Savage Love

Racist Preferences


Ms Fan - Ah, the gendre divide strikes again. From my side, being "dumped for a woman" almost never meant just "dated a woman next"; the replacement relationship had begun nearly every time. I knew two dumpees who were open to accommodation or opening the relationship, only their dumpings included the news that the woman wasn't just a fling or even a girlfriend but a fiancee. I'd agree with its being plausible that not every time was a case of dumping A "for" B, but an actual engagement seems definitive.
Venn - You're the one who persisted in addressing him by that nearly-LMB nickname. If you've had a change, that's fine. Had I noticed a falling-out, I'd have made that change earlier. I don't direct; I reflect.
I beg to differ. I don't believe that calling Hun by his favored nickname is a declaration of sexual interest or coupledom. I would not even call it flirting. I like when he uses my favored nickname but would feel the same about anyone regardless of whether I was attracted to them or not. I like the nickname, I think it's pretty and feminine. I found it offensive that you wrote of us as a couple. You can respect my feelings or you can disregard them.

Interesting racial discussion. I'm a boring white American. I was FWB with a cool black guy at one point. I had a mad crush on a smoking hot South Korean guy I worked with but I tamped it down. Egyptian, German, Romanian, Israeli, Mexican/French are all yummy. A couple of those were serious relationships. But in case I wasn't clear, I don't think it's racist to date only members of some other preferred race or to refuse to date a certain race. I think prejudice causes harm in daily life, and I think that sexual rejection is not harm to daily life, but part of everyone's life. You can attempt to reject someone kindly... but trying to convince people that they owe you sex will only work on doormats.
@SRK83: I read Things Fall Apart some time ago and thought it was fascinating. I also had the pleasure of meeting Chinua Achebe's son some time later.

A (black American) friend of mine who lived across from me for a while once told me that she would have no problem dating a white man, but in her experience they don't date black girls. I've had a couple (white American) male friends tell me they don't date black girls because they don't find them physically attractive. Whether that's the truth or some sublimated racial or class issue--who can tell.
@110, cania; thanks for posting.
Communication between the sexes of all colours is always a tough terrain.
Working thru differences, respectfully.. It's a hard one to trust, because some people really are too hard to negotiate with. I just know if I respect that difference between the sexes, I can appreciate both sides of the stories better.
@101, baystater; nice post. And you sorted your own problem. White boys can afford to shed a few tears when their feelings are hurt.
I agree. One's attractions are not in our control. They change as we change, still can't control them. Nor should we.
@114.SRK; Wow. Yes, the Catholics got to a lot of us.
I think stating preferences is ok; distaste is not. “Ethnic guys to the front of the line” passes; “no fats, fems or asians” does not. My own online profile says, “I seem to get along well with redheaded artistic geeks. I get along with lots of other people too.” Tall men turn me on without even trying but I don’t say that because it’s kind of the default. I mention the redhead connection because it’s interesting and perhaps relevant and might encourage a redhead to respond.

So if someone says “no fats, fems or asians” I think this person is not ok and don’t respond to their profile. As long as there are sites that allow antisocial profiles (which there always will be), I have no issue with some sites banning offensive ads. I’ll stick with the prosocial sites and let other people trawl the antisocial ones.

The internet is an echochamber.
@96: WTF Hunter? I only mentioned the 69th message to begin with because CMDwannabe at one point so wanted that one comment spot, and I was laughing with sb53 (see @86 & @88) and my @84 & @87 about my making the @68 spot this week. Otherwise, it makes no difference to me. It sounds more like the only one making an issue about the number 69 is you.
@109 LavaGirl: Which video are you referring to?
@107 LavaGirl: Okay--I see you meant the Weekend's song in Fifty Shades, and it's up for an Oscar. Yes, I agree that it's a shame that Hollywood continually fails to honor diversity.

