Savage Love

Sound Mind and Body

Comments

1
And cleanliness matters, SOS, whether you're sounding the husband or serving burritos to the public


... which is not to suggest, however, that a burrito is ever appropriate for sounding, even if sterilized.
3
@2: No no no, we're absolutely not sending used dildos and sex toys to
Bundy Militia
c/o Malheur National Wildlife Refuge
36391 Sodhouse Lane
Princeton, OR, 97721
Dan was pretty emphatic about us not sending used dildos and sex toys to
Bundy Militia
c/o Malheur National Wildlife Refuge
36391 Sodhouse Lane
Princeton, OR, 97721
, so we should respect his wishes in his column.
4
Lately it seems that every slightly kinky sex worker has a set of sounds laying around. Even if I found the idea appealing I wouldn't let them anywhere near my dick with those. I don't trust that they know how to handle them.
5
Few words along the line from a former Registered Alien:
As much as I truly love and adore my otherwise-fake-yet-fairly-realistic breasts, I have no plans of reassigning my penis any time soon. As such, and I suspect I’m not the only penis owner who did so, I was holding it in horror as I read the first letter while looking nervously over my shoulders every now and then.
That’s not to say there’s anything wrong with sounding or the people who enjoy it. Unfortunately not everyone cares for my latest lingerie purchase.

Second letter- step work is indeed a very good approach to introducing kinks and such.

6
@ 2& 3 - Looks like Bundy and a couple of members of his militia finally have a new address.

http://katu.com/news/local/leader-of-ore…
7
Mx Wanna - I'm your your purchase is every bit as tasteful as we'd all expect. Just be careful which dominant women you allow to practise on you for their forthcoming attempt to institute the matriarchy you appear to want.
8
Straight out of the Dr's mouth, spit is not a lube.
9
Keep those photos secure on a USB drive -- one dedicated solely to this one subject, that never leaves the house, and stored somewhere away from the computer and hard to find. You can encrypt that sucker, too.
10
SOS's letter made my imaginary penis* yelp and run away in fear.** Particularly the part about fingers. Ow. Maybe male pee-holes are a bit more stretchable than female ones (wouldn't know myself), but I'm not sure why you'd need a doctor to point out to you that a finger might not be a good beginner sounding instrument.

* "Imaginary Penis" would be a good name for a band.
** Anyone who makes a "NOPE NOPE NOPE" penis gif wins the internet for the next month. I'm too lazy.
11
Wow Dan REALLY went into detail on that one huh? I feel like usually he would just recommend a book or website. Maybe it was the dick pic?
13
CMD @5: I don't own a penis -- unless you count the ones in my bedside drawer -- and I was crossing my legs and cringing at the first letter.

And Venn @7: I hope you do know that, just as good feminists can indulge their submissive tendencies without endorsing the Patriarchy, CMD can also embrace his sexual desires without that being a commentary on Society as a Whole. (Or as a hole.)
14
Hi y'all - I'm baaaaack! Been a rough winter in the family arena, with deaths and hospitalizations and impending nuclear fissions of nearby relationships.

Venn - I remember that your mother was particularly -- unpleasant and domineering? -- which colors your view of women, I'm sure. But I wonder how much worse a matriarchy could be, compared to the patriarchy we currently endure?

CMD - ahhhhh, breasts and a penis too, one of my favorite fantasies!

Sounding - sounds OUCH without a doubt. But then, so did anal sex before I tried it, and I supposed sounding could sometimes not be OUCH??
15
st @14
Sounding - sounds OUCH without a doubt. But then, so did anal sex before I tried it, and I supposed sounding could sometimes not be OUCH??

I've heard reports that it isn't painful. However, it seems more risky than anal sex. After all, one's rectum is adapted to the passage of more or less solid stuff (albeit the other way around), while the urethra is adapted to fluids passing through it.
16
Ms Thinking - My parents were equally hideous; Mommy Issues won't fly. My mother wasn't domineering; she may have been alcoholic and inclined to hit, but she did have one great virtue of being extremely inclined to have an active social life. I didn't see as little of her as a properly brought up British child, raised mainly by Nanny and/or a governess until age seven and being sent to school, but I had a lot of time on my own or eventually superintending siblings. I was q
17
[weird - #16 posted itself partly written; I wonder what key I hit by mistake]...quite fond of housework, and probably would have made a desirable husband for many women on that score. My father, for his part, was a serial adulterer (between them, they covered all of Dr Schlessinger's three As) and discovered that it was easier to facilitate when he used me as an accessory. I never told, but, to be quite honest, I didn't work out what was happening, mainly because I didn't care. I was usually left either alone in a hotel room or in a library with plenty of interesting books, and was quite well enough pleased with my lot not to wonder why.

Would matriarchy be worse than patriarchy? I think that might depend on how much more authoritarian it had to be to maintain power. I hope even those of the assembled company who may happen to be pro-matriarchy at heart (and I would not blame anyone for such thoughts or feelings) would call the Bindel solution of putting all the men into camps where their women could sign them out for an occasional short outing into civilization a tad excessive, but the huge question is how many steps in that direction would be required to keep a matriarchy propped up. Some would say none; there are predictions afloat that the Education Divide will increase to the point at which power will just flip naturally. Even Animal Farm, one might say, wouldn't technically be any worse. I'm not sure. People in power like to remain in power. In addition to the example of overthrowing an oppressive regime, which served as a valuable lesson for Orwell's pigs, I'm not sure how confident early matriarchs would be in their being able to maintain their position without more legal restrictions on men than are imposed on women now. I don't think #killallmen would be necessary, but I can't quite see matriarchs feeling safe enough not to make sure to bolt, bar, booby-trap and isolate the door to control through which they passed.

