ms Erica and I both objected to his advocacy for the phrase, "Man up!") by himself, but I didn't want the Dowager Countess to be the only shared role.

*****

Ms Fan again - If your grounds for requesting ranking with Mx Wanna rest on the Party threads, I confess to skimming those, but I am quite content to rank you.

*****

Ms Cute - Which of us ever feels truly defective? I appreciate the delicacy of your position in not wanting to be the one to say it; as long as we stipulate that I am not White Knighting, I'll own the intuition. At least he didn't convert you. By the way, did you see that Madamwhosie who made The Kids Are All Right is now working to adapt The Abstinence Teacher?
94
Thank you, Mr. Ven for your faith in me. I have long thought The Abstinence Teacher my favorite Perrota novel. Wonder what Madamwhosie will make of it.

Auntie G, Of course I include you in the list of all of those miserable middle schoolers. The good news is we leave middle school and hopefully its trauma behind; the bad news is that somewhere a bit of middle schooler resides deep down in most of us forever.

LavaGirl: I'm sorry that the holiday season stirs so much up. I can imagine how difficult it must be to feel the loss of your child during significant events. I hope today is brighter.
95
Venn @93: Bless you and your unique declamations on the board! I swear, most of the time I fancy myself to be a reasonably intelligent individual, but your posts always have me feeling like a college freshman who accidentally walked in on the PhDs' lab.

I do hope the Party Line doesn't become CMD's and my main legacy, though it did arise out of our discovery of mutual kinks. No, my nomination of Mx Wanna as my honorary board-buddy was due to his -- their? -- unconventional gender expression which, while disdained by many, is enthusiastically appreciated by me. A match made, well, probably in some sort of perverted paradise! :)
96
Wait, what? Nocute had to choose between me and Cat? When did this happen? Was I out of town? I never got the invitation to meet Mr. Cat at dawn with a chosen second and a brace of pistols....
97
Thanks Nocute.
You thinking I might kill people Venn? Noway. Losing one child makes the others and their offspring that much more precious.
Fan, yes. You and CMD on the board. He'd like that, as I know he also holds you in affection. He's away on holidays so may not chime in. I too appreciate his enjoyment of both his male and female selves.
98
@18 I've been asked to perpetrate rape fantasies on more than one occasion. [For the record, i'm definitely a dominant in bed, the women i've been with are almost always into that to some degree].

I find it harrowing and scary and troublesome even thought I'd definitely like to do it.

The problem isn't so much the acts, I've done almost everything you've seen in the porn videos. That generally isn't what my partners want - they want to feel like they've lost control, that they're helpless, that they can't stop it.

In short, they want to feel like it's real.

I find this very ethically challenging. One of the deals I make with partners is that, I may like to do this or that, and they might like this or that; but at the end of the day what's important is that we're both having fun when we're engaged sexually. With the rape fantasies though, it's a little different. I'm supposed to convince them that this isn't fun and games - it's dangerous and strenuous that they're helpless. There are safe words, but I find the type of person who wants a rape fantasy is the same type who explicitly doesn't want [to use] a safe word. I find it akin to extreme sports people, or climbers who don't want to wear a GPS beacon.

Anyhow, it all adds up to me feeling like I'm either going not far enough, or going too far, and the downsides: trauma, regret, enmity, anger, humiliation, etc on her end; stigma, guilt, legal responsibility, etc; all outweigh the upside. So even though I'm happy to tie a woman up and slap her around and do all kinds of things that no "respectable lady" might do, i'm still a "shrinking violet" when it comes to realizing a rape fantasy.
99
I'm glad I'm not the only one vennominon makes feel a little, um, under-read. Undead does that to me sometimes, too. Not getting every lit reference is probably a stupid thing to be annoyed about, but it bugs me. (Mostly when I'm a bit tipsy. Like now.)...

100
@fetish: they want to feel like it's real.

Damn. That's intense.
101
BDF
I'm truly honored.

Venn- the party is over as promised. Still like you though