Okay--Griz is going back to work now. Wishing Dan and everyone a Happy healthy Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. holiday, those celebrating it and /or enjoying the extended weekend.
Ms Phile - I had already removed the pair of you from the list; you needn't try to prove yourself "right" on some sort of technicality. (A pet nickname that only one person uses actually seems more cause than some of the pairs who have graced the list have provided; had this been some devious plot to trigger you, I'd likely have paired you with Mr Monic as a latter-day Chambers-Malone. It's all impression based, and I do recall that Mr Hunter's prior exchanges with Ms Lava, while not scoring highly for elegance, were certainly much more blatant.)
Credit to Ms Cummins for being at least partially pro-ginger.
@117. Ciods, not attracted to any black women, interesting. The fashion and advertizing culture sure doesn't represent other races in the adds, although they are begrudgingly trying to slowly address this.
Fashion, Just not enough Black women are cover girls.
So how come Black men are seen as attractive by White women as a stereotype. Perplexing.
I see Black women in the street, some of whom are from Africa and their skin is so black, I love to look and admire them. Many are strong, attractive women. The young ones are georgeous.
And photos of Black American women, very beautiful.
No wonder American Black women are onto their men to stay in the fold. Wtf is going on.
Put Philo with MrE, Venn? What were you thinking.
You and Hunter, Power Couple. Fits perfectly.

Aboriginal Australians, the Whites have so interfered with a beautiful culture, it makes my heart ache. Many are growing strong and beautiful, and have found ways to incorporate their culture with White culture very skilfully.
And many live out bush, painting the most amazing Art, and still working thru the damage that has been inflicted on them.
Hunter @121: I agree with Alison that "I prefer X" is perfectly okay; "No Y" not so much so. But I also think that it's better to be able to identify the arseholes before making the mistake of going on a date with them. So let people use their own words. Leave in the racism, leave in the misogyny and transphobia, don't edit out the bad bits that people are unwittingly helpful enough to show us right up front as big neon "I'm bad news" signs.

SRK @114: Ah, so it's more Americans generally who are viewed as fickle. I suppose by comparison to your culture as you've described it, that's entirely fair.
#57 Lavagirl: Thanks for comment. Let me just add I wrote "Semitic" not "Jewish". While Jews are obviously Semitic, so are the pan Arabs of the region. I was referring to them. On the Jewish side, one ex-boyfriend -- super duper jealous type -- always horny, sex was great. And, another ex-boyfriend from college, a ballet dancer who kept me on my toes!

#58 Growing: Re: dick size: I admit that dick preference is a strong preference for me too! While big dicks can be fun, my dick preference is a HARD COCK that keeps going and going and going.

#103 Hunter: There is a much better meme that certainly fits my style and experience: Once you go black, you ALWAYS go back.
@114 Your perspectives on black men may be more slanted by the type of people that you hand out with (that call you 'oreo') than actual black men in existence. Literally, 99% of black men I know dont give a shit what color man other black people date. if anything, it proves that person isnt another bigot.

"YOUR culture" stresses marriage before children, but this isnt your culture. First of all, a lot of African Cultures do not stress (western) marriage before children. Visit West Africa, or even East Africa for examples. Also, knowing many west African families, I am going to call shits on your "stresses western marriage before children". Marriage is a mechanism for wealth transfer and sharing. It doesnt even exist in the same sense in most of the 3rd world. Second of all, African american men are more likely to be involved in their kids lives after separation from their mothers than every other ethnic group in America (reminding you that 53% white couples divorce before 20 years of marriage).…

Perpetuating ignorant stereotypes to vilify black people is no better than what TRUMP is doing to latinos and muslims.

Why is it that black people should be held to a higher standard than whites? 62% of white couples are either divorced or never married, yet this is an 'epidemic' among blacks?

#101 Baystater: Nice post. Agreed dating and hooking up are two different things, though, not mutually exclusive.