Just in case anyone's wondering whether I'd ever take to anything along the line of #killallstr8z, the answer is no. The closest I've imagined to Queertopia would be for the US to allow New England to secede, have a period of relocation for those wanting in to or out of homonormative society, and then for the new country to form sections. In such a case, I just hope I'd be able to relocate to Newport - lovely grass tennis courts.
18
@18: The punchline is that I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people who'd agree with your plan to get rid of all the queers and New England at the same time. Of course, they'd probably follow that up with nuclear war, so it's not much of a utopia for anyone.
20
Hunter @19: It may be accurate, but it's still not very nice, to call Venn a poof.

:D
22
RE "think of the children": I've always liked this observation:

"'For the sake of the children' is a terrible reason to keep a bad marriage together. It's a good reason to keep a so-so marriage together."

A marriage that works on all levels except sex arguably fits in the 'so-so' category.
23
Sounding feels amazing. Absolutely amazing. The key is slow, lots of sterile lube, and no pushing. It's almost as if the inside of your penis is a vagina (just going off the assumption that it feels awesome having things inside it) and with the right tiny toys, you can give yourself that enjoyment.

It's also incredibly hot to be tied down and watching someone guide a large metal rod into your dick.

Dan neglected to mention that there are wonderful silicone sounds these days which are almost impossible to cause damage. They do need to be pushed because they are soft and flimsy, but you can also work them much deeper if you're into that sort of thing.
25
@10: "Maybe male pee-holes are a bit more stretchable than female ones (wouldn't know myself), "

FWIW, if you're taking a survey, put in one data point that says "Less."
26
Any other guys begin squeezing their legs together and cringing as they read sounding (consistency of wet paper towels)
27
I, for one, appreciated the letter and response about sounding. It was a change from the routine, and I thought the response was informative and thorough. If you are in the position of needing to know how to do it and what to use, it's necessary to have such detailed info.

I first heard of sounding in Dan's column many years ago (in paper, actually, reading him in syndication in the San Francisco Bay Guardian). Although I don't have a penis, reading about sounding initially made me squirm, but now that it sounds less shocking, I can imagine that it is a pretty hot activity. I don't think I would ever bring it up, but if a partner of mine were ever interested, it's nice to know I know a bit of what to do and not do.

As for the second letter, if I was the wife, I don't know that I'd be all that surprised by what the husband's done. Since they already had one set of plastic cock-and-stomach, there wasn't any reason to buy another, so the fact that they did in a different color suggests that one or both of them have racially-charged fantasies about the white wife having sex with a black man. I would likewise not be surprised that he'd kept the images and videos; most people I know who have dirty picture or videos of someone they know and are still on good enough terms with that it won't intrude on the wank session (and maybe to some people it doesn't even matter if you hate each other now, if the sex back when the photos or videos were taken was really great) keep them. It's really the photoshop aspect that is surprising--if only because that represents such an investment of time and effort on the husband's part.

So long as no one else will ever see these photos and videos, watching these videos/looking at these photos together as foreplay porn seems like a great way for this couple to stay monogamous, if that's what they want, while fulfilling a trans-racial kink and a possible hotwife or cuckold fetish. But boy--she has to really, really trust her husband to not make them public or show them to anyone else for any reason. And they have to consider and plan for every possible accident that would reveal them. avast2006 @9 had some good ideas for starters.
30
Hunter @29: That depends on whether fantasies and desires are the same thing. *ducks*
31
@ 15 - "After all, one's rectum is adapted to the passage of more or less solid stuff (albeit the other way around)"

You make it sound like anuses are some sort of a cock-eating trap - "cocks go in, but they don't come out".
32
And well may we all duck, Fan. It is rather creepy I feel, husband or not. Isn't there some other hobby this guy could take up.
33
I agree with Ms Cute that it is refreshing from time to time to have a long, technical question and/or a long, technical answer. Those of us who have a two- or three-degree connection to the issue can learn something, and nobody need do any worse than say FTWL and pass on.

*****

Ms Fan, you're usually more serious than this, but the Brits have some quaint terminology. If memory serves, in Peter's Friends, Mr Fry told Ms Thompson he'd always been a bit of a whoopsie. Doubtless there are a myriad of neutral terms for the situation.

*****

Mr Monic - Well, we are major donor states, which probably means they wouldn't let us go without charging a substantial fee. But think how pleased the vast majority of straight America would be to be free of us. All the red states would be delighted; the straight people who may have SS loved ones and genuinely care for them while simultaneously preferring a more heteronormative society would get their wish; parents who now would prefer their children to be straight for unselfish reasons would be able to delight in knowing that a noncishet child would have the option of a perfectly happy life in Vermont or Maine. That last would perhaps give Mr Savage a dilemma, as I think his natural impulse would be to remain with the straight country and rail against the separatists - but for the availability of a safe option for the young.

*****

Don't mind little me, anyone. I'd saved up enough money for health insurance this year, but it was all wiped out by a major car repair bill, and so I shall have to soldier forward as I am for another twelvemonth. Perhaps some of the assembled company will find it not outrageous to hope that QNE would handle that issue better.
34
@ lw-1
I have some experience with sounding, some 2 years ago. I was quite nervous but The Goddess assured me that She was experienced, and knew her stuff. I asked her why she was interested in sounding. Her answer: "I am always looking to find a new way to fuck my men".
Just to ease my worries I had a wee dram of bourbon prior and allowed an hour for the experiment. Turns out The Goddess knew her skills and was also very patient. It was an amazing feeling, but now looking back now it seems like I took a terrific risk. I have not tried it again.
35
Is it okay that I have a porn stash that features my wife?