To your question about personal preferences, I think you should state those preferences. Taking you at your word, stating you are into smooth, thin, younger, darker is wide open racially. Nothing rude there and nothing offensive. I would not be your type, but, no hurt feelings here. I'm only interested in guys who find me to their liking as much as I am into them. If its not mutual, to me, its not fun.
@72, I mean YGBKM is not fat, he was just illustrating a point. You SEEMED to have misunderstood him and talked about his being fat. Sorry if I misunderstood that you were just playing along. Also, "cynic" seems like the opposite of what I said/meant, but whatever.
Yes Sandiai; I see you were looking after me and I thank you. I should have had my critical cap on straighter.
Maybe it's a cultural thing, Sandiai.
In Australia, saying you're such a cynic is a bit of a throw away line.
@134 cania. You asking why Racism of Whites for Blacks?
Whites know their own skin colour is inferior. Especially in a country like mine, where the sun shines pretty well every day. When it's not raining.
So I think a lot of it is envy.
It's been the status quo with Whites for many years. Rude intrusive Whites, storming around the world. Crash banging into other cultures.
@132: Why does this matter to you so much?
@133, Mike. Good you answered growing's @58 ques. It was just hanging there.
G; you can report people for being lurking perverts(LP).
I just had a conversation on Facebook about this very subject. I'll just copy and paste what I wrote to my friend on my thoughts on the subject of posting you preference on a dating app.

"Preference" is about what you TEND to like. Once you frame it in a negative it's not a preference any longer.

A preference for white blonds means that maybe 9 out if 10 times you find the white blond more attractive than any of the other guys. And that's fine. That's a preference.

But a preference like that does not equate to "no blacks". Trying to equate them IS racism.

And while there is nothing wrong with having a preference in what kinds of guys you are into, putting "no blacks" or "no Asians" in a dating profile isn't a preference either. It's an act. A racist act.

I think people need to understand that when a "preference" is treated as a rigid rule it's no longer really a preference. It's an arbitrary restriction based on race, which is pretty much the definition of racism.
Venn and BDF
“dumped for” as opposed to “dated a _____ next”
It is my observation that people who are attracted exclusively to members of their own sex may have witnessed some bi lovers and potential ones opting for “normalcy”. I’m sure these are not all the reasons, but one tends to build up some resentment based on experiences, just like those articulated here by some African and African Americans commenters this week.
BDF- I’d still proudly and obediently cook and clean for you, as well as perform most other chores.

69 wars- Aunt Zelda, Lava and maybe others as well- My apologies for starting all this.
Hunter- please knock it off. Sometimes it’s not funny.

That said.. Philo @ 116
Only if you care to share, you don’t have to, and please don’t take it in a bad way- You have mentioned five or so ethnicities of men you’ve been with. You also mentioned someone, related or not, who introduced you to pegging some time ago. Would you be willing to share how men from different cultures reacedt to the idea, assuming it was brought up at some point.
@145 CMDwannabe: No apologies are necessary from you, CMD, but thanks for speaking up. I never thought you'd started anything controversial to begin with, anyway.
I nominate you, however, for taking over the Savage Love Monday Week in Review until Hunter chills out and / or takes a cold shower.
Aunt Zelda- I still think Hunter has some qualities and will gladly leave him The Weekly Standard. I often like his one liners as well, but he may have an easier time retaining old friends and making new ones if he could only be slightly more considerate and thoughtful.