Doesn't every husband?

Is it okay that I have a stash of Photoshop porn of my wife fucking black men?

Ok, that's a bit, ummm, different. But I like your creativity! And I get why this would be hot.

Should I share this info—and my fantasies—with her?

You're no more obligated to share your photoshopped images with her than you would be your diary.

As for sharing your dark meat fantasies, is there a specific outcome you're hoping for? Doesn't sound like either of you actually want her to fuck a black guy, so what would be the point? If you do share, start with the fantasy, and then maybe show the photoshopped images depending on her reaction.
36
Ricardo- Welcome back

BDF
Thanks for your latest kind words as well as telling me last week to knock it off in very kind words indeed.
Here's a video I stumbled upon lately which you may or may not appreciate. Yes, I do like the soft submission and the cross dressing aspects of it. But what I like most is the sense I’m getting that these two people enjoy what they’re doing, and viewing their interactions may very well be in a romantic relationship as well. They’re even having fun recording and posting it. And maybe in relation to LW2- they seem to do so with love and trust.

Ordinary people during the day, their very own bedroom at night, and real bodies (though once it’s up he manages to maintain his erection in a somewhat suspicious, possibly admiring-yet-jealous, way.) Three parts, about 8 minutes each, follow the next link by scrolling down

It may add another example of a lube-free handjob, a question I tried to answer some time ago.
http://xhamster.com/movies/3516959/panty…
37
seandr @ 35
I agree with most, but I think that manipulations of your lover's naked pictures and adding other people, while saved outside your very own soft drive without their consent or at least knowledge of, may mean a problem somewhere down the road.
38
@seandr, 35:

You're no more obligated to share your photoshopped images with her than you would be your diary.

Agreed, assuming you keep that stash under serious lock and key. That means encrypted, and for god's sake, not on the cloud! A flash drive works, as avast @9 recommends. And beware automatic backups that your program or computer 'helpfully' do for you. Leaked photos, like a leaked diary, can do endless unintended harm that can't be undone.
39
@ 36 - Thanks, CMD, but in fact I'm always there. Sometimes I'm too busy with work to enter into these time-consuming slog debates, but I read you guys anyway.
40
@ciods: No question, there's a huuuuuge obligation to keep such material secure, and I think you've hit the key points about how to do that.

I'll just emphasize that if you know how your computer thingamajig works, it's definitely possible to store this stuff so that the risk of it being compromised is close enough to zero.

@CMD: without their consent

Consent is certainly required to take the photos/videos, and if it comes with conditions, those conditions should be honored.

Beyond that, it's not clear to me he needs permission to manipulate the images for his own private amusement. Does a wife need her spouse's permission to write about private, sensitive matters involving her husband in her diary? How about if she mixes in fantasy with fact? I don't think so. She just needs to make sure the kids don't find it.

Practically speaking, I don't think a few unattributed fake images of some random wife fucking a black porn star are going to make much of a splash on the internet. It would take some bad luck for someone who knows her to see them.

Of greater concern, I would think, are the home movies, since there is relatively high demand and limited supply for genuine home made porn. If he has any decent fucking or sucking footage, that's definitely going to get around if it falls into the wrong hands.

Speaking of the wrong hands, why would an iPad thief take the risk of publishing someone's private porn to the internet (assuming he can hack the iPad + security app in the first place)? He's not going to get any money for them, and it only gives authorities an additional means and motive for tracking him down.

My impression is that unless you are famous, "the wrong hands" are almost always a nutty, vengeful ex-boyfriend/husband.
41
@seandr:
My impression is that unless you are famous, "the wrong hands" are almost always a nutty, vengeful ex-boyfriend/husband.

Unfortunately true, and an awareness of which can give even the most game-for-it girl second thoughts. Before they leak revenge porn, angry ex-boyfriend types should think of all the poor guys who will never get the go-ahead from their girl because of it.
42
Wow. I used to think sounding was kind of hot and that I might like to try it some time. Then I read this column.

File that one under "looks hot on video, but..."
43
Ms Ods - Trying to manipulate the Bro Code for feminist purposes? Admirably subversive. [Note: I originally had "subvert" in the first sentence and "sneaky" instead of "subversive" in the second, but changed the wording on purpose so as not to annoy Ms Phile.]

What, if you have one, is your counter-example of what men should fear from a nutty, vengeful ex-girlfriend/wife? (Not a Gendre Wars shot, just a reflection that a platitude about a woman scorned ought to have something behind it. I know Dr Barreca has supported property damage as revenge, and only in one direction. That was too bad, as I'd rather liked her political columns.)
44
Ciods @41: "Before they leak revenge porn, angry ex-boyfriend types should think"

You could have ended the sentence there. Unfortunately, when angry, many people do NOT think.
45
CMD @36: Very nice. Reminds me a bit of how I spent last Saturday night. :D Keeping balls from escaping is always the challenge with panties.
I'm not surprised a fellow that young, who's obviously so into panties, is having no trouble maintaining his erection. My only question is where are the stockings? :)
46
Ms Fan @44 - Well played. You're on form this week.

(I accidentally typed the dollar sign instead of @, which made me think that I really ought to get a British keyboard; it would feel properly stylish to be able to mention, say, Miss Austen's appearance on the ten pound note with the appropriate symbol.)
47
@venn: What, if you have one, is your counter-example of what men should fear from a nutty, vengeful ex-girlfriend/wife?

That she'll start fucking his best friend.
48
Dr Sean - I'm inclined to call it sweet of you to value your friends so highly. There's probably some peculiarly OS element of the situation I'm missing, but it does feel a little tame put up against revenge porn.

I suspect Ms Cute is now hearing Henry Tilney say that, in general, after a breakup, vengeful nuttiness is about equally divided between the sexes.
49
LW1 As a proponent of the "calculated risk, I'm all for doing edgy stuff where the odds are in your favor (i.e. skydiving, bungee jumping, rock climbing). For me, the opportunity to punch a hole in my dick totally outweighs sounding's pleasure factor. It might feel incredible, but so do blow jobs and unless you've got yourself a "biter" the odds of dick damage are much more favorable.

LW2 Unless she was in a coma, your wife was aware of you taking compromising photos of her in the first place, right? I don't think she'd get too worked up to find that you messed with them a little in Photoshop.
50
@Venn, 43:
What, if you have one, is your counter-example of what men should fear from a nutty, vengeful ex-girlfriend/wife?
I am lucky not to have any crazy exes, myself, or know anyone (of either gender) who has any (of either gender). That means I get all my examples from media or the coconut telegraph. It seems to me the most frequently portrayed vengeful female ex act is destroying the guy's stuff: think of Angela Basset in Waiting to Exhale starting a bonfire in her husband's car--or the Carrie Underwood song Before He Cheats. Both are actually positive portrayals, seen as the guy's rightful comeupance for cheating, which I think is problematic. I have to come down against property damage, no matter how catchy the song. As for a more random vengeful ex--the woman scorned, rather than the woman cheated-on--I supposed seandr's suggestion is a decent example. And actually, unlike the property damage, that I *have* seen happen, although I'm not sure it was done really vengefully, but more because the set of people shared a social group, and if you have only one social group, you tend to date people in it.

Of course, the best revenge is moving on with your life and not looking back. I sometimes wonder if "the kids today" haven't made that harder for themselves by all their social media entanglements.
51
Like ciods, I am not a vengeful person and have no experience with revenge for cheating among my acquaintance. My knowledge likewise comes from movies or stories of people that friends of friends know, or the stuff I read on the Internet.

I also think that destroying property--especially property left in the care of the woman--is the most common, followed by having sex with someone the man knows and thinks poorly of (a much lower-status man at work, for instance) and making sure the guy knows about it, or having sex with the man's friends (makes you wonder about the solidity of those friendships).

In addition to posting photos and videos made for him or with him in them online where they live in perpetuity, I've heard of men who send those photos and videos to the woman's family, employer, everyone on her email contacts list, etc. And we've all heard of the crazy, vengeful ex who kills his ex-wife or girlfriend, sometimes along with her new boyfriend or husband or some guy he just thinks is her new boyfriend, and sometimes her kids, too.

Basically it seems that the crazy wronged woman's goal is to humiliate the man and the crazy vengeful man's goal is to completely ruin the woman's life.
52
In fact, I've thought of one real-life crazy vengeful ex I know of--in this case, a guy. A friend of mine broke up with the guy she was living with and then went to work, only to find on her return that he'd changed the lock on their apartment (which had been hers first) and sold all her stuff. This was pre-internet, so the sale happened on the sidewalk out front all day while she was gone.

Suffice to say, she didn't have great taste in men.
53
@nocute: one more example now comes to mind, again a guy, and more in the lines of your examples--the same friend I mentioned in @52 had another unhappy ex call her parents and inform them that she'd had an abortion in her past (not while with him). As far as I can tell this was done with the singular purpose of damaging her relationship with her parents. (Fortunately, it didn't succeed for long.)
54
@48. Not sure that's true Venn. Don't hear of many women that go after and kill their ex partners.
55
Hmm. After ciods' comment @50, I wonder if there are different revenge acts for scorned people rather than cheated-on people.
56
Grammar; grammar; Who go after...
57
Re sounding: Yeesh, cringe. Too much clinical description for me. Next time, Dan, how about a link to the detailed instructions so we recreational readers can skip over the gory details? Re revenge: I think that different male-female revenge patterns are partly biological, partly cultural. I'll armchair-psych explain this from an OS perspective since that's what I know; others may want to chime in with the SS version. Angry men want to negate the possibility of other men having sex with "their" woman, so they take actions to destroy her life, either literally or figuratively. Angry women either 1) use that knowledge against their ex, by flaunting sexual escapades with other men - yes, often with those perceived as lower-status - or 2) take out their anger and hurt by wrecking their man's most prized possessions, because guys can get super-obsessive about their stuff. (A generalization I know, but this is almost 100 percent a guy thing in my experience.) Sometimes the stuff takes priority over the relationship, and that almost never ends well. Chances are that she has been secretly jealous of that sportscar, HDTV, baseball card collection, etc. for years, and the end of the relationship gives her a chance to show him her true feelings on the subject. I'm not excusing this behavior; responsible, mentally healthy adults do not commit vengeful acts on their partners when a relationship ends, no matter how badly they have been hurt. But I can understand why there are different styles of revenge that are partially gender-driven.
58
We're forgetting the obvious - taking his house, money, and kids with the help of an especially aggressive divorce lawyer.
59
@58: Oh, that. Yeah, too common to bother mentioning. But of course in order to that the two of you have to have been married.
60
edit to #59: "in order to do that." Not "in order to that."
Sure wish Slog had either an after-the-posting editing feature (like Facebook), or gave posters the ability to delete their own comments.