Besides, Week in Review requires paying close attention to the commentariate all week long. As you may have noticed I have toned down my involvement here in the past couple of weeks, apparently it takes too much off my masturbation time and energy.
CMD - Would you be willing to share how men from different cultures reacedt to the idea, assuming it was brought up at some point.
You are so sweet, you always make me smile. I'm sorry I don't have much to report for you, pegging never came up except with white boys. I'd imagine some would have gone for it, some not. The German partied, but spun hardcore and was probably too into traditional gender roles for pegging.. his feelings about Nazis were complicated.. the Romanian was a chill party animal and he'd have given it a shot I think, he was always up for some new kind of fun. I think it would depend on how exploratory they were, instead of their nationality/culture. One Israeli was arranged by a mutual friend when he took a short business trip to my city, I didn't know him well, just a regular cute guy with some cool geeky interests, but the other I would say yeah, he was young and open minded. Mexican/French would have required some convincing, the Egyptian would have eventually asked me I think, he had friction with his traditional family members.. The black guy, we were more friends with some side benefits, maybe he could have gotten into it.. likely if he were also having sex with another woman, he seemed into group sex.. we started talking more when he borrowed my camera to film some buddies and himself entertaining a woman and let me watch it... Hopefully this encourages your sexy times rather than shorts them out.

And I went on a dinner and dancing date with an Indian dude but he wouldn't make any moves on me. I kissed him when he was dropping me off but I wasn't even sure he liked that. I think that awkwardness was more that he was my TA or not into me than that Indians are cold or shy. I mean, they made the Kama Sutra.

Hun, would you describe yourself as a geeky jock, or a macho geek, or have I pegged you completely wrong?

Now that was a flirt. I've thrown a flirt at E too, so I don't think that would be inaccurately-offensive, more aggressively-offensive since he calls me some variation of "shit" every so often.
Interesting discussion, all around.

# 114 SRK83 puts me in mind of the 90's, when I lived on DC's Capitol Hill during the Crack Years, very high crime. Driving a cab was one of the most hazardous jobs you could have (maybe still is), with most of the violence perpetrated by young black males. A lot of the drivers were black Africans, and if they talked about it, they did not, putting it mildly, see themselves as one with African-Americans.
Interestingly, an almost identical perspective was held by older African-Americans, 60+ years old, who spoke longingly of days of putting a mattress outside in the summer and sleeping under the stars, low(er) crime, and disciplined kids. Make what you will of that.

It's my impression that black Africans see themselves as far less heterogenous than they see white Americans, or white Europeans. There's a long history of 'they're black, so they all must be the same,' on the white side in general.

#116 Philo – I forgot who I'm paired with, or whether I'm a free radical, rocketing around and causing damage. I think I might owe someone a corsage or something.
I grew up in liberal North VA, and went to schools that were very much internationally integrated. A black girl was prom queen when I was there, and this didn't raise any eyebrows, but this would have been a barn-burner further south in the state, I know.
#117 C -My impression is that people have a much easier time dating someone of a different complexion if there's a strong sense of shared culture, you find the same things funny/important/out of bounds. And yeah, like you said, if you have to argue your way into someone's pants, you've already lost.

Re the talk of preferences in personal ads – I think it becomes semantics at a certain point; if you're painting a picture with negative space, you're still painting a picture. I would see a stated preference as an understated negative: if someone says 'prefer tall, 35 or under, and blue-eyed,' I'm not going to try to talk her into being into me.
In the same way nobody likes being dumped, and so it's common for us to demand explanations when it happens though they don't usually help, nobody likes to be preemptively dismissed as a dating partner, so seeing one's own characteristic(s) listed as dealbreakers carries a sting.
Dating in general can be a sting-y thing, and nobody's immune, but the alternative is arranged marriage, or some such. I agree with those who say, go ahead and list what you don't want, if only to save everyone's time.
So, in other words, gays are way more racist than straights.

Gays are far more likely to live in large, ethnically diverse metropolises than straights. They're also far less likely to have children, thus eliminating the old straight excuse of, "What about the [mixed-race] children?" I would expect a way bigger difference than 5- or 6%! They're just simply a bunch of shallow, racist queens.
Mr Cat - Ms Cute never chose between you and Mr Bloomer. While I could easily have put her in the top five with either of you, I didn't want to set the example of encouraging people to flirt (we have quite enough flirtation here already, if not too much) that giving her two rankings, one with each of you, would have done. Think of it as similar to the way Emma teased Mr Woodhouse that his lamenting his failure to call on Mrs Elton as a bride might be inducing other young ladies to marry.
Ms Lava - I hope Australia isn't too upset over Ms Stosur's losing.
Jenny @151: Uh... trollololol. Now here's an example of language that should be deleted. Jenny, if you're such a homophobe, why are you even reading Dan's column?
Ms Jenny - It's actually 48% more likely, not 6.7%.

Then again, I rather thought we'd see this response earlier.
Since it took so much effort for a gay man to stop coupling me (at least he did stop although I also got the old "you were asking for it" instead of "oopsie didn't mean to hurt your feelings") I'm not going to defend homosexuality today. It is mystifying me that Venn is so interested in coupling women.

Some parts of this column are gems to me:
My impression is that people have a much easier time dating someone of a different complexion if there's a strong sense of shared culture, you find the same things funny/important/out of bounds -Cat Bro
And some are ridiculous:
What about the [mixed-race] children? -Jenny Bigot
It's the kids' health you should worry about, not whether their skin is the same shade as their parents. Why do you think their skin color is so important?

Hun - I would have sworn you had played football and take excessive interest in your own poop. Guess that's only my old buddy that you remind me of. (Who was also talented in mathematical modelling in case you'd prefer that comparison)

I do like the variety here.
Yes Philo. It's a boring elitist game of control Venn plays at. I withdraw from
your game Venn. And really, you switch from right royal bitch to How did they feel about the loss in tennis. Quite does my head in.
The original point of the list was more censure than praise. The pairs at the top of the rankings just racked up some style points to mitigate the evils of excessive flirtation. It's actually been winding down on the whole since a bad outbreak about a year ago or so, but it seems it would be too much to ask for the need to vanish entirely, though I'd be pleased if it did.

I think I should include Ms Phile as well in my maxim about Ms Lava - that, if the two of us ever agree, one of us must be wrong. That would make a good epitaph, and I'll probably be in the mood for one by late October, if not earlier.
@148 CMDwannabe: The daily responsibilities of managing The Week in Review are duly noted. But unlike Hunter, you don't appear mean-spirited or vindictive. I feel Hunter's bizarre Jack Torrance-like persistence of what was said, over, and basically done with regarding the number 69 (see @132 this week, posted at 4 a.m.) is inexcusably creepy.
araucania: I am Igbo. Hence,the reference to Things Fall Apart. When I say my culture, I'm referring to the Igbo culture which isn't the same across the board. There are variations.

Yes,you are right. I only speak for Igbo culture NOT AFRICAN culture. Americans make the mistake of thinking Africa is a homogenous country with one language and one culture. It's more complicated than that.

As for that whole western marriage thing you're on about, no. The Igbos have traditional marriage ceremonies. It's more involved than your regular princess party for a day that's a western marriage(I assume that's what you meant: the wedding). It's a three part process that takes months or weeks(depending on logistics). There's: formal introduction, iku aka(basically telling the family you're interested in their daughter and asking for the protocols you need to observe, then the marriage ceremony that can either go two ways: one done for family and extended family or one for the general public(in addition to family, anyone can be invited). Usually,when all that is done, it's not necessary to have the big fancy princess party. Why? Because before the church and the missionaries showed up in Africa, these cultures and these traditions were long in existence. Some people decide to stop at the traditional marriage ceremonies.

I don't know why you're so defensive or angry. I am not so arrogant to speak for a continent with millions of cultures and languages. The UN once charted the language I speak and found it had more than 300 dialects and as many traditions. I also respectfully decline to read the link provided. I've lived in the culture, the Igbo region, my sibling went the traditional marriage route without the princess party and nobody gives them guff about having illegitimate children because culturally, they are married and did all the traditional marriage rites.