It's almost like they want us to look stupid . . .
61
So I ask the assembled SSers, are there SS-specific revenge acts? Do gay guys revenge-porn each other? Do lesbians go sleep with other, lower-status lesbians? Does the SS aspect change what works as revenge? It seems like it might.
62
@ 61 - I have seen both property-destroying and reputation-destroying acts of revenge among gay male exes, but they're both extremely rare (in my experience). The most common form of revenge I've witnessed is finding a better-looking rebound guy to flaunt around town (still not that common, though).

Most gays I know just go and get laid to soothe their ego a bit, then try to move on with their lives. Then again, I just don't hang out with drama queens.
63
I once had a VD test in the 90s that included a wire with q-tip like fuzz on it shoved up just a centimeter up my urethra. It was not so much arousing as completely excruciating. I'll pass on any further insertion until bodily decrepitude makes it unavoidable.
64
@58 seandr Curious why you would describe the house, money and kids and *his* and not theirs? Also, it is notable that it is generally women who get the shorter end of the stick financially in a divorce, but that will likely open a can of worms here. Typically, both parties suffer financially as a result of divorce, women more significantly than men. Unless you go in with the assumption that everything (house, money, kids) is *his* to begin with, in which case I can see why you would think the husband is losing more than the wife.

Having said all that, I am aware of both men and women who shamelessly use their kids as pawns or just don't reasonably protect their kids from the trauma of divorce.

As for revenge, I've cheated on two partners, both when I was a teen. One made sure to complain about it to my mother and my best friends and then humiliate me in front of a couple thousand classmates. The other just said some mean things to me and moved on. The one time I discovered I was cheated on, I felt no desire for revenge, I just felt sad. I suppose I did say some mean things to him. What I've seen most frequently among my peers is the cheated upon spouse informing the corresponding cheated upon spouse of the infidelity. Facebook makes this very easy. I've seen this maybe five times, usually initiated by the male cheated upon spouse.
65
Ms Cute makes an excellent point - scorned and cheated-upon are rather different.

*****

Ms Lava - Yes; most women have the excellent good sense to kill the men they want dead while they're still married and will probably inherit if they can avoid being caught or pull off a successful Gone Girl variation. Why kill him after splitting?
66
I feel like the most important part was left out. You need to go pee as soon as you're done sounding so you don't get a urinary tract infection!
68
Ms Future - I do recall well how it was quite a thing in the 80s for a lawyered-up male provider to threaten his homemaker wife with suing for custody in order to bully her into accepting a settlement below what she deserved. At about the same time, there was a contrasting theme in the air about how much better it was for children for a divorced father to permit Husband #2 to adopt them and just disappear from their lives. At least there seems to have been progress on both those fronts, and we can all hope that SS divorce will set a shining example for the benefit of everyone (my attitude towards divorce probably isn't too far off a parallel of Mr Savage's towards abortion).

I think the difficulty in discussing divorce may well be who gets to define suffering; it's a bit like someone who called Ms le Tourneau a rapist trying to discuss rape with Ms Koss
69
@futurecatlady: Curious why you would describe the house, money and kids and *his* and not theirs?

"His" and "theirs" aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

This reminds me of a true scorned ex-wife story. A former coworker at a large software company, had a modest job but had accumulated a small fortune in stock options over the many years he worked there, married a woman with borderline personality disorder, he couldn't take the crazy anymore and filed for divorce, she hired a shark for a lawyer, sued for all of their assets and full custody of the kids, tied up the stock options for years so they couldn't be cashed in, and by the time the court determined she was mentally ill and gave him everything, including full custody of their kids, the company's stock price had plummeted and the options were worth only a fraction of their former value, with the lion's share going towards their lawyers.

Typically, both parties suffer financially as a result of divorce, women more significantly than men.

Reminds me of another divorce story. One of my employees, lives in MA where divorce law is (or at least was) famously old fashioned, married a woman, divorced in their mid thirties, no kids, 10 years later he's still paying alimony, she still doesn't have a job and doesn't want one, meanwhile he's remarried, has two small kids, and will be paying alimony until ?? (He told me in 9 years his payments will be significantly reduced. Then he told me he didn't want to talk about it anymore).

I guess you could say, based on raw income, that she's suffered more financially from the divorce than he.
70
Yup: divorce sucks. Being married to or sometimes even divorcing from a malicious and crazy person sucks big-time.
71
Huh. I really don't get the black man thing. Intellectually I understand that the eroticized race taboo thing is a reaction to social constructs, but I don't actually get it.

I've been with white men and black men, and a good looking man is a good looking man. I can see some aesthetic considerations where the contrast between light and dark skins is beautiful [I'm looking at you Mr. Mapplethorpe], but that's not what's going on in the LW's fantasies.

I'm sure I sure I'm not free of racial biases...I guess I've just not fetishized them.

72
Venn @ 7, BDF @ 13
Venn, you made a valid point that needs to be addressed, maybe even more so after the video link I sent to BDF @ 36.
My submissive tendencies are not the sum up of my feminine self, far from that. In fact, many acquaintances of mine are likely to be quite surprised to hear any of it exists.
Yet in general trans women, queers, nonbinaries and so on are often assumed to be submissive (and also work as strippers, which is a step up from psychotic killers.)
I know you don’t think any of it, but Lava keeps reminding me that young people all over the world are reading this blog so I felt obligated.

Back to male-born queers who like to dress up…I suspect many if not most of us have felt confusion, shame, and guilt when starting this whole journey. Very sadly some will always do.
Also keep in mind that to some older folks one of the very few accepting human interactions of some sort as a woman, to some degree or another, also meant submission to some degree or another. A hefty hourly wage was often associated with this acceptance.