You laughingly remind me of some SJW who was complaining about how racist the book of mormon was and tried to get me to sign some inane petition to shut the production down. I'll say to you what I said to her: Thank you for defending our honour,but we can do that better than you can because we have experience and real stories to back up whatever we're rambling on about. We appreciate the support though from people who actually can help the cause without derailing it with whatever axe they need to grind.

As for your other rants: Carry on. It seems like you have an axe to grind. So... grind away.

Cat Brother: to my knowledge, we generally don't. I think it's because we don't have the same narratives as Black Americans: slavery, the civil rights era, Jim Crow in the South,miscegenation laws in the South. In theory, we can empathize but we've never been through the hell they've been through.

We don't have to agree or disagree Venn. Just keep your nasty words and attempts to divide the group with your adolescent power couples bullshit to yourself.
And if anyone is flirting excessively on these threads, it's you. Please.. You and Nocute, get a room.
Thank you for your comments SRK.
Yes, I made that same mistake in reference to the lost Australian Aboriginal culture(s).
@Mr. Venn, 155: I could hug you. I love people who understand the difference between percentages and percentage points.

Also--I've started reading Emma. Report to follow.
Philophile, I am in a mixed-race relationship. I'm confused; does the word "excuse" have a POSITIVE connotation where you live?
BiDanFan Good luck finding a gay dude 30 or younger who would object to "shallow" as a characterization. None of them would consider themselves or anyone else dateable with 10 extra pounds on their frames. But the word "racist" is objectionable, why? It's just as true in this case. The stats should be much higher given the demographics!
Aw, Philophile, Lava, I see Venn's "power couples" as just a bit of fun for someone who has removed himself from the dating game. But I missed the beginning of it so I could be wrong. And I've escaped the fate of being "coupled" with someone I would hate to find on the other side of the table at an OKCupid date, so there's that.
Perhaps I am just feeling charitable toward Venn for his mathematical takedown of Jenny Bigot.
Jenny @167: Thank you, I will pass your kind words on to my friends L and J, a gay couple in their early 20s, both of whom like to dress up but one of whom is rather chubby, and we can all have a good laugh.
1. "Petting" = foreplay. At least in Europe. Just sayin'

2. I'm about as non-biased as they get. Still, I won't date men, Asians, blacks, and women who are too young/old/skinny/obese. I don't make assumptions about them as people, it's just that my glands are biased and won't respond to them sexually. And no amount of lectures about homophobia/racism/ageism/ other -isms is going to change it.

3. As for biased people who automatically assume you to be X because your skin colour is Y, well, apparently the gay community is no better than the straight.
@1(69), Fan. you not notice the insidious put downs Venn throws out? You're not on his list, so I guess you wouldn't. I just finally got bored with it, and his purile little games.
I'll just add Venn to the list of people I jump over. He never seems to address the questions with much that I can make sense of, so continuity won't be a problem.
Freestick @171: I'm in Europe. You seem to be one of those people who believe appending "Just sayin'" to something makes it true.
So. Some Hollywood noise about the all White nominations again at this year Academy Awards. And some movement re changing the make up of the voters, who mostly have been, surprise surprise,
White Men.
Jenny Possibly Not a Bigot - does the word "excuse" have a POSITIVE connotation where you live?
No one in my family has ever mentioned the word "mixed race" to me about my cousins who have a black mom and white dad, as an excuse or a real problem. They are awesome kids. Just the concept of mixed race is nasty to me; it's not about race, we are all mixed race if you look far enough back. It's about skin color. Superficial power game nonsense launched by people who have nothing better to do than compare themselves to others. Boredom and insecurity can be fought in a million better ways.
Venn, I would find it very pleasing to agree that we were mutually wrong rather than fighting over who is right re courtesy. Interesting that a scold was intended, so, this was vying with me for Hun's attention? En guarde!

No we would truly make a horrible couple.. to tie some threads together..
H: I was thinking about drilling your butt tonight
P: You first
H: No that is wrong
P: I think it's wrong if it's a one way street
[frustrated looks] ... And another area of sex dead. We'd be relegated to boring vanilla pasty poopy blahness. No no we would each work better with others.

It is cool to read about Igbo marriage and feral Aussie camels in a sex column.
BDF - You are not on the mainland, you don't count. Sissou where are you?
I dropped a spark plug about a meter onto concrete yesterday. Stuck it in my engine anyway with crossed fingers and it's silky smooth even on the highway! Lucky lucky though I will replace it soon.
@ Eddie the frustrated Asian guy. I was thinking about the days when I was dating and suffering lots of rejection. I had (and still somewhat have) an attraction to taller women. I am not tall, merely of average height. I did not ask women nor my buddies if this preference was part of all the rejection I was getting. Had I done some research, It turns out that most girls HATE the idea of dating a shorter man . If I had that knowledge, I may not have changed my preferences but I would have suffered a whole lot less knowing that it was my preference that was getting me kicked to the curb so often.
We can use my father's old saying here:.."Too soon ist Vee old,..,.Too late ist Vee schmatt"
Someone wrote about feral Aussie camels Philo? I missed that one.
Aunt Zelda @ 160
That was 4 am Seattle time. I’ve always suspected he’s a New Yorker, which means 7, and he did mention something about walking the dogs.
He should have still stayed away from you when it was obvious you don’t like his stuff.

Philo @ 177
OMG, strap on AND car maintenance?
If Lava wouldn’t scold me I’d say we should meet for coffee some time…
If you looking at me as Camel, Philo.. I'd rather go with Brumby, wild Aussie horse.
You get in it's face a quick kick will sort you out.
Scold you CMD? Sounds like a lovely idea.
What a remarkably blessed place, birth town to both Frank Zappa and John Waters.
@CMD: my favorite John Waters quote: “We need to make books cool again. If you go home with somebody and they don't have books, don't fuck them.”
ciods @ 184
And that's what what he said last year or the one before in a college graduation ceremony!!!
Lava - You wrote about seeing wild camels in the last couple months. I thought you were bullshitting so I googled it. I don't know why I find wild camels so funny. The hump? Cameltoe? Camel spit? Anyway I thought it was cool.

CMD - But.. I'm not bi. Could you outsource the gay sex completely? Idk I'd think that teaching BDF how to swap out her plugs would be easier..…
I didn't like how she tightened those though. Get a torque wrench and google "torque spark plugs echo" (It's 12 ft lb for an echo) instead. You don't want them to seize but you also don't want them rattling around.
Philo @ 187
At least you don't own a Yaris
CMD - At least you don't own a Yaris
Toyota made a car that wasn't awesome? I found that vid for my sister actually. She is driving her Echo into an early grave. She wants a new car but the needless deterioration is painful for me to see. I doubt you would approve of my model but it works well and is suited to my needs.
@180 CMDwannabe: Thanks--I'd forgotten that there is the 3-hour time difference between Seattle and apparently, Baltimore (rather than New York). I'm beginning to wonder if I should just skim past Hunter's typical streams of inflammatory Howard Stern-like garbage altogether if he focuses on malice.
@184 ciods: Thank you for sharing the John Waters quote. I like that.
Well, I'm a straight white guy, and I've been rejected because of my race. Hell, I've been told I ought to not even think about women of a different race. Not specific people, but off-limits in general.
As a gay man who is... well...'s my unscientific, but always accurate observation. Most men tend to prefer men like themselves, with a possible exception of nearly all men are good for men younger than they are. But race, body type, height, smooth / hairy, cut / uncut... tend to pair up alike. There are clearly exceptions and some people like contrast. But still.

Also, men where there are a lot of other gay tend to become increasingly finicky about their desires and "type" as they can nearly always find it. Frankly, if you read Cosmo and the like so do women. I live in the suburbs of a large city and score some very very fine "fun" from guys who are visiting... I'm not their dream date I suppose, but I'm more than good enough. And that works for me...