Unfortunately the x-rated cross dressing videos I can find are almost exclusively along this line. Some aspects of those videos may be intriguing regardless of what I actually do in real life, but they’re certainly not all of who I am. Not to mention pantyboy and his loving partner.

73
Dr Sean @ 69
Congrats, but only for the number.
Unfortunately the stock tanked once then #2 declared they're over valued.
74
Ophian; I've been reading a biography of Robert's partner.. Sorry name escapes me. Some of RM's pictures are in the book, beautiful.
I think LW2 is wanting a bit of Black cock himself, and he's just projecting.
75
@ 74 - "I think LW2 is wanting a bit of Black cock himself, and he's just projecting"

No, Lava, that can't be... That sort of thing NEVER happens...
76
@ 63 - I remember those tests, too, and no matter how open minded I try to be about non-standard sexual practices, sounding still makes me squirm. I sometimes find it out when I see videos, but I can't imagine doing it or having it done to me.
77
I meant "find it hot"
78
@69 seandr - I'm pretty sure we will never come to agreement on this topic. Alimony is not gender based, I do have a problem with describing community property as possessed by only one of the parties in the marriage (regardless of gender), detailed formulas are typically used to divide things like unvested equity granted before and during marriage in order to reflect true community property, and divorced women do more frequently live in poverty than divorced men. I think our views on this are too far apart to have a meaningful discussion but I'll admit I knew what I was getting into when I commented in the first place. Your opinion is not uncommon. I won't derail the thread further on this topic.

And yes, crazy people make divorce more hellish, regardless of gender. And people with greater resources, regardless of gender, tend to hire more aggressive lawyers.
79
Mr. Venn - I wonder how the violence needed to maintain a matriarchy would compare with the past couple thousand years of violence needed to maintain the current patriarchy?
80
And to add one data point to the "who ends up worse off financially after divorce" discussion, I am considerably financially worse off after my divorce than my ex-husband is. We agreed to simply split our assets 50/50 and walk away - no alimony, none of that foolishness. Due to his job, which he got via an education I supported him through, he has more earning potential than I do.
81
Mx Wanna - A good and conscientious point. It ties in with those cultures that don't subtract any Man Points from the (perceived) dominant partner in an MM exchange.
82
Ms Ods & Co - I wonder if part of the possible difference is that men may focus more on the scorning one/cheating ex while women spread their vitriol or blame The Hussy. The posts about men setting out to ruin their exes remind me of an early Lifetime movie about cyber bullying.

The story began with three high school friends, perhaps best described as Queen Bee, Second Bee and Wanna Bee. Queen was confiding to Second and Wanna about a boy she liked. Second volunteered to discover whether he might reciprocate her interest, and to drop a hint that he should ask Queen out. Boy, of course, made it clear that he preferred Second, who declined him out of loyalty to Queen but had to report the bad news. Queen, unused to having her invitations declined, was shaken. Wanna jumped on the opportunity to convince Queen that Second had deliberately stolen Boy from her, which led to an escalating course of persecution consisting of two steps of retaliation and then one of retraction which really messed with Second's head for most of the movie until she got a grip and even caused their mothers' friendship to crack. I don't think there was more than minor disparagement of his taste hurled at Boy.
83
I think/ feel the Fetish fear of Black people for Whites, and vice versa is a red herring.
I was watching a Bob Marley dvd with one of my sons today, he loves Jimmy as well.
And I enjoyed watching the Black people, I see the difference in skin colour
and culture.. and I love it. Love Black music and dance. What beautiful dancers so many of them are.
I love White musicians too, and the latest dirty dance movie from those White boys, also includes Black dancers.
And American Blacks, many of them such powerful people. And beautiful.
84
@futurecatlady: I think our views on this are too far apart to have a meaningful discussion ... Your opinion is not uncommon

That's an odd thing to say, since I haven't actually expressed an opinion on the matter, just related a couple of anecdotes.

Which reminds me of another divorce story. My (soon to be) wife and I were friends with a lesbian couple who participated in our wedding. As the date was approaching, we were having dinner and the topic turned to prenuptial agreements. One half of the couple, who precisely fit the stereotype of a Smith graduate, became enraged with me for even considering it. Her partner, who'd previously been married to a man, defended me, saying she wished she'd had such an agreement, because her husband had irresponsibly run up a bunch of credit card debt while they were married, and she ended up having to pay half of it off when she split up with him.

Alimony is not gender based

Ok, here's an opinion - I think this statement is both true and false.
85
CMDWannabe @36, thanks for that video link, it is fabulous. Tomorrow night I'm going to lay out some lingerie on our bed and do the same with my husband. I'm pretty sure he'll love it.
86
@venn: but it does feel a little tame put up against revenge porn.

Who says there needs to be gender equality here?

It seems obvious to me that those who's brains have been marinaded in testosterone are, on average, going to respond to breakups (or any adversity, really) with more volatility than those who's brains haven't.
88
Ms Thinking - Then (I pay you the compliment of assuming other factors to balance each other out) you ought to have had the greater portion of the assets; I can only hope that the moral high ground compensates you. I have been actually similarly situated; when my fiance-to-be died, most of my pre-existing assets, such as they were, had been directed willingly towards his future. I was dazed for a long time and eventually decided against seeking recovery from his hateful relations (I spare the assembled company my forerunner to what would these days become #yesallstr8z) who'd have pushed me out of my own home if they could.

As for the violence question, I think it would be of a different sort. Unless one accepts Clintonian definitions which would count large teams of men going out and each killing off half the opposing side as (specifically, deliberately and only would be overstating it, but something on that spectrum) violence against women, much of the violence to maintain patriarchy has been M-on-M in an attempt to impose or ward off the dominance of a different would-be patriarch. It's hard to compare when we haven't seen or agreed upon how matriarchy would come about. My best guess, though an unconsidered one, is that to institute matriarchy there would have to be enough sorority in place to keep F-on-F violence at an absolute minimum. I don't know whether that would reduce the number of wars, as it might be seen as advantageous to the system to make the lower ranks of armies all-male and use war (by agreeing to revert to more primitive methods that would raise the body count while doing less structural damage) as a way of keeping the male proportion of the population low. Recalling how some women did not want the vote or the ERA because they took either as meaning that women would be drafted, I don't think, for instance, that, if men were stripped of voting rights, they'd be compensated by being allowed to opt out of the military.

As for personal violence, again my cosmic vibrations suggest that it would be less intense but more general. If I were making this a novel, my first attempt would probably be along the lines of its being permissible for any woman to discipline any (other woman's) man for perceived offences, patriarchy thriving in part on setting up a woman as one man's property.

Personally, I suspect I'd be about equally badly off. The potential rulers who make me the most nervous are the sincerely religious, hawkish patriarchs and the scientific determinist, anti-feminist matriarchs.

An excellent question, though I've become late on my morning routine.
89
Ophian @71: There is more baggage in white woman / black man relationships than there is in white man / black man relationships. Less than a century ago, a black man ran a serious risk of lynching if he had even consensual sex with a white woman. There's an inherent subversion which does not apply to SS pairings. Although a public SS relationship admittedly runs a similar risk of lynching ie gay-bashing, but that risk applies regardless of the races involved.

CMD @72: To elaborate, "forced feminisation" is a fetish in and of itself which is different from a cross-dressing kink or being trans*. Forced feminisation is submissive in nature. The man forced to dress as a woman gets off on it because he feels humiliated (another statement on the perceived value of masculinity versus femininity in our society). Images of forced feminisation are, I believe, what has led to the assumption that cross-dressing is by nature an act of submission. This is not necessarily so. I have known a number of transgender/transvestite dominatrixes. Many bio males view dressing as a woman as empowering, not demeaning; it lets them feel beautiful and powerful. The pantyboy video CMD shared, I did note, did not include the BDSM ingredients that are common to such scenes -- no spanking, bondage or butt toys. It was strictly a panty fetish. And they seemed to be having a great time.
90
SOS,

Much more needs to be said about sterility. Do your research. FetLife is a good resource, although you will find some people there who don't think sterility is a problem. Surely, anyone can drive without a seat belt perfectly safely—until crashing.

At the very least boil the sounds and store them on clean paper towels. Yes, the sterility of paper towels is surprisingly good. Do not store the sounds in the velvet zipper case they came in. That cannot be sterilized. Better yet, clean the sounds with Cavicide or DisCide Ultra. Have a friend in the tattoo business? Rent their autoclave.
Acquire BZK (benzalkonium chloride) wipes, Individual packets of Sterilube, and common hand sanitizer.
Wash your hands well using a fingernail brush. Wipe the penis and surrounding area with BZK. Wipe your hands and the unopened Sterilube packets with BZK. Only then do you touch a sound.
If you can acquire a 1cc syringe with a non-threaded Luer tip, remove the needle, fill it with Sterilube and pump that into the penis.
Open three more Sterilube packets, as you won't be able to later. Dip the end of the sound into a packet and squeeze the rest of the packet onto the sound.
If at any time your hands touch something not clean, use hand sanitizer.

Always support the penis so that the weight of the sound causes it to go in, not to bend the penis unexpectedly.

It is risky to go through the prostate but the sensation is incredible. Do much research before attempting that. Any sound that can make it two inches in can go all the way into the bladder.

He should drink cranberry juice well before, and after. This is the only thing I know of that causes urine to be more acidic than usual. This creates a less friendly environment for UTI bacteria. Remember that urine is a blood product, not a part of the digestive tract.

Is all of this necessary? Probably not if there is no tearing/blood. However, if there is a mishap you will really, really wish you had followed protocol.

Clean up the Sterilube with common table salt and water.
91
@69 seandr: Congrats on scoring the magic SL post number this week!
Wow--that's sad about your friend's divorce situation in Massachusetts.
Ironically, I'm living happily ever after post-divorce ( and no, I haven't
received alimony since 2003), but it has been my ex over the years who
has tried contacting me--even after remarrying twice. I haven't responded
to his Facebook friend requests. I feel contact is quite inappropriate and
unwise after an abusive relationship. He needs to focus instead on his current
wife and children he may have fathered with ex-wife #2 and current wife #3.
If my ex is trying to reach me after all these years and his relocation to another
state, I'm wondering if he's hoping that I could help him with his alimony and
child care payments. He'd be out of luck there----I'm just lucky to be able to
support myself, be who I am and be blessed with what I have.
92
@91: Yikes----I thought I had correctly indented and condensed my comment paragraph!
93
@22 Alison Cummins: Agreed. I am SO glad I never had kids with my ex-----children in the middle of an already toxic, abusive marriage would have been disastrous.
94
As for divorce-
Doesn't gave to be ugly. I know someone who ended his marriage in a civilized way. No lawyers involved, and both respected their verbal agreements.
Non-contentious communication as needed goes on to this day.
95
Mx Wanna - Sad that that's the exception rather than the rule.

*****

Ms Grizelda - I have often found the preview box unreliable. If this were the Tudors, you would be Anne of Cleves.
96
@95: Mr. Ven, I know that the Showtime series made everyone much, much better looking than they probably were (especially Henry Cavill as Charles Brandon, Duke of Suffolk), but considering that Henry divorced Anne of Cleaves primarily because she was much less attractice than he was led to believe, casting someone who looks like this seems like a serious wrongdoing, not unlike casting Nastasia Kinski as "Susie the Bear" in the film version of The Hotel New Hampshire (and having all the characters sympathetically agree with her when she decries her ugliness).

Still, I suppose as Henry VIII's wives' lots go, Anne of Cleaves had the best of it.
No offense meant to auntie grizelda; I'm sure you're far more attractive than Anne of Cleaves.
97
@96: For reference, this is what Nastassja Kinski (looks like I guessed at the spelling of her name wrong) looked like in The Hotel New Hampshire. The filmmakers tried to make us believe that Nastassja K with uncombed hair, circles under her eyes, and a more pronounced pout than usual was an ugly woman. And the best part is that all the characters pretended that it was so. That was some mighty fine acting. (sigh) Oh, Hollywood . . .
98
@95 vennominon: Eek--I can't think of a fate worse than ever being unfortunately married to Henry VIII---with the one exception of my mentally unhinged, sociopathic ex-spouse.
@96 nocutename: Thanks for sharing the photo links. I would like to think I'm more attractive than Anne of Cleaves (although I certainly was not my prettiest in junior high school). Luckily I, too, was divorced rather than guillotined, and fled while I still could. I was often left to feel a bit like Natasha Kinski's "Susie the Bear" growing up. At least the beach where I lived was a great "Calvin and Hobbes-like" escape from the awkwardness of public school.
99
@97 nocutename: When was The Hotel New Hampshire released--was it 1984? I'm wondering if the looks obsessed Hollywood producers / directors got the idea that dark-circle-eyed, pouty, unkempt women (re: Kinski in the "Susie" role) were supposed to be considered ugly from Ally Sheedy's portrayal of shy Allison Reynolds (pre her girl's bathroom makeup applying session with Molly Ringwald)) in The Breakfast Club? If I recall, both films came out in the '80's.
@98. Part II: It has helped having Volkswagens, music, and a number of cats in my life.
Thank heavens not all men are Henry VIII's or abusive.
100
Disagree with Dan on whether Skeptical should tell his wife about the photos he's already photoshopped... just freaking tell her. BTW, how do you know your wife doesn't read this column? If she does, you've already told her.
101
@auntie griz: I think that the men who run Hollywood don't ever want to cast a less than conventionally stunning young actress to play any role at all. So the most that can be done when the role is supposed to be a young woman who is genuinely unattractive is to take that beautiful woman they've hired, but some purple eyeshadow under her eyes, mess up her hair, and call her unattractive. Interestingly, both of these characters get some sort of makeover and are transformed by the power of either love or at least sexual interest. Because god forbid that Emilio Estevez as the high school jock ever have a girlfriend that isn't really conventionally pretty underneath the baggy goth clothes and pale and gloomy mien.
There is another movie, the 1991 Dogfight in which Lili Taylor plays an ugly girl who is revealed to be more attractive as River Phoenix starts to fall in love with her. Again, I think it strains the imagination to see Lili Taylor as not pretty. But over the course of the movie, all the director has to do is to take away the things they had done to to uglify her, to make us believe that she could be seen as a "dog."
102
Nocute @ 101

Not to mention Nicole Kidman as Virginia Woolf. Keep scrolling down
http://www.themakeupgallery.info/lookali…

Which apparently proved controversial to some academics.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/15/movies…
103
Ms Cute/Ms Grizelda - It is well established that I am as ignorant of female attractions as Mary Crawford was of the demands the hay harvest would make on the selection of carts she expected to be available to fetch her harp. It is just refreshing to see someone reveling so in her divorced state, which was the full intended extent of the comparison.
104
Mx Wanna - That's an interesting candidate for inclusion, though I'd put it on a separate list.

Now I'm half inclined to picture Sibyl Colefax (a society hostess who attempted to "take up" Mrs Woolf and other writers, and who seemed to revel in the slapdash style of teas in Bloomsbury as part of the aura of A Great Artist - the story of their acquaintance is given in the essay "Am I a Snob?") as something like Ms Kidman.
105
Ms Lava - Are you in shock? The replay of the match starts in two minutes.
106
Hi Venn; how was that? And that girl doesn't grunt like a pig when she hits a ball. I think everyone had their mouths open..
107
Paul Kantner, co-founder of Jefferson’s Airplane (as well as Starship) died couple of days ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Kantn…
Readers of this blog are likely to recall “Plastic Fantastic Lover,” which apparently may not be what we were thinking all those years…
http://www.songfacts.com/facts-jefferson…
108
BDF, Busy_quilting, sb53 rejoin others interested-
Not sure how much stuff I can impose here on others. If there’s a wheel there’s a yay cmd78014 yeah who.
Not a hookup nor a book club. Ideas, experiences, advice and such.
109
Ms Lava - Fitting that it ended on a missed volley - the story of the third set, with those two drop shots as well. And, for a match won mostly on movement, it was a treat to see the trophy presented by Evonne instead of Margaret.

Ms Williams didn't get struck by the moment the way Hr Federer did seven years ago, trying to tie Mr Sampras. Admirable class in defeat, too.

Ms Graf seems to be quite the good influence; first Ms Clijsters and now Ms Kerber.

This being the first time Ms Williams lost a three-set major final makes me think of Mr Woods' first loss in a major when he led entering the last round (the PGA to Y E Yang, who hasn't done a lot since beyond giving a fun imitation of the Open Championship starter Ivor Robson).